Dan Pichiotino: Bike problems?

Advertisement

After seeing the multiple online comments after last week’s bicycle invasion I just had to chime in.

Fact: Bicycles are vehicles and, as such, are subject to the same rules of the road as any non-commercial car, truck, motorcycle, etc. The fact that you need no license, insurance or any knowledge of traffic laws to ride your bike down the road (or sidewalk, which is illegal) is where the problem lies.

Fact: Colorado roadways are designed for motorized travel and commerce. Notice the “bike path” is less than 6 feet wide and two-lane roads are 24-feet wide. Just to clarify, the roads aren’t designed for cyclists to travel four abreast and at 30 miles under the speed limit.

Sure, cycling is a great activity for the whole family and something we want in our community, but your groceries don’t come here by bicycle, nor does lumber, nor nearly any of the goods we have here or anywhere in the valley. People who disobey traffic laws while driving a car are ticketed and after enough points can lose their license. Why doesn’t this happen with bicycles?

State and local law enforcement have a responsibility to start issuing warnings and tickets to irresponsible cyclists and ensuring safety for cyclists and motorists alike. Maybe even put “share” back in “Share the Road.” I don’t consider myself a bike-hater, but it is a fact that irresponsible cyclists create a tremendous hazard on Colorado roadways and disrupt commerce by their careless actions. So all you cyclists remember this when you pass on the right, ignore a stop sign, or move along at 30 mph below the speed limit — you are expecting a lot from motorists who surely have no intention of a collision.

Be smart, be safe and educate your children. Maybe just this once think about the truck driver who would have to live with the fact that they just ran over a 10-year-old who blew through a stop sign and into a 90,000-pound vehicle that couldn’t go from 25 to 0 instantly. Who is to blame there? Police, parents, the child? Let’s avert tragedies rather than cope with them after they happen.

Dan Pichiotino

Steamboat Springs

Comments

mtroach 3 years, 5 months ago

Right on Dan, it seems you agree that our roads need to be redesigned and rebuilt for the safety of all users. It seems you also agree that all road users need increased licensing and training, as well as enforcement of current laws as they pertain to all road users.

0

Fred Duckels 3 years, 5 months ago

Dan, you nailed this problem, the fact that cycling is the "in" thing does not relieve them of the responsibilities heaped on the rest of us. The last thing a trucker wants to see is bycicles ahead. At this time the "lose lose" scenario goes into effect.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

There are more cars that roll through stop signs than bicycles. There are more accidents and fatalities caused my automobiles, trucks, and buses than bicycles. Your concerns are focused on the victim rather than the actual cause.

0

mmjPatient22 3 years, 5 months ago

"There are more cars that roll through stop signs than bicycles."

You're joking, right?

0

Essam Welch 3 years, 5 months ago

The first driving permit to be issued by an authority was in Germany as Carl Benz needed a permit to operate a smelly and noisy automobile in a community of annoyed residents. Not until automobile fatalities soared in the US did licensing become routine here. I grew up in fort collins where the roads are unusually broad. We were tought in school that the width was set when horse driven carriages used the roads and the roads were wide enough to turn the cairrages around. My family here in Routt used horse drawn carriages on our roads before the first automobile ever reached the valley. Fact: Roads are built for people. As a free man, I do not need a license nor will I accept the idea of licensing to do ANYTHING that does not impose on others freedoms. You do need a licence to hurtle along in your multi thousand pound, resource wasting, polluting, noisy, automobile as to limit the consequences of your chosen activity. Your decision to drive has an effect on others freedom to live in a healthy society. My decision to bike on our public right of ways only has the effect of compromising you ability to drive carelessly. Please take care.

0

Brian Kotowski 3 years, 5 months ago

This morning, I parked my "multi thousand pound, resource wasting, polluting, noisy, automobile" at the library and had just exited the vehicle. A cyclist came rolling into the parking lot at a pretty good clip. He was one-handing the handlebar, and using the other hand to fiddle with something behind the saddle - oblivious that he was on a collision course with my pickup. I shouted "look out!", and he barely managed to avoid a collision. I hope he's more cautious on the road than he is in a parking lot.

My decision to park at the library "only has the effect of compromising you [sic] ability to [ride] carelessly. Please take care."

0

mmjPatient22 3 years, 5 months ago

And point in case to the comment I made earlier....

Whilst doing the speed limit through Brooklyn this morning, I counted at least 6 bicyclists that completely neglected both of the "STOP" signs that I am required to stop at, by law. One of them even started "sprinting" through their pedals about 20-30 yards before the sign (just to make sure of.....???). Of coarse(and not to be pompous or arrogant), my vehicle came to a complete rest before taking off from both of those intersections both times that I went through them this morning.

I guess my biggest complaint is the blatant double-standard that's taking place with this whole "share the road" thing. We all know you bicyclists bear a pretty heavy responsibility to make sure we're all well aware of your entitlement to the same road space as all the vehicles, but it would appear that operating under even roughly the same rules as is required of the other vehicles on the road is way too far out of the question for many of you. It seems that the attitude coming from the biking community is akin to, "if ya don't like it, get off the road," and maybe even, "we're not destroying the planet(like all you damn cars), so we're not only better than you but are entitled to more freedom on the road than you."

Do I need to stand corrected?

0

james Patterson 3 years, 5 months ago

My question is why do I have to pay registration fees, licensing fees, and usage fees for the roads, trails, lakes that I use, but bikers can demand trails, lanes on roads/highways, etc and pay no licensing fee, registration fees, or usage fees?
I have to agree with MJ22..... there seems to be an elitist attitude that they don't have to pay their share or obey the rules of the road (or trail for that matter) "Stay on the Trail" doesn't seem to apply to bikes. I see it all the time. I would love an ATV lane on the roads and highways. I would use a lot less gas riding my ATV instead of my gas guzzler.....

0

Amy Harris 3 years, 5 months ago

The fees that you pay, sky pilot, don't begin to cover what it actually costs to build and maintain the roads you drive on. The taxes we all pay, whether we drive a car or not, make up for that shortfall. Vehicles cause wear and tear on roads, while bicycles have almost zero impact on the road. So be nice to bike riders, as they are subsidizing your vehicle use.

0

Brian Kotowski 3 years, 5 months ago

skypilot:

Anything that keeps Big Brother from reaching into my wallet is to be encouraged, in my book.

To those like Essam, who look down their noses at those of us driving "multi thousand pound, resource wasting, polluting, noisy, automobile(s)", here's why I won't be changing my tune anytime soon. Let's take the Chevy Volt as an example:

I drive an F150. It's paid off, free & clear. It's worth about 10k in resale, and gets about 17mpg.

A Volt costs $40,000 (using round numbers). Let's assume the net asset cost of a Volt to me is $30,000. I will need to find $30,000 in fuel cost savings on a net present value basis to justify buying a Volt. This assumes that I don't finance the vehicle, ie, I have $30K in cash burning a hole in my pocket.

Let us suppose for exposition that the Volt gets 60mpg of actual gas purchased (it runs on gas and electricity). Gas is $4/gal, and I drive 15k miles per year.

I use 1,000 gallons of gas per year at an expense of $4,000; with a Volt I would use 250 gallons and spend $1,000. That's an annual gas expense savings of $3,000.

Assuming that the electricity to feed the car is free to me (a horrendous assumption), and there is no time value of money, it would take 10 years to recoup the expense of the vehicle relative to the one I currently own. During that period, the battery will likely need to be replaced at least once, the expense of which I'd write off as a wash, due to likely upkeep expense for my current vehicle.

The more likely scenario is that I finance the vehicle, and electricity is nowhere near free, both of which imply that the real time to recoup the expense is more like 12-15 years. And quite beyond the economic considerations, the Gaia-friendly cars aren't anywhere near as utilitarian as what I presently own.

Not worth it.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

Colorado Law: A: State law requires:

1. That pedestrians give vehicles the opportunity to stop before entering a crosswalk
2. That vehicles yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. NOTE: A bicyclist is afforded the same rights as a pedestrian in a crosswalk when the bicyclist enters the crosswalk at walking speed.
0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

The road taxes pay for improvements and upkeep. The easement is for all movement of people and things: horse, bikes, sheep, autos, buses, trucks, tractors, pedestrians, carts, cattle, etc.. We all have the same rights to public easements. Maybe the answer is to provide more easements. Tax future-destroying vehicles and turn the money over to non-future destroying means of people movement.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

  1. That vehicles yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. NOTE: A bicyclist is afforded the same rights as a pedestrian in a crosswalk when the bicyclist enters the crosswalk at walking speed.
  2. That vehicles yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. NOTE: A bicyclist is afforded the same rights as a pedestrian in a crosswalk when the bicyclist enters the crosswalk at walking speed.
  3. That vehicles yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. NOTE: A bicyclist is afforded the same rights as a pedestrian in a crosswalk when the bicyclist enters the crosswalk at walking speed. Any question?
0

Zed 3 years, 5 months ago

Sep, no one cares that you drive an F150 or where you squeeze it. At the end of the day it just leaves a bigger splat.

0

Zed 3 years, 5 months ago

This morning I did something and someone slighted me as well as the law. It was a complete double standard as I did not slight them and was following the law... I don't remember what they were doing, but the fact that it happened is clearly evidence that I am right and they are wrong. No, I did not call the police to report the illegal activity, but instead I am writing here so that you may support my view of the world.

0

Kevin Nerney 3 years, 5 months ago

Sid (Amy) your theory slightly off here in Colorado. Registration for vehicles is based on value of the automobile, despite how much damage they do to the road. In NY reggy is based on the weight of the vehicle so my truck would cost more then my Honda. If they start to charge bike owners can you image the ruckus if they want to charge more for a moots over a schwinn?

0

mmjPatient22 3 years, 5 months ago

Clear- Yes, I do have a question. When's the last time you saw a bicyclist enter a crosswalk at walking speed? Like I've said on other bicyclist comment boards, and this is absolutely NOT a threat, there are 2 kinds of 'right' when you're on the road; right and dead right. That was passed along to me from a former police officer who had seen way too many accidents caused by people who were absolutely in the 'right' and correct about their use of the road, but they were also the absolute victim and usually they were the one(s) that suffered the most injury.

Zed- Most of the complaining is done here in order to avoid becoming so livid about the truly petty offenses that don't really constitute bugging the fuzz about them. After all, who would want to live in a place where every single little infraction of the letter of the law was instantly reported and acted upon? I know I do at least a mile or two over the speed limit, on occasion, to be perfectly somewhat honest about it. And what a ridiculous waste of police resources that would be too.

0

Essam Welch 3 years, 5 months ago

Brian, I do not look down on anyone. My description of automobiles as multi thousand pound, resource wasting, polluting, and noisy is fact based and not derogatory. As we learn from the consequences of our behavior, we adjust our behavior accordingly. Automobiles, regardless of their power source, have many positive and negative effects on our world. I am fond of sport cars as an engineering marvel. I rely on ambulance service for my well being. I rely on cars to travel from region to region, though I'd rather be enjoying a cold beverage at the bar on a train from here to Denver. Many people rely on cars to assist them in transit do to disability. Many more choose to drive regularly because the ignore the consequences of their behavior or will not open their mind to better alternatives with fewer negative impacts. Brian, please consider another method of getting to and from our library. You may enjoy the results! My response to this article was do to the open discussion of requiring registration or licensing to pursue my daily activities. I will not submit to any authority, asking me to identify myself as I go about my free life. If I choose to drive, or purchase alcohol I will abide by the regulations that allow such potentially hazardous activity to occur with minimal negative impact on society. If i want to practice medicine or operate an airplane, i will seek a license to do so. The freedom to ride a bicycle is simple right that I am willing to fight for to protect.

0

Brian Kotowski 3 years, 5 months ago

Essam -

Fortunately, we are each free to choose our methods of conveyance. I don't begrudge your bicycle - or mine - at all (although, I might question your judgement if you were riding 129; seems like a great way to become a stain on the pavement). Presumably you agree that I'm equally entitled to select something you deride as "negative" and "[close] mind[ed]".

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

Colorado Law: A: State law requires:

  1. That pedestrians give vehicles the opportunity to stop before entering a crosswalk
  2. That vehicles yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. NOTE: A bicyclist is afforded the same rights as a pedestrian in a crosswalk when the bicyclist enters the crosswalk at walking speed.
0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

Paradigm: Roads are made for only petroleum using vehicles.

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, rather because its opponents will eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." Max Planck

The use of carbon based fuels and the complement O2 is destroying our ability to survive on this planet. Scientific fact.

If you have to drive that is the sad reality of our plight. Otherwise it is better to extend our time here on Earth by practicing other forms of alternative transportation. If you have children they will thank you.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

What is more arrogant then to use an energy process that destroys the ability to survive on this planet and feel that it is ok for that person to do so? As time progresses, we will have less available fuel for the essential needs of survival and at the same time we will have used up the protective quantity of UV absorbing air molecules,(O2). The temperatures will continue to rise, it will get hotter and hotter, and UV will progressively destroy the DNA of susceptible life forms turning this planet into a vast wasteland. All so that we can drive to the library. Arrogant, crazy, insensitive, insane! Wow. The irony!

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

It takes 10 calories of energy to produce 1 calorie of food using today's "modern" agricultural techniques.

Do you see the problem or are you blinded by bicycle-envy rage?

A 3 ppm decrease in the overall concentration of the oxygen in the atmosphere (0.0003%) is in turn equates to an equivalent of 3 x 109 tons of O2 (9.4 x 1013 mols ) every year that are consumed due to consumption of fossil fuels.

0

Essam Welch 3 years, 5 months ago

Brian, You presume correctly. I do not want to influence your behaviors with any other means than setting an example, or with polite discussion. We are fortunate to have our freedoms and must remain vigilant to protect them.
Be well.

0

JustSomeJoe 3 years, 5 months ago

I think most of the disgruntled bike posters/haters are generally disgruntled in life, and will gruntle away at whatever is in their line of vision. Most motor vehicle operators are aware of their responsibility to be in control of their motor vehicle at all time. As a driver I must always be prepared to stop for any obstacle that presents itself in the road. It doesn't matter if that obstacle is a pedestrian or a rock or a car turning left or right ahead of me or two road bikers riding two abreast legally. The riders must move back to single file if a car is coming up behind them. It might take a few seconds, try deep breaths.

If you come up on a bike rider or riders, the law (and common sense) requires you to pass safely and give the rider 3 feet clearance. Yes, this means you might have to slow down on a blind curve or when you can't see to pass safely or a car is coming the other way. It will be OK.

As a driver you encounter "inconveniences" to your busy life on the road; hazards, traffic laws and controls, other drivers, bikes, etc. please be prepared for them.

0

fartpark 3 years, 5 months ago

Well done yvb!!! I got a good chuckle from that. Share the road, Share the cost.

0

Zed 3 years, 5 months ago

How about the mere matter of money? I ride my bike to work(certain days) because it leaves cash in my pocket, saves wear on my car, wear on the roads and keeps cash from oil cartel and the corrupt governments that run it. Everyone whines about "big brother" taking their money but then you go out and take part in a energy system that is kept artificially cheap and run by a cartel! Our entire open market economic system is held hostage by a freaking cartel. And don't give me that drill baby drill, cause Palin ain't running for president this time around.

I will ride my bike and keep the change.

Seriously, why do you need to drive around in an empty F150 and how the hell does it not have enough power to slow down and then quickly pass a cyclist? If Essam can live with limited dependence on fossil fuels, he should be commended, not seen as arrogant. Driving your F150 all over town and complaining about bike riders becoming splats on the pavement would appear to be more arrogant.

And lastly, I was not truthful in an earlier post. No one slighted me this Sunday morning, I actually had a splendid morning and encountered some really friendly locals and tourists, which is why I live here. BUT I am sure if I had been paying more attention I could have caught some loud motorcycles or diesel trucks smoking up Lincoln, or that dog that poops in my front yard. Something needs to be done about all of them.

