A ski instructor from the Kids Vacation Center leads her students back to the base area Thursday afternoon. Intrawest, the parent company of Steamboat Ski and Resort Corp., no longer will offer seasonal employees health insurance.

Photo by John F. Russell

A ski instructor from the Kids Vacation Center leads her students back to the base area Thursday afternoon. Intrawest, the parent company of Steamboat Ski and Resort Corp., no longer will offer seasonal employees health insurance.

Seasonal Steamboat Ski Area employees will no longer receive health insurance from Intrawest

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— One of Steamboat Springs’ biggest employers is scaling back its health insurance offerings as a response to the Affordable Care Act.

Intrawest, the parent company of Steamboat Ski Area, informed all of its seasonal employees earlier this month that it no longer would offer them health insurance after April 30.

The change has sent several of the company’s employees here in Steamboat to the state’s new health insurance marketplace just days before a March 31 enrollment deadline.

“The company, along with the rest of the country, is adapting to the new changes in health care resulting from the (Affordable Care Act) and will continue to work with staff to help them make the best decisions based on their individual situation,” Steamboat Ski Area spokesman Mike Lane said in an emailed statement about the change.

Intrawest’s decision to not continue offering seasonal employees health insurance on the company’s group CIGNA plan is poised to impact employees differently depending on a variety of circumstances ranging from their incomes to their family makeup and their ages.

In an email to employees, ski area officials wrote that an analysis from Intrawest found that coverage on the new health exchange would be cheaper for most of its seasonal employees.

Erin Gleason, the community and small business health insurance coordinator for the Northwest Colorado Visiting Nurse Association, said the seasonal employees who have come to her office for help are finding their options on the marketplace greatly vary.

“You have some who are very excited and some who are very upset depending on their circumstances,” Gleason said. “Basically, it comes down to if they qualify for a subsidy, or if they don’t and they’re going to have to pay full price.”

She said employees who qualify for the subsidies should see a reduction in their overall annual cost of health insurance.

But those who don’t, either because their income is too high or because of other circumstances, the costs could be higher.

Gleason said older retirees who are working seasonal ski jobs could see the most impact from the changes in health insurance.

“As you get older, the premiums get bigger and bigger, and it increases their incentive to take these minimal hourly jobs for the benefits,” she said.

Gleason said that on the marketplace, these older workers who have higher incomes from a pension often don’t qualify for subsidies and have to pay full price.

The monthly prices of insurance could vary by hundreds of dollars depending on the subsidies.

Because of the complexity of each employee’s health insurance situation and the short amount of time to get registered, Lane said the ski area is working with local insurance brokers and the VNA for help with navigating the marketplace.

Gleason said the VNA saw about 100 Intrawest employees during insurance enrollment workshops this week.

The sessions followed two meetings the ski area held about the insurance changes March 5 and 6.

“Intrawest is very interested in helping their employees by setting up these meetings,” Gleason said, adding that the ski area’s human resources department has been working nonstop in recent days to help employees. “The problem with it locally is the seasonal employees here didn’t have word from Intrawest until the first week of March.”

The influx of Intrawest employees at educational sessions about the insurance marketplace came as health care navigators here already were busy with enrollment deadlines looming.

“It’s hard for all the seasonal employees here in town because all of this new health insurance is based on their income, and it’s hard to predict sometimes what the impact will be,” Gleason said.

Even before the launch of the marketplace, seasonal workers here have faced challenges with health coverage.

At a luncheon last year held to discuss the Affordable Care Act, a seasonal ski area employee outlined how it was a struggle each year to receive partial benefits from her employer and then face an offer of a COBRA plan for extended coverage that would cost her more than $1,600 per month.

“That’s out of the question for my family,” she told the audience.

With Intrawest, employees had the option of continuing coverage with COBRA after they were laid off, finding another private plan for the months they didn’t work at the ski area or forgoing health insurance.

The new health care law now requires that these seasonal employees carry insurance year round or face a fine.

Intrawest’s change in coverage affects all of its resorts, including Winter Park.

According to the announcement, the company’s benefits staff is working to determine which seasonal employees may have worked enough hours in the past year to qualify for regular insurance status.

Gleason encouraged seasonal employees who have coverage ending soon to start shopping for new insurance if they haven’t already.

The VNA will host free information sessions about the insurance marketplace Monday at LIFT-UP of Routt County from 1 to 3 p.m.

Additional meetings will be held at Bud Werner Memorial Library from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. Friday and March 28.

To reach Scott Franz, call 970-871-4210, email scottfranz@SteamboatToday.com or follow him on Twitter @ScottFranz10

Health Insurance FAQ from Intrawest

Health Insurance FAQ from Intrawest

Comments

A.J. Steiner 4 months, 1 week ago

Way to go Intrawest! That was the best timing ever! I'll bet there are some "great" end of season review comments.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

AJ , remember the ticket price hike during the bad snow year ? timing is every thing....HAHA

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

"One of Steamboat Springs’ biggest employers is scaling back its health insurance offerings as a response to the Affordable Care Act.".

"...as a response to the Affordable Care Act."

"...as a response to the Affordable Care Act."

Clearly this is George Bush's fault...

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Lots of complaining. no solutions. The same old thing over and over and over. What is your plan for providing access to health insurance for those with pre-existing conditions and containing costs? What's that..........you don't have a solution............don't get sick maybe. As long as you get yours, who cares about anyone else? What problem?

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

I wonder how many of those who are going to get cut voted for Obama, had friends and family who voted for Obama...

One of the few things I'm going to enjoy as I watch my country slip into the abyss, is seeing all those who supported the programs which led to that demise dragged down right alongside the rest of us...

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

If I wanted America to fail

To follow, not lead; to suffer, not prosper; to despair, not dream.

I would start with energy.

I’d cut off America’s supply of cheap, abundant energy. I couldn’t take it by force. So, I’d make Americans feel guilty for using the energy that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their businesses, and powers their economy.

I’d make cheap energy expensive, so that expensive energy would seem cheap.

I would empower unelected bureaucrats to all-but-outlaw America’s most abundant sources of energy. And after banning its use in America, I’d make it illegal for American companies to ship it overseas.

If I wanted America to fail

I’d use our schools to teach one generation of Americans that our factories and our cars will cause a new Ice Age, and I’d muster a straight face so I could teach the next generation that they’re causing Global Warming.

And when it’s cold out, I’d call it Climate Change instead.

I’d imply that America’s cities and factories could run on wind power and wishes. I’d teach children how to ignore the hypocrisy of condemning logging, mining and farming — while having roofs over their heads, heat in their homes and food on their tables. I would never teach children that the free market is the only force in human history to uplift the poor, establish the middle class and create lasting prosperity.

Instead, I’d demonize prosperity itself, so that they will not miss what they will never have.

If I wanted America to fail

I would create countless new regulations and seldom cancel old ones. They would be so complicated that only bureaucrats, lawyers and lobbyists could understand them. That way small businesses with big ideas wouldn’t stand a chance and I would never have to worry about another Thomas Edison, Henry Ford or Steve Jobs.

I would ridicule as “Flat Earthers” those who urge us to lower energy costs by increasing supply. And when the evangelists of commonsense try to remind people about the law of supply and demand, I’d enlist a sympathetic media to drown them out.

If I wanted America to fail

I would empower unaccountable bureaucracies seated in a distant capitol to bully Americans out of their dreams and their property rights. I’d send federal agents to raid guitar factories for using the wrong kind of wood; I’d force homeowners to tear down the homes they built on their own land.

I’d make it almost impossible for farmers to farm, miners to mine, loggers to log, and builders to build.

And because I don’t believe in free markets, I’d invent false ones. I’d devise fictitious products—like carbon credits—and trade them in imaginary markets. I’d convince people that this would create jobs and be good for the economy.

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

If I wanted America to fail For every concern, I’d invent a crisis; and for every crisis, I’d invent the cause; Like shutting down entire industries and killing tens of thousands of jobs in the name of saving spotted owls. And when everyone learned the stunning irony that the owls were victims of their larger cousins and not people, it would already be decades too late.

If I wanted America to fail I’d make it easier to stop commerce than start it easier to kill jobs than create them more fashionable to resent success than to seek it. When industries seek to create jobs, I’d file lawsuits to stop them. And then I’d make taxpayers pay for my lawyers.

If I wanted America to fail I would transform the environmental agenda from a document of conservation to an economic suicide pact. I would concede entire industries to our economic rivals by imposing regulations that cost trillions. I would celebrate those who preach environmental austerity in public while indulging a lavish lifestyle in private. I’d convince Americans that Europe has it right, and America has it wrong.

If I wanted America to fail I would prey on the goodness and decency of ordinary Americans. I would only need to convince them that all of this is for the greater good. If I wanted America to fail, I suppose I wouldn’t change a thing.

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

The solution is stop doing those things and do the opposite.

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Chris Hadlock 4 months, 1 week ago

It must be hard to live your life that scared of everything.

"We didn't do things that way in my day" "County is going to Heck in a Handbasket" "Kids these days, got no sense of responsibility" "Healthcare is going to doom this Country" "Cut entitlements but leave my Social Security Alone"

"Job Killing Regulations" "We need to pass laws against those Gay People" "We need to pass laws against drugs" "We need to legislate morality"

Fortunately for America, most citizens see thru your harsh rhetoric and when you are gone, your children and grand-children will continue to enjoy the American dream. No matter how foolish you seem to think they are. What really bothers you is that the younger generation is taking over and you do not like where they are headed.

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Neil O'Keeffe 4 months, 1 week ago

Mark and Steve, Interesting how your vaunted free market didn't play a role in this. Ski corp or its parent has been cutting health care benefits to its employees slowly but surely over the last 10+ years. The free market solution for those part time/seasonal employes left high and dry at the end of the season was COBRA and the costs were astronomical and many chose to roll the dice and went without. So in the event of an injury or illness while uninsured guess who foots the bill, those of us who are insured via higher premiums or the tax payer. The insurance companies don't take the hit that's for sure. So now that the ski corp has eliminated insurance for seasonal workers all together, these same people can now (if they choose) have year round insurance through the ACA that is probably not much more expensive than their 6 months of coverage under COBRA. And guess what, if they have an injury or illness, they will not be dipping into your precious pockets. Now doesn't that make you warm and fuzzy all over? You two wouldn't know the meaning of compassion if it hit you in the face.

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Mark Ruckman 4 months, 1 week ago

:) compassion is what you seek after being hit in the face :)

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Pat West 4 months, 1 week ago

Come on Chris, no way Mark Hartless believes his own rhetoric, he just has nothing to do, and spends his time thinking up paranoid theories and taking advantage of the forum to post them for his own amusement. Don't belive a thing he posts, it's all posted to start a joust, and allow him some mental excersize, while showing us all how smart he is. He just uses this forum as his hobby. If he really felt this strongly, he would take action in the real world. I imagine he thinks he is pushing the debate towards change, when actually most readers probably just shrug, laugh, and walk away shaking their heads.

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Fred Duckels 4 months, 1 week ago

We certainly are lucky to have outstanding bloggers capable of speaking for "most people".

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John Weibel 4 months, 1 week ago

Neil,

The underpinnings of a free market would be a currency which is not controlled by a private institution. As Thomas Jefferson is quoted "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

Toss in the distortion to the free market which guarantees pensions by the federal governments legislation, allowing so much investment, of peoples pensions, into corporations which really do not operate within a free market.

1

Jon Quinn 4 months, 1 week ago

The question I have for Mike Lane and the Intrawest team is, since we know that eliminating these benefits will save Intrawest a bundle, how much of the savings are they going to put back into payroll to help pay employees a living wage in our community? My hunch is that the benefits will go away, salaries will stay the same, and the savings extracted from eliminating these benefits will ultimately go to the top 1% of the Intrawest pyramid. Perhaps I am mistaken. Would any member of the Intrawest team care to comment?

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

To Jon and everyone who 'likes' his post:

  • Is anyone being forced to work for Intrawest?
  • Are all profit-driven enterprises "pyramids?"
  • When a company has increased profits who should determine how the funds are allocated? The owner(s), shareholders or employees?

What you're preaching is communist/socialist drivel. You may as well scream "Workers Unite!" You're free to demand communism and a 'living wage' and spout your Occupy 1% childishness and we're free to point out that you have no right to tell other people how to spend their money or live their lives or what values to hold dear.

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months, 1 week ago

More good news on the ACA. And this should really tickle the fancy of the insurance company haters (same people that hate big oil as I recall) as it appears that the Obama administration is adding provisions to ACA that will increase the "bailout" health insurance companies receive through 2016. Oh and yes Dan S. there actually have been conservative/republican plans proposed that would replace the ACA so don't throw that straw man at me. "Health-insurance executives are starting to warn of double- and even triple-digit premium hikes for health plans sold on the ObamaCare exchanges for 2015. But Health Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told Congress last week that any ObamaCare premium hikes would be modest. In fact, the Obama administration is scrambling to rewrite the law to make that happen. After close of business Friday, the administration proposed greater bailout protection for insurers who sell exchange plans. The new rule sweetens what the Affordable Care Act provided (at taxpayer expense, of course) to protect the companies from losses. It’s illegal, because no president has the constitutional authority to rewrite any law, including the Affordable Care Act. It’s a clear effort to head off these sky-high premium hikes, which would be announced publicly in the months ahead, further angering voters just before the November elections. Until last Friday, insurers faced two options: Hike premiums skyward or drop out of ObamaCare. The administration is providing a third option — an enhanced bailout for companies that incur losses."

and a link to the article. http://nypost.com/2014/03/21/obamas-ever-growing-insurance-company-bailout/

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Fred Duckels 4 months, 1 week ago

Obama has made a deal with the devil and we, along with quantitative easement are the guarantors.

2

Neil O'Keeffe 4 months, 1 week ago

Wow,more rhetoric from Steve 24/7, he is a virtual attack dog for FOX Entertainment and the Koch brothers! Way to stay on point Steve!

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months, 1 week ago

Wow. Fox news and the Koch Brothers. Left wing talking points. Get original Neil. Too funny.

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John Weibel 4 months, 1 week ago

Neil,

The underpinnings of a free market would be a currency which is not controlled by a private institution. As Thomas Jefferson is quoted "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

Toss in the distortion to the free market which guarantees pensions by the federal governments legislation, allowing so much investment, of peoples pensions, into corporations which really do not operate within a free market.

1

Neil O'Keeffe 4 months, 1 week ago

Not talking points Dan, stubborn facts. Something your group knows nothing about. By the way Fox News is a misnomer since news requires facts and relevance. Fox even went to court to prove they are an Entertainment Network not a News Network so they could be protected from the various slander, libel and defamation of character lawsuits against them.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/01/09/288674/-Why-Limbaugh-or-Fox-News-Are-Never-Sued-for-Libel

This sums up your go to Entertainment/News source:

"In tort law a plaintiff cannot bring a libel lawsuit against a defendant with a public reputation as a liar. The legal reasoning is that a known liar cannot damage the reputation of anybody, because nobody will believe the slanderous remarks of a known public liar! That means that Limbaugh, Hannity and O' Reilly have made so many inaccurate, misleading and untruthful remarks about various people that they cannot be sued for libel because any reasonable person would never believe anything they said. So goes the precedent of law."

"ANY REASONABLE PERSON WOULD NEVER BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAID." now that is too funny!

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months, 1 week ago

Neil, My group. What group am I in. Is it a gang, a posse. Am I part of some vast conspiracy that I am not even aware of.

1

Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

All of the people you cite offer OPINION shows, not news broadcasts. Opinions of issues and public personalities are protected from libel claims by the First Amendment. It would seem your friends at the dailykos with their fancy degrees could tell the difference between sharing an opinion and reporting the news. It just kills the liberals that in the free market of ideas Fox News leads the cable ratings by multiples in every demographic, every single day. They are the undisputed cable news champion and it makes you sound like a fool to argue they aren't a serious news organization when they lead the ratings in that category. Every. Single. Day. http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/category/cable-news/

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Thomss Steele 4 months, 1 week ago

Most of you either voted for the man or didn't bother showing up election day. Now take your medicine and accept responsibility for your mindless mistake. You deserve what you get.

2

john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

ah yes , fool me once , but this is ridiculous...what a sorry state of affairs this country is in.....

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

First of all Dan K., no republican or anyone for that matter, has proposed a solution to the problem of pre-existing conditions except the President. Medicaid does not cover you unless you are poor even though Steve the scientist keeps repeating the same thing over and over and the latest republican utterance doe not cover pre-existing conditions if you haven't had continuos coverage. I should back up, the individual mandate is actually the republican plan but they don't want to be reminded of that. Providing coverage for the millions of Americans, myself included, who have a pre-existing condition and have been excluded from the insurance market is the main reason behind the ACA. With all the wining and moaning we must not forget this fact! John Q. makes a great point. I wonder if ski corp. will raise our pay since they should be saving a boatload of money. And Neil is right on point. I have worked for ski corp. for over 20 years and it is very true that insurance benefits have been shrinking and becoming more expensive steadily over the years. I believe that if people added up their winter time contribution to their health insurance premiums and added in the COBRA amount, it would be about the same, or in many cases it will be cheaper under the ACA. And Pat I like your analysis concerning the rhetoric of Marc H. I think you hit the nail on the head here. He likes to entertain himself and fuel his insecurities and like Chris said, he is scared of everything. Yeah, Dan K and Steve the scientist, those stubborn facts do get in the way don't they. Are you two sure you're not on the Fox News payroll because you sure have the talking points down. Lies, deception and ignorance of the facts, they're all there.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

Ski-corp loves mindless bots like Dan S. they could care less.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

no worries , the kids will sign up and spare Dan his hardship.....or he can be a lifty and get mad coverage for real cheap.....HAHA

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months, 1 week ago

so says Dan S."no republican or anyone for that matter, has proposed a solution to the problem of pre-existing conditions except the President." so then I find this in a proposal put together by Sens. Orrin Hatch of Utah, Richard Burr of North Carolina and Tom Coburn of Oklahoma - Requirements that insurers cannot cap benefits, and must accept people with pre-existing conditions as long as they signed up in a one-time enrollment window if they were previously uninsured, or immediately signed up for a new plan after losing their previous coverage. The 2010 law has fixed open enrollment periods with exceptions for life-changing events but doesn’t require people to have maintained coverage as a condition of signing up.

Here is a link to the entire proposal. http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/bf0c9823-29c7-4078-b8af-aa9a12213eca/The%20Patient%20CARE%20Act%20-%20LEGISLATIVE%20PROPOSAL.pdf

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Sorry Dan K. but this is really old news. This is the plan that I was speaking of earlier. At first republicans responded to the ACA with the cry of "Repeal and Replace". Then it became abundantly clear there was no replacement plan and the battle cry became just "Repeal". Then the polling got so bad that even the GOP had to admit that we can't go back to where we were. So Sen. Coburn and his little posse get together and came up with this plan. They announced this as the "Replacement" that included coverage for those with pre-existing conditions. Then, upon further scrutiny of the plan it was discovered that this plan only worked if you had a pre-exisiting condition and also had health insurance. They had to finally admit that if you didn't already have a policy you were S.O.L. That's why you no longer hear about this proposal. So there you go, now you're all caught up. But nice try. You see Dan, there just is no way to cover people with a pre-exisitng condition without either the individual mandate or a public option. Without one of these, people would simply wait until they got sick, then buy health insurance and insurance companies, with only sick customers, would promptly go broke. There actually was another republican plan and it was implemented in the State of Massachusetts by then governor Mitt Romney. This plan included the individual mandate and is the model for "Obama Care". Governor Romney's plan is still in effect in Massachusetts and has been a great success. Steve the Steamboat scientist, no the ACA isn't working for me and I think you corrected yourself on that. I admit that the ACA is deeply flawed and will probably collapse if systemic changes are not made. One being affordability. It is impossible for people like me and probably you as well, to afford to pay over $1,200 per month for two people. This is a huge problem and must be dealt with. The President is making modifications as we go along. These are the unconstitutional and "lawless" acts that you all are so fond of calling them. We simply can't go back to the way things were and hopefully adjustments will be made to the ACA so that it does what it is intended to do. As for ski corp. I'm sure they have some sort of exception with regard to full time seasonal employees who work more than 30 hours per week. For instance, we are all officially laid off due to "lack of work" at the end of each season but we can not claim unemployment insurance benefits. Again, something to do with being "seasonal" employees. But I don't really blame ski corp., the ski business is a tuff business and it isn't going to get any easier. Participation in the sport continues to remain flat at best and this is not a good business model. All resorts are basically competing for the same customers as the customer base is not growing.

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan S. If you would read the proposal, section 202 I believe starting on page 2 in the proposal you would see that pre existing conditions are covered. Section 202: Create a New Protection To Help Americans With Pre-Existing Conditions

"Here’s how it would work. As long as an individual maintains continuous coverage from one plan to another, they could not be medically unwritten and denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition. Insurers would be required to offer coverage at standard rates based on age and residence to individuals who have stayed continuously insured with at least catastrophic coverage for a period of at least 18 months, without a significant break in coverage, similar to the HIPAA protections that exist under some circumstances today. So long as an individual, or family in the case of a family policy, has stayed continuously covered, they should not be forced to pay a higher premium solely because of a costly health condition when switching plans. Unlike the individual mandate which unfairly forces Americans to buy insurance or face financial penalties, these alternative provisions strike the right balance between strongly encouraging individuals to become insured, while ensuring greater regulatory predictability and market stability, which in turn helps to keep health care costs down. This protection ensures that individuals can transition from employer-based coverage to insurance in the individual market without being forced to face high premiums solely because of a costly underlying health condition. In the event an individual loses their employer-sponsored insurance, they would be able to choose whether or not to avail themselves of coverage under COBRA, or move immediately to the individual market with the benefit of the enhanced continuous coverage protections. For those who may be uninsured when our proposal is adopted, we envision a one-time open enrollment period in which individuals would be able to purchase coverage regardless of their health status or pre-existing conditions. This would provide a path for all individuals, regardless of whether they are sick or may develop an illness, to obtain insurance coverage. However, if an uninsured individual were to forgo enrolling during the one-time open enrollment period or during their applicable creditable coverage window, they would still be able to enroll during an annual enrollment period; however, they would not be able to avail themselves of the continuous coverage protections. Accommodations for life-events would also be accounted for, just as they are today for many individuals and their families."

And it with that I bid you adieu, adios, sayonara

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Kevin Nerney 4 months, 1 week ago

Steve M Thanks for the link to the Hoover digest article. It was very informative and written in an easy to understand style. This is the kind of link I don't mind clicking on and I wish more information like this was available from the main st. media.

My take on the Ski corp issue is even if they give the employees a raise I bet it will not cover the cost of insurance. As an example a 10 dollar an hour employee may get a raise to $13. but after insurance costs may see a net of only $9.00 making that employee actually working for less. Think it's time for a revolt. This is the reason unions were originally formed although in their current state they (unions) are as corrupt as the politicians

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Sounds great Dan K. I wonder where this great plan is and how insurance companies will be able to afford to cover people with pre-existing conditions if the pool if insured individuals is not large enough. Are there cost controls built into this plan so that a person with a pre-existing condition could afford to enroll? You don't mention anything about affordability. If not, it sounds like the same disaster that we have now with the ACA. If people are priced out of the market it's the same as not having insurance. Before the ACA I actually could have gotten insurance through the State plan which was about $1,300 per month, just for me. With the ACA it is about $600 per month just for me. Less than half what the cost was before the ACA, but still not affordable for me. At least insurance is now available even though it is definitely NOT affordable at least in Routt County. And what about all the B.S. with paranoia concerning your social security number as your little buddy Steve the Steamboat scientist talked about. Another lie for ya. The exchanges are just a way to find insurance companies. You can deal directly with your chosen provider and give them you SS as always. You also use your SS when filing tax returns so what's all the paranoia about? I am and the President is more than willing to look at any plan that will work. No one to my knowledge is against any plan that works no matter who comes up with it. As I have said repeatedly, first you have to determine whether or not you believe that access to health insurance for all Americans is a right or a privilege. This is the fundamental question that keeps getting lost in all the bickering and finger pointing. In the past, your party has felt that it is a privilege and that's why in all the years of the history of the republican party they have never made any attempt to solve this problem. That's why, after pressure from the public, they finally came up with the individual mandate idea that they promoted and only decided to oppose it when the President adopted the plan. Explain that one.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

he's like a tick who left his head some where.....

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Kevin Nerney 4 months, 1 week ago

Just curious, as I have not looked into ACA and don't plan on it. Why must locals buy into the Routt County plan and pay higher premiums when many of us drive to Denver for less expensive medical care now rather than pay the usury prices they charge up here. Cannot we sign up for Denver and then Denver becomes our "in network" and and just have to travel to see a Dr.?

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

The best solution to this, and most issues today, is individual liberty. People will always get sick and old and hungry and lonely and need things. The choice in almost every instance is between a) respecting individuals to make their own choices and b) forcing individuals to act according to the dictates of a chosen elite (whoever those happen to be from time-to-time).

Yes, this arrangement leaves some better off than others, just like life itself. Some are born healthy while some are born sick. Life's hard. Let's stop pretending we can all sing Kumbaya and solve everyone's problems with force and other people's money.

Whether it's a politician or a voter: only a tyrant would use force against people to impose their view of 'fairness' and only a fool would think it's a better condition.

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John Weibel 4 months, 1 week ago

If preventative health care is a key to keeping health care costs down, then actually getting to the root of the problem, nutritionally deficient foods would be the starting place.

Those nutritionally deficient foods are the result of the government intervening into the marketplace and subsidizing grain production. Food today has about half the nutritional value as it did 100 years ago. http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5339

People are sicker today then they used to be and the food that is providing them with sustenance is not as high of quality, partially from the processing to ensure safe foods- though that can be tested in a lab today in the case of milk. The other cause is the essential strip mining of fields when in continuous row cropping and sterilization of the soil with pesticides and herbicides killing the microbial life that helps get the nutrients into the plants.

So, the gubamint is part of the health care problem in trying to make food cheap for everyone… yet at what cost.

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Harvey Lyon 4 months, 1 week ago

The facts are:

  • While there are certainly issues in the automation of registering/signing up and there are issues with what the rates are......

ACA has provided medical care to many who formerly did not have it! And ACA has made medical care unaffordable to many that had it but no longer have it. No surprise, the Democratic Party has been giving the National Treasury away for years in return for votes.

TV and radio announcements....all advertising for ACA are paid for by tax payer dollars....the same as Michelle Obama's trip to China (along with 77 friends and family).

TV and radio announcements against ACA are paid for by citizens that have been successful enough to be able to afford such announcements.

Now the question is......do you wage earners that worked hard in school, and at the job...... and have proven to be benificial to your employer wish to pay for the medical care of those that have not?

Come November you'll have a choice.

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John St Pierre 4 months, 1 week ago

how many of the 20 somethings that ski on their mountain have insurance anyway.... I've always wondered what Yampa Medical Center's collection rate has been on our seasonal skiers......

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

Neil says:: "You two wouldn't know the meaning of compassion if it hit you in the face."

Compassion: putting a gun to the head of one man, taking his property, and redistributing it between two other men in order to get their votes. THAT is compassion, Neil.

Compassion: "handing out free food to teach dependance on an entire race and generation; something Park Rangers forbid us from doing to animals because we know it destroys their ability to fend for themselves. THAT is compassion, Neil.

Compassion: using the law as an instrument of plunder so as to live at the expense of one's fellow man. That is compassion, Neil.

Did I get it 'bout right???

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

Pat says:

"Don't belive a thing he posts, it's all posted to start a joust, and allow him some mental excersize, while showing us all how smart he is. He just uses this forum as his hobby."

You are partly correct, Pat. I often consider this akin to chumming for dingbats and often I find myself in a very "target-rich" environment.

Either way, I owe each and every one of you a sincere "Thank You" for lots and lots of laughs...

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Mr. Scientist, again hard to follow your twisted, delusional logic. I thought you said you wouldn't use the subsidy because it's stealing from your neighbor. If so you shouldn't have to worry about the government stealing your SS#. So if you do qualify for the subsidy, but are to afraid to use it, then you in fact could get cheaper insurance, but fear is stopping you. Is this the case? If so you should contact the Koch Bros. because you could star in one of their phony ads that feature people who claim to be hurt by Obamacare but who are actually lying about their situation. You should also think about contacting Fox News and becoming their science correspondent. You could disagree with all the current scientific evidence about everything and come up with your own voodoo science and talk about how you are the only one who understands science and the entire global scientific community is wrong and you would fit right in. And what's with the comrade thing? Have you joined the ranks of the right wingers who are now in love with Vladimir Putin and are now describing Vlady on Fox News as a "real leader who knows how to get what he wants." Must be kind of a miserable existence to live in constant fear, uncertainty and doubt. Why won't you answer the fundamental question as to whether access to health insurance is the right of all Americans or a privilege. This is really at the heart of the matter. If you believe that it should be a privilege, then say no more. No need for further discussion. If you believe it is a right and you are unhappy with the the current plan, that's OK too, but why not spend time trying to improve things and find solutions rather than just whining, complaining and inventing phony roadblocks. That's all I'm sayin. Kevin, I'm with you on this and I've also thought about using a Denver address but I'm pretty sure it would be committing insurance fraud. This was my original argument, that something needs to be done about the cost for all of us living in mountain towns. My premiums would be half if I could use a Denver address. I wish the pilot would do a follow up story on this issue!

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan, I appreciate that you get to the heart of the healthcare matter which is: rights vs. privileges. Is the provision of clean drinking water a right or a privilege? I look forward to your response.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

so Steve keeps giving you a beat down with his links to info and this is what you come back with ? you sniveling little liberal . you sound like a recording . just imagine what your premiums would be if you get your ass back to Colyfornia. this state was just fine before you and your kind moved here . I've witnessed it for 30 plus years. wipe yourself better next time.

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Poor little Johnny, back to the school yard again. I must be really gettin under your skin. Well little man, why don't you try and find some big girl panties to put on and grow up.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan, Instead of taunting John and calling him names, why not take a moment to debate the issue of rights vs. privileges? After all, you assert in your previous post that is the 'heart of the matter.'

Is the provision of clean drinking water a right or a privilege? Please explain.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

because Dan has nothing , he has exhausted his liberal talking points while others blow him away with information. that's what his kind do. its kinda funny seeing him get red in the face and steaming out of the ears. come on Dan step up your game , sell a house lately ? punch in your Cali address and see what your master wants to charge you for Obamacare you so love.....and, um , you missed a spot.....

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan, Access to healthcare is important, no doubt. Water on the other hand, is central to life itself. If you believe all Americans have a right to healthcare, then certainly it follows that you also find a Right to clean drinking water.

If we have a Right to clean water why do we get water bills in the mail? What happens if you don't pay the bill? Can you force others to pay for your water?

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

good point ,Ken , I do my best to help keep our water clean, its pretty sad to see the garbage and such in our water system , even in remote areas around here in the lakes and high ponds . man can be such a pig , sad really

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan, Can we agree that the First Amendment provides a right to free speech? Since that's a Right, can you force the New York Times to print your expression? How about the Steamboat Pilot; can you force them to publish your thoughts? Can you force the radio station to broadcast your wisdom? After all, it's your Right, correct? So, since it's your Right (by your logic) you can compel someone else to pay for it?

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan, The US Supreme Court has determined that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual Right to keep a functioning firearm in the home for self defense (see: District of Columbia v Heller, 2008). Since possessing a gun in your home is a Right, can you force others to buy you a firearm? After all, you have a Right to have a gun, so it follows your logic that others can be forced to pay for it. You know, because it's your Right to have one.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

How's my Dan-Logic working out so far? In Dan's world: "My Rights = Someone Else's Financial Responsibility."

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan-logic..... that's an oxymoron , right ? ~;0)

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Robert Huron 4 months, 1 week ago

What I don't understand is why Health Care in the US depends on your employment. No other country in the Western World has such a system. The US has the best Medical Care in the world but the access to it depends if you are fortunate enough to work for a large profitable company. If you work for GE or Wall St. you have a gold plated Health Care Policy. If you work for the Ski Corp you may or may not have any Health Care. We are not all lucky like the Foreign Born Senator from TX Rafael "Ted "Cruz who receives his Health Care from the Wall St. giant Goldman Sachs at a cost to them of $20000 a year. (He opted out of his Congressional Health Care) The Ski Corp. is no longer a locally owned company. They are owned by a Wall St Hedge Fund who only cares about making money for their investors which is why they dumped Health Care for their seasonal employees last minute. It is more money for them not having to supply Health Care and I can assure you the employees received no pay increases to cover the cost they now have to bear.
The Conservative Heritage Foundation came up with a plan about 15 years ago to put personal responsibility back into Health Care to eliminate people from using the ER(the most costly) as their primary care facility and sticking the taxpayer with the bill. The then Gov. of MA , Mitt Romney , put it into law which required all MA citizens to buy Health Care. Today over 95% of MA citizens have Health Care instead of using the ER. Compare this to TX which has 70% with Health Care, the worst in the US. Gov. Perry of TX brags how great his economy is but what he leaves out he has cheap illegal labor that is paid garbage with no benefits. The ACA was supposed to be a Universal Health System for all citizens like the rest of the world however the Republicans in Congress said no because it would be socialism and a government takeover of Health Care. They were forced to accept Romneycare which is now called Obamacare. It is a Conservative program of personal responsibility. Of course now because Obama did it it is all wrong. My question is then what will they replace it with? What I find funny is the people most against Obamacare are on a government program called Medicare. If government is so bad then why don't all these 65 plus people opt out of Medicare and buy their own non-government insurance. I can tell you why and that is they don't want to pay $2500 plus a month for a high deductible policy if they could get it in the first place. Medicare came into existence in the first place because only 50% of people over 65 could even get insurance and those that did paid through the nose for it. What they are really saying is I've got mine and it is a right and screw everyone else.

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

Robert,

I agree that it is a shame that health insurance seems tied to one's employer. This is not good.

I believe it is also bad that people's social security, payroll taxes, etc, are tied to employment.

If people had to take their taxes and social security withholdings out of their own check at the end of the month and pay it right out of their pocket things would likely be a lot different.

Ditto for healthcare. If people had to buy their own, and if all policies required a significant % be paid by the end user then people would scrutinize their healthcare and shop for the best rates and prices would come down substantially.

Lasik eye surgery, for example, is largely NOT covered. People have to buy it themselves. Consequently, they drive down prices. Look at the price of THAT medical procedure and compare it to something that the end user does not pay for.

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Little Johnny, isn't it you who is all red in the ears. Didn't you start with the school yard insults. You chose to start it, I chose to finish it. You don't have to keep reading these comments if it makes you so upset. Maybe try and grow up and contribute something useful to the debate. Thanks Robert, well said. Now the attack dogs will be after you too. OK Ken here we go, I'll probably miss a few but I'll try, your free speech rights do not extend to private companies such as newspapers. I believe that we all do have a "right" to clean water. You have to pay your water bill. I'm not asking for anyone to pay for my insurance. I'm just asking for access to affordable insurance that I pay for. Why is that so hard to understand. Saying that since you have a right to own a gun, somehow that equates to others paying for your gun is frankly an idiotic argument and something I would expect from maybe Steve the scientist. So your logic Ken ain't workin so good. I've never heard anyone say or advocate for rights = someone else paying for your stuff. One more time from the top so you don't get confused, I'm advocating for all Americans to have the RIGHT to access to affordable heath insurance, pre-existing condition or not, that they themselves pay for. As Robert said, this is the republican plan for everyone to take personal responsibility to pay for there own health insurance. The fact that insurance companies are unrestrained as to what they can charge is another issue. The fact that what they charge is unaffordable to Routt County residents is another issue. You are not forced to buy anything. If you don't buy insurance, like me because I can't afford it, you pay a fine. I personally would prefer a public option that would be provided by the government that I would pay for that would control the cost of insurance. Call this socialism, that's fine with me.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan,
Thanks for your response. One one hand you say "I'm not asking for anyone to pay for my insurance. I'm just asking for access to affordable insurance that I pay for" then you close with "I personally would prefer a public option that would be provided by the government that I would pay for that would control the cost of insurance. Call this socialism, that's fine with me."
Pick a team, Dan; Freedom or Communism.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan - "“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Our Founders certainly understood that a democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. In fact, US Army training manuals as recent as the 60's listed democracy as a subversive and dangerous form of government. After the Constitutional Convention, when asked what form of government had been created, PA Delegate Benj. Franklin replied "A republic, if you can keep it."

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

BTW, The Seventeenth Amendment ushered in a new level of American democracy. If you wanted to find the source of our modern troubles, you need not look much farther than the impact of the 17th 'improvement' to our Constitution.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan , you ask for a lot more than ACA or don't you read your own posts. keep throwing though , sunshine , some of your xit might stick , eventually. so , how about that house ? or your students ?

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

"I'm advocating for all Americans to have the RIGHT to access to affordable heath insurance, pre-existing condition or not, that they themselves pay for."

"Affordable" is an unquantifiable term. In YOUR mind it's $500/month (maybe less). In my mind it may be twice that.

Alol Americans currently have the right (and privilidge) of access to healthcare. In fact, they access the best in the world.

Let's be clear... That's not what you're saying. What you are asking fopr is that that SAME LEVEL OF CARE be provided to you (and others) at the price YOU desire...

I'd like to buy ciggarettes for $1/pack. I'd like to have $2/gal gasoline. I'd like to leave the grocery store without dropping $200.

If you honestly think you are entitled to healthcare at a price YOU decide is "fair" then what other services do you soon think are over-priced???

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Mark, Dan has consistently demonstrated that his thought process is impervious to facts and logic. This matter can't be explained to him in a way that will cause him to reconsider his position because he begins with his conclusion (that he's entitled to something, in this case healthcare at a cost he finds reasonable) and only accepts facts and logic when it supports that predetermined conclusion. His closed mind reflexively rejects and mocks anything that doesn't support his predetermined conclusion. No doubt he spent his youth telling everyone a 'mind is like a parachute.' Look at him now.

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

and a rather unhealthy obsession with Fox News for some reason. he must be a Chris Mathews wanna-be. what a sniveling whiny liberal ~;0)

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

“In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us.” (or in this case "give us healthcare")

“Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can take his freedom away from him.”

“Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born.”

― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Grand Inquisitor'

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

hum, a girl friend of ours hired a young gal to work in a salon 2 weeks ago she came in recently and quit, her reason ? the gubbmint won't help her with insurance if she was working...........what kinda phucked up logic is that ? now Ski Corp can't just have all lifties working for em , or can they ? interesting , no ?

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Here's the really interesting thing about you right wing nuts. When confronted with facts, you perceive this as an insult. That facts don't match you beliefs, so this creates confusion and disbelief. The confusion and disbelief then turns into anger because you can't square your preconceived notions with the truth. Then you attack the messenger as evidenced by this forum. Then if you are also not very bright and in addition insecure about your manhood and have nothing intelligent to add to the debate, like little Johnny, all you can do is return to your childhood days in the school yard and throw insults. I don't see the point little man. I guess it's a way for you to deal with your lack of self worth. This behavior is typical and explained in a book written by Chris Mooney called "The Republican Brain". I know you all couldn't handle reading this but it is pretty interesting and describes your behavior to a tee. You can't accept that the President was re-elected on the strength of the ACA. His opponent promised to repeal the ACA if elected and he was soundly defeated. You can't accept the president as legitimate so you demand to see his birth certificate and when he produces it you declare it a forgery. The scientific community publishes a finding concerning climate change and even though 97% agree with the finding you still can't accept it an declare it a fraud and demand to see the polling results. See a pattern here? Then you start in with all the same old worn out paranoid delusions with the guns, free speech, you bring out your little pocket copy of the constitution an suddenly you are all constitutional scholars. Never mind that the Supreme Court decides what is or is not constitutional. And the favorite right wing tool, "the straw man argument" comes out. The lying, deception fear, uncertainty, extreme intolerance, it all comes out with a vengeance and furious anger toward anyone who would dare to present facts. Probably what explains the latest republican approval rating, now at an all time low of 25%. I'm sure you don't believe in public opinion polls either. It is indeed an interesting phenomenon to watch play out. Well good luck and good luck wining future Presidential elections.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Thanks for your response, Dan. In the free market of ideas, I want to make sure your views are available for the public to consider. After all, isn't that hallmark of an enlightened society - the free exchange of ideas? I would personally advocate for the Pilot to start providing your thoughts to the community on a regular basis, both in print and web. Maybe a weekly column? I would literally pay money to see you take your ideas to the high school debate team on a Friday night for a public debate on the concept of Rights vs. Privileges. Imagine the community service that would provide!

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john bailey 4 months, 1 week ago

more of the same drivel from the liberal mouth piece. little Johnny sees a driveling idiot repeating the same old tired lines. just like your fearless leader , your days are numbered too, look at his failing admin. and his policies, driving this country even further in to the ground. how about this message they are sending to this local young lady ? your leader was re-elected because no one can go against Santa who promises free stuff, ah but its not so free is it little libby ? as your finding out with your Obamacare. America is full of low information voters who live in a bubble with no idea about whats going on around them you sniveling little liberal bigot....... another hissy fit in 3 , ,2 ,1 ......

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Oh I forgot about the hypocrisy. You hate government except when it comes to personal freedoms such as who can have sex with and marry, a woman's right to choose, imposing Christianity as if it were a state sponsored religion and trying to legislate Christian values just to name a few. Shameful. I do agree with Marc however that affordable is not quantifiable. This is one of the issues with the ACA that I have mentioned before but seem to get lost in all the "dissing" of the messenger instead of the message. I believe there is a cap at which you can't pay more for insurance premiums than a certain percentage of your income but the cap is set too high. Especially for us who live in the Yampa Valley and all mountain towns for that matter. Our living cost are disproportionately higher than in larger cities and this needs to be accounted for. This would be a good thing for you all to communicate to the insurance commission instead of just attacking me. Just think if as much energy was spent trying to improve the ACA as is spent trying to destroy it, we might be on our way to something that works. Republicans in congress have voted, I think 51 times now to repeal the ACA. Somehow they must think that maybe they will be successful after the 52nd try. What a waste. Reminds me of some skiers who do the same thing over and over and wont listen to reason and physics and think that if they just keep doing the same thing enough times it will eventually work. I think that's the definition of crazy. Thanks Ken, I'm glad you appreciate the free exchange of ideas. It is an interesting topic, rights v. privileges. It is a privilege to drive a car that must be earned by way of a driving test. This privilege can be taken away if abused. Do we have a right to access to health insurance? Right now according to the law we do. Should access to health insurance be a privilege that only some can enjoy? If it's a privilege can it then be taken away? That's the fundamental question that we should be debating in my view.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Dan, Thanks for returning to the conversation with me. Healthcare is still a privilege under current law and plenty of people will die as a result of a lack of care under Obamacare. You have a Right to emergency medical treatment in the US. Obamacare does not provide you with a Right to on-going care of a disease process. Your insurance can still say "we don't cover that drug or procedure for that diagnostic code" and you're right back to being on your own. Under Obamacare, it's only a matter of time before a government bureaucrat, not an insurance company, says "we won't cover that drug or procedure because of x,y or z" Pick an excuse for x, y or z; almost any one will do. I'd be careful with the 'it's the law of the land' argument, people may think you're referring to the Dred Scott decision or the National Prohibition Act. You know, the ones where the Supreme Court upheld slavery and Prohibition. There's been plenty of bad law in the past and Obamacare is a bad law in the present. Less people have coverage and access to healthcare than the pre-Obamacare environment. Now, you can't keep your policy or your doctor while you're forced to pay for birth control pills for 30 year-old women in graduate school (see: Sandra Fluke). Repealing Obamacare in its entirety, ASAP, would provide more insurance coverage and access to healthcare than replacing it with anything. If access to affordable healthcare for yourself and others was really your goal, you would support repeal. In the interim, fewer people in this country every day have access to healthcare and you're cheering on the program responsible for the damage. You should reconsider.

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Robert Huron 4 months, 1 week ago

Ken please explain what will replace Obamacare if repealed. What do we go back to? As far as I can remember insurance companies decided who they would insure based on preexisting conditions. They employ hundreds of people whose sole job is to find out ways to deny claims or deny coverage. A 60 year old would have to pay $2500+ a month just to get coverage if he could even get it. Personally I don't like Obamacare but the Republican alternative is to die quickly and don't burden your family. As I mentioned before this program was first developed by the Conservative Heritage Foundation to promote personal responsibility instead of people using the ER which is 10 times more expensive than a clinic and sticking the bill to the taxpayers. One night in the YVMC ER will cost you $10,000. If Romney had made it a national program instead of just MA Republicans would have loved it. But that would go against what R-Sen. Mitch McConnell said the day Obama was elected and that was we must do everything we can do to make him fail. And they have done a good job trying with government shutdowns, birthers etc. Lets be honest this is more about the person than his policies. When I was in Texas, who has a Senator that is running for President who actually was NOT born in this country, all I heard was how they hated who was in the "White House."

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Robert - Obamacare has made things worse by every measure. There are less people covered. Fewer people have access to their doctor. People are forced to buy coverage they don't need (labor and delivery coverage for 80 year-old woman. Your representation that Republicans want people to die quickly is delusional and discloses an ideological bias. I suppose you also believe that the only reason anyone dislikes anything Obama does is an example of racism rather than a policy difference. Can't reasonable people disagree on the best path forward without demonizing the other side? Now, to answer your question: Repealing Obamacare in it's entirety would be better than what we have now. Opening markets and allowing insurance companies compete across state lines would have been an improvement to the previous system. As for pre-existing conditions; insurance covers unexpected expenses - that's the point of insurance - to indemnify a policy holder of financial losses incurred by unexpected and unplanned events. Should your car insurance cover oil changes? How about pre-existing conditions like fender damage or rust? Can you imagine how expensive car insurance would be if it covered car washes and air filters and that you could by coverage AFTER you wreck the car? Please tell me that you understand the impact this would have on the price and quality of car insurance. Why would the economic impact be any different in the health insurance market if people can get coverage for a condition after-the-fact? While Obamacare should be repealed ASAP for the good of the country, the Law of Supply and Demand can't be repealed by Congress - we're stuck with that one.

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Robert Huron 4 months, 1 week ago

Ken If that is the case we are right back to where we were and that is at the mercy of the insurance companies who will pay out big bonuses to Executives and those that find loop holes to deny coverage even if they are insured. That is why Insurance Companies have a 30% expense rate and Medicare is 3 %. If a person loses his or her job they will be one accident or illness away from bankruptcy. If that is the type of country you want then so be it. We the taxpayers will continue to pay for all the people who use the ER at tremendously higher rates. Before Obamacare the US spent more money(17%GDP) on Healthcare more than any other Western Country (9 to 11% of their GDP) and they cover all their citizens we don't. If Obamacare is a failure only time will tell because it just started however they said the same thing about LBJ's Medicare and Bush's Medicare Part D.
By the way no one is forced to buy a car however if they do they are forced to buy insurance. Either way it does not affect me because I've got mine however personally I do care about the rest of our citizens here in Steamboat and across the country. I would like every US citizen to have AFFORDABLE Health Care. We would be a better country and we could join the rest of the civilized world.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Robert: 'Affordable' is subjective and prices are strictly subject to supply and demand, no matter how inconvenient or undesirable that may be. Maybe you haven't heard, Medicare is insolvent and people covered through Medicare are having a very, very hard time finding doctors that will treat them because the Medicare reimbursement, in many cases, is less than the cost of providing the service. If Obamacare isn't repealed and comes to full fruition, you're gonna wish with everything you have that we could go back to where we were before it was passed. I reject your assertion that the US has not long-since led the civilized world and suggest that's why people are trying to get here with all of their might. Most people don't consider socialism/communism a very civilized way to manage a society. You'll have to admit, indentured servitude is just so 1860. Thank goodness we moved past that. Why some want to go backwards and make the whole country a plantation with Uncle Sam as our master is beyond my comprehension.

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Chris Hadlock 4 months, 1 week ago

I am a two time cancer survivor who happens to be self-employed or the owner/operator or a small company for the last 15 years. I can tell you for a fact that the previous healthcare system was awesome, but the health insurance system was a mess.

I have been flat denied coverage due to my survival of cancer (symptom free for over 15 years) I was quoted a monthly premium in excess of $3000 per month in 1995.

I have been quoted insurance policies in excess of $1000 per month that specifically excluded all types of cancer. Not even a waiting period, just flat excluded all types of cancer.

I make a good living and do not qualify for any subsidies, but please do not try to tell me that going back to the previous system is an option. I respectfully disagree.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Chris, Thanks for your comments. The previous system, with all of it's blemishes, was certainly better for the millions of people who have lost coverage or access to their doctors as a result of Obamacare. I have also operated a small business for the last 12 years and our group rates have gone up almost 30% this year alone, while our deductibles have doubled to get that rate. In addition, this rate is without imposing all of the coverages we didn't need or desire that will be forced on us next year under Obamacare. BTW, Congratulations on being symptom-free for 15 years! Hopefully, that's the same as cancer-free.

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Mark Ruckman 4 months, 1 week ago

Someday a bright person will figure out how to combine the Internet and political / religious differences to create a perpetual motion machine. :)

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

The left hates the status quo, even though the status quo is actually quite good.

They are always all too happy to make their idea of "perfect" into the enemy of the "pretty darn good" that we have.

I believe they constantly do this and ignore historical evidence to the contrary because they actually believe they can build Heaven right here on earth.

That promise was believed by many "progressives" in the 20th century. The result was 100's of millions of innocent people in the gas chamber, firing squad, gulag, and laogai; all in an effort to make that promise of Heaven on Earth a reality.

As far as progressives are concerned, the problem with Obamacare is that WE, the American people, are simply not smart enough to know a good thing when we see it. If we would all just try harder to participate in bringing about Heaven here on Earth it could happen. If we would all just stop resisting "change" and allow well=meaning people like Obama to do as he wishes, albeit outside the Constitution, albeit outside the very healthcare law HE HIMSELF signed.

It's OK with progressives that there is lawlessness in every branch of government, just so long as we are all going to Heaven... whether we like it or not!!

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Robert Huron 4 months, 1 week ago

Chris Having been uninsured due to loss of a job many years ago way before Obamacare I know how the insurance companies can screw you. Medicaid is not the answer personal responsibility is like Romney said in MA. . Affordable Health Care or Universal Health Care is the answer. If this country can throw away $3 Trillion in Afghanistan and Iraq and at the same time have the 2 largest tax cuts in history for our "job creators" costing another $5 Trillion we can afford Health Care for ALL US citizens like the rest of the world.

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Ken Mauldin 4 months, 1 week ago

Robert: You think that compelled personal responsibility is the answer? Where's the limiting principle in that theory? I don't think it's a proper role of government to force people to brush their teeth or eat their veggies. A paternalistic government doesn't build exceptionalism within a society. After all, how many Henry Fords or Bill Gates or Steve Jobs have come from Cuba, Russia or China in the last 100 years? I prefer we return to a model of governance where we encourage voluntary individual responsibility and discourage dependance on Other People's Money. Most grown people don't need or want government to play mommy and daddy in their lives.

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mark hartless 4 months, 1 week ago

"I don't think it's a proper role of government to force people to brush their teeth or eat their veggies."

I don't think it is either, Ken; but that is EXACTLY where we are. We have reached that Orwellian point at which "that which is not forbidden is compulsory". You are the property and responsibility of gubbamint and, like a ranchers cow, you will be "maintained" to IT'S liking, NOT necessarily to yours.

"Most grown people don't need or want government to play mommy and daddy in their lives." I am sorry, but I disagree. I believe we have forever slipped into that dark night where most people actually DO want gubbamint to order and finance their lives.

"Government is that great fiction whereby everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." -- Frederich Bastiat

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Dan Shores 4 months, 1 week ago

Robert is exactly right here but the right wing nuts have no answer. Chris shared a real life story that exposes the problems with the health insurance industry and Steve's answer is to go broke and then get Medicaid. Steve, going broke and losing all you have because you got sick, so that you can receive Medicaid is not a solution and is precisely why the insurance mess had to be fixed and again exposes your complete lack of empathy for your fellow human beings. Then talking about the government forcing you to brush your teeth, but you have no problem with the government telling you who you can marry or what a woman can do with her own body. The hypocrisy is stunning. And you have no answer or comment about your desire to limit our personal freedoms. Then you talk about all this free stuff and how you are being forced to pay for someone else's insurance. I'll tell you this, I and all of us were forced to pay for an unjust and immoral war waged against the people of Iraq for no reason other than more right wing delusional paranoia. No comment from the nuts about this one either. One good thing about this public forum is that all of you right wing extremists are being exposed to the public and they can see exactly what you are. The lack of empathy, selfishness, hypocrisy, inability to accept factual information, inability to reason and think logically, the rampant fear, paranoia, anxiety, conspiracy theories, blaming the government for everything that goes wrong with your life. Complete lack of personal responsibility which is supposed to be a hallmark of the conservative movement and the foundation of the ACA and Romneycare. Your own candidate Mitt Romney recognized the problems with health insurance and that's why he implemented Romneycare in Massachusetts and it has been a great success. But then he didn't have right wing crazies trying to sabotage his plan at every turn. No comments on this from the righties. Romney even touted his plan in his bid for the Presidency, but had to change the story to a states rights issue. He couldn't explain why if it worked so well in Massachusetts it wouldn't work for the rest of the sates. His only argument was that he believed each state should implement his plan on their own. Again, no comments here from the crazies. I'm sure I will be attacked personally here, again attack the messenger and ignore the message, rather than address the points I have highlighted. Hopefully these discussions will motivate all reasonable people to be sure and vote this November and make sure that the crazy extremist element does not get the chance to do more harm to our great nation. Thank you.

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john bailey 4 months ago

Steve , he won't reply because it doesn't fit his left wing agenda. so true about a public forum as to expose the clap trap that is the closed minded left wing sniveling liberals, right Dan ? you said so yourself. Little Johnny has no respect for your type not even to give you the time of day, you little azzhat. hows it feel to get down and dirty ? sometimes thats what it takes to call your kind out. now about that trip back to your home state , need help packing or you just wanna drop it all and high tail your sorry ass outta here ? but , before you do, answer my questions about your skiers and house selling or do your clients need to focus on the pizza and frenchfry method ? the harm to this nation started Nov. 2008 or didn't you hear.

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john bailey 4 months ago

who knew Joe Wilson had such foresight ..."you lie" ....priceless....scrap Odumbocare and start over , tort reform should be square 1...wipe your azz Dan it smells.....

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months ago

Please, would somebody, anybody sign up! and the "law" is tweeked once again. I am curious as to what the reaction of Dan S., Ken C., Chris H., Neil O. would be were it a Republican admin. continually tweeking a law. "The Washington Post is reporting that the Obama administration will give extra time to Americans who say they are unable to enroll in health-care plans through the federal insurance marketplace by the March 31 deadline. According to the Post, consumers who have begun to apply for coverage on HealthCare.gov, but who do not finish by Monday, will have until about mid-April to ask for an extension.

To take advantage of this extension, consumers need only check a box on HealthCare.gov to indicate that they tried to enroll before the deadline. The government will make no effort to determine whether, in fact, an individual actually did try to enroll.

Obamacare sure has made the government more trusting.

It has also made it even more dishonest. The Obama administration has repeatedly said that the March 31 deadline for enrolling in Obamacare is firm. Now, we find out not only that the deadline isn’t firm but that it can be avoided simply by lying.

The Obama administration claims that its latest accommodation is an attempt to prepare for a possible surge of people trying to sign up in the final days before the deadline. But with the federal health care website supposedly in good working order, no one should have much difficulty signing up for Obamacare at the eleventh hour. Moreover, as the Post points out, the extra time will not be restricted to people who waited until the last minute.

I assume that the Obama’s administration’s extension is the result of disappointing enrollment numbers. The White House wants to lessen the embarrassment of falling short of its target number of enrollees and perhaps to reduce the scope of the insurance company bailout that the low enrollment of healthy people will necessitate."

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

See, just like I said. Attack the messenger, right Little Johnny. Did your ears get all red and smoke come out of em? Your panties get a twisted up again? Wrong time of the month for you? You just can't handle hearing the truth can you. Was it the part about Romneycare that got to you? Or was it your immoral war in Iraq? Your inability to take personal responsibility like when your friend doesn't get a job you blame it on the ACA. Couldn't possibly have anything to do your friend, right. Just like the book said, the more you are confronted with the truth, the angrier you get. Steve, Marc, Dan K., Ken and the rest, so you condone the behavior of your dimwit minion fool? Nice. A fine example of today's right wing psychotic personality. Remember, you are being exposed to the public here, this is a public forum. Can't remember who suggested the Friday night debate at the high school but do you think this kind of behavior and language would be allowed? This a fine example of right wing behavior. And idolizing Joe Wilson. Wow. Sound like Tea Baggers to me. Disgusting behavior to say the least. Oh and by the way Little Johnny, I ani't movin. Especially now that I know how easy it is to piss you off. Wanting me to move because you disagree with my politics. Now who's the intolerant bigot? And what's with the pizza and frenchfry? What the hell are you talking about? What has fast food got to do with the ACA. Way to stay on topic idiot. There are more of us than you so just keep on spewing filth and hatred and see how many more followers you get. Check out the latest polling on you parties approval rating, all time low for the republican party at just 25%. I wonder why that would be?

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Pat West 4 months ago

Pizza and French fry are used to teach kids to ski. Snow plow, and parallel are hard concepts to grasp for a toddler.

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john bailey 4 months ago

correct Pat , and the pro instructor doesn't know this? really.....

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mark hartless 4 months ago

"Wrong time of the month for you?"

I wonder how a leftist/progressive would spin that if some "right-winger" asked some liberal woman if it was her "wrong time of the month"??

Do you, Dan think such inuendo would be allowed at a debate???

"Way to stay on topic idiot."

I suppose THAT language isn't "spewing filth and hatred" at all, is it, Dan???

You sound pretty angry yourself there Dan...

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Pat West 4 months ago

I will add that you all should be ashamed at the lack of decorum, and respect shown on this forum. So typical of what going on in Washington, both sides arguing pointlessly and calling names, and not moving on to issues that could be tackled if your disrespect and hatred hadn't already ruined any working relationship. I fear Mark Heatless is right when he says we get the government we deserve. With examples like this out in the electorate, it's a wonder our country isn't in far worse shape.

The Pilot should ban the likes of you from the forum for obvious violations of their posting rules, and clean up this mess. Your name calling and sniping isn't even good reading anymore.

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

Here's the deal Marc, I want to make sure that you and all your right wing buddies understand something. This is a free and public opportunity for public discussion, exchange of ideas and debate. If you all think that you all can be rude, crude, insult me personally and think that I am just going to take it, lay down, be intimidated or that I am not going to fight back and give it back, you are sadly mistaken. You can interpret my words anyway you like, call it anger, I don't care. What I call it is defending myself. My "right" to defend myself is not open for debate. I'll borrow your tea bagger slogan, "Don't tread on me" but I'm gonna add and M....Fer to the end. If you all think that by personally attacking me you are going to diminish my spirit, intimidate me or silence my voice, I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but it ain't gonna happen. I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what John's problem is, but obviously he hasn't learned to respect others. On the other hand, if you all chose to stay on point and debate and express your views without personal attack, I will do the same. If you all want to get down in the gutter or the school yard I guarantee you I will be right there with you. I also want you all to remember that this is your choice. You wanted to go here. You have the opportunity to stay above the dirt, but if you choose not to, you all will have to accept the consequences that go along with your choices. I don't recall you Marc, or most of you for that matter being rude or insulting to me personally. Only Johnny chose that path. But if you act as his apologist and his sycophant, you are just as guilty in my mind. So I suggest that you all, and Johnny in particular, take a breather, take a deep breath and think about the road you want to travel. Rest assured that I will not be intimidated, that I am indeed a fighter, that I will never back down or quit and that I have lived by this credo for a very long time, so the choice is your amigos.

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john bailey 4 months ago

like I said Dan , closed minded people such as yourself get nothing from me. I believe you are the message and not a messenger. no one should tolerate your xit , and your lack of responses to others shows your true colors and the like that is destroying this nation. do you even understand about my little lady friend and the xit message that sends to our young ? no , I didn't think so asswipe.....but keep it up , I'm always here to slap you down , lets go......

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mark hartless 4 months ago

"I don't recall you Marc, or most of you for that matter being rude or insulting to me personally."

Yet you lump me in with those you claim actually HAVE insulted you. To my knowledge you have hardly addressed any of my arguments.

Even now you excuse your continued hostility with the schoolyard retort of "...but HEEE started it...".

And not one of those on the "progressive" side of life here on this blog has stepped forward to answer my last question. I will repeat it: "I wonder how a leftist/progressive would spin that if some "right-winger" asked some liberal woman if it was her "wrong time of the month"??"

Please, one of you "progressives" explain to me an excuse for that language, that inuendo, that hostility, comming from "progressives" who everyone knows are more "refined, educated, thoughtful, loving, compassionate, sympathetic, etc" ???

Finally, I do not wish to diminish his reasonoing or argue with his perspective solely on the basis of his political views. However, I will strongly disagree with Pat. I have always advocated that the Pilot should allow people to express themselves and that we, as bloggers ought to have thick enough skin to take it like men, or walk away. I truly do not think there is any need for anyone to step in and referee these type matters.

The Bible teaches that "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh". We would all do well to remember that truth.

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Pat West 4 months ago

So mark, on this forum you belive everyone should htfu or not post. That's a nice statement for this community.

Keep in mind; At any time and at its sole discretion, WorldWest can remove any User-Generated Content (as defined below in the Intellectual Property Policy) that it deems objectionable, including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content that is racist, sexist, potentially libelous, defamatory, malicious, profane, copyright protected or otherwise containing third-party intellectual property, off-topic, disrespectful or threatening to other users, consists of inflammatory attacks of a personal nature, factually incorrect, used to identify users, incendiary to violence or other criminal activity or commercial advertisements. In addition to removing your objectionable User-Generated Content, WorldWest also may ban or suspend you from accessing the Website

Not that they enforce their own rules.

I think this forum could be a valuable place for everyone to exchange our opinions on local topics, not a fight club for bloggers. But I guess you and Worldwest see otherwise. Too bad for our community.

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Pat West 4 months ago

Urban Dictionary: htfu www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?te... Harden The F#%+Up Used to tell a weak person or persons that they have become far too weak, and to prevent further embarrasment to the human race,...

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Brian Kotowski 4 months ago

One of Obamacare's architects, Ezekiel Emanuel (socialist brother of socialist Rahm) predicts many tens of millions more Americans will lose their coverage. Of course, Ear Leader and his co-conspirators have 'insured' that the real pain won't be inflicted until after the next two elections.

Keep that sheeple suit cleaned and pressed, my fellow Americans. You wear it well!

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mark hartless 4 months ago

Pat,

Yes, I believe that most of this nation, not just this community, is way too soft. I think 85% or so of any given cross section of Amnerica is lazy, weak, and is PITTIFULLY IGNORANT of economics, of historical FACT, of the proper role of government, and of what a day's work really is.

Furthermore, I believe that FACT translates into a lot of votes for politicians who promise to plunder productive members of society (the "hardened" one's as you call us) in order to "spread the wealth" to cupcakes who euphamistically refer to themselves as "compassionate" while sending jack-booted gubbamint goons to plunder their fellow mans hard-earned and already over-taxed property.

However, neither my beliefs, nor my willingness to boldly explain, profess and defend them, preclude others from doing the same on this or any other blog.

If others so dread a painless, faceless toungue-lashing that they would rather sit quietly in the shadows than stand up for their beliefs, then they really don't hold those beliefs very tightly, do they??

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john bailey 4 months ago

interesting story line out of Colyfornia this a.m. 3 damocrats kicked out of the Senate. gee , I wonder what could have happened there ,Dan , any clue? this is what your party is all about 2 faced liers just like the one you idolize. pricless asswipe , ah I said it again , my bad....

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Ken Mauldin 4 months ago

I think it's great that Dan won't quit. Dan supported Obamacare and now he doesn't have insurance and can't get it. That, my friends, is known as KARMA and JUST DESERTS. He continues to adamantly support the same policy that led to his personal loss of coverage and personal hardship. As a bonus: He insists he's more enlightened than those who still have insurance. Draw your own conclusions.

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Brian Kotowski 4 months ago

I might buy the more enlightened jive if he knew how to spell 'fetish.' Has anyone ever seen Dan Shores and Dan Quayle in the same place at the same time?

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mark hartless 4 months ago

Isn't that sort of like the pollitical version of Stockholm Syndrome??

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

Yeah you're right Brian I did misspell "fetish".Yes, I committed a cardinal blogging sin, misspelling. Sorry, it's not a word that I often have occasion to use and I was in a hurry and didn't proof properly. Opened myself up again to personal attack didn't I. Of course, none of you have ever made a spelling error I'm quite sure. Wow, John actually posted something without a personal insult. Who woulda thought. So since you didn't insult me John, I'll keep to my word and not insult you. Let's see how long this lasts. Funny how not one of you right wingers have dared to utter one word of disapproval to John for his personal and rather crude insults directed at me, but instead criticize me for defending myself. Interesting "tribal" mentality. Oh, by the way the book is called "The Republican Brain" by Chris Mooney. Check it out. I guess we'll just pretend that all politicians are honest. Gee...I didn't realize that there were dishonest politicians on both sides of the aisle. And by the way Ken, I didn't lose my insurance because of the ACA. I never had insurance because of a pre-existing condition which is a very minor non-life threatening condition, but enough to make me ineligible for coverage. Now, because of the ACA, I could get insurance if I could afford it and it would be affordable if I didn't live in a mountain town. This was my original point that got so lost with all the outrage and personal attacks on me. I shall now "circle back" after all the distraction. Yes, the ACA is flawed and yes, I believe that every American has a "right" to access to "affordable health insurance". I realize that there are many different views on this topic. Some say, to bad if you have a pre-existing condition you're S.O.L., some say yes we need to make health insurance available to everyone but the ACA is not the way to do it. The fact is that the ACA is THE LAW. It's not going to be repealed unless a republican is elected President and that's not going to happen with the current republican attitude and rude behavior as evidenced by this forum. Even if the republicans win a majority in the Senate come November, and a bill could be passed in both houses to repeal the ACA the President would have to sign it and you know that is never going to happen. So once again I say, quit the constant complaining and blame game, quit trying to sabotage the legislation and work to make it better. Republicans could for instance introduce bills to improve the ACA. Lastly thanks Pat West, I couldn't agree more and I wish Worldwest would be more diligent in removing those who choose to be profane and disrespectful.

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

Steve, you're very lucky your pre-existing condition didn't disqualify you. I wish that had been the case for me. Earlier on they would write a policy but exclude this "condition" from coverage. Eventually they just said no thanks. Yes, I am paying the fine. I wish the Pilot would do some investigating and residents would band together and protest to the state insurance commission. And again yes, I don't mind at all having my tax dollars go to help other Americans. I actually feel kind of good about that. What I don't like is my tax dollars going to fund immoral wars of choice, or to subsidize big oil, or to pay congress members to hold 50 or 51 votes or whatever it is to repeal the ACA, or a host of other wasteful endeavors. I would also like to apologize in advance for any spelling errors or grammar errors. I am sure you will all be very quick and not surprisingly petty, to point them out to me. Oh and by the way, have you gotten any of your free stuff? I was told that Obama won his re-election by promising a bunch of free stuff but I haven't received any of mine. Must be some mixup at the post office. What do ya think?

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Brian Kotowski 4 months ago

An interesting feddish [sic], to be sure. Interesting too, that the "feddish [sic]" remark, wherein Mr. Shores insinuates that another poster here must be gay (because that's the kind of sophomoric ad hominem taunting the left regards as Enlightened) has been nuked by the Pilot as a policy violation, whilst Mr. Shores goes on to wail about the iniquity of posting a "personal attack."

Hypocrite much, Mr. Shores?

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

Your welcome! Actually I am better off because I could actually get insurance at fully half the price that was offered by the State of Colorado before the ACA. We just have to work on the pricing thing. You can also call me, in some respects, a socialist. I agree. I think that capitalism is great but not the entire answer. It's sort of like skiing in a way. You have the two extremes in order to guide a snow ski, all edging on one side, all steering at the other end. The truly efficient and skilled athlete is able to mix, or blend these two extremes in order to achieve the desired result for any given situation. On the race course, it's almost pure edging, bumps and trees, almost pure steering. There you got a free ski tip as well. I see no problem with applying this same reasoning to economic theory. In some cases a mix of socialism and capitalism may be best. Oh and Brian, what's a "sheeple"?

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

Yeah Brian, that was a really funny joke you made, you know the one about me and Dan Quayle. Shows some real creativity and originality there. You ever think about goin pro with comedy writing? I think you got some real talent. Sorry about the fetish thing, but he was gettin a little creepy with his fascination with my anatomy. And like it or not I will defend myself from vulgar personal attacks, so probably you all would do best to refrain from that sort of thing if you're offended when I respond in kind. Oh and Steve I don't mind you addressing me as comrade. I know how in love you right wingers are with Vlady these days. It's all over Fox News. They're praising him right and left for his manliness. You know wrestling bears, riding horseback bare chested and all. They're sayin how he is showing real leadership and how he is a leader who knows how to get what he wants. Obama, shoot he may be a lawless tyrant, but he is a weak and indecisive lawless tyrant dictator. He should take some lessons from Vlady.

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Brian Kotowski 4 months ago

Unlike you, Dan, I don't moan and complain if a conversation gets acerbic. I'm a big lad and can handle any pitch you have, including the vaseline covered spitballs. You're the one playing hall monitor while engaging in precisely the same behavior you condemn in others. And you justify your hypocrisy with the most juvenile 'bbbut he started it' jive I've ever heard beyond the boundaries of a 3rd grade playground. So not only are you a simpering hypocrite of the first magnitude, you're a whiny and childish one too.

Now that's a personal attack, in case you were wondering,

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Dan Kuechenmeister 4 months ago

so said Abraham Lincoln “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”

so said George Santayana “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

so said Ayn Rand "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

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Dan Shores 4 months ago

See ya at the next controversial topic. Wonder if you boys can stay on topic or if your argument is so weak that you can only resort to personal attack. And I'm the one who is being childish. You right wing paranoid freaks are a total joke and a disgrace to brave men and women throughout this great nation. Hey Brian, what's a sheeple big man?

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Ken Mauldin 4 months ago

Dan,

You're the only one who posted a personal attack on this thread so offensive and inappropriate that it was removed by the moderator.

Nice try blaming others. That's very progressive of you!

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john bailey 4 months ago

they did , didn't they ? I'm still waiting for my wife to quit laughing so she can answer that question.....

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john bailey 4 months ago

ah Dan , hows my little Richard Cranium doing today? you don't want you bowl of eat xit today or you wanna save it for another topic ? when you do eat it , eat it slowly , the ACA might not cover it if you choke on it. still sniveling as I see from your last few posts . keep it coming the beat downs will continue till morale improves. I guess you need to be educated constantly , you did not know about pizza and FF now sheeple ? sheeple is following blindly ,:ie those that voted for this idiot in chief you put in our White House without a care of the damage being done to this country.

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rhys jones 4 months ago

Good morning!! I see everybody woke up swinging roundhouses. Still waiting for a couple of others to weigh in. Have a great day at the forums!! I'll check in later...

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Chris Hadlock 4 months ago

Good morning Rhys,

Yes, the two sides cannot resist throwing those roundhouse punches that never seem to land. Kind of like the old slapstick comedy of the Three Stooges.

Funny thing is both sides seem to be missing out on the fact that the middle is increasingly tired of their old antics. It is time for the voters to change the rules in Washington as our elected officials cannot see beyond their own checkbooks.

  1. Campaign Finance - as in take it all away.
  2. Term Limits - Kick em' all out.
  3. Unified Primaries so the middle can have a louder voice than the extremes.

Who will answer the call, change cannot come from Washington, it has to start right here at the local level

"As a member or supporter of the Coffee Party, I pledge to conduct myself in a way that is civil, honest, and respectful toward people with whom I disagree. I value people from different cultures, I value people with different ideas, and I value and cherish the democratic process."

http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/civility_pledge

I have signed it, will you?

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Ken Mauldin 4 months ago

Chris,

Thanks for joining the conversation. The Coffee Party Civility Code sounds just like an Oath of Political Correctness. Who gets to determine how 'civility' will be defined?

Not being so constrained is the ENTIRE POINT of the Free Expression Clause of the First Amendment. Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Hamilton, et al would laugh at the suggestion that we should not apply ridicule and satire to support a political argument. Literally, they would mock and laugh at that suggestion.

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Brian Kotowski 4 months ago

The Coffee Party is an anemic 'me too' attempt to ride the groundswell of activism that became the Tea Party. Founded by liberal Obama volunteer Annabel Park, who wailed (with a straight face) that the media was too supportive of the Tea Party. I believe it was Goebbels who famously asserted the utility of lying - when proclaimed loud enough and long enough, the sheeple will accept it as truth.

Here's Ms. Park & company a few years ago, gathered together for a mutual back rub. I'm especially impressed with the dude who says he's there for "empathy, collective consciousness, and progress." I suspect he would have been equally at home with these clowns.

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mark hartless 4 months ago

"...value and cherish the democratic process..." ???

Rape gangs and lynch mobs cherish the democratic process too...

the same "cherished process" that has brought us to this place...

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