We realize you aren't seeing the logic. This isn't a scenario of a typo or just messing up a couple of facts (like incorrectly naming a storm pattern). This is a situation where a party talks to two people and uses their story to state that a serious criminal activity has taken place. These allegations would include potential jail time, significant fines and potential felony charges.
The process we exist under in this country is innocent until proven guilty.
Let's take an example. Guinevere, let's say you have a company with 100 employees. You fire two of them. Within a year they come and talk to your competitor. These two employees say you murdered a couple of people. Your competitor calls the cops and asks if there is a criminal investigation going on. The cops say they don't comment on such things. Your competitor then assumes that there must be a criminal investigation into you being a murderer. They don't call anybody else. Your competitor then publishes a big story on the internet or wherever they can that you murderd a couple of people. Of course there is no one missing, no murder weapon and no real reason to think you were a murderer. But, that's ok....they print it anyway.
Is it your responsibility to turn over your daily log to show all of us where you've been every second of your life during the time in question? Guilty until proven innocent, right? It is all on your shoulders to convince us you didn't do this. Do you possibly think this news of your being a murderer might just somehow have a negative impact on your reputation and your business even though we all know it is false?
Just to add to the maliciousness and recklessnes on the part of the Local please look to the tags the Local placed on the story online. They include the following tags: dead fish, EPA, feature, poison, pollution, steamboat springs, The Pilot, Yampa River.
Many of you live to criticize the Pilot (yes, I've been critical of them at times as well) yet anyone with any sense of objectiveness has to see how slimy the Local has been in this instance.
I hope the Pilot fights this. I hope the real truth does come out. I'm more than willing to wager that this entire "story" by the Local is nothing but pure fiction and that they knew the whole story was a lie. Heck of a way to get some publicity.
The Pilot & Today immediately comes out and states that not only has there never been a criminal investigation on behalf of the EPA but also that the EPA has never even contacted them about this alleged issue.
For those of you criticizing the Pilot & Today, what would you do? You conduct your business in compliance with local, state and federal authorities. You know you’ve never even been contacted by the EPA about this and your (alleged) competitor recklessly and in complete fabrication states that there is an ongoing criminal investigation of your company. You would be livid. What would you do? They contacted their attorneys and some of you make them out to be the big bad bully that is going to crush the poor little guy. Again, what would you do?
One could easily propose that almost all of this “story” is a complete fabrication and a knowing fabrication. Libel anyone? The Local states that it tried to reach Anderson, Zopf, and Schlicht. I’d challenge any of you to call any of those three and see if the Local made any attempt to call them. I made the calls and know the answer. Sorry, but that’s a lie on the part of the Local. Next lie is stating there is a criminal investigation when there isn’t one. A complete lie. I’m sure with a little digging, it is a lie made while knowing the facts. I really do begin to wonder if there is anything in that “story” that is true. Someone should call the EPA and see if there really is a person by the name of Lance Ehrig that has been employed there. Kinda makes you wonder. I suppose the names of the two former employees are factual. I wonder if they intentionally spelled their names wrong as well....probably got those right. I suppose the evil looking photos of the labels are probably true...ominous, aren’t they?
Competition in business is good, but only when it is a good competition. The Local has seriously crossed the line here. If this was your company, you would want the truth to come out and you wouldn’t take this reckless behavior lying down. I hope the Local gets what’s coming to them, and the icing on the cake will be when Dr. Suess Enterprises really turns into a Grinch. Interesting how life imitates art, isn't it.
I’d assert that this is a big deal. Could you imagine that your competitor wrote an article in your trade publication/local paper that stated there was a criminal investigation of your company? And they put it on the front cover and they did it when the the most amount of people could potentially look at it? (and they used an unauthorized picture of a well known character to sensationalize it.....but, I digress into the Local’s criminal activity). Am I the only one wondering what this story had to do with Christmas...quite sensational, though. You would be livid, especially if it was not true.
For those of you that didn’t read the article, the Local stated, “There IS an ongoing criminal investigation into the Pilot’s chemical activities.” This isn’t ambiguous language. This is one company telling the world there their competitor is the subject of a criminal investigation. Again, imagine if this allegation was made about you or your company.