0

Kevin Nerney 3 years, 5 months ago

Kathy Nerney here....Pre-K Teacher taking her 4 & 5 year olds to the Botanical Gardens. We took the local bus to the Car Wash Exit, with no problems. Upon our return we needed to cross Hwy 40 to catch the bus. We waited until we rec'd the correct crossing signal and proceeded to cross (myself leading 15 children and my assistant following close behind, at the back of the pack) Halfway thru our crossing, my students were CUT OFF by 6 cyclists!!!!! (who could not wait for our "short legs" to make it accross safely) The shock doesn't stop there.....Later in the day, I placed a call to Yellow Line to P/U our class from the pool. Because of all the construction, the driver suggested that we meet him @ Wells Fargo Bank. I felt more comfortable crossing @ 3rd because there was a Safety Enforcement Officer directing traffic there. However, even with the light in our favor & his assistance, we were AGAIN CUT OFF by cyclists!!!! WHY....what is thier hurry???? Do they have children???? Both times....all I could say was..."You gotta be kidding me!!!" KATHY NERNEY

0

fartpark 3 years, 5 months ago

Zed, that dog that poops in your yard has to have a license per city rules.

0

jk 3 years, 5 months ago

Clearsky, the law states that cyclists are to dismount their bicycle before entering a crosswalk.

0

Brian Kotowski 3 years, 5 months ago

Zed

If you can show me how to get a load of firewood, pellets, or hay to my property absent my F150, I'm all ears. If the occasions that I drive my F150 "empty" (apparently, I don't count as passenger or cargo), offends your sensibilities, that's your problem.

My derision of Big Brother was provoked by someone's suggestion here that cyclists ought be subject to licensing & registration requirements and the attendant fees. Ridiculous. I've been riding a bike since the age of 6. Didn't need to be licensed then, don't need to be licensed now, and neither does anyone else. Americans are over-regulated as it is. As others have pointed out, cyclists are required to obey the rules of the road. As the friction between cyclists and motorists escalates, law enforcement will need to be as vigilant when it comes to stopping and citing cyclists as they are regarding motorists.

0

james Patterson 3 years, 5 months ago

Nothing against folks that ride bikes..... good for them. I can't ride one due to health reasons. I still don't understand why they get special lanes, trails without paying a fee to support those tax supported "specialty" items.
I do have to point out a little "glitch" in the environmental claims. There are very few communities in the US with as many very, very large homes. Talk about energy waste. A fair amount of these are only occupied a few weeks out of the year, yet they must consume energy every day. Then there's the recreational activity that makes SBS so popular.... , downhill skiing.... an extremely high energy consumption activity, esp when one considers getting to the slope, operating lifts, etc. I not being critical of these activities or lifestyles, it just makes it tough to accept the "I'm saving the environment" statement. For a large number of residents of SBS to claim the "saving the planet" theme because they ride a bike when they live in a house that's 4,000+ sq ft is a little tough to swallow.

0

mtroach 3 years, 5 months ago

Sep, part of the problem in this town is Law Enforcement's lack of enforcment of ANY of our traffic laws. Look at the recent driver the was seen going 100+mph down Rabbit Ears, found at the hospital, Where is he now? Not Jail. That's a problem.

I would attempt to justify the relaxed enforcement toward cyclists with the same rhetoric anti cyclists use to scare cyclists off the roads. If I'm on a bike and run a stop sign, I'm going to get hurt or killed, if I hit your automobile. If you are driving and run a stop sign, both automobile drivers can get hurt or killed. That would indicate a crime of driving an automobile through a stop sign is far more dangerous to others if you are in a car doing it rather than a bike, and should get a higher priority for law enforcement than a biker committing the same crime. It also shows the greater responsibility that driving a HUGE automobile has vs. Riding a bike. Automobiles are much, much more dangerous to others than a bike could ever be, and the requirements to operate them is reflected in our road use laws. To be sure any cyclist breaking the laws is punishable by our laws, and I have been pulled over by a CSO and ticketed on my CDL for running a red light on a bicycle. That ticket was points on my CDL license, and had i continued to ignore traffic laws on my bike i could have lost my job. But all in all, who would you rather see law enforcement concentrating their efforts, bikers that could hurt themselves, or automobile drivers that could kill others? I know seeing cyclists break laws is extremely frustrating, but fact is their actions are not as dangerous to others as a speeding psycho or distracted soccer mom.

As for the gas savings discussion, If Oil subsidizes were removed and the real cost of a oil product was passed onto consumers, gas prices would be much higher than they are now, and everyone would be looking for ways to free the USA from depending on Foreign oil to move around. till Washington pulls away from special interests and starts to protect it's citizens from corporate abuse of government subsidies, we will continue to be victims of this system.

YVB, I suggest you start up those horsemen rides, the roads of Routt county are great way to see this beautiful countryside and seeing others out enjoining them outside automobiles would be a pleasant change, and it would give you a nice perspective on the attitudes drivers have toward slower moving users of our great road system. I think you would be surprised by the friendly waves and courteous and patient drivers we have here in Routt county.

0

Brian Kotowski 3 years, 5 months ago

skypilot:

Good point. Along those lines:

Look over the descriptions of the following two homes, and see if you can tell which one belongs to a world-famous environmentalist:

HOUSE # 1: A 20-room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house all heated by gas. In ONE MONTH ALONE this mansion consumes more energy than the average American household in an ENTIRE YEAR. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400.00 per month. In natural gas alone (which last time we checked was a fossil fuel), this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not in a northern or Midwestern "snow belt," either. It's in the South.

HOUSE # 2: Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university, this house incorporates every "green" feature current home construction can provide. The house contains only 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on arid high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground. The water (usually 67 degrees F.) heats the house in winter and cools it in summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas, and it consumes 25% of the electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Flowers and shrubs native to the area blend the property into the surrounding rural landscape.

HOUSE # 1 (20 room energy guzzling mansion) is outside of Nashville,Tennessee. It is the abode of that renowned environmentalist (and filmmaker) Al Gore.

HOUSE # 2 (model eco-friendly house) is on a ranch near Crawford, Texas. Also known as "the Texas White House," it is the private residence of the former President of the United States, George W. Bush.

This is an email that began circulating while W was in office. According to Snopes, it's an accurate representation. I think I read a few years ago that Gore was sufficiently embarrased by it that he jumped into the carbon-offset jive. Money talks, and it sounds like bs.

0

sodacreekpizza 3 years, 5 months ago

Where does this view that cyclists don't pay taxes come from? The "special lanes and trails" in Steamboat do not come from motor vehicle taxes. They are paid for from the city budget which is funded by the same tax mechanisms that fund everything else. This means that the money that pays for them is the same money that plows the roads for motor vehicles.

We all contribute to it.

Interesting that after stating that cyclists don't contribute to the taxes that plow the roads and paint bike lanes , skypilot then in the same post postulates that they live in 4000 square foot homes. My guess is that the occupants of 4000 homes contribute more local taxes than the average resident.... ergo, they pay more than thier "share" for both plowing and bike lane painting.

We all contribute to it!

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

The difference, Soda, is that after "we all pay for it" automoblie operators, unlike cyclists, have to pony-up MORE cash for registration, insurance, licensing, gas tax...

Pretending not to see reality, however much the "in thing" that may be, does not actually CHANGE reality.

0

Brian Kotowski 3 years, 5 months ago

mtroach:

I don't really have a problem with local law enforcement bailing out of that recent chase. Law enforcement agencies world-wide have begun imposing restrictions on high speed pursuits, to mitigate the danger of uninvolved drivers & pedestrians being struck by a fleeing and possibly panicked driver. In the best of all possible worlds, the cops would have been able to execute a pit maneuver (although, I don't know how feasible it would have been at those speeds), or had the time to deploy spike strips. Absent those opportunities, I'm glad the officers chose to err on the side of caution. I shudder at the notion of the cops chasing that clown thru town with Mrs. Nearny trying to cross her kindergartners across Lincoln, for example.

As to which contingent law enforcement should focus on, common sense should apply. Motorists, for the most part, precisely because of the reasons you've delineated. But when an event like RTR multiplies the number of cyclists on the roads by a factor of hundreds or thousands, Johnny Law should be ready, willing and able to crack down on violators.

0

JustSomeJoe 3 years, 5 months ago

great study on roads built for solely for cars versus, bike/ped focused routes....

On average, the “road-only” projects evaluated created 7.8 jobs per million, while the “bicycling-only” projects provided 11.4 jobs per million. For example, a roadway-focused project with no bicycle or pedestrian components in Santa Cruz, Calif. generated 4.94 jobs per $1 million spent. In contrast, a bicycle-focused project in Baltimore, Md. produced 14.35 jobs per million.

http://www.peri.umass.edu/236/hash/64a34bab6a183a2fc06fdc212875a3ad/publication/467/

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

And if we took away their backhoes and gave them tea-spoons I bet we could "create" even more jobs!

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

True story, Pulled out of central park shopping center today about noon; just got over into the outside lane heading west; here comes a cyclist riding in the CENTER of the RIGHT lane going the WRONG WAY. I kid you not; center of the lane that I was rightfully occupying going the EXACT 180 degrees wrong way at full pedal. And if I had hit him it would be MY ass in jail! THATS what kicks me about bikers. And smiley, if you are reading this you know exactly what kind of car I drive because you know you almost had the front bumper for lunch.

0

sodacreekpizza 3 years, 5 months ago

Sled, wake up and smell the coffee... most of us that ride bikes also own cars and pay those taxes too. On the days I ride my bike to work, I do not use up any parking, I put less wear and tear on the road, have less impact on the air we breath.... and I get to lose some weight too! All in all a good deal... and guess what, the plates on my car stayed the same price.

"Pretending not to see the reality" is something that exists on both sides of most issues. This one is no exception.

YVB, I can assure you; I pay my way.

0

mmjPatient22 3 years, 5 months ago

sled-

You failed to observe that bicyclist's "I'm better than all of you, so stay outta my way!!" sign?!?!

Are you insane or something?

I'd turn myself in, if I were you. Ya know, before things get out of hand.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

JK Colorado Law: A: State law requires:

  1. That pedestrians give vehicles the opportunity to stop before entering a crosswalk
  2. That vehicles yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. NOTE: A bicyclist is afforded the same rights as a pedestrian in a crosswalk when the bicyclist enters the crosswalk at walking speed.

Nothing stated about dismounting.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Soda, If I register my jeep but then decide to drive my motorcycle to work IT TOO has to be registered... even though I paid taxes on the jeep already. I have to register EVERY vehicle I take on public streets.

Saying your car registration counts (or should count) for another vehicle is double-speak. I actually wish that logic could hold; I would tell Routt county that I don't need to pay property taxes on my other real estate because I already paid real estate taxes on my house; after all, I can only occupy one location at a time... I would tell them I shouldn't have to get a well permit for the other well on the other property because I already got one for the well at my house. I would take water out of the irrigation ditch at my other property and claim I was entitled to it based on the water rights I have at another location, etc...

I totally agree about the excercise, saving money, not taking up parking, wearing the roads, all of that is true. Where your inescapable reality smacks a lot of people is: using a vehicle on public roads which has not paid to be on them AND totally ignoring traffic laws. As long as a significant percentage of bikers conduct themselves like the guy did in front of me yesterday there is ZERO chance of changing a lot of opinions. Get cyclists to conduct themselves properly, legally and hearts and minds will change.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

Bicycle Envy That is what it is. You rage because you want to understand but are afraid. Fear makes you rage. Join the bicyclists and you will be free. Bicycle Envy.

0

Michael Loomis 3 years, 5 months ago

Carry that logic to all public road users, what about those pedestrians? Those people get a dedicated lane, painted crosswalks, special crossing lights that slow me down, for FREE, and yet they have no regard for the LAW. They cross in the middle of the block, against red lights ALL THE TIME, across 4 lanes of Federal Highway, and they pay NOTHING!! Runners, same thing, using our roads and paying NOTHING! Your special running race events use our roads for FREE, and SLOW ME DOWN!

And then there are all those people riding the FREE bus, paying NOTHING!! Doesn't that just drive you NUTS?? Little Johnny and Susie, riding their bikes to school, for FREE!! They are paying NOTHING! Those kids should be licensed, taxed and regulated. Pay your way or get off the road!

0

SMRFF 3 years, 5 months ago

Clearsky - I think you are well intentioned and I wish more of society would have your attitude towards our community and the environment. It's amazing how much we take for granted.

It's a bummer that this town does not have a more road biker friendly infrastructure. There are so many beautiful routes with a ton of potential, but unless someone ponies up millions of dollars for shoulders and other additions, they will simply remain beautiful routes with a ton of potential. Let's focus on the wide array of mountain biking tourism opportunities we have because that is more than feasible given the infrastructure already in place.

In a perfect world, bikers and drivers would both follow the rules of the road and go about their business courteously. Unfortunately, there are self-entitled jackasses on both sides of the aisle, so both sides will continue to bicker at one another. Bad drivers have been around for decades (very much still true in this town). Bad road bikers might be a fairly new concept in the mainstream due to the sport's recent surge, so maybe that's why there's so much vitriol? Just a guess.

0

SMRFF 3 years, 5 months ago

On a quick aside - I would still very much like to see the city put in place certification requirements for those wishing to wear tight spandex on their bicycles. Some people (I won't name names) really should be wearing bike SHORTS with the spandex built in. Not adhering to this truly presents a public safety hazard as many drivers and other bikers are forced to cover their eyes when they see riders ill-equipped to be wearing such tight attire. Why do you need to be so aerodynamic, anyhow? Where are you going that you need to get there so fast?

0

Glenn Little II 3 years, 5 months ago

Mountain bikers wear there underwear on the inside !!!

0

Troutguy 3 years, 5 months ago

Judging from some of the anti-bike posts on this site, one comes to the conclusion that vehicle drivers can do no wrong. They don't run stop signs or red lights. They obey all traffic laws and never, ever do something stupid like talk on a cellphone or text while driving. They don't ever cross over a double yellow line around sharp corners cuz they maight have to slow down to stay in their own lane. Never happens. Everyone on these posts drives impeccably. As someone who both drives and rides a bike, I can state with much certainty that there are morons on both sides. The biker who blew by me the other day while I was stopped on my bike, waiting my turn at 9th and Oak. Or just this morning when the women in the car who, while cell phone firmly imbedded in her head, ran thru the stop sign at 5th and Oak, barely slowing down at all to turn right. Idiots on both sides. I would love to see law enforcement deal with both bad drivers and bad bikers with a firm hand. SSPD, what do you say? And for all those who say bikers don't pay their way, especially those who both own a vehicle and a bike, I got one word for you. Pedestrians. They cross vehicle tax paid for roads all day and night. And they don't pay a dime. Darn freeloaders. We pay for the stipes that make up the crosswalks on the roads. We pay for the little flashing sign that tells them when they can cross the road. And sometimes we even pay for the sidewalk they are walking on. What ever shall we do about this?

0

Troutguy 3 years, 5 months ago

Just read your post after I posted mine, palmway. My thoughts exactly.

0

kathy foos 3 years, 5 months ago

I have only seen bikes obeying the same laws as traffic this year.I think the local bikers are being very careful to do so,and maybe the large out of town groups get frisky with the altitude and vacation and all.I am saying don't blame our many local cyclists for an out of town mistake. Cyclists are innocent until proven guilty.Think of all of the fuel these riders are saving.Maybe we should plan for a car lane and leave half of the road for bikes.Don't ever plan a new highway without large bike lanes(4 wide) that obey the rules of the road.Skate boarding is also a great way to get around.I think over the years the ride of the Rockies and other tours have proven a need for more hwy room for cyclists and pedestrians as well.

0

JustSomeJoe 3 years, 5 months ago

The plain truth is there is no "bike problem" as stated by the title of the article. There are bikers that don't follow the laws of the road, just as there are cars that don't follow the laws of the road. For anyone to try to quantify there are more people on bikes running stop signs than cars is absurd.

Sit above Blue Sage and Fish Creek Falls Road and watch the cars coming through treat the the stop sign like a yield sign. I can also see plenty of bikers rolling though a stop sign, whether it is 2 mph or 10 mph, both speeds are violations. Some cars and trucks buzz me with their side view mirrors on River Road and I also see road bikers riding 4 abreast.

At the end of the day all users of the road need to appreciate the various uses of the road. If you are in a vehicle and feel entitled to drive the speed limit or above without any possibility of slowing down for a road biker or slower car or tractor or pedestrian, you need to reset your expectations. Relax, drive defensively, take your foot of the gas and take a deep breath, you will get there. People riding their bikes on the road will always be there. Please deal with it with patience and follow the laws of the road. Everyone's family will be better off.

0

rhys jones 3 years, 5 months ago

Really, some people ain't gonna be happy no matter what. Why can't we all just -- get along?

I could've gotten my license back over 2 years ago, from a DUI I am still bitter about. I thought demonstrable lies in the officer's report would taint his testimony, discarding it as "fruits of the poisonous tree," but not in this County, not without a lawyer. I made several other key mistakes; a lawyer I am not. A breath test I took, after I initially refused, just disappeared. The cop who administered it said later he didn't even work that night -- not knowing what night that was. But I made a shade over $10K, so didn't qualify for a public defender, and I couldn't afford one (hindsight makes me question that decision). Anyway, the Routt County Railroad took me for a ride.

So, barring a change in demographics, the state can just keep their stupid license. My two feet and the bus get me around just fine, everywhere I want to go. Well, I do miss the occasional Steamboat Lake or Seedhouse excursion, but I will not pedal my bike up 129 -- far too dangerous.

Speaking o the bike -- it just got out of the shop yesterday, and I put it back on the trail, first time since AZ, and WHAT FUN!! FREEDOM!! I can go anywhere I want, or have the legs to get. Howelsen is fun to pedal around, the fields and trails. Bumped into a friend, waiting on others, rode to pick up a 12-pack for him, and at 7th Street, I dismounted and walked the bike across the street with the peds, then down the sidewalk to Cellar Liquors. Nothing tweaks my hide like people riding the downtown sidewalks.

Don't hang us all, for the errors of a few. I stay off the roads as much as possible, and stay as far to the right as possible when caught there. I give all vehicles the right-of-way and assume nothing, knowing just how flesh fares in a conflict of interest with metal. I've gone splat before, albeit on a motorcycle. Wasn't for a helmet, I wouldn't be boring you now.

I may not go all the places I used to, but I plan my trips more efficiently. I don't buy gas, insurance, tires, blah blah. And the same hills are easier now, than they were 24 years ago, when I bought this bike new. 'Course, I was driving more then; maybe the bike's got something going for it.

0

JustSomeJoe 3 years, 5 months ago

yeah YVB, the cops should be policing the bikes on the sidewalk, not the nut job yelling out his car window while he's DRIVING by. I'm sure you are in complete control of your vehicle while scouting the sidewalks for bike scofflaws to yell at.

0

rhys jones 3 years, 5 months ago

I've mentioned before, how I have almost mixed it up, with entire gangs of teenagers, biking and skateboarding on the sidewalks. A little law enforcement here would be nice, no doubt, those kids threaten everybody.

When I'm cranking the pedals, I find the alleys, Yampa, and the bike trail all superior to Lincoln, where the crazies congregate. I even avoid 40 as much as possible -- some redneck threw a beer bottle at my head, once, approaching from behind and from his pickup, I realized when it missed and broke on the pavement in front of me. That was before we had our bike trail, and thank God for that trail!! You can see what some of these drivers think of us.

0

JustSomeJoe 3 years, 5 months ago

Right YVB, I guess you are less of a nut job by yelling while you are looking straight ahead.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

YVB has a Bad Case of Biker Envy! Join the bikers! And you will be Free! You make me laugh you nut jobs!

0

mavis 3 years, 5 months ago

I know lots of bikers, respect a ton of them and get frustrated by LOTS of them. River road, and county road 14 have turned into bike paths. There are certain times of the day they are OUT of CONTROL.
Sled is right... the rest of us pay to license EVERYTHING from personal use to farm and ranch use yet bikes are FREE and have a TREMENDOUS amount of paths and up keep from plowing to maintainence. They too should have to PAY to PLAY and keep up with all of the maintance.

0

bandmama 3 years, 5 months ago

Classic. Was on Lincoln today at lunch. East on Lincoln. Right hand lane. I had the green light..... NOT a "bike" But THE Motorcycle Bike Cop blew through HIS red light, turning right onto Lincoln (at 9TH)... cause it seems he had room (the light had JUST changed) and could. And we wonder why "cyclers" disregard the safety rules????... Just saying..enforcement and EXAMPLE??? LOL! Thank goodness the guy in front of me wans't in a "T'ang" last weekend. Again...LOL!!!

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

YVB, Ego drives your thoughts about yourself. Join the bikers and you will free your self. Come on, you know you want to wear that spandex and put out close to that 1/2 horsepower while traveling at 25 mph in the heat of traffic. All those poor suckers in cars wishing they were free from the constraints of cold hard metal and glass. Bike envy is the only explanation for all this anger out there. Peace. PS sounds like you need to get more education than just high school.

0

bhad 3 years, 5 months ago

It's not bike envy. I ride Mtn bikes on mountain trail 3 to 4 times a week, and it still pisses me off to see bikers riding tree wide one Oak St in the middle of the road when there is a bike lane. if they were doing the speed limit thats one thing but they are going 5mph in the middle of the road, and they gave me a dirty look for riding their ass until they moved to the bike lane.

0

Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 5 months ago

Bandmama, it was a four-wheeled cop that scared the living daylights out of me. I was working a late night Saturday at a local bar. Step out for a breather with a large plastic cup in hand.
I'm walking across Sixth, one of Steamboat's finest roars across Lincoln.
I was in the crosswalk and had to jump back.
So I jammed my ice-water drink under his nose and he sez "thank you." I maintained some semblance of composure 'cause I had to get back to work.

Like that didn't off me pi$$.

0

bandmama 3 years, 5 months ago

Jeff, agreed. While I can honestly say that any dealings I have had with anyone from any law enforcement agency since i moved here many years ag has been a good one. I do however find fault with some of thier driving habits. Lead by example and PLEASE dont go through red lights on Lincoln. It really doesn't bode well for the public image! Really, every single officer that I have ever had to deal with if it be through work or a simple traffic stop, (ok THREE in almost ten years all oddly enough having to do with some minor complaint over how my back plate was A-hanging...another story another time...) they have all been couteous, polite and very professional. Even the night when my old doggie escaped OFF LEASH and the most positive, supportive deputy who found him wandering and wondering as 14+ yr old dogs will do on Hwy 40, Who not only called me, but brought the old dog home in his car and helped to carry him into the house and spent a good ten minutes calming the dog down, and me. Assured me that it was NOT A PROBLEM. And while he could of given me a ticket, could of been a wienie. He wasn't.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

Some people need to get more than a third grade education.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes Clearsky. Some people (in fact most) need more than a third grade education. Others are obviously educated (or endoctrinated) far beyond their intelligence.

Clearsky, You use fossil fuel. We're not talking about "others" but YOU. You consume food that takes calories to produce. You do. Forget about all s other people what did YOU eat today? Where did YOUR food come from? You use "future destroying" vehicles. You. Not "others who need to get an education". YOU.

"My daughter had an heiress in her elementary school class. The heiress said that every evening at ten o'clock she went to the small refridgerator in her room and took out her usual snack: yogurt dripped with honey. My daughter asked, "who puts it in there?" The heiress paused and then said "... I don't know." The great fault of my generation (especially people like clearsky) is not ingratitude but incomprehension. SOMEONE must drill the oil for HIS his car, the electricity for HIS house must be generated somehow, the food in HIS kitchen must be grown on some land somewhere. But all clearsky can do is tell us "third-graders" how WE are destroying HIS world.

0

mtroach 3 years, 5 months ago

isn't it odd that the comment counter grows without any new comments.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

The internet bullies try to use their own style of logic to justify their view that it is ok to behave the way they do- trying to convince others that riding bicycles is bad and full of anarchy for the well behaved motor vehicle drivers. The fact is WE are destroying our ability to survive on this planet and it is not ok regardless. Riding a bicycle is the best choice. Following the laws is the best choice. Bicycles are allowed by COLORADO law to use pedestrian crossings while mounted. Bicycles are allowed on the road. If a bicycle is within the speed limit then why are you passing on a double line? Turn the focus on your own contribution to what is good and judge not the people that care about our world.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

YVB, You are the definition of "unsophisticated" yet we can add "Uneducated" as well.

0

Clearsky 3 years, 5 months ago

YVB, You have a picture of some yahoo shooting a gun into the air!? WTH? How much more unsophisticated can anyone get?

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

mtroach, I noticed that, too. I think it goes up when people make comments, then the Pilot deems them politically incorrect or whatever and deletes them, but the counter doesn't reflect that. Makes me sooooo curious about what was said :-)

0

rhys jones 3 years, 5 months ago

I've noticed a similar phenomenon with my Google Analytics for my website. Maybe it'll say I got visits from 33 states in the last month, lists then 10 at a time, for my further review. So Alabama may be on Page 2, then it appears again on Page 3 -- and there are still only 33 states. What happened to that other state? Maybe the Pilot is double-dipping, like Google.

I've seen my comments disappear before, relatively harmless ones, compared to some of my trash which was allowed to remain. I don't know the rhyme or reason.

I tried to stay mostly out of this one, somehow agreeing with everybody. But I commented in another forum late last night, comments I hope are allowed to remain. In there I made a mistake; I said "Old Bill" when I meant "Wild Bill." It was late; I was tired. That had absolutely nothing to do with this forum, as I don't believe Wild Bill ever rode a bike. If he did, the wagon drivers were probably complaining.

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

Old/Wild Rhys ... I saw that post. It was really late ... or early. I had a good laugh picturing the Earp brothers and Doc Holliday , sitting around a poker table with a bottle of whiskey, smoking a joint, trying to remember what they were supposed to do that day. "Oh, yeah, that's right ... go disarm the Clantons and McLaurys." But, of course, Ike and Billy were stinking drunk from the night before and we all know how that turned out. Anyway, I think you might be a wee bit sleep deprived. Go for a nice ecologically correct bike ride, obeying all rules and regulations, of course. When you get home, have a nice glass of legal wine and a federally illegal doobie, shut down the computer and get a good night's sleep.

Clearsky ... "Colorado Statute 42-4-1412, (10) (b) A person shall not ride a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or pathway or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk where such use of bicycles is prohibited by official traffic control devices or local ordinances. A person riding a bicycle shall dismount before entering any crosswalk where required by official traffic control devices or local ordinances." I was told by a local cop that SBS ordinances require you to dismount when using the crosswalk. That was several years ago, but if the law has changed, I sure couldn't find anything online. I agree with you that "following the laws is the best choice", but I'm not convinced many people know what they are in Steamboat. Seems like a lot of cyclists kind of pick and choose which laws they want to apply to them. The Colorado Statue can be superceded by local ordinances. Anybody know where to find them?

0

Requires free registration

Posting comments requires a free account and verification.