Rick Akin: Is there an adult in the room?

Advertisement

Here we go again. According to Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, the U.S. government will be unable to service its debt past Aug. 2 if the current $14.3 trillion debt ceiling is not raised. The president says that the government may not be able to make Social Security payments in August. He also wants us to eat our peas. Meanwhile, Republican congressional leadership is pushing for what it characterizes as trillions of dollars of spending cuts — over 10 years.

I, for one, am sick of this hogwash. We desperately need to have a genuine discussion of the appropriate size and role of government, but it does not look like that is going to happen. All we get are headline-grabbing quotes, when what we need is methodical analysis — and decent math skills.

Let’s first turn our attention to the Republican leadership and its math skills — or lack thereof. Do you remember back in April of this year when the debate was about the spending resolution and the GOP leadership promised $100 billion in spending cuts this year? Well, of course, they had to prorate that amount since only a partial year was left, so they pushed for $61 billion in cuts and settled for what they said was $38.5 billion in cuts, though the Congressional Budget Office issued a report almost immediately saying it was really $352 million in cuts. On later reflection, the CBO decided that it was actually a $1.3 billion increase in spending.

This is the same Republican leadership that criticized Paul Ryan for daring to propose Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security reform too close to an election. Here is a news bulletin for the GOP leadership — congressional elections occur every two years. Under your theory, we can never discuss this problem that threatens to bankrupt us all, because an election is always too close.

The administration’s skills are no better. The government takes in about $200 billion per month. Interest payments are $15 billion to $20 billion per month. Social Security payments are $49.2 billion per month. Active troop pay and Veterans Affairs benefits run $5.8 billion per month. Medicare and Medicaid total $50 billion per month. According to my calculator, all these items can be paid with money left over, even if the debt ceiling is not raised. Certainly, there would not be money for all items that have been appropriated beyond these, but Armageddon is hardly at the door. The bottom line is that the government can pay its debt, pay Social Security, pay our troops and veterans, and pay a lot of other things without raising the debt ceiling.

Both sides need to quit talking about cuts over 10 years. I do not care what you claim you are cutting in 2019. When the time comes, you won’t do it anyway, so this is just so much baloney. Tell me what you are going to cut this year, next year and, maybe, the following year. At least we can hold you accountable on these.

And the administration can also dispense with the class warfare rhetoric. It has apparently not noticed that to create jobs, you have to have employers.

Adding insult to injury, these shenanigans contribute to the bad economy. There is nothing a business hates more than uncertainty. If you want more jobs and an improving economy, the recipe is simple: low taxes, restrained regulation and predictability. These financial sideshows undermine all of that.

So is there hope? Sure. Some members of Congress, like Ryan, Marco Rubio and Michele Bachmann, understand all this, but they are drowned out, not just by their opposition, but by the leadership of their own party. The entire band needs to start listening to economic experts rather than media consultants.

All of this can be addressed in a logical fashion. For once, I agree with Warren Buffett: “I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says that any time there is a deficit of more than 3 percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.”

Buffett’s approach may be right or wrong, but it is clear that we will not get better until We, The People, demand it and settle for nothing less. It is plainly up to us.

“The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance.”

Rick Akin is an attorney practicing in Steamboat Springs, Denver and Austin, Texas, a former member of the Steamboat Pilot & Today Editorial Board and vice chairman of The Steamboat Institute. He holds a Bachelor of the Arts in Letters from the University of Oklahoma and a doctorate from the University of Texas.

Comments

Troutguy 3 years, 5 months ago

We already whipped up this "recipe" of low taxes, restrained regulation and predictability from 2001 - 2008. How'd that work out for the country?

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Great until the Liberals spent us into hell!!!!

0

Anne Mayberry 3 years, 5 months ago

Gee, seeuski, Let's talk facts..since 2001, the Republicans have held a majority in the US House of Representatives (and, I might add, "The House has several powers assigned exclusively to it, including the power to initiate revenue bills....") until 2007. Did all of the current debt begin after 2007?

0

freerider 3 years, 5 months ago

seeuski your attitude is the problem

you offer nothing and put nothing on the table to fix anything

congress acts just like you do , they are tooooo freking busy playing the blame game to do any actual work

you sound like a 5 year old that wants to bully the kid on the play ground and take his ball home

just like congress is doing

BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME YOU MORON !!!

4 TO 5 TRILLION WASTED BY GEORGE W. BUSH !!!

and you have the arrogance to blame liberals

The U.S.A. has once again hired a black man to clean up after whitey

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

freerider, once again you seem intent on pissing off as many people as possible. You are as bad as any politician out there, name calling and offering no solutions of your own. Seuuski has an opinion, just as you do. That it differs from your's does not make him a moron. And why do you always feel it necessary to pull the race card? Obama is as much white as he is black. His race has nothing to do with it. YOUR attitude is the problem ... ALL. OVER. THE. WORLD.

0

the_Lizard 3 years, 5 months ago

We already whipped up this "recipe" of outrageous spending, burdensome regulation and predictability from 1933 until 2011 and beyond in perpetuity. How'd that work out for the country? ehhh troutguy?

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Phoebe, you are a standup person, regardless of our differences you deserve a big hug for that post.:)

I have posted my opinions on what would fix this economy and so has the Republicans in Congress with the Paul Ryan plan, where is the plan of the Marxist that dreamers like freerider voted for? It is the responsibility of the POTUS to introduce a balanced budget but with Obama we get nothing! He should be impeached asap.

0

grundy 3 years, 5 months ago

Really Phoebe? Really? You come to see's defense with an opening line castigating freerider for trying to PO as many people as possible. And what was see's comment you felt compelled to defend - "Great until the Liberals spent us into hell!!!!". That's it, the entire comment. You're defending a guy who is, arguably, the most inflammatory poster on the pilot. You need a reality check, really.

0

jimmmmmm 3 years, 5 months ago

Seeuski-How was the movie, Undefeated? Even the movie title is a joke, isn't it? Any empty seats? Ha!

The people are beginning to catch on, and I don't think in your favor. To bad your "generic" Republican couldn't run for POTUS, cause that's the only Rep. winning in the polls, LOL!

Keep up the hate though, it seems to be working for us.

0

housepoor 3 years, 5 months ago

Here are few examples of why moderate republicans have nowhere to hang their hat in today’s republican party and this doesn’t even touch on the religious right. It seems that if you don’t cater to the extremists you are ostracized and labeled a socialist. I know that outside of Paul Ryan the majority of them are reasonable people but god forbid they even speak a whisper of sensibility when discussing the issues for fear of being ousted by the zealots. It would go a long way in the general election if someone would have the cohones to stand up and say what they actually believe versus this rhetoric aimed at pleasing the nut jobs.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/four-things-republicans-used-to-believe-2011-07-18?mod=mw_outbrain&Link=obnetwork

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

Grundy, read my post again. I was not "defending" seeuski. I "castigated" freerider for calling seeuski a moron. I would do the same for you. Or to you. I don't believe anything can be accomplished by name calling and hurling insults, which is freerider's modus operandi. He/she (I'm guessing he) may have something to say, but, unfortunately, his manner of speaking diminishes any real contribution he may have to make; and, if you think seeuski is "the most inflammatory poster on the pilot", your idea of inflammatory and mine are very different, or you just haven't been paying attention. Check out freerider's posts on other forums. He doesn't seem to know how to be civil in any of the discussions I've seen him participate in.

0

NamVet 3 years, 5 months ago

Reasonable people can come up with reasonable solutions unfortunately there are too many people in Congress like Seeuski who only know how to call people they don't agree with derogatory names like little children. Both parties got us into this mess especially over the past 30 years. The debt has risen from $ 900 Billion to $ 14 Trillion during this time not just since 2009. The true runaway fiscal train started when the Deficit Reduction Act was trashed in 2001 by the Conservative Republican Congress and G.W. Bush not Obama. Had this not happened neither Bush or Obama could have added one penny to the deficit. Now the Republican leadership wants us to forget this and shift ALL the blame to the last 2 years.
The Ryan Plan will not balance the budget until 2043. Why? It relies on tax cuts paid for by shifting Medicare to a voucher system. If this is such a good deal why doesn't Congress test market it for us by having all of Congress and their staff go on a voucher program so we can all see how good it is. As for tax cuts balancing the budget and improving the economy we have heard that since 1981 and all we got was almost $14 Trillion added to the debt mostly under Republican Administrations. If both parties would sit down and put together a plan with shared sacrifice(which has been lacking since 2001) instead of trying to position themselves for the next Presidential election then maybe this mess would turn around. America should come first not the Republican or Democratic party and their extremists.

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

Thanks, See. On the subject of politics, I'm kind of an idiot; that's why I don't comment. But I want to understand, and I appreciate hearing both sides from people who seem knowledgeable, actually think before they speak AND back up their statements. MOST of the people in this discussion fit that description. I had one of those no doc loans and lost my house. While I was happy to get it at the time, I realized too late that I never should have been given that mortgage. Conversations like this help me understand why it happened. Uch. Anyway, carry on, ladies and gentlemen. I'm learning a lot and rather enjoying it, in spite of the, uh, distractions.

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Phoebe is a good example for the rest of you here, open minded, non judgmental and ready to look at truth and facts, that is what it was that freed me 10 years ago from the very disease afflicting the usual suspects posting here day in and day out. The argument always ends up in the same circle ending up with Bush did it and it was the spending of the Republicans along with the "Republicans have no plan" nonsense. The only way Obama stays after 2012 is if he uses his private civilian army that he boasted about and was funded in the Obamacare law. Page 1312.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htw7shWR3oU&feature=player_embedded

This looks like 1930's Germany to me.

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

Namvet - FREERIDER was the one calling names. I'm beginning to see why politics is so confusing. Even keeping things straight on this little forum is difficult, lol! Oy.

0

grundy 3 years, 5 months ago

Phoebe,

Nice choice on what portion of my statement to quote, leaving out the arguably. That single word was included specifically to address differing opinions regarding what is inflammatory. My issue is not the substance of your comment but what triggered it. When one's efforts to persuade are so rooted in disrespect for opposing viewpoints, they are bound to provoke anger. I think everyone who's familiar with the pilot comment threads understands that when see uses the term liberal he means it in the most derogatory fashion imaginable. It is his version of name-calling and I'm pretty sure that's what got FR'er going. You may share see's beliefs, that doesn't mean you should overlook his tactlessness. And yes, even if you don't think so, you were defending see. He even wants to hug you for it.

Moving on topic, has everyone forgotten the biggest player in the game, special interest groups? In relation to economic recovery, I'd be interested to hear some tea party (or other) thoughts on campaign finance reform, protecting the weak from the powerful, stuff like that. Is the TP's support for businesses as unconditional as it appears? Are they totally fine with the continued concentration of wealth in the hands of 2% of the population? If we create more jobs but 95% of the population experiences a decline in their quality of living, is that success? Marxism is criticized for only working in theory. Who thinks trickle down economics fits in the same category?

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

If anyone wants the info on the Ryan plan, just go to Mr. Ryan's website and read the plan, don't bother with the talking points from namvet. Or read a fair opinion piece on it here, it describes the voucher deal and how it would not effect anyone currently in the system, under namvet and Obama there won't be SS available in 5 years because it will be bankrupted. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35515

The only reason Obama wants to increase the debt ceiling is so he can spread more wealth around, he is sending our money to the Arabs, Unions, reparations and to low income people for home purchases using no doc loans.

Pigford farmers reparations scam: You won't get this from the left wing media. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/115-billion-going-whom-investigate-fraud Watch what a real Black Farmer has to say about Obama and this scam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VanVQP...

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

I think Phoebe can think for herself, mind control, Obama supporters, go figure!

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

All I see are a bunch of children vicariously grabbing at the "wheel" of state through their favorite politicians. First the left spins it their way then the right gets power and spins the wheel back the other. The ship never has time to react nor do the economically illiterate children understand that ships (like nations) take time to change course. You children also seem oblivious to the FACT that ships with fatal, irreversible damage still take a long time to sink. You kids are bitchin about who hit the iceberg and who was steering the ship and who set the speed, etc while the whole thing slips farther down into the abyss. I can guarantee you folks that the politicians will have a lifeboat waiting somewhere when this nation sinks. They plan to leave you kids behind to "go down with the ship". And you won't even notice when they abandon you because you're so busy pointing at each other and screaming ..."but HE started it..."

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

Have absolutely had that thought already sled, the abandonment part, with their golden life rafts in some other paradise.

The solution is the Tea Party platform of 1.Limited Government. 2.Low Taxes. 3. Free Market principles. 4. Strong National Defense. 5.Individual rights and responsibilities. The Constitution spells it out.

As far as the who caused it part, that is the obvious strategy of the left leading up to 2012 in order for their failure to have a chance at reelection, they have no other way but to try and continue the campaign of 2008, the problem, BUSH won't be on the ticket and Americans like you are obviously tired of hearing as you say..."but HE started it..."

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes, I am tired of hearing it.

In the current "blame game" the left falls back on Clinton as some great president supposedly because he did not run up the debt. And they praise him for good economic times as if he was somehow more than just the "rooster" who happened to be in office at sunrise. But they conveniently forget much of his reality. The man sold military secrets to Red China and lied to congress. If he is the best they have they should stay home. The right thinks GW Bush was a great president. He ran us into bankruptcy. A judge who recently upheld the healthcare law (you know... the one all you conservatives hate so much) that judge was appointed by GW Bush!

BOTH of the last 2 presidents have started ill-advised wars. Bush in Iraq, Obama in Libya. Yet you critize only the wars started by the "other" president.

The left, who rightly criticized Bush for trampeling our Constitutional rights with things like the patriot act intentionally refuses to see that Obama RE-NEWED IT!! You people (american electorate) are pathetic, ignorant fools. You do not deserve the right to vote and it will soon be taken from you; albeit too late.

I could go on forever about how both political parties totally suck but, like I said most Americans are distracted; convinced their mascot can save us from the "other sides" foolishness. Both sides unable or un-willing to see the ship is listing. Both sides convinced that re-arranging the deck chairs will keep the ship afloat.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh, and worst of all... both sides still believing that politicians, most of whom are demonstrable liars, failed businessmen, yes-men, outright crooks or all of the above, can now somehow do the opposite of what they have accomplish for the last 40 years.

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

sledneck you go too far. I have argued endlessly about the Iraq war and why I am convinced it was a necessary event. I was a Dem until 2002 and was what could be called a Clintonite and I voted for Gore who thankfully lost. Nowhere have I said Bush was the be-all and if you paid any attention you would here the sounds from those of us active in the Tea Party that both sides are to blame, I don't fall on that sword with my foes here for good reason. That is why my choice for candidate is the only person with a track record of standing against the establishment GOP and DNC along with Big Oil for the benefit of her constituents. The arguments back and forth are mostly the what, who, where and when in the responsibility relating to our economic condition and I have argued that the Social Justice programs, primarily Fannie/Freddie a Dem pet for wealth redistribution, is the main cause of the big bang that put us in this mess.
My vote is very valuable to me and I will not lose it without a fight. And as to your last comment I can mostly agree and that is why we need to shrink the size of the Federal Government back to where it represents and acts on behalf of "we the people".

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

The government is never going to shrink. The people are at that stage so aptly described by Tytler several hundred years ago. They have discovered that they can "vote themselves largesse from the public coffers". The next stage of progression for America is collapse due to loose fiscal policy, followed immediately by dictatorship (which we are, quite probably in already). There is no other course.

And lest anyone say that is such a long way off I would reffer them to some of the worlds greatest examples of dictatorships. Just like today's America, voting was a "right" (in fact in some it was MANDATORY) but just like here today voting had ZERO impact and the state continued to steamroll over all who opposed it.

The electorate has become addicted to OPM (other peoples money). Not just fond of it but ADDICTED to it! It is un-educated. It is lazy. It has grown fond of empowering politicians to do what it, as individuals can not... seize property from their fellow men for their own use. Thus, power no longer resides with "we the people "; it rests, instead with the politicians who "go to bat" for us... by enslaving our fellow countrymen.

Only those people woefully ignorant of history and therefore "doomed to repeat it" would ever be so foolish as to empower government to the degree that this electorate has. That power will not simply return to the people. It will require something that is no longer in most Americans... a fight.

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

No argument from me on that. I do believe this is our last try at a somewhat free election and a shot at restoring the Republic. All depends on what tricks are up the sleeve of the Progressives and their current puppet Obama to subvert the electorate in 2012.

0

trump_suit 3 years, 5 months ago

Let me get this straight. If the American people re-elect Pres. Obama it is because they have been subverted by the Progressives. The people cannot be trusted to think for themselves. On the other had, if the Conservatives win, the people have spoken and we have a mandate for our conservative vision.

Nice circular argument there See. Hard to lose a debate with that sort of logic.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

It is not if they RE- elect him but that they ELECTED him at all that speaks volumes about the electorate. "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting such an inexperianced man with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore common sense and good judgement to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools who made him their prince. The Republic can survive Barack Obama. It is far less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

The fact that that quote came NOT FROM AN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE but from a European says all you need to know. When Europeans start saying our electorate is retarded you KNOW it's retarded.

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

Someone in the Czech Republic is calling the citizens of the United States a "confederacy of fools" and "depraved"? Hmmm ... I don't think I like that. Off to do some research on the Czech Republic!

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes, I think it was indeed the Czech Republic.

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

There also was a story in PRAVDA a year or so ago that hit on the subject also, how America elected a Communist or something to that effect. Hey, I tried my best but we just couldn't overcome the trump_suit types, maybe the awakening will be large enough to do so this time around, I am banking on it.

@trump, Subverted as in fraud, intimidation at the polls, dead voters, illegal voters, double voting, votes being delivered from the trunk of a car where all the votes are for the Dem, a 51st State like Puerto Rico where Obama just visited getting in, subverting the Military vote which happened in 08. The dirty tricks of the Obama operatives are limitless. Or he could just use the Chavez handbook and do what he has been doing to the people of Venezuela although I believe Obama already has used those types of tactics on us, quietly. But he is being busted out through the power of social media. This forum is just for fun these days.

0

jimmmmmm 3 years, 5 months ago

Good stuff Orley!

I guess it's time to recycle all the old BS for the final push to 2012. Get ready folks, Rev. Wright will be in Orley Seeuski Tait's next post.

Voter Registration Fraud Seeuski. Repeat. Big difference to most people other than you.

Don't you realize that Americans are seeing through that BS like they did in 2008?

Why not try a realistic approach, or better yet, and honest approach? This Murdock influenced style is backfiring.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Ted Turner and Jane Fonda's influence seems to have "rubbed off" on some too. And therin lies so much of Americas troubles. We are educated and informed by corrupt sources; garbage in- garbage out, no??

A source of some of my biggest confusion is this question (to jimmmm or trump, etc since you guys seem to be so often on the left): An even shallow look at history reveals example after example of how socialism fails. In fact, it fails EVERY SINGLE TIME it is tried. Why, therefore, are you guys so determined to support it here in America???

I would really like to know your answer. I have my own of which I am confident but I would really like to hear it straight from "the horses mouth" so to speak. Why do you think socialism is the right path?

0

seeuski 3 years, 5 months ago

You know jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmbo

I didn't even mention the illegal foreign campaign donations Obama received from places like the Hamas controlled Gaza strip or the $800,000 that was funneled through ACORN illegally. Who is Orley seeuski tait's? Should I be taking that bait jimmmmmmmmmm? Don't you have a question to answer from sledneck? Does Socialism work?

I have a question for you jimmmmmmmmm, Should there be Senate hearings on the "Gunrunner fast and furious" crime and should Obama and Holder be transparent with their emails etc. so we the people can have this Government held accountable for this crime? We know they are lying when they say, "I didn't know about it". What say you jimmmmmmmmmmm?

0

jimmmmmm 3 years, 5 months ago

Just because I post when I can't take anymore of Seeuski's lies, I support Socialism? That connection is hilarious to me. Oh, I get it, we've become a socialist nation starting in January 2009. Maybe according to Seeuski and Sean Hannity on a nightly basis, but not even close. You ladies have been drinking too much of what Rupert and Orley are serving.

Try this fun little activity ladies-go find a youtube video that shows how much corporate business assets are controlled by the gov't in the USA. Try it, it's fun. I bet you'll find something like less than .3%. Wowsers-less than .3%!! Now try this-take a real Socialist nation and find a nice youtube video about how much of the corporate business assets are controlled by their respective governments. Oh boy-that sure won't help your argument. Better not tell us your findings.

Does our government control the private sector, and the means of distribution? Not even close haters.

As far as your latest conspiracy Seeuski-if you're right, then he should be punished accordingly. However I'll assume it's like most of the crap you spew-it has no basis in fact, and you saw it on a youtube video.

Watch out!! Obama is coming to take your guns and money!!

0

NamVet 3 years, 5 months ago

Jim Give up when it comes from Seeuski. This person posts more than every other Steamboat resident does added together. Why? She spends all day listening to Limbaugh and sleazeball Rupert Murdock's FOX. She has called Pres. Obama every name in the book except the N word which they wouldn't print anyway. According to her the $ 14 Trillion debt actually happened since Jan. 2009 forget about Reagan who added more debt in 8 years than the country did in the previous 200 years. That was followed by H. W. Bush and George W. Bush who added Trillions more. Clinton turned it around but Bush trashed it all and went on a massive spending spree. The country was in such a mess in Jan. 2009 that no President could come in and wave a magic wand and turn it all around. The big problem is that the middle class jobs are gone forever. Thanks to automation and outsourcing overseas the job market will not improve anytime soon. Major US Corporations are sitting on $2.9 Trillion in cash. They created 2.4 million jobs last year unfortunately 2.2 were overseas. Why pay an American a living wage with benefits when you can pay someone in China or India $5 an hour with no benefits. In the last 30 years stockholder equity has been job one under Republican Administrations and screw the American worker. That is why in 1980 the top 1% had 6 % of all income and today they have close to 30%. The richest 400 individuals have more wealth than 90% of all Americans.
This myth that cutting taxes pays for itself (Laffer Curve) by creating jobs and balancing the Federal Budget is a joke. The Bush tax cuts where not only fiscally irresponsible in a time of War but also a job killer. If the Tea Party gets its way this month they will accomplish what Bin Laden failed to do on 9/11 and that is to bring down the US economy.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Jimmmmm, You support socialism. I don't know why; thats why I asked the question. Instead of giving a valid reason for your position you are denying that you hold such a position or calling it by another name. I will ask again: Why are you guys so determined to support socialism here in America when it has been a demonstrable flop all around the world? Can you answer that?

Nam, Blaming automation for job loss is akin to blaming Henry Ford for putting horse-drawn carriage builders out of work. Would we be better off still riding horses so those carriage builders could go on making carriages?? How is it that wealth is your enemy? You rant about the wealthy but offer NO OTHER method for eliminating poverty. Indeed there is no other remedy for poverty than wealth. I think your jealousy has blinded you to some important facts. First, lots of those "American workers" you champion ARE shareholders; the same shareholders you seem to take umbrage with when they do well in the market. And if it were as simple as you make it sound to just be a shareholder and rake in the fat proffits then why have you not done that??? Perhaps you could use your "fat proffits" to help the un-employed, hmmmm?? Second, if the "Bush tax-cuts" were so awful why did your hero renew them?? Ditto for the Patriot act, gitmo, the war in Libya, the covert ops in Yemen, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Seriously... WHY???

Third, why pay an American a living wage when you can hire one of the 20 million illegals?? If keeping wages up was as important to Obama as it is to you don't you think stopping illegal immigration, which clearly drives down wages, would be more important to your mascot in DC? Fourth, If shareholder equity was "job one" for republicans they sure have done a lousy job. Stock prices are lower (NASDAQ) that they were in the '90's.

Why, sir, do you think corporations are moving overseas?? Because they are being smothered here, sir. Do you think your mascot (or anyone else in government) can treat them like s**t and then just browbeat them into staying here and paying more for their needs than they have to??? And when you go to buy a new truck, sir, do you go where you can pay the MOST for it; or do you try to pay the LEAST????? How much taxes do you think corporations should pay, sir??? They pay none! And they never will pay. It is those "American workers" who are also the purchasers of those products who ultimately pay EVERY RED CENT of corporate taxes. Can you not see that??? Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics... great book... read it dude, seriously.

0

rhys jones 3 years, 5 months ago

Along with the Federal Reserve, it was Labor Unions which brought this country down.

They served their purpose well enough, around the turn of the last century, protecting immigrant and child labor. By the '30's, however, Federal laws protected workers as well, with the Fair Labor Standards Act, among others. Yet the unions continually needed to justify their existence, through higher wages and increased benefits. Now a high-school dropout on an assembly line in Detroit can make $70K a year, with full retirement and benefits, mindlessly starting bolts on their threads. While non-union college graduates make relative pennies.

"Save some work for tomorrow" was the word on the Union job I worked in Minnesota. "Don't work so fast -- yer makin' me look bad." "He who works and does his best, goes down the road, just like the rest." This is the work ethic I saw displayed. My work kept me in one area for long periods, and I observed many of these union workers doing NOTHING, ALL DAY. Or floating from smoke pit to smoke pit. They were milking America, Buddy, and you and I paid for it at the pump.

And we wonder why we can't compete now? Why it's cheaper to ship the jobs overseas, and the results back here, than it is to pay the lazy American?

We did it to ourselves, and oh what a fine mess this is.

0

Phoebe Hackman 3 years, 5 months ago

Highway - In that same vein, I once worked for a military sub-contractor. At the end of each quarter, we were told to "beef up" our time cards in order to use up all the money allocated for each task. I was told that it was the only way to be assured of adequate funding for the next quarter. When I began to realize there was a surplus at the end of each and every quarter, I questioned the need to continue this practice. I said I wasn't comfortable with it. My supervisor took my time card from me, added 16 hours to my total, approved it, and handed it back to me saying, "Here. Now you're not responsible." I had an "aha" moment about comments I'd heard regarding the government paying $100 for a hammer!

0

jimmmmmm 3 years, 5 months ago

Sledneck, or can I call you Mr. Neck,

Still not sure why you're asking if I support socialism. Don't really follow you, but no, not necessarily by definition. If you are referring to any taxation for the public good-which I assume you are, well that's not socialism my friend. If you mean do I prefer to have fire departments, police, military, clean water, clean air, etc., etc., etc., then yes, I guess I'm supporting socialism-by your definition only.

Good luck with your quest.

0

Jeff_Kibler 3 years, 5 months ago

Rhys and Phoebe, exactomundo. As far as war stories, I was a lowly assistant EE at Seattle City Light. Out in the field, it was not unusual that I assisted with installations of various communication and protective relaying BS. My co-workers seemed grateful that I picked up a screwdriver and helped disassemble a panel and put it all back together. We all had the same goal: Beer Thirty!

Then I met a certain guy. I tried to help out, and after picking up a tool he screamed "Are you a member of the Communications Local Union Chapter 565?" I was also a union member, the limp-wristed pathetic Engineers Local 212 Chapter.

Nowadays it appears it's union v. union.

0

OnTheBusGus 3 years, 5 months ago

Here is an interesting read on why it's difficult to manufacture in the U.S. from the position of a start up company trying to not outsource overseas. This involves clothing but echos along the lines of what Jeff & Rhys are saying. http://business.transworld.net/66996/uncategorized/domestic-debate-dirtball/

0

rhys jones 3 years, 5 months ago

This phenomenon exists today, even and especially in government, and even here in la-la-land. Spend it while you can. New lights, new cars, more cops.

When they shut down my squadron at El Toro, and we had so much left on the books, we all got a free pass at the base Serv-Mart -- bigger than NAPA and Home Depot combined -- for about $500, as I recall. Couldn't just let the money disappear; that'd be un-American!! A direct return on my tax dollar, was how I looked at it.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Sure Jimmmmm, you can call me "Mr. Neck". In fact, I like the way that rolls off...

Please go back and read the question again. I am NOT asking IF you support socialism. What I am asking is WHY. WHY do you support socialism in America when it has left so much misery in its wake around the world??

I do not consider fire fighters, police, or highways or bridges or the military "socialism". I do consider the "etc, etc, etc" you add in to be socialism in some circumstances and even if it's not it is mostly outside the domain of constitutional government.

Let me take a stab at "socialist" programs: Medicare, Social Security, government health care, public/ sec 8 housing, wealth redistrubution through progressive income taxes, 99 weeks of unemployment, welfare, food stamps, school lunch programs, low income home energy assistance, farm subsidies, bank bail-outs, wall street bail-outs, GM and Chrysler bail-outs, ethanol subsidies, consumer financial protection agency, etc.

But, really that's not the question either. The fact is that Barack Obama is a socialist and you proudly defend him, hence, you support socialism. Todays democrat party is socialist and you defend it... I just want to know why someone would support a system that has failed every single time it has ever been implemented.

0

jimmmmmm 3 years, 5 months ago

Mr. Neck,

As oppossed to Capitalism? Name me a system that has no flaws? Name me a system that hasn't failed?

I realize this is a debate that has and will always rage on, but I guess the only answer I can come up with is, I don't hate the President as much as you. Bottom line.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Jimmmmm, or, may I call you Mr. m?.

I can not name for you a system that has NO flaws because all of them are operated by flawed human-beings. But dragging capitalism into the question only muddies the issue and does not answer the question.

Capitalism differs from socialism in that it, when implemented fully, brings more people out of poverty and creates more wealth and prosperity than any other system. That has been demonstrated in real world tests time and time again. Conversely, socialism is a race to the bottom in which everyone seeks to avoid gainful work and, instead, live at the expense of everyone else. Each person, knowing their lives are ultimately the responsibility of government, seeks to do as little as possible for he knows the fruits of his labor will just be confiscated and thrown into the community's coffers for re-distribution. So, instead, he seeks to avoid production and wait for his monthly stipend (just look at the fury stirring now when peoples' "checks" are threatened). The real problems with this system begin to arise when innovations cease due to lack of capital support or re-direction of that capital by "central planners" to less important goals (ie no new life saving medicines, spacecraft, inventions like cell phones, computers, etc) and the most insidious part is that people never even realize what they have missed out on because it's not as if something were taken away but rather it (whether computer, cell phone, i-pod, etc) never existed! In short, nobody tries when they realize there is no reward or when their reward will be confiscated. Thats WHY socialism fails every single time it is implemented.

My question to you was WHY do you support that. Instead of answering that question you made a comparison to capitalism as a means of deflecting the question. I just now tried to give you a brief reason/answer as to why I favor capitalism. Will you please tell me why you favor socialism instead?

0

jimmmmmm 3 years, 5 months ago

Mr. Neck,

Thank you for the well balanced non partisan explanations of Socialism and Capitalism.

Go on with your rant-and good like finding your Capitalist utopia. When your ready to get real, come talk to me.

0

Troutguy 3 years, 5 months ago

Sled Does that mean that those who supported Bush 2 are Socialists too? After all, he took ownership of banks and the auto industry with taxpayer monies. How is that not Socialism? Or is it only Socialism when it comes from a Dem? Are you saying we practice Capitalism here? Your version of Capitalism "brings more people out of poverty and creates more weatlh and prosperity.."
What, then, have we in America been practicing the last ten years? Since the Bush Recession began, more people are now in poverty, the wealth has trickled upward, and only a few have prospered. That doesn't sound like Capitalism to me. I think we have become some version of an oligarchy. Lot's of power in the hands of a few people/ corporations.

0

cheesehead 3 years, 5 months ago

wow, a reformed liberal reciting lines from the uber conservatives. Capable of any independent thought? I remember saying it to our old buddy Svor (aka avrage joe); Blinded by the left, blinded by the right-" Wrapped up like a deuce another runner in the night."

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Trout, Sorry for not responding. Spent the weekend away from the real world "up in the sticks". Jimmmm won't answer my question. Instead he just makes subtle accusations that I am the " un-real utopian" in the bunch but I will answer your response, Trout. Hope you get this:

Yes, you are correct; much of what happened under Bush was socialism too, no doubt about it. Ditto for every administration for a long time. We have not been a truly capitalistic economy for far too long and that is starting to weigh on us as a nation.

I think what we have in America is some of the oligarchy you describe as well as fascism. Just today, when I got home I saw a news blurb where the head of chrysler was saying that his company had a "responsibility to... and to taxpayers". When corporations have a responsibility to taxpayers you are living in a fascist state... in my firm opinion.

Also, one needs to understand that in capitalism ther are winners AND losers. I never claimed that it was a utopia. My claim is that it is, by far, the best method known to an imperfect world. And when we (if we can) return to it we will see greater prosperity.

0

rhys jones 3 years, 5 months ago

Bush, Obama -- those are the symptoms, not the disease. Have you heard of the Fed's plan, to brand everybody with their own account number at the World Bank? Already some volunteers are testing the program. The idea is to eventually eliminate the need for cash or a medium of currency; everything will come into and go out of your account. It's all a part of "globalization," as borders dissolve for the common good. Soon we will all be members of the same bank, borrowing from them (of course) while they are able to track our whereabouts and doings at any chosen time. They know where you bought gas last, and made your last phone call.

About then I'll be living in the Alaskan wild with my sled dogs, having had about enough of Utopia.

0

sledneck 3 years, 5 months ago

Bush and Obama are indeed just the symptom. The disease is an electorate that can't find its ass with a guide dog.

0

Kerrie Cooper 3 years, 4 months ago

If, we as citizens were to behave or default on our loans (responsibilities), as they are about to, we'd be fired from our jobs and lose our homes. Why aren't the entire bunch in Washington fired as well and why aren't their homes foreclosed on? It's beyond shameless…..no matter what party.

0

Requires free registration

Posting comments requires a free account and verification.