Steve Ross: Educated parents needed
Friday, November 4, 2011
Steamboat Springs — What a gracious and lovely sentiment in Ms. Shara Ludlum’s letter to the editor (“Start vaccinating,” Nov. 2 Steamboat Today). It is so refreshing to hear from a remarkable woman and mother who witnessed firsthand the ravages of a vaccine-preventable disease.
The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia’s website has a host of similar parents whose children were infected by vaccine-preventable diseases, and on the Children’s Hospital of Colorado website, our own fearless governor took the step of describing his family’s ordeal with infant B. pertussis. The New York Times has several editorials this year on the safety of childhood vaccines.
It was heartbreaking to read the really nasty, vicious anonymous comments to a really thoughtful letter. One hopes that their parents get a refund on the money spent on their respective educations. Everyone knows that vaccines were the cause of the Greek debt crisis, global warming and Kim Kardashian.
Medical scholars have identified vaccines as the greatest breakthrough in modern medicine. The Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Harvard and the University of Colorado all vigorously encourage and support vaccinations of adults and children. Last month, the Children’s Hospital of Colorado tooted its own horn about all the physicians getting a flu vaccine. Warren Buffett gave the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation $35 billion for vaccines for children in Third World nations. If it is any comfort to the wingnuts of Yampa Valley, most, if not all, of the physicians lose money by providing vaccines. We provide them because vaccines are a staggering breakthrough in medicine and save the lives of millions of innocent children each year.
Ms. Ludlum is a magnificent parent for writing such a compelling and caring letter. Yampa Valley could use more of such thoughtful and educated parents.
Steve Ross, MD, FAAP
Steamboat Springs
Comments
sledneck 1 year, 7 months ago
Steve, What else do you expect from a population longing to return to a primitive, hunter/ gatherer lifestyle without electricity, money, property, technology; freezing to death in a cave and chuckin' spears at wild animals till disease mercifully takes them at the ripe old age of 29?
AlphaTeam 1 year, 7 months ago
Dr. Ross Please forgive the ignorant parents in this communtity who belive that it is their job as good parents to actually think about what they are doing and to be a little synical about everything that is fed to them. Especially something as important as their childrens health. Here is a fun fact, there has never been a 100% unvaccinated control group to compare with any of the hundreds of vaccines that have rolled of the assembly line and into our bodies. Not once. You can't submit a 6th grade science paper with that kind of science. No control means no evidence to support either side. Not to mention the fact that these vaccines have only been around for a decade or two, the newer vaccines are more like five to ten years. How can you ask me to shoot up my new born when there is no way of knowing any form of long term side effects? Do you know what will happen to my little girl in 20 years because she got a Hep B shot in the first day of her life? Your not liable, so who cares i guess, right? Unfortunatly the majority of the parents in this country are ignorant to vaccines. So uninformed that many belive that if they don't have a full tally sheet of vaccines for their children by the time school starts, their kids will not be admitted. Many people are so caught up in the fear mongering that they are afraid to not vaccinate because they are convinced that if they don't their children will surely contract these rare dieseses and become horribly maimed or die. Once again, no control group means no data. For all we know vaccines are total B.S, and all of the fear mongering and posturing in the world can't make a hoax a fact.
All you have too do is google any of these vaccines and read both sides of the story. MERK. the C.D.C. and the F.D.A. all tout these vaccines as marvels. Unfortunatly there are alot of people out there who aren't making money off of these vaccinces who have a different story. 1 in 100,000 people get menegitis every year. 2,500-3,000 americans. This includes prisoners, soldiers, college students, everyone. Not just your babies. Not exactly an outbreak. And once again, who says these vaccines work? There is no real data.
HowardRoark 1 year, 7 months ago
Dr. Ross. It is interesting that you would reply to my comment and refer to me as a wing nut with a poor education when that is exactly as I see you. Autism has gone from 1 in 500,000 children 1989 to 1 in 66 today, and people like you scream to the top of your lungs that vaccines are not the cause, hence why us uneducated morons out here do not trust you anymore. Asthma, diabeties, allergies and GI problems in our children have risen over 300% since 1989 as well. What are you doing about it good doctor? Do you have any idea why this is all happening, or are you still reading fraudulent tabacco science in your prestigious medical journals written by a cornacopia of people that stand to profit from the vaccines they promote? The CDC, WHO and Merck is a revolving door. The CDC director from 2002 to 2009 was hired right after leaving the CDC by Merck to head their 5 billion dollar a year vaccine campaign, and she is making a killing. See any conflicts of interest? Or how about Dr. Paul Offit from your prestigious medical school in Philly? He is promoting a vaccine on the schedule that he holds the patent to and stands to earn millions of dollars; no conflict of interest there, huh? I notice that you do not address the fact that over 75% of meningitis infections are casued by strain B, but that the vaccine dos not protect against strain B. The flu vaccine does not protect against the flu, and that is admitted by the very people that make the vaccine. Perhaps you should read the inserts of what you are injecting into your patients, but I guess you are too busy with all the sick people out there that you are treating (and making top dollar for treating). It would be nice if you could tell us little people the causes for the increases of all of these problems, but I guess you are too busy treating the symptom to care about the cause, which is why I have little faith in your medical opinions.
heboprotagonist 1 year, 7 months ago
Funny how you say more "thoughtful and educated" parents are needed, when you don't want them to actually think for themselves. Remember that all parents simply want to to the best for their kids. Dismissing their very real concerns as "wing-nut" is exactly the type of ivory tower mentality I avoid at all costs. In case you're wondering, this is the reason we chose someone else to be our newborn's pediatrician.
We were unsure how we felt about vaccines when we started interviewing pediatricians, but based on how they answered the vaccine question we immediately eliminated the condescending MD's. Your letter strikes that same tone. Perhaps you were responding to the anonymous posts cited in your letter, but snark like that should never be exhibited by a doctor in a public forum. It's petty and indefensible.
Should we pat you on the back for losing money on vaccines? (Not that I think it's true) If you got into the practice of medicine to make a profit, then that's another reason you aren't my doctor. Medical scholars were behind the Tuskegee Experiments- should we be like those men, just happy to receive "free" healthcare?
Lastly, it strikes me as odd that you would use stats and data to counter a "wing-nut" argument. Even someone sitting in an ivory tower like yourself should recognize that us "wing-nuts" don't shine to cold math easily. We prefer the warm and fuzzy anecdotal evidence that we can relate to. Haven't you heard the old adage?- There are 3 types of lies: Lies, Damnable lies, and Statistics.
When you stop looking at patients with disdain for not having your same medical degrees and start seeing them as capable of critical thinking (peers even!) then you will experience for yourself a medical breakthrough even more important than your precious vaccines.
AlphaTeam 1 year, 7 months ago
herboprotagonist, just out of curiousity who did you chose for your pediatrician? I have the same reserves about the vaccinations and am in the market for a new pediatrician. I would like someone who is respectful of my concerns and haven't yet found someone like that.
heboprotagonist 1 year, 7 months ago
AlphaTeam-
I think I successfully posted that info to your profile. I didn't want to post it publicly. Haters gonna hate, y'know?
For the record, the good doctor does recommend most vaccinations, but was more than willing to work with us on finding the appropriate plan.
We are skipping Hep B and chickenpox for sure. Others we haven't decided yet.
AlphaTeam 1 year, 7 months ago
Got it! Thank you for the info. We are still undecided as well and don't know if we will ever be able to decide. It is nice to know there is a doctor who will help us. Good luck.
Steven Ross 1 year, 7 months ago
In 2011 the New York Times editorial board wrote 2 articles for parents throughout the world. The BBC, Herald Tribute, and theLondon Times have repeatedly published similar comments.
“Vaccine cleared again as Autism Culprit”, appeared on August 26, 2011: “Yet another panel of scientists has found no evidence that a popular vaccine causes autism. But despite the scientists’ best efforts, their report is unlikely to have any impact on the frustrating debate about the safety of these crucial medicines." On August 30, 2011 the NYT wrote a brief editorial on the safety of vaccines in children: “A comprehensive evaluation of eight common childhood vaccines has found that any adverse effects from vaccines are very rare or very minor. The report, issued last week by a panel of experts assembled by the Institute of Medicine, said there is no evidence that childhood vaccines cause autism, diabetes, facial palsy or episodes of asthma, as some people fear. The panel did find convincing evidence, its highest category of proof, that in rare cases vaccines have been linked to adverse effects, including seizures and inflammation of the brain. It also found that a chickenpox vaccine could cause pneumonia, meningitis or hepatitis years later if the virus, normally suppressed by the immune system, re-emerged after the immune system had been weakened. The same problems, however, are far more likely to occur in people who have not been vaccinated and become infected with chickenpox. Vaccines are a cornerstone of modern medicine and public health efforts. Vaccination eradicated smallpox and largely eliminated polio and has protected countless children from measles and other diseases. The huge health benefits of vaccines greatly exceed the small risks. Parents should take comfort in the report’s conclusions about vaccine safety. Those inclined to seek ways to have their children evade mandatory vaccinations need to recognize that vaccination is the best way to protect them from the risk of contracting dangerous diseases.”
-Steve Ross, MD
Brian Kotowski 1 year, 7 months ago
You're spitting into the wind, Doc. The anti-vaccine crowd is every bit as intransigent as 9/11 truthers.
Looking for a good time? Organize a pox party! http://www.kpho.com/story/15896021/cbs-5-investigates-mail-order-diseases
PHOENIX (KPHO) -
Doctors and medical experts are concerned about a new trend taking place on Facebook. Parents are trading live viruses through the mail in order to infect their children.
The Facebook group is called "Find a Pox Party in Your Area." According to the group's page, it is geared toward "parents who want their children to obtain natural immunity for the chicken pox."
On the page, parents post where they live and ask if anyone with a child who has the chicken pox would be willing to send saliva, infected lollipops or clothing through the mail.
Parents also use the page to set up play dates with children who currently have chicken pox.
Medical experts say the most troubling part of this is parents are taking pathogens from complete strangers and deliberately infecting their children.
One concern is that they are sending the virus through the mail.
A Facebook post reads, "I got a Pox Package in mail just moments ago. I have two lollipops and a wet rag and spit." Another woman warns, "This is a federal offense to intentionally mail a contagion."
HowardRoark 1 year, 7 months ago
Sep, you waste your time researching a fringe of society that sends spit in order to infect their kids with chickenpox, and in the same breath you imply that 9-11 truthers are somehow beneath you and your vast wisdom. Perhaps if you did some research concerning 9-11, and not 5 or 6 moms sending spit on face book you might get out of the lie you live in. I think that the over 1000 professional architects and engineers who formed A&E for 9-11 truth whom have been speaking all over the country for the past 6 years, and whom have amassed a mountain of evidence concerning 9-11 makes you look insecure and ignorant regarding 9-11. Just my opinion, and I am entitled to it. And to Dr. Ross; Getting your knowledge base about vaccines from the New York times isn't exactly good science or practice. There are plenty of doctors out there opposed to vaccines, have you ever listened to hear what they have to say and why? Doctors used to rely on anecdotal evidence; i.e they used to listen to what their patients are telling them rather than what they read in the New York times. It is callous disregard to ignore the mountain of evidence linking vaccines and autism, ADHD, and SIDS. Hubris at it's best good doctor. Here is a very informative video you might be interested in seeing that no medical student will see, but every one of them should. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hITYI...
AlphaTeam 1 year, 7 months ago
Once again there is no control group of unvaccinated humans. All of the articles that you are referencing are nothing more than the opinions and agendas of doctors, lobbyists, salesmen, whatever you want to call them. I asked you about the lack of a control group in your office and the topic was quickly changed to the Kardashian's. There is no such thing as a mandatory shot. Not yet at least. The reason? Liability. Who will take the blame if a "mandatory shot" is proven to have killed or maimed your child. Big pharma and our government have too many lawyers using words like might, may, safer, could, can cause and so on. There are no vaccines or drugs that define themselves as safe or effective for that matter. Why? Liability. This entire hoax is propagated through opinion and pitting the public against eachother. Wingnuts vs. educated elites. Democrates vs. Republicans. Broncos vs. Raiders. Take you side it doesn't matter cause it's all about triggering our tribal instincts and using that to get us to judge and attack eachother. No control group means no data, no data means worthless argument which distracts us from the real issue which is we all just want our kids to be healthy and have a better life than we did.
Phoebe Hackman 1 year, 7 months ago
More proof that a little information is a dangerous thing. You're right, Sep, there's no changing anyone's mind on this subject. But there are a few comments here I just couldn't let go.
"Not to mention the fact that these vaccines have only been around for a decade or two ..." Hmm. I got my first vaccinations when I entered school and that was pretty close to 50 years ago. The smallpox vaccination was developed around 1796, about 20 decades ago. The last case of smallpox was in 1977, due, IMHO, to an aggressive vaccination drive that had its roots in the early 1800's.
"Asthma, diabeties (sic), allergies and GI problems in our children have risen over 300% since 1989 as well." Not sure what the connection to vaccinations is. Our current obesity epidemic started in the late '80s. Prepackaged foods and fast food, loaded with fats, sugar, preservatives and salt flooded the market. But I'm sure you're right; those diseases probably are caused by vaccinations, and are in no way related to diet.
"Getting your knowledge base about vaccines from the New York times isn't exactly good science or practice." But youtube is okay.
"Autism has gone from 1 in 500,000 children 1989 to 1 in 66 today," Well, I can't find anything that backs up those numbers, but what I do find is that there is more evidence that the increase in autism diagnoses is largely due to a broader definition of autism and autism spectrum disorders. In the past, many children were misdiagnosed as being mentally retarded, learning disabled, schizophrenic, or considered to have behavioral problems. And vaccines don't explain why boys are 4 times more likely to have autism than girls, why there is a higher incidence of autism among children of older mothers, why a child is 25% more apt to be autistic if a sibling is autistic or why autism seems to have started increasing in the UK before the MMR vaccine was widely used.
"... the real issue which is we all just want our kids to be healthy and have a better life than we did." Guess why my parents, born in the '20s, had their children vaccinated. Because they wanted us to be healthy and have a better life than they did. Because they actually had friends who suffered lifelong disabilities or died from polio, measles, mumps, and diphtheria. Many friends. My siblings and I got through our childhoods with 0 friends afflicted with any of those diseases.
There are risks in everything. And I know very little about the vaccines developed after my children received their last vaccinations in the late '70s, early '80s. All vaccines can't be lumped together, though. Most of them have irrefutably benefited mankind. The jury is still out on whether others may or may not have adverse effects. But to follow a blanket policy of being anti-vaccination is foolish. It's like being anti-food because you believe meat or sugar is bad for you.
Phoebe Hackman 1 year, 7 months ago
And on the subject of the chicken pox parties ... GOOD GOD! That is possibly the grossest thing I've ever heard. No, definitely. Definitely the grossest thing I've ever heard. Surely it's occurred to those people that someone could be sending them AIDS, right???? Talk about wingnuts. Yuck. I have to go floss my brain now.
kathy foos 1 year, 7 months ago
Out of 5 children only one was allergic to shots.Everytime he recieved one he got horrrible reaction,the kindergarten booster almost killed him.Luckily a local doctor was able to give smaller dose shots,carefully monitered when given..Doctors know best and some will help your childs shot reactions with an intelligent attitude.To just say parents need to be educated is so lame.You mean brain washed and to hell with caring if one child dies because he is allergic?
heboprotagonist 1 year, 7 months ago
I find it disheartening that I need to repeat this, but I fear that Dr. Ross has cotton in his ears. So, listen up Doc- you just might learn something about bedside manner.
The problem isn't that I'm a hard-line anti-vaccine "wingnut" (as you so delicately put it). But rather that it's difficult to know what studies and doctors are trustworthy and which ones are in the pockets of big Pharma. As a relatively well-educated person, capable of intelligent conversation and critical thought I seek out professionals in the field that can speak to the vaccination issue without hiding behind their degrees or looking down their noses at me.
I don't care if you believe differently. However, as a doctor I expect you to approach the subject with empathy and the understanding that as parents we all just want to do the best for out kids. If the medical industry can find the time and money to prove that vaccines don't cause autism, why can't they fund a study to figure out what has caused the increase in autism?
You sum up your response by saying: "Those inclined to seek ways to have their children evade mandatory vaccinations need to recognize that vaccination is the best way to protect them from the risk of contracting dangerous diseases." I don't believe that any vaccines are "mandatory"- as in required by law. A doctor should really know better, & at the very least know better than to speak in such ambiguous terms.
Also, perhaps it's time YOU recognize something. Namely, stop dictating to your patients as if medicine is law and not merely the sometimes practical application of scientific theory. You seem like a man who's been in the business for too long. Patients no longer bow in deference to a medical degree. We prefer a peer relationship where we work together with our doctors to develop an individual healthcare plan. Start listening to our concerns and respond with answers that recognize our role in the matter, don't respond with statistics and NYT articles.
I can only interpret your cold indifference to our concerns as the knee-jerk reaction of man who is concerned with a threat to his income. Wanna give it another shot? This time, with feeling.
Phoebe Hackman 1 year, 7 months ago
Well said, hebo. I take care of my elderly mother and I quit taking her doctors' words as gospel quite some time ago. Over the years, my mom has been over-medicated, under-medicated, misdiagnosed, mistreated, experimented on and just plain ignored. One of my pet peeves is doctors who talk to us like we're stupid. And, not coincidentally, the ones who have given her the worst care were the ones with the God complexes. I believe most doctors have their patients' best interests at heart. But there are absolutely those who feel threatened by patients who question their "authority" and, in those cases, I think it's more about ego than money. As the primary caregivers to our children and elderly parents, we have a moral imperative to do everything within our means to protect our loved ones. That means gathering information and researching and then making the best decision we can. We SHOULD be able to get that information from those more knowledgeable on the subject (doctors), but when they are arrogant, condescending and dismissive, they should expect their opinions to be dismissed as well. Part of the problem, as I see it, is the all or nothing mentality on both sides. All vaccinations are not bad. All vaccinations are not good. And no conversation in any of these forums has ever been positive when the first guy out of the chute starts with name-calling and insults. So, yeah, Dr. Ross, give it another shot. Get down off your pedestal and talk with us, not at us.
HowardRoark 1 year, 7 months ago
Mandatory vaccines is the line in the sand. People will not stand for forced medication, and anyone that promotes that is akin to Hitler. Harsh words, I am sure, but to force a shot onto a person that does not want it is paramount to Nazism. Vaccines are complicated and have a tendency to push peoples buttons a bit harder than many other benign topics, like the Kardashians, the good Dr. likes to comment on. I had no knowledge of the Kardashians until he mentioned them as I have not had a television for a long while now (Kill your TV NOW!). I am puzzled as to why people think the Kardashians are worth their valuable time. The reason that the vaccine issue is heated is because many people have seen a direct correlation with vaccines and harm done to them either directly or indirectly. Many people have seen a correlation with vaccines in their lives and profound life altering medical issues that occurred directly after the vaccine was administered, and this information is whispered amongst those that witnessed this occur to a grandchild, a cousin, brother, sister, or child, and transferred to expecting mothers via complete stragers whom approach them and tell their story of vaccines whilst waiting in line at the airport, or deli, or anywhere these brave souls wish to share their vaccine story with anonimity. My wife was approached several times during her first pregnancy by dozens of people warning of the horrific medical hardships that they sincerely believed were caused by vaccines. To mandate something like vaccines with this much confusion, anger, hatred and downright conflict of interest, mandated by the very same people with those conflicts of interest, is a catalyst for nothing good. To insinuate that vaccines are mandatory is bordering on medical negligance coming from a Dr. Vaccines are NOT mandatory, and excemptions are available, but they don't tell you that, do they? Phoebe has some valid points here. While I am enlightened with Pheobe's comments, I am concerned with her infatuation with spelling. I would rather she spend her time looking into other sources concerning vaccines rahter then grammar, or is it grammer? She does not have to go far to find valid information, and youtube does not have to be involved. I would encourage her to read the insert for the current flu vaccine and pick apart every ingredient with a discerning mind and the best Merck Manual and Tabers dictionary she can muster. Then I would encourage her to get a PDR, and then research the history of each compund used in the vaccine with organic chemistry models of that compund. This is a lot of work, I am sure. She may find some concerning things. Rest assured that educated parents the world wide are currently doing this work and drawing conclusions that generated these debates. I would encourage all involved in this conversation to agree that mandatory vaccines are no bueno.
Phoebe Hackman 1 year, 7 months ago
Roark, aren't you a dear for noticing my superior spelling skills. I rarely have to look up how to spell a word. It's a gift. If it makes you feel any better, I suck at math and geography is a complete mystery to me. I used to produce operating procedure manuals and war game reports for the military and they are extremely picky about spelling, punctuation and grammar, so I feel my retention for things I learned in grade school has served me well. In addition, when that little red line shows up under a word indicating a misspelling, I'm just curious enough to right click on it and see what the problem is. But that's just me. As far as the ingredients in vaccines, I started researching this stuff in the early '70s when I had to make these decisions for my own children, so I am well aware of how vaccines are made. I've also done quite a bit of research on various foods that you probably consume every day. With what I know, I could probably stop you from drinking milk, consuming soy products, most cheeses, meat, fish, poultry, and a few fruits and vegetables ever again. But you could (and probably would) find numerous sources to prove me wrong. As I've said time and time again ... no matter what side of the fence someone is on about (fill in the blank), there is plenty of information available to support one's beliefs. When I was pregnant, well-meaning people advised me not to put my arms over my head (the baby could strangle), not to eat yogurt (the bacteria could harm the baby), not to take a bath (germs would get inside of me), and list goes on. Every one of those people had a story reflecting a direct correlation between these actions and harm done to their child, grandchild, cousin, aunt, sister, etc. So, while many people believe they have seen a direct correlation between vaccines and harm, at least as many have not. It seems you missed my main point, so I'll reiterate. Not all vaccinations are bad. Not all vaccinations are good. You have to weigh the risks. And, Roark, let me just add that assuming you know more than anybody else is every bit as arrogant and condescending as the medical community you are so ready to criticize. Really no bueno.
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