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mavis (anonymous) says...

Howelsen is the ONLY thing right now keepng lots of kids skiing, and learning how to ski. However the SSWSC is going to have to start paying thier way. I wish that Howelsen would stay a city program and kids could learn to ski and that SSWSC would move to the big hill, fund itself and more people would have a reality about what it costs to be a part of SSWSC and how they need to be the elitests that fund themselves. I am sure if there was an audit of SSWSC similar to the SSSD school tax people would be APPAULED of how money was spent and the rest of us would STOP paying for the special groups and focus on basic needs!!

October 24, 2011 at 10:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

chadfleischer (Chad Fleischer) says...

Howelsen Hill is one of Steamboat's greatest assets if not its greatest asset. I am not sure about SSWSC politics and budgets but I do know this. The parks and Rec department needs to get more money for Howelsen not less and if cuts are to be made they need to be made without compromising the budget of Howelsen Hill. Its to the point where I cannot even take my kids there anymore because I never know if the place is going to be open.
City Council wake up!!!!! Budget cuts are one thing but keep in mind you were thinking about spending 2 million extra dollars we didn't have just three months ago. You will repave a parking lot, Bus Stops? Bike path way painting and signage? Etc, etc, etc!
and at the same time raise ticket prices and cut budgets for our number one asset in this town? If I were running for City Council I say one thing and thats get Howelsen Hill back to where it belongs and bring the rest of the PArks and Rec along for the ride. Chris and Craig work their butts off along with the rest of the parks and rec staff and they give us locals what we want...beautiful outdoor recreational facilities to enjoy with our friends and families.
"I voted against Steamboat 700????" How about "vote for me and I will make sure Howelsen Hill is open for you and your kids" how about "What the hell is wrong with the current City Council and these budget cuts"
Its time for the real issues to come to the table and I very much look forward to the meeting this Wed night. Lets get Howelsen back on track and get Craig and Chris the resources they need!

October 24, 2011 at 11:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

beentheredonethat (anonymous) says...

It is long overdue that the beneficiaries of using the howelsen hill ski area and the sswsc members pay the actual cost of running the facility.
How difficult can it be to take the operation costs divided by sswsc participants and day skiers to come up with the cost of ski passes/lift ticket fees to cover that expense?
When times are tough even traditions must be re-evalued, changed or even scrapped completely.
City taxes should be applied towards providing basic services for its residents. Subsidizing a private organization, benefitting few is not basic service. If money can be saved and returned to the tax payers all of us would benefit.

October 25, 2011 at 12:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

Chad if you are not sure of SSWSC politics and budgets maybe you should look into your club's reesources before you volunteer the entire city budget to keep Howelson open. It's what $3500 for a child to participate in an alpine racing program, but Parks has to foot the bill for the ski area? The city budget shouldn't just serve Parks, and SSWSC at the expense of road maintenance and services we all need.

October 25, 2011 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

1999 (anonymous) says...

keep it going and open.

There are many many many tourists who have no idea Howelsen is even there and available for skiing.

we need to get some publicity and marketing then maybe we can afford to have the ski hill open for tourists to ski.

maybe MR Vanderbeek can put some money towards this???

October 25, 2011 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sledneck (anonymous) says...

Look at the "most discussed" or "latest news" items.
"Protect our Wetlands"
"Keep Howelsen Viable"
"Think of the Children"
"Air service affects us all"

Along with keep the P-burg post office open, don't allow energy extraction, increase funding for education, etc.

Anyone see a pattern here?

October 25, 2011 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

housepoor (anonymous) says...

Sled does it feel like you went to bed and woke up in Boulder?

October 25, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sledneck (anonymous) says...

Oh, and we need all these things soooo much that we can't afford to widen a lousy 5 miles of road so THAT has to be relegated to waiting for some Federal grant????

Seriously, anybody ?????????????????

October 25, 2011 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Zed (anonymous) says...

"Anyone see a pattern here?"

I see a reflection of the people who live here and what they value. At the end of the day it is all a balance/debate between what we want and what we need.

October 25, 2011 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sledneck (anonymous) says...

House,
Yes it does.

October 25, 2011 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

greenwash (anonymous) says...

I say put Howelson up for lease....Any entrepreneurs out there interested ??? Hmmm how about some ex-olympians run it and make a living doing it..Parks and Rec does a fair job , I wouldnt say a great job though . Make SSWSC pay to play.