The premise of this entire allegation is so reckless and illogical that it is amazing anyone can even think it is anything but pure fabrication. One, when there is any type of complaint a person/company disposing of toxic chemicals in a manner that would impact a water supply, the EPA and the local authorities would come in and deal with it immediately. They didn’t just sorta look into it, they’d come in hard and heavy on anyone reasonably suspected of this type of criminal activity. In this case, allegedly a complaint was made in February 2010 to the EPA. I’m sorry but if there was any truth to this, the EPA wouldn’t be sitting on their hands if something were to be harming the public water supply. Yes, I realize all facets of government can be quite skillful at sitting on their hands, but sorry...not in this case. They go on to state that allegations were then made locally. Again, local authorities don’t take lightly to allegations of improper disposal of toxic chemicals into our water supply. Mike Zopf is a fine man and a professional. Not only is the Pilot & Today being called out, but so is Mike. You would all be livid if you were Mike and for good reason.
Village Inn is a "local"??? Are you kidding me? You are upset that a franchised restaurant couldn't cut it in town and an authentic local restaurant owned and operated by people that actually live here and gives so generously to our community is thriving in the space that the Village Inn voluntarily left behind? So we lose a crappy restaurant (well, everyone loves pie) that never sponsored anything in our community. I will say that I do feel for the 17 employees, but that hasn't ever been a local restaurant - no community heart and soul there.
Each day I continue to get a better understanding of why SB700 failed - because of absolute idiocy of many people spouting opinions on these boards (you brought up SB700 which has nothing to do with Village Inn to anyone with any sense of intelligence or logic).
Thank you so much for so clearly making my point. How many hours of public meetings have been held over the past two years about SB700? How many times did you bother to go to 10 minutes of those meetings and ask your questions?
But now....after an agreement has been made and agreed to by our elected political officials, so many that didn't spend one second as part of a very open process become vocal.
I have no problem with someone having a differing opinion based on the facts.
I have a big problem with a lack of morals, obstructionists and fear-based preying - especially when a very fair and open process existed for two years and those most active today spreading such untruths didn't bother to even be part of the process originally. That's disgusting.
I keep hearing the message of...."there's a better plan out there." Well, what is it????? Problem is that those spreading this message is that they don't have a better plan - they'll just say anything to not allow a well thought out plan come to fruition. They have nothing constructive to add - nothing.
And yes, using a wolf biting a patriot in an ad is fear - please recognize that.
Good for you attempt to discuss something constructive. You asked/wrote:
"So the argument of this article seems to be 'The affordable housing isn't affordable enough.' So shooting down the only viable plan for creating affordable housing on the table is going to fix that? All of the 'vote no' folks can talk about is 'we'll find another way'. Well how about you enlighten us on what that way is? All of the ways that have been explored before now haven't gotten us anywhere. And don't tell me infill because that way has been around the longest and its not exactly fixing our situation."
Bergie, you haven't received one constructive response. You've been torn down, ripped up, but not once during this ENTIRE campaign has anyone in the "vote no" group bothered to get to the heart of your questions. Instead they continue to instill fear in the hearts of voters (my favorite ad was the wolf-type animal allegedly eating a steamboat patriot). But, of course they won't admit to fear-based advertising.
The vast majority of those voting no have not produced anything constructive as to better ideas during this entire 2 year process - they've simply come out from under their rocks over the past few months and bad-mouthed anything and everything they can attack. It has simply been disgusting.
Yes, I know Steve Lewis will write that he has attended this and that and been engaged since the beginning - and you have (I'm not talking about you here, so breathe easy).
The vast majority of the rest of you have done nothing constructive, just simply been obstructionists. I'll happily call out Cindy Constatine because I specifically asked her earlier if she'd find any scenario in an annexation acceptable. Her answer - absolutely not. Disgusting and selfish.
VOTE YES on annexing some land into our city - where we haven't had one acre of land annexed under the WSSAP even though it was drafted by our community over 16 years ago.
I live in the city limits. My house was built some years ago. I have both city water and when I flush, it gets taken away as wastewater. Maybe you or someone else could help me understand how me, my neighbors and most likely you are able to have the water and wastewater service we've all become accustomed to.
