Every seat in the The Strings Music Pavilion was filled Thursday evening as people came out to hear longtime journalist and foreign policy analyst, Robin Wright speak on the changing Arab world in the first of five events in the Seminars at Steamboat public policy series. Other speakers in this year’s Seminars will include Seymour Hersh on Aug. 4, Tamar Jacoby Aug. 11, Zalmay Khalizad Aug. 15 and David Walker Aug. 25.

Photo by John F. Russell

Every seat in the The Strings Music Pavilion was filled Thursday evening as people came out to hear longtime journalist and foreign policy analyst, Robin Wright speak on the changing Arab world in the first of five events in the Seminars at Steamboat public policy series. Other speakers in this year’s Seminars will include Seymour Hersh on Aug. 4, Tamar Jacoby Aug. 11, Zalmay Khalizad Aug. 15 and David Walker Aug. 25.

Lecture on Middle East kicks off Seminars at Steamboat

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— A new generation is emerging in the Middle East that has sparked change throughout the entire Islamic world, international journalist, author and foreign policy analyst Robin Wright told a packed audience during the first free Seminars at Steamboat lecture series of the summer Thursday.

Wright, who said her mother started acting at Steamboat’s Perry-Mansfield Performing Arts School and Camp in the 1930s, presented “Rock the Casbah: Rage and Rebellion Across the Islamic World” to a crowd of about 560 people at Strings Music Pavilion. The title of the seminar is the same as the book Wright published this month.

A youth movement is responsible for the recent uprisings that are eliminating autocracies and extremists and promoting democracy in some of the 22 Arab countries of the Middle East, Wright said.

She said a confluence of changes led to the uprisings, including increased education and higher literacy rates among Arab men and women, two-thirds of the 300 million Arab people being younger than 30, access to communication tools such as satellite TV and the internet, and the ability to circumvent government censorship.

Arab youths effectively used peaceful civil disobedience and social media, rap and hip-hop music, comedy, films, plays and even comic books to spread messages, Wright said.

“We can never underestimate people power these days,” she said. “This is really one of the most inspiring times of my life, and I’ve witnessed change all over the world.”

Wright kicked off the ninth season for Seminars at Steamboat — and the first with five lectures. Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh will deliver “A Foreign Policy Report from Washington: Are Obama’s Policies Working?” on Aug. 4.

Seminars co-founder and board member Jane Stein said Wright initially was scheduled to discuss Iran but recent developments changed the topic at the last minute.

“I thought it was just an amazing coverage of the issues,” Stein said. “We can read about things in newspapers. We can see photos in the newspaper. But to hear her stories has a bigger impact on people.”

She said it was a good way to start the season.

Steamboat residents Scott and Gwen Sanwick have attended Seminars at Steamboat lectures in past years. The couple said they were impressed with Wright’s knowledge and appreciated her approach.

“I’m pretty fascinated by that region of the world. We’ve traveled over there some,” Gwen Sanwick said. “Rather than (Wright’s presentation) being political views, it was personal insights about what’s going on over there.”

Wright called the next decade a “time of unprecedented transformation” for the people of the Middle East and the U.S., but the transition to democracy likely would have to take place without American resources because of the country’s economic challenges.

She added that transitions don’t take place quickly.

“The sad truth is change takes a long time, but my bottom-line message is this is the beginning of the beginning,” Wright said. “But it is a beginning, and that’s what we need to realize.”

To reach Jack Weinstein, call 970-871-4203 or email jweinstein@SteamboatToday.com

Comments

Essam Welch 3 years, 5 months ago

I suggest the removal of the above comment for blatant racism. To proclaim that any way of thought, idea, or philosophy is either "in their blood" (or not) about any group exposes intolerance and ignorance of the speaker. Such ignorant commentary does not contribute to a useful discourse.

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seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Update: Muslim terrorists kill many Norwegians in a bombing and shooting attack near Oslo.

My problem isn't with a specific race of people, Arabs, it is with a specific following, Islamists, those that wish for a global Caliphate and for Sharia to be the law of the land.

You want to take away my free speech rights for that? If so, I can guess what belief system you are living under.

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trump_suit 3 years, 5 months ago

As vile and disturbing as they may be, Seeuski is entitled to his/her opinions and the freedom to post them far and wide.

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seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Well there is 1 point of agreement between trump and seeuski, we have a Constitutional right to speak as long as we are not threatening to harm.

On this articles point though trump, you and I have disagreed in the past and I guess it wouldn't be any different now.

Oh and another update from the Oslo terrorist attacks: The perpetrators are described as Norwegian looking and there is a claim of responsibility from Muslim groups. So is it race or Nationality? You make the call. I say it is the Caliphate Jihad movement and it knows no race.

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seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Here is a video from Oslo from a recent protest by the peaceful Muslims. And I also forgot to ask if Wright mentioned what happened to Lara Logan of CBS News during the "peaceful Arab Spring" protests in Harrir Square in Egypt.

Lovely people.

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Essam Welch 3 years, 5 months ago

Only the reference to "blood" spurred my reaction. You are perfectly entitled to your free speech. I do not care to discuss with anyone here in depth, about the many groups of people, organizations, or religions that have traditionally and culturally ingrained behaviors. Our "blood" has no relationship to these affiliations. To reference "blood" is as ignorant as a reference to skin color. I stand by my response.

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seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Well you are coming out of left field or from another planet because the last time I cut myself I realized that I had blood, and in my blood I am sure I don't want to live under Sharia law and I don't want to allow people to get away with sugar coating what is really going on in the ME and in Europe, or even the USA as it relates to Islam. Jihad has been declared and Sharia has been called for under a global Caliphate.

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Essam Welch 3 years, 5 months ago

From the Steamboat Pilot user agreement: "You agree to not: upload, post, distribute, e-mail or otherwise publish or make available on WorldWest Limited Liability Company web sites any libelous, defamatory, obscene, harmful, vulgar, threatening, tortious, harassing, abusive, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially or ethnically objectionable, or otherwise illegal material."

Your reference to "blood" in relation to the acceptance of democracy is clearly racially based and could be reasonably described as objectionable. Free speech does not include the right to proclaim on this public forum such bigotry. You agreed to the user terms and therefore, in my opinion, have crossed a line with your ignorant statement. It would be a shame for our community's public forum to provide a platform for objectionably race based commentary. I feel responsible to voice my objection in order to counter the damage that such speech could cause to the perception of our community. We do not need to be labeled Racist and Ignorant Town USA...

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Cooke 3 years, 5 months ago

See -- did you happen to notice that the profile of the killer in Oslo is a fundamentalist Christian with problems with Norway's multiculturalism? Maybe you and fox news were too busy pushing your hateful agendas to worry about the facts. I would say, based on your comments, it's safe to assume that you and Oslo killer shared a lot of the same views on Islam. I wonder if you are proud of that?

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JustSomeJoe 3 years, 5 months ago

Once again Seeyouski proves ignorance is bliss. The Oslo bomber/shooter is a far right wing nationalist, anti-muslim. Care to retract Seeyouski or apologize? Or go with your usual Muslim Brotherhood rant?

Luckily See is part of the very vocal minority and not representative of most folks in this town. He just runs his mouth more than most so you hear it more. Doesn't make it so.

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cheesehead 3 years, 5 months ago

I wonder if Miss Wright also mentioned how many millions of dollars our past administrations gave the taliban for our "war on drugs".

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thalgard 3 years, 5 months ago

Seu Suk eeee...you have now become oh so much like those nazis whom you claim to deplore..good job, I hope you like the uniform.

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stillinsteamboat 3 years, 5 months ago

It blows my mind that you can spew racial hatred on this blog and it isn't removed. I wouldn't take my history lessons from Glenn Beck if I were you Seeuski.

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seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

The usual suspects are all here in line, love you guys. The suspect in the Oslo shooting has a 5 day old facebook account and a twitter account with 1 tweet that is also recent. Be careful of the smoke screen you are apparently falling for. You who so defend the Muslims that have declared Jihad on all Jews and Infidels and who have been, and still are, acting on that proclamation can kiss it where the sun don't shine. I don't prescribe to this pansy type of political correctness that Essam is using in her desired meaning of my previous post. I can tell by her complaint that she most likely has reason to defend Islam. Thalgard can use the terms and run afoul of the rules on this forum because she is a left winger and that sits just fine here. The Muslim Jihadists who claimed responsibility for the bombing last night still hold the top of the charts in my book, much like the Yousef cell who were involved with McVeigh and Nichols in OK city, this may be an exact replica of that compact between those that were involved in that terrorist attack and those that may have produced the Oslo attack, Nazi's and Islamists. Sorry to those who like the sand in which they bury their heads.

Here, for you crazies, FOX NEWS FOX NEWS, Glenn Beck Glenn Beck, wooo hooo! That way you can save some key strokes.

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heboprotagonist 3 years, 5 months ago

How is it that such hatred and racist crap is allowed to remain in these "comments" section for so long? The Pilot's continued bias is really starting to show. I wish that I had the money to start a real paper in this town, clearly the objectivity one should expect from a newspaper is lost on the staff of the Pilot. (I wonder how long before this post is deleted....)

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Dan Hill 3 years, 5 months ago

seeuski clearly thrives on the reaction he or she gets. I suggest that everyone ignore his/her paranoid, intolerant, ignorant rantings. That sort of talk is cheap when you hide behind an anonymous profile.

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addlip2U 3 years, 4 months ago

It is up to you to educate yourself and seek the true and facts. I found the discussion from all of your comments fascinating. No need to delete anyone. Thank you for the lively discussion :)

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seeuski 3 years, 4 months ago

Help for the needy: "After fall of Mubarak, group announces intent to form Nazi party" http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/451086

"Mohamed Ghanem, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calls Egypt to stop pumping gas to Israel and prepare the Egyptian army for a war with it’s eastern neighbor." http://www.israellycool.com/2011/01/31/breaking-news-egypts-muslim-brotherhood-calls-for-war-against-israel/ http://www.forexcrunch.com/muslim-brotherhood-wants-war-with-israel/ http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/muslim-brotherhood-leader-prepare-for-war-with-israel.html

It's sure says alot when a google search brings up zero hits from the MSM on this subject, that may be why I get called all forms of vile names for bringing out the truth about the "Arab Spring" movement, it is NOT a peaceful democratic movement and I have the right to that opinion based on the hate and threats and actions of the Jihadists who want to kill me, you and all the Jews.

@heboprotagonist YES this is racist, the truth about the Islamic Jihad is racist, they hate us because it is in their holy book to do so. Pay attention to what is going on around the world and in many areas here, you will eventually have no choice but to accept reality, sooner than later I fear. You can continue to hate me but I guarantee I am not your enemy, they are.

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thalgard 3 years, 4 months ago

suk eeee...you and your twisted hateful way of seeing the world as one grand conspiracy are my enemy, and I will fight your brand of hate and intolerance forever!

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bandmama 3 years, 4 months ago

seeiski- just a gentle probe towards intelligent debate... Christopher Hitchens... Jon Stewart Rachel Madow Einstein.....Please for the love of all that is NOT holy, expand your thought process and just START with these people. I respecfully appreciate your opinion, but if you never bother to check out "the other darker side of politics and logic" your comments, links and diatribes only profess your lack of intelligent thought. In the words of a great still taught ...poet...(not exact, but words to respect) keep your friends close, but keep a careful eye on the other guy. Complete disregard to any other opinion is nothing more than stupidity. And while I really mean no real disrespect you need to stop listening to FOX. While entertaining, it is not the best source of information.

And to anyone to beat anyone for postings without a name, go to where ever you think is the worst. I choose to to not put my name out on the table because I find the outlet entertaining. Really. I do. HAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

addlip2U- agree.

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Essam Welch 3 years, 4 months ago

Thank you Steamboat Pilot for clearing this forum of objectionable race based commentary.

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seeuski 3 years, 4 months ago

You people have won and you have succeeded in suppressing free speech. I leave you to yourselves. Enjoy the koolaid.

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Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 4 months ago

My mom always said, "It's not WHAT you say, it's the WAY that you say it." Her children were taught to be critical thinkers, but were also taught the social skills to discuss differences of opinion without being overbearing, judgmental, sarcastic and "in your face". I don't always succeed in following her advice, but I do know that I will never persuade anyone to agree with me, or even understand my point of view, by being insulting and terminally dogmatic. It sounds like seeuski is going to take his toys and go home. And it's probably just as well. Some people will bite off their nose just to spite their face.

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Marie Matta 3 years, 4 months ago

Thank you, Essam, for challenging seeuski's comments, and it's reassuring to see that the majority of subsequent posts also recognise the ignorance and hate in seeuski's outbursts.

I wasn't planning to get involved in this discussion, as much of what I wanted to say has already been said eloquently, however I feel compelled to ask seeuski the following questions:

seeuski,

1) If you feel so strongly about Islam and the Middle East, why did you NOT attend Robin Wright's seminar? 2) Given that you did not attend, what makes you think you are qualified to comment on her presentation? 3) What is your personal experience of Islam and the Middle East? Do you know any Muslims personally? Have you ever been to or lived in a country with a Muslim majority? Or are you just repeating second hand information from organisations that have a particular anti-Islamic agenda? I attended Robin Wright's seminar, I come from a Middle Eastern country and I have lived alongside Muslims. I respect your right to your own views on Islam and the Middle East, but I would just like to say that based on my personal experience, I disagree with you completely.

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MrTaiChi 3 years, 4 months ago

Trying to be civil:

I don't oppose the practice of Islam as a religion. I oppose the practice of Islam as a political movement. Unlike other present world major religions, Islam is both. Islam is not a race.

It is a chasm almost too difficult for Americans to bridge. Every fibre of our being and everything we hold dear is challenged by the thought whether intolerance of jihad is intolerance of Islam, and therefore, bigotry. We project our history of tolerance and good will and successful acculturation and need to believe that the same pattern will follow with Islamic cultures. Our historical perspective causes us to fear the consequences of unleashing secterian tribalism, and we should fear release of that evil.

Islam is a successionist religion. It does not recognize the validity of other faiths. There are no churches in Saudi Arabia. Islam's holy scriptures are unequivocal, polytheists are to be killed and people of the book who refuse to convert are to be subjugated and made to pay the jizya, a tax for the priviledge of livinig under sharia law. That in the time of militant Islam, all Hindus and Buddhists were not killed in Muslim controlled areas of India was just because there were too many of them. In the modern world, where the frontiers of Islam meet other faiths there is violence. The Coptic Christians are having a tough time in Egypt now. Their churches are being firebombed and not permitted to be rebuilt. Their wives and daughters are being kidnapped and forced to marry and convert to Islam, and there is no redress in the courts there.

If one accuses an Islamic critic of using out of context quotations of muslim holy scriptures to support bigotry, one has to ask who better understands the tenets of their faith, the good and gentle people of Steamboat Springs or the murderers who use those same quotes from the Koran to justify their acts. Orthodox Islam is literal Islam. It's political objective to govern the world is terrifying. I don't watch FOX news or listen to Glenn Beck. I read books, mostly history books.

You can conveniently dismiss my views as hate. I dismiss your refusal to look a threat in the face as illiberal. Yes liberal in the traditional sense that no issue should become so sacrosanct that we can't discuss it. Those who won't are genuinely closed-minded.

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MrTaiChi 3 years, 4 months ago

I'm truly sorry for the spelling errors. "privilege" and "sectarian". I haven't figured out how to spell check this text. I have a genetic predisposition to these mistakes, (you should see Mom's letters), and the time it took me to edit this posting had me reading it so many times that the eyes just passed over the mistakes while the brain was working on content. I know well how much credibility is lost in poor grammar and spelling, so you can't be harsher on me than I am myself.

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Cooke 3 years, 4 months ago

Tai -- You don't support Islam as a political movement. Totally agree. However, do you support Christianity as a political movement? Certainly you would not deny the far right's Christian political agenda? As for extremists using their own interpretations of the religious texts, certainly you would not deny that that happens within Christianity as well!

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rhys jones 3 years, 4 months ago

Faith is in the heart, not a book. Spirituality can happen anywhere, whereas religion requires a building. And believers, hopefully with money to support the cause and fight the infidels. I believe religion killed more people than it ever saved.

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MrTaiChi 3 years, 4 months ago

Cooke,

Christianity had its shameful period. It is hard to argue that Jesuits weren't a political as well as religious movement, and the Pope, Leo XIII as late as the 1880s issued a bull that the separation of church and state was a violation of God's ordinances. I don't deny reality. I also believe that as a civilization we've evolved beyond that. My personal values are conflicted on social Christianity. I support a woman's right to choose. I oppose state sponsored school prayer. I am conservative on most other matters. I would, however, rather have lived next to Jerry Falwell than the Ayatollah Khomeini. If you had the same choice, wouldn't you? Also, do you ever use the expression, 'the religious left?" Other than the Catholic Church, ultra orthodox Jews and fundamental Protestants, aren't almost all of the main line religions 'progressive' or trending that way? Don't they use their pulpits to promote the gospel of love and downplay judgmental concepts like, sin?

The suggestion of your post that Baptists are no different than Shiites is flawed because Judaism and Christianity have no sacred imperative in the writings of their faiths to complel submission and to bring the world under the control of the Umah.

Next time you have a chat with a moderate Muslim, ask him these questions: Does your faith allow a practioner to convert to Christianity without worldly punishment? Do you believe that passages of the Koran the Hadith and the other Muslim holy scriptures that are inconsistent with the US Constitution and the UN Declaration of Human Rights must be ignored by an American Muslim? Do you agree that the prophet led a perfect life and that his marriage to a six year old girl and consumation of the marriage when she was nine was proper? Stand back and watchd the squirming and evaisiveness.

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Cooke 3 years, 4 months ago

Tai, While I agree with much of what you say, I think that you give Christianity too much credit by saying its violence and intolerance are in its past. Friday is a perfect example of that.

This "religious left" you refer to are not the ones trying to hijack a national agenda, interfere in people's personal lives (especially people who do not share their value set), and define what is right and wrong. I agree that most of the protestant faiths seem to be trending that way, and I welcome that. However, those folks are not the ones you need to worry about.

I know quite a few people of deep Islamic faith, and none of them seem to think that they need to force conversions, denounce the Constitution, or destroy the UN; but I also think they are the "religious left".

I leave with this: ultra religious in ANY religion have proven to be dangerous to society. Just because Bachman hasn't claimed jihad doesn't mean she isn't dangerous.

And yes, definitely would choose Falwell over Komeni, although not sure about Bachman or Komeni...

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thalgard 3 years, 4 months ago

Tai...the Catholic church(aside from its history of baby diddling) has for hundreds of years carried out an active campaign against Jews...from spreading lies such as "blood Libel" to the kidnapping of Jewish orphans after WW2, the Papacy has attempted to kill, subjugate, convert and humiliate the Jewish people. Right now, in Europe, many families have items left over from the looted property of Jews (Judenrein) left over from when they were annihilated during the Shoa.(Holocaust). Christians still missionize all over the world, suppressing native religions throughout the developing world. My point is is that Christendoms hands are hardly clean, so to single out Islam as some great evil is to ignore two thousand years of violence perpetrated by so called Christians on those who do not share their religious views. I feel that any mix of religion and state can lead to the subjugation of other beliefs, so separation of church and state is critical for a pluralistic society. Intolerance and bigotry will never lead us down the road to peace and prosperity, people like seu suk ee will hopefully forever be in the minority in a healthy culture...Peace

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Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 4 months ago

And THAT'S how it's done! Thank you, MrTaiChi, Cooke, thalgard, et al for bringing civility and tolerance back into this forum.

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trump_suit 3 years, 4 months ago

Well spoken Tai Chi..... A serious discussion of an issue that tries to uncover the real area of conflict. Religious conflict has been the source for most of the wars throughout history. Our modern day conflicts are no different.

One of our founding principles is "Freedom of Religion" That does not mean that you can force your beliefs on others, but it does mean that each and every one of us have the right to believe as you choose.

Extreme beliefs will lead to extreme behavior and in life, politics or religion, extreme beliefs should be avoided,

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MrTaiChi 3 years, 4 months ago

For about 1,400 years the West has had no idea of how to deal with Islam. I don't have the answers. I do think it legitimate for the West to defend its culture when Islam spills over into secular matters. Let us be fair and neutral, but clear that parallel laws will not be tolerated.

I assume that I am charged to explain how a Christian could murder in cold blood. As I said about McVeigh, if he was motivated by his faith, he was a damned poor Christian. This cold blooded killer cut down people like it was a video game. Words fail. In a democratic system he had the opportunity to advance his ideas within the framework of that system to accomplish his political beliefs, like the religious right and left do in our country. It goes beyond crime. He'll find no support in the faith of his upbringing for what he did. The nineteen on 9/11 however.... Some on this site rushed to judgment that the Congresswoman's shooter was a right wing extremist, when events unfolded to show him to be psychotic.

Yeah, religious zealots scare the hell out of me too. My parting words urge you to keep an open mind and to question those who like the cop tells us, "Move along, nothing to see here." The media tell us that Islam is a religion of peace, that we have nothing to fear from mainstream Muslims, when everyday world events contradict those condescending assurances. What was the most popular male name in the Umah for male babies after 9/11, 'Osama'. Really, every murdering jihadi can't be misinterpreting Islam. Where is the public outrage of American Muslims that the jihadi misinterpreters make the faith look so bad? I think your friends know that Orthodox Islam justifies these killings but are embarrassed to admit it to you. If shame and decency don't hold them back, then they can find comfort in the words of the prophet, "War is deceit."

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Cooke 3 years, 4 months ago

Well said Tai.

I would add that the west has the right to defend itself also when Christianity and Judaism spill into the secular. While the far right is not as radical as Sharia law, it is still pushing a religious agenda on a secular nation. As for my friends feeling ashamed, it certainly gives me some talking points with them.

As far as every murdering jihadi misinterpreting Islam, it seems perfectly possible to me that this indeed is the case. After all, look at what the Catholic Church did to the Protestants during the Reformation. That was all over supposed misinterpretations. Isn't it possible that jihadis will one day be viewed in the same light as the inquisitors -- monsters who were a product of their environment and times?

One question: You made a reference to the prophet marrying a 9 year old. I thought the prophet married a much older woman than he; someone he worked for before he became a prophet. I'm not looking for you to retell the story, maybe just point me in the right direction. Gracias.

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MrTaiChi 3 years, 4 months ago

@ Cooke,

I appreciate your civility, a pattern repeated on these pages in your posts. You are as unashamedly liberal as I am conservative, just a couple of Americans doing what the founders intended, Jefferson and Hamilton without the mental horsepower.

I don't know how many wives Mohammed had, but he indisputably had two. He married a rich widow a bit older than himself and the previously mentioned Aisha, a child. Beware of discussing this with your Muslim friends, it is a subject that they are usually the most touchy about.

Your reference to the Inquisition is topical. My understanding is that the Dominican Order of the Catholic Church carried it out to ferret out apostates after the Moors were expelled from Iberia. It was horrific. That said, remember that early Christians were torn apart by starved beasts in Roman spectacles rather than renounce their faith. Jews submitted to the rack and other tortures in Spain rather than renounce their faith. Muslims, however have two gifts from the prophet and the schools of the faith. 'Taqiyya' allows them to dissemble and lie about their faith to protect themselves. 'Taysir' tells them that it is allowed to take the easy path in foreign cultures, that is to fit in, until the number of Islam's adherents enable a change of culture to Islamic norms and ultimately, sharia.

I'm not Catholic, not really sure what I am now. You overlooked the Thirty-Years war when Christian atrocities were common on both sides. Most scholars agree that Christianity worked out its doctrinal sharp edges in the Reformation and learned from the excesses of piety that killing each other is not God's plan for us. Islam has not had a reformation, but badly needs it. It is not likely because the four schools of Islamic authority pretty much agree that the understanding of the Koran, the Hadiths and the Suras, Islam's holy books, was complete in the 1300s. New theories are heresy; heresy is apostacy, and apostacy is to be punished by death.

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the_Lizard 3 years, 4 months ago

Just as an aside, but in defense of Christianity, I have a couple of question for cooke. Did the nut job kill 93 (+ or-) in Norway in the name if Christ? Did he shout God is great or something similiar as he murdered the innocent? What Christian church did he attend and did they teach him techniques for mass murder and then condone it? In other words cooke, did this have anything to do with Christianity?

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thalgard 3 years, 4 months ago

Lizzy...the Norwegian nut job claimed he was on a Christian Crusade to rid Europe of all its Muslims(http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_18543049). he says it in his diary....certainly, if you look throughout history, so called Christians have been responsible than far more acts of overt genocide than any other group ever! Maybe only the maoists can come even close...from Serbia, Nazi Germany, Spain, and the good old USA( the overt slaughter and mass dislocation of the Native American tribes can only be described as genocide).Christians have killed, raped, and stole in the name of Christ for centuries!

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rhys jones 3 years, 4 months ago

Surely everybody has heard Paul Simon's "Cathedral." "So many people have died in the name of Christ..." and Onward Christian soldiers!! Praise the Lord and pass the ammo. The Lord shall guide my aim.

With the tax-exempt status of churches in America, any illusion of church and state separation is just that. Give the sheeple a place to go and commiserate, praying for a better life the next time around, 'cause this one holds no promises. The Opiate of the Masses, is organized religion.

If everybody thought this life was it -- no tomorrow, no afterlife, no soul, just dust to dust -- do you think they'd settle for their lot now? Hell no!! There would be widespread panic, everybody grabbing his share NOW. Gimme your keys. No price to pay, just live life to the fullest.

But no, most of us are faithful in some way, sure there is a karma of sorts, both good and evil are rewarded, and I personally hope this life does not represent the limit of my experience or potential. This was taught at home, and reinforced in church. So maybe the tax breaks keep peace in town.

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Brian Kotowski 3 years, 4 months ago

No nation on earth can claim to be without behavior in its past that it regrets in the present. If past transgression is to be the calculus for present day evaluation, then virtually every human being on earth is a miscreant.

There is no Christian analogue to Sharia. Nor a Western parallel to UN Resolution 62-154, which calls upon all nations to criminalize any and all criticism of Islam. It is a Resolution championed by all 56 members of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. Not just a handful of lunatics in a cave, not just Iran or Sudan, but by every self-proclaimed Muslim nation on earth; including those whom our elites have anointed as "moderate."

Indicting Christianity in general or the West as a whole for the actions of isolated loons like the Norwegian whackjob; or suggesting there's any corollary between contemporary Islam and modern-day Christianity are red herrings, at best.

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thalgard 3 years, 4 months ago

Sep..I am in no way indicting Christianity as a whole...hence why I used the term "so called" Christians..I was just pointing out that to indict an entire faith based on the actions of a few extremists is ludicrous...which is what seu suk ee was doing. I was also pointing out, from a historical perspective, that alot of really bad things things have happened to cultures that resisted Christianization.

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the_Lizard 3 years, 4 months ago

Breivik, may have put something about being on a "Christian Crusade" but was he really a practicing, devout Christian? I read also that he said he wasn't even necessarily a religious man. So, I stand by my earlier points, I don't think he did this in the name of Christ, and I don't think he did it as a religious crusade. I haven't heard that he belonged to a church, nor was he trained by Christian theologians to kill, have you? So. I'm going to agree with Sep, there is no comparison between this freakish man, the NYT manically claiming he was a Christian, and Islamic terrorists.

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thalgard 3 years, 4 months ago

Lizard....I will have to agree with you on one point, this man was obviously a nutcase(he did hunt down and shoot children, after all), but I sincerely feel that he felt like he did this in the name of Christ...as did Hitler, the entire Catholic Church, Americans during the time of Manifest Destiny, the Boers in South Africa, the Serbs in Serbia and Croatia, The Spanish during the Inquisition and during the conquest of South and Central America, the Russians during the pogroms at the beginning of the 20th century, and the list goes on. How do you feel about the cultural genocide going on in the Amazon? How do you feel about the forced acculturation of Native Americans in this country? Most important to me, how do you feel about the Papacy inheriting billions of dollars in property and real estate liberated from Europe's Jews after World War 2?

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sledneck 3 years, 4 months ago

You, thalgard, are not damning Christianity; you are damming individual men... who are damned already. Many men have done evil in the Lord's name. They have their reward. Many others have done evil in their own name. They too have their reward.

"By their fruits ye shall know them." (not by their claims or words or promises or family name or net worth) "Many will say to me... Lord, Lord ... and I will say Depart from Me, I never knew you".

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