Dr. Kelly Victory talks about the impacts of medical marijuana on the community of Steamboat Springs during a forum Tuesday night at Bud Werner Memorial Library.

Photo by John F. Russell

Dr. Kelly Victory talks about the impacts of medical marijuana on the community of Steamboat Springs during a forum Tuesday night at Bud Werner Memorial Library.

Pot is hot topic at community meeting in Steamboat

Group hosts 1st meeting to discuss impact of medical marijuana on community

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— The seeds of a group opposing the sale of medical marijuana in Steamboat Springs were planted Tuesday night.

About 50 people attended a meeting about the increasingly controversial issue in Library Hall at Bud Werner Memorial Library. Many who attended spoke, either asking questions or expressing their opinions. All but one voiced concerns about the presence of medical marijuana in the community.

Steamboat residents Lisa Watts and Dr. Kelly Victory hosted the meeting. Watts said it wasn’t intended to debate the issue of medical marijuana but to provide information about medical marijuana and to solicit community feedback.

At its core was bringing together like-minded residents, she said.

“Our intent is to be very involved from this point forward with a unified voice about how this has negatively impacted our community,” she said.

Colorado voters approved the use of marijuana for certain medical conditions with a doctor’s recommendation in 2000 by voting in favor of an amendment to the state constitution. The amendment was supported by a majority of Routt County voters, as well. The industry didn’t explode until 2009, at which time three medical marijuana dispensaries opened in Steamboat. Another two have opened elsewhere in Routt County — one in Oak Creek and one in unincorporated Milner.

Supporters of the industry cite the will of the voters 11 years ago in allowing for medical marijuana as well as the freedom of choice it provides patients and the economic benefits licensed dispensaries bring to the community.

Steamboat Springs Police Department Chief JD Hays and Routt County Sheriff Garrett Wiggins attended Tuesday’s meeting and said arrests for driving under the influence of drugs have increased statewide and locally during the past two years.

Victory expressed her alarm at the number of county residents who have received a doctor’s recommendation and state approval to use medical marijuana. According to the most recent statistics from the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, 1,143 Routt County residents have medical marijuana cards. That’s nearly 5 percent of the county’s more than 23,500 residents, according to the 2010 census.

Victory, a Steamboat resident who said she no longer practices medicine but is a full-time consultant in the health care industry, said she’s seen how medical marijuana can positively impact people with HIV/AIDS and cancer. But that’s not what’s happening in Colorado, she said. Victory said 94 percent of the state’s medical marijuana patients cite severe pain to a doctor they’ve never met to get a recommendation for the treatment.

She called it a “mockery” of the medical profession.

“Is this what we intended when we passed Amend(ment) 20?” Victory asked. “What directives do we want to give our county commissioners, our City Council, our state legislators and our federal government about this? Because it is not being managed right now, and we have what I think is a disaster on our hands.”

Only Steamboat resident John Fielding, who said he is not a medical marijuana advocate, didn’t express concern about its presence locally. He said medical marijuana sales tax revenues could fund law enforcement and substance abuse prevention programs.

Watts and Victory encouraged everyone at the meeting to attend next Tuesday’s Steamboat Springs City Council meeting. Council members will consider a second reading of the city’s medical marijuana ordinance and November ballot language for voters to decide whether to continue allowing it in Steamboat.

They also encouraged them to attend a June 21 meeting of the Routt County Board of Commissioners, when commissioners are scheduled to discuss medical marijuana issues in unincorporated areas of the county.

Victory suggested, at the very least, that those in attendance should encourage city and county leaders to extend the statewide moratorium of new medical marijuana businesses past the July 1 deadline.

Medical marijuana supporters, including the owners of Steamboat’s three dispensaries, have said they plan to organize a group of their own opposing a ban of the industry here. Kevin Fisher, co-owner of Rocky Mountain Remedies, said last week that he plans to wait until after next week’s council meeting before formalizing the campaign.

Many who attended Tuesday’s meeting expressed their desire for a unified campaign of their own — to support a ban of medical marijuana. Several left feeling that process had begun.

“A voice by itself won’t work,” Phippsburg resident Maynard Short said. “I think they’re taking an ad hoc approach to a citizen group.”

— To reach Jack Weinstein, call 970-871-4203 or email jweinstein@SteamboatToday.com

Comments

beverly lemons 3 years, 6 months ago

I am so tired of pot heads landing in jail while those in drug cartels continue to rake in the millions while enslaving, terrorizing and murdering with impunity. Decriminalize all drugs, and use the money for treating addicts who want to be sober. The war on drugs does nothing to curb use, and allows billions of dollars to flow illegally through our country every year.

If heroin were legal tomorrow, would you use it? I wouldn't. By the way, I am neither a pot smoker or drug user, nor do I drink alchohol apart from an occasional bottle of wine with a nice meal.

I far prefer, and find it medically sound to treat pain patients with pot prior to putting them on addictive narcotics. I am sick of the few right wingers in our town who attempt to demonize medical mj to attain a political platform.

Please support the continued availability of dispensaries and mmj licenses in our county. The opposite makes utterly no sense, and serves no one but drug cartels and fear mongers.

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1999 3 years, 6 months ago

from the article......

Prescription drugs leak out onto the street in a number of ways.

In some cases, thieves steal legitimate shipments. Or doctors write false prescriptions that dealers fill and then sell the contraband.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Two weeks in a row that the pilot's police arrests in the paper had ZERO arrests for DUID. WHY DO THEY LIE?

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Bitchbee 3 years, 6 months ago

Do we think the Pharmy Companies have some investment in this movement. Most likely. My back hurts from all the hard work I do in this Community. I think I will go put on some topical MMJ. Better than IcyHot!

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sledneck 3 years, 6 months ago

War on drugs War on poverty War on illiteracy War on crime War on terrorism America has not won a war since WWll. At least the "war on civil liberties" is going pretty well.

If any of those who organized this action are reading I want to tell you just one thing: You may have the best of intentions but, if you recall, THATS what the "road to Hell" is paved with. Do not call yourself a champion of freedom, a proponent of smaller government or anything of the sort. The one person you should never try to fool... is YOU.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

"Only Steamboat resident John Fielding, who said he is not a medical marijuana advocate, didn’t express concern about its presence locally. He said medical marijuana sales tax revenues could fund law enforcement and substance abuse prevention programs."

Thank you for seemingly being the only one at the meeting that happened to represent the sane members of our society.

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Brian Smith 3 years, 6 months ago

This group is probably the same group of people that think we have a problem with noise downtown and need to have a new noise ordinance to keep things quiet...move on already.

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 6 months ago

With all due respect to Jack Weinstein, he missed printing all the facts we presented last night.

I would add a "hot" issue that was a huge component to our presentation last night: MARIJUANA IN ANY CAPACITY IS AN ILLEGAL SCHEDULE 1 SUBSTANCE ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL,

We presented recent correspondence from the US DEPT of Justice to Colorado Attorney General John Suthers officially putting Colorado on notice that the so called medical marijuana industry in Colorado is under scrutiny. John Walsh cited violation of law: money laundering and racketeering prosecution by those who take profit from an illegally operated business, (all that great sales tax revenue is ILLEGAL profit), seizure of property, (if you've rented to these folks you might want to check this out), aiding and abetting, conspiracy.....it goes on. Read it all for yourself; I will gladly forward it to you.

And the very important caveat here is that he made very clear that this is prosecution no matter the law in Colorado. Federal Law trumps State Law, just settled in the courts again last year. He further stated that State officials have no immunity.

From which a reasonable person could deduce that county and city officials would have no immunity either.

Attorney General John Suthers in turn put Governor Hickenlooper and the General Assembly on notice and has publically stated that the entire sham of MMJ "is a joke".

After a series of raids, Montana has severely restricted the industry. AZ in a c.y.a maneuver has filed to have the issue of federal v. state decided. Counties, cities, towns all across our state are moving to ban this industry in their communities. AMEX just this week refused MMJ transactions.

Hickenlooper hasn't signed HB 1043 that is still sitting on his desk; might have something to do with the fact that the FEDS notified him that it is an "illegal regulatory scheme".

I might suggest that there is something here that this community may want to pay serious attention to. You don't have the Attorney General of this state publically calling this a joke if he isn't seriously lets say "compelled" to do so.

I would further say the "potheads" have waved the "nanner nanner you can't catch me banner" literally from our mountain tops and the FEDS are showing up to clean up what the state of Colorado has let get overwhelmingly out of control.

Our city, our county all of our governing bodies owe it to this community to elevate the pot argument out of the gutters and into the realm of accountability and prudent management in light of the recent occurances. We fully intend to pose the point blank questions and will expect direct and solid answers.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa-

I wouldn't worry about cannabis being listed as a schedule 1 narcotic for much longer. We've got people working on that already. Shouldn't be much longer now.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/05/medical_marijuana_us_lawsuit.php

.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

If there is anything that is a 10th amendment issue then mmj is it. It is the most carefully defined state's right issue because it is regulated to be available only for registered citizens of the state of Colorado and states that interstate commerce of mmj is illegal.

The other way federal law trumps state law is via the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, but it does not apply to mmj since Colorado constitution via amendment 20 is granting citizens additional rights and not depriving them of federally guaranteed rights.

Colorado became a leader in state's rights issue by providing a comprehensive regulatory framework for dispensaries and caregivers. A difference between Colorado and the other states is the clarity of state regulations. So when the Feds busted Montana dispensaries they were able to argue that those dispensaries were not following state law. If the Feds had big issues with Colorado dispensaries and mmj imbued products then they could determine the address of large businesses such as Reef Cola, RMR and bust them. But busting Colorado mmj companies following Colorado law with no interstate commerce is likely to trigger a constitutional battle which the current Supreme Court could easily rule against the Feds. This is exactly the sort of issue that Scalia and crew could agree there is no federal case because the state regulates it in a way that prohibits interstate commerce of mmj.

And it makes little sense to argue that Hickenlooper won't sign HB 1043 because of the Feds when Colorado already has extensive mmj regulations. HB 1043 is also controversial because among other issues it gives the State of Colorado unprecedented information regarding medical treatment and arguably ends any doctor patient privilege in Colorado. If HB 1043 is legal then State of Colorado could also regulate doctor's prescribing of antibiotics that are currently routinely overprescribed, and so on. It is not at all unreasonable for Hickenlooper to contemplate whether HB 1043 is worse for all than current regulations. HB 1043 also further decriminalizes personal non mmj use and so arguably promotes illegal mj usage which makes little sense when the state is providing a legal means to access mmj.

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, you continue to impress with your hypocrisy and ineptitude. Aren't the three cornerstone values of your Tea Party: "fiscal responsibility, free market and limited government?" I guess these principles only apply to those issue with which you personally agree. Just embarrassing.

Let's first talk state vs. federal law and then we can move onto that other hippocrate, John Suthers. A little government 101 for you:

The Constitution and federal law are the supreme law of the land, thus preempting conflicting state and territorial laws in the fifty U.S. states and in the territories. However, the scope of federal preemption is limited, because the scope of federal power is itself rather limited. In the unique dual-sovereign system of American federalism (actually tripartite when one includes Indian reservations), states are the plenary sovereigns, while the federal sovereign possesses only the limited supreme authority enumerated in the Constitution. Indeed, states may grant their citizens broader rights than the federal Constitution as long as they do not infringe on any federal constitutional rights. Thus, most U.S. law (especially the actual "living law" of contract, tort, criminal, and family law experienced by the majority of citizens on a day-to-day basis) consists primarily of state law, which can and does vary greatly from one state to the next.

Ms. Watts, scare tactics only work on stupid people. State and federal law are very, very often incongruent. Steamboat has one of the most educated populations in the state. I encourage you to keep barking up this tree. It will make my job in November that much easier.

As for John Suthers. He, like your group, just cannot stand the idea of adults and their physicians making informed choices about their own care. He has crusaded against cannabis throughout his career and indeed exhibits that one nasty, erosive trait you share, hypocrisy. Allow me to quote the man from 2009:

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

"Colorado has seen a rapid proliferation of medical marijuana dispensaries and patients since the Justice Department earlier this year announced it would not actively prosecute medical marijuana businesses -- despite the fact that marijuana remains an illegal drug under federal law. The U.S. Attorney General's new medical marijuana policy, released today, while a clearer statement on the Justice Department's policy, relies on the faulty assumption that Colorado has clearly defined laws on medical marijuana. In fact, it does not.

"Amendment 20, written by marijuana-legalization proponents, is very vague and contains no meaningful regulatory scheme. Dispensaries and grow operations, for example, are not mentioned in either Colorado's Constitution or its statutes. This vacuum has given rise to problems I and other law enforcement leaders have highlighted over the past few months. This legal vacuum also has left Colorado's towns and cities to grapple with the state's burgeoning marijuana trade.

"For the U.S. Attorney General's new policy to have any significance for Colorado, our state lawmakers must give clarification to Amendment 20 and create a regulatory scheme for the growing medical marijuana industry."

Ma'am. The clarification is there. The most comprehensive legislation in the country has been ratified since this statement. 180 pages of it, (which I'll come back to in a moment) contained within hb 10-1284, sb-1109 and now hb-1043. Yet this man has not been appeased. Like a bloodhound on scent he will not be drawn off his prohibitionist course by distractions such as logic, rule of law, or compassion. He is simply to be mistrusted.

Finally, I'll address one of the talking points that both you and Dr. Victory seem to share. That is, your notion of a lack of regulation and oversight of this industry. This is another argument that I simply cannot believe you attempt to make with a straight face. Miss, again, there are hundreds of pages of regulations guiding the industry. We MMC's are required to have very extensive surveillance systems, accessible 24/7 by our regulatory agency, the Colorado DOR. We must track all cannabis to the final gram. We may only sell cannabis to individuals who possess a registry identification card issued by the state. Extensive background checks and the willful surrender of Constitutional rights for statutory rights are required of all employees. Hours of operation, location, signage, etc, etc are all regulated. These go far beyond any kind of regulatory scheme you often cite in the liquor and tobacco industries.

I know your side's talking points. They are based almost entirely on emotion and conjecture. I will, as we move forward, systematically dismantle all of your positions with fact and logic if need be. Until the, I hope these answers have been "direct and solid."

Kevin Fisher

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Rob Douglas 3 years, 6 months ago

Count me amongst those who believe "the feds" can go to hell. While I do believe the current situation with so-called medical marijuana is making a mockery of Colorado law, I believe even more strongly that this is an issue for Colorado to decide - not the federal government. As a libertarian and someone who believes the 10th Amendment needs to enforced, I believe the federal government should stick to screwing up all the other things they are already screwing up. Let Colorado decide this issue for herself. Repeal the medical marijuana amendment. Pass a legalization amendment.

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

Frankly Rob, I agree with much of what you suggest. Had the discussion that we had last night been reported in its entirety, that would be evident. The problem is that the current state of affairs is that there is a conflict between the Federal government and the State. I think you know that I am a strong State's rights advocate. But, until we get that conflict resolved, and come to resolution on the ultimate decriminalization and lagalization of marijuana, I think the only sane thing to do is STOP. Stop further dispensaries from popping up, stop the proliferation of a buisiness that is in conflict with existing federal law, and stop propagating an image of Steamboat as a place where you can "get around" the law. Right now, we are setting ourselves squarely in the sights of the federal government. Amongst other things, Attorneys Suthers and Walsh have made it clear that use of tax revenues from he sale of MMJ will be treated as money laundering on the federal level. Personally, I don't think it's wise to believe that we can hide behind Amendment 20. Patients with a legitimate need for marijuana have been able to get it legally in the form of Marinol, from a pharmacist, with a doctor's perscription (not recommendation) for years.

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

This so called doctor is not even from steamboat, her add in the pilot list a phone number with a 216 area code which is in the Northeastern US. That is where alot of NANEY STATE types come from, thier lives are so unfullfiling that they spend their time sticking their nose where it don't belong and spend their time among other like minded fools in all political parties except for maybe the Libertarian Party. If it is not MMJ its some other mindless cause

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Nick Ross 3 years, 6 months ago

Lousy choice for a website to argue the point. webehigh.com sounds like it originated in a non-english speaking country. Good job digging up some real junk to waste the time of the people at the meeting. Made front page for the online paper though. Nothing but false info about Steamboat on this site.

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 6 months ago

THANK YOU everyone for making the point perfectly. This is a legal mine field of unprecedented proportions. It needs to be cleaned up on the State and Federal level. Where ever you stand, whatever your personal hot button is, whatever my guess or your guess is as to how this will eventually fall out.......My intent here is that UNTIL this is accomplished, and the counties and municipalites of Colorado have clear understanding from the state who has clear understanding from the Feds, do we as a community want this repercussion, this fight, this "mockery" and mess beating down our front door? Do we want to expend our precious resources and expose our community to the battle that needs to be fought in another arena?

I agree that this is an issue for Colorado to decide as well; I am a propponent of states rights. HOWEVER, there's this not so little bitty issue that the final hammer is still held by the federal government. And unless this issue is relinquished by the Feds with a clear path for Colorado to legislate this themselves then how absolutely absurd are we for ignoring this?

I am suggesting that like many, many other communities are determing across this state, we can argue all day long on how everyone personally stands on "marijuana". And it does nothing to address where we all find ourselves right now today. We now have "legal" quagmires the magnitude of which can not even be defined.

I say take the liabilities out of our community and let the "sides" roll up their sleeves, duke it out and fight the fight where it needs to be resolved.

It is really that simple.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Who is funding this "movement"? What is their agenda? Look at the picture -- they have PROPS!! Slides. projection, smoke and mirrors -- that takes money. Whose? The AMA? Bristol Myers/Squibb? Or just their brainwashed pill-pushers? I smell a rat, and find it hard to believe someone would personally fund such a lost cause. Somebody with ambitions is behind this, mark my word.

I am not qualified to comment on the legalities, so well-detailed above; I am just comforted to read them. We already have these rights, written into our State constitution. The Federalism issues seem to be resolved. So are we going to have to defend our rights again, every time some penny-ante group like this comes along?

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't classify the Department of Justice and the Colorado Attorney General as "penny-ante". The shining of this light came down on that level a full month before I stood up and asked the question of our community........OK, so now that it is here in our face in a really big way.......what are our local governments going to do about it? What does our community want to do about it?

That's it. It's here. I certainly didn't bring it but I sincerely think it is completely appropriate and responsible to ask our elected officials what they intend to do about it and put the entire issue before our community.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Also, to the mockery charge - I cynically note the medical profession has a long extensive history of questionable, if not outrageous, writing on prescription drugs. How mmj can make a mockery of what is already indefensible is beyond me.

Prescription antibiotics are grossly overprescribed for medical situations such as the common cold for which they have no benefit and thus greatly contribute to the creation of drug resistant strains that kill people.

Doctor shopping to get prescriptions for various narcotics has been a recognized problem for decades. Even a high profile person like Rush Limbaugh is able to simultaneously have doctors writing prescriptions for narcotics. Not a criticism of Rush as he has acknowledged that did him no good and he has recovered, but an example that there is no significance regulation of doctors and patients to stop patients from getting too many narcotic drugs.

Off label writing of prescriptions is a huge problem where a drug is approved for one purpose and then doctors write prescriptions for other uses. Fen-phen apparently injured 50,000 people for a weight loss combination that was never approved.

During the prohibition of alcohol, it was possible to get a doctor's prescription for alcohol. It was the selling of alcohol that fueled the exponential growth of Walgreen's during Prohibition. The medical profession survived that mockery of doctors writing prescriptions for alcohol which is a known killer.

Legalization is the long term goal, but first it needs to be legal in a relatively highly regulated environment so that the claimed harms of mj can be shown to be unfounded. That mmj is not a gateway drug causing an huge increase in heroin usage. As seen by this "Got Pot" crowd, there does seem to be people unable to recognize that mj existed prior to Colorado dispensaries and that the percentage of Colorado population reporting usage in the last 30 days has remained about 5%. That the number of mmj patients in Routt County is approaching 5% and so indicates mj users becoming legal and not some explosion in local mj usage. That dispensaries can be competently operated and not sell to kids and grow their own instead of buying from drug cartels.

The medical profession has also been bastardized by it's involvement in capital executions which is a direct contradiction of the Hippocratic Oath.

So if the temporary bastardization of the medical profession for sympathetic doctors to write recommendations for mmj which has been shown to not be a deadly drug (mj overdoses, unlike alcohol, do not routinely, if ever, kill people) and has modest long term health effects, certainly less than alcohol or tobacco, then so be it. I think the medical profession will survive this transgression. If it wakes up and inspires moralists in the medical profession then they have enough other major more deeply entrenched sins to rectify and this one will be easy enough to fix by simply supporting legalizing mj

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

Ah yes -- It's a vast Right-Wing conspiracy. We're funded by big business, those monilithic and evil pharmaceutical companies, the Tea Party, pehaps even Sarah Palin herself! Sorry guys -- Just a simple, plain-Jane, grass roots effort by a few citizens who think there's a legitimate discussion to be held. We personally funded the ads, rented the room, and did the leg work to pull the information together. We are in a legislative and legal mess, and some of us think that needs to get sorted out. The current state of affairs is untenable. and we aren't doing anybody (including purveyors of MMJ dispensaries) any good to proceed without addressing the legal issues and coming to some resolution. The statistics that we reported last evening were all footnoted as to their sources. If you want to believe that we presented "smoke and mirrors", then your beef is with the Colorado Department of Health and Environment, because that's where the majority of the stats came from. With regard to the potential impact on our community image, we simply presented information that's out there and available to the public so that people could draw their own conclusions-- We didn't "make up" these web sites -- We showed actual screen shots. That's about as objective as you can get.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa - I didn't call the DOJ or CO AG penny-ante -- I called THIS GROUP penny-ante!! You are fired by an irrational fear I have yet to identify, and your rhetoric is a barely-controlled rant. Why are you so emotional about this?

We are all still waiting to hear ONE threat the dispensaries pose. Image? You don't think some people actually COME HERE for that? Our youth? Are you so sheltered as to believe the dispensaries provide anything they couldn't get already, any time they wanted it? What is ONE DANGER the dispensaries present? And why are you so upset that so many took advantage of their new rights?

I'll bet you were a hall monitor, too. Some lives are so petty, they feel they must control others, in warped compensation.

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cait holmes 3 years, 6 months ago

So whens the meeting for us that oppose the ban because I'm damn sure there will be more then 50 people there

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, Lisa, Well, I wouldn't suggest the City issue bonds secured by mmj sales tax revenues, but by now I think the feds could have located any number of Colorado dispensaries. But important legal decisions are often made in cases with particular facts. And busting a purely intrastate Colorado dispensary operating according to state law is exactly the sort of special situation that causes an important decision on the limits of federal powers. So the feds presumably have not busted Colorado dispensaries not because they have been unable to locate businesses selling mj, but because they do not want to deal with the risks of losing a ruling on the legal issues. You think things are wide open right now? What happens if a federal court says Colorado mmj is not a federal issue?

At the very least, since the good voters of Colorado pass Amendment 20 and the legislature has passed comprehensive legislation regulating dispensaries then to the extent there are remaining legal questions then can allow Mr Ryan Fisher to assess the legal situation and take those risks. It makes no sense for everyone else to become constitutional scholars and change our local laws allowing compassionate use of mmj because of what the feds might do. We can do what we think is right and to the extent that raises a federal issue then we can be prepared if the courts rule against RMR. So as long as the city does not allow itself to become dependent upon mmj dispensary revenues then we will be fine.

The threat that somehow local government taxes would be money laundering is a crock as long as the local government is following state law. The Oakland California situation that generated one of the more notable Justice dept memos was rather unique because Oakland's plan was to allow grow operations that couldn't rationally be considered to follow state law.

The City of SS is not liable if the feds bust RMR. The City certainly is operating under a legal opinion that the City is following state law. So if RMR is busted then the feds are not going to go back and try to take money from local governments. They do not take government tax money when busting some business for being an illegal operation.

So there is no rational reason to ban local mmj operations because of a fear that the feds have not fully accepted that states have the right for intrastate commerce of something highly regulated to prevent interstate commerce.

By your logic, states need to hurry up and fully implement ObamaCare because that is the federal law of the land.

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa-

Facts catch you off guard? Can't reply to legitimate debate?

The Feds are hypocrites just as Lisa and Victory and it is the BIG MONEY that stands in the way of mmj. Reference here the fact that if you have the $$$ you can grow pot legally under federal direction:

http://whyprohibition.ca/blogs/jacob-hunter/dea-licenses-55-marijuana-licenses-big-pharma-refuses-university-researchers

We cannot and WILL NOT wait for the federal government to pass the necessary laws patients need to have access to their meds. Without the states (16 of 'em plus D.C.- who's law, by the way, was ratified by the U.S. House as per charter regs) moving forward on this issue, the big pharma lobby money would forever keep this effective treatment out of reach.

The most current petition to the DEA to reclassify cannabis from schedule I to schedule II has been unanswered since 2002. The previous request sat unanswered for 22 years despite the fact that in 1988 the DEA’s own Administrative Law Judge Francis Young stated that, “Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man.” He recommended “the Administrator transfer marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule II to make it available as a legal medicine.”

We, in Colorado, have taken action with amendment 20 to undo this injustice. To pretend that the wise path locally is to again abide by said injustice is callous, thoughtless and self-serving.

Don't like marijuana? Don't use it. But in the meantime, don't tread on me!

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

Oh, by the way, to address the money laundering issue. The IRS has established a satellite field office with direct communication to the CO DOR to ensure the proper taxation of our industry. They, the IRS, have accepted my payments for nearly two years. If we are, in fact, laundering funds, then the Federal Government, itself, has been complicit.

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pitpoodle 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa. "I am a propponent of states rights". In addition to your spelling, that comment is pure BS.

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nurmidst 3 years, 6 months ago

What exactly are these "impacts" on our community? I would like to here some facts, law enforcement states arrests are up for driving under the influence, are convictions up are other driving related arrests up are there more drivers in the state? Are arrests for driving under the influence of alcohol up also lets see some statistics if this is an issue! arrests could be up simply because you are arresting more people are they being convicted or are you simply clogging up our judicial system with weak arrest? @1campbell I LAUGH OUT LOUD at your comment Miss Victory states she is a consultant for the medical industry what do you think that is? Consultant/hired gun this cause will look great on her resume when shopping for work within the INDUSTRY! This whole group kills me lead by teabagger Lisa Watts how in the world does this group get any respect when they are a bunch of undercover right wing republicans so ashamed of their parties past that they have to change their name to disassociate themselves from the damage they have done to our country in the last decade?

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freerider 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa

The only mockery out there is the AMA... they kill more people than die on the highways each year with their pharmaceuticals

you and your kind should move to North Korea if you like government control

Ignorance and arrogance go hand and hand once again

baaaa baaaaa baaaaaa

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

So when government goons shut down tax paying legal herb stores will the black market guys donate $1000 a month to charity the way one local herb store does ? Will they pay income and sales taxes? Will the underground guys sell only to card holders and those with medical needs over the age of 21? Will these people that replace the guys on Downhill dr sell only MMJ? Of course not, The Blackmarket crew will have Meth, Cocaine, XTC, Molley and if your luckey maybe even some of those drugs the good Doctor from Ohio is not at war with like Oxycotin, Hydromorphine, Morphine Sulfate, Ritalin or what ever Big Pharma has to offer.

*Make it Legal* If we were all Adults in this Country this would not be a issue. Marijuana would legal and Drugs like Meth and Cocaine would be DeCrimalized to drive the price down and free up jail space for crimes that have a real victim however to keep the crime down it would still have to be illegal to bring it in the Country. Impose the death penalty on those who try to smuggle anything in since human smuggling is a major problem. Law enforcement would still have lots to do without the War on Drugs, chirdren are forced into prostitution after they are brought North thinking their on thier way to meet family in Los Angeles. Cops stoping crime where there are real victims, seems like that would be more rewarding than busting a guy for growing a few plants.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

50 people is all you could get? I bet most were law enforcement. 2 weeks of ZERO DUID'S booked into Routt County Jail.

Lisa You want to take away MY RIGHTS. Rights givin to me under state law. SHAME ON YOU! YOU ARE VERY UNAMERICAN IN MY BOOK! MOVE TO UTAH WHERE THEY MIGHT CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR JIBBERISH!

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freerider 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa

the other thing here that what you stand for along with Wiggins and Rae is to rule with a cane and a whip

Or I should say a badge , a gun and jail ....and immoral and racist laws

If North Korea is not to your liking then perhaps Syria would suit you better

FYI the Hi-way patrol say that cell phones and text messaging along with impaired drivers from pharmaceuticals are now more of a hazard than drunk drivers

why don't you go get on your soapbox about that

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

I went to this "meeting". It could only stand it for about 20 minutes. The room was full of 50 or so people that all had their minds made up before they attended the meeting. The info did not "teach" anyone anything new.

This meeting and this "organization" (I like to call the R-DoubleC-A-DoubleM) has developed because inside themselves they know that more people that not in Routt County SUPPORT medical marijuana and the local Centers and that if they have any hope in November supporting a ban, they need to try their best at scare tactics. As Kevin stated, scare tactics only work on stupid people and we live in very well educated community.

To look into the Federal Government's standpoint on medical marijuana is will only confuse people. The Feds have stated out of one side of their mouth that the states are enabling medical marijuana money laundering operations, yet out of the other side of their mouth they have given licenses to produce and research cannabis to some 55 large dollar corporations.

Go ahead, R-DoubleC-A-DoubleM, get your checkbooks ready to fund your campaign, dust off your stetsons, shine up your pot-head-stompin'-boots, and tighten that belt on your stranglers, because this here exploitation and COmmericialiZATION of Routt County is going to get very spicy when the State votes to legalize it for everyone 21 and up Statewide in 2012. We have a VERY good chance of seeing it happen. In Denver County, it's already legal for anyone over 21 to possess up to 1 ounce of marijuana....same with the City of Breckenridge.

Hmmmmmmmm, why aren't the Feds going crazy all over Breckenridge, I mean that whole community must be a bunch money-laundering, degenerate criminals! Let's ask Breck how it works over there and see if the "image" has been "negatively impacted" a single bit. Someone from the R-DoubleC-A-DoubleM should get on those stats, please....Lisa? Doc(s)? Wiggins? Breckenridge seems pretty successful and busy whenever I'm there...same it always has been.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

Couple typos...forgive me. I'm human. I make mistakes, but I guess I am a human that smokes pot, so that gives you "better and smarter" humans the right to treat me differently. Which IS bigotry in it's purest definition.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

“They tax our land, they tax our bed, tax the table at which we are fed,” she said, clad in an American flag shirt. “They tax our work, they tax our pay, we work for peanuts, anyway.”

Watts was speaking at the 2011 Tax Day Freedom Rally hosted by the Bears Ears Tea Party Patriots at the courthouse.

So you want us to REFRAIN and obey Federal law but you stand on the Moffat County Courthouse lawn and BASH our federal govt. MAKES ALOT OF SENSE!

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Here's a capital idea, how to fight fire with fire, or idiocy with ludicrousness, as the case may be:

Let's form our own group: How about the YID's? Short for, Yes I support Dispensaries. (that third s got pesky) YIDS to the RESCUE!! We could have our own meeting. It will be agreed well in advance, where and when, maybe right in this forum. How many people could we get to show up?

Maybe we could pass our own little petition, calling for full legalization, right here in Routt County!! Just like Denver. Why not? Applying the same principles as nation over state, should not state also be over county, where the latter can enact any legislation they vote in, as long as it doesn't usurp the rights of the former? Legal minds, please comment on this facet -- I see an opportunity here. Let's vote it IN!!

And some feedback on our own group, YIDs if you will, would be welcome as well.

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

Personally, I think legalizing it makes a lot of sense. That has been my position for years, as that would likely have a positive impact with regard to the illegal drug trade, cartels, etc. If/when it is fully legalized, then hopefully reasonable regulations would be placed to keep the substance out of the hands of minors, etc. We could also drop the "shroud" of medical marijuana that is currently being abused. Many, many people are currently getting the drug for recreational purposes only, by virtue of having a card that indicates that they have a debilitating medical condition -- At $140 a pop, the physicians responsible for writing the 124,000 recommendations in the state of Colorado are making almost $19Million in fees. Legalization could go a long way to cleaning all of this up. In addition, some of the mystique and over-the-top marketing would hopefully fall away as a result -- But we're not there yet. So the question remains, how should we as a community proceed given the current state of affairs?

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

I know, I know, I always take it to another level, pushing the envelope, as it were. Never said I was shy. Still, our group and maybe our own petition are something to think about, then act on. Stand up for what we believe in, and make our presence known.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

I just don't have great faith in these forums, or at least their ability to change minds, as people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe, in support of their predisposition going in. All they see is more proof of their argument. I believe the average voter in Routt County is too intelligent to fall for these desperate prohibition attempts, and will easily defeat them at the polls. I was just thinking we should get organized and get our own legislation in there, partly as an act of self-defense.

Nobody changes their mind. We need to change the law.

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

Since Amendment 20 is a States Rights issue and if this happens to end up in the Conservative Pro States Rights Supreme Court in DC just how do you think this will end Lisa? MMJ has support on both sides of the isle and a true conservative will side with states rights ever time unless someones civil right are being violated by the state in question. There are no victims here, a 7-2 decision could be made on this issus.
What I don't understand is why a Tea Party member would side with the Feds, most people I know in the Liberty Movement myself included think the Feds should be alot less involved in our personal lives and Medical choices. I find it hard to believe that someone could be opposed to Obama Care and not be for a Patients right to pick their own Doctor or alternative care like MMJ. I wonder how many of your fellow Tea Party Pals go home and load the bong to just relax and maybe forget about that a third of their day was spent working to pay old Uncle Sam. I may not be a card holder/patient but its a nice way to relax and take the edge off every once in a while and no crappy feeling the next day as with a 6 pac or shots.

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

Nothing to see here. No big pharma connections to note.

By SHANNON MORTLAND 11:26 am, March 17, 2008

Drugstore giant Walgreen Co. has agreed to buy Whole Health Management of Cleveland.

Click Here!

Walgreen announced this morning it has created a Health & Wellness division with the pending purchase of Whole Health Management and I-trax Inc. of Chadds Ford, Pa. Both of those companies run on-site health care clinics for large companies. Walgreen said it bought I-trax for $278 million in cash, but terms of the deal for Whole Health were not disclosed.

Both deals are to close within 90 days.

Though details of the merger have yet to be finalized, Whole Health will not be moving out of Cleveland, said James Hummer, founder, president and CEO of Whole Health. He said Whole Health and I-trax will continue to operate autonomously. Dr. Kelly Victory, president of Whole Health’s Live Whole Health division, said the plan is for Whole Health to stay in operation in Cleveland.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

1Campbell, Dr. Victory.

Answer to your question: The community should support it's City Council's decision, it's elected officials, 4-3 in favor of our businesses.

They supported our 3 businesses from the beginning. Then Aloha's squeaked in and hammered the community with ridiculous marketing "ploys".

Let's all simply turned our attention to where it belongs....someone should petition to simply ban MMC's in all unincorporated Routt County. Hayden made there decision. Oak Creek & Steamboat had a good thing going. Then Aloha's created an uproar and I don't disagree with the uproar, if it was truly focused at the perpetrator of the ridiculous ADs.

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Jesiah Canady 3 years, 6 months ago

The fact still stands that just because you ban it does NOT mean they will quit using it. That includes all the minors who use it now.

I was home-schooled for my entire K-12 education, my father is a minister and I was not allowed to socialize with "potheads". Yet even back in middle school I knew where to get it. The same kind of person that sold it then will sell it to this generation, and I guarantee those dealers will be out in force the day after you ban it. Anyone remember how much money those guys were making when MJ was three times as expensive as the dispensaries sell it now? Where do you think that money was spent?

But hey, if they ban it they can feel comfortable that the sale of MJ is in hiding again. They can all stick their heads back in the sand and be contented with the lie that the government (fed or state) has it under control.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

So Kelly was pres of a corprate DRUG company. Makes total hypocritical sense to me now. Not for our community at all. SELF GAIN. Lisa Watts likes to stand up and parade herself in front of a crowd and be a soapboxer. She calls that "AMERICAN" I GUESS? How funny. You gals asked for this abuse by trying to take my rights away. SHAME ON BOTH OF YOU! I DON'T CONTRIBUTE 1% to you exaggerated lies you spew to people that listen. NOT 1%! You assume things. The pilot confirms no DUIDS in two weeks. NO mmj related arrests. LIES LIES LIES!

I agree some should not smoke pot but YOU shouldn't lie to everyone. Especially those who know the TRUTH! Even if its only 50 of them! (sorry JJ) i ment 49 of them.

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1999 3 years, 6 months ago

I wondered if Our Kelly Victory was the same as that Kelly Victory from Whole health.

what a sham.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh the plot thickens doesn't it Miss Victory.

BAHAHAHAHAH

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

Thanks Jesiah....we needed a little fresh, outside, sensible input. Very well stated.

Muck, you crack me up...in such a good way. Keep up the good work, soldier. Remember, Victory claims we are in a battle...

But, the victory will be ours, quite easily it looks like....when the naysayers can only use webehigh.com as a visual aid. That website is pure garbage and the info on that site has been there for over 10years. Ever read The Onion? webehigh.com and The Onion (theonion.com) are very much on the same level...satirical humor in print.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

hmmmm.....

All of that info about "Dr." Victory is highly curious to me, seeing as how there's about to be a Walgreens right here in Steamboat.

huh....

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

I think that the numbers speak for themselves.

Either the naysayer side of the debtate is too computer illiterate to come on here and make their voices heard on these comment boards, or they don't have a valid argument to voice, or they just aren't there in the first place.

Because, at least in speaking on the number of naysayers vs the number of yaysayers, we've got the naysayers beat....by a long haul.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

routter -- Great detective work!! I KNEW somebody was grinding their axe for a reason, and I still wonder about Ms Watts' motivations. If Dr. Victory (got any birth-certificate detectives out there?) is indeed involved with the new Walgreens here, you will NEVER see my footprints in that store. Somehow I detect political ambitions at work, and something tells me we haven't heard the last from these two -- ladies, I will say, while possibly granting great latitude with the term. I could think of others. Duck and cover.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

I just hope we turn out in the same proportion at the polls as in the forums.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa and Kelly-

You do realize that when Kevin and JJ get the battle plan together, i bet more than 1,000 people show up for their first meeting. You realize that your gonna look even more ridiculous. And they wont need visuals of a WEB sight that has NOTHING to do with Steamboat Springs. It will be fact! FACTS is what will crush your movement. I was on a Jury Trial last year in Routt County. It was a marijuana case. The laywer asked over 40 jurors if anyone has ever smoked pot. These are Routt County residence. LISA and Kelly just so you know 38 people raised their hands to say yes at one time they have tried marijuana. Old and Young. 38 of the 40 said yes. Those 38 know the truth about pot. How it works. What it does. How they can relate. EVEN THEY KNOW YOU ARE BOTH LIARS! Lets not forget those who Don't even have MMJ cards. Oh wait, duhh thats a no brainer. So what kind of community do you think WE ALREADY ARE? I mean Steamboat Town board is ALREADY IN FAVOR. Even after Capt. Joel Rae asked to strike them down. THE LIES ARE GONNA END! YOUR FICTION HAS NO FACT ANYMORE.

WHERE THE HECK IS YOUR EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE MENACE YOU LIE ABOUT? WHERE IS YOUR FACTS? PLEASE SHOW US. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Miss Victroy is also a Trustee for the Town Hall Speakers of Cleveland. She thrives on debate. So Miss V. did you tell all 49 people that cared about your meeting that you are in favor of LEGALIZATION? OR DID YOU LIE TO THEM ALSO?

Dont worrie we will show them your post to this thread and your past since we know who you are. We will let all of STEAMBOAT know that you don't want MMJ dispensarys but you want LEGALIZATION.

Good luck with your campaign.

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

You guys are really funny -- Hot and bothered and libeling people, but apparently not sophisitcated enough to do your homework. The company I ran (Whole Health) had absolutely nothing to do with pharmaceuticals or drug companies. We ran on-site clinics for Fortune 100 companies. We sold the company in 2008 to Walgreen's, and despite the opportunity for a fabulously lucrative job following the acquisition, I left on the day of the signing because 1) I didn't want to work for a drug store, and 2) despite their expressed interest in becoming a "health and wellness" company, they refused to stop selling cigarettes and I couldn't in good conscience be a the Chief Medical Officer of a company that make three quarters of a billion dollars in tobacco revenues. These facts are well known, as I have spoken publically about them in many venues since I left in 2008. I have no affiliation with Walgreens and there is certianly no love lost between us. So it would appear, that you are the ones speading lies.

With regard to your question about legalization, I was just as open on that issue last night, and have never his my stance on that issue. We were very clear that last night's discussion was not going to focus on that particular debate, however. Unlike you muck, I don't need to hide my identity or my beliefs, regardless of my audience. I wear them on my sleeve, and I stick to my principles, even if it means having to turn down a big fat position with a big fat paycheck.

And, just so you don't have to tax yourselves learning more about my background, I am also on the Leadership Counsel of The Harvard School of Public Health (you know, that bastion of conservatism) and speak frequently on healthcare issues at the Harvard Business School. I am sure you can find some way that makes me a racist or a homophobe..

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Kelly- As much as you assume things your "hiding" means nothing to me. I mean zero harm to you. I conduct myself in a professional NON-LIAR mode. I dont try to sugar coat the facts. I dont tell people that its a "DISCRACE" to the medical field when in 2009 the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION asked the federal govt. to drop the class 1 status of marijuana so they can study it. I would think that if you were a REAL DOCTOR you would support the group that signed your certificate. I have NOTHING to do with any dispensary anywhere. ZERO. ZILCH. It does however offend me greatly that you want to lie to a group of people and take away MY STATE RIGHTS! MY RIGHTS, NOT YOURS. I ASK YOU AGAIN! PROVIDE ME WITH FACTS! If not for me, all the other people that read this CRAP.

FACTS FACTS FACTS FACTS WHERE ARE THEY???????????????????????????????????????????????

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

AP June 1st 2011 NEW YORK (AP) - The global war on drugs has failed and governments should explore legalizing marijuana and other controlled substances, according to a commission that includes former heads of state, a former U.N. secretary-general and a business mogul.

A new report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy argues that the decades-old "global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world." The 24-page paper will be released Thursday.

"Political leaders and public figures should have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately: that the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem, and that the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won," the report said.

The 19-member commission includes former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and former U.S. official George P. Schultz, who held cabinet posts under U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. Others include former U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker, former presidents of Mexico, Brazil and Colombia, writers Carlos Fuentes and Mario Vargas Llosa, U.K. business mogul Richard Branson and the current prime minister of Greece.

Instead of punishing users who the report says "do no harm to others," the commission argues that governments should end criminalization of drug use, experiment with legal models that would undermine organized crime syndicates and offer health and treatment services for drug-users in need.

The commission called for drug policies based on methods empirically proven to reduce crime, lead to better health and promote economic and social development. The commission is especially critical of the United States, which its members say must lead changing its anti-drug policies from being guided by anti-crime approaches to ones rooted in healthcare and human rights. "We hope this country (the U.S.) at least starts to think there are alternatives," former Colombian president Cesar Gaviria told The Associated Press by phone. "We don't see the U.S. evolving in a way that is compatible with our (countries') long-term interests." The office of White House drug czar Gil Kerlikowske said the report was misguided. "Drug addiction is a disease that can be successfully prevented and treated. Making drugs more available - as this report suggests - will make it harder to keep our communities healthy and safe," Office of National Drug Control Policy spokesman Rafael Lemaitre said. That office cites statistics showing declines in U.S. drug use compared to 30 years ago, along with a more recent 46 percent drop in current cocaine use among young adults over the last five years. The report cited U.N. estimates that opiate use increased 34.5 percent worldwide and cocaine 27 percent from 1998 to 2008, while the use of cannabis, or marijuana, was up 8.5 percent.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

1Campbell -- I still don't understand how you can support full legalization (where the dispensaries become just stores) while yet attacking mmc's. We have yet to hear of ONE THREAT they pose, more than just you think it's being abused. Local character? Our youth? WHAT IS YOUR PLATFORM? I think you just like the spotlight on YOU.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

WHOOOOOOOOOOOO NELLY! Kelly you quit working for Walgreens cause they sold tobbaco and yet your all for LEGALIZATION but not in favor of MMJ despensarys.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Kelly let me help you with some facts.

HARDVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL..... YOUR SCHOOL

APRIL 2010 The movement to legalize marijuana for medical use in the United States has renewed discussion about how this drug affects the brain, and whether it might be useful in treating psychiatric disorders.

Unfortunately, most of the research on marijuana is based on people who smoked the drug for recreational rather than medical purposes. A review by researchers in Canada (where medical marijuana is legal) identified only 31 studies (23 randomized controlled trials and eight observational studies) specifically focused on medical benefits of the drug.

A separate review by the American Medical Association (AMA) also concluded that the research base remains sparse. This was one reason that the AMA urged the federal government to reconsider its classification of marijuana as a Schedule 1 controlled substance (prohibiting both medical and recreational use), so that researchers could more easily conduct clinical trials.

Consensus exists that marijuana may be helpful in treating certain carefully defined medical conditions. In its comprehensive 1999 review, for example, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concluded that marijuana may be modestly effective for pain relief (particularly nerve pain), appetite stimulation for people with AIDS wasting syndrome, and control of chemotherapy-related nausea and vomiting.

Given the availability of FDA-approved medications for these conditions, however, the IOM advised that marijuana be considered as a treatment only when patients don't get enough relief from currently available drugs. Additional research since then has confirmed the IOM's core findings and recommendations.

Although anecdotal reports abound, few randomized controlled studies support the use of medical marijuana for psychiatric conditions. The meager evidence for benefits must be weighed against the much better documented risks, particularly for young people who use marijuana.

Key points Medical marijuana may be an option for treating certain conditions, such as nerve pain or chemotherapy-related nausea.

There is not enough evidence to recommend medical marijuana as a treatment for any psychiatric disorder.

The psychiatric risks are well documented, and include addiction, anxiety, and psychosis.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

PLEASE! FACT ME! EVEN YOUR SCHOOL SUPPORTS MORE TESTS.

FACTS? ANYONE?

PLEASE ANYONE!

WHERE IS YOUR FACTS? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY DO YOU? JUST LIES?

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

Routter If this Dr Victory is the Whole Health / Walgreens Kelly Victory then this event on Tuesday night and all her talk may have been a way for her to create a news story that was ment for her to look good in front of the Shareholders of Walgreens and Whole Health, Make her look tough a real bu!! kicker putting the locals out of business. If this Whole Health/ Walgreens long term plan is to get in the MMJ business on a large scale this may be one way of going about it, they may even have politicians paid off others re writing the Health Care Bill that would give Whole Health/Walgreens an exclusive right to sell MMJ nation wide and when Whole Health/ Walgreens reaches their goal They will just toss Dr V and Lisa Watts under the bus.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm not sure that anyone on "Dr." Victory's side of the debate has much of a detailed punch list on what the facts are that they're supposed to be listing as logical reason(s) for the establishment of their fancy little group. You don't like dispensaries, we get it. You claim to want cannabis legalized but most of us can't digest that because of your paramount involvement with "Routt County Country Folk Pothead Haters", or whatever it's called. So what's really going on? Kids with pot? Steamboat's image? Real estate values? DUID's? Show us the figures from a reputable source, that's all that we want to see. And, if I'm not mistaken, it seems like that's the only thing that most of us have ever asked for in the first place; the facts from your side of the debate with viable sources. If you have the right to form a group that questions our motives as people who choose to use cannabis, then we all have the right to run you and your little group through the gambit of our questions about your motives. If we religiously get left with so little fact and/or data from your side of the debate, what other logical conclusion can we draw than that you don't have a valid argument?

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Just to show good faith, here's some good ol' fashioned facts. An excellent set of fact sheets with a bunch of pictures and everything. And if you don't like the source, maybe you should take it up with AP.

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/drug_war/index.html?SITE=MALOW

.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

Dr. Victory, I commend you if what you say is true about your involvement with & dissolvement with the Walgreens/Whole Health thing.
But, as someone passionate about what I do, I ask of you also to answer our question.

Where DO we go from here?

What are your motives? Where IS the negative impact?

I am not someone to attack others for what they do. But I am someone who defends what I do.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Open letter to the two scumbags that came to Oak Creek Tuesday to score some pot:

Just because you can read some online posts and figure out where in Oak Creek some mmj patients live does not mean you late 40s couple in your Audi with out of state plates have any right to spent a bunch of time Tuesday trying to score some mj from a disabled person on oxygen that is easy confused. I guess I am protective of my disabled tenants. It is absolutely sickening how some people will prey on disabled people. I have seen how disabled people with their own difficulties will be overly generous and trusting of others that claim to have issues. I have driven around town to find a mobility scooter loaned to a drunk that was "not feeling well" and not returned. And other situations of people trying to scam disabled tenants.

I saw you two there on Tuesday sitting on the steps. I thought you might be their friends and so left you alone, but now I am ticked off.

It is absolutely unacceptable for you to try to exploit disabled people to score your mj. If I see you or your type again there then I will take pictures, call the police and if they won't do anything then I will post your pictures online.

If you people without mmj licenses want to score some pot then stay the hell out of Oak Creek and definitely stay away from my tenants!

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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Allow me to show the rants of Lisa Watts in her e-mail response to me: but first I'll put forth my e-mail to her: " So, let's see. You want to lead the fight to ban marijuana dispensaries but you aren't interested in marijuana? Huh? I was the Public Defender in Steamboat Springs from 1975 to 2004 and during that time I NEVER represented anyone in thr four counties of Northwest Colorado who committed a violent crime or a burglary while under the influence of marijuana. While on the other hand, at LEAST one-half of my clients were under the influence of alcohol during the crimes that they committed. What is your problem with marijuana? Alcohol has hugh social and medical costs in our society (let alone paying me to represent alcohol-intoxicated people out of your tax dollars). Why not urge the council to put a question on the ballot to ban alcohol sales? At least put your efforts into combating all the ills and vices of alcohol. Start with broken families and abused humans for a start. Do you really think that if marijuana dispensaries are banned that Steamboat will be rid of marijuana? If so, you need to get a life.Marijuana is the largest cash crop in the USA.The ONLY reason that the Feds keep marijuana illegal is due to the massive force of the liquor industry and the gutless Congress. Afraid that do-gooders such as you would vote them out. Frankly, I'd be willing to wager that one-half of Congress has inhaled in their lifetime as has one-half of the US population. Lisa, oh by the way, you live in the county. What's with that? You cannot legally vote in the city election.Guess my vote will outnumber yous."

Well here goes the reply (rant): "I must disclose right up front that your personal stats as a public defender of those facing criminal prosecution for crime committed will never influence me one iota. (My comment, don't confuse me with the facts). But I know that is one of those foggy(?) pro things thrown out there. So, I suggest you assimilate your facts and present them as bona fide reality. (Comment: huh?)

Marijuana on every federal level is illegal. Federal law thumps state law, settled again last year. (Comment: thanks for the legal lesson) US Attorney John Walsh just put Colorado on notice.Don't see Hickenhooper signing HB 1043 do you? Aint' it just sittin' on his desk? Alcohol is legal; like it of not.It is legal. Beating that horse is a weak case-arguing a controlled substance vs. a legal one has never been successful

If you can argue effectively past all that then I will continue this conversation. Otherwise Mr. Schurman, with all due respect to your legal background, you have no defense and I most certainly can stand on mine without further discussion.

I know all the poor arguments. The point is, if you can't get past the biggie....."it is illegal and the FEDS are coming". Then what exactly is it about "marijuana" we have to discuss?

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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa,

Oh my GOD, Steamboat is up in marijuana smoke. What will the world think?? Wow, no more tourists, we'll all go broke. Damn those dammed marijuana dispensaries anyhow. Before them there was no marijuana in Steamboat. And, when we ban them there will again be no marijuana in Steamboat Springs and the tourists will flock to this wonderful community. If you believe that you are living in a dream world.

So paying me to defend hundreds if not thousands of intoxicated people charged with all sorts of crimes including first degree murder, vehicular homicide, assaults of all criminal classifications means nothing to you, then something is indeed wrong with you. Alcohol is a major social and medical issue but you choose to simply ignore the matter because it is legal. I must assimilate my facts? Please, what world do you live in? Have you ever been in the Courts of Northwest Colorado to watch criminal proceedings? I have been since 1975. I know wherein I speak rather you choose to ignore it or not.Facts are facts.

Marijuana is Federally illegal because the gutless members of Congress say so. Madam I suggest to you that one-half of congress has inhaled as have at least one-half of the USA population. "The Feds are coming" do you really believe that? You should be camped out at the USA's Office demanded to stop to this illegal marijuana dispensary goings on in my fair city. (Oops, apparently not yours as the phone listing has you residing in the county). Isn't that your real cause??

Yea, lets put an end to the scourge of that damned marijuana in Steamboat Springs. Close the dispensaries and good bye marijuana!!!

By the way, if you have never inhaled then your position is out of pure ignorance

Have a good day, and you will see me voting in the city election.

Bill Schurman

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nurmidst 3 years, 6 months ago

Yes Dr. Victory i think the thing most people dont get is what is the motive for someone to be so up in arms about something that has very little to do with them personally, I think most of us have a live and let live attitude so it is hard to understand why people get involved so deeply with something that has basically nothing to do with them that is where the suspicion comes from. Take Lisa Watts for instance what does this have to do with her how is it affecting her? Is her husband in law enforcement, work in the district attorney office or a politician looking to oust someone who voted in favor of this issue? She speaks as a Tea Party member whose mission statement is in opposition to big government involvement yet is inviting them into the issue and looking for there support.I also read she is asst. secretary in the Routt county Republican party, funny enough i was just guessing about her being a teabagger in my earlier post but this is what gets us going like the guy in the audience at your gathering who sits in the bar all afternoon and drives home but is in opposition to mmj we dont get it how does this affect him, if you are for legalization why dont you just come out in favor of that and state your reasons? My point being what are these dangerous negative impacts on our community i didnt read anything about them except for the law enforcement input which was weak i would like to see some of the statistics like i said earlier! I think after a vote it will be a moot point but like my grandmother use to say about the democrats "you people really chap my ass"!

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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Now, my e-mail to Kelly

So, let's see. You want to lead the fight to ban marijuana dispensaries but you aren't interested in marijuana? Huh? I was the Public Defender in Steamboat from 1975 to 2004 and during that time I NEVER represented anyone in the four counties of Northwest Colorado who committed a violent crime or a burglary while under the influence of marijuana. While on the other hand, at LEAST one-half of my clients were under the influence of alcohol during the crimes that they committed. What is your problem with marijuana? Alcohol has Hugh social and medical costs in our society. Why not urge the council to put on the ballot a question to ban liquor sales? Do you really think that if marijuana dispensaries are banned that Steamboat will be rid of marijuana? If so, you need to get a life. Marijuana is the largest cash crop in the USA. The ONLY reason that the Feds keep marijuana illegal is due to the gutless congress. I'll be willing to wager that at least of them have smoked marijuana (and inhaled) in their lifetime. They are no different than one-half of the USA population. Lisa, oh, by the way, you live in the county and Kelly does not even live here?? What's with that??

William S. Schurman

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

Dr. GG -- Let me take your questions in a different order: My motives are really very simple: I am concerned about negative and unintended consequences of the MMJ industry as it is currently being handled/managed in Routt County. I have gone on record that I agree that there are certain patients who may benefit from the drug. They are not common, but there are legitimate, medical indications for the drug. I've gone on record that I think ultimately, we would benefit from legalization -- Not because I think it's a totally harmless drug as some of you do, or because I think the world would be a better place if we all smoked pot, but because I am realist; I don't think the drug is going away, and I think we'd be better off regulating it and controlling it, and ending the illegal drug trade related to it. Furthermore, I have a fundamental problem with the fact that people are abusing the "medical" loophole to get the drug, and in so doing, are making what I call a mockery of medicine. I don't think that you, or most people weighing in here, really believe that there are 1150 people in Routt County with debilitating medical conditions that need marijuana. I think that you know that most are exploiting Amendment 20 and the quasi-legal status that is gave the drug. Like you, I defend what I do and what its taken me to do it, including my medical degree and the years and training that it took to earn the privilege to write a prescription. I don't like the fact that there are doctors making the rounds, and charging to write "recommendations" when they don't have bona fide doctor-patient relationships, and when they know that the "conditions" for which they are writing the recommendations are a farce. Legalize the drug and then buy it over the counter -- Don't make a mockery of my profession.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the way the MMJ industry is being handled here is professional, nor do I think it reflects well on us as a community. Granted, there is a big difference between the advertising tactics of the various MMJ dispensaries, and hopefully that is lost on no one. It's a shame that Aloha's has taken such a crass, in-your-face approach, because they have single-handedly proven to many of our citizens that there is no real "medical" in "medical marijuana".

Last night, there were several local educators in the audience -- grade school through college -- and every one of them felt that the overwhelming presence of marijuana in the community and the "condoning" of it under the guise of medical necessity was having a negative impact in their classrooms. Several of our top law enforcement officers spoke and related huge increases in impaired driving due to MMJ. Multiple business owners spoke about concerns that they had on our image as a community. Several raised concerns about resolving the existing conflict between state and federal law.

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

So, DrGG, from my perspective those are the areas of concern. Nothing nefarious going on here -- No big pharma connection, no political pay-offs, no Walgreens Shareholders to impress, no Tea Party soap box -- Just someone who thinks that we need to clean it up and get our collective acts together. As I said last night, if nothing else, I think we should extend the moratorium on additional dispensaries until we can address some of these concerns. I don't know if this is what the residents of Colorado had in mind when they passed Amendment 20, but I supect not. This recent explosion has been a result of the 2009 Ogden Memo released by the Obama administration, and it appears to me that they are already recanting, based on the recent slew of letters from the Attorney General and States Attorneys to the Governor. I think the sanest immediate course of action is to stop until we have some questions -- legal and otherwise answered. I am facinated by the tenor of the comments to date, however. I have managed to respond calming and respectfully to questions that have been asked of me, while being barraged with insults, inane comments, and vicious and unfounded personal attacks. Frankly, I find it tiresome and unacceptable, and it certainly reflects poorly on those who find it as their only recourse.

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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Kelly' response to my e-mail:

Mr. Schurman –

I am not sure where you are getting your information with regard to our initiative, but you are incorrect. We are definitely Interested in marijuana”. Specifically, we are interested in seeing it be treated in a way that does not have negative impact on our community. Currently, the drug is illegal. Amendment 20 seems to have resulted not only in an explosive growth in the industry, but in a host of other unintended consequences. The “medical” aspect is being exploited as a loophole and is only serving to provide quasi-legal protection for people to obtain, for recreational use, what would otherwise be illegal. There is little or no oversight from a medical perspective, and no push from the purveyors of the MMJ establishments to drive compliance. It’s a joke, you know it, I know it, and now the Feds know it.

Whether not marijuana should be legalized and decriminalized is a debate worth having in its own right -- But that’s not the discussion that Lisa and I are addressing. What we are addressing is that given the current state of the law, the lack of regulation, control and oversight, and what certainly appears to be tremendous abuse and misuse of the intention of the Amendment -- combined with the negative impact that the industry is having on our image as a community -- the only responsible thing to do is ban further expansion of dispensaries until the multitude of issues can be fully addressed. I am well aware of the huge social and medical toll that alcohol takes. Fortunately, alcohol is both legal and heavily regulated, in terms not only of manufacturing, but in advertising, labeling, selling, etc.

With regard to where Lisa and I live – Not sure why that’s a concern of yours, but rest assured, we both live, pay taxes, vote and hang our hats right here in Steamboat.

Kelly

"Never believe that a few caring people cannot change the world, for indeed, that's all

that ever truly have."

                                                                                              Margaret Mead
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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Kelly,

What is your source that "94 % of the state's medical marijuana patients cite severe pain to a doctor they've never met to get a recommendation for treatment". And, marijuana can be used to treat severe pain, or don't you agree?

Also the newspaper article says the Police Chief J.D. Hays and the Commander (the sheriff) claim that DUID arrests are on the rise in the last two years. They fail to cite any statistics as to the type of drug. Coke? Meth? Marijuana? Frankly, marijuana driving offenses are damned near impossible to prove. The DA knows it and hands out deferrals to avoid trial. And, what % of the arrests are for DUID (marijuana) as compared to alcohol??

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Great quote "Dr."

You go right on ahead and change that world girl.
Must be a pretty nice view from atop that shiny white ivory tower, huh?

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

"I've gone on record that I think ultimately, we would benefit from legalization -- Not because I think it's a totally harmless drug as some of you do, or because I think the world would be a better place if we all smoked pot, but because I am realist; I don't think the drug is going away, and I think we'd be better off regulating it and controlling it, and ending the illegal drug trade related to it."

You're what I like to call a dillusionalist.

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Kelly Victory 3 years, 6 months ago

The statistics regarding complaints/conditions came from the Colorado Department of Poblic Health and Environment - Medical Marijauna Registry website. And I was misquoted with regard to the physician recommendation; What I said was that there was not a bona fide doctor-patient relationship and that they received recommendations from physicians that had not met previously (as in, they went, met the physician, and got the recommendation that day -- no previous relationship).

Can MMJ be used to treat severe pain? Yes. Is it the best and/or most effective treatment? Not in my extensive medical experience. The patients who have the best results are those with severe cachexia from AIDS or end-stage cancers, and those with severe nausea from chemo that is unresponsive to other classes of anti-emetics.

Chief Hays and Sheriff Wiggins both quoted statistics on DUIDs and the training that officers receive to make that determination. I don't know the breakdown of DUI vs. DUID arrests, but If you have further questions on that issue, I would direct them to the officers.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Dr Victory; "At $140 a pop, the physicians responsible for writing the 124,000 recommendations in the state of Colorado are making almost $19Million in fees. Legalization could go a long way to cleaning all of this up."

You are obviously an intelligent person, but you are arguing such a narrow point that I'd be surprised if anyone else cares about the incredibly narrow distinction you are making.

First, $19 million in fees is nothing to the healthcare system. Hardly a big problem requiring major actions to clean up.

Second, if you believe in the free market system and believe writing mmj recommendations is so lucrative then why isn't the $140 fee rapidly decreasing?

Third, where is the harm to the medical profession? Where is the AMA or Colorado Medical Association pleading with the Colorado legislature to be removed from the process? Instead I find that going back to 1998 that the AMA asserted the sanctity of the doctor patient relationship to discuss the use of mmj.

Fourth, I think the general public is comfortable with the idea of going to a doctor to get a mmj recommendation. Maybe the doctor's visit is not a fully body scan pinpointing the medical issues with a scientifically proven justification that mmj will help the patient, but the doctor is not being paid enough to not care if a person is truly at risk of serious harm. So the doctor is at least a minimal check in the system to help prevent harm to people.

Fifth, if you acknowledge that mmj is not so harmful that it could be legalized then why are the number of locals with mmj recommendations relevant? If it could be legalized then there is no meaningful distinction between there being 1,000 or 10,000 residents able to get their mj legally.

Sixth, there is nothing in your argument suggesting that the appropriate solution is to ban local dispensaries. The dispensaries are not being operated by medical doctors and there are regulations preventing there being an onsite doctor writing mmj recommendations to anyone that comes into the dispensary.

It would seem more logical and straightforward given your concerns for you to take your concerns about the medical profession's involvement with mmj to the Colorado Legislature and propose a nonmedical state license or certification for a MJ Consultant. Thus, solving the issues you (but not the AMA) have with the medical profession and MMJ.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Wait just a gosh darn minute. Dr. Kelly Victory doesn't live in Steamboat? IS THIS TRUE?

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

She owns a ranch by the purposed "SweetWater" ranch. Guess what? She was also opposed to that. So i guess the FACT IS that you Miss Victory CANNOT vote on any Steamboat election. That is of course you alter your voter registration and LIE about it.

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 6 months ago

I LOVE facts! These are a few of my recent favorites.

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/28/136726993/buzz-kill-federal-warnings-hit-medical-pot-boom

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2011/03/16/Two-West-Hollywood-Medical-Marijuana-Dispensaries-Raided-Federal-Agents

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2011/May/20/federal_agents_raid_helena_medial_pot_caregiver.html

http://cdc.coop/spokane_raid

Pfft, what an idiot I must be. It’s not like Colorado or our communities dealing with the mess this has become has anything at all to consider beyond the blah blah deflecting rhetoric of pro/con.

Maybe it's just real hard to find evidence of the illegal pot business in Colorado. I mean really, it's not like we have the "nanner, nanner come get us banner" waving with pictures of people and their prize winning product, (boasting increased business), "menu's" a mile long with detailed pics of their product, location and grow facilities, dispensary referrals to some random, nameless doctor that will hook you up for $140, massive grow factories in "Pot Gulch", municipalities considering how to spend revenue from illegal dispensaries or published ads with freebies and punch cards.

How about this one where AMEX is now declining MMJ transactions, (interesting how they weighed how much money they might be losing with the legal ramifications and ultimately chose to comply with Federal law:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/05/medical_marijuana_american_express.php

I'm not an attorney, just the (what are all the names Dr. Victory and I have been called? I suppose you can just fill in the blank here), asking the dumb questions. So my dumb question is: does this have something to do with that money laundering/racketeering thing? Maybe businesses in this community, property owners, banking institutions, governing bodies accountable to the public, all considering how and if they will accept money in any form from these businesses would want to research for themselves how this might impact them. I'm not saying they can't or shouldn't, I am simply putting the question out there for them to decide.

All of you anonymous and dispensary guys obviously have all the answers, so answer all of that in the best interest of our community for us. In fact, I've got a long list of questions that you folks should answer for this community and certainly our governing bodies should be prepared to answer for. Dr. Victory and I last night freely admitted we don't have all those answers.

We will look to our governing bodies to protect and insure that the right thing is being done for this community; we have brought all of these questions to the fore front of discussion for our community so that folks can make those decisions from their own perspective.

Wow, a rally with 1000 people?

Okie dokie smokie. I won't be showing up to disrupt that for sure.

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm done here folks. Carry on anonymous and dispensary owner posters! Blast and degrade me personally all you wish, I give. You all totally win the "keep 'em going in the comments with our rhetoric" endurance competion! By complete default. Sorry, I don't give plaques, so make yourself a pot lei with lollipops and baked ice cream, post it on the front page of tomorrows paper with all the details! "Pot Community Rallies Online to Call Little Mom With Big Questions...." eh, whatever you want to call me. Another trophy for your medicinal awards walls!

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beverly lemons 3 years, 6 months ago

Some one is getting pouty.

Name calling does nothing to promote your agenda , Lisa. I think you need to put something besides tea in your pot and leave substantive discourse to the reasonable majority in our valley. Our pro position on mmj is from experience, legitimate science and hard evidence, not made up to get political attention or grandstand for drug company shareholders.

Go do something worthwhile with your time. Perhaps you wont so utterly embarrass yourself and your right wing extremist friends with your next foray into the public arena.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

If the feds wanted to bust dispensaries and grow operations then surely they are capable of downloading the list from the State of Colorado website.

What is notable in the recent busts that have happened so far is that the people were not adhering to State Law. The United States v, Bartkowicz case cited by US Attorney Walsh involved a man with prior felony drug convictions operating an unregistered large scale grow operation. The State of Colorado made no claims that he was adhering to state law which apparently they could do when applying for a 10th Amendment exception.

The events prior to the Odgen memo was Oakland and San Francisco threatening to withdraw local police assistance to federal investigations when the investigations included mmj activities legal under local laws. Berkeley even passed it.

There was also the Ed Rosenthal case who grew 100 lbs for the Oakland Cannabis Club whom was convicted by a jury that was not told that it was for that purpose. Members of the jury were subsequently outraged to learn of that and joined him protesting the case. The Federal judge sentenced him to 1 day in jail.

So while the Feds could come here today and bust all the local dispensaries, they have the political sense to realize the possible consequences of their actions. It would certainly risk a number of cities instructing their police departments to refuse to cooperate with federal law enforcement on mmj cases. And they could lose the cases in court to juries not wanting to convict people following state law.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, And all of you facts involve cases in which local laws were not being followed. And in Spokane where there is no local framework for legally selling to mmj patients they sent out cease and desist orders prior to the raids. And in none of those raids did they make any effort to seize funds from local governments such as the taxes paid by dispensaries.

So while your efforts may limit the legal exposure of local dispensary owners, it would appear they are willing to take those risks and there is no reason to shut them down.

Thus, the facts as you present them still suggest no reasons for either the city or county to ban mmj dispensaries or their associated grow operations.

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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Hello, it's me again,

Check out mailbot@news.yahoo.com or just open yahoo if you use it. Interesting shift on the failed war on drugs and on public opinion on marijuana. Very interesting reading.

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bill schurman 3 years, 6 months ago

Yo, Muck, Lisa doesn't live in the city limits either.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa-

Still you have RANTED about what? WHERE IS THE LOCAL PROOF? Let me help with this tuff question we pose to you.

WE DONT HIT OURSELVES IN THE HEAD WITH A HAMMER BECAUSE IT WILL HURT. That is eveidence. Well because we KNOW its going to hurt.

Now its your turn- We want our local despensarys closed because..........(here is where you present FACT OF LOCAL ISSUIES)

or maybe this will help- The local POT growers need to be shut down because..........(you say truthful things)

or this can be said- Police arrested local MMJ owners because they.............(prove your case here Lisa)

DONT ASSUME Kevin and JJ are Criminals. ASS/U/ming things make you look really UNPROFESSIONAL and your 49 supporters will eventually give up on you.

Not only that but you have almost used SLANDER at this point and well to be HONEST (this means TRUTH) i bet a VERY WELL PAID LAWYER will protect them.

YOUR thread above has NOT produced any real LOCAL, HONEST, TRUTHFUL, BERING, and REALITY to convince anyone WHY the LOCAL MMJ D's should be closed. You bring evidence but it has ZERO bering on WHY we should close local D's.

However i can give you ONE fact about why MCdonalds should be closed. Here let me show you-

Mcdonalds should be closed because OBESITY (the fact part) is up 80% in the USA.

Show me LOCAL FACT PLEASE. NOT WHAT HAPPEND IN SPOKAN WA.

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

WELL WELL WELL! Both of you cannot vote on this election. To be HONEST i to don't live in Steamboat.

How can a NON-RESIDENT ask Steamboat City Council for anything?

People of Steamboat,

What we have here is a failure to communicate. We have two women trying to IMPOSE their ideas and beliefs on YOU. These to women who speak to you and tell you that " the world is ending" if you don't heed thy word. OUR COMMUNITY IS IN DANGER. Bottom line is neither can vote on the issue they want you to belive in. I have asked MANY TIMES to present FACT. WE GOT NOTHING (unless you live in SPOKAN) NOT ONE IOTA OF TRUTHFUL PROOF. One could easily see that both of them have very little to bring to the THEIR cause.
I am done here folks. We got enough here to allow SENSIBLE folks to make a rational decision. You may not smoke pot but i belive in the people of our county and a NO BS APPROACH. i have lived here in Routt for many years. NEVER ONCE have i seen such a FAILURE of any group to present facts.

GALS GOOD LUCK. I THINK WE CAN FEEL SAFE IF YOU ARE THE OPPOSITION.

THE LIES STOP NOW!

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Hi Bill!! Good to hear from you!! Folks, Bill S is the best lawyer in town, bar none. He got me out of a scrape once, when I was the accused, but I was RIGHT. When I asked him once why he wasn't in private practice -- his skills would be lucrative -- was it because criminals don't have any money? -- he replied No, I just got tired of running a business; I want to practice LAW. And for his duration as PD, he was the best attorney money could NOT buy. His opinions are well-considered, rational, and worth consideration. I'm glad to hear he has joined the fray, on the side of Good.

We keep waiting to hear specific allegations beyond "unintended consequences," and to date have only heard vague references to increased DUID's, which we do NOT see reflected in the daily Record or weekly Jail Report. Despite the increased training to be on the lookout for just such activity. Community character, effects on youth -- these arguments are strangely absent, opposition focused on perceived abuses, and possible (but unlikely) Federal intervention, and why these ladies would care about that -- who cares? Unless it's financially or ego-driven, and one must seriously consider both of these, in the face of the verbose yet empty responses we get.

I was especially entertained by Kelly's "Fortunately alcohol is both legal and heavily regulated" comment, because I'm wondering, is that fortunate? That the most debilitating substance ever devised by Man is also the most legal and heavily abused, to NOBODY's benefit, and the grief of many? That's fortunate? That continues unabated, and nobody cares; let's squabble about the dispensaries!!

Thanks again, Bill, and I look forward to seeing you at our meeting, somewhere in the throng!!

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pitpoodle 3 years, 6 months ago

Mr. or Ms. Muck, unfortunately, this string of blogs do not magically turn into votes cast. If you believe in this cause and want to succeed, you must do more than write a few convincing words. Really, it doesn't matter if you live in the city or not to make a difference as to who and how many voters cast a ballot for your position. Stop talking and start doing.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa... We, as the mmj community are regularly degraded in actual articles in this papers and others, let alone the comment sections... Put on your battle armor. You asked for this.

Thank you, Dr. Victory for your reply. But, as mmj22 stated clearly, the congruency of all your stances makes little sense. If you think that if and when marijuana IS legalized that any better of a regulatory system will be in place than what we have now, you are mistaken (is alcohol really very hard for kids to get ahold of?....come on...NO) If and when it IS legalized for whatever kind of use, you better believe big business will have it all over magazines, billboards, TV....you name it. When you say MMJ is too "unregulated" in Colorado, we also become confused, because we all know even the non-partakers that we are under the strictest regulations in the nation, let alone the world.

It also seems you both are dwelling on the information on my website offering the services of a Dr. for MMJ referrals. Do you know anyone can hop in their car and drive to Denver and obtain a recommendation from a clinic that serves them up all day, every day for $60 each?? The Doctor offered by Natural Choice is very reputable and DOES offer a bona-fide patient doctor relationship. The patients can see her or call her anytime after the recommendation and she will handle all their needs regarding the MMJ recommendation. She has her own practice (not an MMJ referral clinic) on the Front Range and is very reputable, just as you are. The Denver MMJ Doctor clinics are required to offer the relationship too....this bona-fide patient/doctor relationship is also in the hands of the patient to establish. Many times, the patient has already been using cannabis to treat their aliments and know the cannabis works. The Dr. understands that the cannabis is totally safe for them to use at their own discretion.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

Now, lastly, I will agree with that cannabis is wonderful medicine for those suffering from HIV and AIDS, wasting disease from Chemo, etc...these extreme conditions require a level of "quality of life care" also. The thing you seem to be ignoring is that cannabis is also VERY effective for many other APPROVED, QUALIFYING CONDITIONS. It is true that the stats show that "EXTREME PAIN" is listed as the patients most common complaint. This "pain" comes in all forms. Do you think Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen are safer than Cannabis? Some choose the Natural Choice for their headaches and stomach issues. It is simply an alternative option for a long list of qualifying conditions. Whether you as a doctor would agree on the patients CHOICE to choose cannabis as their medicine is your own prerogative. The people living in Colorado have been giving the option, and whether 1,100 people in our county "need" the card or not in "your opinion" makes no difference. These patients did not come to your for a card, only in that situation, should you feel justified in pushing your opinions and viewpoints on anyone. Your field of work is not being made a mockery of. In many people's eyes, the option of having cannabis as their medicine makes the medical industry of Colorado MORE RESPECTABLE. At least our State is facing up to the fact that it IS medicine and allowing people safer and more regulated access than any other State. In my opinion, that's commendable.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

And now another possibility occurs: We've got one lady, telling us it's fortunate alcohol is legal, and the other one, saying "Okie dokie smokie" shortly after midnight. I wonder if she usually talks like a 4th grader, or only when tipsy. Notice they have no known issues with alcohol...

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HowardRoark 3 years, 6 months ago

Anyone that tells you that marijuanna is not a medicine is either ignorant or lying. I am very glad to see that rational people have frightened away the two lying bastians of big pharma. It is very disconcerning to me to see that people like Lisa Watts and Dr. Victory even exist, and it is perplexing as to how they have come to be the monsters they are. I am pretty sure that the little meeting they held at the library backfired on their cause, and the way in which they handled the comments here is just childish. At no point did they represent a solid argument in favor of their insane agenda. If I see either of you two on the street I am calling you out as a liar and a schill, and it is my constitutional right to do so. I will not raise my voice, but my voice will be heard by you two, and I would encourage everyone else to do the same.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

I suggest that if we are to vote on banning mmj that we also give local voters the full range of options regarding mmj and thus also have a vote whether to protect local mmj by instructing local law enforcement to not cooperate with federal investigation or prosecution of Colorado citizens following Colorado law. Something like:

BE IT RESOLVED, that the City of Steamboat Springs does not support cooperation with the Drug Enforcement Administration in its attacks on this State’s medical marijuana laws, and further calls upon the Steamboat Springs Police Department, the District Attorney for the County of Routt, the Routt County Sheriff’s Department, and the Attorney General for the State of Colorado to uphold the laws of the State, and specifically not to assist in the harassment, arrest or prosecution of physicians, medical cannabis dispensaries, individual patients, or their primary caregivers whether in Steamboat Springs or any other part of the state who are attempting to comply with Colorado Amendment 20 and Colorado Revised Statutes.

It would seem that if we can get a handful of people, potentially as many as 50 people, together to hold a meeting on this topic then the City Council would be willing to put it to a vote.

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa Watts is a county resident and lives a few miles west of the city limits, a easy bike ride to Alohas so she can not vote in the special elections to be held within Steamboat Springs City or Oak Creek Town Limits or as she like to call it Pot Gulch.

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sashas 3 years, 6 months ago

This entire marijuana debate is extremely frustrating. It all stems from the fact that marijuana was made illegal. And why was it made illegal? Certainly not because of its harms. One reason could be because the prohibition of alcohol didn’t work, and the gov. hired so many officers to deal with those offenders. What were they going to do with all the jobs created to enforce the prohibition of alcohol? Well, instead of firing them and freeing up monies, they used these people to enforce the newly created prohibition of marijuana to make money on the constant arrests. It’s not because they cared about the American people and marijuana’s ill effects on them. Do you really think the gov. gives a crap about us? It’s all about control and who’s making the buck. Anyone looking at the history of how marijuana became illegal can see all the scare tactics and propaganda that shows it will make you insane and kill people, which of course is completely false. Enough about that.

What I’m trying to say is that it’s an unjust ridiculous law. People don’t follow unjust ridiculous laws, which again brings up the point, even if dispensaries weren’t here, I’d still smoke pot (I don’t have a card) and I smoke pot. So this brings up the point, you ladies want to see marijuana legalized, but the dispensaries shut down? So would I. But I first want to see the legalization, and then the dispensaries can sell legally to anyone over 18 or 21. There is NO way I would vote to shut down dispensaries and wait for the legalization because when is that going to happen? This prohibition thing has been going on for too long, and how much longer will it take for the legalization?

In my opinion, the dispensaries are a step forward to the legalization. Sometimes we need to work around the law when the laws are unjust. And I’m very confused that people cannot see that this law is unjust and ridiculous. I’m in my 30s, and I remember talking to my Mom years ago about this topic and asking her why she doesn’t like marijuana. Her answer was “because it’s illegal.” How ridiculous of an answer is that, and that’s pretty much all you anti people have to say. Less gov. and less control is best.

And if you have to be swayed of its medicinal value because you cannot see that the law is insane, one example is to look into Rick Simpson, “Run from the Cure.” I would use marijuana oil before radiation for cancer anyday. There are so many other examples and pros for the use of cannabis and not just for medical purposes.

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sashas 3 years, 6 months ago

Also, there’s a reason I live here, and it’s because of the like minded people who have revealed themselves on this discussion board. It took me ten years to find such a wonderful place to live, and if they were all Dr. Victory’s or Lisa Watts’, I would not live here. That’s why I don’t live on the East Coast. Go back there, Dr. Victory. You’ve made your opinions clear, and you do belong on the East Coast, not here. It’s all the other people on this discussion board that make Steamboat so great. It wouldn’t be this way it is without you all. Keep up the good work!

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Scott -- I'm not an attorney; ask Bill, but your petition I would sign. I might suggest some minor changes, such as adding "and the County of Routt" and changing "harassment" to "pursuit" or another less-judgemental term. Sounds good to me!!

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Does pot oil really help skin cancer? My mom is going through radiation, as we squabble, and if I could show mmj as a reasonable alternative, that'd be so cool!! Is it a topical application?

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sashas 3 years, 6 months ago

Highwaystar,

YES. Go to youtube and check out Rick Simpson's "Run From the Cure." I've been following him for a few years now. My husband actually made some oil, which wasn't as pure as Rick Simpson's, but he put it on a wart and it still managed to go away in a couple days. This is the testimony you will also find from people with skin cancer, who put the oil on and saw results almost immediately. Big pharma doesn't want you to know this. Good luck, and I encourage your mother to try this.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Rhys, I just took a section from one of the California cities that passed a non cooperation resolution back when DEA was busting their dispensaries.

My view of the historical situation is that after many smaller cities and the large cities of San Francisco and Oakland passed those sort of non cooperation resolutions then the US Attorney's office wanted to stop losing and instead regain local cooperation. Thus, the Odgen memo which went about as far as it could without violating existing federal law to suggest that they would not prosecute those following state and local laws.

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sashas 3 years, 6 months ago

JJ, Are you familiar with Rick Simpson and the oil he makes? If so, what do you recommend that is comparable in which Rhys' Mom should use on her skin cancer? Thanks! Sasha

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

sashas, DrGG -- Thank you so much!! I sent your sentiments and links to Mom, while also BEGGING her to get over her outdated biases, which in this case could end up at least shortening her life. These cures will not kill her, which is what the AMA's radiation is doing, just hoping the cancer dies faster. Why even CONSIDER that, when there is a natural and effective alternative?

Here we are seeing how dispensaries can actually help people, who have no viable alternative. I find it unconscionable that anybody would want to curtail that.

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

sashas I can't agree with you more, why would someone like Dr V move from her like minded people in the Northeast and move to a part of the country that has always had a reputation of freedom and you live your life and I'll live mine. Most of the states that have passed MMJ laws are in the west. From very liberal states like Oregon and Washigton to the more Conservative one's like Montana, Arizona and Alaska speaking of Alaska it is now legal for anyone over 21 to have up to 1 oz as long as you don't smoke in public. In the very Red state of Idaho a handful of cities and towns have passed laws similar to one's passed in Breck and Denver re: marijuana. GOP Rep Tom Trail (Moscow) will introduce leglistation to legalize MMJ in Idaho sometime this year. The more states and towns that pass such laws the harder it will be for the FEDS to head west and state kicking down doors

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Thanks again sashas; I sent that link on too. Fascinating piece. I usually don't click on the links in here (if they can't at least summarize it first, why waste my time; I'm FAR too busy for that (snicker snicker)) but your lead-in was enticing, especially regarding my mom.

Unfortunately they have her on a regimen, once daily from Parachute to the Junction, for her treatment, for another couple weeks at least. Already she gets so tired she can't drive herself, or stay awake when she gets home. It's KILLING her. This 83-year-old lady volunteers her time as a Sheriff's Auxiliary in Garfield County, does all kinds of stuff for them, mainly school crossings and event staff, parking and such. But she'd still put out a hot spot on the hillside at a fire, if that was the thing to do. So for her to be knocked out by the AMA -- that must be heavy stuff. I can't help but feel that dollars also play a major role here.

And if the AMA STILL doesn't work, THEN I hope she'll listen!!

Thank you again, sashas, and everybody make sure you're registered to vote!!

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pitpoodle 3 years, 6 months ago

Highway's right. Become a voter, if you are not.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Some day I will register my boat at the Courthouse -- but on this eve I may hold Court at the Boathouse. It's a legal alcohol dispensary. Great happy hour, fun repartee... maybe I'll bump into one of you!! Wouldn't that be fun, and leave your weapons at the door...

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

Rick Simpson's "Hemp Oil" is also another name for hash oil. I don't time to look it up, but I explained in detail his method on a different article here in a different thread. It is a cannabis concentrate. All types of cannabis concentrates have a similar cancer-fighting element... especially if made with particular strains that hold the valued properties. There are actually cleaner and more effective ways to make concentrates than the Rick Simpson recipe.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, Kelly-

So it's regulation you're after? How about Gov. Hickenlooper today? What did that do for you two? Just in case you haven't been brought up to speed on it yet, here's the link that can give you the run down on the skinny. http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Colo-governor-signs-changes-to-sweeping-pot-rules-1407523.php

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

Well, well, apparently Governor Hickenlooper has decided that state regulations of mmj can proceed despite the ominous warning letter from US Attorney Walsh.

A more detailed article is http://www.boulderweekly.com/article-5716-this-is-the-new-world-order-of-cannabis_-dont-let.html

And this is why they think State of Colorado can proceed despite the warning letter:

Boulder attorney Jeff Gard, who specializes in medical marijuana law, says state officials’ desire to create a “vertically integrated” system that tracks pot medicine “from seed to sale” stems in part from a landmark 2005 California case, Gonzalez vs. Raich. In that case, which went all the way to the Supreme Court, the feds were successful in prosecuting a medical marijuana patient even though California law permitted medical marijuana. (Marijuana is still a schedule I controlled substance under federal law.) One of the main arguments used by the court to defend the feds’ authority was that the homegrown pot was entwined in the interstate marijuana market, which in turn opened the door for the government to invoke the Commerce Clause as justification for interjecting itself into what would otherwise be a state’s purview.

Hence, Gard says, if Colorado can demonstrate a “closed loop,” in which none of its marijuana crosses state borders, it strengthens the case against federal intervention.


I note that if this closed loop leads to a favorable legal decision by taking Colorado MMJ out of the US Constitution's Commerce Clause then Colorado could proceed to full legalization without concern of federal jurisdiction.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

All these Doctors seem so busy; why aren't any PRACTICING Doctors complaining? Maybe they could use the help?

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bandmama 3 years, 6 months ago

ok... I haven't felt as though my comments were needed, as so many have been so well spoken. BUT, have to jump in here, Highway, so feel for you! I would be more than happy to chat with your mom! As an active employee of a a MAJOR hosp in the midwest with 12 yrs of...., knowing...and having my own issues with health (not cancer, but a lupus-ey-type chronic condition) I HAVE to say that if it weren't for the BOARD certified doc ,one of the best, Oncologists in the nation, who suggested it to me.. I OWE him a thanks, but cant, Because of current laws! My daily life would SUCK if it weren't for this man. I can NEVER expess enough thanks to that DOCTOR! While he couldn't, at that time, and with the current laws, officially tell me to try, he did. And I owe him the respect, and thanks to let others know that this "plant" has made" such a positive impact on my life and how I deal day to day. I really COULD take the LEGAL prescrips for pain, for "emotional" crap and "Pain" that many doctors dont take seriously but are more thanwillingto.... write a ascript. ( "the SED #'s are norm", "the white count is high, cant tell you why,and they have been.... since 1998.... but the numbers go down with a vengence!....If ya toke....", and the biopsy "showed this", but that we cant tell you why you hurt..." when you document use...for the joint pain".).. I could toke a toke or two, eat a "candy bar" or NOT feel like a criminal for doing so. AND it is well published the side effects of my "CHOICE" of LEGAL meds. This is an issue that deals with the way I live. I COULD take the scrips to deal with what I do, but dang gum-it!!!! They kill my organs. AND while I can, within limits of the law DRIVE while under the influence of these scripts, I wont!!!! Nor do I drive while using my CHOICE of medication.It has to do with being responsible. Every person has the responsibility to know when to drive or make an impact on another's life. Having my scrip on a"non medical marijuana supporting dr's" pre made pad" does NOT release me from the responsibility of my actions. Who the HELL is anyone to tell me that I have to accept a medical,leagl, course of care that will, with documentation HURT me, but is within the current terms and accepted terms of law, ....KILL me? I have the upmost respect for whom I work for. And I also know that if I screw things up for said employer, I would without a doubt lose my job. While TRYING to use scrips legally, my mind was NOT at it's best and I deserved to be taken into hand. How can ANYNE tell me how to manage my condition? I am more than willling to go to jail for the freedom of being able to make a living and work...or by some folks standards, claim benefits. Y'all want to pay me to sit at home and DO nothing? For a ck, from the government? I want to work, and NOT be a lazy butt head. But if this is what the kind "dr's" in question would prefer...DONT ever let me hear them claim about welfare re-cips....I would MORE than qualify.

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sashas 3 years, 6 months ago

Dr. Victory,

I am curious if you worked with Dr.Grinspoon at Harvard. It seems as you two are at totally different ends of the spectrum regarding this issue. I would have thought that two opinionated people on this topic would've crossed paths at some point. You both were or are still at the medical school, but different departments, I believe. Anyway, this is what I pulled about Dr. Grinspoon:

"Dr. Lester Grinspoon may very well be the most influential marijuana activist of all time. If there were an award for achievement in changing the way people think about smoking marijuana Dr. Grinspoon would win hands down. During his more than 4 decades of honest intellectual contributions and recommendation for re-thinking the use of cannabis and the laws related to marijuana Dr. Grinspoon founded the Harvard Mental Health Letter, and was its editor for fifteen years, which among other qualifications, put him in a better position than any contemporary American physician to tell the truth about drugs.

Dr. Grinspoon is Associate Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and the author or co-author of over 160 journal articles, including his 1995 commentary in the Journal of the American Medical Association entitled "Marihuana as Medicine: A Plea for Reconsideration." His first book, Marihuana Reconsidered, originally published in 1971 by Harvard University Press, was recently republished as a classic. His latest book, Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine, co-authored with James B. Bakalar, was published by Yale University Press in 1993 (revised and expanded edition, 1997) and has now been translated into ten languages. Dr. Grinspoon was also a reviewer of the 1999 Institute of Medicine report, "Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base."

Dr. Grinspoon appeared in the Canadian documentary The Union: The Business of Behind Getting High ~ Also, he has two very good websites that I recommend, plus that you visit and join his Facebook Fan Page (Reefer, 2010)."

If you haven't, Dr. Victory, you should have a discussion with Dr. Grinspoon. It might open your eyes to understanding how we supporters feel.

Reference Reefer. (2010, February 10). Dr. Lester Grinspoon. Retrieved June 3, 2011 from http://www.reefersmoke.com/2010/02/dr-lester-grinspoon.html

Sasha

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Lisa, Kelly -- How long have you ladies resided in our fair valley? Reason I ask is, I don't recall hearing much out of either of you, ever, before your anti-dispensary group came along. I mean, for a home-grown movement, it would appear that what you call home changes frequently. Did you show up here to save us from ourselves? Or is some pharmaceutical company paying you to advance your cause, somebody like Walgreen's maybe, because they perceive a very real threat from medical marijuana? I still wonder who's footing the tab for your movement. If you don't do doctor stuff, what do you do, Doctor? Your previous description was rather vague, but I'll bet you command a healthy fee, for whatever it is you do.

The pharmaceutical companies SHOULD be concerned. As soon as it becomes widely known that there is a miracle plant which will cure many ills, for cheap or for free, things will slow WAY DOWN at the doctor's office, and the pharmacy. This is big-money stuff, and they're squirming!! Are you ladies on their team?

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muck 3 years, 6 months ago

So rumors abound that Mr. Wiggins sent some folks into OC over the weekend to do a little undercover operation to purchase some marijuana. Obviously we have no proof of this but there was two separate incidence that seem a little out of place. It appears that they left empty handed. IF YOU USE MMJ, DON'T GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT. THEY CANNOT HANDLE RESPONSIBLE MMJ USERS. OBEY STATE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T BE A STUIPD IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T DRIVE HIGH, OR SELL TO ANYONE!!! NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER HAVE NEAR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T GIVE THEM A REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Well there you have it. A response from the community. So what have you to say. Ladies -- this forum is all about YOU, and what you have wrought. Several questions have been posed, yet awaiting responses. Not first and foremost are, how long y'all said you hung your hats around Routt County, and who did you say pays the bills? What do you do when you're not doing this? I'll leave the legal and medical arguments to the experts; my concerns are more local. Give it up. girls -- whose pocket are you in?

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

It is wrong how this discussion is not criticizing personal details of Dr Victory and Lisa Watts. Doesn't matter where they live, how long they've lived here or anything else.

What matters is the validity of their ideas. The ideas, not the people promoting the ideas, is what matters.

What should matter is the apparent lack of logic in their ideas. That it being illegal under Federal law should be irrelevant because a major objective of the newly signed HB 1043 is to so tightly regulates the entire process so that the Commerce Clause would not apply. Commerce Clause may have not applied earlier to Colorado dispensaries since Colorado was the only state to have a legal framework for the process from seed to patient. But HB 1043 tightly regulates that process so it can reasonably be shown that there is no crossover between illegal interstate drug trafficking and Colorado MMJ. And while operating a mmj business is not without legal risks, it is specious to argue about there being risks for local governments.

And I am still trying to understand how Dr Victory's outrage that there are over 1,000 MMJ patients in Routt County compared about 60 which she thinks would be appropriate is connected to allowing MMJ dispensaries to operate. Even if you accept Dr Victory's argument then that suggests the medical profession needs to reform itself regarding doctor's writing of recommendations and prescriptions, not that MMJ dispensaries should locally be banned.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

oops, first line was supposed to be "It is wrong how this discussion is NOW criticizing personal details of Dr Victory and Lisa Watts."

Dang autospellchecker only checks spelling, not whether the word is what was intended since original word gives exact opposite meaning than what I intended.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Scott -- you are absolutely correct, we would all appreciate responses to these two named issues. If this were an emotionally-driven movement, I would expect more appeals to such issues as community image or effects on youth, arguments not presented here. Instead we are confronted with perceived abuses of the system, and potential federal conflicts, both relatively dry issues, and neither of which can I imagine possibly impacting either of these ladies in any way. So I am just wondering what motivates them, and why they are so concerned about an issue which has no relevance to their lives whatsoever, at least not on the surface. The only locals they seem concerned with are the ones bending the rules, and they really don't like them!!

It just smells funny to me; the quoted issues don't justify the emotion. S'all I'm sayin'.

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

Scott too -- my spell-checker ain't no smarter; we need a smart-checker. I (and I assume we) figured out what you meant. This durn Linux spell-checker is British, so it thinks honor and favor are bad things!! I have to proof-read closely, and still stuff slips by.

Still, these forums are one step ahead of my mouth -- at least I get a chance to edit here...

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Maybe the naysayers went back on vacations.

I always love how quiet the naysayers get when a whole bunch of truth gets dumped on 'em by our side. It's such a beautiful silence.

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nurmidst 3 years, 6 months ago

COMMUNITY IMAGE weve had a marketing phrase for years More Bars than Utah, with drunken idiots beating each other to death on our street corners, Known as a place to be arrested for drunk driving to the point that its even mentioned on the webehigh.com site Real Estate/Developers hiring hit men over crooked business deals and their biggest concern is a couple of MMJ shops! Yea get out the torches and the pitchforks!

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JJ Southard 3 years, 6 months ago

IF you have your eye on the Federal Gov's stance on MMJ... read this http://www.steelescase.org/

It's this first Federal marijuana case where the Feds are allowing a medical defense.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

JJ- Very interesting webit. What strikes me as paramount for what it means is that, if the government recognizes this case as one with medicinal acceptability, they will also be forced to address their stance that cannabis is a schedule 1 narcotic.

Ironically, this is closely coinciding with that one US Circuit Court lawsuit that I posted about on some of the other articles. Looks like one way, or another, the feds are being faced with a decision to re-consider their stance on cannabis.

As far as I can tell, we're on the march. How 'bout... "WE'RE HERE, & WE'RE HIGH."... as a battle-cry?

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

That "battle-cry" was mostly a joke. Of coarse, we couldn't obviously seriously proceed with that as our battle-cry.

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sashas 3 years, 6 months ago

I read in a letter to the editor in Sunday's paper that Dr. Victory's house was vandalized; that is the first I heard of that. If this is true, I just want to express how truly unfortunate this occurence is. Someone made a very poor decision, which is going to pose an ill outlook upon pro cannabis people. There are idiots on both sides of the debate; however, people who act on their anger by doing such things as vandalising are just complete losers going about the issue in the wrong way. Anyway, sorry to hear that happened to you, Dr.Victory. And everyone, don't forget about the discussion tonight with the City Council at 5pm.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 6 months ago

This vandalism incident never did make the police blotter and it certainly would have been newsworthy deserving of a newspaper article.

Considering the sole source of this incident is Bob's letter which also claims that bloggers someone had something to do with the vandalism despite the online forums not mentioning that she lived out of town until days after the presumed vandalism and also distorted comment regarding violent drug cartels as somehow being threats against Dr Victory and Lisa Watts, there should be serious skepticism of what really happened.

I do not condone vandalism. It is just that there is currently only one source of that claim and that source discredited himself on other facts in the same letter so we do not know what, if anything, happened.

To the extent that there was vandalism, that sort of action is about the only way that the measure to ban mmj dispensaries could pass. With the demographic profile of this area, as long as mmj is seen as largely harmless then it will not lose an election, but if there is a climate of intimidation then it'll lose since then there would be more of a unacceptable illegal environment from legal mmj than illegal mj. The vast majority of the people do not want to live under an intimidating mmj cartel. They are fine with it being some innocuous business pushing out illegal mj drug dealers, but will not accept a mmj drug cartel to be worse than the illegal mj drug cartels.

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

It is important to reiterate Ms. Hermacinski's point that tonight's city council meeting is not a forum for a pro/anti MMJ in-toto debate. Instead, the discussion is only about:

  1. Whether City Council should place the issue of a ban on the ballot in November

and

  1. Whether additional taxes should be levied upon the sale of MMJ

We at RMR are not calling in the troops tonight. I will be there to express my concerns about Council's cow-towing to a very minority group vis-a-vis their placement of a ban initiative. Our City's charter includes language that would allow for the opposition to include a ballot initiative to ban. It is my opinion that if there is such a strong opposition base, they would have no problem gathering the 800 or so signatures required for this. However, I just don't think they have the support. And, as such, City Council has no business doing it for them.

From my seat it seems that Council's obligations lie with the three MMC's they have twice licensed. Indeed, to enable a group organized by non-city residents that could barely rally .29% of in-towners at their inaugural pow wow while at the same time ignoring the thousand or so city residing card-holders, would be both unethical and irresponsible.

To address the tax issue- While I do support using current sales tax revenues from MMJ in youth diversion programs, I emphatically DO NOT support the levying of an addt'l 5% tax on the sale of MMJ. This state currently has a 0% tax rate on all other prescription meds. So long as we are discussing MEDICAL marijuana and not recreational marijuana, a "sin" tax is wildly inappropriate. In fact, it could easily be argued that if such a tax was so imposed, Council is artificially acting to limit patient access to a recognized medication and by proxy supporting the use of other non-taxed therapies (ie big pharma).

So, if anyone out there does care to show up tonight, please speak to these points alone.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Can we expect any announcements about the formation of our group yet?

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rhys jones 3 years, 6 months ago

I still like YIDS -- Yes I (support) DispensarieS!! We'll be the YIDS Kids.

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canyonwind 3 years, 6 months ago

http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=425022&article=8601428?feed=425022&article=8715092 This link show very drunk people kicking serious A$$ in Vancouver BC, It was a full moon last night but I know if all these people were smoking weed this may not have happen, plus look at all the very young people perhaps their Ritalin kicked in to over drive.

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Eric J. Bowman 3 years, 6 months ago

"DONT ASSUME Kevin and JJ are Criminals."

But they are -- mj remains on Schedule I, federally. So let's get our definitions correct. Granted, it should be Schedule II, but unless and until that changes, dispensaries are in the business of thumbing their nose at federal law. Engaging in behavior that's against the law is the definition of "criminal"; there's no grey area here.

"Maybe the naysayers went back on vacations."

Or maybe they don't feel the need to participate in discussions with those who insult and degrade everyone who disagrees with them...

"I always love how quiet the naysayers get when a whole bunch of truth gets dumped on 'em by our side. It's such a beautiful silence."

...or waste their time rebutting anecdotal stories about mj curing cancer, or how mj's miraculous healing properties are only suppressed due to conspiracy theories about Big Pharma.

Congratulations on shouting down everyone who disagrees with you; but I'd hardly claim that as a victory. I loved that Dilbert the other week, "Did you learn to debate on the Internet?" Asserting over and over that nobody has provided any facts, when in reality you simply refuse to acknowledge any facts you are provided, while claiming that you have the facts on your side while linking to propaganda, doesn't make you right -- it makes you boring, and unworthy of being debated seriously.

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Eric J. Bowman 3 years, 6 months ago

"Thank you for seemingly being the only one at the meeting that happened to represent the sane members of our society."

I disagree with Mr. Fielding; I think using the proceeds of a federal crime to fund law enforcement is asking for trouble and corruption -- if busting mmj providers who aren't following the law would result in the loss of the funds used to pay their salaries, what motivation would the police have to do their jobs? Catch-22.

"I know your side's talking points. They are based almost entirely on emotion and conjecture. I will, as we move forward, systematically dismantle all of your positions with fact and logic if need be."

Oh, give it a rest, Kevin. Aren't you the one who flew off the handle when I refused to agree that mj cures cancer? Emotion. Your rebuttal didn't link to any scientific evidence proving otherwise, and the only "proof" I've seen is anecdotal, so where are the facts and logic? It isn't worth anyone's time to argue with fanatics, but don't mistake the silence from all but your zealotous cheering section as some sort of victory.

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Eric J. Bowman 3 years, 6 months ago

Until this state gets its ducks in a row, we'll continue to attract this criminal element here to take advantage of the current situation. So I'm all in favor of moratoriums and bans, this mmj thing simply is not working to the benefit of the community right now. I applaud the effort at a bust, even if it was ham-handed -- these folks don't sell their pot, but it does seem to get bartered for services rendered, so perhaps the narc squad should pose as drywall contractors or something next time they seek to "harass" these poor, disabled criminals.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Alright hotshot, just to humor you....

"...or waste their time rebutting anecdotal stories about mj curing cancer, or how mj's miraculous healing properties are only suppressed due to conspiracy theories about Big Pharma."

Since we're all so gullible and easily ensnared by propaganda, can you prove that cannabis does NOT cure cancer?

Let's talk about big pharma and how they played a roll in all of this. First of all, let's look at Harry J Anslinger(they guy that turned cannabis into marijuana) and who all he was connected to.

"Some of his critics allege that Anslinger and the campaign against marijuana had an hidden agenda, DuPont petrochemical interests and William Randolph Hearst together created the highly sensational anti-marijuana campaign to eliminate hemp as an industrial competitor. Indeed, Anslinger did not himself consider marijuana a serious threat to American society until in the fourth year of his tenure (1934), at which point an anti-marijuana campaign, aimed at alarming the public, became his primary focus as part of the government's broader push to outlaw all drugs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J....

Secondly, we should look at the life of John D. Rockefeller and how he could have benefited from cannabis being outlawed.

"Since the early 1930’s, the Rockefeller family privatized the US healthcare industry, and similar takeovers occured in other Western countries. The result was a cartel controlling: All medical textbooks, All scientific research into the causes of disease, All scientific research into the creation of medicines, All published information about medical issues in popular and professional literature, All national and international laws governing medicine and medicines, All production, pricing and distribution of all medicines and soon, with Codex Alimentarius, even vitamins and minerals. Their profits are enormous because their pricing strategy has nothing to do with the cost of developing medicines – it simply reflects what the market will bear, and all costs incurred in securing a patent monopoly on the drug’s derivatives are passed on to the market." http://www.unfictional.com/big-pharma-war-on-health

Even though a large part of it revolved around industrial uses for hemp and how much of threat the cotton industry and other industrial giants viewed cannabis to be, big pharma still played a roll in the prohibition of cannabis. If you think for a second that John D. Rockefeller didn't have a hand in the prohibition of cannabis, you must be much more gullible than any of us.

And in case you're lacking in Rockefeller history, here's some bedside reading for you; http://www.rockefellerdrugwars.com/

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kevin fisher 3 years, 6 months ago

Just happened to check this thread again. Mr. Bowman, I have never flown off the handle here. Want citations? Howzabout these:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

or this:

http://www.naturalnews.com/026697_Marijuana_cancer_health.html

or this:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

or this:

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/january112008/cancer_treatment_11008.php

or this:

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

My victory sir, is seeing my mmj patients' lives and health improve. I do not, have not and will not argue that cannabis is a cure-all without a single negative side effect. HOWEVER, it is not your right to interfere with a patient/physician mutually agreed upon course of treatment.

Have a look here at what the DEA's own adminstrative law judge has to say about cannabis and the ridiculousness of it being classified as schedule I.

http://www.ccguide.org/young88.php

Lastly, name the authors-

"A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded....Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. "

and

"The State...stands between me and my body, and tells me what kind of doctor I must employ. When my soul is sick, unlimited spiritual liberty is given me by the State. Now then, it doesn't seem logical that the State shall depart from this great policy...and take the other position in the matter of smaller consequences -- the health of the body....Whose property is my body? Probably mine...If I experiment with it, who must be answerable? I, not the State. If I choose injudiciously, does the State die? Oh, no."

Don't tread on me, Mr. Bowman.

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Duster 3 years, 6 months ago

Lets write some new regulations. 1. Only dispensed in a pharmacy. 2. The county grows the pot and sells it. 3. Responsible Doctors must prescribe it for a known terminal illnesses. 4. All profits go to the county. 5. Doctors must be reviewed and appointed by a committee recommended by the town council. Sounds like a good way to get your hands around the problem. Who cares about all those potheads. Let them get their own stash. They shouldn't be driving anyway while they are in such pain. They should go back to the 7/11 for some more munchies

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Duster 3 years, 6 months ago

I'm sure the businesses would be willing to sell the pot they grow at a set price. a Little competition will help all of the terminal ill patients with thier bills and reduce the medical costs. Sounds like a great way for the businesses to lock in a set return of maybe 3-4% per year. With all the risk out of the transaction thier certainly can't be a large cost with watering a bunch of plants with some grow lights.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

Duster-

Looks like you're equally as ill-informed as the rest of the Routt County Cannabis Haters. You fit in with them nicely.

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Duster 3 years, 6 months ago

Pothead you should get out a little bit more. Staring at the TV after your SELF MEDICATION is making you paranoid. For some reason you think you are normal. That smoking POT is part of life. What problems are you hiding from? How long have these problems been unresolved....years. Maybe instead of SELF MEDICATION you should get some self help with a professional who can get you out of your nightmare.

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 6 months ago

You're so right. Where did we all go so wrong? Thanks Dust.

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Rob Douglas 3 years, 5 months ago

Today, the editorial board of one of the most prominent conservative publications in the country - the National Review - published an editorial today stating that medical marijuana should be viewed as a states' rights issue. see: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/270520/right-marijuana-editors

The National Review also came out in support of the Barney Frank/Ron Paul legislation stating: "A bill introduced by Reps. Barney Frank (D., Mass.) and Ron Paul (R., Texas) would remove the federal roadblock to state marijuana reform, and though the Republican House seems almost certain to reject it, the proposal deserves support from across the political spectrum."

In my opinion, the editors at the National Review are correct and this is a battle that true believers in states' rights, members of the liberty movement and civil libertarians of all stripes should join.

While this may not be the battle that many of us who wish to see the 10th Amendment restored to its appropriate prominence within the Bill of Rights would have selected as the ground upon which to take a stand, it is nonetheless a battle that has presented itself and will determine who truly believes in states' rights and who just mouthed the words when it was politically convenient.

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muck 2 years, 10 months ago

Since the Pile-it banned us from talking about Ms. Victory on her DUI, lets chat about her right here.

Shame on you people that supporter her and her ideas! She is gonna kill someone!

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muck 2 years, 10 months ago

Cain't wait for the jail report next week! Will the PILE-it not let us comment next week also?

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muck 2 years, 10 months ago

So driving under the influence and carring a weapon is what you want our town to be know for? You said you (Kelly Victory) were trying to save us! FROM WHAT? DRUNK FING DRIVERS is what you should be saving us from! Angry folks with guns. What a joke!

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muck 2 years, 10 months ago

I see the Pile-it protects their own! Stupid! unfair! Bias! Self opinionated RAGE!

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sparkle 2 years, 10 months ago

Was she with Lisa Watts during this most recent lapse of good judgement?

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rhys jones 2 years, 10 months ago

Oh gee, we've been talking about the same thing over in The Record chat. More'n one way to skin a cat.

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Ryan Fisher 2 years, 10 months ago

Commenting is now open on the actual Victory DUI article.

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