October 25, 2011 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

Putting Howelsen up for lease would mean that someone would then need to make a profit. That means they would:

1. Increase ticket prices dramatically.
2. Have to kick SSWSC out or make them pay to play.
3. Bring in some additional revenue sources. (Restaurant, Bar, ect..)

This will never happen. H.H. IS SSWSC's training facility. It's goal is not to turn a profit.

The HH crew (Parks Open Space and Recreation) do a great job running it. The real issue is whether or not the city wants to support SSWSC financially by running and maintaining the ski area for their purposes. The jump complex could be given back to the club to maintain and run, since this area is closed to public use. Look how much money the city has spent on the jumps in the past few years just in repairing the land slides.

October 25, 2011 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

greenwash (anonymous) says...

Yes sir , run it like a business....enough of the subsidy's.

October 25, 2011 at 1:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scottford (Scott Ford) says...

Hi Sledneck -
As one of the crew, that keeps track of our demographic, economic, and political profiles of the Yampa Valley communities, Steamboat Springs specifically is more like Boulder than it is like Hayden, Oak Creek, Yampa, or Craig.

In many Steambaot Springs is Bourler-West. Our fellow communities in the Yampa Valley are well aware of this. Bless our hearts that we all seem to get along or at least tolerate each other.

October 25, 2011 at 6:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

So kick Steamboat Springs Winter Sports Club to the curb? Is that what you are saying greenwash? Because that's what it comes down to if you want to make a profit or "run it like a business."

Let's be clear. The city doesn't subsidies HH so it can operate for the public, it subsidies HH so SSWSC can train there. If there were no SSWSC, Howelsen Hill would be a very different place. Would it even be open?

A compromise needs to be made where the sports club pays more of their share, which means less subsidies for them at HH.

Finally, why should we try to run city parks like private business? I personally like to use trails and parks without having to pay huge fees or any at all. Isn't that one of the reasons I pay taxes? Parks and Rec is not in the business to make profits, the goal is to serve the residents.

October 25, 2011 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

homegrown (anonymous) says...

As I see it our own Mount Werner ski area has managed to profit without owning a lot of real estate. They make money off the restaurants serving food and alcohol and of course $4 soft drinks. If Howelsen is to make a profit then it needs to operate somewhat like a ski area. They should tear down the snowboard program trailer, finding a better place for them in the process and bring in some historic building fitting the historic nature of Howelsen Hill, make it into a restaurant and bar, sub contract out the running of this place to someone who would run this, Staxx, the rodeo and centennial hall so they could actually make a profit. Bring local events for actual locals to this place, such as a resurgence of the Bump Off, and make a percentage off off all these places together along with being open somewhat regular hours, raise ticket prices and market it. SSWSC is part of the pull for tourists to watch and wonder at. so let them continue marketing with exceptional athletes. Also think of the summer income from rodeo, 9th inning and the new howelsen restaurant in the summer during Triple Crown, Kickball tournament. biking, etc. Just do it. Get a grant from some historic grant area to help out. We seem to be good at getting monies when we need them.

October 25, 2011 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JohnFielding (John Fielding) says...

.
As a candidate for City Council, I state unequivocally that I will make a relentless effort to restore full operating hours for the ski lifts, create a schedule for replacement of the chairlift, and advance the proposal for the world class Nordic center at the summit of Murray Peak. The funds for this and the support of the Winter Sports Club as well as other constructive activities for youth will come from the fee increase I propose for alcoholic beverage licenses, aka the "dime a drink" plan, and from taxes on MMJ dispensaries.

It is my position that the industries that cause so much damage to our young people and costs for our public safety personnel be required to pay for positive alternatives to help prevent these abuses, as well as the costs of dealing with the ongoing problems.

The additional factor for the successful expansion of the Howelsen/Emerald Mountain Nordic center will be to engage a commercial concessionaire to operate the facility that will continue to be owned and supported by the City,similar to a National Parks facility. The logical candidate would be Steamboat Ski and Resort Corp, who could combine the marketing of Alpine and Nordic venues very successfully.
.

October 25, 2011 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

Some good ideas homegrown, I would love to see a bar at Howelsen.

Never going to happen. Let's face it, HH is SSWSC training facility. It used to own and operate it. They gave it to the city so that it wouldn't have to burden the operating costs in return for letting the public use it too.

