Our View: Vote on dispensaries is right choice

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Editorial Board, May 11 through Sept. 21, 2011

  • Scott Stanford, general manager
  • Brent Boyer, editor
  • Tom Ross, reporter
  • Laura Schmidt, community representative
  • Jim Miller, community representative

Contact the editorial board at 970-871-4221 or editor@SteamboatToday.com. Would you like to be a member of the board? Fill out a letter of interest now.

The Steamboat Springs City Council made the right decision in letting voters decide whether to ban medical marijuana dispensaries.

We live in a representative democracy, and in most cases, we advocate that decisions be left to City Council. Council members are in the best position to research and make informed choices on most issues. That’s what we elected them to do.

But the medical marijuana business is not a factual debate; rather, it’s a question about community standards. Every City Council meeting on the medical marijuana issue has been filled with passionate arguments on both sides. Even the council is divided — a motion to ban medical marijuana dispensaries failed by a 4-3 vote Tuesday night.

That’s why the 7-0 vote to put the issue on the November ballot was the correct one. The only way to know where the community’s moral and ethical stance is on this issue is through the election process.

A little history on how we got to this point: In 2000, Colorado voters approved Amendment 20, which made medical marijuana legal for people with certain medical conditions. The amendment passed with 54 percent of the vote statewide. In Routt County, 65 percent of voters supported Amendment 20.

So in theory, a majority of the county’s residents think patients who need medical marijuana should be able to use it. But support for medical marijuana use does not automatically translate into support for medical marijuana dispensaries. And given the expansion of the medical marijuana business in the 11 years since the vote, sentiments may have changed.

Dispensaries — facilities that grow and sell marijuana to patients registered to use it — have been in Steamboat since 2009. In January 2010, the City Council adopted policies regulating them, effectively allowing them to operate within the city limits.

The council was charting new territory. There was no way to know exactly what the impacts of the dispensaries would be. Some 18 months and three dispensaries later, the impacts are clearer.

There now are about 1,100 registered medical marijuana users in Routt County — almost 6 percent of the county’s adult population. One has to wonder whether the number of registered users would be that high without the dispensaries. And much to the chagrin of some council members, the dispensaries bring with them greater visibility of marijuana. A vote for dispensaries is a vote for increased medical marijuana advertising and media coverage. It simply comes with the territory.

Dispensary advocates argue that they allow for oversight and regulation of the industry, which is preferable to an untold number of grow operations providing marijuana to an ever-increasing population of registered users. And there are countless stories of people who say that medical marijuana is the only thing that adequately relieves the pain caused by debilitating illness. While banning dispensaries would have no affect on their right to use marijuana, it might make it harder for those patients to gain access to the drug.

Finally, medical marijuana businesses provide some level of economic benefit for the city in the form of payroll and sales tax contributions.

Steamboat city attorney Dan Foote noted that more than 100 of the state’s communities have enacted regulations allowing or banning medical marijuana businesses. And the Colorado Municipal League reports that 37 communities have voted on the issue.

Listening to the impassioned crowd argue both sides of the issue at Tuesday night’s City Council meeting and having watched council members struggle with their own stance on medical marijuana, it has become clear that a vote is the best means of resolving this issue. We urge the council to finalize the ballot issue when it meets in June.

Comments

mmjPatient22 3 years, 4 months ago

"But the medical marijuana business is not a factual debate; rather, it’s a question about community standards."

I guess someone who's smarter than I am will have to explain this one to me.

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rhys jones 3 years, 4 months ago

It'll just spring up in closets all over town, IF the vote is lost, which it never will be!!

I will go to every stoner I know, personally, and kick them out of their drug-induced stupor, to get them down to the polls!! It's a daunting task, but somebody has to do it. I might get hung up here or there, but I'll be around, fellow patients. If I miss a few, I hope you vote anyway.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!! LET'S VOTE!!

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rhys jones 3 years, 4 months ago

Oh BTW, and I hate to break the cardinal "subject" rule, pardon the brief digression, but I must use this venue to announce my recent reappearance here locally. Yup, the KID is BACK IN TOWN!! Arizona was getting a bit too warm; now I've got that out of my system for a few more years. I look forward to seeing many of you again!!

Cheerio, and have a great day!!

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JJ Southard 3 years, 3 months ago

A vote for dispensaries is NOT a vote more advertising and more "in-your-face" media about MMJ. We as the 3 local MMC's have agreed to tone our ADs down to simply our name, address and contact info.

Please stop digging our grave, Mr. Stanford. This a community paper. We are sick of "Your View".

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kevin fisher 3 years, 3 months ago

"Every City Council meeting on the medical marijuana issue has been filled with passionate arguments on both sides"

Obviously, this was not written by Mike Lawrence, who I see at most of these meetings. Because, the simple fact is, there has been debate at exactly TWO of the dozens of meetings. I've been to them all. Never a "nay" until Harrington on 4/5. Obfuscation. Not a great trait for an editorial board.

"One has to wonder whether the number of registered users would be that high without the dispensaries"

That is EXACTLY THE POINT. This is our argument. Taking away dispensaries is tantamount to taking away many people's right to cannabis as a medicinal therapy. There are but a few patients with the means, time and talent to properly cultivate marijuana. Patients should not be required to be farmers, too.

"A vote for dispensaries is a vote for increased medical marijuana advertising and media coverage."

I call B.S. As JJ noted, we three centers in Steamboat will only be advertising our basic info in the business directory. No more radio or T.V., either. Since the first ordinance was passed in Jan of 2010 we have been prohibited from using any image of cannabis in our marketing. I , for one, would like to see the Pilot ADHERE TO THE SAME RULES! How many times do we need to see a garden on the front page? It is my strongly held belief that we are at this juncture largely because of the Pilot's lack of good judgment in a rush to boost circulation. They hide behind the guise of first amendment protections to protect poor decisions made by their ad department in accepting full-page color copy and their general overall sensationalistic coverage of the debate. Believe me, if this was not such a small town and there was a better way to inform the patient base of our existence, the Pilot would not see dollar one from us.

It is important for you, the electorate of Steamboat, to understand that we three centers do not want your kids in our shop. We do not want our meds in their hands. We do not want you to have cannabis rammed down your throats on a daily basis. We only want safe access to prescribed meds by those in need. If this is indeed an ethical debate, the only quandary lies in how compassionate it is to promote a ban denying access to these constitutionally approved meds?

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Glenn Little II 3 years, 3 months ago

"Tell the children the truth!" ~ Bob Marley "Take the Indian Hemp Seed and sow it everywhere." ~George Washington LEGALIZE MARIJUANA for agricultural purposes, ban dispensaries if you can, and everyone can still grow there own pot. There is no stopping what started this country !!!

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

I keep hearing about the "brown shirts," but the guys that always bothered me were in blue.

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sledneck 3 years, 3 months ago

Stick around Mr jones; the brown ones will be along soon.

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 3 months ago

And I am sick of the "woohoo" presence of marijuana in our community. Any person without a monetary profit and interest or a "high times" user would look at the situation here in this county and see true "medical" has been relegated to somewhere way down the list of importance. Have you seen one real defense here that stands on the "medical" necessity of this? Is there even one of our medical professionals in our own community that writes these scrips? Do you see the true medical community standing behind this in any fashion? Do you see tangible and serious concern for the moral responsibility medicine should elicit in the teenage mentality advertising campaigns?

We've got "stoners" protecting their source and committed to dragging the potatoes out to vote...tiki shacks super imposed at the base of our world class ski mountain in full page ads as a representation of our community... "high times" competitions, free ice cream give-aways, joints of the day and guys in pot leis and wife beater shirts winning prizes for the best "medicine" splashed all over our paper. Their prize winning blend: “It is a mellow high, sort of a couch potato, evening smoke,” he said. “You wouldn’t want to smoke it during the day if you want to function.”

For God's sake, only smoke it in the evening if functioning is an important thing to you.

With NO medicinal mention whatsoever, just who had the best blend that didn't make a total doorknob out of you. Worst of it all, they've even gone so far to tout their "primary care" facility.

This is really how we want our community represented?

Ever see Pfizer hold competitions for their best Lipitor or cancer drug? Having woohoo high times events? Doesn't the mere label of "high times" just sorta maybe detract from your "medical" sham?

I have 2 kids I am raising in this town; I thank God that they think this is as much of a joke as the stoners and producers and sellers have made it out to be. You aren't even convincing a 10 year old folks.

I've got no problem with MEDICAL marijuana. The problem is that this industry is lacking regulation that every other single medical industry in the USA answers to. Regulate the ever loving stuff out of these guys, (let's see how many of them stick around to rise to the standards of real medicine), slap fines and advertising regulations and trials and approvals for their medicine up one side and down their other, TAX them to the hilt, let's take the "woohoo" out of it and see how much fun it is then.

BTW Stoners........heeeeeeeellllllllllllllloooooooooooo.........in the words of the professionals......is there anybody out there? Did ya catch the May 18 article that Garfield COUNTY is all over this, the State is moving toward stronger regulation, and your woohoo days just might be numbered in this city and this county too. You might re-think the party boy in our face public presence. The grown ups have shown up.

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Fred Duckels 3 years, 3 months ago

Lisa, It is fruitless to argue with this crowd of overachievers, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Wow, if that's what it takes to grow up, I hope I stay a kid forever!! Doin' good so far.

I just thought I'd comment on the doctoral advice I have witnessed.

When I went to the VA hospital in Phoenix, for a procedure with a camera (thanks Tom, for the prompt last X-mas, but not for your pot article today. I see we are in other camps there) at several stages of the examination I was questioned what other medications I might be on, even by the procedure physician. I always replied only what Colorado had me on, here, wanna see my card? They always smirked, not a word of discouragement.

A couple of years ago I got a new eye prescription, locally, and at the end of the examination, to explain this new bright light, the Doc said "I'm just checking for glaucoma." I said "I take preventative measures." He chuckled. On the way out the door, he called from the back -- "Keep up the preventative measures!!"

I know it goes against every grain of their brainwashing by the AMA and Squibb, but every medical professional I've talked to has been nothing if not encouraging.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 3 months ago

As for the argument that other places are banning or more severely regulating mmj dispensaries, those people might want to look at the voting patterns of the different places. SB voters are not a conservative group. Routt County voted 62-35 Obama over McCain and the county is more conservative than City of SS.

The voters in the City of SS votes like the voters of Boulder except SB voters have more of a libertarian streak that includes a reluctance to overregulate businesses as well. I think putting this on the November is likely to have unintended consequences of affecting city council elections such as it being entirely possible that every winning candidate will support mmj dispensaries.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 3 months ago

Lisa, you have no clue what you are talking about. We are the MOST regulated industry in the nation...let alone the world. The vote will go our way...mark my words. Grown ups are here?? We have families too, lady. And D&C ain't a couple of youngins....

Thanks for your input... We've heard it all before.

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JJ Southard 3 years, 3 months ago

Lisa, I think your problem is with the Aloha's "Crew".... and The Steamboat Pilot & Today.

These two areas of disgust haven't been turning my cookie lately, either.

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hereandthere 3 years, 3 months ago

The contrast between Routter and LisaWatts comments is enlightening in itself, While Routter presents a well thought out and reasoned statement, LisaWatts chooses to beguile us with emotion and derision. This debate would benefit if all could follow the example that Routter has offered. Facts and reason trump kneejerk diatribes.

And Fred, you might want to be careful, or we might come to believe you really do support social engineering.

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hereandthere 3 years, 3 months ago

I would like to refute one point from LisaWatts comment directly. I have recieved two "scrips" now from a local established doctor. A doctor that does require a doctor/patient relationship. He happens to be an Osteopath, which I would presume that you , as well as possibly Harrington and Flannigan, may not consider as the "true medical community". But I will let the Osteopaths weigh in on that discussion.

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Bill Dalzell 3 years, 3 months ago

. A vote for dispensaries is a vote for increased medical marijuana advertising and media coverage. It simply comes with the territory.

Greedy, Selfish, Don't care about the community. Just a few thoughts about the Pilot. You are the problem! End of story. Why won't anyone like city council or the police put more pressure on The Pilot. It's taken a step beyond ridiculous with that quote.

Secondly a city vote without a county vote is moronic. I can't believe everyone isn't slapped in the face with this fact.

Lastly, Lisa your view doesn't offend me in the least but your rant is pathetic. You talk of all the advertising the dispensaries want to do and will do in the future, yet there are several posts that state the contrary. Are you really that out of touch. I bet $50 that your kids smoke and you are just unaware. Kind o the same as your awareness of the issue at hand.

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kevin fisher 3 years, 3 months ago

Lisa, as a Tea Party activist you should be for personal freedoms and sovereignty over one's body and mind. What gives? Also isn't this a little ditty you recited:

“They tax our land, they tax our bed, tax the table at which we are fed,” she said, clad in an American flag shirt. “They tax our work, they tax our pay, we work for peanuts, anyway.”

So what's your rant on taxes. You write you have no problem w/ "medical marijuana." Are you aware there is no state sales tax on any other form of prescription drug?

"The world is full of fools and faint hearts; and yet everyone has courage enough to bear the misfortunes, and wisdom enough to manage the affairs, of his neighbor. " ~Benjamin Franklin

Hypocrisy is very unbecoming.

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sledneck 3 years, 3 months ago

Oh My God! Lisa Watts is a Tea Party activist? NO FREAKIN WAY !!!???

We have people belonging to an organization whose platform consists of smaller, less intrusive government and yet their own words are: "The industry is lacking regulation...regulate the stuff... slap fines...regulate the advertising...slap fines... trials...tax them to the hilt..."

If this attitude prevails among the tea party crowd then all is lost.

Lisa, if you are indeed a tea party person then I beg you to get out of that movement until you have at least a BASIC grasp of freedom (which you clearly now lack).

Meanwhile, to help cure your inexcuseable ignorance please do society a favor and read (several times if necessary) the following titles: The Law by Bastiat, Liberty Defined by Ron Paul, Human Action by Ludwig von Mises, Capitalism and Freedom by M. Freidman any title by Thomas Sowell or Walter E. Williams or Alexis De Tocqueville. Most of these people actually understood freedoms true nature rather than just giving it lipservice.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Kudos to all. A well-reasoned discussion, on both sides, no personal jabs either way, lately. Now THIS is a forum!!

I'm just writing to say go ahead and include the county too -- I know a lot of cool cowboys. It's still in the bag.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Although I have problems with BillyD's assertions that maybe the police could control the Pilot and what they print. Wasn't there a Constitutional Amendment about that, way back when?

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

RMR helps pay the bills. And what do you do, Mr.Skeptic?

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

I'm just saying, you can buy ad space too. Free plug, Pilot.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Sorry again -- here's the mike now... somebody else should talk now. Break time. Good to see ya, Mr. Wedel!!.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

no really, go for it. Didn't mean to kill this rap. The Vote was the topic, and I repeat:

BRING IT ON!!!

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kathy foos 3 years, 3 months ago

The money that the Pilot makes is the only unregulated money made by m.m.j in the county,besides the radio station.The m.m.j business people comply to the laws, but advertisers answer to no one."A vote for dispensaries is a vote for increased medical m.m.j advertising and media coverage.It simply comes with the territory."That is not a situation that law abiding medical marijuana citizens can control at all,nor can regular citizens control exposure from the media in the form of tasteless commercials and things that annoy non-patients.Location and once the patients find the store they can find out specials etc.Don't act like an innocent victim Steamboat Pilot.You are sensationalizing the industry and patients to make an unregulated profit on the industry and patients and if the something adverse occurs you can't just say."It simply comes with the coverage"News medias should not overdo the news in any way.You need to answer up also for exploiting a very regulated industry in a very tacky way.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

kathy -- you are the most astute contributor yet. You are entirely correct -- the Pilot's practices of glorifying pot and all its ramifications, for whatever commercial gain, both in advertising and increased circulation, were not the subject of my last tirade -- their 1st Amendment rights were what I was defending. There is no question that it is tasteless, the worst example of "agenda-setting" I have seen in recent years.(There goes my next job.) Almost makes one miss the old plane crash.

I did some time in TV News too; I ran red lights, because if I didn't get flames, my stuff never saw the air. I know what news is all about: Whatever the news director THINKS the people will gobble up; it's a sponsor- and rating-thing, the bucks tell the tale. You are confronted with a beast already.

I could tell you about the Homeland Security place I helped build, where they screen and dictate EVERYTHING that is broadcast as news, nationwide, always (national and international of course (let the locals yak)), they screen it first, then structure as necessary. The reporters are told what to say, any network you watch. Scary stuff, and I ain't that stoned, or wacko. I've got a story for you... and that qualifies as the dreaded "digression," departure from topic, but I thought it somehow relevant, the media being the subject now, and the perverted extent they will go to, to get watchers to watch, readers to read, and talkers to talk, just like we are now. Like I always say -- I like to keep 'em talking!!

Good to hear from you, girl!!

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 3 months ago

My friend Mr. Duckels, just puttin 'em on notice Fred. Just putting them on notice.

DR, (you've got to be kidding me) Green Jeans: regulated my big toe. See, here's the problem DUDE, cough up the MD. Operating as DR Green Jeans, you are splashed all over the web as a "Marijuana Specialist" and have labeled yourself DOCTOR. Yeah? Well, so is the stoner in high school everyone calls Doobie. I've checked the AMA and the Colorado Division of Registrations, Zippo on that doctor thing. Unless of course in the courage-less world of internet posting you are operating under an alias. In that healthy green fog you've somehow come up with an MD? And that shouldn't worry anyone?

How bout I pretend to be a doctor that is a "Kids of Not Really Doctors Specialist" and I advise one of your kids? OMG, a tea party radical advising your kids. Get my drift? No problem, right? I'm a DOCTOR, really I am. I mean, bottom line, you are representing yourself as a doctor and my kid is exposed to that. Geez, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you guys are so regulated, where is your malpractice insurance? You know, being doctors and primary care tiki shacks and all, you should PAY to carry malpractice insurance when the inevitable fall out comes your way. What a great idea. Pardon me if I've got mis-information. Just show me the degree.

In the meantime, the rest of us will be real busy.

So, in REALITY, (hold the baked ice cream and the prize winning don't smoke it if you want to function joint of the day), there are 32 plus and counting counties in the state of Colorado that have active and successful actions against MMJ and going for banning it's operations in their counties altogether. 26 counties have successfully banned in unincorporated areas. Adams county has almost booted it completely. 47 municipalities have.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_16859879 Read all about it.

Regulated and in the bag? Well, okie dokie smokie.

Respectfully,

DR. TEA PARTY RADICAL - Personally, I just might award myself many other doctorates and degrees of stuff, stay tuned. Oh, geez. NOT, seems I don't have the scrip.

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Lisa Watts 3 years, 3 months ago

GEEZ Amazing this internet thing.

http://www.naturalchoicemmj.com/MMJ-Dr--Referrals.html

DrGreenGenes Website even gives easy access to a doctor ready, willing and able to write the scrip. Do you need an MMJ card? Does marijuana help you? Upon meeting with her, you document your condition, fill out some paperwork, give an ID and $140. Cheapest in the Region! Just leave a voicemail and she will get back to you. 970-371-2968.

Well now, that kinda takes the doctoring right outta doctor. I think I'll try that with a few of our well respected doctors in this community in the morning as well. I'll just TELL them I need Vicodin and a triple bypass and get em to write that right out. Pfft. What am I thinking? I'll be disabled while I am recovering, I better get the lollipops and baked ice cream too.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 3 months ago

Wow, there is no arguing with that.

Personally, I am not that upset that for some people it is a game to get marijuana legally instead of illegally. Because, for me, I am not terribly concerned about the sanctity of the medical profession which I think is already sufficiently compromised in so many ways that doctors writing mmj recommendations is not a big problem. The reason it is not a big problem is that unlike Vicodin which can be physically addictive, overdose can cause death and there is a threat of liver damage, marijuana is not nearly that dangerous of a drug.

So unless Dr Green Gene (amazingly, apparently not a medical doctor) is prescribing mmj to Lisa Watts' kids (presumably still minors) without her knowledge then why does it bother her so much?

It seems undisputed that alcohol and tobacco are worse than marijuana. Even CDC and AMA reports warning of marijuana usage do not claim it is worse than alcohol or tobacco. They may list reasons why marijuana is not healthy and so should not be used, but don't make comparisons to alcohol or tobacco. When a study makes those comparisons then they find that alcohol and tobacco are worse than marijuana.

And laws making marijuana illegal have fundamentally failed to limit availability or usage for now at least 40 years. How many more years and billions to be spent on that lost war?

As Ron Paul said: "How many people here would use heroin if it were legal? I bet nobody would. Oh yeah, I need the government to take care of me. I don't want to use heroin, so I need these laws."

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JJ Southard 3 years, 3 months ago

:)

That IS the way it works, Lisa.

Thanks for plugging my website.

I never claimed to be a Doctor, Scott. It's quirky nickname....I've had it for years.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

The prescription, or "recommendation," has to come from a certified and degreed MD. I never saw where DrGreenGenes maintained that he could prescribe it; did I miss something? If somebody wants to call themselves Dr in the Pilot forums, what does it hurt anybody? He's not prescribing real drugs, the stuff that can really kill you. I told y'all about the real drugs that killed my brother with liver cancer, at age 48. Real doctors killed him, as sure as I am typing this.

Sounds like somebody needs to grow up, maybe the ones pointing fingers. Then again, that just reveals much about the source, eh? There is no literacy or maturity test required to post in this forum, otherwise it'd be a lot shorter. It takes all kinds, to fill the parking lots. Thank you for your two cents' worth, Lisa, now could you find it in your kind heart to lighten up a bit? Sounds like YOU need a good bong hit.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Quick digression, an informal survey:

How many of us are married? I'm not. I'm just wondering how you can get all twisted and wrought, tense and even angry, over something somebody you don't even know said across town, and continue to maintain a healthy relationship. Lisa? Fred? Ya married?

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JJ Southard 3 years, 3 months ago

One more thing, when someone is in need of pain medication and over-the-counter options aren't working....they get an appt with a doctor and have it checked it out. If the doctor agrees that the patient would benefit from pain medication, the doctor writes the 'script... Same thing is happening when a patient , in need of the benefits of mmj, meets with a doctor.

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1999 3 years, 3 months ago

wow Lisa..get a grip....that was the most ridiculous non sensical post I've ever seen relating to this subject.

BRAVO! YOU WIN A PRIZE!

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

As I have previously alluded, I am an amateur psychologist of sorts. Sometimes it just amazes me, not just WHAT some people think, but HOW. We obviously see the world with very different eyes.

That said, I guess anybody has the right to speak their mind in this forum. I'm just reminded of a saying, this one by Confucius:

It is better to keep the mouth shut, and let people wonder if you are stupid Than to open it and remove all doubt.

I like EVERYBODY'S posts; they tell me a lot about the folks!!

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SMRFF 3 years, 3 months ago

I am very interested in hearing why opponents such as Fred Duckels, Seeuski, Jodi, etc are so staunchly against marijuana. I respect the fact that each individual is entitled to his/her opinion, but I find it hard to actually respect your opinions in this particular case as not one of you has been able to provide sufficient evidence supporting your stance.

Simply saying, "I don't agree with this" or "I don't think that should be legal," is all good and well, but it doesn't mean a darn thing if you can't provide the "why".

I sometimes wonder how many of these morally superior good ol' boys and girls would change their view on such a harmless plant if Newt Gingrich or Sarah Palin came out in support of legalization.

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 3 months ago

Also, calling someone a TEA party activist is not generally an insult. The part of the TEA party that talks about constitutional rights and the desire to limit government's reach touches on a longstanding libertarian tradition in this country. But for that to make any sense requires that government is not expected to be a nanny state on issues that concern one person. For libertarian philosophy to make any sense requires that people have some criteria of when the issue impacts people enough to justify government intruding into people's liberties and regulating particular behavior. Such as speed limits are intended to make the roads safer for all so that it is not legal for someone to drive so fast to endanger all others on the road.

So when a TEA party activist comments on mmj then there is some expectation that there will be some explanation of why the harm raises to the level justifying government's intrusion into personal behavior. Well, that was not the case.

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Fred Duckels 3 years, 3 months ago

SMRFF, It is obvious that regardless of the results of a vote, anarchy will rule the day here. We have a group that is not going to take "no" for an answer. I object to many of the entitlement items that our politicians spend money on, to ensure their reelection, but I still follow the law and pay my taxes. I feel strongly about those shortcircuiting the system, and find it equally disgusting, compared to your need to have the law satisfy your idea of justice. This is the same as refusing to pay taxes.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Fred --

Anarchy ruled the day, BEFORE the dispensaries opened. I knew 6 places you could score, in Dream Island alone. All dried up now. You want to go back to that? Send that money to Mexico?

I WOULD be interested to hear how much the dispensaries pay in taxes. Relax, Fred, the government is getting their cut too.

These votes are the most civilized things that have ever happened. Anarchy, Fred?

I'm really curious to hear, why you care so much about what other people do in their spare time. Got a little too much time on your hands yourself, Fred?

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

A vote for dispensaries is a vote for taxes!! Let the dopers save the day!!

Really, to outlaw dispensaries would be to deny a significant revenue source.

Yes on Taxes!! It's the American Way!!

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SMRFF 3 years, 3 months ago

Fred - I, too, follow the law. I don't even speed. Nothing you wrote pertains to what I was getting at in my post, though.

Let me simply - Fred, why are you against the legalization of marijuana? Not MMJ. Not MMCs. Just marijuana in general. What do you have against marijuana?

If you personally don't enjoy marijuana, that is totally fine and understandable, but why are you against others having the right to use it when that would have absolutely no impact on your life? Personally, I do not like beer or liquor, so I choose not to drink.

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hereandthere 3 years, 3 months ago

Once again Fred, you seem to be supporting social engineering, which is exactly what the banning of dispenseries is. So whats up with that? Or is social engineering only OK when it supports your agenda?

Me thinks the emperor has no clothes.

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Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago

"Got a little too much time on your hands yourself, Fred?" Well, Rhys, it's obvious what consumes most of your copious free time. Keep on typin' and tokin' (just pokin' fun).

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greenwash 3 years, 3 months ago

Hi Fred better check with your employees....I saw a Duckles truck out in front of RMR a week or so ago...How fitting.

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SMRFF 3 years, 3 months ago

Haha! I bet it was his best employee, too. How ironic would that be?

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muck 3 years, 3 months ago

Hey Fred- Lets just say i know a few of those people greenwash points out that work for you. Q-carbo has kept them employeed with you for many years. Look it up Fred. Q-carbo.

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blue_spruce 3 years, 3 months ago

You know, when it really comes down to it these anti-government, "Tea Party" folks - such as Fred Duckels, Seeuski, Jodi, Lisa W., etc... - only want less government when it comes to things that they do not like. What BS. You guys are all full of it.

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muck 3 years, 3 months ago

Oh wait! Only MMJ doctors write false and fake prescription or "recommendations" for their patience. Could you imagine such a thing could happen?

11.5 people per hour 270 people a day over 110,000 per year die in the USA per year to prescription drugs.

AP reports today- WHEAT RIDGE - A federal grand jury has indicted a Wheat Ridge doctor for illegally distributing Oxycodone. Dr. Kevin Clemmer remains in federal custody and his office number has a voice message box that is currently full.

The indictment - filed last week - outlines more than 50 individual counts of "knowingly and intentionally" distributing Oxycodone - a powerful and addictive pain killer.

Clemmer's office is located near 40th Avenue and Wadsworth Boulevard in Wheat Ridge. The indictment alleges the illegal distribution occurred during various dates in 2010. Additional detail was not immediately available from either the U.S. Attorney's Office or the local office for the Drug Enforcement Administration.

The indictment also names three other people who are believed to be employees within Clemmer's office.

The Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies website currently lists Clemmer's medical license as "active."

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Jeff --

Thank you for noticing!! While it APPEARS that I too have nothing better to do, than poke fun in these forums, let me assure you I get a lot done, between my appearances here. This is my office, too. I wake up, and I am already at work. Computer entrepreneurs lead a tough life. I was up and at 'em at 4 AM Sunday. And I just now woke up from a nap. This computer will work any time, and so might I. The quiet times are the best.

I've got this chat bookmarked, and look back in, from time to time. See who said what, since I left. It used to be Maynard's tripe, but we beat that one to death.

I just like to provoke some thought, elicit a chuckle, and at least keep 'em talking, at any rate. Thus explaining my lowly presence here.

YES ON TAXES!! I obey the laws too, NOW. And I would love to support my beautiful city and country with my taxes. Do my part, ya know. I hated when that money all went to Mexico, and it was a crime too.

Prescription drugs killed my brother. And I never truly understood computers, until I debugged a program stoned. The case is closed, for me. Rock on!!

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Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago

Yeah Rhys,
Compare and contrast an interrupt with a race condition. Like you know the difference between a mutex and a kotex.

No offense, but you're a low-end computer home-hobbyist.

(just waiting for 4-5 paragraphs in rebuttal.)

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sledneck 3 years, 3 months ago

I ofttimes agree with Fred on many issues... most, even. However, I agree with blue-spruce on this one: It seems like a lot of people give lip-service to freedom, independance and the Constitution but when their personal (and trivial) wants come into play then freedom of others' gets forgotten all too quickly. I am affraid we have all become too used to having the state order people around on our behalf.

More importantly, the notion put forth by Fred above is one that I simply can not support. That being that if the law says something then we should follow it. NO! Many years ago Frederic Bastiat, a champion of freedom the likes of which this Earth rarely sees, said in his book "The Law" that: "If the law is to be respected then the law must be RESPECTABLE".

We have too many laws therefore the law is not respectable. We have unconstitutional laws therefore the law is not respectable. We have conflicting laws therefore the law is not respectable.

There is an old proverb that says: "Fire is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master." So too is the state. We must stop using the state to do for us what the law forbids us from doing for ousrelves; bossing our neighbors around, taking their property, running their lives. We are not allowed to do these things and we should require the same from government.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Jeff --

Blah blah; there's nine million ways to specialize in computers. I inherited a manual construction estimating system, and automated it with PHP and MySQL. Child's play for a genius like you, I'm sure, but it presented its own challenges, and I think I can honestly say I have been places no human ever has before. Now I have to try to sell it to a slow construction industry -- this developer wears many hats. My hat is off to you, Super Nerd; I'm just trying to make a living. And thank you for your opinion!!

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

So Jeff -

I don't recall seeing your presence here, other than to razz me. So tell us, sir, how do you come down on the issue this forum is about? Should we vote on it? And which way would you vote, if we might be so bold? That WAS the topic...

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Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago

Rhys --

My bad. I was just making light of your verbosity. Most uber-geeks (you definitely qualify) are not quite as prolific at the keyboard as you appear to be. I tend to be terse. As an aside, I'm surprised that mutex/kotex got past the censors. Bits, bytes and fortnights. Cheers!

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Jeff -- We cool. Yeah I talk a lot; computers literally chose me, and I had no choice in the matter. Too late did I realize the ultimate comeback: Oh yeah, if I had all kinds of time to waste on worthless knowledge, I could tell you how the quarks affect the nocturnal emissions, but I'm too busy trying to squeeze a buck outta this box.

Cute too, eh? Happy hacking!!

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Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago

The preferred, proper, professional and prehistoric term is "Code Monkey!"

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Mired in proprietary lingos for far too long, I skated out of ever having to be a "bit-twiddler."

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Oh NO!! Not pizza TOO!! That's how I fix the munchies!! It's on my prescription, Doctor's orders.

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sparkle 3 years, 3 months ago

Fred D. and Lisa W., do you enjoy a cocktail or libation on occasion?

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mmjPatient22 3 years, 3 months ago

In spite of the wayward direction that this discussion got carried away on, I'll attempt a minor coarse correction with an article that matters on more than just a county/city level.

I'm all for having a vote here in Routt county and I fully intend to vote my view when that day comes. However, it might be completely irrelevant in the not so distant future. A bunch of crazy Californians, and some folks from other parts too, have filed a suit in a US Circuit court to force the Obama administration to finally make a decision(within 60 days) on the matter after 8 years of our government attempting to stall it into extinction. The original petition was filed in 2002 with the Bush administration and has been ignored ever since.

So, don't feel bad prohibitionists. You're not the only ones that are completely incapable of producing valid arguments for your side of the debate. Heck, our own government can't even come up with ANY valid reasons to keep cannabis listed as a Schedule 1 narcotic.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/05/medical_marijuana_us_lawsuit.php

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JJ Southard 3 years, 3 months ago

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/us-arizona-marijuana-idUSTRE74O0B720110525

Arizona Gov. is taking the Feds to court to clarify if the program they are preparing to implement is legal. This will be interesting.

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Jeff --

Looks like I might have to learn about mutex's soon. A little Ubuntu problem sprang out of nowhere, now my Skype doesn't work, the forums ain't caught up, and yet again I am my own nerd and counsel, learning whatever weirdness I must -- screens,in this case -- before I can resume the pursuit of a normal life. Got a minute? I might have some questions about mutex's. Whatever nerd I have to be. Ciao!!

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Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago

Rhys --

What does Skype have to do with Ubuntu and mutexes?

Regardless, if you have some serious questions, ask away.

Click on my username, "Contact" and send a message. We don't need to bore these fine people, and further clog the blog, with nerdy details.

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dogking09 3 years, 3 months ago

I only wish that all the illegal immigrants in town stealing jobs from Americans would raise this much discussion. I have been here 25 years...now its time to go. Adios amigos and thanks for the fish!.....naw you cant get rid of me that easy you illegal lovin MFs - long live USA - white, brown, yellow, red, orange whatevr your skin color...as long as your an American... now legalize or do what3ever i dont really care whoever wants to buy my vote, can. im broke because 85% of the construction and restaurant jobs are now taken by illegals. and if you dont like my post you can pay me not to do it again. like i said before...and before too long...the best cheapest weed will be offered by Julio for half the price and you will see where im coming from..

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rhys jones 3 years, 3 months ago

Jeff -- nerdness and lame excuses on the way via contact you suggest, and thanks for the tip!! Now I know how to hit on some of these fine ladies... Ciao!!

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Scott Wedel 3 years, 3 months ago

Mutexes are how you converted a many threaded program into a single threaded program.

Interrupt changes what you are doing.

Race condition is vying for the same resource at the same time.

Maybe the Ubuntu application grabbed the sound or mic device and won't share it with Skype. As an oldtimer, lsof would show that quickly enough.

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