Teens arrested in gang-related auto theft spree

Youths accused of stealing seven vehicles

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— Local law enforcement agencies have arrested two suspected teenage gang members for an auto theft crime spree last week in Pitkin, Garfield and Routt counties and in Denver.

Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario issued a press release late Friday reporting that the two youths, and a third who is under investigation, are “validated” members of the criminal Sureño gang who have been living in Garfield County.

One youth, Jason Alexis Gamez-Banda, 14, was apprehended Oct. 30 while reportedly trying to steal a vehicle in New Castle, with a stolen handgun in his possession.

Gamez-Banda was “held at gunpoint by the vehicle's owner until officers from the New Castle Police Department and deputies from the Garfield County Sheriff's Office arrived and took him into custody,” Vallario reported in the release.

The youths are accused of stealing seven vehicles between Oct. 25 and 30: five in Garfield and Pitkin counties, one in the Steamboat Springs area and one in Denver. They are also believed to have burglarized eight other vehicles, stealing electronics and the handgun recovered in New Castle.

The 14-year-old is charged with three felonies: aggravated motor vehicle theft, theft and first-degree criminal trespass, and two misdemeanors: carrying a concealed weapon and underage possession of a handgun. His is also under a hold placed by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Service.

The second youth, Luis Jurado, 16, is charged with one felony, aggravated motor vehicle theft. The sheriff's report did not explain how or when Jurado was apprehended.

A third teen is still under investigation and is not currently facing felony charges. He was not identified.

Close work among local law enforcement agencies linked the suspects to the crimes and to the Sureño gang, and led to the recovery of all seven stolen vehicles, Vallario said.

During the initial stages of the investigation of Gamez-Banda by the Carbondale and New Castle police departments, a Carbondale officer recognized gang-related information. The officer contacted the sheriff's anti-gang deputy, who used his resources, database and informants to help identify the other suspects.

The investigation also involved the Aspen Police Department and ICE Homeland Security Investigations.

“The outcome of this investigation demonstrates the importance of the cooperation between local and federal law enforcement agencies such as ICE Homeland Security Investigations and its Operation Community Shield Task Force,” Vallario said.

“It also demonstrates that dangerous criminal gang activity is present in our communities,” he said. “A cooperative law enforcement approach with our citizens is crucial to eradicate this criminal element.”

Authorities noted that these vehicle thefts and others involved cars left unlocked, sometimes with the keys inside.

“To prevent these types of crimes, please remember to remove valuables and secure your vehicle,” Vallario said. “Whenever possible, park your vehicle in a location that is well lit and has high visibility.”

Comments

kathy foos 3 years, 1 month ago

A few years back I had a car repossessed in Routt County for a mechanics lien (300.00) couldnt pay to get it back,the company just gave my car to a third party for three hundred dollars ,gave them the plates along with the title,trusted them to change the title to themselves.The person unknown to me,drove my old car around this area selling burritos out of the back for at least year (I saw them on the construction site I was working at,didnt notice the plates like a dummy)Then this year I get a notice that a tow company wanted to crush my car in New Mexico.I tried to find out what happened by reporting to New Mexico authorities and its being investigated there and here.My point is that people need to secure the plates no matter what and dont trust anyone to do anything honestly.I have no idea how long and where that car was driven in my name.

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

There's your open border policy at work, now deal with it Steamboat, most of you railed against the Tea Party for wanting to stop illegals and now the same crime wave that has plagued the more southern border areas and big cities are here in your little burg.

Can't wait to see what the I.C.E. event at Herbage was about but I have some feeling it may be more of the same. Open borders, yipeeeee.

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higuy449 3 years, 1 month ago

Yep, gotta love all you bleeding heart liberals who want to protect illegals rights. I don't care if they aren't illegal, everyone knows there is a 90% chance they were anchor babies. If you're so worried about them, you should pony up for their legal fees and what it costs to incarcerate them, because I don't want to be paying for your sympathy.

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Clay Ogden 3 years, 1 month ago

Just curious ... what in this article suggests these people are in the US illegally?

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Clay Ogden 3 years, 1 month ago

But it's not unusual for foreign gang organizations to recruit US nationals.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

"... was held at gunpoint by the vehicles owner until... officers arrived..."

Sounds like it was an armed citizen that broke the case, no?

I have decided to once again carry a gun everywhere I go, like I used to years ago in a galaxy far, far away. This article is just one drop in a seemingly continuous stream of information that confirms carrying a gun is the right choice. The far-away galaxies are moving in and uncle scam refuses to do a damn thing about it.

What is being allowed to happen on our southern border is nothing short of treason.

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

Love it, Clay Ogden jumps in to defend gangland carjackers. You may have a change of softness one day if an MS13 killer shows up in the dark of night wanting what you got, hope you have a direct line to Obama although he won't be able to protect your soft tush, nor would he give a damn.

Arpaio for President2012 It's kick butt time

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

I'm shocked....all the anti government people, seeuski and sled for ex., want the government to step in and help? LOL

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Clay Ogden 3 years, 1 month ago

seeuski wrote "Clay Ogden jumps in to defend gangland carjackers" ... you are an anonymous coward an and idiot to boot ... I asked "what in this article suggests these people are in the US illegally?" I defended no-one.

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Kristopher Hammond 3 years, 1 month ago

Obviously Obama's plan is to open the southern border so the Surenos (an American company) can keep their costs down and hire cheap Mexican labor, stealing jobs from hardworking American car thieves. That is just evil! Im never gonna buy a stolen car from the Surenos again. 300,000 were deported last year, the most ever, but the government just doesn't do enough. Sounds like we need more government and more guns. Oh wait, Obama took all our guns, didn't he?

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Shawant, My previous comment was for hill, not you.

My question to you is: How can a nation deport the "most illegals ever" unless it first imports the most illegals ever? Why do you favor illegal immigration? Seriously, I really do want to know.

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Kristopher Hammond 3 years, 1 month ago

What makes you think I favor illegal immigration? Nothing in my post infers that.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Because you defend the big government mindset that allows it to flourish.

(Your post above: It makes light of mexican drug gangs who are overrunning our cities. It makes light of 20 million unemployed Americans while there are 20 million illegals in the country depriving those americans of those jobs; not to mention costing us billions in social programs. It cavalierly smacks at legitimate 2nd amendment supporters while your retarded government just put several hundred guns in the hands of mexican criminals; the same government that is so screwed-up that it can't even be sure those mexicans and the guns uncle scam gave them are not on their way to your hometown. )

You DO, favor illegal immigration. I'm not asking you to deny it. I'm simply curious as to why you condone/ favor/ accept illegal immigration. Why do you think it's such a grand old thing?

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

Obama has many lawsuits VIA the inJustice Dept attacking any State that has exercised it's 10th Amendment rights to protect it's Citizenry form the illegals that are pouring across the border. You turkeys on the left have defended this policy at every turn. So here comes the crime spree and you have to deal with it. As I stated many times in recent months, "CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER"! And I may add, "STOP GIVING GUNS TO DRUG CARTELS"!

Hi Clay, pretty tuff words, you do scare me, I am shaking and quaking. To answer your stupid question about the legality of the Latino punks who have been hijacking cars and assaulting people in Colorado, we will never know in this Politically Correct environment as to where these criminals are from or born, but as a US Citizen I have the right to demand my Federal Government do the job it is Constitutionally obligated to do @hillclinger, protect the US sovereignty from illegal foreign invasion and intrusion. What the heck is wrong with the brains of some of you? Mush! Good grief.

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grundy 3 years, 1 month ago

Way to Keep it Klassy Kids!

Hey Pilot- in regards to 11/6/11 8:11 sledneck post which was removed this morning, just how many times does someone get to violate the user agreement before being banned?

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Kevin Nerney 3 years, 1 month ago

I thought minors didn't have their names released. Lucky for someone the kid decided not to use that handgun. Haven't' taken my keys out of my truck in 10 years and don't plan on it anytime soon. That's why I have insurance and if someone wants a 12 year old truck with 100 thousand miles on it they can have it.

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Kristopher Hammond 3 years, 1 month ago

Sled at least come up with an original retort to someone who disagrees with you. You sound like a political attack ad: "What's wrong with shawant? Why does shawant hate America? This lame ploy is trotted out by Rush once a week: "What the left really wants is ....." I am trying to use sarcasm and maybe even humor to make an observation that you and your ilk are constantly railing against big government and then blame the government for not being big enough to (seal the border, fix the economy, create jobs, fill in the blank). Make up your mind. Illegal immigrants aren't shipped up here by Obama, they come here for jobs. You admit that yourself. If employers didn't break the law by hiring them, the attraction would be severely diminished. Do you think the businesses that employ illegals need more or less regulation? Who is going to do the additional regulating? A smaller government? Where are the enforcement funds going to come from? Tax cuts? This is like blaming the police for crime or blaming doctors for disease. BTW, the gang in question is American, not Mexican. I am against illegal immigration, but you and I disagree on how to deal with the problem. You seem to be saying that lower taxes and less government will accomplish the task, and I am just not smart enough to connect those dots. Throw me a bone, here. Start your next post with "Reducing the size of our Federal government and lowering taxes will solve the illegal immigration problem because....." I say pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan and station the soldiers along the border to really defend our country. Raise taxes to pay for strict enforcement of illegal employers. And keep deporting them. Please don't presume to know what I am in favor of. Can we agree that I am the only one who can post what I think? I stick to sarcasm and humor because posting in anger could make me seem like a racist and get me removed.

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Kristopher Hammond 3 years, 1 month ago

I was using sarcasm, and perhaps humor, too to make my point. Sorry. I know the Surenos are active in Colorado prisons and have been for many years. Everything else I learned about the Surenos I learned from your post yvb. I would bet that all the the newcomer Mexican gangs (Zetas, la Familia, Sonora, Surenos) learned their chops from the Americans (Capone, Gotti, Latin Kings, Aryan Brotherhood, MS-13, Crips, Bloods, Hells Angels, , etc. etc.). They probably learned a few songs and dance moves from the Sharks and the Jets, too. (I couldn't resist that one, sorry) I stand by my comments about the number deported and it being the most ever. This is not a "line", it is a fact. If I am wrong please set me straight with facts. I did NOT say that our current administration has set records in preventing border crossings because I don't know what those figures are or how they could be calculated. Rummy would call that a "known unknown". They are not being flown to our country on Air Force One, despite what Fox News or Tom Tancredo would have you believe. You agree Senor with the "military on the border" suggestion at the end of my last post, Si? I am flattered.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Shawant, I asked you a simple question and you didn't even attempt to answer. My first question to you was: (you claimed that we just "deported the most illegals ever"; my question was: How can America deport the "most illegals ever" if it first had not just IMPORTED THE MOST ILLEGALS EVER???

Riddle me that and I will address your follow-up questions.

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bobnbobber 3 years, 1 month ago

Poor Clay, ripped to shreds in mere seconds.....tough crowd in this here comments No matter what you say, someone will twist it into their political agenda. Remember, these are professionals, they do this every day!

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

Anyone who wants to throw around Obama Administration claims as to numbers on anything after three years of proven lies is ............ up a rope in the wind. Especially when we have the crimes attributable to Obama of arming killers in the Mexican drug Cartels. Yea sure, I believe the numbers, sure. Just answer me then, why is Obama suing AZ and several other states for enforcing immigration laws that this Administration won't enforce? Why is Obama jailing Border Guards for doing their jobs? Why is Obama trying to impose the Dream Act on America which gives illegals more rights than we as Citizens have? It does not require a "BIG GOVERNMENT" to do the job Constitutionally required, defend our Sovereignty Obama!

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

And don't mind the ever growing Obama Big Government tomorrow @ 2PM when he shuts down all public communication for 4 minutes to test his ability to further create chaos when he needs to. Net neutrality, shutting down all means of communication, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?

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Kevin Nerney 3 years, 1 month ago

Speaking of shutting down the communication system in the nation reminds me of an old joke either Gorge Carlin or Robert Klein use to tell about the noon whistle-----"one Russian to another, tomorrow we attack at noon they'll think it's lunch". Why are we telling the world when the test will be?

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Kristopher Hammond 3 years, 1 month ago

Sled don't you know that rhetorical questions like yours already have the answer in them? Oops sorry.

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trump_suit 3 years, 1 month ago

Not sure how a communications test becomes about securing the borders, but once again you win the prize for most obscure conspiracy theory.

Bet you missed this one. http://www.space.com/13534-white-house-alien-life-evidence-petitions.html

Please see, tie it all together for us and tell us how Obama is blacking out communications to let the aliens land without being observed. If you try really, really hard, you could work in George Soros, SEIU, and securing the borders into one really big anti Obama Socialist failure rant.

I am waiting for your entertaining post. Better than reading fantasy books.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Attaboy Shawant, You and I both know America can't deport record numbers of illegal aliens until it first IMPORTS record numbers of them.

It is narrow-minded to assume that the ONLY way for government to do something different is to expand.However, it is funny in that it betrays a typical leftist characteristic; that being its inability to ever imagine even the slightest cut to gubbamint. It just goes over their head to imagine cutting enough in one area (like dept of energy, epa, dept of education, war in everystan, etc) to re-direct that to other areas... like illegal immigration.

We agree about businesse that hire illegals. Ditto for the endless wars.

I have NEVER advocated for government to "fix the economy" or "create jobs". It can do neither. Nor is that it's job. Government exists to protect life, liberty and property. Not to meddle in the affairs of free men.

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

Wow, the self righteous rhetoric on this site is amazing. People on both sides have their "idealistic blinders" on and common sense goes completely by the wayside. Um, do you really think that if the borders were shut down completely that there would be no gangs perpetuating violence so as to supply the american populace from all social strata with the narcotics they so dearly desire? I am sure a neo nazi gang from Idaho would be happy to fill the void. All the anti government rhetoric is also overwhelming. For some reason this rhetoric was curiously absent during the Bush 2 era, when the government was expanding its debt by fanning the winds of war. For the record I am neither here nor there politically but feel there is too much value placed on personal beliefs on both sides. As a side note, (also neither here nor there) have some of you anti socialists been to "socialist" countries in Europe? Been to Germany lately? Educated population, high standard of living, time off from work, no deficit spending, factories that produce for export and take pride in craftsmanship, impressive infrastructure, spirit of innovation, the same freedoms we enjoy stateside.

Just wondering.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Which part of Europe should we visit hillclinger? The part who's ass we kicked or the part who's ass we saved?

You can't possibly be up on current events to suggest looking to europe as a model, can you? Almost the entire continent is BANKRUPT even though they have lived under the very expensive umbrella of AMERICAN defense for 6 decades. And if Germany runs counter to the rest of Europe it is because it has yet to get the bitter taste out of it's mouth of economic ruin under the Weimar Republic and it never wants to go back there. Apart from that, Europe is an economic BASKET CASE and a poster child for how socialism fails.

And if the "anti-government rhetoric" that you now hear was "absent from the Bush era" it was no more absent that the "anti war" and "president is a war criminal" rhetoric is currently absent from todays leftists.

I don't know where you got your assumptions, nor can I speak for others, but let me try to clear you up about me personally so you can stop making foolish assumptions, k?

1.I never said we should be running prohibition on drugs. I am under no illusion that closing the border will stop the drug trade. Thats a small portion of the problems arriving from south of the border. 2. I beilieve the war on drugs is a failure and should be stopped. 3. Ditto's for the war on poverty and illiteracy. Failures that should be stopped. 4. I believe the endless wars in everystan are devisive and dragging this country down. I do not support them. 5. The war on our civil rights, on the other hand, is going remarkably well.

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

Oh, I am up on current events. Your "ass kicking" you refer to was a long time ago. History has moved on. Stop living in the past. Yes, they have been quite intelligent over in Europe at taking advantage of american defense and we are idiots for providing it free of charge. Americans buy cars with wreckless abandon from former axis powers. This is current ass kicking and not living in the past like you are. They have moved on, you, clearly have not. Weimar republic? That's like saying we never recovered from the war for independence. Foolish assumptions? Only you who tries to appear intelligent by making dated references to history.

You believe we should stop fighting illiteracy? LOL that's sure to move the US forward in a knowledge based world. Look towards the future but learn from the past Sled. An ignorant society does not move forward.

The fact that your civil rights are being infringed upon is an illusion. Give me a break. You can still go to a website and buy your full auto conversion for your semi and go into the national forest and shoot if it makes you feel better. On the way there you can burn all the diesel you want at prices most euro's would be envious about. (ah, but what is the true cost of that diesel?) If I bring that topic up, no matter how rational, I will be branded a you know what.

Greece may be a basket case. Italy also. But the majority of Europe is doing quite well. Have you been there recently? Most americans who rip on socialism have not seen firsthand how well it can actually work because they are afraid to travel and suck up fox news all day.

I could go on but then I would be grinding an axe (as others, ahem, do here on a daily basis.)

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

If you think the European model and socialism are grand ole' things what are you doin' here? Why not put the rest of you where your mouth is and go all-in and move there? Better yet, North Korea is farther along the socialism trail; why not just take a short cut to utopia and go there?

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S_G30 3 years, 1 month ago

hillclinger, move to europe. They need your tax money now more than ever. Don't worry, they know exactly how to spend it for you.

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

ha ha. What? No history based "rational" counterargument? I would move if i didn't think the US could be better than all by picking the best concepts from around the globe and applying them appropriately. Remember, the US is still a comparatively young experiment. Come to think of it, they would do a better job of spending my tax dollars over there. No spending on multiple wars to start... and comparing North Korea to europe displays pure ignorance. I rest my case.

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Kristopher Hammond 3 years, 1 month ago

OK, Sled, I answered your question. Now live up to your end of the bargain. You proposed it, after all: "Riddle me that and I will address your follow-up questions". Those questions were: Do you think the businesses that employ illegals need more or less regulation? Who is going to do the additional regulating? A smaller government? Where are the enforcement funds going to come from? Tax cuts? And as a special bonus, I ask you to start your next post with "Reducing the size of our Federal government and lowering taxes will solve the illegal immigration problem because....." Glad we agree on a few major points.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Shawant, Yes, I think businesses need to be checked and fined if they have illegals working for them. The funds for that enforcement could come from an equal or greater cut to the dept. of energy, education, health and human services, defense, etc. Take your pick. Bottom line: government could enforce the border as well as the business aspect of illegals immigration and STILL reduce it's size. Any idiot knows as much. I answered this once already but you must not have considered what I said. Growing government isn't the only way for government to do new things.

"Reducing the size of government..." would reduce social programs that attract illegals to our country and it would force a lot of deadbeats to take those "jobs only Mexicans want". It would also give government more revenue for enforcement. "...lowering taxes..." I never claimed that there was any direct correlation between taxes and illegal immigration. But I can tell you this: There is definitely a correlation between tax rates and jobs leaving America. And not just jobs but the people who create them.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Hill, If you call 150 years of failed socialist states, genocide, murder, starvation and war a case then yes sir, you have a helluva case. Name me one socialist nation that is as old or as propperous as America.

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thalgard 3 years, 1 month ago

Sled...all of the Scandinavian countries, Norway, Finland, Sweden etc. have Social Democratic governments and higher GDP's than ours...with unemployment hovering around 2% (www.forbes.com/.../world-happiest-pla...).

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

I have to admit Thalgard, those are certainly among the best examples. But I don't actually think they trump the USA although they do merit more scrutiny.

Swedens taxes are almost 50% of its GDP. And, according to wiki, "much of the swedish models acclaimed advantages had to be viewed as a 'post WWII special situation'... " Finland was a part of Russia until 1917 so it's not that old and it has some serious headwinds from a demographic perspective. Norway is one of the highest cost of living nations in the world; 90% higher than in the US. 30% of its population are employed by the government, 22% are on welfare and 13% are deemed too disabled to work.

They are not as free as the US. They spend more of their weekly paycheck on a big mac or gas or bottle of beer than Americans, and their broader living standards, while high for Europeans are not comperable to the USA.

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thalgard 3 years, 1 month ago

YVB...does the word "boy" in your moniker refer to the fact that you are too puerile and self-centered to be referred to as a man?

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

anti socialists, (sled etc.) I will ask one last time. Have you been to these countries in person? Have you seen them? Or are you just getting this info from fox news and statistics from wikipedia?? Are you making decisions based on data and "news" alone?

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

And I will again ask you. If Europe is such a grand ole' place why are you here?

One look at Europe's demographics tells us that people are only going to Europe for vacations. Not to build businesses. Not for healthcare. Not for innovation. Not for freedom.

They come here! That trumps all your tales of grandure. It trumps Fox News, Wikipedia or anything else.

The history books are full of examples of the results of socialism. So are the graveyards. You're damned right I'm anti socialist.

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

Europe, is this guy trying to parade Europe as the banner for Socialism? The success of Europe is obvious, Greece, Italy, England, oh my. Great examples of successful Socialism, NOT!!! They need our money derived from free markets to bail them out. They are sneaking taxpayer dollars through the FED Reserve to the tune of trillions. We have been paying their bills for years. When will people wake up?

FOX NEWS FOX NEWS FOX NEWS FOX NEWS. Feel better now?

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

I am here because like you, sled, I agree the US is a great place for innovation. To say that US trumps all is blatantly false, however. We still build cars like its the 1950's, for example. We still perpetuate news like its the 1950's (Fox news). But we have a spirit of creativity and innovation that produces some of the worlds greatest ideas. HOWEVER, this will not be the case much longer if the middle class disappears. We need a stable society. I still find it baffling that people are so willing to dismantle European ideals as a whole without even having seen it first hand? It is a display of American arrogance and ignorance reminiscent of the Bush era which has seen the demise of our reputation as a promised land on the world stage. So please stop asking me to move to Europe when all I am trying to do is make this country a better place by educating myself with firsthand knowledge rather than drinking ridiculous rhetric and data from a firehose and spitting back what I manage to retain. It is also VERY easy to point to the bad apples (seemerant) like Greece and make judgements on the rest of Europe. That is like saying the US is like South Central Los Angeles and saying "See how well capitalism works?" C'mon. That is an example of the typical "news" purveyed by bleach blonde bimbo news reporters on Fox.

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

and seemerant, those ski lifts you ride up the hill on, they were not produced by american innovation. They were made is socialist/capitalist countries like Austria. That industry probably employs many times more people than facebook.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

You acknowledged that Europe has lived under the umbrella of American defense for 6 decades. We both agree that that was due to our own stupidity. Do you think Europe would have as much social wealth as it does today (which is dubious) had it been forced to "pony-up" serious money for its defense? Of course not. It would look like the basket case that it is.

And let us make a friendly wager right now. I will bet you any amount of money you wish that, in the next 18 months, that shining example of utopian socialism which you champion, will come to the "good ole USA" for some sort of financial bailout. So name your price.

I think Europe has been living a life of artificial luxury, impervious to economic reality and built, not on the utopian socialist ideal to which you allude, but on the backs of the American taxpayers.

I further find it insulting that we are viewed as the "uncivilized" bunch while the European continent has been the stage for one economic failure after another and one slaughter after another for centuries.

I also find it more than a little "European" of you to slam Fox News while seemingly ignoring the broadcast news train wrecks like Kieth Olberman, Rachael Maddow or Mr Ed.

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the_Lizard 3 years, 1 month ago

Okay, okay, I'll admit it. I've been to Europe twice including Eastern Europe. Now y'all know I'm uber sophisticated too, but yet still....I'm anti-socialist and very pro-American. The system we were originally given by our founders was a thing of beauty, sad that people such as yourself, hillclinger, have always wanted to "improve" it.

It is so tiresome that leftist's primary crutch in any argument is the old, "I'm superior because you watch Fox News, Limbaugh etal and I get my vastly superior information from The NYT or PBS. Upon gleaning this info. my curious mind analyzes the info and files it in a pragmatic way to be retrieved later as needed upon unsuspecting troglodytes/conservatives.....blah blah blah. The, I've been to Europe and understand how wonderful their system of government , is a new twist, but just as bogus. .

A quick lookey-loo on google just told me that chair lifts were, in fact, created through American innovation, in Idaho. That's right hillclinger, Sun Valley in 1936. (I didn't look at wiki for this info.) One last thing, a young man in one of the eastern European countries I visited told me with such longing how he wished his country could be like America, but doubted that it would ever happen. Not like France or Spain or even Germany, but like the USA I guess after being released from the clutches of Russia, they understand, the only thing that really matters is FREEDOM!!!

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S_G30 3 years, 1 month ago

I have worked in China, Korea, Europe, Dubai and Spain.

hillclinger, be careful to make assumptions about posters on this site. If you believe that their systems are shinning examples of the perfect society model than I doubt you have spent any time across the pond other than vacations that our free market afforded you.

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seeuski 3 years, 1 month ago

No, hilldweller follows orders from the George Soros OWS leader, Obama. Go ahead parrot, regurgitate some more puke from the Anarchist daily.

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

(sigh)I'll go backwards:

S_G30: "be careful to make assumptions" -You made one yourself assuming I have been a vacationer over there and not long term employed abroad. Yoda voice...."mmmm hypocrit he is...." the_Lizard:"American innovation...chairlifts...etc..." -Innovation also means being able to keep the work after we invent, so we can make our country stronger. Doppelmeyr, Graventa...look at the nameplates on the lifts next time you ride up, you are supporting good jobs in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. the_Lizard: "eastern europe" -Easy target, try harder: Poor countries, recovering from long bad communism hangover, and longinly wanting a better life, of course (nice one). Interview a typical Swiss (the other extreme) and ask them if they want to move to USA. As for the fox news bit, well, it's true. -"improving it"- well, I don't want to improve it, just want to make sure the original concept is appropriate for changing times and not an immalleable relic from a bygone era. Even the best ideas need maintenance. Sled: "bailout" -Will never happen. I'll take that bet depending on which countries you refer to. Will the US bail out Switzerland? Hahahaha! -"civilized vs. uncivilized bit: The truth hurts. -centuries of warfare: We've been at it a lot less time than the Europeans and we are every bit fighting for first place in the war atrocity department. Iraq? Vietnam? Afghanistan? Where should we start?

I could go on but let's face it...both sides will believe what they want and there is no changing of minds.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

European Union... bailout... from us... less than 18 months. Name the amount.

" we are... fighting for first place in the war atrocities department" ? Really??

Well that certainly proves you mean what you said about believing what you want, (rather than demonstrable historic facts)

Hitler, a German, you know... from Europe... started a war that is estimated to have killed 60 - 70 million worldwide. But who's counting? Certainly not you. Nope, you know America rivals Europe in war atrocities and that's that!! Pull the lever, get your pellet. Besides, you probably didn't have time to visit Auschwitz on your last vacation. Thats understandable, you were probably just too busy admiring those heroic, neutrality-loving Swiss folks whos grandparents looked after all that gold from the jews teeth that Htiler sent them.

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S_G30 3 years, 1 month ago

Fair enough, but I would not call what I did an assumption, rather an educated guess based on your comments. If I'm wrong I apologize.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Hope everyone checks out YVB's wall. double-click on his picture. Greenwash has a few words of peace and harmony for YVB from the tolerance and diversity/ peace and light crowd.

It's been there for.... I wondered when it would be exponged but........................

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hillclinger 3 years, 1 month ago

sled: I'm impressed, at least you know that the Swiss have ratholed away war atrocity money, most people are unaware of this, but that is off topic. As for the war atrocities, we're not there yet, but we are well on our way. Like I said, gunning for first place, not in first place yet. Read the latest story on the soldier court marshalled for hunting Afghans for sport? Probably that headline is just a fabrication by the liberal media I'm sure...Well if we perpetuate this war at winning the hearts and minds of the enemy for another 10 years we will get there slowly but surely. How many innocents killed to date? No one really knows. As for the Nazi's, their tenure was short and determined in the war atrocities dept. We seem to have a long term plan at success. But once again, you are living in the past, while some of our esteemed countrymen are doing some very, very horrible things.

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sledneck 3 years, 1 month ago

Men of all nations have monsters walking among them, hill. America is no exception.

You won't get any argument from me about the endless wars. It needs to stop. We are not an empire.

My argument with you is about socialism. I think an honest review of history favors my position on the subject.

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Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 1 month ago

I think greenwash might be under the mistaken impression that people's walls are private. I also think greenwash is either a schizophrenic or possessed. Read what he wrote on seeuski's wall. I have one word for you, greenwash ... therapy.

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