The Jail Report for Oct. 30 to Nov. 5

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Saturday, Oct. 30

Frederick Arthur Erb, 62, Steamboat Springs — Driving under the influence, no headlights, failed to signal (Colorado State Patrol)

Douglas Elliot Nugent, 31, Steamboat — Violating bond conditions (Steamboat Springs Police Department)

Aaron Michael Gilbreath, 20, Oak Creek — Driving under the influence of drugs, passing on the right (CSP)

Kyle Joseph Milne, 50, Steamboat — DUID, driving under restraint, possession of marijuana, failure to use signal (CSP)

Sunday, Oct. 31

Andrew James Ehrnst, 28, Steamboat — Second-degree assault (SSPD)

Jesse Alan Teague, 30, Steamboat — DUI, no proof of insurance, expired plates, failure to yield (CSP)

Devin Paul Stanley, 19, Steamboat — DUI, failure to obey signal, minor in possession, possession of marijuana, possession of drug paraphernalia (CSP)

Justin Wayne Snyder, 25, Steamboat — Two counts of harassment (SSPD)

Travis Rex McNeil, 22, Boulder — Five counts of identity theft, theft, DUI, drove with parking lights when headlights were required, fictitious plates, operating an uninsured motor vehicle (CSP, SSPD)

Vincent Eric Ferenczy, 22, Steamboat — Harassment (SSPD)

Zachary Tarin Wilcox, 21, Steamboat — Violating a protective order (SSPD)

Jeffrey Ray Holden, 24, Steamboat — Violating bond conditions (SSPD)

Sarah Dawn Vice, 24, Steamboat — Third-degree assault (SSPD)

Monday, Nov. 1

Nathan Lowell Antell, 24, Steamboat — DUI, failure to display headlamps, possession of less than 2 ounces of marijuana, careless driving (SSPD)

Jessica Iveth Carrillo, 25, Westminster — Fugitive of justice (civil credit) (Routt County Sheriff’s Office)

David Lawrence Betz, 57, Steamboat — DUI, speeding, changing lanes while unsafe (RCSO)

Tuesday, Nov. 2

Shannon Lynn Newby, 31, Steamboat — DUI, DUI per se, speeding, open container (SSPD)

Zackary J. Wheelock, 24, Hayden — DUI, DUI per se, weaving, expired plates (RCSO)

Wednesday, Nov. 3

Bryan Allen Young, 33, Steamboat — Third-degree assault, third-degree trespassing, warrant (SSPD)

Peter Logan Laskarin, 37, Steamboat — Prohibited use of a weapon, disorderly conduct (SSPD)

Jesus Manuel Valdez, 20, Craig — Fugitive of justice (traffic violation) (RCSO)

Margaret Ann Courtney, 32, Oak Creek — Fugitive of justice (obstruction of a telephone service in Denver) (RCSO)

William Curtis Puryear, 38, Steamboat — Driving under the influence of drugs, possession of marijuana, failure to stop at a stop sign (CSP)

Thursday, Nov. 4

Cesar Cruz, 36, Steamboat — Driving while ability impaired, failure to dim lights (CSP)

Friday, Nov. 5

Connor James Klingensmith, 20, Steamboat — DUID, speeding, no proof of insurance (CSP)

Matthew William Dunlap, 22, Steamboat — DUID, possession of marijuana, possession of drug paraphernalia (CSP)

Garrett Anthony Lockwood, 18, Thornton — DUID, speeding, possession of drug paraphernalia (CSP)

Comments

exduffer 4 years, 1 month ago

I hate to citicize law enforcement but now I see why CSP did not notice an abandoned car on Rabbit Ears

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

***NEWSFLASH***** Dear Taxpayers, Above you will find many examples of "possesion of paraphernalia" and "possession of marijuana" by many of our fine outstanding members of our community.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE!!!!!! Your paid CSP lawenforcement officers have WAGED WAR on the citizens of our community. This WAR that is going on is on LEGAL MEDICAL MARIJUANA is costing YOU the taxpayers thousands of dollars a week. The fact is that if you go to the Routt County Courthouse and look at the docket you will find 90% are thrown out berfore court. THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A WEEK WASTED BY THE COLORADO STATE PATROL WAGING WAR ON YOU THE CITIZENS!

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hereandthere 4 years, 1 month ago

Here's an idea, how about not driving when under the influence. Dumb!

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sledneck 4 years, 1 month ago

Let's not confuse the right to drink and smoke freely with the IMAGINARY right to get on the same road as my / our friends and family and potentially kill someone.

I have no sympathy for any of us who are foolish enough to DUI.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

I DON'T SUPPORT DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ANYTHING! Lets get that straigt right off the bat!

FACT#1 Smoking or ingesting MMJ legal or not will in most cases stay within the body for up to 28 days depending on a few circumstances. (i.e body mass and weight) The fact that a person has MMJ in there vehichle is by no means makes them intoxicated. (YES SOME OF YOU ARE SO SCARED OF IT THAT YOU WOULD BELIVE THAT ANYWAY)

2 A person who smokes mmj in the evening and sleeps it off is NOT intoxicated the next day. ( THEY ARE ALSO NOT A COMMUNIST BEFORE, DURING, OR AFTER)

3 LOOK! JUST LOOK AT THE REPORT AGIAN!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Why is it that the CSP is the only local law enforcement that is capable of DUID? Why is all but 1 arrest by a RSCO or a SSPD for other things besided MMJ? Now i know alot of SSPD personally and RSCO. These guys are not dumb! These guys have great knowledge of what is going on. Plus in Steamboat there is 3 despensaries so MMJ is more prevalent right?

The CSP is waging a WAR on LEGAL MEDICAL MMJ! LOOK AT THE WASTE OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS!

How come the SSPD and RSCO dont have more? WHY?

SHAME ON YOU CSP! RUINING LIVES TO SUPPORT YOUR EXISTENCE! WASTING TAX DOLLARS. SHAME ON YOU!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

SHOCKER#3

Not everyone who smokes pot both legal and illeagally drive under the influence of pot.

Not everyone who drinks legal booze drives sober.

HELLO!!!!

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exduffer 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck, I take it you made the celebrity pages.

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runnerbikerdriver44 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck-you know that each one of those people had MMJ in their car, and it was obtained legally? Wow! That's impressive!

And CSP is doing their job; not really sure how that makes it a waste of taxpayers dollars....

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

Thank you, Muck, for bringing this to the attention of the public. I am aware of numerous incidents where the CSP in Routt County has unlawfully arrested people for DUID when this was NOT the case. One trooper in particular, Trooper Hilling, is the sole person responsible for these arrests. He is the "Marijuana Intoxication Specialst" supposedly. If your eyes are bloodshot, you have a Bob Marley sticker on your car, or you are nervous when he pulls you over....you are "high" in his book. Granted, we don't know the situation in all the above arrests, and if the people or patients were driving around with marijuana & smoking paraphernalia than they are asking for trouble from any form of law enforcement. But, the reason Muck is so fired up, is because these HAVE been numerous incidents recently where people have been giving DUID's by Trooper Hilling and they were not, in fact, driving intoxicated. Troopers like, Mr. Hilling, DO reek havoc on the lives of law abiding citizens in our town weekly, because they know they have the power. It becomes your word against his, and if you refuse the blood test at the scene, you lose you license for a year. So, you tell me who's do their job.

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

Sorry for all the typos above..... I am not a master speller, nor a pro at grammar, but I will intelligently argue the truth with anybody. I stand up for what is right. Law Enforcement are MORALLY sworn to up hold the law, serve and protect US. Not attack us and single us certain ones of us. This Trooper manipulates people and abuses his power. Discrimination starts in the minds of people and it's about time people stopped discriminating against those of us who use marijuana. How childish. Trooper Hilling is digging a hole right to court, because one day someone will have the money to personally take him to court for his untruthful actions. Law-abiding citizens don't need or want a meathead, power-hungry cop free to act as he please in their community. It's about time we stood up to this guy and complain enough to the CSP Headquarters that they at least transfer his ass somewhere else in the State. He is not helping here. Even people who don't use marijuana would be disgusted and appalled at some of the ways this Trooper acts.

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

The urine test for mj will show usage for up to 30 days because active ingredients decompose into fat soluble compounds, get absorbed and can take a while to be released.

The blood test for THC will show whether or not the person is currently intoxicated. Thus, someone pulled over that is sure of not being under the influence probably should insist upon a blood test to prove that. Presumably, that would end the case without having to hire a lawyer and such. The blood test shows current level of intoxication.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Any law that allows the easy incarceration of any citizen any time those in power want to do it is the ultimate enemy of democracy

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm sorry, Scott, but this time, you are wrong. There will simply show a level of THC slowly diminishing from the time used to the time the blood was drawn, which may be minutes, hours or days. There is no current level of intoxication for marijuana. Its always in my blood. Show me where you get your info.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Taxpayers here is my point. Almost all of the above cases will not make it to court. With NO viable means to test for "instant" intoxication, your local DA is throwing alot of these case out before the reach any dates. I AM NOT SUPPORTING DRINKING, SMOKING POT, DOING HEROIN, DOING YOUR MAKE-UP OR ANY SUCH ACTIVITY that would be unsafe while driving SO DONT GO THERE!

The CSP is making arrests on LEGAL MMJ card holders and setting there feet to the fire. This is costing YOU the taxpayer extra money for these false actions that a few BAD EGGS have chosen to become saviors of the world and go AGAINST any votes that YOU have made to make medical MMJ legal.

73 years of the WAR on MMJ and some local CSP officers is going to make it his mission to stop it? What a joke to us taxpayers who pay his paycheck. Lets go after our own citizens and build a carrier out of ruining the lives and families of innocent people. Maybe we can make it right in 2012!

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

DrGreengenes, um, how about from norml.org I wouldn't consider them to be the best site, but it is probably considered a credible source by you. So it appears that you are wrong on both blood testing (detection levels) and urine testing (which doesn't test for THC, but the metabolites which is are the remnant chemicals after the body metabolizes THC). And btw, blood testing will not just show the existence of THC, but any decent lab will also give the levels of concentration. So while there are no legally defined levels of "safe" THC vs intoxication impaired THC, it appears that intoxication effects are noted around 5 ppm which is well above detectable. Thus, I think it is entirely reasonable for a mj user that is not at the moment under the influence that is being pulled over on suspicion of DUID to insist upon a blood test because other tests will show having used mj while a blood test can show presence and if the concentration suggest intoxication.

cut and pasted from norml.org on the abcs of drug testing

B – blood testing

Blood tests, unlike urinalysis, detect the presence illicit drugs, not inactive drug metabolites. In general, THC only remains detectable in the blood of cannabis consumers for a few hours (though low, residual levels may be detected in chronic smokers for up to 12-24+ hours if more sensitive technology is used). Because of this narrow detection window, blood tests are typically only administered in the workplace post-accident in order to estimate recent cannabis consumption. Therefore, most after-hours consumers have little to fear from a blood screen.

U – urinalysis

Of the estimated 55 million drug tests performed annually in the United States, approximately 90 percent of these are urine tests. While often inaccurately referred to by employers and drug testers as an impairment test, urinalysis can not detect the presence of any illicit drugs – including marijuana – and can only identify the presence of non-psychoactive drug metabolites indicating that a substance has been previously consumed at an unspecified point in time. Unfortunately for cannabis consumers, pot’s primary metabolite THC-COOH is fat soluble, and may remain detectable in urine for days and sometimes two-to-three weeks after past use in regular smokers. Fortunately, most standard urine tests can be easily influenced by dilution.

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

Scott, my point being is that 5ppm or more = intoxicated? This Trooper arrests you anyways. Blood tests come later. Merely upon the observance that HE THINKS the person is intoxicated. If the person's car reeks of burning marijuana, that's one thing. But most times, this is not the case. The person is profiled and manipulated and given a DUID regardless, merely for looking a certain way or having the marijuana within reach. If they used it or not or submit to the blood test or not, they get the DUID...this is BS

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

Imagine having a life long speech impediment, like me. A stutter(studder?) no doubt means you are a meth'd out gun runner. Mix in the fact your driving a pre 1995 rust bucket...and oh my , thats definitally grounds for a car search. How many times can an officer ask you to search your vehicle...10..20 ..100 times? You dont want to exercise your constitutional rights and refuse the search, because that would mean your hopped up on goofballs..and undoubtably shuttling firearms and cocaine to be sold to pre school kids. And if your car is being searched illegally..do NOT say anything like "this is b.s" because the officer will get in your face and act all tough and threaten to haul you in. Thats what happened the last time I got pulled over (broken windshield). On my birthday too, on a freezing cold january morning, it was seriously minus 10 or so. A simple broken windshield stop turned into a 30 min car search. I refused the search and the officer kept asking and asking and asking untill finally I gave in and said yes, I had nothing to hide. First he told us he was looking for drugs, then he said he was looking for guns.By the time the search was over I was so cold I was shaking uncontrolably, and was worried that I'd be hauled in for being on speed or something....but instead he just drove away, leaving us there feeling..well...violated. ...and on a side note..this officer lived across the street from me for a while but then moved to a different location. When the management went in to prepare the unit for a new tenant, she found the place all messed up...kicked in doors, holes punched in the walls, ect.

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Trooper Hilling was also there when Gary Wall was arrested. Big surprise, huh?

Unfortunately, unless the FBI, DOJ or CBI suddenly take up the cause of protecting marijuana and alcohol users, I wouldn't look for any help in prosecuting Trooper Hilling for abuse of police power. They'd have to catch him in a sting and then prove he was actually doing something unlawful. So, like, it's never going to happen. MMJ users have picked the wrong minority to belong to if they expect protection by the state or federal governments.

MMJ users don't intend to put anyone in danger. Unfortunately, many of them probably do without even realizing they are a danger to others. So are people who drive while drowsy.

I find that it helps to drive about 300 feet behind another car on CR-129 so that if someone comes around a curve on the wrong side of the road, the guy ahead of me will provide plenty of warning. I call it the 100 mph bumper. So far it has worked great.

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exduffer 4 years, 1 month ago

Aich- can we see a picture of Mrs. Potato(e) Head?

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

DrGreengenes, And my point is that someone that knows they are not high should consider insisting upon a blood test because that can clear them of the DUID charge.

I have not been able to find any studies linking blood levels to physical impairment where a person's reactions at different levels of intoxication are compared to their normal reaction times and so on. And where the levels of intoxication are measured via a blood test.

I was able to find a link suggesting that some people say they start feeling high around 5 ppm. That does matter because it certainly is possible to measure parts per billion or even parts per trillion. So while a blood test might show prior pot use by detecting THC, it can also show if person is likely to be have under the influence by showing the concentration levels of THC.

In the absence of blood levels vs physical impairment studies, a mmj patient arrested for DUID wanting to clear themselves might have to later test themselves by taking their drugs, taking a blood test and then doing physical tests showing that their reaction times and so on are not impaired. Those sort of physical tests are well documented from various alcohol impairment studies.

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

Again, the DUID should not even be brought up unless they are visibly impaired.... Period.

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trump_suit 4 years, 1 month ago

"B – blood testing

Blood tests, unlike urinalysis, detect the presence illicit drugs, not inactive drug metabolites. In general, THC only remains detectable in the blood of cannabis consumers for a few hours (though low, residual levels may be detected in chronic smokers for up to 12-24+ hours if more sensitive technology is used). Because of this narrow detection window, blood tests are typically only administered in the workplace post-accident in order to estimate recent cannabis consumption. Therefore, most after-hours consumers have little to fear from a blood screen."

Even under this testing criteria, how long does an individual stay "intoxicated" to the point of impairment after smoking MJ? If the testing window is 12-24 hours, I would hypothesize that this test does not show intoxication or impairment levels either. From my college days, I cannot remember ever being "stoned" for 24 hours, 12 hours, or even 6.

Until a test is developed that can identify the actual level of impairment, issuing a DUID is simply an exercise in futility that any decent lawyer will have dismissed. This has the effect of leaving those that are truely impaired when driving with a court judgement of "Not Guilty" or "dismissed for lack of evidence".

Furthermore, this leaves an individual that holds a MMJ card pretty much not guilty of DUID because there would almost never be a 24 hour period that is free of THC so the test would "ALWAYS" be postive. Whether that individual is impaired while driving cannot be accurately determined. This is a huge hole in our enforcement laws that needs to be filled.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

I had some "well off" friends pulled over on 129 a few years back. They were speeding. They pulled into a private driveway. The officer went up to the car and they (the well offs) started screaming bloody murder about how the officer couldnt pull them over, and the officer went away......must be nice to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ @ aich, thats why you dont see enough police on 129, too much $$$$$$$ up there.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

I had some "well off" friends pulled over on 129 a few years back. They were speeding. They pulled into a private driveway. The officer went up to the car and they (the well offs) started screaming bloody murder about how the officer couldnt pull them over, and the officer went away......must be nice to have $$$ @ aich, thats why you dont see enough police on 129, too much $$$$$$$ up there.

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

Trump_suit, The 12-24 hours is how long there is detectable levels of the THC. But a test result includes the concentration levels of the drug, not just that it was detected. It is easy enough to detect in the parts per billion range which less than what what it takes for someone to report that they feel high.

There does not appear to be an agreed upon concentration that the user is high. It appears to be somewhere around 5 ppm. So the actual number is not that important, but it is relevant that it is around single digit ppm concentrations because a blood test could certainly detect parts per billion which would show recent usage, but not intoxication or impairment.

DUID cases appear to be less dependent upon proving the person had high levels of drugs in their system, but upon officer claims of having observed impaired driving and evidence of drug use. They do appear to be a mess to take to court because the driver can just argue that they weren't impaired by drugs. That maybe they are always not the best drivers. The point of the DUID laws is more about being able to hold people accountable that are so obviously impaired, not whether they have detectable levels of drugs. DUID laws were not written because of mj, but because of prescription and illegal narcotics, amphetamines and so on.

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

Scott says, "Furthermore, this leaves an individual that holds a MMJ card pretty much not guilty of DUID because there would almost never be a 24 hour period that is free of THC so the test would "ALWAYS" be postive. Whether that individual is impaired while driving cannot be accurately determined. This is a huge hole in our enforcement laws that needs to be filled."

My point exactly.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Scott they dont have this technology you speek of is in use in Routt County. And WHY is the CSP the only law enforcement agency that VIOLATES MMJ card holders rights to the extreme. I will tell you why! The CSP is just doing what they want. THERE AGENDA IS TO DECLARE WAR ON ROUTT COUNTY CITIZENS AND RUIN LIVES AND TRY TO PROVE THERE EXISTANCE BY DESTROYING DEMOCRACY AND GOING AGINST VOTERS WHO APPROVED AMMENDMENT 20!

Not the Mexican Drug Cartel.

Just the poor guy with 20.00 worth of Medical MMJ in his pocket and a license to have it and the CSP costs taxpayers hundreds of dollars to only be thrown out of court.

WAKE UP PEOPLE! THEY ARE COSTING YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A WEEK!

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exduffer 4 years, 1 month ago

Interesting how this and Cargo's story are getting the most play.

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

duffer,

Figure out who looks most like Mr. Potato head, and then check his other photos.

Bakrodr,

One of my neighbors got pulled over on CR-129 for driving "too close to the yellow line." No $#!+.

Sounds like your friends had a "deal" with the former RCSO. No surprise here. It's what we've all suspected.

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honestabe 4 years, 1 month ago

with the increase in CSP issued DUID's, this might make for another interesting story for the pilot, people seem to care and pay attention to weed issues. Are the stops warranted and are they getting prosecuted?Why only CSP? has there been a huge uptick in weed related accidents (showing actual impairment), or just more arrests? Inquiring minds want to know...

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JJ Southard 4 years, 1 month ago

Yeah.....honestabe wants the TRUTH!!

Truth is Abe, Trooper Hilling is abusing his power. There has NOT been a huge uptick in weed related accidents....nope. He just hates weed and the people who do it are gona pay.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

All patients beware of CSP!

Put all medical mmj in the BACK of your vehicle. He will ask you if you have any drugs, contraband or wepons. SAY NO! Medical mmj is NOT a drug, Its medicine.

REFUSE A SEARCH AT ALL COST! You have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to refuse a search! STAND your ground with HILLING! YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE A SEARCH!!! JUST SAY NO TO HILLING.

MAKE HIM WORK!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

All patients beware of CSP!

Put all medical mmj in the BACK of your vehicle. He will ask you if you have any drugs, contraband or wepons. SAY NO! Medical mmj is NOT a drug, Its medicine.

REFUSE A SEARCH AT ALL COST! You have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to refuse a search! STAND your ground with HILLING! YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE A SEARCH!!! JUST SAY NO TO HILLING.

MAKE THEM WORK!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

All patients beware of CSP!

Put all medical mmj in the BACK of your vehicle. He will ask you if you have any drugs, contraband or wepons. SAY NO! Medical mmj is NOT a drug, Its medicine.

REFUSE A SEARCH AT ALL COST! You have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to refuse a search! STAND your ground with HILLING! YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE A SEARCH!!! JUST SAY NO TO HILLING.

They dont care about your RIGHTS!!

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oldskoolstmbt 4 years, 1 month ago

dr greengenes post from nov 7 @ 1:45 pm......RIGHT ON THE MONEY....

officer hilling is a DRE (drug recognition expert).....he abuses this certification....everything muck & others have posted concerning DUID in this valley is legit!

aich~ really? is that the olny way to get hilling out?...i can see it now....

JUST SAY NO TO HILLING TEA PARTY.....who wants to be a member?!

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck,

He will ask you if you have any drugs, contraband or wepons. SAY NO! Medical mmj is NOT a drug, Its medicine.

I think the better answer is to say that you walk to talk to a lawyer to protect your constitutional rights.

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Oldskool,

Unless the CSP fires him, yeah. If you've got about $30,000 to pay a lawyer up front to sue him, you can sue him, but even if you win that doesn't mean anybody will stop him.

It is ironic that people who violated the laws against drug abuse for decades now want the protection of law enforcement officers to protect their "rights."

Don't hold your breath ;-)

Having a blood test and having it come up in your favor does not mean you don't need a lawyer. If you're going to go into court with a blood test and ask for charges to be dropped, yeah, you better have a lawer. Same for alcohol.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

aich-
DA throws 90% out! These people have MMJ medical cards.

ITS A HEAD HUNT!!!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Achi

I think i know who you are. I think you work for the SSPD. I love the fact you seem to be a little more UNDERSTANDING of our views. I even think we are facebook friends belive it or not. You have gained my respect and i rebut any negativity i have shown toward you in the past.

SEE WE CAN LOVE AND LIVE TOGETHER!

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Routt_County_Guy 4 years, 1 month ago

I agree that this officer should have to work when he goes fishing for a bust. The fishing expedition begins when he "notices a strong alcohol/marijuana smell in your car", and in which most cases is not really present. I suggest you always refuse a roadside sobriety test, as this is a tool that overzealous cops will use to always find that you have flunked on at least one of his subjective tests. Unless you are under arrest there is no reason to get out of your car. Stay inside. Also, you should ask the officer why he thinks you are impaired, because a cracked windshield, no front license plate, failure to signal, or even bloodshot eyes (as there are many reasons besides drugs that someone may have red eyes) are not signs of impairment. And always refuse a search of your vehicle.
If asked to do so, you are required to take a blood test or Breathalyzer test or you will lose your license. But make him work for it and ask him again what is his reasonable suspicion that you are impaired.

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck,

"Understanding" means I know what you mean. It does not mean I agree with what you want. Understanding also means that I know how things work around here, and what the law says, and there is a difference.

A little child can be expected to do things that are selfish and dangerous out of ignorance. When those things are not pointed out and corrected, little children grow up to be anti-social beings. Sometimes little children grow up to be anti-social beings because of mental or emotional illness.

People riding around in cars using marijuana or any other intoxicant are a danger to themselves and others. That's why the CSP stops people who appear to be users. Unfortunately, poor grooming and hygiene, lack of care for surroundings (homes and vehicles) and even the appearance of poverty are signs of drug abuse and/or mental illness. 40% of schizophrenics are drug/alcohol abusers. Frequent contact with civil authorities is also a sign of scizophrenia. When a person or their vehicle or their home show signs of neglect, there's a fair chance that substance abuse is a factor. That's just how it is. If people are going to fit that profile, they will be under suspicion.

I don't know Trooper Hilling, but from the comments posted here it's apparent he is using some set of criteria to single out people who fit the profile.

I'd rather spend money on something besides a broken windshield or a missing license plate too, but that's what responsible people do instead of spending the money on pot. Hey, dude, if you're in so much pain you need MMJ, why are you out driving around? It does not make sense. Does the MMJ give you a false sense of well-being that makes you think it's okay to go out driving around under the influence?

Mature, responsible results usually have some tolerance for childish behavior when we see it in children. When we see it in a forty-something person, we don't have the same level of tolerance. When we see someone who is living on the low margin of the economic scale, that means they are not paying much in taxes and probably not paying for their own medical care. That means WE are paying their share.

So, you are right that I "understand" you, but I truly resent the $#!+ out of having to work harder and longer to provide for the needs of people who center their lives around getting high. It's not fair. I've worked hard to have what I have and to be where I am, and I started out with nothing but a job and about $400 I managed to save while working part time in high school. Every other person with normal physical abilities and intelligence started out where I did -- with a chance to make a life. I've had ups and downs along the way too, because that's what life gives us. Why is sitting around here getting high an option? Maybe you can understand that it's not pot that makes us resent you. It's having to pick up the slack that drug abusers don't cover for themselves.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm confused,why would you have to work harder to provide for the needs of other people, in what way do you provide for the needs of other people? How do you pick up the slack for drug abusers? Not trying to be a jerk , just curious. ...and some people with the nicest cars, and most beautifully manicured lawns are the highest people I know (usually not weed either, much worse drugs like cocaine) But they are less likely to be profiled...must be nice.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm confused, in what way do you provide for the needs of other people? How do you pick up the slack for drug abusers? Not trying to be a jerk , just curious. ...and some people with the nicest cars, and most beautifully manicured lawns are the highest people I know (usually not weed either, much worse drugs like cocaine) But they are less likely to be profiled...must be nice.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm confused, in what way do you provide for the needs of other people? How do you pick up the slack for drug abusers? Not trying to be a jerk , just curious. ...and some people with the nicest cars, and most beautifully manicured lawns are the highest people I know (usually not weed either, much worse drugs like cocaine) But they are less likely to be profiled.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

..sometimes I wonder who's more paranoid, the people that smoke or the people that dont

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

Brian, The same person might be the most paranoid on both sides of the issue depending upon whether high, drunk or sober at the moment.

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exduffer 4 years, 1 month ago

Stay tuned til tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Achi

I could not be in more argreement with you. I NEVER want anyone to have to suffer any kind of tragety when it comes to STUPIDITY of a intoxicated driver. I stand behind you 110%.

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exduffer 4 years, 1 month ago

Holy thermal underwear batman! The jail must have been closed last week because of the cold and snow.

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hereandthere 4 years, 1 month ago

I also agree that driving under the influence of any substance is unacceptable. What I don't agree with Aich on is that his choice of drug should be legal (inherently legal, according to another poster), while my choice is illegal. All the cute little anecdotal stories about pot users pale in comparison to the actual documented evidence of damage to society due to alcohol use. So, to borrow an acronym from another of my favorite posters, WTF.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Looks like maybe we cause some issue with all the FALSE arrests of medical marijuana patients and them being accused of DUID by the CSP even though they could not be proven and the DA is throwing them out like old newspapers?

TALK TO US PILOT!! WHERE IS IT?

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck,

You're right, friend, that I bear you no ill will. I can't explain why booze is okay and pot is not, but I choose to avoid the problems involved with using an unlawful substance. I'm not an addictive or mood-altering substance seeking person, and I spend my time away from the day job enjoying my family, pets, and other intellectual and creative interests. I have a beer with dinner at home when I don't have to go back out (at least not within an hour) and rarely have more than one. I enjoy good gin (Bombay Saphire) and sometimes have a nightcap. On rare occasions, I'll have a nightcap to help me drop off to sleep, but those times are truly rare and generally coincide with things that can't be helped; illness in the family, idiots at work, people treating each other unfairly for a profit, and dealing with injustice that the authorities refuse to recognize. When there is any chance that I might have to go out again, I just don't drink at all. We just went through a couple of months like that due a health issue, and I didn't miss drinking.

I just hate to see you in such a tizzy about something you could avoid by making the decision to stop using pot. That's all it is. A decision, like any other. That is, of course, if pot is not addictive . . .

bakrodr,

Home owners are assessed based on the value of their property and the needs of the community for tax revenue. That money goes to community programs which benefit everyone. Income tax is the same way. My tax rates are based on the needs of government, which have to provide services to people who cannot support themselves, and even on things like law enforcement, the court system and other functions that are burdened by dealing with substance abuse. People who abuse drugs AND pay high tax rates certainly don't make up for those who abuse drugs and pay little or nothing in taxes.

So, yeah, in order to have the things that I want, and to pay for the things that a responsible person provides for themselves and their families, I have to make more money and work harder than abusers who don't assume those responsibilities, and I also pay taxes on that amount of "more money" that I have to make to provide for my own needs. If substance abuse was not a burden on society, it would cost me less to buy some things I need (insurance, health and otherwise, like to cover me from injury from uninsured motorists) and I would not have to pay as much in taxes that go to government programs that deal with abusers.

A person living outside the law pays nothing into the system, but still costs all of us when they get sick, hurt someone, go into the justice system, or even qualify for social security disability payments for conditions resulting from substance abuse.

Drug abuse is not a victimless crime when someone else ends up paying the bills for the health and government costs.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

I love how he thinks only lower income "non taxpayers" smoke heres a funny little tidbit ...about 10 years ago I met a guy on the lifts, he seemed like a good guy so I invited him to do some b.c runs with me, He burned tough the whole day, at the end of the day I asked him where he was from and what he did for a living...turns out he was from d.c and was an assistant to a supreme court justice....damn that low income non taxpayer!!!!!!

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hereandthere 4 years, 1 month ago

The point being missed (ignored) is that plenty of those who choose to use pot have no problem with that use. Just as plenty of those who choose to use alcohol have no problem with that use. And, just as the prohibition of alcohol was due to a society wishing to legislate morality, so too the prohibition of pot. My use of pot is no different then someone who enjoys a beer after work, or the occasional nightcap. I do not accept being painted with the same brush as an individual who has problems with the abuse of pot, just as I would not expect that someone who enjoys using alcohol would appreciate being lumped with those who have problems with that substance. So all we ask, is to stop the hypocrisy. It dos'nt even make sense. The prohibition against pot causes far more damage to our society then the actual use of that substance. And somewhere I got the idea that here in the good old USA, I have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Where does the legislation of morality fit in with those beliefs?

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Okay, let me be perfectly clear.

People with substance abuse problems who are a burden on society cost all of us time and money that we'd prefer to spend on something else. I would wager that the affluent pot smokers who pay taxes, pay their bills, and use the stuff as responsibly as those who use alcohol without problems would also rather spend their money on things for themselves than in paying taxes to provide services for, or fund the justice system to deal with, irresponsible users. The only real difference between responsible, lawful use of alcohol or the unlawful use of pot is that pot is illegal, and when you purchase it, you are most likely funding a criminal enterprise. Some people feel the same way about purchasing alcohol, and condemn any use of that, too. The difference, like it or not, is that using an unlawful substance carries an overhead cost to society which I get stuck paying instead of maybe going out to eat, purchasing new skis, fixing up the house, or any of those other things that would put money into the local economy instead of into the tax coffers.

As for "legislating morality," what about stealing, killing, lying, etc.? Those are also moral issues which are "legislated," and no matter how much fun it would be to steal instead of working for a living, and no matter that laws against theft may interfere with someone's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, it's against the law.

I really do "get it." I understand that people want to use pot because of the way it makes them feel. I understand that people think it should not be illegal.

But it is. That's not my fault, so why should I have to pay the cost?

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Achi,

Now couldn't Mcdonalds be a burden on the health care system? Cancer? I would venture only one of these are more of a burden on the health care system than substance abuse. You say substance abuse but the top ten cancers i bet consume billions a year in health cost. Obesity in the one of the largest growing problems in our country and we aint outlawing fat people or 2 for 2.22 hotdogs at 7-11. Society has tons of fiscal burdens.

400 million dollar annual budget for the DEA in a losing cause YOU TALK ABOUT BURDEN on American society.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

estimated value of the 7 major drug cartels in Mexico

43 billion dollars

43 billion vrs 400 million (DEA budget) HUMMMM not a good investment.

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Aich

Let us legalize it and let it pay its own cost. Hear me out......

Legalize MMJ for 21 and older only 20% sales tax on all purchases. Divided up with state, county and city and 5% of that to cover MMJ related health care or rehab if a person feels its needed. Class 4 felonies to anyone convicted of contributing to minors. Harsh penalties for DUID. Harsher than DUI on booze.

Millions saved on law enforcment costs associated to stopping mmj. Cops focus on CRIME not MMJ.

Millions saved to tax payers in incarceration and legal court stuff. Free up the court logs. Law enforcement can go after harder drugs and spend money and rescources MORE wisely and MAYBE get a foothold on cocain or meth.

This attempt to control it has FAILED. 73 years of failure. With ZERO control.

WHAT WE ARE DOING IS FAILING AND WILL ALWAYS FAIL UNLESS THINGS CHANGE OR YOU ARREST MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF AMERICANS RUIN THERE LIVES AND THOW US IN JAIL FOR EVER.

Achi you and Hilling will NEVER stop it! NEVER EVER.

Its bigger then YOU and ME!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

ACHI SAYS "As for "legislating morality," what about stealing, killing, lying, etc.? Those are also moral issues which are "legislated," and no matter how much fun it would be to steal instead of working for a living, and no matter that laws against theft may interfere with someone's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, it's against the law".

Then legalize it.

Stealing, Killing and lying are not involved in tomatoes!!!!

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Stacy DeLuca 4 years, 1 month ago

Haven't done Pot in over 25 years...agree leaglize it tax it for all the state can just like cigs and everything else will have new roads more potrols... as for 129 in a recent post...are you going to be the first one to complain when you get the first ticket because you got caught? Glass house????

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honestabe 4 years, 1 month ago

i wonder which person of high power/influence got jailed last week, and the pilot is hiding their identity. WHY NO JAIL REPORT THIS WEEK BRENT? its tuesday already, who are you protecting brent, or are you still working on getting the jail report up? is the csp not sharing info anymore?

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck,

Don't ask me to legalize it. I can't do anything about it. I'm just one guy who gets stuck with the tax burden imposed by American consumption of 43 billion dollars worth of illicit drugs.

sj_routt71,

Speeding is selfish, wasteful and anti-social. The limit on that road is 45 for a reason, 60 is unsafe because of cyclists, animals and random road hazards (like some dumb #### off the road from going too fast), and if I get a ticket it will be because I deserve it. No, I will not complain. I'll pay the fine and learn from the experience.

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hereandthere 4 years, 1 month ago

You are not seriously comparing pot use to stealing, killing, and lying? Oh wait, you are. There in lies the the real issue that needs to be discussed in these forums. Prohibitionists feel that there is something inherently immoral with the users of pot, but that alcohol use is not. Something very Un-American. Both these sentiments have there origins in the hubris fabricated by prohibitionists to advance their cause. As for the tax burden that your anti pot argument is now morphing into, it doesn't make sense. Legalize pot, and your problem goes away. Presto! How hard is that. Me thinks that there are a lot of people that profit from pot being illegal, and I am not just talking about "cartels". I believe you will find that law enforcement and corrections employees have some of the strongest lobbying presence on capital hill. They realize where their bacon comes from. Seems to me that we could really make head way on the deficits that are hurting us if that 43 billion dollars was captured in the taxable economy.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

Aich says mmj supporters have picked the wrong minority to be a part of...last time I checked bills like amendment 20 only pass when a MAJORITY vote in favor. Did Arizona recently legalize mmj because a minority voted yes, I dont think so.

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brian ferguson 4 years, 1 month ago

...and my earlier post regarding my "well off" friends being pulled over on 129 happened during the Warner administration....no consiracy there...man, your paranoid.

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Roadie,

One of the first things a lawyer learns is to never ask a question unless they already know the answer. YOU are the one who lumped pot use into the category of "legislated morality," not me. Used to be that sodomy, adultery and witchcraft were also illegal in various places around the country. Laws against adultery went away when lawyers sitting in state legislatures and state judges decided that gettin' a little sumpin on the side should not be illegal. Laws against sodomy went away as them same lawyers and judges discovered gay sex. No-fault divorce laws came into being when them same lawyers and judges wanted out of their stifling long-term marriages to chase girls, boys, or girls and boys without carrying the baggage of a spouse who would not agree to a divorce. I gotta tell you, the social revolution over the past 50- 60 or so years has really improved our society by making it okay to do everything formerly considered immoral EXCEPT stealing, killing, doing bodily harm, lying in court and smoking pot. Alcohol is still unlawful to sell in certain jurisdictions (dry counties) but it's legal for everyone 21 and over as long as they're not driving, flying, boating, running a train, etc. So, would you like to rephrase, or just leave pot where you put it -- as a legislated immorality.

There's a difference between voting for MMJ and MJ for general consumption. Show me those majorities.

The incident which happened under Warner is no surprise to me. I could give you names of several people who get away with ANYTHING up here, or you could just check the county tax records and see who owns big parcels of property and see if their names match your friends.

I'm not a prohibitionist. I just know that pot makes people stupid. It doesn't make them as sick as booze, so that's why, I guess, they can show up for work stoned and spend a half-hour walking in a circle looking for the hammer hanging on their tool belt. I solved that problem by not being in a business where I need to hire locals. No loss for me, but hmmm, what about those jobs? Well, I guess the answer to that one is people who can't afford a place to live don't really need a job, do they?

See, the truth is that I do understand that a lot of moderate pot users are what they believe to be successful. Same with alcohol. It's the ones who let substance abuse ruin their individual growth and productivity who have the problem. I work in a field where stupid won't cut it, and so I don't have to deal with ignorance anywhere except in the retail sector and the U S Postal Service.

I don't have a choice to make pot legal, and I don't have a choice to avoid paying the costs, and the result is that I have less money to spend in town. QED

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Achi,

WOW! Who is worthy of your company in this world?

Give me one example of a valid viable cost that YOU claim you pay. What bill do you have that itemized "COST OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE"!

What is sucess? A million dollar home? A 60,000 vehicle? Controlling others lives?

Dude i make a little less than 100k a year. I smoke pot. I have lots of nice things. I have a HUGE retirement (even after this ressesion) cause i invested my money correctly. I own 135 acres outside of Craig but live in South Routt.
I have the best wife in the world and i am happy as H**L!

I will take my life over anything you got any day of the week. AND SMOKE MY MEDICAL MMJ!

Difference is i dont think anyone is below me like you think EVERYONE IS BELOW YOU!

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muck 4 years, 1 month ago

Achi,

What does perfect feel like? Just wondering?

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

Muck,

You seem to make the point that you are a responsible member of society who also smokes pot. Okay. Point taken. What else in your life are you so passionate about?

Our friend mtroach really just spilled the beans on the subject. People are using it to get high, no matter what other perceived benefits marijuana may have. If taking an ibuprofen tablet gave you an immediate high, it would probably be just as popular.

Why does it bother you that I think pot abusers are not reliable and dependable people? I've fired employees for coming to work drunk as well as stoned. I've fired employees for coming to work so hung over they can't be trusted to use tools. I terminated a business partnership because my associate was a chronic alcohol abuser who cost us both a lot of time and money.

The point has often been made, "What's the difference between relaxing with a joint or relaxing with a drink after work?" Well, nothing,probably. Except one is illegal and will get you in trouble with the law while the other one will not unless you drive drunk.

I just remember how it was to work all day at one business, and then come home and have to do the books and payroll for another business, when I would have really rather been sitting down to relax -- maybe even have a drink, but not with the idea of getting drunk or even high.

I guess the thing I'd ask you if you were working for me is this. Do you hurry home from work to get high? Is that the best part of your day? I'm still staying late to get the job done, actually went in after 4:30 on Veteran's Day and stayed until after midnight because of an urgent project, and wish I could hurry home to be with my wife. That's the best part of my day. Getting home to be with the family.

I don't think I'm better than you. You are probably better of financially than I am. Fact is, if you hurry home to get high, I pity you. I don't mind working to support my wife and family, and provide a home, and medical insurance, and all those things, because when I get home I'm in a happy place that fills me up just by being there.

(cont)

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

My former partner started cracking beers at 5 PM on the dot (that was his "moral" rule) and by 5:20 he'd put away two, was feeling a little buzz, and was working on number three. I saw this happen several days in a row when we had to work late to finish a project, and finally understood what was wrong with him. A typical night for him was somewhere between 6 and 8 beers, and he was normally passed out asleep by 9 PM according to his mostly dissatisfied wife. This was how their life ran from Monday through Friday. I don't know how they did on the weekends, but it was a different ritual. I think that's the only reason she didn't leave him. Actually, they were both a couple of co-dependent nut cases, but they seemed to have plenty of money, and lived in a nice home. One thing I do know for sure is that I would have more money if he had not cost us so much in time, materials, money and productivity on the job. Most of that was due to coming to work dehydrated, surly and hung over, which caused him to make poor decisions, do the work improperly, and not be able to accomplish simple mental tasks. And, I've seen exactly the same behavior on the job from pot users (plus other drugs, I'm sure).

Substance abuse of any sort which interferes with a person's ability to think, perform, make decisions, solve problems and just not break $#!+ or not hurt themselves hurts them, their families and the people they work for.

I admit there's a big difference between "use" and "abuse," and if "abuse" was not an issue then pot would probably be legal for adults.

My position on this subject is a result of my own personal experience working alongside substance abusers, suffering financially in business as a result, and knowing that "pot don't hurt nobody" is a lie. I've also worked with people who were in the justice system as a result of pot use, and I've got to tell you, seeing them, their enabling family members, their homes and knowing the details of their lives and finances just doesn't support the view that legalizing psychoactive substances would be helpful for the general public. Sure, it would benefit some responsible users by taking them out of the "illegal" category, but at what cost?

If all the people using pot are doing it to feel good at the end of the work day, I'm sorry they don't have something better to come home to. It must be a very sad life. At least for the one's I've had the misfortune to know through contact with the justice system, "a sad life" would be a step up.

I truly believe that you don't have any of these sorts of problems, and that's why you are so spun up about the "legal" pot issue. It's your choice to use the stuff, but it's my choice to avoid people who do (which I've been doing since college, by the way), and nothing in your perfect pot-smoking life can change the scores of other negative examples I've dealt with during my life.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 1 month ago

Aich- Good to see that you haven't given up the fight. What would all of us MMJ patients do all day if you weren't here to play the foe on the subject? As I sit here with my coffee, my first bowl of morning meds and my laptop, I wonder to myself about how many other people, just in this town, are doing the exact same thing, or will be doing the exact same thing when they wake up. The longer I live in this town, the less people I meet that actually support the war against cannabis. For the most part, people are sick and tired of hearing about their tax dollars going towards arresting/harassing cannabis users. But not you though. You are/were law enforcement of some type and my best guess is cannabis constituted the meat and potatoes of your business as an "officer." You probably feel some sort of righteous duty to protect the innocents of this planet from the evils of people who are under the power of a plant. But that's standard for law types. They buy the propaganda up with the quickness. They use their sense of morality to justify everything they do and they've ruined countless lives in the process. Your own self-engendered sense of right is all that you'll ever need to justify every judgment that you've passed off onto people you view as lower than yourself(i.e. cannabis users). The only reason that I know these things so well is because my very own father is the very same way.

No one will ever be able to change your mind on the subject or make you apologize for the offenses that you've committed against cannabis users. But people will probably never stop asking you to do one very simple thing for them,...

KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AICH.

No one gives a flying monkey poop about your anti-cannabis sermons except for the choir. And you know what they say about preachin' to the choir, right? They're just there to agree with you. That's their job. Congrats, you've all bought into the lie that cannabis is bad for you. Now go away.

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aichempty 4 years, 1 month ago

MMJ,

If you don't like to read about one person's bad experiences with substance abusers, then don't read them. Muck makes some good points about how responsible use should be tolerated -- if it was that easy.

I worked with a program that bailed drug and alcohol offenders out of jail so they could keep their jobs while awaiting trial. Some of them just screwed up and got caught, while others were long-term offenders. Visiting them or their families in their homes told a lot about them.

Abuse is clearly a symptom of deeper problems. Or is it that deeper problems are a symptom of abuse?

New Jersey has legalized pot for people who are terminally ill. I have no problem with that.

If you have a conditions that Colorado says is covered by pot, I have no problem with that.

If you can't get a job flipping burgers because you're a MMJ user, uh, that's your problem. You probably don't know that kitchen workers have some of the highest injury and workmens comp rates, right behind construction workers. Basically, using medication like yours qualifies you to empty trash cans and sweep floors for a company like Goodwill Industries. That's the reality. Maybe your father knows that and wants something better for you.

I've seen what happens to substance abusers on the job, and that's why I don't provide jobs for them around here. It's that simple. I could move away and maybe find a place where I could hire reliable people, but it's not worth it.

I'm not trying to save the world. I'm just telling the truth that folks who sell pot to kids don't tell them. Maybe one of them will read some of this and have second thoughts.

Right or wrong, pot use carries a stigma which affects insurance rates and employment choices. That's real. You might make a law some day that prohibits discrimination against pot users, but when you do, you will see the jobs disappear because of insurance rates, liability issues, and loss of productivity. Business has to make money to stay in business, and that's why we seem them close up around here all the time.

There are lots of disabled people who don't qualify for hazardous jobs. You're just one of them. If you were a lawyer, you probably wouldn't have any problems finding clients. Maybe your answer to a better job is more school? You're a smart guy. Get qualified for a job where pot use is not a problem, and stop complaining about people who won't hire you. (Dare I say, "put that in your pipe and smoke it?")

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muck 4 years ago

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." - Albert Einstein quote on Hemp

HERE IS PROOF! ALL YOU NAY SAYERS AINT NO EINSTEIN!

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aichempty 4 years ago

muck,

Using this logic, there should be no stop signs or speed limits . . . . at least not around here. Oh, include MIP tickets too.

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muck 4 years ago

Achi,

USING THIS REALITY Stop signs and speed limit laws are not in place because of audacious lies. These basic laws dont consume billions of dollars in a wasted attempt to get people to comply with them. We know why you should stop at a intersection not because government said monkey will fly out of your rear-end if you don't.

A MIP law for youth is awsome but it is somewhat of a failed policy also. LOOK AT THE JAIL REPORT. UNREGULATED MJ IS A HUGE FAILED POLICY. So if its harder for a kid to get booze, IT WILL BE EASIER FOR THEM TO GET WEED BECAUSE OF THIS UNREGULATED FAILURE OF THE WAR ON MJ.

Regulation is the key TO MJ because that is why BOOZE AND CIGS are regulated and legal.

  1. HARSHER PENALTIES FOR CONTRIBUTORS OF MJ OR ANY DRUG TO MINORS
  2. 20% SALES TAX ON LEGAL MJ (5% CITY 5% STATE 5% COUNTY 5% REHAB AND SOCIAL COSTS IF NEEDED)
  3. HARSH PENALTIES FOR DUID
  4. BUSINESS CAN DRUG TEST IF THEY WANT TO PREVENT EMPLOYEES FROM WORKING THERE.

What does this mean........ savings of millions and millions of dollars on wasted failed policy AND millions and millions of dollars earned in tax revenue gained EQUALS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OUR GOVERNMENT CAN USE ON FIGHTING COCAINE AND METH AND OTHER BAD DRUGS.

END THIS STUPID FAILED POLICY NOW!

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muck 4 years ago

WHY WAS ALCOHOL PROHIBITION ENDED IN 1932?

ANYONE?

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muck 4 years ago

ANSWER.......

Prohibition created a black market that competed with the formal economy, which already was under pressure. Roosevelt was elected based on the New Deal, which promised improvement to the economy that was only possible if the formal economy competed successfully against various economic forces, including the effects of prohibition's black market. This influenced his support for ratifying the 21st amendment, which repealed the 18th amendment that had established prohibition.

History repeats itself?

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