Have you ever tried to ski there when there are 60 children in line for the Poma and there's 3 gate courses on the face. Try adding some folks that just came from the new HH bar on the slopes.

Not many people outside of SSWSC ski there. HH is no Mount Werner. No one comes from out of town to ski 500 feet vertical, they can do that back home in the midwest.

Again, profit is not a goal for a city park. They have money, it's called TAXES you give to the city, so that they can run things like parks for YOU.

The money budgeted for HH is for SSWSC to have a training facility. There would be no new lights, new snowmaking, new carpet if there were no SSWSC. Look were the money goes to operate HH.

October 25, 2011 at 9:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

JohnFielding, I regret voting for you now, but there wasn't much to choose from either. You have some good ideas and some very bad ideas.

October 25, 2011 at 10:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JohnFielding (John Fielding) says...

.
Thank you for your vote, but what is really important is your input. Which ideas did you think were good or bad?
.

October 25, 2011 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

Let's call it the "Harm Tax"

Tax Alcohol and MMJ (wait isn't MMJ a medicine to help people?)
And tax. . . . .

All the fast food places, it makes people fat
All the coffee shops, caffeine is a drug, it's bad
All cars and related businesses, car accidents kill thousands every year
All bathrooms, more accidents happen in the bathroom then anywhere in you home
All the whatever it may be that YOU think is harmful

October 25, 2011 at 10:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

The city shouldn't be adding new facilities when we can't maintain the ones we already have.

MMJ taxes can be used for what ever the city needs, please no increases in taxes, for anyone. Alcohol doesn't need new taxes, it's called DUI. The city makes plenty from it.

October 25, 2011 at 10:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sledneck (anonymous) says...

Hi, Scott,
Boulder-West.
Otherwise known as: "A form of government all but impervious to reality; demonstrating their 'compassionate benevolance toward their own leisure' by spending money yet to be earned by generations yet to be born."

Got it!

Tell me something I don't know.

October 25, 2011 at 10:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JohnFielding (John Fielding) says...

.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I'll stick to only those which are so widely recognized as harmful that they are already heavily regulated or prohibited.

And I will only use funds collected from those industries to support mitigation of activities directly attributable to their effects on the community.

.

October 25, 2011 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

chadfleischer (Chad Fleischer) says...

HH is a place that brings people together in this community whether it be for the rodeo, the Winter Carnival, 4th fireworks, free concerts or families who want to ski, tube, alpine slide, mtn bike, skate/cross country ski, etc.
It is truly the heart and soul of the community and if you look back to the send off we gave our Steamboat Olympians two years ago the community ws proud and is still proud to know they stem from a little hill we all call our own. Yes it is true that it costs a substantial amount of money to operate but if we lose Howelsen and cut off its funding it becomes a place less of us use and as time wears on no one is there because it is a defunct operational entity.
There is no doubt that there may be more viable ways to operate HH but when you go watch over 300 4 to 6 year olds ski in a race with the biggest smiles its what a community should be built around if we want to continue to be a winter community.
I have been there watching 7 kids skiing all by themselves at night for hours on end and that is something you could never do on Mt Werner. HH is a very special place and I am not convinced it has anything to do with being historical. It has to do with families, affordability and a completely different approach. It is winter recreation at its finest because it is true to the heart of skiers, riders, nordic skiers, jumpers, etc. It is the essence of the sport because it isn't about profits its about knowing we all have a place to call our true home mountain.
SSWSC utilizes HH to max capacity there is no doubt but if you go there on a weekend and watch how many of our kids in this community are on the snow it is truly inspiring. Should there be a plan in place to offset costs if it is too expensive for all kids to enjoy...absolutely. The budget given to HH should account for subsidizing athletes to be involved in SSWSC not a SSWSC scholarship. If it is too expensive how many scholarships are given each year and how many applicants are there for those scholarships?
There are many things we all want, need and expect from our collected tax dollars so the real question is...is HH important to everyone or the select few who are in SSWSC? I would think that the large majority of this community are all in favor of ensuring that HH gets the funding it needs to keep the lights on, the snow blowing and the chairlifts running even if it is for a few locals.
Lets not forget what happens when its about profit, the place goes dark just like Ski Corp does to Mt Werner when the jets stop flying and we have a record spring snow year.

October 25, 2011 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

chadfleischer (Chad Fleischer) says...

It cannot be about skier number days and profit it has to be about supporting the winter enthusiasts that call Steamboat home on a full time basis.
I was, and still am, strongly opposed to building a jump to serve the needs of very few for 1.5 million. Money like this can keep HH going full tilt for years and years without any operational shortfalls. Putting the funds in a interest bearing account alone could pay the travel costs for the few that actually want to go somewhere and jump like Park City.
Managing HH funds is critical and running it like a business is critical but the most important thing is to keep HH running.
Maybe there needs to be outside efforts to raise funds for the operations of HH to subsidize this so those that want to see more done can donate time, energy and money and it isn't a burden to tax payers. I think everyone on this page has important points and by listening to all views on this subject we can come to a better understanding on how to run HH more effectively and efficiently.
What is the dollar figure to help off set/subsidize HH to get it to where it needs to be? What was and now is the budget for HH? Have the new hours of operation for this coming winter been released and if so what were the hours of operation 10 years ago? 5,4,3,2,1 and moving into this year?
What are the capital outlays proposed for HH? Are they needed? If so why and in what priority? Who determines these outlays and what are the credentials of these individuals making the decisions to purchase, upgrade,demo, fix, etc HH infrastructure?
To be honest I only know the purpose HH serves to this community I do not know the costs, the plan or the vision. I am looking forward to learning a great deal more tomorrow night at the community center and I am hopeful that those weighing in on this will be there to be heard and promote some critical thoughts.

October 25, 2011 at 11:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ybul (anonymous) says...

An interest bearing account? That seems to be an oxymoron today as interest rates are so low that saving money seems to be penalized today.

October 25, 2011 at 11:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

We all feel the love that Chad had for Howelson, the problem is not showing the beauty and community benifits of HH, but paying for it. When the city needs a new bike trail on HH, the RCR steps up and volunteers to get it built, when SSWSC wants a new jump, they raid our tax coffiers. Taxing everyone for the benifit of a few seems wrong, when tax dollars are deminishing and in such demand.

October 26, 2011 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cindyconstantine (cindy constantine) says...

mtroach--
The same argument applies to Ski Corp asking for all local taxpayers to pay for THEIR airline program. Vote no on 2B.

October 26, 2011 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BeCoolHoneyBunny (anonymous) says...

Well said Chad. I'm glad to see some reason and logic in your statements and questions. Looking forward to see what your involvement can bring to the table.

Agree with you too mtroach. I believe though the money to build a new summer jump on the smaller jump is mostly if not all private donations and grants.

The city has already taken $30,000 out of next year's budget that normally went to SSWSC to maintain the jump complex. A good step in the right direction.

October 26, 2011 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

upstream (anonymous) says...

Thank you Frankie for a well written and thought provoking letter. Clearly it has served the intended purpose by encouraging intelligent discourse about the needs, wants and values of our community. It is rare to actually see a comment thread on this forum go on this long without deteriorating. Hopefully the dialogue continues at tonight's meeting.

October 26, 2011 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

1999 (anonymous) says...

mt roach...when has SSWSC used taxpayer money for jump improvements?

I don't remember that.

October 26, 2011 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BillyD (anonymous) says...

Mtroach. RCR is not all volunteer like you insinuate. I believe they got about 50K from city council. Gretchen is invaluable, and more than likely underpaid, but I believe she is paid none the less. Everyone raids the tax coffers. RCR is no different. Its just a matter of where the money is best spent. No matter of fact, while we are talking about it, Why does the city pay to put on bike races when other things like the running series make money? RCR should step up their "volunteer" efforts and run the town challenge, as the city currently goes backwards financially to put these races on.

October 26, 2011 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exduffer (anonymous) says...

Riddle me this Batman-
Why is the city spending $160,000 a year to operate and maintain "open space"?

October 26, 2011 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

Billyd. I think you are wrong about RCR getting $50k that was BTUSa's marketing budget. As far as I know BTUSA is not a RCR program and run by a seperate board that communicates with RCR leadership but does not answer to RCR or take their lead from RCR. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Gretchen is a city employee charged with running the town challenge. Some of her duties as TC race director and RCR's trail director may overlap, but to my knowledge the city does not pay her for trail maintenance, that is done as a RCR volunteer. The town challenge is a city program and not available for private "running". Frankly I don't know if the town challenge makes money or not. But, with 150 racers paying $15or$20 each (8x)and just a couple of city workers organizing the start and results, I can't see how it could be in the red.

October 26, 2011 at 11:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )