John Salazar supports health care plan
Friday, March 19, 2010
An eventful day in the national health care debate played out in Colorado politics Thursday when U.S. Rep. John Salazar said he plans to vote for the amended health care bill, citing new deficit reduction estimates that Colorado’s GOP chairman called “a joke.”
“I am going to be supporting the health care reform proposal that will be voted on Sunday afternoon,” said Salazar, a Democrat from the San Luis Valley. “It is the single largest deficit reduction bill that I will ever vote on.”
Salazar represents Routt County and the rest of the state’s Third Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives. The House is expected to vote Sunday on health care overhaul legislation intended to expand coverage to 32 million uninsured Americans, among other sweeping changes. Salazar said one reason for his support of the bill is preliminary cost estimates that the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, or CBO, released Thursday morning. The CBO said implementing the bill would cost $940 billion throughout 10 years but would reduce the national deficit by a net of $138 billion in that time period. Democratic leaders said the bill would reduce the deficit by $1.2 trillion in its second decade. Much of the deficit reduction would come from cuts to Medicare spending and a tax increase for higher income brackets.
“If we really are serious about lowering our national deficit, we have to address the issue of health care” and lower its costs, Salazar said.
Touting the health care bill’s potential to reduce the deficit could be a key political move for Democrats looking to sway fiscally conservative members of their party and achieve the 216 votes needed for House passage.
“I believe that we will have the votes by Sunday, if we do not have them now,” Salazar said. “I’m almost sure we probably have them now.”
Dick Wadhams, chairman of the Colorado Republican Party, said Thursday that the deficit reduction estimates are inflated.
“The CBO estimate is a joke. John Salazar’s boss, (Speaker of the House) Nancy Pelosi, has plugged a bunch of garbage into the CBO in order to get this ridiculous number,” Wadhams said.
Wadhams was traveling Thursday and not able to immediately provide an example of inflation in the deficit reduction figures. But he did say that according to the bill, “the taxes start being collected by the federal government immediately, but the benefits don’t start for four years — that’s one of the gimmicks the House Democrats are playing with.”
According to Salon.com, the House Republican Conference sent a mass e-mail Thursday afternoon stressing the preliminary nature of the CBO figures that the committee said give only a “rough outlook.”
Salazar acknowledged tax increases in the health care bill but said they apply to the wealthy rather than the working class. He said the bill would apply Medicare taxes to net investment income for every jointly filed tax return with a gross income of more than $250,000, and for every single-filer return with gross income of more than $200,000. Medicare tax currently does not apply to net investment income, he said.
“This isn’t taxing the working class citizens of this country — it only has a tax for the super-wealthy,” Salazar said. “We’re addressing those folks who are young working families … or those who are making too much to be eligible for Medicaid but can’t afford the high cost of insurance.”
The Third Congressional District spans 29 counties across western and southern Colorado. Documents released by Salazar’s staff, from the U.S. House Committee on Energy and Commerce, state that middle-class tax breaks in the health care bill could help 184,000 households that earn less than $88,000 in the district.
The health care proposal also would end the denial of coverage for people with pre-existing conditions such as cancer, heart disease or diabetes. The committee document states there are 18,600 uninsured people with pre-existing conditions in the Third Congressional District, which has 106,000 Medicare beneficiaries.
Comments
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
You are a disgrace and a fool Salazar. We will check back in 10 years to see how that deficit reduction has worked out, kinda like the hope and change thing you know. 10 years of revenue minus 6 years of services plus fuzzy math equals lies and deception and the "fundamental change of this Country" to Marxism. And what the heck is the education loan program doing in this bill? Salazar is going down in November.
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
John Salazar, in case you were unaware the people of the 3rd congressional district are overwhelmingly against this particular HCR bill. Don't you care? Don't you represent us? Who do you represent? (you'll know in November and we will not forget!) The CBO scored is exactly as presented, NO ONE actually believes it will be saving anyone money. Oh and nice fake at acting as if you were really really thinking about the bill to make your final decision. We were all reall really fooled.
boatgirl 3 years, 3 months ago
Mr Lizard and Mr Ski;
The people of the 3rd Congressional District are FOR healthcare reform and this bill. Tea Party devotees are LOUD , but they are not a majority. Enough with all of your threats to politicians. Like everyone else you only have one vote.
Good Job John Salazar!!
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
Count up another vote in favor of Healthcare reform and add my wife to it as well. Great job Rep. Salazar. Not everyone I know supports this bill, but the numbers are far more positive than the very vocal opposition would have us beleive.
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
It's MS to you boat. It's not a threat, it's what the polls say, it's unpopular in this district. The polls also have Scott Tipton neck and neck with Salazar. I have only one vote, yes, which most people understand except the far left and some Chicagoans, but I also will work tirelessly to make sure John Salazar no longer represents the 3rd.
JustSomeJoe 3 years, 3 months ago
Lizard - what polls are you talking about? Are you getting some real time third district polling data? I can't speak for the entire third district, but I can say definitively that Routt County and Steamboat Springs voters strongly support causes like health care. We supported Obama and his platform by a wide margin, and also support "left" oriented state amendments.
What exactly is your point with the far left/some Chicagoan comment? You think voter fraud and disenfranchisement is the exclusive domain of one group?
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
Forty-three percent (43%) of Colorado voters favor the health care plan currently working its way through Congress, while 56% oppose it. These numbers include 21% who strongly favor it versus 49% who are strongly opposed. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/colorado/election_2010_colorado_senate
Routt County may lean liberal in the SS area, but Mesa, Delta, Montrose and Garfield counties have a far larger rpopulation base of conservative voters who are highly motivated. If Colorado is so against this HCR bill it is reasonable to assume that the 3rd district with it's large conservative population areas is also agaisnt it. Tipton and Salazar are virtually tied according to a poll conducted by the Tarrance group. What do you have to contradict my thoughts other than your firends, wife and self are Salazar and HCR fans? Anything? Never heard vote early vote often? LOL
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
So far in this liitle comment section it stands at 4-2 in support of the bill. Out of 8 posts, the naysayers have posted 50% of the commentary but can only claim a 33% margin of support., (yes, I am counting my spouse, anyone else?)
Seems to me that the commenters on this article support the healthcare legislation. Lets show the naysayers that we support this bill.
JustSomeJoe 3 years, 3 months ago
Lizard - off course I've heard of vote early vote often. I just LOL when you act self-righteous about it, as if only the left and people from Chicago are capable of voter fraud.
Rassumusen, there's another LOL for you. Generally a right leaning polling organization (meaning their questions/polls are often skewed right in substance and results) without very good correlation with actual results - look up their polling/results from 2008. From the 3/17 rassmussen poll, Generally speaking, do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and the congressional Democrats? 45% Somewhat/Strongly Favor, 52% Somewhat/Strongly Oppose.
A lot closer than the nugget you pulled out the poll.
45,000 American die each year from lack of health care. Our tax dollars pay for them in the end. Heath Care Reform, it's what is good for America.
Fred Duckels 3 years, 3 months ago
Boatgirl, I will assume that you are pro abortion and believe a woman has the right to do with her body as she wishes. Will the mandatory health coverage still provide you with the same freedom, or will you be forced to buy insurance? Something this complicated should never be attempted by the left, as it is not in their genes. To them the matter of money is not in the equation. Their mantra is that justice must be done, and if we can afford A then we can certainly afford B, when in reality we can afford neither. The latest antics of the left are enough to destroy our nation with their total lack of any clue. If this bill passes we will have a nation in turmoil for the forseeable future.
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
To all posting here who believe this takeover is the great big change this Country needed and that they are now going to get a handout of free or cheep health care, you have been fooled. This has NOTHING to do with health care, it has to do with Progressives obtaining power over the people for the foreseeable future. We, as ordinary Americans, are going down a dark tunnel controlled by power greedy Politicians of which there is no light at the end. This spatting and arguing about stats of dead people back and forth is what was used to deceive all of us from the truth, there is NO Country that has ever succeeded in the Socialist/Communist model of Governing ever! There has only been pain, suffering and genocide. This President is leading us down the garden path of all of those Countries that are the trash heaps of history. How sad it is indeed that the sheep will follow.
freerider 3 years, 3 months ago
The best health care advice to anybody is .... DON'T GET SICK ....if you do forget it ....game over....as soon as you check into any Hospital in America you will go bankrupt even with insurance....that's why people are going to places like Thailand and Costa Rica .....it's about a tenth of the cost that it is here with better service
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
What do you say to those of us little guys that HAVE gotten sick and HAVE checked in and our health insurers paid the bulk of the bills as advertised? I would never trust Thailand or Costa Rica but you have my blessings, go and enjoy yourself. P.S. I have had conversations with active Dr's who will retire rather than work under a Socialist system, like it or not, changes are a coming that the CBO can't score with fuzzy Obama math.
boatwatch 3 years, 3 months ago
The Tea Party boys {Fred, Ski} are SOOO paranoid of DEMS. I hope you're not losing sleep. Don't worry boys, the sky is not falling. Count me as another BIG supporter of H/C reform and the bill that will pass on Sunday. Tea partiers are a small uniformed group that are afraid of their own shadow.
Fred Duckels 3 years, 3 months ago
Apparently Democrats have no shame, this whole mess is an embarassment beyond comprehension.
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
boatwatch, If you are saying we are a uniformed group I somewhat agree with you, but if you meant to say uninformed group then I would challenge you to provide what you think this bill has in it as the PRESIDENT AND PELOSI both say they won't know until it is passed. I would argue that the Tea Party members are much more informed and aware of what is coming than the lemmings who are "giddy" like the Dem leaders over this bills impending FORCED passage on Sunday. How stupid can people be to blindly trust those that have already lied to the people?
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
Here is what we are heading towards darlings.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1257944/NICE-rejects-cancer-drugs-extended-patients-lives.html
Read some of the peoples comments at the bottom of this article and see what we are in for.
Fred Duckels 3 years, 3 months ago
This health care/ socialism caper reminds me of the Florida recount. Democrats have the habit of voting endlessly until they get ahead. If they don't pass this joke they will continue until the voters throw them out.
dave mcirvin 3 years, 3 months ago
YES sir, Mr. Salazar. A responsible decision towards the beginning of healthcare reform is indeed a progressive, civil, humane and a responsible vote.
Didn't know that Dick Wadhams was more of a budgetary expert than the nonpartisan CBO. (No matter what his political leanings, might he consider calling himself Richard, Richie or Rick?)
signed, a physician (and one who wants a US heathcare system to be more efficient and accessible to all citizens.)
Kevin Nerney 3 years, 3 months ago
Steamboat is a microcosm of the country at large. If we thought 700 was too important to be left up to the gov't to make a final decision and put it to a vote, why can't we do the same thing with the health care bill? They (Congress) would have to pare it down to just healthcare with no add ons and special treatment for their constituents and make it readable for the average American. That will never happen. The tax code has over 2000 pages hence the reason we hire accountants. The health care bill is also about 2000 pages. So now in order to reduce unemployment a new job will be invented, that of a person to interpret healthcare, who's entititled to what, when, where, and how.
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
JustSomeJoe Of course you've heard of vote early and often, it's the Chicago way. Now tell me about the conservative groups indicted for voter fraud, yanno like the Acorn style fraud. As for Rassmussen, I know how accurate their polling results were in 2008. They were THE most accurate. Link follows. http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:ggGLy2IYzB0J:www.fordham.edu/images/academics/graduate_schools/gsas/elections_and_campaign_/poll%2520accuracy%2520in%2520the%25202008%2520presidential%2520election.pdf+rasmussen+fordham&hl=en&gl=us 45,000 Americans die each year blah blah blah left wing talking points. Prove it.
Jeff Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago
Dear Doctor stormpeakco:
How will it be "more efficient and accessible?" You will likely see more patients, be reimbursed less, and enjoy having your treatment decisions questioned by someone who possesses half your IQ. (line cast)
Please respond without hiding behind a pseudonym.
dave mcirvin 3 years, 3 months ago
liz,
http://harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-lack-health-coverage
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
Dr. Stormpeakco Are we talking about the same government? You say efficiency, I think Medicare (broke) SS (headed to insolvency) PO broke and so on. Seriously the country is so burdened by bloated bureaucratic induced debt, No one can possibly think the federal government does anything efficiently. Seriously? CBO may be nonpartisan, but they can only work with the numbers as presented.
Jeff Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago
Caterpillar:
Another evil, greedy corporation that does not agree with the pending legislation.
http://www.chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/03/caterpillar-health-care-bill-would-cost-it-100m.html
This is a jobs stimulus package. A stimulus for any country other than the USA.
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
StormPeakCO Justsomejoe said 45,000 people die each year because of lack of HC. Every person in the US has access to HC. Everyone. Your study claims 45,000 people die a year because of a lack of insurance. Unprovable. .
stillinsteamboat 3 years, 3 months ago
I just came across this article in The Wall St. Journal. Sorry "Fred and Just some Joe ", Rupert Murdoch didn't dictate this article but it is worth reading.
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/109122/is-socialized-medicine-bad-for-your-wealth?.html?mod=family-love_money
skidattle 3 years, 3 months ago
We just can't afford this; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/iraq-war-seventh-annivers_n_506119.html
JustSomeJoe 3 years, 3 months ago
So lizard, you reject the harvard study based on CDC numbers on what basis? Is that something you feel in your gut, or did you not like the sample size, or what? I pulled my number from the Harvard study, so i didn't feel I had to repeat stormpeakco's post to the link.
Sure everyone has access to health care, it's the affordability that might be the issue for most. Perhaps not in your world, I suppose you got to choose to whom you were born and where. Or please, enlighten us with an AynRandesque story of you and your bootstraps fighting and overcoming the MAN.
Your Rasmussen statistic is pretty funny. A sample size of a poll done three days before the election proves that they were the most accurate in a poll three days before the election. Ergo, they are the most accurate? Did you follow Rasmussen before the election? You can use pollster.com to quickly narrow down the 2008 national election to show only Rasmussen polling for the six months before the election. They were consistently an outlier in the polling trends, but bully for Rasmussen for nailing it three days before the election. Rasmussen is the admitted Republican polling outfit and consistently trends republican. Throwing out a Rasmussen poll to prove a point only shows your naviete or your outright willingness to ignore data not fitting your ideology.
You are joking on republican voter fraud right? Voter Outreach Of America hired by the National Republican party trashing democrat's voter registration (http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=2421595), and the list goes on with many instances of voter fraud perpetuated by republicans - try an easy google search like republican voter fraud. What's even funnier is the meme on ACORN you are perpetuating. The "pimp" video has been already been discredited and ACORN cleared of all charges. The pimp video was found to be heavily edited, it was all BS. Look, there's plenty of voter fraud on both sides, you just choose to conflate your points and ignore the rest.
the_Lizard 3 years, 3 months ago
You said 45,000 people die yearly because they have no access to HC. Utter BS Every person in the US including illegals have access to HC. You may have meant HC insurance . I find that questionble too. "Part of the trouble with reports like the one from the Urban Institute is that they cannot do the kind of thing we do to test drugs or medical procedures: divide people randomly into groups that do and don’t have health insurance, and see which group fares better. Experimental studies like this would be tremendously expensive, and it’s hard to imagine that they’d attract sufficient volunteers. Moreover, they might well violate the ethical standards of doctors who believed they were condemning the uninsured patients to a life nasty, brutish, and short. " http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/03/myth-diagnosis/7905/
Rasmussen is a very well respected pollster, and has never "admited"to being a Republican pollster. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/31047_Page2.html Your example of Republican fraud was alleged, was there an indictment?
Huh? what does "the pimp video" have to do with voter fraud. I'm talking about indictments brought against Acorn in Nevada and most recently Wisconsin.
As for Ann Rand, bootstraps and overcoming the MAN (whose that) LOL you have no idea..
Fred Duckels 3 years, 3 months ago
Right now everyone has health care, but they have to go the charity route to achieve it, when they would prefer it as an entitlement.
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
Tell me Fred, have you ever been offered health insurance at $3000 monthly because you had cancer 20 years ago? Has your business looked at bankruptcy due to insurance premiums?
Mine has due to the cancer that I survived over 20 years ago. It affects the price that my employees have to pay and my ability to manage my small business.
Health Insurance reform is necessary and needed. By my informal count here on this article the poll stands at 7-6 in favor.
Routt_County_Guy 3 years, 3 months ago
Thank you, John Salazar, for your support of this Health Care Bill, and for voting not only for what our country needs but also for voting the way your constituents (who put you into office) wanted you to.
I also deeply respect all of the Democratic senators as a whole, regardless if they vote yes or no on this bill, because they all will vote as they think their constituents want them to. Also, shame on you, GOP for following your leader, Mr. Boehner, like a herd of sheep. It's amazing to me that your whole flock always thinks and votes exactly the same. What Boehner says, you do. So in essence, you are all one big Boehner. Which includes the Rush Limbaughs, seeuskis, Duckels, and all other fascists of this world.
If this bill passes, I heard that Rush Limbaugh says that he will leave the United States. If he needs help chartering this bus, I will be more than glad to pitch in for his exit! The only shame of this will be is if there is one empty seat.
John Fielding 3 years, 3 months ago
There is no doubt that the health care system needs reform. Whether this bill handles it well is debatable. But when insurance companies routinely deny care or coverage and so many suffer as a consequence something must be done.
If we choose to drive, we are required to obtain insurance, If we are bad drivers, we still must have insurance, and they are required to sell it to us, albeit at higher prices.
The same could hold true for health insurance. Those who have chronic conditions or engage in high risk behaviors (smoking, drinking, overeating, lethargy) could fairly be asked to pay more for the coverage. If they were paying out of pocket it would cost them more anyway.
I don't hold this out as a solution, merely an observation. The problems are fixable somehow. At least we are finally actively perusing alternatives.
.
dave mcirvin 3 years, 3 months ago
Sunday evening's House vote will be historic. Like fine wine, social security, medicare and medicaid need some aging and tweaking to make it even finer....
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
@Routt_County_Guy ,
It appears that you Progressives are about to be handed the euphoric passage of Government run health care and your dreams of free or cheap medical coverage is in grasp. It is most unfortunate that your ilk has made this into a sports event as your #3 Boss, Dingy Harry Reid, has compared today as the final seconds of the basketball game and you are being fouled by the opposition. What a sham and what a shame. You are parroting the left wingers who have taken Rush Limbaugh's statements out of context. What he was referring to is that he, Rush and many others, would in the near future be leaving the USSA for medical attention In other Countries. It is a fact that Medical Professionals are going to move their practices out of the old USA and into non fascist Countries where they are able to provide the World class medical care that they spent their youth training to do, I have been told this first hand by Doctors. Certainly there are Doctors who want this bill to pass but just losing even 10% of US Doctors would strain this system and it is predicted that up to 45% will leave or retire rather than practice under a Government rationing system. Your hatred for the free market Capitalist system that is being destroyed by your beloved, and as you claim, deeply respected Democrats is going to come back to haunt you and your children and everyone else who comes down the road. If you believe in what you are being sold to you by your beloved leaders without even knowing what it is, as it was stated by Obama and Pelosi you will know once it is passed, then who is the lemming here? On a final note: I hope I am wrong and you, entitlement nanny state types, are right that this will be great for the Country but I spent enough of my time reading the bills that were presented by both Houses to say I believe this Country is in deep trouble going forward. One of us is going to eat crow in the future. I wish it wasn't so and it didn't have to be this way.
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
more scary stories from the right and seeuski. Now the Doctors are all going to quit being doctors. Just like the death panels and the birther conspiracy this is just another scary bedtime story.. Now it is 8-6 in favor
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
Unlike your unprovable anecdote of your employees health insurance costs being effected by your 20 year old health issue, I am quoting what I've been told. Sorry. My personal experience along with others in my immediate family who have had cancer and heart disease are completely opposite of your story. Never been denied and never been dropped or have never had premiums go haywire. It's usually someone who had no coverage and then got sick or who has let their coverage lapse. These are issues that could have been legislated without a Government takeover and the Republicans tried in vein over the years while the Dems always blocked their attemptes. But we shall see how this thing works out for you Mr. suit.
seeuski 3 years, 3 months ago
oops attempts
John Fielding 3 years, 3 months ago
Trump,
I,m not sure exactly what your count reflects, but my position is in favor of reform but opposed to this bill.
If for no other reason, this bill is flawed because of its exceptionally partisan nature.
Legislation of this magnitude ought to have a more inclusive base of support.
stillinsteamboat 3 years, 3 months ago
Just wondering: How many of you opposed to this bill "Do Not" have health insurance or medicare insurance at this time? It seems to me those opposed, almost without exception, are "well off". Most of my neighbors who are VERY vocal if not downright RADICAL in their opposition to healthcare reform are wealthy people or stand to inherit money. Is there a connection? Just wondreing.
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
Also, how many opposed are self-employed or small business owner/operator? Or do those of you opposed work for an employer that provides a group policy?
John, my informal count is just those views expressed on this particular forum. It is very likely miscounted but was intended to show that even on this forum the actual numbers do not reflect the constant polls from Rasmussen and FOX news. While Americans remain divided on this issue, the true numbers are more in favor of this reform than the Republicans would lead us to believe.
John Fielding 3 years, 3 months ago
I for one have no insurance, am far from wealthy by conventional material standards, and have little to expect from inheritance except the opportunity to pay taxes on the family farm or debate with my siblings whether to sell it for development.
No opportunity for great wealth there either. I live in fear of losing what I have been able to gain in a fell swoop of medical bills, instead of leaving a modest inheritance to my family.
But I remain opposed to this bill for the reasons I stated above. If it is defeated there will be another, probably better one. This issue will not go away. I hope not.
Maybe like the 700?
.
Clearsky 3 years, 3 months ago
Hey France still has the number 1 HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. We are 41st.
ybul 3 years, 3 months ago
Trump, I am opposed. Bill does nothing to reduce the true cost of Insuring us. It will eliminate preexisting conditions, hopefully eliminate in network out of network disparities in coverage.
However, as a small business owner I might close my doors if required to purchase insurance for employees as right now they make more than I and we individually can by insurance for less than as a small business pool.
My coverage with back surgery has gone up from 2400/year three years ago for my family of three to 3000/year. I put money into a HSA in order to cover the costs that arise due to my 10000 deductible.
The BILL address' nothing in ways of reducing health care costs and the dems walk in lock step with their leader or are bribed in order to vote for this ill conceived legislation, which I might help to file a lawsuit against its constitutionality based upon the fact that special rewards were given to Nebraska and LA.
Most medical bills are preventable with better lifestyle choices. If one really wants to bring down the costs of SICK CARE, then we need to encourage people to live healthier lives and not punish those who do so, by requiring them to be burdened with the poor choices others make.
We have an obesity epidemic in this country and by making all insurance policies high deductible HSA's and giving the poor a $500 contribution to their accounts and allowing them to keep any money not spent on health care , once they reach a threshold of 2-3 fold their deductible in their account, would create a desire on the insured to stay healthy.
Also require the doctors to provide an estimate of their services. I have been fortunate enough to realize I paid the Doctor $2000/hour after service was rendered even though I asked for an estimate of services rendered prior to my visit. Why can a doctors office not operate under the same rules as every other business in the country? On that note when a doctor makes a mistake and punctures the bile duct on someone, why are they not responsible for the charges of their action as opposed to the insurance. Without involving the patient in negotiation of the costs that would never be charged to the doctor. In my mother in laws case it cost medicare $30,000 for their mistake. My friends insurance paid when it happened to her.
ybul 3 years, 3 months ago
Storm Peak Doc,
Is Social Security like fine wine and aged too long, in that it is so underfunded that it has turned to vinegar? Same with medicare, how about state pension funds which are seeking out higher returns with tax payer money so that they do not have to raise employee contributions or taxes in order to cover their deficits.
Maybe like in Sherwood forest where Robin Hood stood up to a corrupt government we need to stand up for the taxpayers who are further being burdened.
In reference to the WALL ST Journal cited above, so those returns on investment that are cited are in terms of US Dollars.
12 MONTHS AGO (1 EURO = 1.194 US DOLLARS)
500,000EUR = $597,000 US Dollars
TODAY (1 EURO = 1.33 US DOLLARS)
So while investing in Europe might be a good strategy as the dollar has lost 10% in the last year to the Euro. If one were investing with Euros to begin with then you would have lost about 7% in order to have a 3% gain in terms of dollars. It would have been better to park your dollars in a European bank and earn 0% interest than investing in Eurozone stocks.
It is easy to find a way to manipulate facts and figures to justify what one wants to prove. Yep those socialist countries are facing similar debt problems the US is, unfortunately the US federal, state and local governments face severe pension shortfalls which will most likely lead to high inflation in order to wash those away.
Maybe we need to start thinking about how to empower people to take charge of their lives as opposed to how the government can further take care of me and tell me what to do, how to run my farm and other grand ideas on how they think the world should work.
We need no more of the EDUCRATS trying to lead us to the promised land, lets figure it out locally and individually as that is where the best decisions come about!
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
YBUL. $3000 per month...... not per year. That is $36,000 anually plus a $5000 deductible for one person.
Problem, I have not had symptoms or treatment since 1986 and yet the insurance companies still think that I should be forced to pay that much. If I add myself to my companies group plan then that rate applies to each and everyone of my employees and not just to me. Also, This quote was for an individual policy not family coverage. I was also offered coverage at $800 monthly with an exclusion on ALL future incidents cancer. What kind of coverage is that?
How many of you could afford $36K annually just to maintain adequate health insurance??????
This bill may not be the answer to all problems health related but it is a positive step in the right dierection. Contrary to Seeuski and the Republicans, this plan does NOT represent a Government takeover. It is more like the regulation that is so needed in the financial markets.
Jeff Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago
Here's the House debate on C-SPAN. I hope they have a roll call vote later. I have C-SPAN in one window and NCAA.com in another (volume muted). While I was typing this, things became quite contentious. Regardless of your opinion, this is worth watching/listening.
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx
ybul 3 years, 3 months ago
While I empathize with you, I am not sure that I agree with the bill. I agree that you should not be paying 36000/year for your premiums and preexisting conditions should be covered.
I disagree that this bill is going to do a darn thing to reduce coverage. I believe that we need people to take back their health and we need people to pay for all health care expenses, be involved in ensuring that health providers do not overcharge individuals and they act responsibly in order to maintain good health. Eat well, exercise and not do stupid things.
Just heard on CSPAN that Florida residents will recieve medicare advantage and yet no other state resident will have such benefits. That is a crime they are bribing representatives in order to vote for the bill, happened on an issue for Nebraska and Louisianna.
ybul 3 years, 3 months ago
coverage should be costs in my last post. Also in that people pay all expenses and have a cap on their annual out of pocket expenses, their insurance covers all costs above that.
bigfatdog 3 years, 3 months ago
Vote them all out in November. None of them are working for us anymore!!! The system needs a wake up!
trump_suit 3 years, 3 months ago
Jeff,
What would you like us to call members of the Tea Party when referring to their views?
ybul 3 years, 3 months ago
Unfortunately George, Maybe you should seek to understand the opinions of those who do not hold the same ones as you. Ron Paul has been interviewed by green organizations on the environment and his policies were far better than any others I have heard. His ideology is what drives the movement and others try to ride on his coattails. Palin is a joke, but one in which the media focus' on to discredit ideas that are not in line with their own, even though if one digs deeper into those ideas they are very close to what we all hold near and dear.
mmjPatient22 3 years, 3 months ago
Who's up for a little topic refresher? Anyone? Ok, well here ya go.
What's everyone's stance on our state's Attorney General John Suthers signing Colorado onto the national lawsuit, along with at least nine other states, that is poising itself to stand in the way of Obama's healthcare plan?
For the un-informed: http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=135084&catid=339
Jeff Kibler 3 years, 3 months ago
Tea Partier would be appropriate. You assume a lot. I rarely listen to Rush. I think Palin is unqualified for federal office, as is Obama.
Liberals claim they are enlightened, open-minded, diverse and accepting. Really? Diverse and acceptable only as long as you buy their biases, ideals and opinions.
The Tea Party has been aggressively maligned by the dominant liberal establishment mass media. I've never attended a Tea Party rally, but I've talked to a lot of folks who have. These people are hardly "foolish." Descriptions of the attendees sound surprisingly diverse, given the MSM's rampant misrepresentation.
So, let's celebrate diversity instead of celebrating perversity.
Of course, only conservatives are guilty of hate speech: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/liberal_hate_speech.html
Clearsky 3 years, 2 months ago
France has the number 1 healthcare system in the world! No amount of arguing can change that fact.
mmjPatient22 3 years, 2 months ago
True. However, a certain amount of Cruise missiles could fix some of that. Does France have WMD's?
Clearsky 3 years, 2 months ago
I'm afraid so but not as many as we (U.S.A.) have. USA is number 1 in WMD.
Clearsky 3 years, 2 months ago
If you study the life of Barack Obama you will see that he is the most ideal leader our country could hope for. The problem with great leadership is the quality of the followers. Everyone should read his autobiography, Dreams of my Father. It will make you realize how good most of us had growing up.
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
The most recent polling on Obama and Democrats' Health Care Plan (as of 3/21) Favor/Oppose: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
CNN: 39/59 CBS: 37/48 Rasmussen: 41/54 FOX: 35/55 PPD: 45/49 NBC/WSJ: 36/48 Pew: 38/48 AP: 41/43 Gallup: 45/48 AVERAGE: 39.7/50.2
We participate in a representative republic wherein the government derives its authority from, and is supposed to submit to, the consent of the governed. To wit: paragraph 2 of the Declaration Of Independence:
"That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people, in assembly, ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, the attachment to, the community, have the right of suffrage, and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for publick uses without their own consent, or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the public good."
If ever there was a "publick" policy imposed absent the consent and despite the clearly stated opposition of the governed, this is it. And it's only the tip of the iceberg. Every government power grab establishes a new threshold for the next. That's why it's critical to repeal or otherwise demolish Obamacare - because it's built upon assumptions about central government power that won't limit itself to insurance mandates.
"We the people tell the government what to to. It doesn't tell us... As government expands, liberty contracts." ~Ronaldus Magnus, 1989
mmjPatient22 3 years, 2 months ago
Well said Sep.
mmjPatient22 3 years, 2 months ago
They voted common interest? I guess it's not an obscure interest...I guess...
housepoor 3 years, 2 months ago
http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-Margin-Americans-Support-Healthcare-Bill-Passage.aspx
jimmmmmm 3 years, 2 months ago
Sep-
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/poll_health-care_reform_more_p.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm?csp=hf
http://bunkerville.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/poll-health-care-reform-more-popular-after-passage-than-before/
stillinsteamboat 3 years, 2 months ago
Why don't you conservatives take up a new cause, how about you address all the "patriotic Americans" who are screwing all of us by hiring illegal immigrants in their restaurants and especially ranches. I see a: "HOWS THAT OBAMA THING WORKING FOR YOU"? sign on a guys ranch who hires numerous illegals. How come nobody is screaming about that. Guess who pays for the illegals' healthcare and that of their children, wives , cousins, aunts, uncles, .....We all pay for these patriotic americans to hire their cheap labor. Let's discuss this problem, I think undocumented workers are breaking the back of this country
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
55% Favor Repeal of Health Care Bill:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
seeuski 3 years, 2 months ago
For Clearsky and his love of Dreams From My Father:
In his own words.....
Obama - student of Marxist professors - his own words by sp43vms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7zWQMHLFY&NR=1
Clearsky, thanks for sending me on this search, I never knew Obama had these disturbing feelings with regards to race.
SHOCKING Obama words: bombshell anti-white audio uncovered! by DKdeepThroat
seeuski 3 years, 2 months ago
If people study the poll numbers that are being presented by a few people here one can see that they are being manipulated. Add the number of Independents and the Republicans who were for and against and compare to the number of Democrats and it makes no sense. Are you saying that there are a much larger number of Democrats in this Country that offset the negatives? Or are these polls bogus? I'll stick with Rasmussen.
"Just before the House of Representatives passed sweeping health care legislation last Sunday, 41% of voters nationwide favored the legislation while 54% were opposed. Now that President Obama has signed the legislation into law, most voters want to see it repealed. "
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
stillinsteamboat:
You're preaching to the conservative choir re: immigration. Glenn Beck regularly rips into American employers of illegals, calling them 'modern day slave masters' (paraphrasing from memory).
The fact is that when conservatives weigh in on illegal immigration, we're derided by those on your side of the aisle as racists. Remember the Minutemen?
And if you're so sure the rancher you mention is breaking the law, why not put your money where your mouth is, stop whining, and turn his a$$ in?
mmjPatient22 3 years, 2 months ago
Well said Sep. Maybe this country could benefit from a little more vigilance on the part of American workers? Maybe we, the workers, need to start snitching-out the employers out there that choose to hire an illegal worker over their fellow citizenry?
mmjPatient22 3 years, 2 months ago
I'm sure ICE would appreciate the help.
MrTaiChi 3 years, 2 months ago
Someone I know runs an excavating business in the West.
He checks the documentation of Mexicans who want to work for him as laborers. He suspects that they are bogus, but outwardly give him cover for hiring them.
When asked why he hires Mexicans rather than Americans he told me, "If I have a pile of dirt that I want moved and I tell a Mexican to move it, he's over there with a shovel in seconds doing it. If I ask an American, he asks, 'Why' and then asks if it can't be done with machinery."
Like Germans and their Turks, we have lost the edge that makes Americans willing to do grunt labor. We are the victims of our own social success and self-esteem educational programs that teach children to have such inflated ideas of their own worth and dignity, that menial labor is beneath them. People not motivated by hunger or fear of failure can not be persuaded to take these jobs. I'm glad that Americans don't feel on the cusp of personal disaster enough to swallow thier pride and get their hands dirty, but at the same time recognize the reality that people who cold still afford to go out to eat during the Great Depression, remembered thereafter that service was great then.
If you want meat to eat that is reasonably priced or want a house built at a cost not reflecting a college graduate laborer's wages, then support reform of guest worker status or keep looking the other way when Mexicans do jobs that your children won't.
stillinsteamboat 3 years, 2 months ago
Sep, No response from INS. I think they are overwhelmed by the sheer numbers. It's not so much that Americans don't want the jobs (although I agree with MrTaiChi about Americans inflated sense of their own worth) It's the math. A guy would much rather pay an undocumented worker $9.00 an hour than pay a citizen $12.00 an hour. That's the bottom line. It's about GREED!
stillinsteamboat 3 years, 2 months ago
The undocumented worker also gets paid cash much of the time, so no taxes paid by the employer.
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
USATODAY 49% Favor 40% Opposed
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm
Gallup - this poll seems to show more support amoung younger americans. 49% Favor 40% Opposed http://www.gallup.com/poll/126959/Majority-Poor-Young-Uninsured-Back-Healthcare-Bill.aspx
blue_spruce 3 years, 2 months ago
A major reason for the current bill was to include all Americans' in the system before it tanks. I am frankly surprised that more major news media didn't pick up on this. There is no way we can support the current system - with all its waste - into the future. You don't have to be an economist or math genius to see this! Just look at the numbers! Not even close. Its just impossible – with or without the bill! So, ethically, it made a lot of sense to include everyone - so when the **** hits the fan, we don't leave 20M + people in the cold. Come on people – can't we agree that ethically this is the right thing to do?!? We are going to have to start to learn to live "within our means" in terms of healthcare – again, with or without the new bill. Do we really need to spend so much money on a terminal cancer patient so we can extend life by 3 months? Do we need to be so aggressive with mammogram screening when the data shows that there are no better results with this practice, for instance? We are going to have to start rewarding doctors by performance – results – and not just how many procedures they order...and we have to stop spending SO much money on the end of life stuff. NOT an easy pill to swallow. But again, it made a lot of sense to get everybody “in” so when we are FORCED to really re-make the health care system, all Americans will be part of the solution, not just the well to do. If the health insurance companies can reign in the “system” then great. Otherwise we may indeed be looking at single-payer as the only mechanism that can change the fundamentals of how we deliver health care in this country.
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Gallup - Regardless of whether you favored or opposed the health care legislation passed this week, do you think the methods the Democratic leaders in Congress used to get enough legislation — were [they] an abuse of power, or were [they] an appropriate use of power by the party that controls the majority in Congress? http://www.gallup.com/poll/127052/Blame-Spread-Around-Post-Healthcare-Vandalism-Threats.aspx
Among independents, the divide is 58-36, with 3% undecided.
jimmmmmm 3 years, 2 months ago
seems pretty simple to me-if you've got control of the house, senate, and Presidency, you can pass legislation. What part of that is so hard to understand, and since when is that an abuse of power?
Scott Berry 3 years, 2 months ago
JustSomeJoe, would you please explain to everyone your declaration "45,000 American die each year from lack of health care. Our tax dollars pay for them in the end." Does that mean they didn't have insurance and then went to the emergency room to die? So they did have care before dying and we still paid for it? And, where did you come up with 45,000? Please explain this whole concept and how it is validated. I don't know of anyone who has died because they were intentionally denied health care. However, I do have friends in Canada that have had elderly family members denied treatment for cancers, resulting in their premature deaths. Isn't that what the "death panels" here are in place to do?
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
jimmmmmm:
The health care reconciliation bill signed by the President was passed through a legislative maneuver popularly known as the "nuclear option." Here are some prominent Dems just a few years ago (including a soon-to-be President & VP) passionately arguing against the procedure - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjdbjr... characterizing it, among other things, as "the tyranny of the majority." Do you agree that these Democrats (including Barack Obama and Joe Biden) are grandstanding, whining hypocrites? If not, why not?
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
Sep, If you are opposed to the reconcilliation process used by the Democrats to pass health care reform, do you also oppose the same reconciliation process that was used to pass the Bush Tax Cuts??
Goose or Gander?
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
trump_suit:
Assuming facts not in evidence. I have spotlighted powerful elected officials who deliberately deploy tactics they have only recently thundered against as "immoral" and "tyrannical."
Hypocritical, yes or no?
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Apologies for going off topic; this is too amazing not to share - here's Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson on Friday, expressing to Admiral Robert Willard his concerns about a proposal to station an additional 5000 Marines on Guam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczI...
The money quote begins at 1:16. The Cliff's Notes version: The Honorable Representative Johnson is fearful that the additional Marines & their families will sufficiently unbalance the tiny island so as to tip it over.
I. Sh&t. You. Not.
What's really scary is that he's probably smarter than the people who elected him. Considering they're the same voters who elected Cynthia McKinney, it's likely a safe bet.
Kudos to the Admiral for his measured, respectful reply. I don't think I could have managed it.
jimmmmmm 3 years, 2 months ago
Sep, are you saying Politicians are hypocritical? I'm not sure where the quote came from, but it's a good one for DC. "If hypocracy was a virus, they'd all be dead."
Anyway, it's a legal legislative process, kind of like the Filabuster that the Republicans have set records for in one year. Is it right? Debatable.
seeuski 3 years, 2 months ago
trump does not understand the difference between appropriations and and unconstitutionally mandating legislation that is commerce changing. The reconciliation process was not meant, as (D)Byrd so eloquently stated when Clinton wanted to use it for health care, as a shield for commerce changing legislation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ormXLyyJtr8
This mans statement back then is just as important now.
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
Reconcilliation has been used in the following bills by both Republicans and Democrats.
Quote from: http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/22/must-read-reconciliation-your-guide-to-the-game/
" Reconciliation was originally intended for politically difficult deficit reduction measures – i.e., spending cuts &/or tax hikes. Short-handed, people refer to reconciliation measures as having to deal with dollars.
Reconciliation has been used 22 times since it was created, a majority of that time by Republicans."
Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983 Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed) Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996 Balanced Budget Act of 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed) Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed) Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005
Trump fully understands see. The use of reconcilliation in the Healthcare reform was in fact constitutional even by it's own rules as the CBO determined that this bill did in fact reduce the federal deficeit. You may or may not agree with that analysis but the bottom line remains that same.
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
(continued)
The fact that you are so opposed to this legislation does not defacto make it a abuse of power by the Democrats. This process has been used by the Republicans to bypass Democratic opposition more than the Democrats have used it to bypass Republican opposition. The only real problem I see here is in your perception of the legalities. So sorry, but your perception of the process is skewed. If its use in the healthcare bill concerns you, talk to your Republican representatives that changed the process to allow its use.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-does-reconciliation-work-in-congress-2010-1
"Originally, this process was limited to bills passed to cover gaps between budget resolutions. In the 1980s, however, they came to be used for big omnibus budget resolutions that sought to reduce the budget deficit. In 1996, the Republicans changed the rules so that reconciliation could be used for almost any bill affecting spending or the collection of revenue. Nonetheless, it is limited still limited to budgetary matters by a 1985 rule (altered a bit in 1990) called the Byrd Rule, named for West Virginia Senator Robert Byrd who has long been a stickler for defending the Senate's rules and prerogatives. This limitation, among other things, allows any Senator to object to any provision of a reconciliation bill as is "merely incidental" to the budget."
While on the subject, check out this federal judges decision on the Bush Wiretapping programs that I have been complaining about. Seems the federal judiciary agrees with my opinion. (Yes I know it is a nytimes article. That does not change the decision)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/us/01nsa.html?hpw
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Standard liberal discussion tactics from trump_suit & jimmmmmm: deflect and obfuscate, but for heaven’s sake, don’t answer the question directly. When Bush 41 famously broke his “read my lips” pledge, the naked hypocrisy arguably cost him a 2nd term. If I proclaim, loudly and publicly, that eating meat is horrendous and meat eaters are tyrannical, immoral and abusive - and then sit down to a steak, there would be no question as to whether or not to label me a hypocrite.
The reason trump_suit & jimmmmmm refuse to apply the same standard to identical behavior by the politicians they support is because the answer makes them uncomfortable. The refusal of voters – on both sides of the aisle – to call BS even when they’re choking on it is why we have career political hacks. They (the hacks) know how apathetic and two-faced many of their constituents are, and it’s generally a safe bet that a “lesser of two evils” calculus will be applied by those who support them. The behavior you excoriate as "tyrannical" and "abusive" in 2005 is applauded and celebrated in 2010. Instead of trying to hold our leaders to a higher standard, we enforce the lowest common denominator and enshrine mediocrity. We are no longer honest enough to call a spade a spade. Instead, we call it (using jimmmmmm’s evasion), “debatable.”
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
I agree that both sides cry foul anytime this process is used and will expound upon their disagreement with the rules when they do not support their view of today. Neither side has any high ground to stand on here. Term limits would help.
This rule was put in place so that progress could be made on divisive issues. The reasons that it was put in place remain today. The goverment simply cannot allow itself to become completely paralyzed and absolutely has to have a process to come to a conclusion when the 60 vote majority cannot be created for whatever reason.
What process would you envision to replace this rule?
jimmmmmm 3 years, 2 months ago
Umm Sep-So your right, and I'm wrong, therefore it's not debate, it evasion. How 'bout this. I don't agree with you one bit on this, and I'll ask again, how is it an abuse of power, when the House, Senate, and Pres. are controlled by one party, and vote to pass legislation. Call it what you want Sep, but your pissing in the wind. You should maybe read Trumps post again, then your post, then reflect.
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Reading comprehension - or more specifically, lack thereof - rears its childish head once again.
I have never stated that I regard the "nuclear option" to be unconstitutional. I did link to a Gallup poll which suggests that a clear majority of Americans believe the Dems overstepped.
For the record: Reconciliation is EXPLICITLY constitutional. I was profoundly disappointed 5 years ago when W & the GOP caved to the Dem whining I posted earlier, and refused to use that EXPLICITLY constitutional procedure to get W's judges voted on.
It is the Dem whining that I've spotlighted here (how any Dem/Lib could watch that youtube compilation and not be embarrassed says, perhaps, something significant about the American left). I've labeled it - accurately - as hypocritical. You guys aren't honest enough to even acknowledge it.
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_fifty_vote_senate
"But the reconciliation process has been used for plenty that did not reduce deficits. Both of President Bush's tax-cut plans traveled through the process. And the very senators who speak reverentially of the filibuster now, voted for reconciliation then. Judd Gregg, in fact, voted for reconciliation every time it was used in the Bush era. "
Both sides whine. I acknowledge it and also agree about it being hypocritical..... Why is it any different now than in the past?
housepoor 3 years, 2 months ago
Because Sep is against covering children with preexisting conditions.
jimmmmmm 3 years, 2 months ago
The problem is Sep, a "majority of Americans" is from your poll, that you seem to like to post every other day. As we've all seen, polls can be posted to show just about anything, from either side of the coin. That shouldn't be much of a suprise to you, as opposing poll numbers have been posted.
Here is an interesting article...
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001815.htm
"The surprise declaration of thanks followed just weeks after a CBS poll found that "of people who support the grassroots, 'Tea Party' movement, only 2 percent think taxes have been decreased, 46 percent say taxes are the same, and a whopping 44 percent say they believe taxes have gone up." As it turns out, Barack Obama as promised delivered tax relief to over 95% of working American households. Political statistician and analyst Nate Silver put the impact even higher, with the 2009 stimulus tax cuts reaching 98.6%."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6201911-503544.html?tag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesAreaMain
Well it looks like a majority of Americans don't have a clue what's going on. Would you agree? Probably not, but you can keep posting your Rasmussen polls if that makes you feel better.
Enjoy your cheesecake.
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
I've also posted polling data from CNN, NPR, NBC, WSJ, Pew, AP, Gallup, PPD, the Washington Post, & Quinnipac. That there is a national consensus against this boondoggle is undeniable. Your response, essentially, is "Rasmussen! Right wing fear mongers!" Or, "Polling results that dispute my politics means Americans are clueless!"
Go on posting that, if it makes you feel better.
Here's an interesting polling result. The question (posed after HCR was passed): Do you feel the country overall is heading in the right direction or wrong direction?
Right: 39 Wrong: 58 Not Sure: 3
http://dailykos.com/weeklypoll/2010/3/25
Survey conducted from 3/22-3/25 for the Daily Kos Weekly State of the Nation Poll. Daily Kos: damn right wingers!
jimmmmmm 3 years, 2 months ago
You may have missed my point Sep! Polls tell you what you want to hear, and you'll listen to whatever poll helps you and your debate. What I'm saying is, I don't give a flip about polls. I can find, and have found, polls that help my debate-big freagin woop right. The only poll that really made a difference, and will continue to make a difference, was the election-agreed?
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
Thats funny, because even Rasmussen shows a roughly 10% increase the number of voters who strongly approve of Obama since Healthcare was passed. Still low and flat at an overall 47% approval, but what else explains the jump in those who strongly approve? The strongly disapprove numbers stay flat at roughly 40%.
These are certainly not stellar numbers but the do seem to indicate something other than displeasure with the passage of healthcare as it relates to the presidents approval rating.
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
No, I get your point entirely. The reality is that you DO give a flip about the polls. It's why you went to the trouble of tracking down polling results you liked & so you could post them here. It’s why you only get your knickers in a twist when I link to polling results, and trump_suit gets a pass.
Do you know why I avoid the mmj threads on this forum? It's because I don't give a flip about them. But maybe I should follow your lead and troll thru those topics to announce how MUCH I don’t give a flip about them. As a bonus, I’ll engage in tactics I claim to disagree with to demonstrate my disagreement! Yeah, that’s the ticket!
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Obama is the most charismatic President since Reagan. He's bright, attractive, articulate, has a Norman Rockwell family.. his approval numbers oughtta be thru the roof. The reason they're not is that he & the Dems misinterpreted the election results. They believe it to have been a mandate to implement the most leftist agenda of many of our lifetimes. That HCR was so difficult to pass, even with historic Congressional majorities, indicates, in my opinion, how off-base they are; how out-of-touch with a majority of Americans. 2009 wasn't about wealth redistribution; it was a repudiation of Bush.
And while the President is charismatic & compelling, our national legislators aren't so fortunate. One would think that Congressional success in implementing the agenda of a popular president would redound to the lawmakers who made it happen.
Congressional approval numbers, via RealClearPolitics:
Approve/Disapprove
18.5/76.2
That's an average, by the way, of surveys taken by the Washington Post, CBS, FOX, NBC/WSJ, Gallup, & AP.
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Forgot the link to the Congressional survey: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html#chart
charliecigar 3 years, 2 months ago
Well Fidel Castro has given high praise to King Obama for his courage to push his health care bill through at all costs. You can have Sean Penn and Matt Damon. I will take Lizard and Duckels.....
trump_suit 3 years, 2 months ago
I don't supposed you have noticed that even the responders here on the Steamboat Pilot are running in favor of Healthcare Reform?
The Pilot poll is easily manipulated and cannot be held out as reprentative or scientific but???????????????????????
JLM 3 years, 2 months ago
When your favorite pol is behind in the polls, they are meaningless and not following the polls is a mark of courage.
When the polls favor your favorite pol, they are insightful and contain revealed truth as you bask in the adoration of your consitutents.
The real question is ---
Who wrote the healthcare legislation?
Who read it before they voted upon it?
Who really understands it?
How can you possibly believe that it will be funded in great part by the elimination of $500B of waste and fraud in Medicare?
What is your favorite government program overseen by the IRS?
Brian Kotowski 3 years, 2 months ago
Latest from Real Clear Politics, averaging 8 different surveys conducted from 3/19 - 4/7: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
Favor/Oppose 40.4/52.4
JLM 3 years, 2 months ago
"Yes, I'm dumb so eliminating waste and fraud, not to mention a variety of other ills, in the health care system seems like a good idea."
Well I always say nobody really knows anybody like you know yourself, so if George opines he is "dumb", I bow to his wisdom and hesitate to suggest otherwise.
The point, dear one, is that this administration has absolutely no record of identifying and eliminating waste of any kind --- remember "we are going to go through the budget line by line and eliminate waste" ??? --- and thus funding the program by that initiative gives rise to just a smidgen of skepticism.
Who knows, maybe Obama was a superb financial manager when he was, say, a .......................... community organizer?
BTW, George, the legislation is likely written by a left ward leaning think tank who has been working on drafts of it for several years. The point is that the guys who are supposed to be legislating --- that would be the US Congress --- did NOT write it, did NOT read it and DON'T understand it.
mmjPatient22 3 years, 2 months ago
Here's a fun one:
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzI4MjQ3Mzk4MWJkNDkwNWZlYzcwNDA3NmQyNmIxYmI=
As for our legislators ACTUALLY reading the things that they pass.....well, weren't you the one bringing up hurdle heights? Our law-makers haven't read the laws they pass for some time now; mostly it's just tradition at this point.
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