Letter to the editor: Right thing to do

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Immunizations are one of the easiest ways that we can protect ourselves, our families and our communities from deadly diseases. The vaccines that are offered today prevent the deaths of an estimated 42,000 children each year in the United States. Yet, some preventable diseases — whooping cough, for example — have been making a comeback because some children are not vaccinated and also because some adults have not gotten their Tdap booster.

More and more parents request to delay or decline vaccination of their children. This may be a result of celebrities claiming vaccines harmed their children, of poor science and alternative vaccine schedules being promoted in books and by special advocacy groups, and most assuredly it is a result of the increased number of vaccines and injections now recommended for infants and children in recent years.

The health care providers in Routt and Moffat counties want to affirm our position on the recommended vaccines in the U.S.:

■ We firmly believe in the effectiveness of vaccines to prevent serious illness and to save lives.

■ We firmly believe in the safety of vaccines.

■ We firmly believe that all children and young adults should receive all of the recommended vaccines according to the schedule published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

■ We firmly believe, based on all available literature, evidence and current studies, that vaccines do not cause autism or other developmental disabilities.

■ We firmly believe that thimerosal, a preservative that has been in vaccines for decades and remains in a few vaccines (some multidose vials), does not cause autism or other developmental disabilities.

■ We firmly believe that vaccinating children and young adults may be the single most important health-promoting intervention we perform as health care providers.

The recommended vaccines and the recommended U.S. schedule are the results of years of scientific study and data gathered on millions of children by thousands of our brightest scientists and physicians. Delaying or refusing vaccination of children may put your child and other children at risk for serious illness, even death. Talk to your health care provider to learn which immunizations you need to protect yourself and your children.

Linda Casner, NP-C; Jim Dudley, MD; Ronald F. Famiglietti, MD; Phaedra Fegley, MD; Dana Fitzgerald, MD; Millie Flanigan, PA-C; Neilene Folks, PA-C; Sheila Fountain, MD; Bill Geserick, MD; Lisa Harner, MD; Brian Harrington, MD, MPH; Diana Hornung, MD; Andrew G. Hughes, MD; Rosanne Iversen, MD; Frances Jenkins, PA-C; Dennis Kinder, MD; Larry Kipe, MD; Anna Lundeen, MD; Joel Miller, DO; Laura Mordi, MD; David Niedermeier, MD; Troy Phillips, MD; Cinde Porter, PA-C; Bridget M. Ross, PA; Steven A. Ross, MD, FAAP; Daniel Smilkstein, MD; Louise Thielen, MD; Tracey Wall, PA-C; David Williams, MD

Comments

freerider 2 years, 7 months ago

here's a little article you might have missed 68 deaths from Gardasil

this report is from the CDC

It's an HPV VACCINATION !!!! HELLO Save your daughter do not take the KOOL AID !!

there have been over 1500 cases of paralysis worldwide from this as well

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/gardasil.html

that would be DEATH FROM VACCINATIONS HELLO !!!!

I believe you're full of lies and deceit I believe you profit from death I believe you serve big pharma I believe you don't know what you're talking about

this is the same establishment that tells you pharmaceutical meds are safe yet they kill over 150 thousand people a year

and they like to tell you that marijuana causes psychosis and is a dangerous drug

consider the source here and follow the money ,

It's been proven that a shot of vitamin D3 is better for you than a flu shot , we just don't get enough natural sunlight in the winter it's a no brainer for people with brains

The lab techs at Merck won't take A FLU shot , what does that tell you

They put glycol in a flu shot a s well , that's the stuff that kills your pets

Listen folks don't shoot the messenger research it for yourself

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

The AMA's poisons killed my brother. The medical profession WANTS you to get sick and die. It's called job security.

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sashas 2 years, 7 months ago

Thank you guys. I am so glad to see some fellow vaccine opposers. I've been researching this topic for a couple years now--since I found out I was pregnant. My son is now 15 months and is never sick. The entire topic of vaccines is so disgusting to me. Yes, follow the money. And yes, take your vitamin D. My family does, and none of us gets sick. Pharmaceuticals fund med schools. Pharmaceuticals are with med students from day one. I don't understand how people are so oblivious to the vaccine scandal (not to mention all the other corruption). Open your eyes, people. Just do a little research. Once you start, you will find so many links and disgusts. Every day, I find a new one. I could leave so much information on why I oppose vaccines, it's truly unbelievable. And the autism thing. Why is it that people don't believe it when parents say their child went into an autistic state immediately following a vaccine? You say there's no link? Why? Because our corrrupt governmental organizations tell you there's no link? What about kids dying of SIDS immediately following vaccines? What about my aunt who aborted her baby immediately after a flu vaccine? And you know, when my husband was in nursing school, he was the ONLY class member who wouldn't get the flu shot. That scares me that all those nurses are going into the field oblivious. I'll stop for now. My son is so healthy compared to all the vaccinated kids these days. It just must be a fluke. It could also be the fact that he doesn't drink the fluoridated water of Steamboat Springs and stays away from processed foods.

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sashas 2 years, 7 months ago

Rhys,

If you don't mind me asking, what was it that killed your brother. I'm sorry; it's truly sad and unfortunate.

Sasha

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

We firmly believe that all of the doctors that put their names on this article are completely out of touch with reality and are so full of hubris that they are willing to harm children with unproven tobacco science funded by big pharma and promoted by people that stand to profit. All you doctors have done is to put your name and reputation on the line for a lie that you believe in. Just because you believe something to be true does not make it so. Remember this one; "4 out of 5 doctors smoke viceroy!". That wasn't too long ago. It is dispicable to ignore so many parents with autistic children that are whole-heartedly convinced that their child was damaged by vaccines. You may think you are doing the right thing, but the truth will come out someday and you will see that what you have done is participate in a huge experiment in which the lies you believe so strongly harmed innocent little minds via your vaccine agenda. You are loosing credibility with the people not because people are ignorant and listen to celebrities with autistic children, but because what you are selling is hurting our children and informed parents are seeking out the information that you all are so reluctant to delve into. I have personally written down all of your names and will never refer any of you to anyone due to your callous comments regarding this issue and your blatent ignorance. I am disgusted.

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exduffer 2 years, 7 months ago

VAERS data cannot be used to prove a causal association between the vaccine and the adverse event. The only association between the adverse event and vaccination is temporal, meaning that the adverse event occurred sometime after vaccination. Therefore, the adverse event may be coincidental or it may have been caused by vaccination, however we cannot make any conclusions that the events reported to VAERS were caused by the vaccine. Nuff said.

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

sashas -- Liver cancer, age 48. Prescription antihistamines and decongestants; in retrospect I'll bet he would've taken the sniffles. Once you enter the doctor's office you become a statistic, a subject in an ongoing experiment as doctors play God, which each thinks he (or she) is. Nobody thought to call all the doctors on all Dave's prescription bottles and tell them this experiment failed. Drugs are like shotguns -- they may hit the intended target, but what else do they get? The AMA and its honorable members don't make any money off healthy people, and I wouldn't put it past 'em planting cancer in the whole damn populace, or whoever they choose, and that is only partially facetious. Pardon that last paranoid outburst; suffice it to say I stay away from doctors at all costs, and go to RMR for my meds. If the AMA will plant outside agitators passing as "Doctor" to bully the county away from the best natural cure for many ailments available, what else will they do, to assure a steady income? Not with my body, thank you!! They can have this miracle AFTER it's dead.

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

"adverse event may be coincidental" sounds like AMA BS to me. "adverse event," "procedure," you doctors make everything sound so clean, clinical, and detached. Does not "we cannot rule out that our vaccine causes autism" say the same thing, only now in a different light?

The hotel I worked in one winter offered to buy our flu shots, which I politely refused. I heard folks coughing and sneezing all winter long, never caught a sniffle. To voluntarily introduce a virus into your body doesn't make a lot of sense, to this ol' country boy.

I'm just sorry that anybody ever has to go to a doctor in the first place. And not to take away anything from the ER docs, orthopaedic surgeons, and other doctors who truly help people. There is another segment of that industry, however... and don't get any more shots, or take any more pills, or see any more doctors, than you absolutely have to. Not if you want to stay healthy.

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Jeff Kibler 2 years, 7 months ago

I don't think you can broadly deny the efficacy of vaccines. But perhaps we've reached a tipping point, where we're overusing vaccines much as we've overused antibiotics. I know that a friend's Dad, who is suffering from post-polio syndrome, wishes that the polio vaccine was available when he was a kid. After seeing what my Dad went through with shingles, the first thing I'm doing when I hit 60 is to get a shingles vaccine. There are trade-offs and risks either way you go.

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

Jeff -- You're right, I'm subject to shingles too, and that is one I will probably get, sooner than later. Polio wasn't quite eradicated when I was born, so I got that, plus DPT and others; I felt like a pincushion before the Marines sent me to Japan. Got a tetanus booster prior to my colonoscopy this spring. All I'm saying is, pick and choose wisely, knowing the risks and weighing the pros and cons, and I hope that shingles shot has no ill or permanent side effects. Only what's necessary.

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Jeff Kibler 2 years, 7 months ago

A tetanus shot prior to a colonoscopy? I was unaware that rusty nails could be that invasive!

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sashas 2 years, 7 months ago

Before I go further in depth about the other comments, I must say that I'd be more worried about the doctor doing the colonoscopy than having a tetanus shot prior. I mean skip the tetanus and worry about the colonoscopy. My healthy Grandpa died last year of sepsis because of a colonoscopy gone bad. Later research found my friend's husband and another friend's grandpa died of the same thing. After talking to an anesthesiologist, he said that due to the fact that the Government has been recommending so many colonoscopies, experts no longer do them and designate them to other doctors with little or no experience of the procedure. This causes the problems and even death. What disturbs me is that my Grandpa called the doctor many times with issues after the procedure. They just said he must be sick. You'd think that they would've put 2 & 2 together and realized it was a colonoscopy gone bad rather than an episode of the flu. Now my poor Grandpa is DEAD! And he was going to come out to Steamboat one month after his death to visit my son. Instead, his visit resulted in me using his plane tickets to go back to WI for his funeral! He'd dammmmmnnn well still be alive. He was totally healthy. . .golfing, bowling, traveling, etc. and his only wishes were to see his great-grandson before he died. I would have never thought that wouldn't happen, but it did. We all need to look into things prior to procedures, pokes, or whatever the situation may be. I'm going to bed and will post more tomorrow. Good night.

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sashas 2 years, 7 months ago

Okay before bed, I must comment to exduffer. While I will further comment on your VAERS comment, I want to reveal the vaccine court. If these so called adverse reactions don't occur then why between 1990 and August 2007, did 4,421 cases of people who were injured by a vaccine were heard by the appointed judges, referred to as Special Masters, presiding over a civil district court commonly referred to as the Vaccine Court? More than $1 billion has been paid to vaccine-injured victims and only 20 percent of persons who apply receive compensation and, all cases involving autism have been dismissed without compensation for injuries sustained from vaccinations. If there is a vaccine court, there obviously can be some horrific complications related to vaccines.

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Jeff Kibler 2 years, 7 months ago

Sorry, Sasha. I'm not looking forward to a colonoscopy or any other medical procedure. Many of our elderly parents and grandparents thought of physicians as gods. Hopefully their children have developed a healthy skepticism. Physicians are service providers, that's the bottom line. Caveat emptor. Especially when you go in for a surgical procedure. If it's not an emergency, ask a lot of questions beforehand. Get infection rates, for the hospital and surgeons. If they won't provide the data, seek care elsewhere. Investigate the surgeon(s) and the anesthesiologist. Improper anesthesia can kill you just as easily as a nicked artery.

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

I thought I was dying of colo-rectal cancer, made my peace with my Maker, and got ready to party my way out. But DAMN, it was benign, and now I'll have to revert to Plan A, apparently being stuck on this rock for many more years.

I was getting fresh blood in my stool every morning, was somewhat concerned about a reduced diameter of -- product -- fearing a blockage, truth be known. It turned out to be just a bleeding hemorrhoid and they removed a couple of pre-cancerous polyps. This was done at the VA hospital in Phoenix, a monument to our veterans most people never see. Even I was humbled. Some of those old guys will never get out of that building. One can only imagine the horrors they saw. I felt the ghosts, in the huge corridors. And I digress.

The staff was marvelous, physicians young, and competent, preparing for a real practice. I asked if I could watch the "procedure" on TV the doctor would watch, so they reduced my anesthesia to demerol, which was not the fun I had heard, but at least made the invasion tolerable. In the meantime the show was FASCINATING, not at all what I might envision; that thing's pretty cool!!

I did it as corrective maintenance, not preventative. Only what's necessary.