I'll remind you what you typed only a few days ago, "I'll remind posters that a little respect in here goes a long way in the reception of your opinion." Amen. Thanks for the reminder, I can tell they were sincere words. I've heard of "selective hearing" but dear Steve, I think you are suffering from "selective reading."
Contrary to your assessment, my whole point is NOT that letsvoteno should oppose infill development. That isn't my point at all, Steve.
My point is that the opposition to SB700 for the reasons of water, transportation, and infrastructure really don't hold any weight when one considers the fact that our city has been dealing with and will continue to deal with the eventual build out of 3100 currently approved units. Somehow we manage that. Somehow we'll mange more than that.
My point all along is that SB700 (or any subsequent annexation) isn't the sole reason for issues of water, transportation, infrastructure, etc. With or without SB700, our community has these issues to deal with. We will deal with them in an ongoing effort, just as we always have. But what I'm currently reading is that all of a sudden with 2000 potential new units we have a giant water crisis looming because of SB700. That can't factually be true unless we have had a giant water crisis looming because we have 3100 approved units currently in the city. Why aren't and why haven't those fearful of water issues been discussing this previously? These 3100 units weren't just approved yesterday, they've been around for many years - certainly pre-SB700. Even in orbit I know that 3100 is greater than 2000, Steve. Water isn't the issue - fear is the issue.
But, when I read ads in the paper that say Gamble in Vegas, Not with our Future and vague ads about We Don't Have Water - I think it is fair to say those are clearly based on fear, not facts.
Thanks for the civil dialogue, Steve. And once again, Steve, I have zero financial interest in this development, but thanks for checking - again.
Steamboat briefs: Pilot & Today requests story retraction, paper removal
Guin & others,
We realize you aren't seeing the logic. This isn't a scenario of a typo or just messing up a couple of facts (like incorrectly naming a storm pattern). This is a situation where a party talks to two people and uses their story to state that a serious criminal activity has taken place. These allegations would include potential jail time, significant fines and potential felony charges.
The process we exist under in this country is innocent until proven guilty.
Let's take an example. Guinevere, let's say you have a company with 100 employees. You fire two of them. Within a year they come and talk to your competitor. These two employees say you murdered a couple of people. Your competitor calls the cops and asks if there is a criminal investigation going on. The cops say they don't comment on such things. Your competitor then assumes that there must be a criminal investigation into you being a murderer. They don't call anybody else. Your competitor then publishes a big story on the internet or wherever they can that you murderd a couple of people. Of course there is no one missing, no murder weapon and no real reason to think you were a murderer. But, that's ok....they print it anyway.
Is it your responsibility to turn over your daily log to show all of us where you've been every second of your life during the time in question? Guilty until proven innocent, right? It is all on your shoulders to convince us you didn't do this. Do you possibly think this news of your being a murderer might just somehow have a negative impact on your reputation and your business even though we all know it is false?
Just to add to the maliciousness and recklessnes on the part of the Local please look to the tags the Local placed on the story online. They include the following tags: dead fish, EPA, feature, poison, pollution, steamboat springs, The Pilot, Yampa River.
Many of you live to criticize the Pilot (yes, I've been critical of them at times as well) yet anyone with any sense of objectiveness has to see how slimy the Local has been in this instance.
I hope the Pilot fights this. I hope the real truth does come out. I'm more than willing to wager that this entire "story" by the Local is nothing but pure fiction and that they knew the whole story was a lie. Heck of a way to get some publicity.
December 21, 2010 at 6:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamboat briefs: Pilot & Today requests story retraction, paper removal
Part 2 of 2
The Pilot & Today immediately comes out and states that not only has there never been a criminal investigation on behalf of the EPA but also that the EPA has never even contacted them about this alleged issue.
For those of you criticizing the Pilot & Today, what would you do? You conduct your business in compliance with local, state and federal authorities. You know you’ve never even been contacted by the EPA about this and your (alleged) competitor recklessly and in complete fabrication states that there is an ongoing criminal investigation of your company. You would be livid. What would you do? They contacted their attorneys and some of you make them out to be the big bad bully that is going to crush the poor little guy. Again, what would you do?
