Gary Hofmeister: A nation stuck

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— Worldview. We speak of it many times as regards different subjects: sometimes religion, sometimes geo-politico and oftentimes economic theory. It’s taken more than two years, but some Republican candidates are finally realizing what certain pundits have written about almost from the beginning of this administration. That President Barack Obama and virtually all of his team have a completely different view of “totally transforming the American economy” than most of the electorate thought they were getting. Hope and change, as vapid as those words are, meant moving America into the Social Democratic Western European model — read: quasi-socialist government mode of not owning but controlling most of the economy. It’s a lousy system Europe is turning away from while Obama is adopting it.

In my undergraduate and graduate college work, all of my professors were liberal, which led to my accepting that viewpoint before venturing out in the real world. But one particular situation early on was memorable in jolting my common sense to question the methodology of how the liberals would make the world more “fair and just.” We were discussing farm policy regarding how over-supplies and under-supplies are a recurrent problem. If a product brought abundance to the market, farmers would plant more and thus depress prices. If it brought less, they shunned it, bringing the price up. My professor’s solution was to give government bureaucrats the power to mandate “market controls” dictating what each farmer should produce. Even at age 18, that struck me as idiotic, that these nonfarmers could mandate quotas necessary to produce equilibrium for 300 million consumers and farmers alike. And even if they did, how would they enforce it?

Fifty years hence, I have a déjà vu of my professor being reincarnated into a Harvard-educated president with the hubris to think he is smart enough to manipulate all facets of our economy in this manner. This mindset further leads to that defining characteristic of the true liberal, which is a condescending attitude that the brilliant ruling class must lead the way in controlling citizens’ daily lives because they would surely mess it up themselves if allowed the freedom to make judgments on their own.

To say our conservative worldview is the antithesis is an understatement. Indeed, the man who articulated our beliefs only a generation ago did so beautifully by echoing the founding fathers and giants such as Abraham Lincoln. Ronald Reagan spoke often of We, The People and the necessity of government getting out of the way so the creativity, intelligence and energy of the American people could be unleashed. And wow! Did it work! Although Reagan had to take the heat in ’81 and ’82 for allowing a 10 percent unemployment, which led to his losing the Senate and many seats in the House, the tax cutting and regulation cutbacks spurred a quick rebound from that recession (7 percent growth vs. Obama’s 2 percent), which smoothed the way to his overwhelming re-election in ’84. Even more important, this became the foundation for the 30-plus years economic expansion that continued right up to 2008.

And contrary to so many pessimistic business people nowadays, I’m a firm believer that with the proper structure of the economy, this is possible again. Reagan famously said that our best days still are ahead of us. Obama thinks government leading the way will make this happen. It has failed. We are stuck. Prosperity happens when government gets out of the way. This also means a much more humble approach that Reagan personified by trusting the People, not himself and his czars to blind us with their brilliance and controls. Move aside, fellas.

Gary Hofmeister is the owner and operator of Hofmeister Personal Jewelers in downtown Steamboat Springs, a company he founded in 1973. He is a director of The Steamboat Institute and a former Republican nominee for Congress in the 10th District of Indiana. He made 18 trips to the former USSR to teach democratic-capitalism during the 1990s.

Comments

freerider 2 years, 9 months ago

WORST PRESIDENTS EVER

George W. Bush Richard Nixon Ronald Reagan

Repuke-licans mantra screw the poor ....well I gotta say it sure worked under these guys

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freerider 2 years, 9 months ago

Ron PAUL

2012

END THE FED END THE WARS END THE IRS END THE INSANITY END THE DRUG WARS

And you thought I was a Dem-o-crap

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bcpow 2 years, 9 months ago

More revisionist history.
Reagan raised taxes 7 out of 8 years in office.
Did you get your talking points on Bachmans website? Send in the clowns

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

President Reagan would never even win a primary race in today's purity tested Republican Party. Instead of going back 30 years in history to the glory years of the GOP, why doesn't Mr. Hofmeister take a look at the years of 2001-2008, which was when the last GOP President was in office (funny how Conservatives never look to the the Bush 2 Presidency to point out the successes of the party. Wonder why?) Today's GOteaParty is following the exact blueprint of the Bush 2 Presidency which only managed to oversee creation of 1 million jobs in 8 years (those two huge tax cuts sure created jobs didn't they?). But hey, he did manage to add $2.5 trillion in debt. Lucky for us, Vice President Cheney assured the nation that "deficits don't matter". Started a couple of unneccessary, unfunded wars (only time in our nation's history that taxes weren't raised to pay for these wars. Instead we were told to go shopping).
One other matter that gets overlooked is the recovery of the stock market. Own any stocks, Mr. Hofmeister. How's the stock market recovery since Obama took office? The Dow Jones Industrial Average hit a low of 6,443 a month after Obama took office. On Friday, it was at 12,657. All this happened under this Socialist, over-regulating Demaocratic President. How could this be?? If the GOteaParty had any original ideas (cap & trade and Obama's health care plan were once GOP ideas, but have been co-opted by Dems and now strongly resisted by the GOteaParty), I would listen. But they have none. Just the same ideas from the failed Bush 2 Presidency. Tax cuts and less regulation. How'd that work for us the first time?

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NamVet 2 years, 9 months ago

Pres. Reagan was a well liked President(I voted for him twice) unfortunately he could never be elected today. Why? Because the Republican Party has turned into a Party of extremists. When Reagan took office the National Debt was $900 Billion and when he left office it was $3 Trillion. He said as Cheney repeated in 2001 "Deficits don't matter". He gave amnesty to the illegals, he cut and ran from Lebanon, he RAISED TAXES, he bombed Libya, he did Iran-Contra, he bailed out the S & L's etc. There is no way he could get the Republican nomination today. Over the past 30 years the rich and powerful have taken over the Party and they have been rewarded with great wealth. The top 1% now have more wealth than the bottom 90%. The Middle Class has lost ground and will continue to lose round while the .the CEO's and Hedge Fund managers laugh all the way to the bank thanks to tax favored treatment which enables them to classify there income as Capital Gains at the 15% level instead of ordinary income at 35%.
Eric Cantor the Majority Whip will do anything to protect these tax loopholes and put the Nation in default but at the same time he has no problem adding more debt by increasing Military spending and foreign aid to his favorite country. Just 10 short years ago we had in place The Clinton/Gingrich Deficit Reduction Act which prevented ANY deficit spending.The first thing the new Conservative Republican President and Congress did in 2001 was to trash it so they could go on a massive spending spree which continues today. Remember "deficits did not matter" to them until a Democrat took over the White House. Obama has offered $ 4 Trillion in spending cuts including Social Security and Medicare and Republicans are saying NO to any deal if it closes any loopholes for top 1 %. If this country goes into default it will not be pretty and the Republican extremists like Cantor will have caused it. We will see over the next few weeks if sanity will return to the Republican Party or will the idiots prevail.

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Fred Duckels 2 years, 9 months ago

I hear much bashing of the conservative message but no Ideas other than Obama's "soak the rich" mantra. A budget might be nice. These left leaning politicos end up well off by prostituting this class warfare to the entitlement crowd. Greece's folks riot when may have to lose their fifty year age limit on retirement. They should soak the rich instead, we are way ahead of this crowd. Let's hear some ideas, and maybe even a budget?

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Hi Fred, I see no need to waste your time with the same ole left wing ideologues here on the pilot forum, their votes are solidly left. And as for freerider, there is very little difference between Paul and Obama on many of the issues that are of import to Americans, both hate Israel, both want our southern border open, both support a Ground Zero Mosque, both support the Muslim Brotherhood and the Palestinians, both have pals that are 9/11 truthers, both are wackjobs. Gary has shown in this letter that many of us awoke in our growing up that we were being manipulated by Progressive ideological thought control and we now see with clear vision that these desires are a pure and utter failure. Our economy has been destroyed by 100 years of Progressive Socialist programs first perpetrated on the people by Woodrow Wilson. If project Gunrunner or "fast and furious" doesn't constitute an impeachment of Obama and the saving of the USA as we knew it, I don't know what will. Can we hold on until the 2012 elections? Palin/West2012 Americans for the restoration of our Republic.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

namvet caught fibbing again! Obama offered 4 trillion in spending cuts? Do you think we can't hear or read namvet? Give it a break dude, we are all going down together, when will you let go and grab an oar?

Reagan got burned by this same tactic in his first term, the dems hoodwinked him when they said they would cut spending $3 for each $1 of debt increase. Liars.

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Fred Duckels 2 years, 9 months ago

Corporate jets, fat cats, and berating the competition will be the order of the day going into the next election. We will not hear much about liberal accomplishments produced by a veto proof congress. Keep on spending and hope for the best.

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NamVet 2 years, 9 months ago

How many spending bills did George W. Bush veto?

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bcpow 2 years, 9 months ago

I agree Fred, we need solutions and truthful discussion. Unfortunately neither party is offering one or the other because they are only interested in getting re-elected, and not fixing the problems of our county. How is it when I go into Ciao Gelato I have 20+ choices for flavors, but when we vote it is Vanilla or French Vanilla? And the teabaggers, Sarah and Michelle, are pretty much freezer burned Vanilla.
But it currently isn't raining so we have that going for us.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Well well, more left wing nuttery from someone called bcpow. As a Tea Party member our goals have been spelled out from the beginning, no hiding from it and we took back Congress which has given all Americans, even you bcpow, a chance at saving the last vestiges of a once thriving Republic. There would be NO pushback from the Progressive Socialist agenda if the Tea Party hadn't risen out of the ashes of the 2008 election, yes we are Tea Party Americans from all walks of life and from all different political parties, even Dems who once were fooled by "hope and change" nonsense. Sarah Palin WILL be a great POTUS and bring back prosperity and honor to that office. The 3 or 4 left wingers who still hold on to Obama's mantra and continue to blame his actions on Bush won't be enough to save Obama from himself, take a look at this.

http://www.beaufortobserver.net/publicationreturnframe.lasso?-token.address=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salem-news.com%2Farticles%2Fjuly092011%2Fholder-atf-death-tk.php

and this........

http://www.justice.gov/ag/speeches/2009/ag-speech-090402.html

Impeachment day is coming.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

Palin will bring honor to the Presidency? No kidding? I have a cactus that's wiser than the Mama Grizzly. Does that mean that POTUS Palin is still going to stand with our North Korean Allies? Did Paul Revere really warn the British? And people blame Bush for what Bush did. Record deficits, 2 unfunded wars, enormous tax cuts mainly for the well off, horrendous job creation. 1.1 million jobs in 8 years? Over 10 million jobs were created under the bungling Carter Administration for Pete's sake. In 4 years! All those giant tax cuts that, we are told, are needed for job creation. Where are the jobs? Instead, we got deficit spending and no jobs. Go figure. A politician lied to us. Hard to believe Conservatives were in favor of budget deficits before they were against them. Obama was the janitor elected to clean up the mess left by 8 years of incompetence.
And.......Bush lied, soldiers and innocent civilians died. Goes both ways. What's your point?

bcpow is right. Neither party has much interest in fixing what ailes America. They are slaves to their corporate masters thanks in part to those 'acitivist judges' who decided that companies are in fact people and can therefor buy every election now thru the end of time.

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heboprotagonist 2 years, 9 months ago

It's funny to me that Hofmeister and Seesuki write about going to college and finding their liberal professors/education to be nothing more than mouthpieces for the progressive movement.

I was raised in a VERY conservative household and went to a VERY conservative college (during the Bush II years) b/c my parents paid for it. I remember sitting in an econ class and having the same revelation, albeit from a different perspective. My professors were nothing more than the mouthpieces for the conservative agenda- spewing policy and philosophy that could only benefit the ultra-wealthy and large corporations while completely ignoring the struggles of the middle class.

I'm not saying that either education was better or worse than the other, rather that our perspectives are all skewed by our own perception. I find no fault in a well thought out opinion from left or right, nor would I blame either side for the current state of the union. Rather I blame the self-righteous indignation represented by the extremes on both sides.

In the U.S., we have neither a total capitalist nor socialist society. It's something in-between. And it would be wise to stop pretending that the U.S. could ever be absolutely one or the other. Believing that with enough "grassroots" movement, that with enough volunteers one side might be able to influence the course of the nation for decades to come, that's the only thought control I see. In that sense, you've been made to believe that you matter.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Well then you just made the case for the only person who has a record of standing up against the big Corporations and the big Politicians on both the R and D side. Sarah Palin, who in fact corrected her slip of the tongue and then repeated South Korea, during an interview that dealt with both N and S Korea. And Revere did warn the British that the Patriots had an arsenal and they would not give it up. But at least Palin still has 57 states to see that Obama apparently visited, or Biden claiming that FDR had a fire side chat on TV. Shall I copy and paste all of Obama's mistakes? And I wholeheartedly agree with you on Obama and his skill as a Janitor, he sucks at it. He has spent over 5 $trillion since he took office, started the Middle East on fire from Tunisia to Europe, backed our enemies and dropped our allies, taken down our missile defense deterrence, given military secrets to the Russians, supplied our southern neighbor Mexico's drug Cartels with some 30,000 high powered weapons, shoved the nightmare of Obamacare down our throats and the $trillions it costs won't begin to hit the treasury until 2014, lied about putting all bills on the internet for 5 days before he signs them, lied about taking a scalpel to all pork, lies upon lies. Give me a break. Your only retort as is the case with all Obama supporters is to blame Bush and the Republicans. Awesome work, who in Congress defended their Fannie/Freddie programs that got us into this economic mess? Repub's or Dem's? Geeee I think I can produce video after video of the lying dems claiming that Fannie Mae was in great shape and they want to spread more wealth around just before the crash of 2008. I can also produce many videos and evidence that the Republicans including George W. Bush AND EVEN Bill Clinton warning the Dems that they were going too far with there lending mandates. Until Americans are honest about the ills of our system we will never vote for the people who will fix it, and they ain't the Liberal Progressives.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

hebopotisonist, what college was that that you were being indoctrinated into cheating the middle class and supporting the rich? Gee, I went to the U of Miami, the U of MD and I never was indoctrinated, I learned the hard way, by starting and running a small business which was the struggle of my life. I survived by a shoe string and never became rich. I owned it for 13 years. I would have never been able to survive in today's high tax Socialist design. Not a chance. I am suffering in this economy just like millions of other Americans and I want NO handouts, I want a limited Government which allows for the private sector mom and pops to grow and hire and succeed, not BIG Government growth and BIG Union growth. We are a Capitalist based society that has had Socialism piggy backed on for the last hundred or so years and the weight is now too damn heavy for the private sector to support anymore. No college degrees are needed to figure that one out.

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bcpow 2 years, 9 months ago

Seeufall, how exactly do you know where I stand politically? What in my statements has led you to believe that I am a card carrying member of the ACLU? Maybe Bob Barr got my vote for Pres in '08. I must be a left wing nut because I don't follow your false prophet. Get a clue.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

That's right, See. The only ones that can save our souls is the GOteaParty. They had nothing to do with our nation's ills today. All that falls on.....Obama and the Dems. Gotta love selective memory.
Forget the fact that the only thing the GOteaParty offers up is the exact blueprint leftover from the Bush Administration. Cut taxes and regulation. That should fix everything. Just like it did from 2001-2008. Look at all the jobs created during those 8 years. Look at how the economy soared right up until Obama took office. In GOteaParty world, that's a fact. Never mind that the numbers don't back it up. It's true. All the right wing news and blogs say it's true, so it must be. There's not one Republican anywhere, ever, that is to blame for our nation's woes. It's all on the Dems.
Doesn't matter that Bush himself pushed for eliminating the down-payment requirement for FHA loans. Why on earth would that have anything to do with the housing bubble and crash? It's all Barney Frank's fault. Doesn't matter that a Conservative President bailed out the auto industry, the banks, etc. It's Obama and those wacky progressives fault. Judging by the facts here, it's hard to tell which party is Socialist.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

I'll give you a shot at the title Trout, Has Obama done anything in your eyes that he is responsible for as far as failing the economy over the last 3 years?

I won't respond to your other junk because the reality is not on your side regarding lending and the housing crash that sent us into this fall. But I will answer your turd about employment under Bush, it was at or below 5% and he lowered taxes to stimulate the economy twice, gee, I think he inherited a mini recession from Clinton's tech bubble days and there was some kind of terrorist attack I think on 9/11. Seems some have a selective memory.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Here is some food for thought to anyone who has continued to blame Bush or the Republicans primarily for our economic destruction, try and explain this one to me.

"In what could be a repeat of the easy-lending cycle that led to the housing crisis, the Justice Department has asked several banks to relax their mortgage underwriting standards and approve loans for minorities with poor credit as part of a new crackdown on alleged discrimination, according to court documents reviewed by IBD." http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=577794&p=1

Obama was involved with this crap in the 1990's as a "Community Organizer" for ACORN and acting as a Lawyer with the aid of the thugs at the SEIU he helped get Banks to make these same loans, now he is at it again but from the ultimate bully pulpit.

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1999 2 years, 9 months ago

see...do you forget who started these wars. really you're blaming obama....good god get a grip.

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MrTaiChi 2 years, 9 months ago

An NPR book review last week interviewed the author of 'Reckless Endangerment' a new book about the federal policies that led up to the housing finance caused financial crisis. The author seemed objective in spreading the blame. I'm going to try to acquire it and thought some of you might like to.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Thomas Sowell is pretty authoritative on this subject too!

@1999, no I have eyes wide open as to who started these wars, it was the Muslims who declared Jihad against the USA in 1996 and again in 1998 and published that declaration. Although I believe they have been at war with us for a century or more as it is written in their holy book, and we do know how they revere their holy book, hence the Pastor who wanted to burn the Koran caused rioting and death in Muslim Countries. The problem with what Obama is doing is he is aiding the Muslim Brotherhood in their quest for a global Caliphate and now we have this news today: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/obama-to-arm-muslim-brotherhood-in-egypt-in-armstank-deal.html "Obama to Arm Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in Arms/Tank deal"

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

Obama is responsible for plenty regarding the failing economy. Extending the unpaid for, set to retire for a reason, tax cuts. Remember we were told that we needed to extend those tax cuts to help job creation? What happened. "Job creators" got their tax cut extended, and yet unemployment remains high. They're sitting on $1.8 trillion dollars. Maybe they just need another trillion dollars, then they'll start hiring. Our incursion into Libya is a joke. Why not Sudan, Darfur, etc. No big oil interests in the latter, that's why. Not bringing our troops home and spend some of the billions we spend there here at home on some of our own 'nation building'. As for unemployment under Bush, sure it was at 5% at one time. What was it when he left office? 8.5%. What was it when he came into office? 4.2%. Pretty easy to have 5% unemployment when you inherit 4.2% unemployment, no? The numbers don't lie. Unemployment went up 4.3% under Bush. Under his leadership, we averaged 10,416 jobs created every month in his 8 years. That means success to you? And, yes, reality is on my side. Do you dispute that Pres. Bush pushed for eliminating the down-payment requirement for FHA loans? He did. Is that not what part of the housing crash was about? People getting loans with no money down?
You throw the term Socialist around about Obama regarding the stimulus package. Why then is Bush not a Socialist for bailing out the banks and auto industry? Last I checked, both were about giving taxpayer monies to businesses that resulted in partial Govt. ownership of those businesses. So, you blame Clinton's 'tech bubble' for the recession is the early years of the Bush Presidency, but you don't blame Bush for the recession now. Only Obama and the Dems? How does that work? If Bush inherited a recession from the Clinton years, would it not stand to reason the Obama inherited a recession from Bush years? Oh, that's right. All the country's ills can be traced to Dems, and Dems only. Especially those very powerful community organizers from Chicago. I never realized how much pull in Washington these community organizers had. How's the stock market these days? It hit 6,443 a month after Obama took office. It's at 12,500 today. Man, those companies sure need another tax break. How could the market rebound under such a Socialist, higher taxes administration?
MrTaiChi is right. Plenty of blame to go around. Dems and Repubs. Until we hold both accountable, we're gonna be spinning our wheels. We need to learn from our mistakes, or we are doomed to repeat them. If the GOteaParty had any fresh ideas, that would be great. But cutting taxes and regulation aren't going to do it. Didn't work in the last decade, and it won't work now.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Why do you think Obama wants "net neutrality" and also warned people against what they read on the internet? Because he wants radio silence as to his agenda, he has the George Soros paid for MSM on his side but he can't control the free flow of info on the net, yet!! He'll try.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

@Trout We can agree on one thing, both parties have fault to some degree, but the rest of your diatribe is easily refutable, and don't forget, most of us were alive during the last decade so rewriting history at this point won't get Obama re-elected. The unemployment rate when Obama took office was below 8% and everyone remembers when Obama promised at his state of the union adress when he said about his $trillion$ stimulus/spread the wealth plan that "the unemployment rate won't go above 8%". Where were you back in 2009? You still forgot about that little event known as 9/11 which also harmed the recovery from the Clinton recession. The housing bubble lie that the Dems like you want us to believe, FHA is a full-doc program and not where the housing bubble burst originated, I know, I was an originator. It was the no-doc b class loans that started the failures and the recession, the same type of crap that Obama is having Holder now continue. Here is some video proof of what I have been saying for years now. The Dems or the Repubs? you decide who was behind the housing bubble. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKY... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

Yea you are right Troutguy, if we don't recognize the history of our problems we are doomed to repeat them, when will YOU wake up to the truth?

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

Good letter, Mr. Hofmeister. We are a nation stuck - floundering really. Obama took a bad situation and made it measurably worse.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

You say we agree that both parties are to blame, then you go back to your "Obama and Dems are to blame for everything". I can't remember a post from you ever that puts any blame on the GOP. It's always "those Socialist Dems, blah, blah, blah. How is Bush and any other Republican who voted for this taxpayer funded expenditure not a Socialist just as you say Obama and Dems are for directly buying shares in: B of A Citigroup Goldman Sachs JPMorgan Chase Merril Lynch Morgan Stanley Wells Fargo Bank of New York Mellon State Street Group

It's Geoarge Soros and his money trying to silence the MSM? Ever heard of a guy named Rupert Murdoch? Does he not have the same goals as Mr. Soros? Media mogul with boatloads of money trying to influence MSM? And, please, please refute my 'diatribe'. I look forward to it. Obama said "The unemplyment rate wouldn't go above 8%" Bush 1 said "Read my lips. No new taxes" Clinton said "I did not have sexual relations with that girl" Reagan said "A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages......." Presidents and politicians lie on a daily basis. What's your point. Do you really think we ever get the full truth from our Government? Or are your feelings hurt only when it come from a Dem? Hasn't every President since the beginning of deficits said their plan would end them in (insert number of years here)? Every one of them lied. And lastly, if you are going to keep referring the dot-com bust as the "Clinton recession, then you should surely refer this latest recession as the Bush Recession" since both started in the last year or so of each one's term. It would only be fair. Here's some reading on the whole Fannie Mae / housing crash. As you can see, plenty of blame to go around. Started under Bush 1, pushed harder under clinton, and collapsed under Bush 2. Throw in a whole bunch of de-regulation and.....here we are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fannie_Mae

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

Obama took a bad situation and made it so much worse with his useless and expensive stimulus programs, FED mettling and new government regulation at every turn. Worst pres ever.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

That pretty much says it all pitpoodle, I'll leave Troutguy alone for a while as his blood pressure is worrying me. BUT, he did leave out the fact that it was Carter who created the Community Reinvestment Act in 1977 that started this ball rolling. Troutguy, do you deny the evidence that those youtube videos provide of the Dems defending and expanding this program? Or the fact that the Republicans were trying to keep the American people from swallowing the coming disaster that actually proved to be true as we now see? Are you okay with Obama's current strategy of wealth spreading by making banks loan to jobless Blacks and Latinos at the expense of taxpayers? Do you not see the hypocrisy of this POTUS as he stands before the media and claims to want to solve the debt crisis and at the same time threatening social security reliant folks that they won't get paid next month because of Republicans? It is Obama who has spent us to this ceiling and continues to do so, what do you not see in that? We are doomed because of people who deny reality. Blame Bush 1+2, Clinton whomever, but it is the here and now and this POTUS must be halted in his tracks before there is nothing left to save.

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae disasters lie at the feet of Clinton. No question.

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1999 2 years, 9 months ago

See....muslims didn't start the Iraq war The USA DID>

Muslims didn't start the war in Afghanistan. THE USA DID!

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Who attacked who 1999? Or are you a 9/11 truther nut?

1993 WTC bombing 1995 OK City bombing 1998 Khobar Towers bombing 2000 Cole bombing 9/11

Who attacked who?

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bcpow 2 years, 9 months ago

Can't wait for the OKC truther nut response.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Not a truther nut just a fact over fiction believer. McVeigh was guilty as charged but if you take the time to see that 2 courts of law found that Jayna Davis had evidence of the connection to Islam and the Ramsey Yousef cell you may just realize that you were lied to by Clinton starting in 1993 and leading all the way up to 9/11 because he wanted nothing to do with re-opening the war against Saddam Hussein.

http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html

I choose to seek the truth, you choose your truth as it fits your agenda. Big difference.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

"The most incriminating testimony centers around former Iraqi soldier, Hussain Al-Hussaini, whom witnesses place in the company of Saddam Husseinbomber Timothy McVeigh prior to the blast, seated in the passenger seat of the Ryder truck the morning of April 19, exiting that truck at ground zero, and speeding away from the bomb site in the only getaway vehicle targeted by the FBI in an all-points-bulletin for Middle Eastern suspects. Al-Hussaini has been unable to establish his whereabouts for the critical hours of that fateful morning, and more glaringly, the Justice Department has declined to officially exonerate him of suspicion." "Colonel Patrick Lang, a Middle East expert who formerly served as the chief of human intelligence for the Defense Intelligence Agency, believes Hussain Al-Hussaini would have been counted among Saddam's elite fighting forces.Our conclusion would be that this guy (Al-Hussaini) had been a member of either the Special Troops Division of the Iraqi Military Intelligence or the Adnan Division of the Republican Guard," Colonel Lang firmly asserted. The ex-military intelligence chief postulated that Al-Hussaini's purported history as a political dissenter was "complete nonsense," but the story, in his opinion, served as a clever means to facilitate infiltration into the United States as a false defector and Iraqi intelligence agent. "This guy is clearly not a refugee ... none of that fits with his tattoo."

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

I choose the truth over fiction, Hussaini sued Jayna Davis and lost his libel case in two separate courts because the Judges deemed the evidence so overwhelming as to believe that not only was Hussaini involved, but there was some connections to Iraq and Saddam Hussein, but hey, keep believing that honest Abe, Bill Clinton when he told you through his mouthpiece Janet Reno after 2 days of the bombing that the APB for this Middle Easter terrorist #3 was off and they had the 2 rednecks that did it all. Ignore the fact that Terry Nichols was married to a Philippine mail order bride and he traveled to the Philippines and met with the Yousef cell. Don't worry about the facts that McVeigh and Nichols were failing in their bomb making and tests and that trip proved pivotal in the final bomb making success. Ignore the fact that our Military found in a captured terrorist camp in Afghanistan a bomb making manual that named the same type of bomb "The Oklahoma Bomb".

The truth is out there if you seek it.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

If you open this link and watch the 1995 newscast by Jayna Davis and the witness interviews and you still hold fast that only McVeigh and Nichols were involved you are fools. There were no political reasons in 2005 to create a conspiracy about the Islamic connections. http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

I don't deny any of the crap you spew out about Obama. My problem lies in the fact that you and others like pitpoodle blame everything on Obama and the Dems. Now you blame Jimmy Carter. You call Obama a Socialist, yet fail to recognize the Bush Administration, by your definition of a Socialist, defined Socialism to a tee with the buying shares in banks and the auto industry with Taxpayer money. You call the recession from the early 2000's the "Clinton Recession", but don't refer this current recession "The Bush Recession" Why is that? Why can't you can place blame where it belongs, which would be from both Dems and Repubs alike? Are you upset that Obama has taken a page right out of the old GOteaParty playbook by using scare tactics and fear mongering perfected by the GOteaParty? "Death Panels", etc sound familiar? ( I believe your beloved 'Mama Grizzly' did a full court press with the 'Death Panel' scare. The same Mama Griz who admits she took the family to Canada to use that horrible, Socialized medicine, granny killing health care) Do you know what the term negotiate even means? Usually both sides have some give and take. Obama has offered up cuts in Medicare and SS, two sacred cows to Liberals. He's asking for 1 dollar of revenue increase for every 3 dollars of cuts. The GOteaParty has offered up, um, nothing. Just more "tax cuts for job creators" even though that is not proven to work. Where are the jobs? The Bush tax cuts have been in place for 8 & 10 years, respectively. They're still in place. Where are the jobs from these "job creators"? Time for the GOteaParty to come to the table and give in on one of their 'sacred cows', tax increases. Time for compromise. And, Poodle. You seem so sure of yourself. Please explain with any facts you can find, how Clinton, and only Clinton is to blame for the Fannie Mae collapse. Please divulge how you know that not one Republican is to blame for our nation's failures.
Blame lies at the feet of both parties. Enough of this "my party's s#@% don't stink. It's all the other guys fault.

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

In 1999, Fannie Mae came under intense pressure from the Clinton adminstration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas. This allowed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it purchased. Even the NY Times reported that Fannie Mae's move toward the subprime market would create significantly more risk especially in an economic downturn. Clinton insisted on affordable (and questionable) methods like the ability to offer a mortgage to low and middle income families in "under-served" areas, with a low or no down payment options. This allowed the expansion of the borrower pool using lower underwriting standards. Ultimately, this led to large numbers of borrowers often with poor credit unable to pay their mortgages. Don't take my word for it, Clinton himself said, "I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." You may recall President Bush tried to make these revisions but was told by Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, etal that it wasn't necessary and reform initiative failed .

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh, one more thing. We do not need more and higher taxes. This country has a spending problem not a revenue raising problem. Dems do two things really well - taxing and spending.

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bcpow 2 years, 9 months ago

Let me get this straight seeufall If you don't believe the govt version of 9-11 you are a truther nut, but if you believe the govt version of okc you believe fiction over fact. So GW = fact and BC = fiction. Are all your beliefs this convenient?
Teabaggers sure are funny.

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1999 2 years, 9 months ago

i think what is also interesting is that our entire economic mess lies at the feet of Obama and dems.

yes...the entire economic mess was brought to us by dems and Obama.

republican have had virtualy NO SAY in any gov decision in the last 30 years.

how convenient is that!

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NamVet 2 years, 9 months ago

We have been told for the last 30 years that by cutting taxes the economy would grow and the Federal Budget would be balanced and the deficit paid off. Taxes are the lowest they have been in 50 years. Unfortunately the opposite has happened. The deficit grew from $900 Billion to $ 5 Trillion. In 2001 we were told that is we cut taxes again the economy would grow and the deficit would be paid off. The deficit was $ 5 Trillion then and $ 14 Trillion today. Again we are told that if we cut taxes one more time the economy will grow and the deficit will be taken care of. Does anyone really believe it will work this time? This country has a spending problem and a revenue problem. This will not be solved until both parties return to sanity and do what is right for our country not some political hack on radio or cable. It is called "Shared Sacrifice" which has been absent since 2001. If the country goes into default the result will be an economic disaster that will make the Great Recession look like child's play. They will accomplish what Bin Laden failed to do on 9/11 and that is to bring down the whole US economy. Is this what we want?

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

Namvet Deficits are caused by spending more than you have.
It is spending that is the problem not too little taxation.
Don't believe everything politicians and the media tell you about what will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised. Yes, yes they say it will be an economic disaster but will it? Personally, I have my doubts. My guess is that it is a tactic meant to scare us into submission. It is Mr. Obama and company who have worked to bring down the US economy with his spending (including the stimulus programs) and bad policies and bad judgement since he took office. Is that what you want to continue to do?

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NamVet 2 years, 9 months ago

Pit did you forget G. W. Bush and his massive spending? Compare where this country was on day one of Bush's presidency and day one of Obama's presidency. Who got the screw job? Who did away with the Clinton/Gingrich Deficit Reduction Act which prevented deficit spending? The Conservative Republicans or the Liberal Democrats in 2001? You are 100% right that we do have a spending problem but we also have a revenue problem. The Bush tax cuts were combined with going to War. Neither was paid for by cutting spending as would have been required by the Deficit Reduction Act. You also forgot Bush's Medicare Part D which was also passed with borrowed money. Then we can top it all off with the $780 Billion Wall St. bailout all done with borrowed money. You can blame Obama for the Stimulus Plan and Health Care Reform Act which I was against. But fair is fair and you must take responsibility for all that happened under the Conservative Republican watch. Eric Cantor voted for every one of Bush's deficit spending proposals including raising the debt ceiling 7 times under Bush. The only reason he is against it today is that there is a Democrat in the White House. Yes deficits are caused by spending more than you have but 10 short years ago we had in place a law that prevented that which was just as good as a Balanced Budget Amendment and who trashed it? If this country goes into default I'd trust Moody's, Ben Bernake and every respected Economist that says it would be a financial disaster before I'd trust the opinion Bachmann or Limbaugh. Do you want a Ski Season where there are no tourist spending money here. If so wish for a default.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

You left wing Socialists can't handle the truth. Anyone that believes the US Govt bombed itself either on 04/19/1995 or 9/11 are wack jobs. OK city evidence just happens to show that Muslims attacked us with home grown Neo Nazis, what is so hard about seeing the truth? The video evidence I have provided to my Socialist friends clearly proves that the Dems created the housing bubble which destroyed the world economy, you can lay blame all you want at the feet of the innocent, but you can't prove it except to spin numbers as namvet does on a daily basis. I am a recovered former Dem who adored Clinton as many of you ObamaZombies have shivers up your legs for the avowed Marxist, I freed myself from those chains of insanity 9 years ago, it feels good to be able to see clearly without the old agenda to haul around.

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

So the charade works. The talking heads squawk into the cameras and microphones, and the populace buys it, one side or the other. Neither sees the puppeteer -- the Fed -- pulling the strings, and writing the lines. Unrestrained by anybody, their banks rank first and foremost. THEY dictate policy, neither farce party. Don't look behind that curtain!!

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm with you highway, end the FED! End the EPA, end the dept of ed, end the IRS with a flat consumption tax. Shrink Gov't to it's useful and affordable size. Close the damn borders. Restructure the SS and Medicare systems so they can survive, end Fannie/Freddie so that the taxpayers no longer guarantee spread the wealth lending. Give GM and Chrysler back to the Bondholders and let them sink or swim without taxpayer parachutes. It's just too dang easy but you know, it's Bush's fault!!!!

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

"f this country goes into default I'd trust Moody's"
Careful, NamVet.
Moody's was one of the credit-rating firms that severely misjudged securities during the financial crisis. They misled investors for one major thing. But the worst of their indiscretions was that they gave high ratings to securities that turned out to be excessively risky - namely, the subprime mortgage-backed securities that they determined should have the highest ranking of AAA. Remember, these securities later contributed greatly to the meltdown. I wouldn't trust Moodys.
Think for yourself. Also, Mr. Bernanke has not used the best judgment in recent times.

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pitpoodle 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh, one more thing about Moody's. Not only did they misjudge and mislead, they tried to cover up the erroneous AAA ratings it had given.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

Unfortunately, the GOteaParty opposes holding firms like Moody's legally liable in cases where their ratings were found to be innaccurate. Why are they trying to kill this portion of the Dodd-Frank bill? Hope you called your local GOteaParty leader and expressed your outrage at this.

And, See, nobody on any of these posts blames Bush, and Bush alone, for the financial mess. Most are smart enough to realize there is plenty of blame to go around. But what's the fun in that? Let's give it a try. I agree we need to end the Bush Socialist program the was the auto bailout. Why not stop there. Let's put an end to the Bush Socialist bank ownership too. Sure would be a good start to ending the Bush Recession. Nah. Easier to blame Obama for everything.

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Jeff Kibler 2 years, 9 months ago

Context: BHO's election.

" ... he's a Democrat and that didn't seem to me to be an improvement over Republican. I don't know if you've noticed, but our two-party system is a bowl of s**t looking in the mirror at itself."

--- Lewis Black

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Duh Trout, Obama said "we can't let GM go into bankruptcy" so Obama takes GM's stock shares away from the Bondholders, you know those people who got gifts from their Moms and Dads in the form of stocks and bonds for their college education, and forced GM into BANKRUPTCY and then gave those shares to his pals at the UAW for political power purposes, how innocent. And because we the Taxpayers are now on the hook for this Company we are losing billions of dollars in OUR money to keep the Union machine fat and happy so they can continue to feed Obama's upcoming campaign piggy bank. After all, where else would Obama get the $billion$ dollars he stated as his goal when he started his 2012 campaign on Jan, 20th 2009? I don't need to address your other silly Bush comments because that only works for committed sheep, the rest of America is waking up and dropping this poser like a hot potato, heck, some person named Generic GOP has a 47% to 39% lead on Obama in the 2012 Presidential polls, and this comes before the real Candidate even has the first debate with the TOTUS/POTUS. Dead meat.

And as far as his forced Obamacare nightmare which will crush America with a final death blow, why is it so important for this born Muslim to exclude Muslims from that which the rest of us will be fined for not buying? http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp It is in the law, dhimmis.

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Jeff Kibler 2 years, 9 months ago

See, did you actually read the entire snopes article, or just the first four paragraphs? And what the hell is a "rouge politician?" (we all know the answer to that rhetorical question)

I guess we're all puffing some Bush Kush to alleviate our Obama Trauma.

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

Was it Janice, who said if ya ain't got nothing, ya got nothing to lose.

And such is my own situation. I don't care what happens to the stock market, or indeed, the whole economy. Greece might just be the first domino, and it wouldn't bother me to see that catch, worldwide. Gimme a while; I'll work out how the Fed made all this happen.

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

And just to clarify: While I see the word FED floated freely in these forums, often in reference to our Federal government, when I say Fed I am specifically referring to the private corporation, unrestricted by anybody, which controls the US economy, sets the prime interest rate, prints the money then sells it to the government at interest, and lends the government even more money, again at interest, so they can buy bombs and bullets and lots of combat boots. That's the Fed I am talking about.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Jeff, I read it and I posted it knowing that snopes is a lefty defend Obama site because it clearly shows the opinion of snopes against the wording of the law, this is how Obama's laws, as written by the Tides foundation(progressives) achieve their intended goals down the road. This is also why Cass Sunstein was named Regulatory Czar, he takes these vague rules that have been passed and tweaks them. As Pelosi said, "we have to pass it to see what is in it". If you need I can find the non Lefty interpretations of this clause which will be more honest in their descriptions, but it's up to the individual after 3 years of Obama if they trust him with fairness, I'll go on his record and say, NOT!

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

I see the FED as you do highway up to the last statement, I see them as a globalist toy of the elites currently influencing the redistribution of the wealth of the US to Countries of Obama and Soros' choice via quantitative easing and other tactics like interest rate manipulation. We don't need and won't survive with this destructive mechanism. End the FED.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

Come on, See. Address my silly comments about Socialist Bush. The same guy responsible for this, the Bush Recession. Just as Clinton, in your eyes, is responsible for the one when Bush took office. Bush the Socialist who gave taxpayer money to the auto industry and big banks. And if Obama is a Muslim, why would he be hanging around with Rev Jeremiah Wright? What's next? More birther questions? 2009 called and they want their conspiracy back.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Trout, you obviously need to look up who and what Wright is and has been involved with. Ever herd of the "black separatist movement"? Ever heard of Obama's biological father Barrack Hussein Obama Sr? Or his 2nd pop, Lolo Soetoro? Both men were Muslims. Did you know that Obama attended a Madrassa in Indonesia? Did you listen to Obamas own voice for his audio book, "dreams from my father" where he says, "the sweetest sound is the call to prayer" or "when push comes to shove I'll stand with Islam"? Did you see Obama bow at the feet of the Saudi King? If this is a lie then shiver me timbers: It is him in his own words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE9mZC...

And if you read todays Pilot you saw Krugman say the same things about Bush as you, oh, maybe you did read Krugman today and every time he, or any of the other lefty talking points sites poses these talking points. I answered your questions in earlier posts, but you ignored that evidence of who was responsible for the economic boom and bust we are in. Besides the how, it is the now, and Obama is spending us into hell. Lie that one away if you can. 9.2% unemployment and rising again.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

I didn't ignore who is responsible for the boom and bust we are in. We are in the Bush Recession, just as you claim we were in the Clinton Recession when Bush took office.
Unemployment in Jan 2001 --- 4.2% Unemployment in Jan 2009 --- 8.5% Jobs created from 2001 - 2009 --- 1.1 million. Increase in debt as % of GDP between 2001 -2009 --- 28% Socialistic takeover of Big Banks and the auto industry in 2008. Wow! Look at those numbers. What success!! No wonder the GOteaParty wants to continue the same blueprint as Bush. The economy was just great right up until Obama took office.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Try harder, we know who the spenders and Marxists are, all the spin in the world won't create the fantasy that you Progressives need to reelect the Marxist in Chief.

Obama has spent in his 2.5 years, more then all the previous Presidents combined. He has lit the world on fire with wars in support of the Caliphate movement, and he has spread our wealth to our enemies. Great stuff.

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NamVet 2 years, 9 months ago

Trout, give up See gets all her info from Rupert Murdock's "Fair and Balanced" FOX and the Limbaugh Comedy Hour. Now you know what happened to Germany in the 1930's. It is happened here and instead of Brown Shirts we have the GOP Tea Party..

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

Oh yeah. Forgot about Mr. Murdoch. What's he up to lately. Hope he's staying out of trouble.
What fantasy? You're right. We know exactly who the spenders are. Reagan strarted the spending brigade by increasing our debt 20.6% (GDP) . Under Bush 1, our debt increases another 13% (GDP). Under Clinton the debt was lowered by 9.7% (GDP). Under Bush 2 the debt again went up 28.7% GDP. Thru 2010 under Obama, the debt increased 9% (GDP). Yep. We sure know who the big spenders are the last 30 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National... Looks like Eisenhower was the last true Fiscal Conservative. All the rest are Fiscal Conservatives in name only. Tax and spend liberals got nothin' on the GOP the last 30 years.

We are now mired in the Great Bush Recession with no end in sight. Face facts. President Bush was a Socialist. Bought shares in Big Banks and the Auto Industry with taxpayer money. Maybe he shouldn't have listened to Dick ("Reagan proved deficts don't matter") Cheney. It's kinda hard not to notice that deficits do matter only after Bush and Co. ran up the nation's credit card to pay for two wars and 2 enormous tax cuts for his campaign contributors, but didn't matter just a few years ago. Oh, the hypocracy is thick around here.

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jimmmmmm 2 years, 9 months ago

That's some real Orley Taits style bs you have there Seeuski. Your level of spin is unbelievable-you've been swimming in the Murdock pool so much, you've become one crazy broad!

Obama started these wars? I know you don't like blaming Bush for anything, but that kind of bs is what will lose the next election for you extremists. Across the board is my prediction.

Why do you keep saying you voted for Clinton-that's so funny and I'm assuming a complete lie.

Keep up the good work Trout-your presentation of facts on this forum is making her crazy.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Do I really need to spend the time listing the Obama takeovers of private industry? Or Obama's ties to Goldman Sachs, GE, even BP? How about ACORN, George Soros and all the scumbags in Chicago like Rezko, who is in jail, or was. How about the New Black Panthers that were absolved of voter intimidation after being found guilty? How about the beer summit after Obama inserted race into the picture? How about Obama running a $1.5 trillion dollar deficit every year without a budget? How about Obama injecting millions into the political elections of a foreign country,Kenya, for his Cousin Odinga because he favors the Muslim Luo tribes? How about the criminal act of arming the Mexican drug Cartels with up to 30,000 weapons and then after getting caught signing an executive order to go after legal gun sales? These are just off the top of my head and not cut and pasted from the dailykos kooks as Trout does. Everyone knows Trouts numbers he is copying are fudged, we all were awake over the last ten years and we know that Bush carried an average unemployment rate over his 8 years of 5.2% where as Obama's avg over his 2.5 years is 9.4% and rising again even after his failed stimulus which he warned if not approved would have unemployment go over 8%. We all know that food stamp users have risen under Obama by some 15% or so, Gingrich was called a racist for pointing that one out. Obama called it "failed leadership" as Senator when he voted against raising the debt ceiling while Bush was President but now uses scare tactics against Seniors and needy Children to get that same debt ceiling raised and more money for his spreading of the wealth, much as he did when he said Doctors were "chopping off feet for extra money" in his fear campaign to get that Socialist behemoth Obamacare forced down our throats. Keep trying Trout, your date Jimmmmmmmm likes your junk.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

No, you don't. But you do need to recognize that Pres. Bush also took over private industry. As much as you claim Obama is a Socialist, Bush definitely meets the criteria as well. Do I really need to list.......again, all the Companies Bush took over with taxpayer money? Get real. Can you really tell me that Obama and the Dems are the only ones with ties to Big Banks, Industry, etc. No Republicans are tainted by corporate money? Not bought off by the Oil industry, Big Banks, Pharm, etc? Just as the Dems are? That's just plain naive. We all know Govt. has become a revolving door between it and private industry, lobbying, 'consulting', etc. As for Goeorg Soros, have you ever heard of the Koch Brothers? The GOteaParty's answer to Mr. Soros? I know you have. What do you think their agenda could be? Never heard of Dailykos before, and as far as I can remember, I've never pasted anything from them. Do you have a problem with Wikipedia? That's where I get alot of the numbers you claim are fudged. Who is 'everyone', and how do they know I fudged all these numbers? That's a pretty heavy accusation, and, once again, you've got nothing to back it up.
Yes, we were all awake during the last 10 years. Sure, Bush oversaw an unemployment rate that averaged 5.2%. But you fail to mention that he came into office with an unemployment rate of 4.2% and left office with an unemployment rate of 8.5 % That's an increase of 4.3%!! Please show 'everyone' that these numbers are fudged. 1.1 million jobs created from 2001 -2008 (that's a 10,416 average per month over his 8 years in office). Please show 'everyone' how these numbers are fudged. How's your stock portfolio these days. Must have been sweatin' it pretty hard when it tanked out at 6,443 a month after Obama took office. What is it today? 12,561. How ever could that happen under this Muslim, Socialist, Democratic, Marxist President? Please show 'everyone' how these numbers are fudged. Face it. We're stuck in the Bush Recession, and no amount of Socialistic remedies from Bush or Obama has fixed things. As for the food stamp increase, where do you think that started. Remember, we are in the Bush Recession. Didn't the economy tank under his watch, at one time losing 500,000 -700,000 jobs a month? Gee. That wouldn't cause unemployment numbers too rise, now would it? Please show 'everyone' those numbers are fudged. Maybe just a few of those unemployed at that time might have needed to and are still on food stamps. That would be the correllation between unemployment going up 4.3% and the rise in the need for food stamps, don't you think? And don't get so jealous when Obama takes a page out of the GOteaParty playbook using scare tactics on the elderly. Death Panels ring a bell? Right from the mouth of the Mamma Griz herself. She wasn't trying to scare anybody, was she?

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

If the unemployment rate was 8.5% when Obama was sworn in twice, why then did he need to go on national tv and swear to all of us that if we pass the stimulus package the rate wouldn't go over 8%? Is it because the rate was below 8% at that time? More like 7.4%? Spin it all you want Trout, Obama is responsible for his record and Bush is responsible for his. Bush paid for it for 8 years in media bias and Obama gets a left wing media pass, paid for by Soros who along with the Progressive movement are trying to, as Obama put it 5 days before the 2008 election in Denver,"we are 5 days away from fundamentally changing the United States of America", what he didn't say and only those like yourself would have known at the time is, to what? And we now have that answer, he meant the end to free market Capitalism and the move towards Western European Socialism at the hands of a globally governing elite class. I have a news bulletin for you again: Listen up: Nice and Close now: BUSH AIN'T RUNNING IN 2012........ And Palin absolutely referenced the advisory panel that the President picks and the HHS Secretary resides over. Yes she did, and thankfully Sarah speaks the truth because with nuts like Donald Berwick involved we are all looking at disaster down the road. Death Panels are in the law. Although you may be OK in the end because you vote the way they like but me? I am making contingency plans, you may want to also because we will have no coverage as this Obama dream is truly a nightmare to come.

And please don't incite me to put up all the video on Soros, Obama, and the rest involved with this conglomerate of global Marxists, it is available if need be.

And Obama is lying about the SS checks, the Children in need being dumped and the Vets not getting their checks if we don't raise the credit card balance. The revenues we have are enough to cover our debt payments and those big entitlements, it is the crap that Obama has increased in the 28% increase in discretionary spending over what Bush had that is killing us. Tell him to cut that crap out Trout, I know you are pals with O from the old party days when Obama admittedly snorted cocaine and dealt drugs. Dreams From My Father wouldn't tell a lie on that account.

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sledneck 2 years, 9 months ago

You guys really do think the roosters crowing causes the sunrise, don't ya??

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Yea! Cockle doodle doooo. Wakes me up at 3am.

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Troutguy 2 years, 9 months ago

Ok. You got me. Unemployment only went up from 4.2% to 7.4% under Bush's policies according to your numbers. Well that's different. If that spells success to you in the employment area, you sure set the bar awfully low.
What about all the other numbers that I fudged. Please show 'everyone' how wrong I was.
The mealsy 1.1 million net jobs created in 8 years. The Socialistic bailout of the banks and auto industry under a Republican President. The Koch Brothers. What on earth could they be up to. Don't make me post videos....... And all the other things you accused me of fudging. Do you believe Wikipedia is a leftist Democrat loving source of info or would you consider it credible? Still waiting for an answer. l know the numbers they produce don't back up what you want to believe, but they're pretty accurate.
Or is the unemployment number the only one that you could find that would possibly make the Bush years a wild success. Only went up another 3.2%.
You do a bad job of defending the failed policies that started the Bush Recession. You sure can bash Obama with the best of them, though. But you can't change history. The Bush Presidecy will go down as a complete failure. Not one good thing came out of those 8 years. Unemployment sank. The economy tanked. The housing bubble burst. All under the Bush Administration. If tax cuts, and tax cuts alone, create jobs, what happened? Why is unemployment so high with those cuts still in place? Please have some answers, not some empty rhetoric about me fudging my numbers and saying I post from a website I've never heard of.

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

@Trout Your fishy smell is going to your head. 1st off lets deal with the goofy 1.1 million jobs number you found somewhere, during the bush years the unemployment rate remained fairly steady at around 5%, it rose and fell by a few tenths along the way but in order for that rate to achieve that low a number over time many more then 1.1 million jobs would have been created. Lets talk about who creates jobs, that may be an issue for a Liberal here but we'll try. The private sector is the job creator not the President, not Congress, not the tooth fairy either. When the Federal Government imposes heavy regs and entitlement laws that burden small business then people lose jobs as is the case now under Obama and his Big Government philosophy. The vast majority of what Obama claimed created or saved were in the PUBLIC SECTOR, ie, BIG GOVERNMENT. Who pays their wages? We do, the private sector. So if the private sector is losing jobs and the public sector is gaining jobs, then taxes have to increase to support that or we have a debt ceiling crisis, and as Obama said himself in 2006 when he voted against raising the debt ceiling while Bush was President and over spending, "IT IS A FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP".
Next, Wiki is a public forum where anyone can edit facts and data as your numbers clearly showed because it would have been impossible for the unemployment rate to be above 8% when Obama took office, as you quoted from Wiki< and then Obama claimed "the stimulus would keep rates from going over 8%". Bush: Having voted for Bush in 2004 I am less angry at him then the Libs like yourself because I studied who attacked us starting back in 1993 and leading up to 9/11 and determined that Bush was right in going after Saddam Hussein. I have made my case here in numerous postings and won't waste time with the concrete minds that are my opposition. I don't care if in 2003 Gore was POTUS, I mistakenly voted for him, and he went into Iraq I would have found the same info and come to the same conclusion, that Saddam Hussein was financing and a State sponsor for the terror that we endured from the 1993 WTC bombing and rest of the attacks up to 9/11. I was against TARP but TARP is different then Obama and his takeover/theft of GM, Chrysler and his new Regulatory laws which gives him power over private industry along with payrolls and more. His sponsor, The Tides Foundation, is a conglomerate of Globalists and anti Capitalists who have written some or most of the laws Obama has passed such as the stimulus, Obamacare etc. continued>>>>>>>>>

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seeuski 2 years, 9 months ago

Tax rates/cuts whatever, You can take 100% of the income of the top 2% that Obama keeps attacking and that would amount to something like 1% of our debt. It is a political ploy for people like you to feast upon and get riled up over. Why don't you go after GE who's CEO, Jeffrey Imelt, is on Obama's economic advisory committee and who's company paid no taxes on some 50 $billion$ dollars in profit last year. Obamas donor list should put a knife in your argument as to who is tied into Big Business. Worst Presidency? The current unemployment rate has not remained as high for as long since the Great Depression, Obama has lit the Middle East on fire, Obama has operated a program that weaponized the Mexican Drug Cartels and contributed to the deaths of thousands including 2 US Border agents. Obama has stopped the US missile defense systems and has given our Communist friends in Russia some top secret military info. He has given Hamas a few billion. He has sold top military equipment with technologies never before trusted to some Arabs States and stopped programs to our Ally Israel. He took the position of the Arabs against Israel in ordering Israel back to the 1967 indefensible borders. He has bowed to the Saudi King and dissed leaders from ally States like Israel and Great Britain. But his crowning achievement has to be his climbing number of rounds of golf he plays and the amount of vacays he and Moochelle go on. I think history will sort out who the worst POTUS has been but I guarantee you one thing, Carter is starting to feel some relief.

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Phoebe Hackman 2 years, 9 months ago

Lots of numbers floating around, so I thought I'd check some for myself. This is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics website. (It says it is "seasonally adjusted")

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual 2001 4.2 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.5 4.6 4.9 5.0 5.3 5.5 5.7
2002 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 6.0
2003 5.8 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.8 5.7
2004 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.4
2005 5.3 5.4 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.9
2006 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.7 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4
2007 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4 4.6 4.7 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.7 5.0
2008 5.0 4.8 5.1 4.9 5.4 5.6 5.8 6.1 6.2 6.6 6.8 7.3
2009 7.8 8.2 8.6 8.9 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.7 9.8 10.1 9.9 9.9
2010 9.7 9.7 9.7 9.8 9.6 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.6 9.7 9.8 9.4
2011 9.0 8.9 8.8 9.0 9.1 9.2

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

I don't think it's fair to blame the collapse on Obama. The jobs were already overseas, he did nothing to precipitate the foreclosures and bank collapses, and he inherited a terribly expensive war. I think he was elected largely on the premise of getting us out of that ugly war, and instead we got another one too. Just further testament to the unseen but ever-present powers of the Federal Reserve, shamelessly fattening their personal bank accounts. They get a big part of the blame, along with the labor unions, who drove all the work away in the first place.

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

Interest and inflation go hand-in-hand, and the Fed has been creating the artificial need for both since its inception in 1913, for their own profit. Labor unions and their relentless demands also drove up the cost of living. Our problems are long in the making, and since nobody has the courage to set things right, I foresee a great big collapse.

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

JFK was the last President who refused to play along with the Fed, and look what it got him.

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rhys jones 2 years, 9 months ago

Just thank God Zapruder was there, camera rolling, the first case I can recall where home video (film) clearly repudiates the government story. In one frame the blood clearly sprays out the BACK of his head -- that shot HAD to come from the front, the "grassy knoll." That was a conspiracy, sure as you are reading this. Several standard protocols were abandoned on this occasion; collusion had to occur at the highest levels. And I firmly believe that the same people responsible for that event would have no problem bombing our own World Trade Center, and covering it just as poorly. The fox is in the henhouse, my friends.

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