Steamboat Springs City Council members Tuesday night made it clear they want to consider making changes to the downtown parking system. The city this summer will have another parking study done that will weigh a number of options including the prospect of paid parking.

John F Russell/File

Steamboat Springs City Council members Tuesday night made it clear they want to consider making changes to the downtown parking system. The city this summer will have another parking study done that will weigh a number of options including the prospect of paid parking.

Steamboat Springs City Council resolved to try and improve downtown parking

Advertisement

— The Steamboat Springs City Council appears more resolved than ever to make some changes to improve the downtown parking system.

One council member Tuesday night said the city should remove all the parking spots on Yampa Street to enhance the pedestrian experience and create a “game changer.”

The conversation grew out of a discussion about the possibility of converting a public parking lot on Yampa into a riverside park using lodging tax money.

Council members weighed in on whether the city could afford to lose the 21 parking spots.

“I’m ready to pull those parking spaces,” council member Kenny Reisman said. “We’ve been foolish with our parking plans. I think we’ve said ‘no’ as a community to everything that’s been thrown out there because we’ve been stubborn to change. I think whether it’s paid parking or eliminating parking on Yampa altogether — which to me is, quite frankly, a no-brainer in this community — it would revitalize that street the moment we did it.”

He said removing parking from Yampa would take guts from the community and the council, but “my goodness, would we look back and say, ‘That was a game changer there.’

Reisman pointed out there is an underutilized parking lot across the Yampa River at Howelsen Hill that is minutes away.

As he recalled a recent trip he took to Boulder, he said though he had to park a few blocks away from the popular Pearl Street pedestrian mall, “you don’t think twice about it because the place you’re going to is phenomenal.”

Reisman was joined in his call to address downtown parking by Council President Bart Kounovsky and members Walter Magill and Sonja Macys.

“Parking is not going to get any better downtown at all, and it’s going to be an issue that will affect everyone down there,” Kounovsky said after he mentioned all of the revitalization efforts that are possible for downtown, including the redevelopment of the Yampa Valley Electric Association headquarters on Yampa Street.

He suggested it might be time to form a task force or seek out some public comment on possible changes to improve the parking system.

Magill said the city needed to better identify its current public parking places and use lots such as the one at Howelsen and the rodeo grounds.

“We have to look forward and envision that if we open up the park and we get the downtown we want revitalized, where are we going to park people?” Magill asked.

Tony Connell said the city should look into leased parking and what could be offered off-site.

Residents and visitors this summer will start to see some subtle changes to the city’s parking system.

The city recently ordered some directional signs to help steer people off Lincoln Avenue and into public lots like the ones at Howelsen Hill and 10th Street.

It will be followed by wayfinding signage showing people their parking location in relation to the attractions downtown.

The city also is working to select a consultant to conduct a citywide parking study and make recommendations.

The council is expected to get another update on parking plans when it meets June 3.

To reach Scott Franz, call 970-871-4210, email scottfranz@SteamboatToday.com or follow him on Twitter @ScottFranz10

Comments

Harry Thompson 7 months ago

In Boulder there is parking close by if you are willing to pay. If you know your way around you can find parking garages and lots all around the Pearl Street mall. In regards to the underutilized parking at Howelsen and the rodeo grounds-have you been over there during the busy weekends when parking is most critical?

It is time to address the parking in downtown, it won't be cheap, but it is time. If Steamboat wants a vibrant retail district, more close in parking is needed, not less. It is time to build paid parking structures and stop pretending that having fewer parking spaces somehow makes it better.

0

Paul Hughes 7 months ago

"Deja vu all over again"! Another expensive parking study to be put on the shelf with the other expensive parking studies -- all of which were ignored! The existing studies have some good suggestions: paid parking like the system Aspen uses; changing the parking times to allow each space to be used many times per day; parking maps to show visitors where they can park and for how long; a shuttle from the Stockbridge lot for employees; and so on. Council would be wise to revisit the existing studies before wasting more money on a new one.

3

Joey Bowman 7 months ago

The Stockbridge lot is never used to its potential, Why is it not being looked at? Maybe city council should meet once a week and have a budget for coffee and muffins,to work it out??

0

Lee Cox 7 months ago

Even if you don't put up parking meters, posts and markings to delineate parking spaces on Lincoln Avenue will reduce the practice of having three cars in the space that four cars could park. Leaving 4 feet between vehicles when parallel parking is a waste of space.

0

Scott Wedel 7 months ago

Looks like a shared hallucinogenic experience. Downtown SB is being compared to Boulder's Pearl Street Mall and downtown Aspen? I'm surprised it wasn't compared to Champs-Élysées in Paris.

Sure, go ahead and ban parking on Yampa St or even close it to vehicular traffic. People just adjust. They'll park on Oak St, maybe Pine St, maybe take bus and maybe not go downtown.

The only way to "solve" parking is to have a lot with plenty of capacity that is the most convenient parking. Like how the Meadows lot solves parking for Ski Corps since spots are available and the frequent shuttles make it the best option.

0

Traci Smith 7 months ago

Speaking of parking, I work in Ski Time Square and I think it is ridiculous and a waste of taxpayer money that they are sending parking enforcement officers to enforce the 2-hour parking on Ski Time Square Drive now, when the entire street is essentially empty. But, they only sporadically patrolled during the height of ski season when it was packed, people parked all day long, and illegally used the handicap parking.

1

Amy Harris 7 months ago

The city has paid for enough parking studies; we don't need another one to tell us the same thing. The fact is that people don't want to change their habits, and the Steamboat habit is to park, for free, very close to wherever we want to go. This has to change in some way as our city grows. Boulder is a good example of a medium-sized city that has addressed its parking issues. If you want to park anywhere downtown or near the Pearl Street mall, you will pay for that privilege. If you don't want to pay, then you can use 3 hour parking a few blocks outside of the pay zone.
It's fine to say "we are not Boulder" or "we are not Aspen", but we are a town that has parking issues. Solutions to those issues are going to force some people to accept change.

0

Scott Wedel 7 months ago

There is no reason that parking has to radically change in downtown SB. The work on Lincoln Ave reduced the number of Lincoln Ave parking and that didn't require any change to the city's parking policies.

Parking is something that very few cities have "solved" because they continue to deal with parking issues. Boulder has an ongoing issue of people parking in residential neighborhoods to avoid paid parking. Their solution has been an ever expanding program of property owners needing a permit to park on the street in front of their house and ticketing cars parked without a parking permit.

Changing parking policies affects many individual decisions made by people with different priorities in different circumstances. So the results of any new parking policies is rarely as effective or clean as predicted. For instance, if SB removes parking from Yampa St then it probably won't increase parking at Stockbridge as much as predicted, but will increase parking along Oak and Pine Streets far more than predicted. And then those homeowners will complain about the difficulty of themselves and their guests finding a parking spot near their homes. Parking "solutions" are almost never an actual solution, but just alter the parking issues and whatever progress is made in one area results in issues in adjacent neighborhoods.

Also, shopping malls have long competed with downtown shopping by offering easy free parking. So a downtown parking policy can push certain downtown businesses to move to Central Park or Wildhorse.

1

rhys jones 7 months ago

Stockbridge will never catch on as it was intended, a park-n-ride. After driving that far, it's just too close to their destination; commuters and visitors (those who even know about it) would prefer to drive the extra mile or two, and take their chances finding parking closer to wherever they're going. Otherwise they're walking a half mile into town, or waiting on a bus. Then there's the return.

I still advocate a multi-tiered parking structure, and two locations suggest themselves: The City-owned lot at 10th and Lincoln, and the soon-to-be-vacant YVEA lot across from their building at 10th and Yampa. The new tenants will contend that they need the space for their employees/(residents?) and I would reply just give them free passes, if we charge for those spots to begin with. I say keep it free. That lot sits 90% empty most of the time as it is, not counting the 4th of July, which is way under 10%. Eminent Domain, baby.

Or we could go with the Telluride model which resurfaces every few years: Make visitors park at Society Turn, miles out, and ride a shuttle into town; only locals get in-town parking passes... but I (and they) find that a bit user-unfriendly; there's got to be a better way...

0

Scott Wedel 7 months ago

Or just acknowledge that parking isn't really much of a problem. City's lot at 4th and Oak is rarely full. The reason parking is available at Howelson is because people find closer parking.

1

rhys jones 7 months ago

Probably right, Scott. 8th & Oak gets more use just because of its central location, but still can usually yield a spot. Now watch me waffle, karma chameleon that I am... but we are probably talking about throwing a lot of money at a non-problem, except for two or three times a year. But that's why we elected them, right? To waste our money?

0

Scott Wedel 7 months ago

Rhys,

Seems to me that when running for office that they say how they will use taxpayer money wisely. Once in office then they start making deals and can become convinced of the validity of a business case which no one in private sector considers valid.

Note the similarity of FCMHP, Iron Horse and Elk River parcel. All were available to private investors that had passed. And yet it was government officials not investing their own personal funds that decided these were great deals for government.

0

John Weibel 7 months ago

One way the numbered streets except fifth and put in diagonal parking. Free except the one way signs and will increasing parking by about 30% on those streets. Take it to another level and one way Oak and Lincoln with diagonal parking and you increase parking substantially. You also can synchronize the lights and have people stopped at lights for less time. Oak traffic is increased but Lincoln's is decreased making it a better experience.

0

rhys jones 7 months ago

John -- That makes WAY too much sense, why it'll never happen.

0

Fred Duckels 7 months ago

The city was lethal on parking space requirement in years past, but when the new court rooms were proposed downtown, the visionaries abandoned all requirements in order to salvage that location. About the same time parking no longer was a big deal when developing as the motive was to force everyone onto a bus. The bus craze never materialized the way it was intended and now the businesses are having to face reality. We seem to think small and in terms of grants and big solutions will probably continue to be beyond the imagination.

2

Scott Wedel 7 months ago

"The bus craze never materialized the way it was intended and now the businesses are having to face reality."

And what reality is that? That business is good enough that customers cannot consistently park directly in front of their business?

When what is now special event parking situation such as free concerts becomes the typical parking situation then SB will have a parking problem. SB has so little of a parking problem that the Lincoln Ave construction project was willing to remove a few dozen parking spots for the pedestrian bump outs and improve bus stop access.

The place for a parking garage is Howelson because it seems to be the only place large enough for the ramps to not cost more parking space than is being gained by adding another level. And right now, parking at Howelson is rarely a problem so there is no reason to make it into a parking garage.

0

Scott Ford 7 months ago

It seems to me that we get in a hurry proposing a cornucopia of solutions to a problem we have yet to define in ways that can be quantified. The first step in this process is simply defining what would “parking” success look like downtown and how would we know as a community it has been achieved.

A paid for “Parking Study” may help define the problem but it is just as likely it won’t. From my perspective getting in a rush to do something/anything so we can say we did something – could end up being worse than doing nothing. The Stock Bridge parking lot may be a monument to “Ready/Fire/Aim”

(Although I am on City Council, my opinions are my own and may or may not reflect the views of my fellow council members.)

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 4 weeks ago

Scott, The reality is that the move to busses never caught on and we are faced with parking problems, and if the economy picks up a huge traffic snarl. We will wake up some day and Lincoln Ave will be in gridlock with no solution in sight. Glenwood is facing the same "head in sand" approach and CDOT may move all parking off Grand Ave and use the road as a thoroughfare with limited downtown access. But what do I know, I thought that affordable housing was a debacle fifteen years ago.

1

Scott Wedel 6 months, 4 weeks ago

Fred,

So what are the current parking problems? That there isn't a spot available on Lincoln in front of the business you want to visit? That you sometimes have to find a spot on Yampa or Oak St? That on free concert and other special event nights that you have to park a few blocks away? Almost always I find parking at 4th and Oak which is pretty close to whatever. Parking clearly isn't tight enough for downtown business owners to come up with a plan to get themselves and employees to park elsewhere so that there is enough parking for customers.

The sort of traffic delays that SB locals complain about are so small compared to so many other places. That from 5 to 5:30 pm that there might be a five or ten minute delay does not seriously count as a traffic problem.

1

Fred Duckels 6 months, 4 weeks ago

Scott, You are right, today, we can deal with the parking and traffic that exists. The problem is that both are long lead items and decisions must be made and anticipated years ahead in order to avoid looking like the YVHA crew. Once matters are out of hand, chaos ensues. In Nov. 2007 74% of the respondents to the question of the week thought that we needed an alternate route through town because the traffic was approaching gridlock. Our shoppers have refused to get on a bus in order to shop and we are seeing warning signs of problems ahead. Trust me on the traffic that is what I do for a living.

1

Fred Duckels 6 months, 4 weeks ago

Scott, In the past we have approached traffic gridlock and it is necessary to come up with potential solutions.. To date our local visionaries have refused to even acknowledge that a problem may develop, refused to even let the thought cross their minds. That my man is either blind ideology or abject stupidity or both. But then I was the canary in the mine on AH so who am I?.

1

Pat West 6 months, 4 weeks ago

Isn't this "gridlock", it's simply from introducing too many cars into a space where their speed is limited, thus causing backups. Poor design.

Want to reduce the traffic backup on westbound 40, entering downtown? Slow traffic to 40mph at Pine grove, and then to 35mph before Hilltop. For Eastbound, slow down traffic to 35mph at the Stockbridge transit center. Slowing the flow of traffic before it reaches downtown will prevent more cars from entering downtown at once, and allow cars to pass through downtown before more enter. The speed limits on Lincoln are outdated and do not reflect the increased usage this road has seen in the past 20 years.

As for parking, I don't have problems parking downtown, and think Lee Cox's solution of painted spaces is excellent. Go one step further and put meters on those spaces, and we would see plenty of parking on Lincoln as people who don't want to pay go around the corner, or search out the free parking we already have but goes unused at Howelson, and the Stockbridge. Parking meters would also give us hard data on usage that we lack.

we don't need a parking study to implement these ideas.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 4 weeks ago

CDOT studied the traffic prior to redoing Lincoln Ave. Lincoln Ave simply does not have a traffic problem needing major changes. Sometimes waiting a few minutes at rush hour is considered normal. When traffic gets worse then they could remove a light signal and do some other reconfiguring.

Likewise, parking has been studied enough that the options on how to add parking and programs to save closer parking for customers are known. But parking isn't bad enough or costing businesses enough customers to convince local businesses that it needs to be done.

Traffic and parking are like AH in that they are ongoing issues that government action doesn't "solve" because a lessening of the issues also increases demand. Reduce traffic then people start avoiding rush hour or are willing to live further away if the commute time is still less than 30 minutes. Make it easier to find parking then more people drive to downtown. Make housing cheaper then more people want it. They are all chronic issues in which all that can ever be hoped for is reducing the severity of the issue. And the cost and unintended consequences of any such efforts need to be considered.

0

John Weibel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Scott F -

To simply view it as parking is a mistake. Looking at it from the whole under management is what is needed. Traffic is not that bad most of the time as has been pointed out. However there are events that cause major traffic issues as there are times when allowing better flow of the traffic through downtown would make tourist and locals experience better.

One waying oak and Lincoln would allow Lincoln to be shut down for a parade and then oak could have all traffic routed on it, and possibly four lanes not allowing left turns making getting through town better on those days when there is an event.

We have been taught to compartmentalize issues which fails to see the complexity of the world and how working towards one goal can move you closer to other goals or further from them. The parking issue could move other issues in a positive direction as this one issue is addressed.

Failure to look at the whole will many times waste resources when two birds could be killed with one stone

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Pat and Scott, Both of you seem comfortable with your ability to tweak, but beyond that stage we have not allowed ourselves to wander. We deny any circumstance that is beyond our ability to tinker. I suppose this game plan will carry us into the next century so maybe it will be their problem.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

You don't design a roadway and traffic patterns so that traffic isn't so bad when closing the primary thoroughfare for a parade. When you close the main road then you are expected to have traffic problems.

Traffic (and parking) is the result of many individual decisions. As conditions change then decisions change. Such as right now it is almost always faster when coming from the mountain to reach Fish Creek Road from 3rd and Lincoln as compared to taking Hillside. So then a chunk of existing traffic will avoid downtown as part of their commute when traffic gets worse.

As for Oak St, it is a future possibility, but it would probably be more intensively commercial before it is used as a primary thoroughfare. Before that happens the cross streets will probably be one way streets and left turns on Lincoln will be greatly restricted.

0

Chris Hadlock 6 months, 3 weeks ago

One of the first things that Steamboat Springs needs to recognize is that when compared to larger urban areas like (Denver, Dallas SLC, Chicago, Omaha, STL etc.) is that you simply do not have a traffic problem or a parking problem. The ONLY time I have had trouble parking downtown is for events like fireworks on the 4th or Winter Carnival.

Yes, sometimes traffic backs up. People are not very predictable and we seem to have accidents every now and then. Fred is actually right here in that if there is a traffic problem it will take a decade to fix and involve hard choices that the Main Street vendors in particular want to avoid. We are a mountain town with limited traffic choices. How much is it worth spending to avoid a 15 minute delay every now and then?

1

rhys jones 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Fred says that seven years ago, 3/4 of the respondents to a poll voiced a preference for rerouting Hwy 40 around downtown, to alleviate the congestion mentioned in this article, and responses... a solution of possibly monumental undertaking, if undertaken properly, not simply rerouting streets... something needs to be BUILT. Like a bypass.

I will use this excuse to drag out my soapbox and advocate a northern bypass, takes off by ergo-7-11, goes up that hillside, behind the college; portions possibly elevated, skirting Strawberry Park, an exit there, to continue back toward Spring Creek and the Old Town Hot Springs, utilizing the hill above for a descent back to the existing, near Hilltop.

Maybe that'd make some work for some locals; I'm sure the Feds would kick in, being a US highway... we could put pavers on Lincoln and make it a mall, so semis aren't spewing fumes in diners' faces... forget this Yampa yammer...

Then again... maybe the merchants WANT the traffic, a captive audience, as it were. I just think there is a significant percentage of traffic just passing through, with no intention of stopping; they contribute heavily to our issues, and we should just let 'em go by.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

A bypass is not going to happen for decades. Traffic studies have shown most of downtown traffic starts or ends in downtown. Tens of millions are not going to be spent on a bypass through expensive neighbors and green space for a relatively modest number of vehicles.

What will happen is that the light at 8th will be removed as more lights are harder to synchronize. The center lane might cease to be a left turn lane and be a reversible lane to handle peak traffic (if you want to cross then you have to turn right and go around a block to a light to cross Lincoln). Removing left turns gives a lot more time to forward green signal and greatly increases peak traffic flow. Maybe Oak St becomes a one way street and Lincoln one way in the opposite direction.

But none of those are currently needed because traffic on Lincoln is far from bad enough to need drastic solutions. And it would be very silly to do that construction now because we don't know traffic patterns 20 years into the future. We don't know to what extent growth and increased commuter traffic will occur in Hayden vs Stagecoach, both of which have the platted lots to double their population.

1

John Weibel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Wasn't suggesting designing traffic patterns for a couple events a year. That was simply a side benefit of designing it to add parking in addition to getting traffic to flow better. Being able to time all the lights going each direction will limit stopping at lights. Restrictions/Blockages cause the system to slow down. It is simple fluid dynamics at play, you require it to stop because the lights can not be synchronized for both directions then traffic backs up as a result.

Today, it really is not an issue except on busy summer days, when tourists utilize their cars more often than in the winter. However, in the future it could become a larger problem, limiting those who want to come here as they may decide that the summer traffic through town is more than they want.

Based upon the current paradigm carrying forward into the future, Fred is right, and planning and working towards dealing with the issue today is something that needs to happen. Will it, probably not, because people primarily react to the set of circumstances that are throw their way. However, if one looks at traffic coming in most days from the west it is backed up pretty far and if Steamboat 700 or something else were to come online to the west then traffic could become problematic in the future.

It is not a today issue it is a tomorrow issue that should be addressed in the future but before it becomes a real problem.

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

We have two classes of opinions on traffic, one consists of folks who rarely participate in the race, maybe only get to and from work once a day, and two, those that have to be in traffic as a course of doing business. Many are in this category and don't care to be lectured by non participants. How many were in the thick of things during the bubble? You might be surprised at the hostile attitude of those held hostage by the downtown merchants and the total lack of concern by our "visionaries". Concerning an alternate route, this will fought to the death by those on the left side of the political spectrum. They want no more roads and they want to develop a gene pool that nurses at the teat of big government and dutifully rides it's designated transportation..

0

rhys jones 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Rarely am I in agreement with you Fred, but we agree on the bypass thing.

Scott W says it'll cost "tens of millions" of dollars -- so what? We've shown we'll throw that into shady real estate deals!! At least the Feds will kick in, it'll provide work for hopefully lots of locals, maybe your guys too, play the politics right... it'll get the traffic off of Lincoln; we can make it a pedestrian mall, kiosks, benches, maybe a cute little stream (call me a lefty now) make Oak and Yampa one-way each, now seeing less traffic... or shove it all onto Oak, being largely local traffic now, shut down Yampa too, include it in the plan; Aspen, ya wanna talk malls... just an option I'm floating, can't stop thinking...

We're visionaries, Fred, ain't no two ways about it.

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Parking and traffic are of utmost importance to our town and our forte is drawing tourists. Both problems greatly detract from the attraction that we have. Vail took all commercial traffic out of the village years ago as they saw it's downside. Presently the coal mine pays a lions share of our tax base and we are doing our best to kill that goose, maybe we should looking at our whole card.

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

rhys I caught that about ;one second after I posted.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

BTW, there already is a bypass. It is county roads Twenty Mile, 33 and so on.

That is about as of a bypass that is going to exist for decades.

There is no path for a bypass that isn't highly destructive. Thus, talk of a bypass is the stuff of delusionaries, not visionaries :)

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Scott, Einstein said the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.

2

rhys jones 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Fred -- He also said that it's not that he's so much smarter than everybody else, just that he sticks with the problem longer.

0

Melanie Turek 6 months, 3 weeks ago

I find it amusing that Fred, who opposes every government spending plan around, is perfectly content to support spending millions of "OPM" on a bypass. Could it be because his company would stand to make a lot of money on such a project?

1

john bailey 6 months, 3 weeks ago

so we give the contract to who ? if it became a need , perhaps a company from say , Nevada ? would that be better ? I got it , think of elevated I-70 in the Dirty Diaper .... yes that's it ....~;0)

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Melanie, I will be long gone before any major projects mature. Scientific thought starts by including all factors and not eliminating those that cross agenda lines. Long term we have problems and the time to start planning is sooner rather than later. In the future our traffic and parking problems could escalate exponentially and we need to recognize the possibility and start thinking in that direction. To date most are in complete denial, I worked on this problem years ago and at that time city hall had it's line and agenda and woe be it to any employees that wandered off the reservation. This was during the Iron Horse era and the visionaries of those times have mostly been driven into exile. Our foremost task is to determine what our customers want. I suggest that we take polls of visitors and see what they think of traffic and parking. This poll must be scrutinized thoroughly or the results will be what certain factions want them to be.

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Scott, You are fond of referring to traffic studies of the past. These studies were initiated and funded by agenda driven councils that told the engineers what they expected to hear and alas that is what they got. The studies were given parameters completely eliminating unwanted solutions. I grew up in SS and fondly remember the days in the fall when one could look down Lincoln and not see a car in sight. I was not raised in California and I do not feel comfortable in what I consider bedlam. The real issue is not what you or I think but what our visitors want and this is paramount.

0

jerry carlton 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Melanie Most of us know what Fred's background and credentials are for his opinions. Share with the rest of us what are your background and credentials are? You have been on this blog for a while so I assume that you know my background. If you have any questions, I will be more than happy to reply to them.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

By what scientific (not subject to bias) does downtown SB currently have a traffic and parking problem?

Our traffic and parking issues could also grow logarithmically By what scientific evidence should traffic and parking be expected to grow exponentially?

A poll of what tourists think of traffic and parking? A port on scientific method suggests a poll as a primary source of data?

0

John Weibel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Scott

If you view 40/Lincoln from the west side of town you will see a developing problem. If you do not see it then it's not worth the effort.

If you do see it then when you add a little more load to the system the "friction" loss to to "pipes" ability to convey traffic increase and a bottleneck developes. Go review water pipe load information and extrapolate it to traffic. It is not that much different.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

You complain about computer models of global climate change as being imperfect, but will then argue that water flow in pipes is basically the same as traffic? As if some of the water can decide to flow later when it isn't congested?

Traffic analysis is performed using well established queuing theory

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Scott, Maybe when your house is burning the FD can say "lets come back later when we have more water". Maybe the ambulance can decide to take you to Craig if Lincoln is too busy. I think that you are trying to drag us down to your level so that you will have the experience advantage.

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

So in Fred's world the ambulances in Denver drive to SB to avoid Denver traffic.

Simple fact is that SB traffic is far less than is common elsewhere particularly along the Front Range. And there are no reasons given why traffic issues here will have so much greater of an impact than it has everywhere.

0

Pat West 6 months, 3 weeks ago

In my world, if everyone got out of their cars for trips downtown, and rode bikes, traffic and parking would never be a problem. You can't build your way out of automobile congestion, the only real solution is to think of ways to get us out of all these cars.

0

Jim Kelley 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Parking then riding/walking is fine and should be encouraged if your errands, shopping, and activities take you to downtown. This has nothing to do with traveling through downtown to get from south side to west side or visa-versa. I agree with Scott mostly that actual parking is not as bad as many seem to declare here. Traffic however, especially from 13th street through to west side could and should be made smoother. It should be two lanes wide through to Snowbowl or so. Asinine maintenance scheduling on roads (painting lines at 4:00 in the afternoon on a Monday for instance) coming into town on Lincoln from the south seems to always leave a mile+ line of traffic coming when anything is getting worked on (easy fix). That and big events seem to be the only real inconveniences though.---Especially compared to other mountain towns (Silverthorne and Glenwood Springs come to mind). Suggestion mentioned here such as converting to one-way streets with diagonal parking, enforcing two hour limits, or re-purposing the current YVEA lot would suffice for now. Planning for parking and traffic issues for twenty years from now with no immediate problem now seems a waste of resources and time. Any talk of a bypass is pure folly given the obstacles and resources it would take, not to mention what it would leave Steamboat looking like (Glenwood Springs perhaps!?!).

1

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

I believe that CDOT's analysis is that hwy 40 from 13th street to Elk River Road is going to be an issue. That enough traffic splits at Elk River Road for that intersection to be the key.

But they will wait until the traffic gets worse because they will want to see how much traffic is from the west vs from the north. That could affect how they design the intersection. If some developer acquired SB Lake lots and put in a water and sewer plant then there could be far more traffic in that direction with the major design challenge of getting enough cars through the intersection making left turns. Or maybe they something radical and loop southbound traffic behind Ace and behind SB Pilot to rejoin near the dealership.

0

rhys jones 6 months, 3 weeks ago

And YOU'RE making fun of MY bypass?? HA HA HA HA....

0

Scott Wedel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

A few blocks of level existing roadway would be a far easier bypass than you long loop with hills and all privately owned.

And my bypass could be supported that area's property owners as it makes a few more properties getting highway visibility and would allow W Lincoln businesses to have far easier access than would be the result of making it a four lane highway.

And I am not pushing for it, just saying by the time that CDOT decides to spend money on W Lincoln traffic that a solution other than widening it might be considered.

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

We need to make good decisions for us and be able to keep the resort attractive to customers. Uncle Scam has been dictating matters here and elsewhere by giving money to an ideology that he is pushing. We have seen his firstborn "public transportation" come in with massive subsidies but it is not curing parking and congestion as promised a few short years past. The methods that we need are between us and our customers and trying to put our square peg into Scams round hole is getting us nowhere. First we need to determine what the customer wants and give them a town where they feel comfortable spending time. This will be key going forward even if big brother wants to take his marbles and go home.

0

Fred Duckels 6 months, 3 weeks ago

Another favorite of big brother was Affordable Housing and we took the bait hook, line and sinker. It is time park the agendas and get on with our own life free from the old Chinese disease "no thinky". I'm beginning to think common sense is a four letter word.

0

John Weibel 6 months, 3 weeks ago

It was not that long ago that there were hundreds of new single family homes planned on the west side of the town. Putting in diagonal parking on the numbered streets to increase parking, as driving around trying to find a parking space some days, reduces ones experience. Should it be perfect no, but it is not an expensive or hard fix. Planning for one way traffic on Lincoln or Oak is something that would take a lot of planning to implement and waiting for it to become a major issue could possibly make a relatively easy solution almost impossible.

Scott, the difference in fluid dynamics in relation to vehicles is not that much different. Yes some will change their traffic patterns. However, as the I-70 corridor suggests, the issue will remain. As for computer models dealing with an exceptionally diverse set of variables, if they were coming close to predicting what is happening then I might believe.

As I stated before, the sun has gone quiet (the sun spot activity is similar to that of the little ice age). Any change in the dynamics which are causing it to quiet down, internal or external will have an effect on the earth. Throw in the sheer thermal mass of the earth (probably discounted in models as they are out to prove a way to create a global tax) and the time delay of it being heated or cooled by the sun, energy in interstellar space or what have you, the lag from when the sun started to go quiet and the earth cooling would have some delta.

Anyway, Robin Hood did not take from the rich and give to the poor per se, he took from a corrupt government and returned what was taken from the taxpayers to them.

It is a very dynamic system and to believe that we can comprehend all the variables at play, how they should be taxed to try and internalize their external costs, at least on the climate - there better be a way for one to prosper from sequestration and not simply pay a tax on cow farts, when rice paddies give off as much or more methane. Anyway, I digress.

Parking is an issue at times and seeking out inexpensive fixes to the problem is prudent and should be looked into.

0

Requires free registration

Posting comments requires a free account and verification.