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mtroach 2 years, 7 months ago

Rhys: Really too much information for an internet forum

All: In a strick for-profit health care system is it any suprise that their is so much distrust of those paid to provide this service. Remove the capitalists from manageing our health and we will all be better off.

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

I felt my judgment was in question, so I thought I would justify my actions while couching the symptoms in nearly-medical euphemisms. Sorry.

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Jeff Kibler 2 years, 7 months ago

At least you received some care from a VA hospital. Veterans that I know have been denied care for all sorts of exceptions. We could list ad naseum the denials from Agent Orange to PTSD. If I had a million dollars, I'd put it towards the care of our veterans. Most of them have sacrificed so much, yet ended up with broken promises, and a huge lack of appreciation.

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the_Lizard 2 years, 7 months ago

Think about this sashas, your children and your family are healthy without the benefit of vacciination because many of the horrific diseases of previous generations have been virtually elimated through the use of vaccines. So, you can choose the personal freedom of no vaccinations, it's your choice, but remmber; you can be this cavalier about the prevention of disease precisely because of vaccines. BTW my suggestion would be to never travel to parts of Africa or Asia.

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

Dear Lizard person: It is a common myth that has been perpetrated by the vaccine industry that vaccines have eradicated diseases. The reason that so many die in third world countries from disease is not because they were not vaccinated but because of their living conditions. The entire basis for vaccines is the beliefe that injecting small denatured virusus or bacteria into a healthy person will excite the immune response, and that the body will now be able to recognize the foreign agent. While this may or may not work the risks far outway the benefit when now one in 40 boys is diagnosed with autism in our country and virtually no healthy children die from measels, mumps or chicken pox. In fact, you would not be here today if these diseases are so deadly, because your parents had them, then acquired lifelong immunity from them, and your mother passed a portion of this immunity on to you when you were born. If you are vaccinated, this does not give you lifelong immunity, and the crap in the vaccine (like monkey kidneys, polysorbate 80, mercury, aluminum, chicken embryos, and lots of other nasties) causes an excited immune response which can lead to gastrointestinal problems, brain swelling, autism, asthma, allergies, seizures, brain damage, and death. .

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

Cont. for Lizard person: If you are not aware of the great father of vaccines, Jenner, in which MD's bow before him for his great contributions to society, I will enlighten you on his nature. Mr. Jenner took puss from a milkmaids infected postule from cowpox and injected that puss into a healthy 8 year old boy without his knowledge or parental consent, and he did this over 20 times. Then Jenner took puss from a sick and dying man infected with small pox, and injected that puss into the healthy 8 year old boy in hopes that the boy would survive. If Jenner had done that today he would be labeled a monster and sent to jail. The boy that Jenner experimented with died at the ripe old age of 21 due to TB, as did many of the people injected with the Jenner vaccine. There are many scientists that now believe that Jenners vaccine actually infected healthy people with TB due to the unsanitary methods employed at the time. You have to understand that the vaccine industry is big money for big pharma, which brings in over 30 billion dollars annually. They have an agenda, and it is not to save lives, but to make money. All of the studies the so called "experts" proclaim are done by the pharmaceutical company, for the pharmaceutical company, and those performing these "studies" have huge financial ties to the approval of the vaccines and enormous conflicts of interest. Look up Dr. Paul Offit for a brief primer on how thick these conflicts are, and the huge financial gains available for these monsters. Lets take the Hepatitis B shot for example, which is given to babies minutes to hours old. Hep. B is only trasmitted via unprotected sex, body fluids in the eyes or mouth from an infected person or a dirty needle stick. The vaccine only protects for 10 years, at which point a booster is required. The doctor who pushes the shot makes a few hundred bucks by giving it, and on the insert are a list of side effects which range from stroke, seizure and death. The chances of a newborn contracting Hep B are 0.0001%, and the chances of a newborn having a reaction to the vaccine is unknown because there is no reliable system in place to track adverse reactions to vaccines. Risk versus benefit, and money for the doctor and big pharma at the expense of a childs health. That is what is going on here, and these doctors hide behind an assuring smile when in truth they are ignorant slaves to big pharma. The first thing they are taught in med school is to do no harm, and they break that oath every time they give a vaccine; the right thing to do my tailbone.

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rhys jones 2 years, 7 months ago

It seems the esteemed Dr. Victory would weigh in here, this subject being of true value to the community, and she being so educated about pharmaceuticals. How about it, Doc, or are you only being paid to rail on pot?

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sashas 2 years, 7 months ago

Mr. Roark, You summed it up nicely for me in response to Lizard Man. I just want to state one thing in regards to Lizard's comment. I know a lot of kids my son's age, and they all have some issue or another. They may not all be major issues, but they do have some, whether being sick regularly, allergies, asthma, constant spit up/puking, and the worst, gastrointestinal problems. All these could be attributed to vaccines, whether proven or not. And why isn't it required for a double-blind placebo-controlled study of a vaccine to be done prior to entrance in the market?

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the_Lizard 2 years, 7 months ago

Too funny, the only reason we don't have polio, small pox or pertusis in the US is because of living conditions? Is that what you are telling me, Mr. Roark person? Doctors are "ignorant slaves" they no nothing of disease, nor complications and prevention of disease. They are owned by big pharm...blah blah blah. (conspiracy rant...) I don't really care if you choose not to vaccinate your kids against life threatening or debilitating diseases, (like mumps and the hard measles as well as small pox e tal) that 's your choice, We chose to immunize, our uber healthy kids although we don't get flu shots,nor will we allow our daughter to get the Gardasil vaccine until she is older. Uneccesary, IMO Also, I want to explore this great big world, and to do so, I'm gonna have to be immunized. You just sit there in your sterile little world, and keep believing the real enemy is Docs and medicine.

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bubba 2 years, 7 months ago

I know this will come across as simply baiting the conversation, but it is a legitimate question: can any of the anti-vaccination crowd point me towards some reading about the risks and drawbacks of vaccines? I am trying to get the full picture before I make a decision about my son, and I have had a hard time finding any information that seems remotely scientific as to the drawbacks. I'd like to make an educated decision, but in seeking out information on the threats, all I can find online seem to be rants by people without basic spelling and grammar skills, which in my mind makes their qualifications suspect at best. There certainly seem to be lots of people who claim to 'know' all about the risks of vaccines, but I have been unable to find any credible information about the danger?

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freerider 2 years, 7 months ago

bubba

look at the vaccine or any drug for that matter and research the side effects

I was given Cipro flaxen for an infection many years ago and it ruptured a tendon in my leg

I was lucky and I got off the stuff and now I always research alternatives first .. what your doctor gives you can kill you , they justify it all by saying , but look at how many people benefit from it

here's a link for you

http://vaccines.mercola.com/?PageIndex=2

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Phoebe Hackman 2 years, 7 months ago

bubba: I don't envy you having to make the decision whether or not to vaccinate your child in this day and age. There are so many more vaccinations available now and so much conflicting information. Whether someone is pro or anti vaccination, there's always something on the internet to back up their position. Case in point ... the link provided by freerider. It is the website of Joseph Mercola, an osteopath/author/entrepreneur. He uses misinformation and scare tactics to hawk his wares. Any information on his website is designed to support his agenda, which is to sell various alternative health products. Some of the products are beneficial, some are controversial, some have side effects ... just like drugs and vaccines. Doesn't mean Dr. Mercola is right or wrong, it just means he can't be objective. He has a business to run and money to make.

No doubt you are aware of the study by Dr. Andrew Wakefield linking vaccinations to autism. Dr. Wakefield was stripped of his medical license for deliberately falsifying data in this study to prove his theory. The study, by way, consisted of only 12 patients. But it was sensational news in 1998 and the media ran with it. Vaccinations dropped and cases of measles increased. It's a story that just won't go away.

There may be some objective, scientific research somewhere, but, like you, I haven't been able to find it. I only know that I was vaccinated, my children were vaccinated, all my friends and their children were vaccinated, and I have never heard of one single adverse effect. Maybe we were just lucky. I can only offer this: Read everything you can and always consider the source, consider your own family history, consider the likelihood of your child being exposed to whatever disease the vaccine du jour is for, consider having your child tested to determine if he is predisposed to autism, epilepsy, etc. before vaccinating. Then make the best decision you can and, whatever you decide, don't let anyone try to tell you you're wrong.

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blue_spruce 2 years, 7 months ago

I don't think that you can quote Dr. Mercola as a legitimate source.....i mean, that guy way out there man!

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megwidmer 2 years, 7 months ago

Please post a scientific, double blind study that shows definitive evidence linking today's current vaccines to the deaths, miscarriages, autism, and other adverse events that you all speak of in your comments. Meg Widmer, a registered nurse who has vaccinated her child and plans to continue with the current recommended schedule.

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

Megwidmer: Why is there no double blind study done with vaccinated children vs unvaccinated children? Certainly one would think a study of this nature would have been done by now, but there has not been one. How about this one, since you are an RN; find a study that supports vaccinations that was not funded by big pharma by people that do not stand to profit. I can't find one. I do know that big pharma has created it's own vaccine courts, and that if you are damaged by a vaccine you legally have no right to sue them. In short, if you give your child a vaccine and he/she dies from that vaccine an hour later, then you have no legal standing as the vaccine industry has been given immunity by our own legal system. Don't believe me? Look it up! How about the Simpsonwood meeting transcripts where the heads of the CDC, WHO and vaccine manufactureres openly admit that vaccines cause autism and encephalopothy. Don't believe me; look it up! What about the independent journalist that did a piece comparing Amish unvaccinated children and incidence of autism vs vaccinated children and found that autism was not an issue with the Amish, except for the 4 children out of hundreds that had it; 3 of them were vaccinated as they were adopted and the fourth lived near a power plant.

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Scott Wedel 2 years, 7 months ago

Actually, there are now enough dummies that refuse vaccinations that the mumps and other diseases that were uncommon have now made a comeback. So the risk of unvaccinated getting these diseases is much higher than a few years ago. So now even if you believe the unproven medical claims of harm from the vaccine then it is still a lower risk that he risk of getting the mumps or the other avoidable disease.

If autism rates of 1 in 40 boys was due to vaccines then there would be dramatically lower rates for those that didn't get vaccinated. No such distinction exists.

What did happen is the British Medical Association found severe research FRAUD by the doctor that claimed a link between vaccines and autism. Issues such as modifying data so that a kid with signs of autism prior to vaccination was claimed to have no prior indications of autism and so on. They actually revoked his medical license so he moved to the US to make money as a speaker spreading his false claims.

The real victims in all this are the kids that for whatever medical reason cannot be vaccinated. A few years ago they were reasonably safe. Now they are getting the mumps and such and dying. These phantom fears of vaccinations has killed innocent children and is absolutely disgraceful.

The only reasonable decision regarding vaccines that a parent needs to make is what vaccination program (combos or individual) is more convenient. Any risks of the vaccine is overwhelmed by the risks of getting the avoidable diseases especially now with so many others without vaccinations.

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

@ Lizard person: Yes, that is what I am telling you; Polio was on it's way out BEFORE the vaccine was introduced. Many scientists and doctors have done a lot of research regarding this fact. The vaccine industry lies to you today, they will lie to you tomorrow, and they lied to you way back when. They write all of the books our Dr.s and nurses learn from, so it is easy for them to perpetuate the lie. They fund all of the studies and those scientists performing the studies have huge conflicts of interest regarding the results and their financial status. I have already traveled the world without vaccinations, so your idea about me living in a sterile bubble is not accurate. I do not believe Dr.s are the enemy, but their hubris and reluctance to look into readily available information and anecdotal evidence is disconcerning. As long as vaccination is a choice, then you go right ahead and vaccinate till your hearts content, but let me make this clear: The day that you advocate forced vaccination on people is the day you start a civil war, and those you wish to impose your draconian measures for the benefit of "herd immunity" is the day that those in favor of human rights and choice will rise up and smite you.

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

To Bubba: A great resource equipped with an extensive bibliography concerning vaccines is a book called "Saying no to vaccines" by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. Here is a link to a video of testimonials by pediatricians and parents regarding vaccinations that is a real eye opener; I wish you luck in your decision as it is a difficult one. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m_1X_...

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

@ Scott_Wedel: Calling people that refuse vaccinations "dummies" is not a productive way of discussion. I think that you will find nearly all of the anti-vaccine persosn well informed and well educated. You have a very callous perception of this very complex and heated issue, and all you are doing is regurgitating the same lies told to you by big pharma via the TV, which is clearly funded by big pharma as evidenced by the many commercials promoting big pharmas drugs. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and it appears that you are the "dummy" here.

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megwidmer 2 years, 7 months ago

Howard- your citation of the Amish having no evidence of autism is very interesting, but I would wonder if there is a genetic component involved. There is much we do not know about autism and it's causes- I would be very curious to study that population and factor in their genetic makeup and their environment, including but not limited to, lack of vaccinations, diet, and lifestyle.

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

@ megwidmer: It would be great if there were a double blind study involving vaccinated vs unvaccinated children, and their incidences of autism, GI disorders, allergies and asthma, but sadly no study exists. The genetic mantra is an interesting one, but I think it would be easier to do a double blind study. The things that concern me are that the vaccine industry has immunity if your child is vaccine damaged. Why is that? The US Gov. has recently been caught paying millions in hush money to famalies of vaccine injured children; look up the Anna Polling case.

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bubba 2 years, 7 months ago

Thanks to those who responded to my question, there is some food for thought there. I recognize that there have been no double-blind studies performed in the US on the safeness of vaccines recently due to the notion that it would be unethical to administer a placebo to some children, leaving them susceptible to disease that they believe they have been immunized to.

While the lack of studies on that front is somewhat troubling, it also seems that if there were quantifiable risks, someone would have published a comparison of the rates of the conditions purportedly caused by vaccines in the US vs other developed countries with different vaccination policies. Is anyone aware of an analysis along those lines?

I understand that the medical and pharmaceutical industries are for-profit, but I reject the notion that this implies that the millions of people involved in them are somehow evil-doers that would intentionally put the nation's children in harm's way for a few extra dollars. For that matter, the above referenced Drs Mercola and Tenpenny have both made careers of selling anti-vaccine products and opinions, so they have a much more direct financial interest in their product than a local pediatrician does in a vaccine. I do not mean to question the integrity of these doctors, but we can't use a double standard, and somehow a scientific study printed in a journal of medicine seems to be inherently more credible than a book sold (for $39!) on the author's website.

I will see if I can find a used copy of Dr Tenpenny's book to read, and see how the bibliography looks - any other recommendations?

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

@ Bubba: The argument that it is unethical to conduct a blind study with vaccinated vs vaccinated is like putting the cart before the horse. It is not hard to find unvaccinated children today, and it would not be difficult to conduct this study in any town in our country. To infer that not vaccinating children puts them at risk whilst the entire jist of the study would be to prove or disprove damage by vaccines is an absurd argument. I did not imply that there are millions of evil doers in the medical community, rather misinformed professionals that have a cognitive dissonance regarding this subject via propogandasts within the pharmaceutical company. If you want to look into not-for-profit testimonials by doctors and parents regarding vaccines here is a link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m_1X_... There is a lot of information out there, and it takes a lot of time to come to a personal choice regarding this issue. The key here is that it is a personal choice and that it remains as such, always.

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Phoebe Hackman 2 years, 7 months ago

First, it is a myth that the Amish do not vaccinate. Nearly 85% of Amish surveyed accept some form of immunization for their children. http://autism-news-beat.com/archives/29 That there is a lower incidence of autism among the Amish is more likely due to the fact that they are genetically isolated, do not live in or near the pollution created by larger cities and grow much of their own food. It is also interesting to note that the Amish had significant outbreaks of rubella in various communities in the '90s. Since most of them began immunizing their children, rubella is nearly non-existent. Hmmm.

Howard: You haven't travelled "the world". Many foreign countries require immunizations if you want to cross their borders. I don't find the anti-vaccine people to be well-informed or well-educated at all. I find that they regurgitate anecdotal stories as fact and rarely look any further. Dr. Sherri Tenpenny ... she's another osteopath who makes a better living selling alternative health products than practicing medicine. "Polio was on it's way out BEFORE the vaccine was introduced." Source, please.

I find it quite humorous that so many of the anti-vaccination group like to vilify the medical industry ... until some report comes out confirming their fears by someone with "Dr." in front of their name. Millions of people have been vaccinated. A relatively small percentage experience some condition or other after receiving immunizations. The two may or may not be related. There is simply no evidence.

I do have one warning to pass on to everyone, however. I have not had so much as a cold in over 15 years, EXCEPT ... one mother of a cold after attending Christmas mass one year. I hadn't been in a church in eons and haven't been in one since. To me, that's absolute proof that organized religion can make one ill and I plan to stay away from it.

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freerider 2 years, 7 months ago

Phoebe

The Mercola website , yes he is in business , he has the right to make a living , it's called feeding your family , seems you are jealous of his success

He interviews a lot of people in the business of making vaccines , he is not the one making the accusations , he is merely the messenger and if people don't like the message the first line of defense is to shoot the messenger

I found his site to be very credible along with people like Gary Null , they promote healthy living , vitamin d3 , probiotics , exercise tips , stay away from sugar and fructose .. etc . etc . most of his advice is free , free , free and he offers products for sale , well so what the advice is still good

I don't buy anything from him , but what he has to say is worth listening to and it's free

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freerider 2 years, 7 months ago

Phoebe

I'm with ya on organized religion , funny post ,

FYI my kids are not vaccinated , they are now healthy teenagers and will more than likely get sports scholarships

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bubba 2 years, 7 months ago

Maybe I am wrong, it has been a long time since I took science, but wouldn't comparing data on vaccinated children and children who's parents opt out of vaccination NOT be a blind study, in that the members of each group know which group they are in, and have knowingly chosen to be in that group?

I did not make the inference that these studies do not exist because of the ethical issue, but have read that this is the reason why. I find it troubling, you find it absurd, but there seems to be a consensus in the medical community. And my comments about the millions of evil doers was a response to another poster, not you.

I am not trying to take a side on this, I am really just trying to educate myself (and quickly at that). The point that the pharmaceutical companies pay for the studies does not concern me, as that is the case with all medicine - the FDA does not pay for studies, they require pharmaceutical companies to pay for them, so this is not unique to vaccines. It might allow for the appearance of a conflict of interest, but cannot be discounted because of that, unless we are to throw out all medical research paid for by those who stand to make a profit, which is to say all medical research.

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Phoebe Hackman 2 years, 7 months ago

Just a thought ... I don't think there ever CAN be a definitive, double-blind study on vaccinations, as that would require experimenting on children, right? And if you think things are heated NOW ........

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bubba 2 years, 7 months ago

Mr Roark, perhaps my comment WAS directed at you, when you said:

'We firmly believe that all of the doctors that put their names on this article are completely out of touch with reality and are so full of hubris that they are willing to harm children with unproven tobacco science funded by big pharma and promoted by people that stand to profit.'

I guess I equate a willingness to harm children with evil.

As I said, I will not discount research simply because the entity funding it stands to make a profit, which goes for Drs Mercola and Tenpenny as well. If you are to disqualify the research of one group because they can profit from the result, mustn't you also disqualify the opinion of the other group, since their profits come from selling that opinion?

I will also say that my doctor, who I trust and respect, is one of the signers of the letter above - when I questioned him about vaccines, he suggested that I do my own research, with the caveat that I should consider the source of the information I am reading, which is why I am seeking to find credible anti-vaccine sources.

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bubba 2 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Phoebe, that is exactly the problem. Everyone seems to have an opinion as to whether vaccines are good or bad, so if a double-blind study were attempted, whoever administered the study would be knowingly doing something to children which they believe could be harmful (not administering the vaccine in the case of the pro vaccine crowd or administering the vaccine in the case of the anti vaccine crowd).

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HowardRoark 2 years, 7 months ago

@ Phoebe. Source for polio http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf Nearly every country has a vaccination exemption form you can fill out and still visit their country. These are not neccessary though as most of the vaccinations you think are required for travel are really only reccomendations and are not required. The primary exemptions include yellow fever when traveling to sub-saharan Africa (I have never been there and have no desire to go), and in some parts of South America (I have been there, but not the places which require vaccination). Yellow fever is the vaccine they require, thats it, just one, not MMR, or DTAP, or the multitude of others we require our children to endure here in the US for the pleasure of attending school. Why are you so concerned with my travel history? It is not a myth that the Amish do not vaccinate. I grew up in Lancaster county and knew a lot of Amish, and they do not vaccinate on religious grounds. There are people that are sick of society , are vaccinated, and integrate into the Amish community, and then there are Amish that leave the community to experience the "real world", stay for a while, get vaccines and go to college, then return to the Amish community, but the Amish do not vaccinate their children.

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freerider 2 years, 7 months ago

bubba

you must be wary of the FDA

AZT is genocide in a bottle , it was given to the gay community as a cure for AIDS , the religious right paid off the FDA to approve it .. the thing is it was made in the sixties as a cure for cancer . And yes it killed the cancer along with everything else in your body , if you take it you die , every high profile AIDS death has resulted from AZT ..well make up your own mind on that one ...look it up

Should you trust the FDA ....NO !!!!

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