One could easily propose that almost all of this “story” is a complete fabrication and a knowing fabrication. Libel anyone? The Local states that it tried to reach Anderson, Zopf, and Schlicht. I’d challenge any of you to call any of those three and see if the Local made any attempt to call them. I made the calls and know the answer. Sorry, but that’s a lie on the part of the Local. Next lie is stating there is a criminal investigation when there isn’t one. A complete lie. I’m sure with a little digging, it is a lie made while knowing the facts. I really do begin to wonder if there is anything in that “story” that is true. Someone should call the EPA and see if there really is a person by the name of Lance Ehrig that has been employed there. Kinda makes you wonder. I suppose the names of the two former employees are factual. I wonder if they intentionally spelled their names wrong as well....probably got those right. I suppose the evil looking photos of the labels are probably true...ominous, aren’t they?
Competition in business is good, but only when it is a good competition. The Local has seriously crossed the line here. If this was your company, you would want the truth to come out and you wouldn’t take this reckless behavior lying down. I hope the Local gets what’s coming to them, and the icing on the cake will be when Dr. Suess Enterprises really turns into a Grinch. Interesting how life imitates art, isn't it.
December 19, 2010 at 7:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamboat briefs: Pilot & Today requests story retraction, paper removal
Part 1 of 2
Interesting discussion.
I’d assert that this is a big deal. Could you imagine that your competitor wrote an article in your trade publication/local paper that stated there was a criminal investigation of your company? And they put it on the front cover and they did it when the the most amount of people could potentially look at it? (and they used an unauthorized picture of a well known character to sensationalize it.....but, I digress into the Local’s criminal activity). Am I the only one wondering what this story had to do with Christmas...quite sensational, though. You would be livid, especially if it was not true.
For those of you that didn’t read the article, the Local stated, “There IS an ongoing criminal investigation into the Pilot’s chemical activities.” This isn’t ambiguous language. This is one company telling the world there their competitor is the subject of a criminal investigation. Again, imagine if this allegation was made about you or your company.
The premise of this entire allegation is so reckless and illogical that it is amazing anyone can even think it is anything but pure fabrication. One, when there is any type of complaint a person/company disposing of toxic chemicals in a manner that would impact a water supply, the EPA and the local authorities would come in and deal with it immediately. They didn’t just sorta look into it, they’d come in hard and heavy on anyone reasonably suspected of this type of criminal activity. In this case, allegedly a complaint was made in February 2010 to the EPA. I’m sorry but if there was any truth to this, the EPA wouldn’t be sitting on their hands if something were to be harming the public water supply. Yes, I realize all facets of government can be quite skillful at sitting on their hands, but sorry...not in this case. They go on to state that allegations were then made locally. Again, local authorities don’t take lightly to allegations of improper disposal of toxic chemicals into our water supply. Mike Zopf is a fine man and a professional. Not only is the Pilot & Today being called out, but so is Mike. You would all be livid if you were Mike and for good reason.
December 19, 2010 at 7:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Under Armour founding member shifts career to Sweetwood Cattle
Ryan is a class act. He is a welcome addition to our community. His steaks are fantastic as well!
May 23, 2010 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Village Inn in Steamboat closing this week
Village Inn is a "local"??? Are you kidding me? You are upset that a franchised restaurant couldn't cut it in town and an authentic local restaurant owned and operated by people that actually live here and gives so generously to our community is thriving in the space that the Village Inn voluntarily left behind? So we lose a crappy restaurant (well, everyone loves pie) that never sponsored anything in our community. I will say that I do feel for the 17 employees, but that hasn't ever been a local restaurant - no community heart and soul there.
Each day I continue to get a better understanding of why SB700 failed - because of absolute idiocy of many people spouting opinions on these boards (you brought up SB700 which has nothing to do with Village Inn to anyone with any sense of intelligence or logic).
April 12, 2010 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dennis Howard: Vote ‘no’ on 700
jk,
Thank you so much for so clearly making my point. How many hours of public meetings have been held over the past two years about SB700? How many times did you bother to go to 10 minutes of those meetings and ask your questions?
But now....after an agreement has been made and agreed to by our elected political officials, so many that didn't spend one second as part of a very open process become vocal.
I have no problem with someone having a differing opinion based on the facts.
I have a big problem with a lack of morals, obstructionists and fear-based preying - especially when a very fair and open process existed for two years and those most active today spreading such untruths didn't bother to even be part of the process originally. That's disgusting.
