Keep voting to give your hard earned money to the federal government, state government, county government, city government, school board, fire protection district, library district and any thing else you can think of. I just wish you would quit voting to give my money away.
Don't you get it? If we don't have people coming to Steamboat Springs, you won't have money. Unless you are in the coal or gas and oil industries, you are just as dependent on visitors coming to Steamboat as are those who directly benefit. We would not need as many teachers, doctors, plumbers, landscapers (name a profession) if we did not have the tourist industry in Steamboat Springs. We would not have the amenities we enjoy (bike paths, restaurants, music venues, ski mountain, golf courses, (name an amenity recently built by or within the City) that would exist if it weren't for the tourist dollar. We all benefit. We should all pay to be sure that the lifestyle we enjoy continues.
Tracy,
With all due respect for the great job you do downtown I don't think you "get It". The airline support fund is not projected to be depleted until 2014 according to the recent Letter from Bill Moser. We have time to get the details right without ramming through 2B. There is not accountability nor a community representative for this "taxpayer bailout". Council never asked the crucial questions before they allowed this to be placed on the ballot. JOBS WILL NOT BE LOST IF 2B FAILS. As the friendly community we are, we already provide our part in keeping guests coming to Steamboat. You know me as an employee downtown and I am always showing guests the sites on maps, calling to make restaurant resv. for customers, etc. and I do it proudly because I love the community. If jobs are lost it is because we are not keeping up with the marketing necessary to keep our mountain competitive in the ski biz. Let's get this funding process correct while we have time!!! VOTE NO ON 2B.
Well said Tracy. The Local Marketing District was established to administer this program and the additional funding will fold into this process that is efficient and accountable to anyone that bothers looking into it. There are clearly jobs at stake unless you think visitors magically appear in Steamboat. We are a resort based economy and that part of the economy is critical to all other parts.
The bottom line is: Taxpayer $ will be used to subsidize a private corporation that makes a hefty profit from nearly every person who flies into SBS. Don't think that is right.
The "New Hot Steamboat Deals" ad here kind of sums up the mindset of the consumer today. If our lift ticket prices are the highest nationally (with no sales tax being collected locally, if I am not mistaken) then that speaks a lot to the whole conundrum. Steamboats historic consumer has been the middle class family.
Many typically drive and do not fly for their ski week. They are looking for the lowest cost for their weeks vacation. Yes the "high end" consumer that every area wants might need the ability to fly when they want no restrictions - thus the need for seats at all hours.
It seems to me as such a large percentage of the skiers who come here do not fly into Hayden, looking into how to grow that consumer base probably is needed. Though I suppose the building binge that has left the ski area with a glut of condo's requires the ability of those potential buyers to fly here whenever they want.
Who knows, to many variables yet the marquee one - lift ticket price is one we can claim to hold one of the highest prices of if not the highest price around. Seems to me that marquee should be changed in order to help market the resort, as "the deal" is what people are after - not the guarantee that they will have a seat whenever they want it.
The airlines are in business to make a profit for themselves. If they lose money flying to HDN they won't fly there. They have to sell a certain number of seats to cover the costs of the flight. Eliminating money-losing flights is a no-brainer for them. They don't care about Steamboat.
Our winter guests (customers) go skiing to have as much fun as they can. If they have to choose between a direct flight or DIA plus a 4-hour ordeal by shuttle or rent-a-car...isn't this a no-brainer too? If ti's hard to get here, they'll go somewhere else. They don't care about Steamboat either.
The only players who care about Steamboat are its citizens. If you make a living here, or if you enjoy all the amenities we have here, you know we need tourists. If the airlines pull the plug, the tourists will pull the plug.
What would Steamboat be like if it hadn't degenerated into a liberal tax-and-spend Mini-Boulder? What if the past leaders of Steamboat had dedicated themselves to minimal taxes and regulation? What if the voters of Steamboat had voted down every tax proposed? What would Steamboat be like? Craig.
That is becoming less and less true. If you've been here long enough then you can remember how SB was virtually shut down this time of year because there were no tourists. Well, things are not so quiet and we still have a minimal number of tourists.
Well, we now have a lot of LNBs and location neutral workers. Chamber and Ski corps did nothing to help that.
"If the airlines pull the plug, the tourists will pull the plug."
No, airlines can profitably bring in 80,000 seats or so. So airlines will not pull the plug, they will just not be paid to bring in extra seats that are not profitable because too many are empty.
Also, being remote would mean less crowded which becomes its own draw (doesn't the #1 ski area according to Ski Magazine limit ticket sales?)
Look at their own figures. Over the past two years we have had number of seats available drop by 40%. That is quite close to the number promised to be added if the tax passes. So SB was wiped out, right? Well, number of passengers to SB dropped 14,000. And obviously not all were tourists. And yet city sales tax revenues has increased the past year.
How can that be? If you believe those selling the program then losing those seats should have wiped SB off of the planet this past year.
The people pushing this tax have consistently made claims that even their own numbers contradict.
I don't see a need to raise taxes to send more public funds down a corporate money pit.
At last Thursday's election forum the proponents of 2B were asked to hold an open public forum where all of the public's questions would be answered with no limit on the number of questions. It hasn't happened becuase the proponents know that this proposal could not stand up to public scrutiny. Economic misinformation is being purveyed. It is a taxpayer bailout pure and simple and an attempted boondoggle of the Steamboat Taxpayer.
I am not allowed to vote since I live in the county... but will have to pay this tax unless I choose to live elsewhere.
The entire county should be asked to vote on this issue since it affects all of us. We are voiceless in a matter which will hit all of us in the pocketbook.
I say vote NO for now, then get it on a county-wide ballot.
Tracey Barnett. I get it that I am being taxed to death. My 1999 Routt county property taxes were $1093.32. My 2010 Routt county taxes were 2119.16. That is a 93% increase in 11 years. My income did not increase 93%. Did yours? Do you know what your 1999 property taxes were? Taxes are a BLACKHOLE that is sucking the life out of this country. Maybe if people realized what their tax load is they would quit voting for new and increased taxes that are all for GOOD CAUSES. Sure we need a new library, sure we need to protect Emerald Mountain, sure we need this and that. When does it end? Do you get that?
sedgemo,
Well, then move from the county to the city of SS so you can vote in SS elections.
Just as Hayden could approve big box retailers while SB would have no voice in demanding that Hayden agree to SB's zoning.
And it is simply false that this is a yes or no on tourism. This is about providing tax payer funding for some number of additional seats so that some number of additional tourists can fly in.
Today at City Market having to spend time looking for a parking spot during what is supposed to be when there are few tourists here, it seems indisputable to me that the economy is changing from being so heavily tourism based. And note how schools reported an unexpected increase in the number of students without any matching increase in local jobs. So something is going on that obviously has nothing to do with the ski area or the Chamber.
Scott, with all due respect, I can't afford to live in town, but have to buy groceries etc. there and believe in shopping locally to support my neighbors.
I understand about local zoning, too, but this tax is going to affect EVERYONE, including quite a few like myself who call Steamboat home but don't live within the city boundaries.
Per your big box example I don't have to shop in Hayden if they allowed BB stores, but the airline tax comes out of my pocket even if I have no use for the airport ... I haven't used the airport, nor had any friends/relatives do so.
I understand about tourist$$$ using it, my point is taxation without representation.
sedgemo,
My comment was not to be taken as a serious suggestion.
My Hayden example was not suggesting that you should shop at some future Hayden big box, but that cities have no legal obligations to care about how their decisions affect those outside of their city limits. So Hayden is free to add big box even if that messes with SB's plans. And SB votes on taxes imposed those that shop in SB even if those shoppers don't live in SB and could be tourists from other states or countries.
skicorp policy on their website, RE: season pass holders
- for season pass holders, friends and family day lift prices are now $59 (formerly $50)
- 2011/12 season pass holders are not entitled to free gondie access for summer of 2012, ONLY 2012/13 pass holders will obtain free summer gondie access for summer '12.
makes one really want to bailout the principals of Fortress/Intrawest by voting yes on 2B, no?
Comments
jerry carlton 1 year, 7 months ago
Keep voting to give your hard earned money to the federal government, state government, county government, city government, school board, fire protection district, library district and any thing else you can think of. I just wish you would quit voting to give my money away.
Tracy Barnett 1 year, 7 months ago
Don't you get it? If we don't have people coming to Steamboat Springs, you won't have money. Unless you are in the coal or gas and oil industries, you are just as dependent on visitors coming to Steamboat as are those who directly benefit. We would not need as many teachers, doctors, plumbers, landscapers (name a profession) if we did not have the tourist industry in Steamboat Springs. We would not have the amenities we enjoy (bike paths, restaurants, music venues, ski mountain, golf courses, (name an amenity recently built by or within the City) that would exist if it weren't for the tourist dollar. We all benefit. We should all pay to be sure that the lifestyle we enjoy continues.
cindy constantine 1 year, 7 months ago
Tracy, With all due respect for the great job you do downtown I don't think you "get It". The airline support fund is not projected to be depleted until 2014 according to the recent Letter from Bill Moser. We have time to get the details right without ramming through 2B. There is not accountability nor a community representative for this "taxpayer bailout". Council never asked the crucial questions before they allowed this to be placed on the ballot. JOBS WILL NOT BE LOST IF 2B FAILS. As the friendly community we are, we already provide our part in keeping guests coming to Steamboat. You know me as an employee downtown and I am always showing guests the sites on maps, calling to make restaurant resv. for customers, etc. and I do it proudly because I love the community. If jobs are lost it is because we are not keeping up with the marketing necessary to keep our mountain competitive in the ski biz. Let's get this funding process correct while we have time!!! VOTE NO ON 2B.
steamboatsprings 1 year, 7 months ago
Well said Tracy. The Local Marketing District was established to administer this program and the additional funding will fold into this process that is efficient and accountable to anyone that bothers looking into it. There are clearly jobs at stake unless you think visitors magically appear in Steamboat. We are a resort based economy and that part of the economy is critical to all other parts.
pitpoodle 1 year, 7 months ago
The bottom line is: Taxpayer $ will be used to subsidize a private corporation that makes a hefty profit from nearly every person who flies into SBS. Don't think that is right.
ybul 1 year, 7 months ago
The "New Hot Steamboat Deals" ad here kind of sums up the mindset of the consumer today. If our lift ticket prices are the highest nationally (with no sales tax being collected locally, if I am not mistaken) then that speaks a lot to the whole conundrum. Steamboats historic consumer has been the middle class family.
Many typically drive and do not fly for their ski week. They are looking for the lowest cost for their weeks vacation. Yes the "high end" consumer that every area wants might need the ability to fly when they want no restrictions - thus the need for seats at all hours.
It seems to me as such a large percentage of the skiers who come here do not fly into Hayden, looking into how to grow that consumer base probably is needed. Though I suppose the building binge that has left the ski area with a glut of condo's requires the ability of those potential buyers to fly here whenever they want.
Who knows, to many variables yet the marquee one - lift ticket price is one we can claim to hold one of the highest prices of if not the highest price around. Seems to me that marquee should be changed in order to help market the resort, as "the deal" is what people are after - not the guarantee that they will have a seat whenever they want it.
shawant 1 year, 7 months ago
The airlines are in business to make a profit for themselves. If they lose money flying to HDN they won't fly there. They have to sell a certain number of seats to cover the costs of the flight. Eliminating money-losing flights is a no-brainer for them. They don't care about Steamboat.
Our winter guests (customers) go skiing to have as much fun as they can. If they have to choose between a direct flight or DIA plus a 4-hour ordeal by shuttle or rent-a-car...isn't this a no-brainer too? If ti's hard to get here, they'll go somewhere else. They don't care about Steamboat either.
The only players who care about Steamboat are its citizens. If you make a living here, or if you enjoy all the amenities we have here, you know we need tourists. If the airlines pull the plug, the tourists will pull the plug.
What would Steamboat be like if it hadn't degenerated into a liberal tax-and-spend Mini-Boulder? What if the past leaders of Steamboat had dedicated themselves to minimal taxes and regulation? What if the voters of Steamboat had voted down every tax proposed? What would Steamboat be like? Craig.
Scott Wedel 1 year, 7 months ago
"you know we need tourists"
That is becoming less and less true. If you've been here long enough then you can remember how SB was virtually shut down this time of year because there were no tourists. Well, things are not so quiet and we still have a minimal number of tourists.
Well, we now have a lot of LNBs and location neutral workers. Chamber and Ski corps did nothing to help that.
"If the airlines pull the plug, the tourists will pull the plug."
No, airlines can profitably bring in 80,000 seats or so. So airlines will not pull the plug, they will just not be paid to bring in extra seats that are not profitable because too many are empty.
Also, being remote would mean less crowded which becomes its own draw (doesn't the #1 ski area according to Ski Magazine limit ticket sales?)
Look at their own figures. Over the past two years we have had number of seats available drop by 40%. That is quite close to the number promised to be added if the tax passes. So SB was wiped out, right? Well, number of passengers to SB dropped 14,000. And obviously not all were tourists. And yet city sales tax revenues has increased the past year.
How can that be? If you believe those selling the program then losing those seats should have wiped SB off of the planet this past year.
The people pushing this tax have consistently made claims that even their own numbers contradict.
I don't see a need to raise taxes to send more public funds down a corporate money pit.
Ed Miklus 1 year, 7 months ago
At last Thursday's election forum the proponents of 2B were asked to hold an open public forum where all of the public's questions would be answered with no limit on the number of questions. It hasn't happened becuase the proponents know that this proposal could not stand up to public scrutiny. Economic misinformation is being purveyed. It is a taxpayer bailout pure and simple and an attempted boondoggle of the Steamboat Taxpayer.
sedgemo 1 year, 7 months ago
I am not allowed to vote since I live in the county... but will have to pay this tax unless I choose to live elsewhere.
The entire county should be asked to vote on this issue since it affects all of us. We are voiceless in a matter which will hit all of us in the pocketbook.
I say vote NO for now, then get it on a county-wide ballot.
jerry carlton 1 year, 7 months ago
Tracey Barnett. I get it that I am being taxed to death. My 1999 Routt county property taxes were $1093.32. My 2010 Routt county taxes were 2119.16. That is a 93% increase in 11 years. My income did not increase 93%. Did yours? Do you know what your 1999 property taxes were? Taxes are a BLACKHOLE that is sucking the life out of this country. Maybe if people realized what their tax load is they would quit voting for new and increased taxes that are all for GOOD CAUSES. Sure we need a new library, sure we need to protect Emerald Mountain, sure we need this and that. When does it end? Do you get that?
Scott Wedel 1 year, 7 months ago
sedgemo, Well, then move from the county to the city of SS so you can vote in SS elections.
Just as Hayden could approve big box retailers while SB would have no voice in demanding that Hayden agree to SB's zoning.
And it is simply false that this is a yes or no on tourism. This is about providing tax payer funding for some number of additional seats so that some number of additional tourists can fly in.
Today at City Market having to spend time looking for a parking spot during what is supposed to be when there are few tourists here, it seems indisputable to me that the economy is changing from being so heavily tourism based. And note how schools reported an unexpected increase in the number of students without any matching increase in local jobs. So something is going on that obviously has nothing to do with the ski area or the Chamber.
sedgemo 1 year, 7 months ago
Scott, with all due respect, I can't afford to live in town, but have to buy groceries etc. there and believe in shopping locally to support my neighbors.
I understand about local zoning, too, but this tax is going to affect EVERYONE, including quite a few like myself who call Steamboat home but don't live within the city boundaries.
Per your big box example I don't have to shop in Hayden if they allowed BB stores, but the airline tax comes out of my pocket even if I have no use for the airport ... I haven't used the airport, nor had any friends/relatives do so.
I understand about tourist$$$ using it, my point is taxation without representation.
Scott Wedel 1 year, 7 months ago
sedgemo, My comment was not to be taken as a serious suggestion.
My Hayden example was not suggesting that you should shop at some future Hayden big box, but that cities have no legal obligations to care about how their decisions affect those outside of their city limits. So Hayden is free to add big box even if that messes with SB's plans. And SB votes on taxes imposed those that shop in SB even if those shoppers don't live in SB and could be tourists from other states or countries.
mtroach 1 year, 7 months ago
Face it Sedgemo you are a tourist in steamboat if you don't live inside city limits.
jerry carlton 1 year, 6 months ago
Tracy where are you? I am awaiting your response. I thought you wanted to debate.
dave mcirvin 1 year, 6 months ago
skicorp policy on their website, RE: season pass holders - for season pass holders, friends and family day lift prices are now $59 (formerly $50) - 2011/12 season pass holders are not entitled to free gondie access for summer of 2012, ONLY 2012/13 pass holders will obtain free summer gondie access for summer '12.
makes one really want to bailout the principals of Fortress/Intrawest by voting yes on 2B, no?
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