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housepoor (anonymous) says...

Are our lumber yards locally owned? I know BMC is not, not sure about alpine.
I want a home depot even in Hayden or Craig would be acceptable.

March 18, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

steamboatsprings (anonymous) says...

Placed discretely and to appropriate design standards Big Boxes could provide significantly increased convenience for locals along with the resulting increases in tax collections that we need to improve local infrastructure.

March 16, 2008 at 11:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

another_local (anonymous) says...

I think we have plenty of stores with clothing at moderate prices. How about getting some that have nice stuff!

March 18, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

paststudent (anonymous) says...

I am extremely hesitant to support big boxes here. Why not find a way to get real local support of family owned businesses with having things locals need within budget? How badly do we need clothing stores that are affordable and practical? This has been a problem for a very long time. Why is it so hard to come up with a solution for something like this without getting big boxes involved? Please, if anyone posts an answer for this, I'd appreciate it. I honestly do not know the reason.

March 18, 2008 at 2:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hubiem (anonymous) says...

bmc isn't even here anymore. alpine is at least partially employee owned. i think that with a name like steamboat lumber it is locally owned. i would hate to see home depot put our local guys out of business.

March 18, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hubiem (anonymous) says...

just because you have a poll and people vote, doesn't make the final results true. if you think big box businesses are good for steamboat residents, then you are wrong. let's keep the small unique businesses that you can only find here in steamboat. don't let big boxes run the small guys out of town. where i grew up there are way too many deserted downtown areas with wal-mart, target, and home depot sitting in huge warehouse size buildings on the outskirts of town. also too many deserted wal-mart buildings where they decided to upgrade to a super wal-mart and abandoned a five year old building. then after super wal-mart comes there are a bunch more abandoned grocery store buildings where wal-mart put the other grocery stores out of business.

i've been thinking about the title of this poll. i think it should be titled "do you want big box businesses in steamboat?" because that is how people are voting. people aren't voting because big box businesses are good or bad for the steamboat economy. they aren't voting because big box businesses are good or bad for the residents. if they are voting yes, then they are definitely not thinking about what is good for the residents or the economy. they are voting yes because they want steamboat to look like every other town in the united states, or they are voting no to keep steamboat unique.

big box businesses generally aren't good for the people of small towns. the flood the market with cheap, low quality, foreign made goods. they also work toward the homogenization of our society. so while we are homogenizing steamboat let's put an applebee's where the three peaks grill is. lets put in outback steakhouse at instead of the ore house. we've already got pizza hut and domino's but we sure could use a papa john's downtown where brooklyn's is.

my point is that the more of these businesses we bring to steamboat, the fewer local businesses there will be. pretty soon steamboat has nothing unique to offer.

March 18, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LookoutJoe (anonymous) says...

Did anyone come to Steamboat for "Big Box Retailers?" How about that out of the way place where you don't have to see all the corporate B.S. If this is to happen, there will be almost nothing local left in Steamboat.

March 18, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jmemcse (anonymous) says...

Is Staples considered "Big Box"? I'll bet Pilot Office Supply thinks they are. I'd imagine Staples saves the members of the Chamber Resort Ass. lots of money for their small busineess supplies though. They sure put up a fuss about a Walgreens, but I never heard a word of oppistion about Staples. Didn't Pilot Office Supply go to any of the Chamber mixers?

March 18, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

another_local (anonymous) says...

The only reason there was a discussion about Walgreens was because a new building had to be built and review process for new development kicks in. the review is about the construction not the business.

There is no (and there should not be) a process to review who is opening for business. Staples leased an existing building which does not trigger any kind of review.

March 18, 2008 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

smallfry (anonymous) says...

For RESIDENTS, yes... there's no question that you either buy at Walmart, or you spend 3x as much at one of the boutiques... for anything. Even Ace Hardware is more expensive. As for clothing, forget about it! I have wished for a Super Target in Steamboat for years now. There's no question it would affect the small retailers in the area, but so does online shopping at this point. There are no options for people that don't have a bottomless bank account.

March 19, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jmemcse (anonymous) says...

another_local - got me on a technicallity. But you missed the underlying point of my post. Let me try again.

After a disscusion with a local small business owner where I expressed an interest in having a Barnes and Nobel in Steamboat, I was firmly told that anything they could offer at B&N could be found at Off the Beaten Path (in yer dreams) and I should be contributing to the local economy, not the profits of an international corporation.

A few days later I saw that same individual in Walmart bying a video cable that could have come from Alpine Electronics.

The people that don't want bigbox in stmbt, are the individuals that stand to lose a percentage of their profits when major retailers locate here, but when it saves THEM money, where do they shop?

Don't forget, the poor slobs trying to enjoy life here by catering to the whims of people with bottemless bank accounts have to be able to afford to live here.

March 19, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

another_local (anonymous) says...

jmemcse,

I am basically a free market supporter and I agree that people will do as they think best. Many people will buy cheaper for sure. I do take issue with the position that the products in Walmart are the same in all cases as the more expensive alternatives in other retailers but when it comes to a copy of the latest DVD they clearly are.

Big box retail does not help the local economy as much as locally owned retail, but it is better than "leakage" to Silverthorne, Denver or the internet. Big box, however does not differentiate our shopping experience from other locations for visitors with really does have a LOT to do with our success in attracting visitor dollars at retail. For that reason, I would rather that big box and other national retailers stay out of the downtown area.

Local business needs to find products and combine them with service that people want to buy. That is their problem to deal with and the government should stay the heck out.

I was responding to the people that seem to think that there is or should be some process that "allows" or controls what businesses come to town which is utter BS in my book.

March 19, 2008 at 5:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lilwelder (anonymous) says...

I try to shop Steamboat, but let's face it... prices are outrageous. Even the supermarket prices are getting to be crazy. I am for a Super Target because they have superior items to Wal Mart's. If we put a store with food on the West side of town, a lot of those commutors (that slow traffic down at 5pm) would stop and shop for 1/2- 1 hour. Those people would not have to travel back to the east side of town to grocery shop, which pulls a lot of extra traffic out of downtown as well. That would drastically help the traffic flow heading west, spread out over a longer period of time. Infrastructure is important but how it's implemented needs addressed still. I vote for an overpass system at Hwy 40 and Elk River Road that keeps traffic flowing and provides easy access to a Super Target.

March 20, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hubiem (anonymous) says...

putting a super target west of town would just entice east end people to drive to the west end of town to shop. thus creating an equal amount of downtown traffic. your argument for a west end big box store is seriously flawed. what is going to make "those commuters who slow things down" stop on the west side of town to shop every day. cheaper prices? if people really need something they will go to a store and buy it regardless of price. these people who you think will be stopping to shop on their way out of town are already stopping on the east side of town to do their shopping. why? because they need food. so if they shop on the east side of town after work, then they aren't on the west side of town at 5pm creating more of a traffic jam.

March 20, 2008 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

longtimelocal (anonymous) says...

Just a thought,

I am less than excited about having typical box stores here, but perhaps with proper building code and planning guidance they could be made to fit in better to their surroundings. My concern is this: We buy a few items at Walmart, and travel to Denver and Silverthorne anyway to get as much as possible from Target and Costco. That is lost revenue to the city. There simply is not an option here to get a lot of items without those stores, and it hurts our community. We also end up buying a lot of things online, which again does not help Steamboat. I think MOST people would gladly spend their dollars here, it is unrealistic though to think llama fur, western furniture, and other specialty items (for example) will fit the bill. I see no way around this, other than to require that they be built with the character of our community in mind. My thought anyway....

March 20, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sickofitall (anonymous) says...

Last set of clothes I bought were on the internet. We have local dealers slinging cowboy hats made in China! Better question is "What direction is the USA heading in?". I feel so much better buying goods made in Mexico, India, Vietnam , (Sorel's used to be made in Canada, but guess what!).. I am boycotting China.

March 21, 2008 at 5:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

longtimeres (anonymous) says...

I feel that Steamboat is ready to have a big box store. We need a place to shop on the west side of town. Those of us who live and work on the west side still have to go all the way through town to get groceries at the end of the day. I feel that the small downtown retailers will still have the tourist traffic. I shop locally when I can. I go out of town or on line to make purchases that are too costly to make in Steamboat. Having a discount store would at least keep the tax dollars in our town. If you want to have a working class in Steamboat we need to help them be able to live and shop here.

March 20, 2008 at 7:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slick (anonymous) says...

I cannot believe that anyone would give this question any merit. The free enterprise system works if given a chance. The manipulation of competition could have serious consequences. Let's entertain a different correlation to illustrate the flawed merit of the question. Let's say that it's not fair for foreign made vehicles to compete in the US automotive market. Maybe we need to give these vehicles a derogitory name such as "big box". These foreign manufacturers are unfair competition because they don't have the same employee benefit costs as the US companies; (ex: healthcare, retirement, IRA contributions, workmanscomp, umemployment insurance). Also, their monetary system is different than ours. They use our money for R & D to produce a better product. Does anyone have the right to say you can't purchase these vehicles because this isn't FAIR to us? The thought process behind the no competition theory is totally flawed. But there is a moral to the story. We could nationalize health care and all live at the IRON HORSE INN!

March 21, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hubiem (anonymous) says...

slick, the government manipulates the free enterprise system already. that is why there are anti-trust laws. if the government doesn't manipulate competition it could have serious consequences as well.

March 21, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lilwelder (anonymous) says...

hubiem...
You have a lot of responses but no answers.

I think you're stuck in defensive mode. Right now, everyone who works on the west side and downtown have to travel thru town to the east side to shop. Putting a superstore on the west side would take a significant amount of those people (who are headed west) out of downtown. Yes some people from the east would commute, but they have the opportunity to stop at several stores on their side of town first.

Do you not realize the majority of people who commute to work in Steamboat live west of Steamboat, not east. The people who live east already have multiple choices to shop at and are not going out of thier way, so they are not an issue. There is no major traffic jam heading east out of Steamboat.

People who live out west have no where to stop to grab dinner items or whatever they may need. Of course a lot of those commuters would stop to grab things or to grocery shop. Not sure what your arguement is on why they wouldn't?

I hate to inform you, the people who live west dread going thru downtown to City Market or Safeway at 5pm. You say they are already stopping on the east. I am referring to the commuters who go west, which is the majority. Not all of them come from the east side of town. When someone comes from the west, goes east to shop and then west again...that's 2 trips per car that wouldn't need to be going thru town, if there was a large store on the west side of town.

And yes, of course people who shop for a large family will go to a store with cheaper prices. Just ask any mother of 4.

One last thing; everyone has to shop on the east side of town now. Have you been west at 5pm? There is an extreme traffic jam. Wouldn't it be logical to think that what we have isn't working with the growing population? Maybe it's time for some ammenities out west.

March 21, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hubiem (anonymous) says...

my answer is no big box stores in steamboat. if things are so expensive here that you can't afford to live here, then move to appalachia where i grew up. where there is a super wal-mart or super target every 20 miles. where every small town has a vacant downtown area full of empty storefronts, and abandoned buildings. where wal-mart and target supply the masses with cheap, low quality goods, and reap the benefits of being the only retail establishment still in business because they ran everyone else out of business. is that what you really want?

as soon as wal mart and target start selling cheaper goods, the local businesses will feel the pinch. already we lost boggs hardware downtown. probably due to wal-mart and true value having cheaper prices. boggs was awesome. you could find things there that now have to be special ordered at ace. being bigger and cheaper isn't always better.

i drive around town pretty much every day and pretty much all different times of the day. what i am saying about the westbound traffic jam is that when it is bad at 5 in the afternoon, the eastbound lanes have relatively light traffic. it isn't hard to drive east at all. if a lot of people want to shop after work and they head east to do so, it alleviates some of the westbound traffic. if the big box store that everyone wanted to shop at was on the west end of town. then everyone will be headed west toward that store and it will cause more congestion west of town. these downtown workers that you talk about who are shopping for a half an hour to an hour each evening are now shopping east of town and thus helping the traffic jam, or they could be shopping west of town at your big box store and causing more traffic to be headed west.

did you ever think that no big box store is going to want to be on the west side of steamboat in the first place. in the winter a lot of money comes from tourists. anyone putting in a store wants to be as convenient to those people who are here on vacation as possible. if there was a big box store on the west end of town , a lot of tourists would want to shop there instead of on the east side of town. this would contribute to a lot more traffic coming both ways through downtown.

March 21, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lilwelder (anonymous) says...

I wish nothing more, than to see Steamboat the way it was in 77 when I first came here. But the fact of the matter is, the middle income American that keeps the infrastructure of our great town running could use a break from the Steamboat prices. If you like it the way it is, then you cannot complain about the influx of non english speaking people who take the jobs that employers need to fill. We have to make living easier for lower to middle class American's, so they can afford to live here...and therefore work here...and therefore keep our town alive.

To make it a little easier to swallow, maybe you should buy stock in Super Target or Super Wal Mart. Sooner or later, one of them will come to town.

March 21, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MtnWarlock (anonymous) says...

Steamboat may get more big name chain stores however, the city fathers will never let them build to their "big box" specs! Look at the history. The Wal-mart we have in Steamboat, is the smallest one ever built! Anything short of a lawsuit or an out right rebellion from the petitioning public, it will not happen soon! Wait until Memorial Day, when gas shoots up to $4.00 a gallon! Out of town shopping will have a whole new meaning! So will a lot of other things we buy locally! Like I've said in other blogs; the highways to Steamboat Springs have been gated for a lot time! If your not in, your out! I know that sounds negative but, financially it is true! I feel fortunate I bought in when I did. I still work like a communist to maintain here!. I would enjoy saving a little! I try to shop local and support our neighbors. It's hard!

March 21, 2008 at 6:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

wz4now (anonymous) says...

Amen Mtnwarlock!!!! I cannot even buy enough motor oil at one time at our Wal Mart to change the oil in my diesel truck, "they don't stock that much". I have lived here over 50 years and believe me you could buy more of the day to day needs of a family 50 years ago than you can today. Affordable house should be expanded to "affordable living". For a working family to survive here affordability is far more than just a place to live. If Steamboat chooses not to allow the big box boys Craig and Hayden will. I make at lease one trip out of town a month (usually to the Denver area) and seem to never spend less than $1,000. If the city fathers of Steamboat and our transplanted mega-home owners don't want the "affordable living" component in Steamboat the leakage will only increase, whatever gas may cost. We all have a computer and can shop online letting UPS buy the gas. For the record we do not have a locally owned lumber yard. With Wal Mart's employee stock purchase plan I guess you could consider it locally owned!!

March 21, 2008 at 9:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

boatski (anonymous) says...

boatski says Craig will become like Glenwood Springs and Hayden will become like El Jebel

March 21, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slick (anonymous) says...

We need to set the record straight on Boggs Hardware. I personally shopped Boggs for over 15 years, back when the Short Branch Saloon was on the corner. The real reason that Boggs went out of business, was due to parking. Having only 5 spaces behind the store was inadequate to sustain their business. Driving around the store 5 times to aquire a parking place within 2 blocks was a waste of time. I told Bob that I was unable to allocate enough time to aquire a parking place to shop their store.

I would love to blame the city of Steamboat for this, but that would be inappropriate. Bogg's Hardware needed to change their location, to have convenient parking, if they were to survive Steamboat's growth.

This is a very interesting subject. East Steamboat and West Steamboat need to have their own ammenities. We need to adjust our city planning, due to our topography and the hour glass effect of our valley, that falls directly downtown. This is not rocket science. We need to quit bickering over the subject. We need to take the initiative and have the courage to come together as a small community, in unity, to make these tough decision that will affect our future and the quality of life for everyone in the valley. Bogg's Hardware's inability to change, should be a lesson well learned.

Also for those concerned:
The government controls the free enterprise system for hostile take overs and anti-trust. These all require court proceedings and are not arbitrarily set by any form of our government. (Just to set the record straight)

March 22, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )