All quiet on pot debate in Steamboat Springs

Groups report little activity before election

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To register to vote or to become an active voter, go to www.govotecolorado.com.

Ballot questions

■ Steamboat Springs

Referendum 2C

Shall the City of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, ban, effective January 1, 2012, the cultivation, manufacture and sale of medical marijuana, including the operations of medical marijuana centers, optional premise cultivation operations, and the manufacture of medical marijuana-infused products, unless such person does so as a patient or primary caregiver as authorized by Art. XVIII, Sec. 14 of the Colorado Constitution and pursuant to regulations enacted by the City; further authorizing the City to codify this ban in the Municipal Code?

■ Routt County

Pursuant to the authority granted by C.R.S Section 12-43.3-106, shall all medical marijuana centers, optional premises cultivation operations and/or medical marijuana-infused products manufacturers’ licenses, as those terms are defined in C.R.S. Section 12-3-104, not previously prohibited by Routt County Resolution No. 2011-33 be prohibited within the unincorporated boundaries of Routt County, Colorado, effective January, 1, 2012?

— The medical marijuana debate in Steamboat Springs, which earlier this summer grew to a seemingly fever pitch, has been quiet lately.

That’s just the way Kevin Fisher wants it.

“That’s how we always inten­ded this industry to be,” said Fisher, co-owner of Rocky Mountain Remedies, Steamboat’s first medical marijuana dispensary.

The local medical marijuana businesses operated under the radar for their first 18 months after they started opening in fall 2009, but that changed last spring. Fisher and medical marijuana opponents have said advertising by Aloha’s, a medical marijuana dispensary in Milner, put the industry in the public spotlight — at least locally.

“It’s the influences outside the city in the county who put this on the forefront and put this on the front page,” Fisher said. “That’s not what this is about. It’s about safe access to physician-recommended health care. That’s what Steamboat wants. And that’s what we want to provide.”

Aloha’s owner Chris Ward couldn’t be reached for comment Friday.

Fisher has said he would organize a group to support Steamboat’s medical marijuana businesses, but right now he’s just encouraging people to register to vote.

Steamboat voters will consider Nov. 1 whether to ban medical marijuana businesses within city limits. The City Council unanimously approved putting the question to voters May 17 after a motion to simply ban the businesses without a public vote failed.

The Routt County Board of Commissioners approved a ban of future medical marijuana businesses in unincorporated areas of the county June 21. On July 21, the commissioners approved a ballot question that will let county voters decide whether to allow the continued operation of Aloha’s.

Steamboat resident Lisa Watts, one of the leaders of a medical marijuana opposition group, said the silence surrounding medical marijuana as the election nears isn’t significant.

“I don’t think it means anything other than the effort to get the issue on the ballots and in front of the voters has been accomplished,” she said. “I think people wrapping up their summers, getting kids into school, has been extremely busy. I think once we get closer to the ballot issue in November and the vote, I think things will amp up as far as community dialogue. I anticipate it will.”

Watts said she and Dr. Kelly Victory, who also helped start the opposition group, continue to meet with residents and groups in the county. She said during the next two months the group would focus on an awareness effort.

Colorado voters approved the use of marijuana for certain medical conditions with a doctor’s recommendation in 2000 by voting in favor of Amendment 20. It also was supported by a majority of county voters.

The City Council approved an ordinance in January 2010 that defined rules for the operation of medical marijuana dispensaries after three opened in 2009. Aloha’s and Mary’s, a medical marijuana dispensary in Oak Creek, opened in 2010.

The businesses continued to operate with little fanfare until last spring, when Steamboat Springs Police Capt. Joel Rae asked the City Council in April to consider a ban. Watts’ group formed in May.

Routt County Clerk and Recorder Kay Weinland said ballots would be mailed to county voters starting Oct. 11.

Weinland has said unregistered voters have until Oct. 3 to register online at www.go

votecolorado.com. Unregistered voters also have until that date to change their status. She said voters are inactive if they didn’t cast a ballot in the 2010 general election or if they have moved since then and haven’t updated their addresses.

Until the election, Fisher will continue to enjoy the silence.

“We just want to be here doing this quietly and taking care of the people who want to be taken care of,” he said.

Comments

rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Lisa's hotheads already lost once, when they tried to ramrod a local ban through City Council, who referred the issue to a vote. Register, kids.

It must be a slow news day, races departed and no major deaths to report, if the Pilot is stirring this "pot" again. Is there ANY news in this article?

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mmjPatient22 2 years, 12 months ago

Just for the sake of those that still doubt the FACTS about the medical efficacy of cannabis, here's a little educational piece brought to us by PBS in Montana. It's called "Clearing The Smoke: The Science of Cannabis." And there's not even that much for the prohibitionists to get all up in arms about because it's actually a fairly well balanced piece.

http://watch.montanapbs.org/video/1825223761

Do everyone a favor and educate yourselves on the matter before passing ignorant judgement.

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Scott Wedel 2 years, 12 months ago

If the election debate on mmj is over the medical efficacy then mmj will have won big.

I think most voters don't care if there is great evidence of the medical efficacy or not because no one is forcing medical patients to take mmj instead of other drugs.

The argument for banning mmj dispensaries is not that fail to meet some standard of proving they are medically helping people, but that the dispensaries are causing harm to the community. I see no evidence that SB voters are convinced by the mmj opponent's argument that by making mmj legal that something terrible has occurred.

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mmjPatient22 2 years, 12 months ago

Scott,

I'm usually not much of one to argue with your reasoning, nor do I intend to now. Nonetheless, I have to assert my belief that the sheer volume of anti-cannabis propaganda that initially spawned the whole cannabis prohibition movement is responsible for the amount of general ignorance on the subject. Eliminating that ignorance has been one of my top priorities on here since day one and I don't intend to sway from that any time soon. It's not that I think that my sharing of a link to a PBS video is going to change the outcome of the upcoming vote. I'm confident in the fact that there are plenty of sane people in this county who are capable of reaching a well thought-out conclusion about what their vote should be. Obviously, I have to agree with you about the lack of harm that the dispensaries are allegedly causing to the community. So much of the nay-sayer's debate has traditionally been propped up by blind assumptions, dis-information and, occasionally, flat out lies. If I can share information with people that serves to correct their ignorance of the truth, then that's what I'm gonna do. In the end, that's the best thing that we can have on our side, the truth.

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Kelly Victory 2 years, 12 months ago

Great idea MMJ patient:"Get educated before passing ignorant judgement". Here is a very recent article from a reputable medical journal -- I doubt you've read it...Those crazy, wacko, nay-sayer, uneducated folks who actually went to medical school are behind it, so it's probably a bunch of bunk, but I thought I'd let you know that it's out there:

The Latest Word on Pot and Susceptibility to Psychosis

A meta-analysis indicates a specific association between cannabis use and earlier onset of psychosis.

Marijuana evokes psychotic-like symptoms in susceptible individuals (see JW Psychiatry Mar 14 2011), and cannabis use may be associated with an earlier age of onset of psychotic illness. But does marijuana cause psychosis, or are the people who are destined to become psychotic more likely to use the drug? With more than 16 million regular pot smokers in the U.S., the question is important. This meta-analysis of 83 studies of the age at onset of psychosis involved 8167 psychosis patients who used psychoactive substances and 14,352 nonusing psychosis patients.

The results confirmed that the age at onset of psychosis was almost 3 years earlier in cannabis users than in nonusers. Alcohol use was not significantly associated with earlier onset of psychosis. Studies with a higher percentage of cannabis users reported an earlier mean age at psychosis onset. The association was not explained by sex, schizophrenia versus affective psychosis, study methodology, or, to a lesser extent, patient age at the time of the study.

Comment: Because alcohol use was not associated with a younger age at onset of psychosis, the results do not suggest that people who are going to develop psychosis just start using drugs earlier than people who are less vulnerable to psychosis. Still, it is not known whether people who would not otherwise become psychotic might develop a chronic psychosis after prolonged cannabis use, as has been noted with amphetamine use. Also unknown is whether the risk results from a primary toxic effect, from an interaction of cannabis with dopamine metabolism or with an intracellular signal, or from an effect of the drug on brain maturation in adolescents. Regardless of pathogenesis, even if a psychotic illness is to develop anyway, avoiding marijuana may delay its onset or reduce its severity.

— Steven Dubovsky, MD

Published in Journal Watch Psychiatry July 11, 2011

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freerider 2 years, 12 months ago

Dr. Victory wants you hooked on her lethal pharmaceuticals and has a personal agenda to protect profits for big pharma and selling their poison .. fear mongering only works on the ignorant doctor

Well it got George W. Bush elected so we might still be in for a battle on this one

baaaaa baaaaaa baaaaaaa !!!!

follow the money folks , 100 Billion a year wasted on the drug war

Hey Lisa

If you really wanted to help the kids don't you think that 100 billion dollars would be better spent on feeding homeless kids and on schools instead of lining the pockets of drug cartels and the DEA

Hey Lisa did you know the biggest Heroin dealer on the planet is on the payroll of the United States Government

Why do you really think we are in Afgani- scam

FOLLOW THE MONEY FOLKS !!!! THIS AIN'T BRAIN SURGERY

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freerider 2 years, 12 months ago

1Campbell

what a moron , thinks alcohol is safer than pot

I've been to about 25 alcohol related funerals dude - not one pot related funeral

I'm 56 and started smoking pot when I was 15 , I was retired 6 years ago because my stupid psychosis caused me to buy stock in Apple computers and Microsoft

yep people thought I was crazy alright buying up that there PC related investments instead of cow manure

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freerider 2 years, 12 months ago

1 Campbell

did you know that over 150 thousand people a year die from those folks that actually went to medical school from pharmaceutical drug prescription overdoses

did you know that zero people have overdosed on pot ...ever as in never ....as in it can't be done

trust me I've tried - It can't be done - I'm still here - and I ski 150 days a year and in better shape than most guys half my age... I never drink alcohol or use nicotine or take big pharma

go blow your smoke up somebody else' s rear end

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Scott Wedel 2 years, 12 months ago

mmj[atient22, Well, I suppose for the people older than 75 then the historical reasons of mj being illegal may represent most of their knowledge of mj.

But for those that were young in the sixties then they probably have personal experience with mj. They have probably used mj. They certainly have friends that used mj. So they know from personal experience that mj is not a dangerous addictive drug like heroin.

From talking with various people, most not currently using mj, the sense I get is not that MMJ has to be proven to be medically effective or even harmless to the user since alcohol is legal and certainly not harmless. One can pull out studies saying sugary drinks are unhealthy and contribute to obesity and so on for so many things. So I do not care that some study shows that mj may cause earlier onset of psychosis for a small fraction of mj users because that level of harm is certainly not worse than alcohol or tobacco.

Where it seems that dispensaries cause concern is if it is apparent that they are connected to criminal elements and/or are making it more available to kids or encouraging kids to use it.

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freerider 2 years, 12 months ago

Hey Lisa

Guess what the drug cartels spend their drug money on ??

Guns and more guns , and gang members to carry those guns and more drugs

That's it Lisa just keep on cheer leading for the drug cartels

Just Gotta keep those profits safe , you wanna be afraid of something be afraid of that

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Jeff_Kibler 2 years, 12 months ago

Sillycybin is my drug of choice. Pick your own, learn how to identify via spore printing, and you get a safe and effective 6 hour mini-vacation.

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freerider 2 years, 12 months ago

Scott

Harry J. Anslinger is the reason Marijuana is illegal - google it sometime

" It makes the darkies think that they are better than the white man "

" White women will want to seek sexual relations with black jazz musicians "

" smoking marijuana will make you want to kill your family "

it's not about protecting kids , it's about protecting profit

IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY ---- ALWAYS !!!!!!

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freerider 2 years, 12 months ago

Jeff

there is a reason Willie Nelson is still alive and all those other musicians from his time are all dead

Willie like's the magic mushroom's and weed , the dead ones liked alcohol and pills

nothing like jammin on the scrooooooms at a hippie fest

let's see now alcohol and pills are man made

weed and mushrooms are made by God - Who you gonna trust ??

Funny Americans - I just pulled out a dollar bill

it says " IN GOD WE TRUST "

Hypocrites

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Jeff_Kibler 2 years, 12 months ago

Don't forget William Randolph Hearst et al. Ban hemp because it was a cheaper alternative to paper pulp for printing newspapers.

I'm not advocating rampant use of drugs. In my experience, the most harmful substances with the most deleterious effects are (in no particular order):

Cocaine Alcohol (EtOH) Crystal Meth LSD

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seeuski 2 years, 12 months ago

I think the volatility and violent response to this article is a pretty good example of the issue of schizophrenic behavior of those who use mj. The 20 y/o's who were busted Sunday morning are another good example. Not such a peaceful drug after all. Oh the pain.

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seeuski 2 years, 12 months ago

And freerider, how about you send some of your windfall profits from the stock you purchased to the Government, are you hoarding? Jet-setter!

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mtroach 2 years, 12 months ago

jeff, why does LSD make you list? I did not find it any more dangerous than mushrooms.

I think that you need to add Heroin, Nicotiene and Rx painkillers to your list instead of LSD, all of which are far more addictive and harmful than LSD.

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Scott Wedel 2 years, 12 months ago

Freerider, Who cares what Harry J. Anslinger did to make mj illegal? That is ancient history. MJ was made illegal not that long after alcohol was also made illegal. He is not alive today trying to keep it illegal. The question now is just as alcohol Prohibition was seen as largely ineffective at stopping alcohol use, but a huge boon to organized crime, is what to do about the largely ineffective mj prohibition that is also a huge boon to organized crime.

According to a widely quoted Rand report that evaluated drugs based upon harmful short and long term effects the worst drug is heroin. Highly addictive and often deadly to the user. Second tier included alcohol, tobacco, cocaine and meth. Third tier included mj, ritalin, caffeine and mushrooms.

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steamboatsconscience 2 years, 12 months ago

"Dr" Victory a couple of questions Is your first name Kelly or Colleen? You seem to be Kelly here in Steamboat but Colleen everywhere else. Kind of strange.... You stated in a previous thread you practice in a number of other states, but only seem to be certified in Co. and Ohio. So that's not true then? Is the poster named "duster" your sock puppet or Lisa's? Exactly how many psychotic people here in Steamboat do you know who have definitively been affected adversely by smoking marijuana ? How many psychotic people ARE there in Steamboat? Should I be scared?

http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/NDARCWeb.nsf/resources/TR_18/$file/TR.121.PDF

"The prediction of the hypothesis that cannabis causes psychosis was not supported by the data on trends in the incidence of psychosis. There was no evidence that there has been an increase in the incidence of psychosis over the past thirty years of the magnitude predicted by the hypothesis. This suggests that cannabis use does not cause cases of psychosis that would not otherwise have occurred." We can all find data that fits our biases, So who is right??

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Cannabis PREVENTS psychosis, at least in my case.

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

And I started too late. I waited 'til I was 15, already half a geek.

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Kelly Victory 2 years, 12 months ago

Steamboatconscience -- My point exactly: We can all find data that fits our biases. I was only responding to MMJPatient's condescending comment "If I can share information with people that serves to correct their ignorance of the truth, then that's what I'm gonna do." The article that MMJPatient referenced is certainly no more credible than the one that I quoted, yet somehow my opinion is "propped up by blind assumptions, dis-information and, occasionally, flat out lies."
I have a difference of opinion from you and others regarding the impact of MMJ on the community and the abject abuse of the medical moniker to allow it. I happen to believe that if MMJ were actually legalized for prescription by physicians (rather than by "recommendation"), we would see a tremendous fall in inappropriate usage for the simple fact that once a physician writes a prescription, there is not only a record of it, but the physician is medically and legally liable for it. Here is just one example: A frighteningly large percentage of babies being born in Routt Country since 2009 are THC positive at birth. Many of the birth mothers site that they are "medical marijuana card holders" and that they received the "medication" under the "recommendation" of a physician. I guarantee that if those same physicians had to write an prescription for marijuana they would be a whole heck of a lot more careful to follow their patients carefully, since they know that they could be sanctioned, sued or otherwise held liable if there were a problem with the infant related to neonatal THC intoxication.
I also believe that usage of the drug by minors has increased as a result of the way certain dispensaries have marketed it. Presumably "Cotton Candy", "Lemon Drop" and "Keef Cola" aren't intended to attract patients with cachexia from end-stage cancer or those with increase intra-ocular pressure from glaucoma... Likewise, I don't think that "Pot Town USA" is the best possible nick-name for our town as we work to bring in lucrative business, conventions, etc. What is intolerable to me is that there is no hope of reasonable discussion on these issues because of the vitriole that is spewed by you and others in an attempt to defend your drug. I have no doubt that this very post will do nothing more than generate a dozen more personal attacks on me, ladened with untruths about who I am, who I represent, who I work for -- The conspiracy theory de jour is getting old. Let's just stick to the topic at hand which is whether or not we believe that the dispensaries are good for the community, and whether or not we believe that the way in which medical marijuana is currently being managed as far as physicans, dispensaries, medical records and state regulatory bodies are concerned is appropriate.

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Seeing that the Pied Piper is spouting again, I will again ask the kind "Dr." -- who is funding your drive? What specifically do you do? It ain't fixing folks, so what is it? What does "consulting" consist of, in your case? Whose pocket are you in? Really, if you are up to some innocuous, mundane task we probably wouldn't understand anyway, humor us: WHAT DO YOU DO??????

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Kind "Dr.": You are right -- it's a "smokescreen" -- a step toward full legalization -- every one of which has passed in Colorado, to date. Why should one have to be mortally afflicted to enjoy the many benefits and wonders? No other conditions qualify? It can't be used for creative purposes as well?

Take a hike. See ya at the polls.

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sledneck 2 years, 12 months ago

What kind of story was this in the first place???

There were no tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, major fires, murders, rockslides, blowdowns, bank robberies either. Why not tell us about those things NOT happening?

I really think the pile-it likes to keep this issue stirred up.

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

sled -- Right-o. See the first post in this forum.

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Puzzle for Lisa and Kelly: I followed one of the links in these forums, (which I rarely do) back when cancer was the subtopic. I was surprised to read of a scientific study which found that long-term pot smokers were 65% LESS likely to contract cancer, in ANY form, than non-tokers.

Is not an ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure? Do they have to be dying FIRST?

I won't expect an answer, any time soon, if at all. How are the cocktails?

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Melanie Turek 2 years, 12 months ago

1Campbell (are you in fact Lisa Watts?): Are you saying that YVMC routinely drug tests newborns? And what, exactly, do you mean by "frighteningly large percentage"? If the hospital tests every baby--which, btw, would be very unusual hospital protocol--what exact percentage are testing positive for MJ? Is that number actually higher than it was before the legalization of MMJ--and how do you know that? I gave birth to three kids in SS and none were tested for drugs, so the very fact that the hospital has started doing that would seem to be news (and raise all sorts of privacy issues).

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1999 2 years, 12 months ago

I agree with emlanie...I have had two kids in SS and NEVER was I or my babies tested for MJ. or any other drugs or alchohol

I do believe Mz. Watts is telling a big fat lie.

this accusation will be easy to verify.

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Kelly Victory 2 years, 12 months ago

My name is Kelly Victory, M.D. and I assure you that testing a neonate does not "raise any privacy issue". Most hospitals have a variety of protocols for testing babies born with meconium, and individual doctors are fully able to make judgement calls on a case by case basis. Marijuana usage in general, as well as during pregnancy, has escalated since the Ogden Memo was written in 2009, and correspondingly, neonatal THC exposure has escalated on a state-wide basis.

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Melanie Turek 2 years, 12 months ago

Dr. Victory: Testing a newborn does indeed raise privacy issues, since the only way he or she would test positive for drugs is if the mother ingested them, which would then invade her privacy (you can't drug test adults in America without cause, or without it being an agreed upon condition of employment, etc.). From what I've read on the issue, as a general rule newborns are tested only if they show signs of impairment caused by drugs, or if the mother is clearly high during her delivery. Are you saying the existence of meconium at birth is cause enough for drug testing? What I've read suggests merely that the meconium is a very good sample for drug testing, should such testing be required for other reasons. So again, I ask you: What percentage of babies born at YVMC are tested for drugs? What percentage of those tested test positive for MJ, and has that increased since MMJ was legalized in CO? Please link to the data. Thanks.

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Scott Wedel 2 years, 12 months ago

Well, if the new gold standard of determining public policy is anecdotal accounts then it appears that dispensaries are driving out illegal drug dealers. I own the building across the street from Mary's and when someone finds Mary's closed then often I am asked if I know where they can buy some because they no longer know of a local drug dealer.

And the young people that want to use mj do not want something like "Cotton Candy", but are more likely to want something that sounds tough and powerful. Remember, these are teenagers or older, not 7 year old girls.

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mmjPatient22 2 years, 12 months ago

"Doc"-

First of all, you obviously have no concern with reading, or even looking at, the "article" I posted originally. If you had, even if you had read my entire comment, you would have known that it wasn't a link to an article at all. It's a link to an hour long documentary. There are all sorts of former Harvard professors, doctors, and even a drug policy adviser who served under the last 3 Presidents too. But you wouldn't know that.... I guess only the most conservative and most traditional of truths can be tolerated by the likes of people on your level.

On that note, may I remind you that cannabis has been documented as having been used for medicinal purposes over the past 3,000 YEARS! Only since the advent of the cannabis prohibition in the 1930's did cannabis ever become known as "evil" or "illegal."

And since we're on the the ol' "facts & data" war-path still, I never named you in my original comment, nor was I even thinking about you when I wrote that. If your own conscience called you out on that one when you read it, then you slid that glass slipper on all by yourself. And you know what they say about properly fitting footwear, right?

One last point in closing; "Marijuana usage in general, as well as during pregnancy, has escalated since the Ogden Memo was written in 2009, and correspondingly, neonatal THC exposure has escalated on a state-wide basis." This sounds an awful lot like one of those wildly assumptive blanket statements that people with the initials "MD" after their name get to make just because they think they can back it up. Well, can you? Is there some highly regarded source that you got this information from, or....?

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

"Dr. Victory": This question bears repeating: Is that the name on your birth certificate? How cool!!

Second question begs: WHAT DO YOU DO? WHAT BRINGS YOU TO OUT FAIR VALLEY?

You raise a third: Can you provide accurate, local statistics supporting your ludicrous claims? Several people have asked you that, and all you do is yammer, no numbers.

Numbers are my life. Lies are yours.

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seeuski 2 years, 12 months ago

OK highway, is Obama's birth certificate a forgery as the experts are now coming out and saying after they closely examined and scrutinized the bogus document? Thanks for breaching the birth certificate issue, it seems you like it in attacking Dr. Victory, lets see how you like it when it relates to the POTUS you voted for. Maybe it is time to take a fresh look at the Obamacare debacle and the coming storm of what that terrible law is about to hoist on the American people? all the people.

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1999 2 years, 12 months ago

So ms vicotry..instaed of "the alarming rise in babies born high on MJ at YVM"..you are now stating that "there has been a rise in mj use in general and neonatal exposure has risen statewide"

so basically you took something that you have no facts to support ("neonatal MJ exposure has risen statewide')

and decided to say that " there has been and alarming number of babies born at YVM that are high on MJ."

you are clearly a liar. you have made up "facts" to support your claim.

so why don't you answer Hyways questions???

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Because she's an outside agitator, paid by the pharmaceuticals to spread lies, fear, misinformation, and faulty logic. Probably never worked a day in her life, she learned long ago, as did many others such as the "sustainable" crowd, how to live on bs.

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steamboatsconscience 2 years, 12 months ago

skibob What does Obama have to do with this discussion? Maybe if you would learn how to read you might get what highway said. go play with your blow up Sarah Palin doll

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jimmmmmm 2 years, 12 months ago

Be careful folks-the debate is being led into new territory by the less than 2 year part time resident, who is worried about the community. The newest argument is that newborns are testing positive at "frighteningly large percentages". Interesting angle, and probably one of many new baseless claims to come as we get closer to a vote. Hey, you know what else might be true, but maybe not, but who cares because I can say it without citing any source?

-Marijuana use among physicians has frighteningly increased in the past 2 years, according to many important people, who shall remain anonymous, but are still very important people.

-Parents actually having conversations with their kids about the dangers of substance abuse, and the importance of making good decisions, has increased exponentially.

-The percentage of people who think MJ use has exploded due to dispensaries, has increased substantially.

-The amount of tax revenue available to the city, from a previous black market industry, has increased frighteningly.

-The amount of black market dealers has decreased at a frighteningly high pace.

Oh, and by the way, Seeuski-that's just pathetic. Are you really that bored? You're still on the Orly Taitz email list?

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heboprotagonist 2 years, 12 months ago

I'm curious about whether these "good doctors" have ever actually practiced medicine- as in seen patients on a routine basis. I've certainly never seen a patient (current or former) appear on this message board in defense of either one of them.

I'm inclined to believe that unless a doctor actually sees patients, they are simply a consultant with a few extra initials after their name. Doctors always have patients in mind, while consultants keep their pocketbook at the top of their priorities.

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Well it's Happy Hour now, and the ladies are indisposed. We might hear a squawk in a while, when one is drunk.

I do find it curious, how these ladies appear out of nowhere, in the recent past, with no known ties to the community, no visible means of support, and previous pharmaceutical connections.

None of the factual questions we have posed have been addressed; instead, all we hear are more baseless claims. They pay lip service to community values, but seem most aggrieved by their perceived abuses of the system.

Sometimes I wonder, not that it matters, whether either of these ladies has children needing attention. Probably not, as then they might have a real life, and they could quit worrying about everybody else's. Probably had trouble finding donors.

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mmjPatient22 2 years, 12 months ago

I'm sure that we've all offended her(their) itty-bitty feelings too much, or we're all just so impossible to debate with that we're just not worth her(their) effort or time anymore.

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1999 2 years, 12 months ago

well it hard for them to continue to lie in public when they have been called on those lies.

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1999 2 years, 12 months ago

well it hard for them to continue to lie in public when they have been called on those lies.

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rhys jones 2 years, 12 months ago

Okay, Pilot, you got us talking again. And I'd like to remind a couple of ladies we are still awaiting responses to a number of questions, all of a very rational nature.

Hit-and-run seems to be the strategy, retreating to regroup and formulate a new attack. I can hardly wait to hear the next round, and all are assured none of our questions will be answered then either.

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mmjPatient22 2 years, 12 months ago

Do the folks at the Pilot(or maybe just Jack Weinstein) now understand why the "pot debate" goes so quiet from time to time? It seems as though the other side needs more and more time to reload their talking points on the subject.

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greenwash 2 years, 11 months ago

Hmmm Im trying to figure whats worse a 5th of vodka , a bottle of wine, a couple vicadin or a joint ?

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rhys jones 2 years, 11 months ago

I'd recommend mixing them all, for maximum effect. Wow, greenie lives right!!

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Phoebe Hackman 2 years, 11 months ago

From the Encyclopedia of Mental Disorders (minddisorders.com): Some medications that may induce psychosis include "anesthetics and analgesics, anticholinergic agents, anticonvulsants, antihistamines, antihypertensive and cardiovascular medications, antimicrobial medications, antiparkinsonian medications, chemotherapeutic agents, corticosteroids, gastrointestinal medications, muscle relaxants, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medications, other over-the-counter medications, antidepressant medications, and disulfiram ." Ever prescribe any of these drugs to a patient, "Dr." Victory? And would you believe ... one has to have actually gone to medical school to prescribe most of these.

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Jeff_Kibler 2 years, 11 months ago

roach, I said "In my experience." Your experiences are most likely different. I didn't include X or PCP either.

I saw really crazy behavior from folks on acid. I've talked-down more than a few having bad trips. Some did silly things like dancing naked in traffic. I know of a few that ended up in mental wards, but perhaps they were marginal to begin with.

Yet I know of nobody that jumped off a ninth story dorm balcony while on shrooms. A close high school friend did that sophomore year of college. That's why I included LSD.

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