I keep hearing the message of...."there's a better plan out there." Well, what is it????? Problem is that those spreading this message is that they don't have a better plan - they'll just say anything to not allow a well thought out plan come to fruition. They have nothing constructive to add - nothing.
And yes, using a wolf biting a patriot in an ad is fear - please recognize that.
March 8, 2010 at 8:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dennis Howard: Vote ‘no’ on 700
Bergie,
Good for you attempt to discuss something constructive. You asked/wrote:
"So the argument of this article seems to be 'The affordable housing isn't affordable enough.' So shooting down the only viable plan for creating affordable housing on the table is going to fix that? All of the 'vote no' folks can talk about is 'we'll find another way'. Well how about you enlighten us on what that way is? All of the ways that have been explored before now haven't gotten us anywhere. And don't tell me infill because that way has been around the longest and its not exactly fixing our situation."
Bergie, you haven't received one constructive response. You've been torn down, ripped up, but not once during this ENTIRE campaign has anyone in the "vote no" group bothered to get to the heart of your questions. Instead they continue to instill fear in the hearts of voters (my favorite ad was the wolf-type animal allegedly eating a steamboat patriot). But, of course they won't admit to fear-based advertising.
The vast majority of those voting no have not produced anything constructive as to better ideas during this entire 2 year process - they've simply come out from under their rocks over the past few months and bad-mouthed anything and everything they can attack. It has simply been disgusting.
Yes, I know Steve Lewis will write that he has attended this and that and been engaged since the beginning - and you have (I'm not talking about you here, so breathe easy).
The vast majority of the rest of you have done nothing constructive, just simply been obstructionists. I'll happily call out Cindy Constatine because I specifically asked her earlier if she'd find any scenario in an annexation acceptable. Her answer - absolutely not. Disgusting and selfish.
VOTE YES on annexing some land into our city - where we haven't had one acre of land annexed under the WSSAP even though it was drafted by our community over 16 years ago.
March 8, 2010 at 6:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamboat 700 traffic debate a 2-way street
I'll ask a simpler question. Who paid for my (and your) water and my (and your) wastewater?
February 9, 2010 at 5:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamboat 700 traffic debate a 2-way street
Pitpoodle,
I live in the city limits. My house was built some years ago. I have both city water and when I flush, it gets taken away as wastewater. Maybe you or someone else could help me understand how me, my neighbors and most likely you are able to have the water and wastewater service we've all become accustomed to.
Thanks.
February 9, 2010 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamboat 700 traffic debate a 2-way street
Steve,
I'll remind you what you typed only a few days ago, "I'll remind posters that a little respect in here goes a long way in the reception of your opinion." Amen. Thanks for the reminder, I can tell they were sincere words. I've heard of "selective hearing" but dear Steve, I think you are suffering from "selective reading."
Contrary to your assessment, my whole point is NOT that letsvoteno should oppose infill development. That isn't my point at all, Steve.
My point is that the opposition to SB700 for the reasons of water, transportation, and infrastructure really don't hold any weight when one considers the fact that our city has been dealing with and will continue to deal with the eventual build out of 3100 currently approved units. Somehow we manage that. Somehow we'll mange more than that.
My point all along is that SB700 (or any subsequent annexation) isn't the sole reason for issues of water, transportation, infrastructure, etc. With or without SB700, our community has these issues to deal with. We will deal with them in an ongoing effort, just as we always have. But what I'm currently reading is that all of a sudden with 2000 potential new units we have a giant water crisis looming because of SB700. That can't factually be true unless we have had a giant water crisis looming because we have 3100 approved units currently in the city. Why aren't and why haven't those fearful of water issues been discussing this previously? These 3100 units weren't just approved yesterday, they've been around for many years - certainly pre-SB700. Even in orbit I know that 3100 is greater than 2000, Steve. Water isn't the issue - fear is the issue.
But, when I read ads in the paper that say Gamble in Vegas, Not with our Future and vague ads about We Don't Have Water - I think it is fair to say those are clearly based on fear, not facts.
Thanks for the civil dialogue, Steve. And once again, Steve, I have zero financial interest in this development, but thanks for checking - again.
February 8, 2010 at 8:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )