Jail time dealt in alcohol crimes in Steamboat

Graves and Atkinson sentenced this week

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Courtesy photo

Nancy Graves

— Nancy Graves, the Routt County woman who pleaded no contest after she struck Steamboat Springs resident William “Rick” Hagberg with her car in February, was sentenced Friday morning to 60 days in jail.

She also was ordered to pay $30,000 in restitution and $3,895.20 in fines and costs, and to complete 64 hours of community service within a year. She was given three days’ credit for time served before the sentence.

Graves, 68, pleaded no contest to vehicular assault, a Class 4 felony, and driving while ability impaired, a misdemeanor. As part of a plea agreement, the felony judgment was deferred for three years, but she was sentenced to 60 days on each count, set to run at the same time. Graves checked into the Routt County Jail on Friday.

Routt County Deputy District Attorney Rusty Prindle said Graves paid the full amount of the restitution at the time of her sentencing. Prindle said Hag­­berg still suffers major effects from the crash. He is using crutches and has limited use of one arm, Prindle said, and he likely will be in treatment for some time.

“I think given the circumstances and the facts of the case, I think it was a fair and reasonable disposition,” he said.

Graves also will have to complete an alcohol education course as part of her one-year probation.

Graves was driving west on U.S. Highway 40 on Feb. 5 when she struck Hagberg as he crossed the highway on the east side of Steamboat Springs. Hagberg was reportedly thrown 83 feet from the impact and was airlifted to Denver Health. He since has returned to Steamboat, Prindle said.

Alcohol to minors

Steamboat man Ryan Atkin­son, 26, also was sentenced this week to one year in jail and three years of probation after pleading guilty to contributing to the delinquency of a minor and providing alcohol to a minor.

Atkinson reportedly provided alcohol to a group of minors including four who were younger than 18 at a Jan. 10 party on Routt County Road 14B. During the party, a 17-year-old girl fell backward over a second-story balcony railing onto snow-covered concrete below.

The girl reportedly had a blood alcohol level of 0.286, more than three times the legal limit to drive, which is 0.08. The girl was taken to Yampa Valley Medical Center and later flown by air ambulance to a Denver-area hospital, where she was in a coma for some time.

Prindle reported that the girl has made significant improvements, and decisions about asking for restitution are not yet finalized. The DA’s office has 90 days to make the decision, according to state statute.

As part of the plea agreement, judgment on the felony was deferred for three years with three years of probation, but Atkinson will spend a year in jail on the misdemeanor charge.

He also was ordered to pay fines and make a $750 donation to Grand Futures of Routt County, and to complete 150 hours of community service. Atkinson checked into Routt County Jail on Thursday to begin his sentence.

Comments

freerider 3 years, 11 months ago

hey pilot ....well just reporting the dirty laundry again I see ....what's up with Rick ?????

I guess reporting a jail sentence is more news worthy than the victims condition ya ??

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

I ment to ask -does anyone know how Rick is doing?

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beentheredonethat 3 years, 11 months ago

if you guys are so concerned with his welfare, how about picking up the phone and asking him yourselves!!!

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freerider 3 years, 11 months ago

beenthere , I have called ... I guess the pilot hasn't... your missing point . WTF this is about . Zero news about Rick .... geeez some people are so cluless so let me explain this to you . The pilot feels that posting a story and photo of the perp and the court news is more important than the guy she ran over ....duh hello anybody home ....I guess not

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

Thanks for the update on Rick. It's good to hear that he is doing alot better.
beentheredonethat- now you know ,along with the rest of the community, how he is doing without imposing on is family.

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aichempty 3 years, 11 months ago

Finally, some appropriate sentences for people who have harmed others.

Who was the judge? Why no names? That's usually the lead. Give us the opportunity to give them credit when they do something right that actually improves our community.

Good job Mr. Pringle.

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

Aich, Did you get a chance to attend the recent "firing squad" execution, here in the USA? You should schedule your vacations around these events. It might take the "edge" off for you.

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aichempty 3 years, 11 months ago

Oops, I meant Mr. Prindle. No disrespect intended.

ftp,

Firing squads are too good. Work camps where all the money they earn goes to the victims would be a much better choice.

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

As a parent of a minor..... I feel that NOT giving a few MIP tickets is wrong. It isn't just the giving of booze... there is a reason that young'un are not walking into the bars and beer stores, aahhhhhhhhhhhhh, they know thay are not of age. Give these kids a harder time and make them responsible. I feel deeply for those who have been hurt. But a bit of "I kicked the law, and the law won" is not a good idea. Why only the folks of age? Make an example and I am willing to bet that the under age kids MAY think twice. Dont let them off so easy. The "kids" are not that dumb. make them as accountable for stuff as those over 21......... As cold hearted as this may sound, 17 yr old knows that....if they have to have someone else buy for them, then there may be reason, and if they choose that option. then man up and face the facts. As difficult as it may be. the younger the better. ok....tell me I am wrong. GO FOR IT.

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

bandmama, you're statement is completely foolish. having raised 2 kids through those wonder years I could not disagree more! Kids will find a way! Education is the answer! I hope that you have had a chat with your teenage daughter and she knows to STAY AWAY from the dirtbag 26 year old male providing her liquor!! Parents get a clue and teach your children!!!!

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

jk, you can teach until you are blue in the face but there is nothing like an MIP to REALLY drive the point home.

you think kids don't KNOW not to drink underage? of course they do.

the cops need to hand out MORE MIPS

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aichempty 3 years, 11 months ago

The kid who died from drinking too much in my neighborhood had all the education and warnings and all that crap that anybody can have. When people drink, they lose the ability to make sound judgments, and that's why they get hurt. Adults get hurt, and hurt others. Teenagers cannot be trusted to have judgment anyway (although some do) and putting booze on top of that is a recipe for disaster we see over and over around here.

The only reason to let an adult stay out on probation is if they have a job, and people to support, and the ability to pay restitution while serving their time. Otherwise, they become a burden on society, and we don't need any more of that.

MIPs with teeth are needed. People will tell you that there's no reason to ruin a kid's life over a drink of alcohol, but when kids are dying of it, what's the alternative?

How about asking the judges who hear these cases to visit the high schools and tell the kids, "no more." Fair warning. It's time.

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

jk.no kidding, I speak very openly with my son about underage drinking, I also tell him that if he is foolish and stupid enough to go ahead and do it, then no, I will not help get him out of jail free. I will personally ask that he be punished to the fullest. He isn't dumb, is aware it is against the law and I expect him to be responsible. As far as scumbag 26 yr olds? What about every other kiddo that was there. It wasn't only the 26 yr old involved, was it? I am willing to bet no one poured it down anyones throat. And I dont recall any charges stemming from "inappropriate scumbag advances", just the happy juice being handed out. Was there something we missed?

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

No JK...not joking.

I can gaurantee that if MIPs were handed out at every offense...the offences would diminish.

it's an odd stand that you take.

let the kids drink illegally and just turn our backs?

th kids drinking are MORE responsible for their own actions than the people who buy them booze.

you think every kid out there doesn't know underage drinking is illegal?

really?

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

bandmama,"He remained in Jail today on three counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and three counts of intimidation of a witness. The charges for witness intimidation stem from conversations and text messages Atkinson reportedly had with people who were at the party where he told them to lie to investigators." This guy seems like a scumbag to me, serving liqour to 7 kids underage, 4 of which were under 18, with underage girls involved! Now If that's not a scumbag I am fearful of what is in your world!! Yea maybe he deserves a break while we punish the kids who were there with mip's, after all he only brought all of the liquor to the party(as you always say I hope you can see the sarcasm here). Please give me a flippin' break!!!!! If he hadn't of brought the liquor to the show, there would have been no show!!!!

1999, that's not what I'm saying at all, as I said before talk to your kids about what's right and wrong. Yes they will make bad choices along the way, I'm not saying they won't, but if you have an open line of communication with them it will surely help. And sorry but if nobody provides the alcohol then their not gonna be drinking. I am guessing all of this is wasted on you anyway, cause I bet you have never had any kids.

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

jk- sounds like you may have inside info that we were not aware of.. be careful of your quotes. So at 26 you had you had all of the wisdom you you have "today" ?. Nope...., I dont either. BUT, I can say that if I had been held accountable for acts in my youth... I may not have made mistakes that have "put me in my place" at this point in my life. With youth comes ignorance and if more "grown ups" had been tougher with me, instead of talking to me, and trying to be "my friend", then I may have been a lot better off and a little more..."choice' in my influences. Being a "grown up" now, I realize how ignorant people like you were, who were REALLY trying to help me,it didn't help. But made me find ways of "getting around the situation". This is why I say to pull the MIP card at every chance. Put names in the paper. Put on record that someone messes up...you may be a minor, but what you do will come back on you. I for one do NOT want to give my kid a chance to say to me someday..."but it was ok at the time". Nope, you screw up, you know it is wrong, here is what you will have to deal with for a really long time. Anything else is being dishonest. I dont think that is right either. You sound like a caring parent, think of it like this, your kid keeps touching the stove, not realizing the burn they would get if they go to far. One time, you put your hand under that little hand and let them feel a little heat, MOST kids wont touch the burner again. Teach, don't preach.

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

bandmama, It is amazing how you call me ingnorant, yet you contradict yourself throughout your own post. Just so you know my source of info was a story from the Pilot. Nowhere did I say I talked to my kids or was trying to be their friend!! I said I tried to teach them right and wrong as they grew. That didn't always mean a pleasant chat believe me! Maybe if your parents had done the same it would have kept you out of a little trouble. In my experience it is better for police to work with kids than to just slap them with an MIP. Since most parents won't take responsibility for their childrens actions these days, maybe it will be the hand they need.

p,s.both my kids have touched the burner at times, for the most part it seems as though they realize the other way is easier, but I as well as you can only hope the lessons we instill in them take hold. Good Luck!

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mtroach 3 years, 11 months ago

One thing that bothers me is that once Graves serves her 60 days she'll be back out on the roads. Driving rights should be revoked if you drink and drive and almost kill someone.

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

jk-thanks for the good luck wish. My youngun is darn close to 18 and we have no trouble from him at all, he is a super kid. As far a police chatting with kids? Open lines of communication are a good thing, but more often than not, it allows kids to think they are getting out of due punishment. If MIP's are so rarely handed out, what is the point?

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

Doesn't the State Motor Vehicle Dept. automatically pull your license if your convicetd? I don't believe Nancy had a previous criminal record. This has to be a totaly humiliating experience for her. Keep in mind it was an accident. It is so horrible that Rick and his family have to suffered.

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

If MIP's are so rarely handed out my grandson and all his buddies must of been the exception to the rule. I'll bet each one of them had at least two apiece. They had to appear, both times, at the county court. The judge wasn't impressed with them at all. Their drivers licenses were suspended for six months. The lack of transportation really impaired their social life. They had fees to pay and community service.Those MIP's really did their job. I don't think their names can be put into the paper because their minors.

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

ftp- do you feel that by being handed those MIP's acted as a....warning??? Did those MIP's do those kiddos any good as far as choices? I think that by being held responsible, one may not make as many poor choices. Trust me, if I had the swats for skipping school, that I deserved, I may not have skipped as much. Etc..la dee dee daaa, there were no repercussions. My kid knows that if he messes up I am NOT going to let him off easy. So far at nearly 18, he hasn't screwed up. May just be a super smart individual, OR he knows that his actions will will not be tolerated if he makes a poor choice. And he is pretty much aware of what "poor choices" are. Hmmmm.....If he is being a dumba$$, I have NO problem, in a nice sort of way, of telling him. So far it has led to talking, and having a pretty good line of communication. As odd as it sounds, nothing makes me feel better as a parent than to hear him say to his friends, "Mom and Dad will kick my butt if I do THAT "....at almost 18!???. Even IF he doesn't know we are listening. He does know.... I am wetting myself waiting for some to respond. HA!

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

The power these MIP's had over these young men really woke them up. It took their money, they had earned, away from them. ( just like real life!) It demanded their compliance with attending their scheduled court date. For a couple of these men I'm sure that's the first time they were ever on time! They waited at one of their court appearances for over four hours. The judge knew they were there. He was just trying to make a lasting impression. They figured that out after awhile and quit moaning. He got their attention and their respect. Community service was unpaid work and they resented it. The MIP's did their job!

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dave reynolds 3 years, 11 months ago

if you really want to drive MIP home..how's this a teenagers social life is in full gear when they get the privilege to drive so if busted on MIP..you can not apply for a drivers license until you are 25..if you comply with your fines and penalies then you can receive a learners permit after you retake the drivers test at age 20..

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dave reynolds 3 years, 11 months ago

Good for you bandmama I bet our kids are about the same age she is 16..she hates liquor and drugs..we keep her occupied with community,athletics and family..God bless you for teaching your Son accountability responsibility and integrity...but hey thats what we do..

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

Thanks paddle and ftp. GREAT idea with the license. Would certainly add a little more to think about before asking someone to buy! I honestly can't say that my kiddo have never tasted beer. But the resulting actions of his being a dumba$$ have been throughly discussed and he knows that his father and I will be first in line to see him get what is coming to him. Never underestimate a kid, they are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Respect that and treat them as such. ftp- just curious, who was the judge who made the MIP's wait? He deserves a thank you for making it HARD for them! I will say this though, if at 18, our kids can be asked to go serve and lay down thier lives for our right to have a beer I have no problem sharing one with my son at 18. (and no, I would never serve anyone elses kid!)

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

Paddle, your idea involving the drivers license seems a bit excessive and in my opinion wouldn't get to the heart of the problem. How about the parents of the children involved having to attend court, and perform the community service right alongside of their child. I know growing up, if I had to watch my Mom perform 60hrs of community service with me, it would have definately deterred me from a second offense. Not to mention this will help get the parents in touch with their children and what they are doing!

band, I hope you have knocked on wood several times after stating these comments about your son. lol And as far as your last comment, it seems to me if you can vote and lay down your life for your country, you should be able to go get your own beer.

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John Fielding 3 years, 11 months ago

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The human brain continues to grow until about age 25. During this period conditioning for habituation is easily accomplished. Few who wait till then to indulge in activities such as consumption of alcohol or other pleasure producing drugs will become abusers.

If you would do well by your children teach them this fact and help them restrain themselves.

.

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

So John, they can be habitually thrust into the position to kill people to save their own life, yet they can't make their own decision on weather or not to have an alcoholic beverage??

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

Mama, It was a county judge, here in Steamboat. I don't know his name. It was a-while ago. I'm old you know!

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

Jk...I am flabbergasted by your laxidasical (sp...but I like that word) attitude.

I do have kids.

I talk to them all the time about drugs and alchohol and sexting and sex and sugar and high fructose corn syrup and trans fats etc etc etc.

they KNOW UNDERAGE DRINKING IS ILLEGAL.

If they ever get caught doing it I want them to get am MIP>

I want them to learn a lesson.

KIDS KNOW DRINKING IS AGAINST THE LAW>

what could a parent add to that that would trump an MIP?

jk are you arguing the age limit for drinking or the effectiveness of MIP

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

1999.sexting, sugar, high fructose corn syrup, what are your kids 10 and 6? Look me up when they start going through some real issues ok! No I don't have a lackadaisical attitude towards this issue at all, I just happen to believe that MIPs are not the answer, and proper parenting is! Good luck raising your kids if you can't figure out what I'm arguing. And just curious it's ok if they never get caught? Sounds like you are headed down the wrong path already.Again Good Luck!

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ftpheide 3 years, 11 months ago

Mama, Did you talk to your son about sexting? Did you talk to your husband about that?

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dave reynolds 3 years, 11 months ago

jk..may seem a little harsh but i do think it would make them think twice we can add your suggestions too. I drank when I was under age never got caught so I guess I'm a bit of a hipocrit..In Montana I went through the whole range. of laws..1st you could drink at 18,then they changed it to 19 then 20 and finally 21.Things are alot different now than when I was young...my daughter hates alcohol and drugs so far so good..I drank alot but am now 70 days sober so I can set an example for her...remember the scare tactics used in Drivers Ed back then..gore pics of people involved in accidents due to speeding careless driving and of course drunk driving it didn't stop me..so maybe the answer is both education and harsh penalties ..we need to teach them it isnt a game it is a matter of life and death but when i was young i thought i was invincible

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

paddle, congrats on your sobriety, I'm sure it is setting an example. Yes I remember those Drivers Ed tactics back in the day and they had little effect on me as I felt I was invincible also. My fear was instilled by my mother, and the knowledge that if I screwed up there would be hell to pay and life would get miserable! I also appreciated ,and thus respected, a few police officers who gave me a break here and there. I guess those were different times though! Wow I feel old all of a sudden!! lol

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

okay JK...now you are acting like an idiot.

my joke about high fructose coen syrup was a joke. good lord.

the truth is I'am an excellent parent. I don't understand why a parent that expects his children to abide by the law is a bad parent?

as I said I teach my children...they now the legailties and potential harm.

if they chose to break the law they should pay.

seriously....you are acting like an idiot.

good parenting teaches responsibily for actions....YES?

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

so good parenting = turning a blind eye to kids who drink illegally Really??????

I think you are the one who is probaly a very permissive parent.

not doing them any good

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

paddle-congrats on the 70 days! Good for you!!!! jk- why should the parents pay for something that OLDER teenage kids do? If they were brainless enough to drink underage behind our backs, then I seriously doubt having me do comm service would be that bad...for them! LOL! Now, a YOUNGER kiddo? YUP, I think parents need to be responsible, but then we get into that shady area of deciding at what age are they "young" enough and "old" enough. And I really dont have to knock on wood, my son sat with me last night (and does many other evenings) and read while I was posting. We really do speak, and talk and listen to each other and we always have. I consider myself a really lucky mom for that. ftp- you are a smart a$$, LOL!!!! I dont think I need to say to much to the younger one and after so many years if the older one wants to sext ME, I have no issues with that!!!!!!!!

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

1999, "If they ever get caught doing it I want them to get am MIP>" your words not mine. So by this sentence I'm lead to believe that you are teaching them it's ok as long as they don't get caught! Brilliant parenting, and I'm the idiot here. I'm still trying to find where I said this "parenting = turning a blind eye to kids who drink illegally"? As I said before Good Luck!

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

what the hell????

D00d...I have written that I teach and teach and teach and if they are ever caught drinking under age (as that is the only way to get an MIP....by being caught a charged by the police.)..I want them to get an MIP.

why are you trying to twist my words????

you are also talking out of bith sides of your mouth.

you said your mom did a great job and you knew the consequences of underage drinking. sounds dire right?

but then you go onto say you were caught and some nice police man let you go...not once but "here and there" . so where was your moms "hell to pay"

so how good really was teaching only???

I would bet an MIP after your first offense would have curbed your underage drinking.

why should kids not be held responsible for their actions?

funny...I also knew there was hell to pay and legal consequences to my actions and I have NEVER been any where a police station, police car or involved in anything that the police were called to.

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

band, you make good points, but in my opinion if your old enough to vote,die, and take another persons life for your country, you should also be able to buy your own beer. So I think maybe my bar is set a little lower than yours as to when an MIP should be handed out in the first place. All that being said I was just trying to "drive home" the parental involvement issue that I feel is lacking in this day and age. I'm happy for your relationship with your son it sounds like you have done well! Good luck with the sexting between you and your hubby. I hope it doesn't get you in any trouble! lol

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

1999, I believe the word you're looking for is dude! Hey and I'm just going by what you are telling me, I never said my mom did a great job, I said there would be hell to pay if I got into trouble. And yes I learned my lesson about underage drinking because of a few compassionate cops that gave a kid a break. Just wait you will learn about teenagers and their rebellion. By the way I have never seen the inside of a police station either, and hope I never do.

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1999 3 years, 11 months ago

interesting thought process................... BAHAHAHA

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theDustyone 3 years, 11 months ago

How did this turn into a shouting match over who's the better parent? All parents have different methods and that doesn't mean that one way is better than another. What do you say about a family that has several kids and one seems to be a devil child, and the other an angel? They've both got the same parents right? I beleive that yes parents do have a responsibility to talk to there kids and make them understand the reasons why they should or shouldn't do certain activities. But what I think is even more effective than that is making absolute sure that if your kid is going to experiment (as 99% of them do) that they do it in a safe setting and are smart about it. But as much as parents want to believe that they are responsible for their kids actions, that idea is only true up to a certain age. What is true is that parents do help their kids establish their morals and give them their basic ideas of what is right and what is wrong. What is ok, and what is too risky. But aside from that I think the kids acquaintances and the people they surround themself with are more responsible for the decisions they make and the type of behaviors they partake in. This is especially true when the kids get older and being accepted by their peers becomes especially important to Kids. And the last part of the equation that I haven't heard anybody address is the pure luck (or unlucky) factor. What I mean by this is you can have one kid who is an absolute deviant who drinks all the time, does drugs, and partakes in all sorts of risky behaviour. But for some reason never gets caught and never gets hurt. Then you've got the little angel who has never touched any drugs or alcohol and is a straight A student and does everything by the book. But of course the one time she decides to experiment and has a few drinks with some friends and then slips on her steps and falls and hits her head (this is hypothetical I am not referring to the article). And whether or not the alcohol was the actual cause of her slipping and falling, it's going to be named as the cause and chances are word is going to get out about the little angel's accident and that alcohol was involved. Now all of a sudden parents around the community are going to view this girl as a bad kid who drinks alcohol and so she paid the price. Whereas the other kid that I mentioned that for some reason has never gotten hurt or caught despite the fact that he/she constantly drinks, is probably still seen as an angel in their parents eyes because they are never the wiser. So that is what I mean about the luck factor. And even though I know there are many other factors that I could talk about also that go into how teen alcohol and drug situations unfold, I think my point is clear that it's not just one reason or another why kids drink or do drugs. And usually there's a lot more to the story if someone ends up getting injured or caught by law enforcement.

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theDustyone 3 years, 11 months ago

How did this turn into a shouting match over who's the better parent? All parents have different methods and that doesn't mean that one way is better than another. What do you say about a family that has several kids and one seems to be a devil child, and the other an angel? They've both got the same parents right? I beleive that yes parents do have a responsibility to talk to there kids and make them understand the reasons why they should or shouldn't do certain activities. But what I think is even more effective than that is making absolute sure that if your kid is going to experiment (as 99% of them do) that they do it in a safe setting and are smart about it. But as much as parents want to believe that they are responsible for their kids actions, that idea is only true up to a certain age. What is true is that parents do help their kids establish their morals and give them their basic ideas of what is right and what is wrong. What is ok, and what is too risky. But aside from that I think the kids acquaintances and the people they surround themself with are more responsible for the decisions they make and the type of behaviors they partake in. This is especially true when the kids get older and being accepted by their peers becomes especially important to Kids. And the last part of the equation that I haven't heard anybody address is the pure luck (or unlucky) factor. What I mean by this is you can have one kid who is an absolute deviant who drinks all the time, does drugs, and partakes in all sorts of risky behaviour. But for some reason never gets caught and never gets hurt. Then you've got the little angel who has never touched any drugs or alcohol and is a straight A student and does everything by the book. But of course the one time she decides to experiment and has a few drinks with some friends and then slips on her steps and falls and hits her head (this is hypothetical I am not referring to the article). And whether or not the alcohol was the actual cause of her slipping and falling, it's going to be named as the cause and chances are word is going to get out about the little angel's accident and that alcohol was involved. Now all of a sudden parents around the community are going to view this girl as a bad kid who drinks alcohol and so she paid the price. Whereas the other kid that I mentioned that for some reason has never gotten hurt or caught despite the fact that he/she constantly drinks, is probably still seen as an angel in their parents eyes because they are never the wiser. So that is what I mean about the luck factor. And even though I know there are many other factors that I could talk about also that go into how teen alcohol and drug situations unfold, I think my point is clear that it's not just one reason or another why kids drink or do drugs. And usually there's a lot more to the story if someone ends up getting injured or caught.

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theDustyone 3 years, 11 months ago

ooops sorry it said it didn't post the first time.... my bad

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jk 3 years, 11 months ago

Hear hear Dusty, thus the reason I wished luck upon my fellow posters!

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

Dusty, very good points, and I have not re-read all posts but I dont recall anyone saying that that the young lady was a bad kid. You are right, kids do experiment, why instead of doing nothing but talking, as asults we need to listen and actually hear what our kids are saying and adjust our influences as needed. And yes, it is not only the parents who make a difference in the choices they make. It sounds like you also maybe had someone besides parents who made that differnce in your life. I was very fortunate to have a few of those folks who reached out to me when my parental units were not....parenting. My mother would never admit that I did anything out of line as she saw this as a poor reflection on her. It was other adults who sat me down and told me to man up and face responsibility for my actions. If I had NOT been made to face that music, my life would have been a lot more messed up than it was at that time. Why I strongly feel that MIP's, and other actions should be dealt with to the max, before the younguns are adults and maybe have to do REAL time, and mess up thier chances for the rest of thier lives. This isn't really a shouting match, but a good insight for all parents to see other points of views on how to do better by our kids. No one view is perfect as you pointed out. jk- thanks, for the good luck wish, as I said it was IF he did.....LOL!!! As far as the "of age" question, we should either raise the age of enlistment to 21, or lower the drinking age to 18. Thanks for understanding my point, if a "kid" is asked to make the decision to die for me, then they should be given the respect to make a choice of drinking a beer with me, without being a "criminal".for doing so. (and no, I dont think it should go any lower than 18!)

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John Fielding 3 years, 11 months ago

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JK, I agree, lets standardize the legal age for drinking, military service and voting at 25, when choices are far more likely to have mature consideration as a factor.

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bandmama 3 years, 11 months ago

john- while I agree, how many do you think would sign up at the age of 25, when the brain finally kicks in? Seriously? I dont think as many would, sort of a catch 22 there. If you get them young enough the brainwashing isn't so hard. If you wait till they can make a mature, thought out choice, not many would care to.

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