As a person who was standing in a yard 75' from where this happened when it happend, heard the crash, and saw the aftermath and subsequent antics from the perpetrators of this crime I need to tell both of you that you're way off base here. Those guys were travelling at high speeds through that alley (I'd guess 30-40mph) - shortly after closing time at the bars - and could have easily killed someone. They were both WASTED and belligerent. Ex, the police were not on scene immediately after this crash, it was a few minutes later that they arrived. The individuals in question were allegedly in the act of attempting to evade police. In all seriousness, I thanked the officers. They were courteous, polite and professional. They did what it is they are supposed to do - handled a public safety issue. I'm all for transparency in gov't, holding everyone accountable, and preventing abuses... but seriously, THIS is not the incident from which to tout those ideals.
I for one am sad that the Ghost Ranch is going through this difficult time, and sincerely hope that they find a way to reopen. While there were obvious, and perhaps not as obvious, problems there, I always felt welcomed and warmly received. The Ghost Ranch truly puts Steamboat on the map in terms of the Colorado and national music scene. One needs only to spend a few minutes with the piano in the "Green Room" - covered in signatures from famous and not-so-famous groups to know this. Some of my favorites among the many: Sam Bush. The Infamous Stringdusters. Greensky Bluegrass. Trampled By Turtles. With the closing of Ghost Ranch (hopefully temporarily - though I noticed their website has been gutted today), Steamboat has a void. We probably won't be seeing the Infamous Stringdusters in the other bars in town, though they WERE scheduled to come back to the GR in January (I did get to see them this past summer, but I had to drive to REDROCKS to do it). In response to some of those who have posted negative comments about the GR, I'd only say, no venue can be all things for all people. And though there is a perception that the Ghost Ranch had somehow 'lost' the community, I'd like to remind that in the community-surveyed "Best of the Boat" awards, the people of Steamboat voted the Ghost Ranch: Best Bar, Best Music Venue, Best Place to Dance; and it scored second in Best Late-Night Fare, and Best Bartender. Let's hope that the Ghost Ranch can resurrect itself in such as way as to continue to fill its role as the premier music venue in town.
"lovestoread" I couldn't agree more. It is sad, and it's a serious issue. However, I think it is dangerous to allow public institutions to exceed their mandate. This issue or another one, we trust school systems with our most precious cargo. Whether or not we agree with the principle's of the program, and regardless of its intentions, its content was subjective and parents weren't given a choice as to whether (or more importantly, "how") their child was going to be 'given the pitch'. As important as quality time with children is, as a society I believe that it would be irresponsible to allow the warm-and-fuzzy to cloud our judgement as to what challenges are appropriate for a school system to try to tackle, and what methods are acceptable for the them to employ in doing so.
Likewise am I (well agnostic anyway)... and as I indicated in my comments: call ME out on my less than ideal behaviors at will. I welcome it. We can all use reminders. Don't do it through my kid. And don't do it like THAT. Like I said - had this been a program where families talk about technology together and decide appropriate methods to use it, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. The school deciding what's right for my family without talking to me about it? That's an issue.
What’s next? To use a hypothetical- should we expect to see a contract coming home for “Vegetarian Week”? Sure, plenty of studies show that it’s probably healthier, better for the environment, and certainly more humane to go veggie- but when a public institution has an assembly about the subject; passes out ‘Meat is Murder’ buttons during school hours, sends my kid home from school with a contract for my family to eat Tofu all week and asks, “Daddy, why are you killing all the animals?” someone has to cry foul… preferably sooner than later. It’s an exaggeration, but the comparison holds true.
And really, that’s my point here. I, and a lot of other people I know, don’t want to go through this again on the next thing. Send information home, great. I’ll read it. Offer suggestions, wonderful – I might take them. Provide programs like “Hang Up and Hang Out” in an after-school setting, send a worksheet home to help facilitate my child and I having our own family discussion, never hear a peep out of me. Present untested pet projects and programs that affect my household to my 6 year-old instead of class time without my consent, comment, or prior notification? Nope. What were you thinking?
And please don’t misunderstand – we do have wonderful school systems here. I have been consistently impressed and adore my child’s teachers and other staff members I’ve met. I don’t hold them responsible for any of this. I have, and continue to solicit from them any and all information, ideas, suggestions or strategies for raising a happy, healthy, and successful child – however, for my kid, I insist that it’s my responsibility to decide which of those to implement and how. That’s MY job.
One more thing I’d like to remind- and I’m a little surprised to not have heard more upset about this in comments - someone decided to initiate review of the parameters of this program with your kids without you – and you weren’t told about it until it had already happened. The contract terms weren’t asking for your discussion, they were telling your children what to think. Someone decided to assign to all kids in the school the task of writing a letter to their parents giving reasons why you should do this program. Button or no button – your kid was told what the answer should be.
By the time you came into the picture, there wasn’t a good choice remaining other than to have a conversation with a 6 year old that maybe this program isn’t such a great idea. The issue is more than just the valid concern that a 6 year old might feel left out of a school activity, that they might not get some privilege that other students get… it’s that the school has determined the parameters and already ‘sold’ the kids on their merits. What say do you have left? You’re either the bad guy for saying ‘no’, the conformist heel for saying ‘yes’ just to keep the peace, or you drank the Kool-Aid (interestingly enough, mine felt that not giving buttons to the kids whose parents didn’t sign was ‘really unfair’ – smart kid that she is- thought the whole thing was a bad idea – FYI, we did sign – I fall into ‘conformist heel’ category, but I’m trying to atone here).
The button’s not the point (though it’s an example of a poorly thought-out plan). I expect a public school system to have the foresight to not put myself, or my child in that position at all.
I still hold that it’s not the school’s place to institute a program directly to children during regular school hours that regulates non-education-related home life behavior.
To me this is a primary issue, and it deserves a far more rigorous response than your suggested, “… note to a teacher requesting a button”. It’s part of why I was so surprised when I learned of this program. It makes me want to ask a lot of questions. What business do they have deciding what values are right for me and my family? Who regulates that? Who decides? What educational precedent exists that supports this sort of action? Has this program been tried before in other settings? How could they possibly present any potential home-life-related program format that would in-fact be right for all families whose children are being presented to?
Josh,
I appreciate your response, and for the most part, I agree with you that the school’s “intent” was not to disrupt normal adult responsibilities (the effect may be something else). I also agree that having candid conversations with our children about a whole host of issues, including technology usage, is vital to healthy family outcomes (and in my household we do this regularly). My objections are by no means intended to defend egregious use of cell phones, television, computers, or any of the myriad other distractions which are too often within reach these days. And no, a reminder that we can wait ten minutes to see our little ones off with a hug and a kiss before returning a phone call is not a problem for me – and I’m glad that you found meaning in the program.
My point here was to raise objections and serious concerns about the way the program was implemented as evidenced by the reward system (and thereby ‘punishment’ system)- which I think is blatantly flawed, and by the lack of parental input solicited for something that is so obviously a ‘home’ issue. I think the larger question though (which maybe you didn’t catch) – is this something schools should even be doing? But lets address your comments first.
If the aim of the program was to create family dialogue, why not have blank spaces on the contract whereby kids and parents can discuss and decide their own terms as to what is ‘appropriate’ for their households with regards to cell phone usage? That to me, is healthy discourse- and a strategy far more likely to have a longer lasting positive impact on familial habits.
Unfortunately the terms of the ‘experiment’ were dictated to us, and I can’t help but wonder if the criteria of the program may have been influenced more by the sound of the slogan than by best practice for family communication strategies. “Hang-Up and Hang-Out” doesn’t have an “unless…” afterward – which is why so many parents in town found themselves on the sharp end of the 6-7-8 year-old kid’s-complaint stick this week (regardless of whether they were answering a call from a long-distance relative, the babysitter with whom they are about to meet, or the President). The terms of the contract were yes or no (not a lot of room for discussion there) and besides – what 1st, 2nd, 3rd, grader understands the fine print of “try” to not use a cell phone for the upcoming week? The net result is, “Hmmn… I’ve got something to hold over mom and dad’s head.”
Jonathan Huge 1 year, 1 month ago on Steamboat man drives car into downtown building
Steamboat man drives car into downtown building
As a person who was standing in a yard 75' from where this happened when it happend, heard the crash, and saw the aftermath and subsequent antics from the perpetrators of this crime I need to tell both of you that you're way off base here. Those guys were travelling at high speeds through that alley (I'd guess 30-40mph) - shortly after closing time at the bars - and could have easily killed someone. They were both WASTED and belligerent. Ex, the police were not on scene immediately after this crash, it was a few minutes later that they arrived. The individuals in question were allegedly in the act of attempting to evade police. In all seriousness, I thanked the officers. They were courteous, polite and professional. They did what it is they are supposed to do - handled a public safety issue. I'm all for transparency in gov't, holding everyone accountable, and preventing abuses... but seriously, THIS is not the incident from which to tout those ideals.
Jonathan Huge 1 year, 6 months ago on Ghost Ranch Saloon in Steamboat closes down indefinitely
Ghost Ranch Saloon in Steamboat closes down indefinitely
I for one am sad that the Ghost Ranch is going through this difficult time, and sincerely hope that they find a way to reopen. While there were obvious, and perhaps not as obvious, problems there, I always felt welcomed and warmly received. The Ghost Ranch truly puts Steamboat on the map in terms of the Colorado and national music scene. One needs only to spend a few minutes with the piano in the "Green Room" - covered in signatures from famous and not-so-famous groups to know this. Some of my favorites among the many: Sam Bush. The Infamous Stringdusters. Greensky Bluegrass. Trampled By Turtles. With the closing of Ghost Ranch (hopefully temporarily - though I noticed their website has been gutted today), Steamboat has a void. We probably won't be seeing the Infamous Stringdusters in the other bars in town, though they WERE scheduled to come back to the GR in January (I did get to see them this past summer, but I had to drive to REDROCKS to do it). In response to some of those who have posted negative comments about the GR, I'd only say, no venue can be all things for all people. And though there is a perception that the Ghost Ranch had somehow 'lost' the community, I'd like to remind that in the community-surveyed "Best of the Boat" awards, the people of Steamboat voted the Ghost Ranch: Best Bar, Best Music Venue, Best Place to Dance; and it scored second in Best Late-Night Fare, and Best Bartender. Let's hope that the Ghost Ranch can resurrect itself in such as way as to continue to fill its role as the premier music venue in town.
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
"lovestoread" I couldn't agree more. It is sad, and it's a serious issue. However, I think it is dangerous to allow public institutions to exceed their mandate. This issue or another one, we trust school systems with our most precious cargo. Whether or not we agree with the principle's of the program, and regardless of its intentions, its content was subjective and parents weren't given a choice as to whether (or more importantly, "how") their child was going to be 'given the pitch'. As important as quality time with children is, as a society I believe that it would be irresponsible to allow the warm-and-fuzzy to cloud our judgement as to what challenges are appropriate for a school system to try to tackle, and what methods are acceptable for the them to employ in doing so.
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
I'll keep that in mind. :)
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Likewise am I (well agnostic anyway)... and as I indicated in my comments: call ME out on my less than ideal behaviors at will. I welcome it. We can all use reminders. Don't do it through my kid. And don't do it like THAT. Like I said - had this been a program where families talk about technology together and decide appropriate methods to use it, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. The school deciding what's right for my family without talking to me about it? That's an issue.
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
I think you hopped on the wrong side of the fence here "hebo"... especially if you're against the 'brainwash' part.
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Yes, we did.
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
What’s next? To use a hypothetical- should we expect to see a contract coming home for “Vegetarian Week”? Sure, plenty of studies show that it’s probably healthier, better for the environment, and certainly more humane to go veggie- but when a public institution has an assembly about the subject; passes out ‘Meat is Murder’ buttons during school hours, sends my kid home from school with a contract for my family to eat Tofu all week and asks, “Daddy, why are you killing all the animals?” someone has to cry foul… preferably sooner than later. It’s an exaggeration, but the comparison holds true.
And really, that’s my point here. I, and a lot of other people I know, don’t want to go through this again on the next thing. Send information home, great. I’ll read it. Offer suggestions, wonderful – I might take them. Provide programs like “Hang Up and Hang Out” in an after-school setting, send a worksheet home to help facilitate my child and I having our own family discussion, never hear a peep out of me. Present untested pet projects and programs that affect my household to my 6 year-old instead of class time without my consent, comment, or prior notification? Nope. What were you thinking?
And please don’t misunderstand – we do have wonderful school systems here. I have been consistently impressed and adore my child’s teachers and other staff members I’ve met. I don’t hold them responsible for any of this. I have, and continue to solicit from them any and all information, ideas, suggestions or strategies for raising a happy, healthy, and successful child – however, for my kid, I insist that it’s my responsibility to decide which of those to implement and how. That’s MY job.
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
One more thing I’d like to remind- and I’m a little surprised to not have heard more upset about this in comments - someone decided to initiate review of the parameters of this program with your kids without you – and you weren’t told about it until it had already happened. The contract terms weren’t asking for your discussion, they were telling your children what to think. Someone decided to assign to all kids in the school the task of writing a letter to their parents giving reasons why you should do this program. Button or no button – your kid was told what the answer should be.
By the time you came into the picture, there wasn’t a good choice remaining other than to have a conversation with a 6 year old that maybe this program isn’t such a great idea. The issue is more than just the valid concern that a 6 year old might feel left out of a school activity, that they might not get some privilege that other students get… it’s that the school has determined the parameters and already ‘sold’ the kids on their merits. What say do you have left? You’re either the bad guy for saying ‘no’, the conformist heel for saying ‘yes’ just to keep the peace, or you drank the Kool-Aid (interestingly enough, mine felt that not giving buttons to the kids whose parents didn’t sign was ‘really unfair’ – smart kid that she is- thought the whole thing was a bad idea – FYI, we did sign – I fall into ‘conformist heel’ category, but I’m trying to atone here).
The button’s not the point (though it’s an example of a poorly thought-out plan). I expect a public school system to have the foresight to not put myself, or my child in that position at all.
I still hold that it’s not the school’s place to institute a program directly to children during regular school hours that regulates non-education-related home life behavior.
To me this is a primary issue, and it deserves a far more rigorous response than your suggested, “… note to a teacher requesting a button”. It’s part of why I was so surprised when I learned of this program. It makes me want to ask a lot of questions. What business do they have deciding what values are right for me and my family? Who regulates that? Who decides? What educational precedent exists that supports this sort of action? Has this program been tried before in other settings? How could they possibly present any potential home-life-related program format that would in-fact be right for all families whose children are being presented to?
Jonathan Huge 2 years, 3 months ago on Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Jonathan Huge: Plan short-sighted
Josh, I appreciate your response, and for the most part, I agree with you that the school’s “intent” was not to disrupt normal adult responsibilities (the effect may be something else). I also agree that having candid conversations with our children about a whole host of issues, including technology usage, is vital to healthy family outcomes (and in my household we do this regularly). My objections are by no means intended to defend egregious use of cell phones, television, computers, or any of the myriad other distractions which are too often within reach these days. And no, a reminder that we can wait ten minutes to see our little ones off with a hug and a kiss before returning a phone call is not a problem for me – and I’m glad that you found meaning in the program.
My point here was to raise objections and serious concerns about the way the program was implemented as evidenced by the reward system (and thereby ‘punishment’ system)- which I think is blatantly flawed, and by the lack of parental input solicited for something that is so obviously a ‘home’ issue. I think the larger question though (which maybe you didn’t catch) – is this something schools should even be doing? But lets address your comments first.
If the aim of the program was to create family dialogue, why not have blank spaces on the contract whereby kids and parents can discuss and decide their own terms as to what is ‘appropriate’ for their households with regards to cell phone usage? That to me, is healthy discourse- and a strategy far more likely to have a longer lasting positive impact on familial habits.
Unfortunately the terms of the ‘experiment’ were dictated to us, and I can’t help but wonder if the criteria of the program may have been influenced more by the sound of the slogan than by best practice for family communication strategies. “Hang-Up and Hang-Out” doesn’t have an “unless…” afterward – which is why so many parents in town found themselves on the sharp end of the 6-7-8 year-old kid’s-complaint stick this week (regardless of whether they were answering a call from a long-distance relative, the babysitter with whom they are about to meet, or the President). The terms of the contract were yes or no (not a lot of room for discussion there) and besides – what 1st, 2nd, 3rd, grader understands the fine print of “try” to not use a cell phone for the upcoming week? The net result is, “Hmmn… I’ve got something to hold over mom and dad’s head.”
Cont'd...