Signs at the top of Creekside Trail warn users of the dangers that may lie ahead on the trail that is popular with downhill-style mountain bikers. Although the official designation of the two-way traffic trail never was changed, for several years a sign at the bottom warned against hiking up it.

Photo by Joel Reichenberger

Signs at the top of Creekside Trail warn users of the dangers that may lie ahead on the trail that is popular with downhill-style mountain bikers. Although the official designation of the two-way traffic trail never was changed, for several years a sign at the bottom warned against hiking up it.

Freestyle downhill biking causing a stir at Steamboat's Creekside Trail

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— The overall message from the mess that has become of the Creekside Trail at Steamboat Ski Area is that everyone is frustrated and eager, both at the same time.

That goes for the downhill freeride mountain bikers who think they had a great venue ripped from under their wheels.

That goes for the concerned homeowners who live at the bottom of the trail and who enjoy hiking up it, as well as the higher ups at Steamboat Ski Area and the U.S. Forest Service, which oversaw the destruction of several unsanctioned freeride “improvements” made to the trail this spring.

“We had some rogue trail building going on there, which had not been approved by the Forest Service, so we just removed them,” said Jim Schneider, vice president of skier services with Steamboat Ski Area. “There’s a lot of energy behind the downhill and freeride thing and we’re working as fast as we can to get new trails built, but they’re not done yet.”

‘Super fun and super fast’

The disappointment of all involved parties involves the dismantling of several jumps that were built into the Creekside Trail, a 1.7-mile branch off the mountain’s popular Zig Zag trail.

Creekside isn’t your normal mountain bike trail, even with the jumps removed. It’s rated as advanced, and steep pitches, tight blind corners and two creek crossings are evidence of why. It feels almost tailor-made to push riders, with banked turns and plenty of places for the adventurous to get air.

The additions made a good trail better, some local downhillers say.

“Pretty much all the corners are blind corners. You’re just going down it, and it’s super flowy and super fun and super fast,” said Doug Steadman, a longtime user of the Creekside Trail. “For people to be hiking up that is ludicrous. Zig Zag is scary enough.”

The town’s eager freeride mountain biking community sees the move as running contrary to what Steamboat Springs hopes to become: one of the country’s premier cycling destinations.

“We’re taking two steps forward, and now we’re taking three steps back,” Steadman said. “It’s just a bummer this has been one of the only legal downhill trails in town. … There are plenty of other trails to hike up.”

The view that the trail was downhill domain was fortified in recent years, even by the ski area. Signs were posted at the bottom proclaiming users couldn’t hike up it. Then, this spring, a ski area trail crew furthered the assumption that the trail had gone one-way by building some of the features that later were dismantled.

Other features were built by renegade trail builders.

“There were gap jumps developed, and there had clearly been extensive rock and dirt work,” said Janet Faller, of the Forest Service. “That wasn’t authorized by the Forest Service. The downhill users kind of adopted it as their own and felt like they had free reign on that trail.”

Thing is, it was never a one-way trail. It wasn’t listed as such by the ski area and certainly wasn’t considered one by the Forest Service, which would need to oversee any such change in designation.

“We can’t say it’s downhill without going through the master plan process. We can’t change the use of our trails,” Schneider said.

Warning signs

The improvements made to the trail were ripped out soon after this summer’s cycling season started, and the trail again is multi-use and multi-directional in name and practice.

“A lot of people like to hike that trail all the time. It was always a multi-use trail and everyone needs to respect that,” said Robin Craigen, who said he finds himself in an uncomfortable position on the Creekside issue.

On one hand, he’s president of Routt County Riders, an organization that has led the charge in what has otherwise been a great summer for cycling activists.

On the other, he’s a homeowner in the Burgess Creek neighborhood at the bottom of the trail and knows full well the dangers that can come with hiking up Creekside if there are bikers coming down not expecting to encounter anyone.

“I’m definitely in favor of directional mountain biking trails. We’re pushing as hard as we can to get these guys what they want,” he said. “But we need to do it in the right way and not by trying to take other trails.

“If someone got injured, that might put the whole biking community on the defensive, and that’s not what we need.”


The solution so far has been increased signage at both ends of the trail. Bright yellow warnings alert anyone entering from the top that they should expect to see uphill traffic. Similar signs are the bottom, warning users that fast cyclists may be rumbling down.

Waiting game

The eagerness of all involved parties relates to the closeness of truly palatable solutions.

This summer’s brouhaha comes even as Canadian trail-building company Gravity Logic continues work on several planned trails that will be downhill only.

“We think we will have one of the best sets of trails in the country or the world,” Schneider said. “The designs we’ve seen will rival many things we’ve seen elsewhere in the industry. We are working as fast as we can to get those trails built.”

The company set up camp in town several weeks ago and scouted the areas designated as potential freeride zones in the ski area’s revised summer trails master plan. Gravity Logic already has marked out several of those trails and run them through the first of several review processes.

Several hurdles remain as the trails must be studied to determine their potential impact on the environment, but if all goes well, construction could start later this season.

“I’m not that familiar with downhill trails, but the trail design is really good and these guys really know what they’re doing,” said Faller, who said if approved, the trail would be open for public comment. “It looks like it’s going to be a lot of fun.

“We’re moving in the right direction.”

That’s something everyone can agree on.

“Getting Gravity Logic in here and pushing forward is a great thing,” Steadman said. “I’m 33 years old, I’ve been here for eight years, and I’m ecstatic that we might get great trails that I don’t have to go two-plus hours to ride.”

Comments

insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

I have been riding creekside since it was built. It has, in my opinion, always been a downhill directional trail. It is dangerous and wrong to have it any other way. People at the corner of Burgess Creek road, and others, should access the mountain for uphill hiking or biking just up the road at the base of thunderhead lift. Craigan should realize this and not be pushing for the two-way designation.

It's good to see planning for more trails that are downhill specific. I will believe it when I see it. It was not that long ago that Steamboat would not let you up the gondola if you had more than three inches of travel and pads on.

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cara marrs 4 years, 1 month ago

We have been riding Creekside as a quick loop from our house for years and years and only have seen 2 or 3 people in all of that time (2 hiker, 1 biker) traveling uphill. For tourists signs are good b/c they would not know Creekside is not safe to hike uphill, since the old sign was removed, wasn't there a sign years ago saying no uphill traffic? For locals...come on everyone knows that this is a mainly downhill trail with or without all of the bridges and recent downhill additions. We have 100's of trails to choose from that are better suited for hiking, its 1 short trail. There is no need to be traveling uphill on Creekside at all and if you live on BC road you are extremely close to other trails on the mtn.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

Someone told me just the other day that they overheard the person in the ticket office recommending creekside as a nice shady hike. Craigan needs to stop pushing his private agenda to have a hiking trail for his vacation rentals. It's a downhill bike trail, it was built to be a downhill bike trail.

I hope Janet doesn't drag this out to much. Building new downhill specific trails will make people that enjoy going downhill happier. It will make people that are scared by people in pads and helmets happier, and safer as well. It is needed to bring our resort to par with others.

Did I mention there needs to be a sign at the bottom of Valley View trail that says danger downhill bike traffic, and the hiking trail is 50' to your left. A lot of people hike up Valley View not knowing it isn't the hiking trail. I am all for valley view being two way, there just needs to be one sign if they are going to make such a sign effort on creekside.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

I have a great idea!!!!

Lets make Creekside Trail a destination trail for biking and hiking. we'll advertise it all across the nation and at all of the local bike and hike shops and their websites.

we can get thousands of tourists to come to steamboat JUST to hike and bike this beautiful trail!!! what a great boon to the economy.

we could even have shuttle drivers and tour companys drop hundreds and hundreds of people off at the lower trailhead EVERY DAY!!!we could also just instruct people to walk or bike up Burgess Creek road

we'll be sure to tell the visiting hikers and bikers that they can easily park all along Burgess Creek Road and at the plentiful parking lot at the lower trail head.

Dogs welcome!!

I know that all of the home owners and neighbors along Burgess Creek Road will welcome the influx of tourists and users of this fantastic gem of a trail.

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John Fielding 4 years, 1 month ago

.

That a great idea with the small modification of not putting all the emphasis on just one trail but offering hundreds, with dozens of good access points.

.

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

Bikers these days!!! If they aren't pissing about some vehicle squeezing them on the road, then they are moaning about some pedestrian wanting to use a trail!! I am continuing to loose alot of respect for the whole lot of you!!! The entitlement that you all expect is astounding.

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Andrew Bisbee 4 years, 1 month ago

Bottom line.. hiking on trails that people downhill on will lead to injuries or worse. It is just not a good idea. The sign at the bottom should go back up before some unknowing person hikes their way into a serious injury.

Not really the way to bike town usa.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

Jk...please. CREEKSIDE SHOULD NOT BE A HIKING TRAIL OR TWO-WAY. There are many other choices right up the road.

   Have some respect for someone that wants to go downhill without seriously injuring someone else.  There are hundreds of places to hike in this area.   Creekside is the closest thing to a downhill bike trail we have.  It was built for that purpose, and for many years had a no uphill traffic sign at the bottom. The town and resort was founded on going downhill and jumping on skis.  Downhill biking is not that different, and quite enjoyable. I am looking forward to downhill specific trails, I just hope I'm not to old to enjoy them by the time they happen.
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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

hi john,

can you tell me where these dozens of good access points will be?

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

I get the idea from reading these comments that you have not read and re-read this article. If you had you would understand the following:

Creekside is on USFS land. It is clearly stated in this article

"Thing is, it was never a one-way trail. It wasn’t listed as such by the ski area and certainly wasn’t considered one by the Forest Service, which would need to oversee any such change in designation."

jk's comments are right on - the sense of entitlement expressed with regard to this trail is astounding. If the cycling community is to be able to build relationships with the rest of the community there needs to be greater respect shown to all.

In seeking new trails there is a process that needs to be followed that respects the rights of land-owners, land-managers and other people that use these trails. In the case of Creekside this process has not been followed and the result is a situation that has brought bikers into conflict which is not good for any of us. This is not a situation that I can personally support and I am confident that this is not the direction that the Board of Routt County Riders would support.

Another thing that is mis-represented in your comments is that I am not pushing for Creekside to be a hiking or multi-use trail. We have moved way beyond that because of the changes that have been made to the trail over the last 3 or 4 years. I am only pushing for the correct process to be respected. If we need to change the designation of the trail, we need to follow the process.

I agree 100% with Doug Steadman's assessment of the ride:

“Pretty much all the corners are blind corners. You’re just going down it, and it’s super flowy and super fun and super fast,” said Doug Steadman, a longtime user of the Creekside Trail. “For people to be hiking up that is ludicrous. Zig Zag is scary enough.”

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

cont...

I have heard that there have been some near misses on the trail already this summer. I have the impression that most of the people that live on Burgess Creek Rd are now avoiding Creekside - it's just too risky. Imagine the outcry if we were talking about this happening on Spring Creek Trail? Creekside is no different. It used to be a beautiful trail to hike on and the chance of meeting a biker on the trail was not that great and the speeds traveled back then made most encounters easy to negotiate.

This trail has evolved into a whole new animal in the last 3 - 4 years. Banked turns have appeared, jumps have been created, and with the new breed of free-ride biking equipment the speeds traveled on this trail mean that the chances of a serious accident occurring is only a matter of time.

Who sanctioned the work that was done, or was it renegade trail builders? It won't matter until the first major court case and then the attorneys can do what they do best - make someone pay.

I have spent way too much time fighting for free-ride trails for free-riders to argue in this forum that I have my own agenda. My concern is that this group of cyclists, by their actions and lack of respect for others make all cyclists look bad. At a time when we are trying to build support for cycling and making Steamboat more bike friendly we all need to realize the consequences of our actions. Similarly, if we disregard the rules of the road (most commonly cited in this forum responding to biking articles) we can expect that everyone else out there will offer all of us a little less respect too.

If you want respect, you have to give a little too...

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John Fielding 4 years, 1 month ago

. 1999,

The dozens of good access points are already there, near the hundreds of trails.

.

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dave pieknik 4 years, 1 month ago

Bike Town USA... I thought the mountain had "officially declared itself" in the freeride business? Just kidding- I think everyone realizes that this will take time, but I am sure most are sick of waiting. I stopped wearing out the left sides of my tires (buying a summer pass) in 2003- when I was told that my bike only had two chain rings and I was making it back to the Gondi terminal faster than the 12-15minutes it should take. Change starts on the dirt with ALL involved. Put some directional only hours on Creekside until we have other trails. Be pro-active in injury prevention rather than writing about it. This next part is critical sorry. To the the Mountain- make some changes today, why wait. It's been over 10-12 years late. MAKE SOME CHANGES! And not in the front office- on the dirt.
RCR- you wanted this project and this comes with it. Help the mountain adapt today to insure someones safety tommorrow. Suggest some hours of operation for one direction traffic only. I don't see another solution for Creekside. jk- There has been alot of crying, but I don't see the same entitlement issue... Most of the cyclist who bike on the mountain have purchased a pass, which entitles them to ride there. I have never bought a pass to hike in the forest? I think what most cyclists want is to not run over a dog, person, or both. I can't comment on the road issue. I have been hit several times and thats what happens when you ride on the road with vehicles. You ride enough, things happen.

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dave pieknik 4 years, 1 month ago

Sorry, forget to include th USFS- get with the mountain and make some changes today.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

Uphill traffic on Creekside is a HORRIBLE IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not that I can't handle sharing the trail with other people, I share every other trail in Routt County with other hikers and bikers.

The point is that someone, their child or dog is going to get SERIOUSLY injured. That trail is unlike many others in this entire county - blind corners with drops and lots of trees to hide what is downhill from the rider or even uphill from the hiker.

Even hauling down the mountain on a bike can be quiet not giving hikers below you any idea someone is coming. If you have never been on Creekside in your life and start hiking up with your family, you are in for a rude surprise.

We need to keep this trail one way out of everyone's SAFETY! I could ride that trail in my sleep; I know every single turn and rock. I would never hike up it, EVER. There should be a skull and crossbones sign at the bottom saying hike at your own risk because you may die.

Honestly Mr. Craigen, I am very disappointed in you. Of all the people in this argument I can't believe you want hikers on that trail. This is a personal matter for you and your rich friends on BC Road wanting some hiking. Seriously, you know biking. Why would you want families and dogs walking right into disaster? There are so many other trails hikers can go to with way better views and less bikers looking for fast downhill specifically. Bad times Mr. Craigen, seriously. VERY DISAPPOINTED in you personally trying to get this going you know what happens on that trail.

We are talking about one single trail to have directional traffic on based on SAFETY not greed. It is just a matter of time before we have a serious wreck on that trail. If you were flying down that trail and hit a dog, both dog and rider would be injured or DEAD not to mention all of the trees that line the trail for the biker to put their face into while avoiding dogs and hikers.

THIS TRAIL SHOULD REMAIN ONE WAY- LET'S THINK ABOUT IT

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John Fielding 4 years, 1 month ago

.

First I must say some trails should be reserved for specific uses, through official processes.

Until such designation is accomplished all users have an obligation to not endanger others.

So, like skiing, it is irresponsible to go faster that visibility and maneuvering ability allow.

And when you come flying around that blind corner into the family out hiking, ditch it.

.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

Instead of getting all emotional and attacking me please take the time to read my comments above where I have tried to explain what was not addressed in the article. This is about the process and the lack of respect that some riders seem to have for it.

I am not advocating for hiking on that trail - we are way beyond that. I agree with your concerns about safety - they are the same concerns that I have as a biker riding down that trail, and the same concerns that I would have if I attempted to hike up that trail. I see this from both sides and what is missing here is a little respect from the biking community acknowledging that this was never a "Downhill Trail" or "Directional Trail" or a "One Way Trail" - such types of trails do not yet exist on the mountain. If you want to make a trail directional you have to work through the USFS, and you have to do it the right way. As you know the ski area is working with Gravity Logic to build trails like this that will be ready to ride next year. These trails are being planned through the Trails Master Plan which was recently revised after numerous meetings with RCR representatives convinced the USFS and Ski area that this was needed.

The sense of entitlement is inappropriate - you are hurting your own cause.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

John - maybe when I am hauling down the trail I can just jump over the family and dog. Hopefully someone has a camera in their hand ready to shoot the action.

I am always riding with caution as you should always expect a possible animal, human or even downed tree.

Have you ever been down Creekside? Maybe when I mountain bike it with my grandma I will ride slow with caution.

Until then, it is a bomber trail and I am going to ride it like crazy. My mountain bike only has one speed - fast.

So hikers be ready with a camera because I may jib off your dogs head over your kid while hopefully not taking grandma out while she is looking at the trail map. Hey is this the trail that takes you to the gondola?

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

RCR - there is no entitlement here.

The trails are for everyone to use - but this is simply a matter of safety. You can avoid uphill traffic pretty easy on most trails in the entire county.

Creekside is just a different trail.

Again, this is simply a matter of SAFETY. I don't want to hurt any dogs or people and I am sure they don't want to see my front tire up close.

If the two way rule is going to keep, we need to have a serious warning sign at the bottom of the trail. If you are from out of town and have no idea what Creekside involves, you are in for a surprise.

Maybe a warning to hikers to be aware of fast downhill bike traffic ahead. Hike at your own risk and be aware!

No matter what arguments we throw back and forth, we all know this is a fast bike trail and it is just a matter of time before someone gets hurt. It is not to play favorites to bikers, just a smart call to keep people safe.

How many accidents need to be reported before we change the signs back to downhill traffic only?

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

To say this was never a one way trail is misleading. The ski area thought this was a one way trail. It was signed as a one way trail. It had improvements as a one way trail. It was used as a one way trail with the encouragement of the ski area which has the USFS permit for the property. It was a one way trail except that it had not officially been designated by the USFS as a one way trail.

Why RCR would argue that this was never was a one way trail is baffling.

It is ludicrous for RCR to have any position on this issue other than this needs to be a one way trail.

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boater1 4 years, 1 month ago

sounds like robin is too conflicted in this case to be making these decissions as he has a huge interest on both sides. not a whole lot different than jon quinn opting out of a city council vote on atira when his company, nw data, does work for atira. obviously city council and rcr are very different structured organazation, but maybe robbin should consider this.

as for the sign at the bottom. it the 2 way sign stays maybe it should also have an addition for hikers that states expect rapid downhill bicycle travel, be aware & use caution. ...that's how the trail is used so why not state that. locals know it but a tourist might think twice about hiking up or atleast do it w/ awareness.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

LWMS...you are the epitomy of ignorant arrogant (and now I will add entitled) steamboat biker.

"I will do whatever I want regardless of the law and common sense. safety of others be damned.....I need to have FUN"

Grow the hell up

"my mt bike has only one speed....fast."

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

I am not making decisions - this is USFS land under management of the Steamboat Ski Corp. They make the decisions, not me or RCR. I can opt out of the debate if you like, but this is an opportunity to have a conversation about the issues rather than continue to spread false rumors about where everyone sits on the issues.

There has to be a way forwards on this issue - if you read my comments above we are not in disagreement about the current risks. It is not my decision about how the trail is designated - the facts are the facts. What has occurred for the last 3 - 4 years has created a dangerous situation so something has to change as biking does not need the negative fall-out that will follow. Until the trail is designated as directional you have no choice but to observe that the trail is multi-use.

It is my hope that we can build credibility for biking on this town. To do that I need us all to be on the same page about the right way to do things.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

Party like it's 1999... you are right who cares about anyone else!

I think that is just how you read into my comment.

I am always looking out for others and objects while riding. I don't care if you are superman, blind corners are just that... blind. That is a steep trail with minimal room for error in some spots.

I am not anymore entitled to any trail more than any other biker, hiker or dog.

It is a simple fact that most good bikers will be cooking down Creekside. We can all share all the trails, this trail just happens to not be a safe choice to go up.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

this is what I read "into" your comment.

John - maybe when I am hauling down the trail I can just jump over the family and dog. Hopefully someone has a camera in their hand ready to shoot the action.

I am always riding with caution as you should always expect a possible animal, human or even downed tree.

Have you ever been down Creekside? Maybe when I mountain bike it with my grandma I will ride slow with caution.

Until then, it is a bomber trail and I am going to ride it like crazy. My mountain bike only has one speed - fast.

So hikers be ready with a camera because I may jib off your dogs head over your kid while hopefully not taking grandma out while she is looking at the trail map. Hey is this the trail that takes you to the gondola?

the law says these people have a RIGHT to be on the trail. As you have a right to be on the trail. where your rights end is where and when you are ENDANGERING PEOPLES LIVES

YOU need to look out for them and they need to look out for you.

Have you ever been hit by a biker going full speed down a hill?

do you know that you would most likely KILL a child if you hit them?and most likely seriously injure or KILL an adult?

is that cute or cool to you?

it may sound funny to you but you sound like an idiot punk who has no concerns for anything and anyone but your joyride.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

99 I almost feel like you are arguing my point now, thank you!

I think you are getting more upset than necessary. Thanks for calling me out on being an idiot punk, you know me so well!

The reason I am even wasting time posting comments here is because of concerns for other people. I get on my bike to have a good time, the last thing anyone wants is a collision.

When I head out on a ride, I like to go fast just like a lot of people. No matter what trail or street you are on, you need to always look for other people/objects.

I have never been hit by a biker going full speed. I do have a sweet helmet and pads if you want to try it out sometime.

You are right, you would probably KILL a child if you hit them if not the same to an adult.

That is my point here brother! I know you think I am being "cute" here, but I am trying to say that is where things are headed. That is a tough trail to be watching for uphill traffic while not killing yourself over a rock or tree root just trying to make it down the trail. And how about those blind corners?

There are many people who bomb that trail much harder than I do. That is the nature of that trail, fast and bomber. You can change the trail, but you will not change how hard people ride it. Even a novice rider who is not trying to rally the trail can still cause an accident. Creekside is not like Valley View or Howelsen where it is much easier to see some one coming the other way. People ride how they ride.

It is not even a selfish reason for bikers to not want uphill traffic on this trail. Simply a matter of safety; too many people going too fast with little room for error and stopping in certain places.

I especially worry about dogs hiking in front of their owners, because they do not know to watch out for bikers and do not have predictable behaviors.

Anyway, my arms are tired from beating this dead horse.

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grundy 4 years, 1 month ago

So, who decided to take the one way signs down? Seems like an incredibly irresponsible decision, regardless of the official USFS designation. And Robin, were you advocating for bikers when this happened? Where was RCR when we needed them?

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

How about RCR take the position that this had been treated as a one way trail and that it will work with USFS to make it a one way trail?

How about RCR emphasizing the trail's historical usage and even signage by Ski Corp as a one way trail?

It appears that RCR via Robin Craigen is speaking as an advocate of those that it want it to be a hiking trail because RCR is not only failing to advocate that it be a one way trail, but won't even acknowledge it's history as a signed one way trail.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

LWMS..your sttitude of "well, I'm just still going to go as fast as I can and thats that'" is sad and dangerous.

so great...if you kill some one you'll be able to say "see told ya so"

Bravo!!!

and if you kill someone the hikers will also be able say "see..I told you so."

Bravo!!!

so you say you are worried epecially about dogs but do NOTHING to change the way YOU ride.

BRAVO!!.

the fact is everyone needs to work together.

hikers being stubborn and insisting on hiking up that trail KNOWING the chance of a fast moving biker is a sure thing is ludicrous.

bikers being stubborn and INSISTING on continuing to ride THAT trail as fast as they can is ludicrous.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

Ludicrous speed ahead!

You bet I go as fast as I can unless I ride with you sometime.

I just finished a lap on Creekside and thought the whole time about the dangerous corners and rocks on that entire run. Looking up the whole time I still think a crossing with an uphill rider would not go well. And I know every turn and rock on that run very well.

Yep, I still feel the same way. That is a trail for hauling ass, you are on the brakes the whole time otherwise. This is the one trail on the mountain you can do that, and trust me LOTS of riders do just that.

**I did notice there is a sign that says something about extreme downhill biking ahead that is at the bottom of the trail and warns hikers of danger ahead. So unless you are an extreme ludicrous hiker, hopefully this sign still conveys the message this trail probably isn't the best call.

99 can you give me lessons on riding slow sometime? Ha ha

BRAVO!

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grundy 4 years, 1 month ago

Emerald undeniably demonstrates RCR's exclusive historical dedication to xc trails. If Robin advocates for freeriders now, it is only because of constant pressure from more visionary locals. Personally, I doubt the sincerity.

The USFS actively descriminated against freeriders by categorically denying trail building requests until the mt. turned the whole deal into another money making scheme. Yay, more brutal marketing!

Asking people not to bomb creekside so people can hike it is like asking them to leave fresh powder for people who can't ski. There's nothing special about crksd as a hiking trail.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

This land is our land, this land is your land, this land is made for you and me.

Creekside was built as a downhill bike trail, has evolved as a downhill bike trail, and should be a downhill bike trail.  90+% of people asked would think Creekside is a downhill trail.  Anyone denying that there was ever no uphill signs on creekside either has not been in town long enough, or is out of touch.  It is basically up to Janet to get off her high horse and call Creekside a downhill trail, and this should be supported by our local bike organization.

Robin said:

"jk's comments are right on" ... Way to support bikers.

"This is not a situation that I can personally support and I am confident that this is not the direction that the Board of Routt County Riders would support."... The personal bias alone is not surprising, but to state in one sentence that your organization supports downhill or freeride biking , and then not support an issue like this rediculous. It just shows your leadership and organization is a joke.

"I am not pushing for Creekside to be a hiking or multi-use trail"...really?

"Imagine the outcry if we were talking about this happening on Spring Creek Trail? Creekside is no different."...just shows how out of touch you are.

"It won't matter until the first major court case and then the attorneys can do what they do best - make someone pay."... Sounds like you want this to happen.

Ski Corp, USFS, RCR(not that they would have a stand), please take down the two-way signs on creekside. Build the two new downhill trails before you require $20,000 in bridges on creekside so hikers don't get their feet wet, and please do it sooner rather that later.

Bike town USA is already Winter Park. We are not even close. They have 150 miles of trails on the mountain, and I would guess 20+ miles of bike path.

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boater1 4 years, 1 month ago

"How about RCR take the position that this had been treated as a one way trail and that it will work with USFS to make it a one way trail?

How about RCR emphasizing the trail's historical usage and even signage by Ski Corp as a one way trail?

It appears that RCR via Robin Craigen is speaking as an advocate of those that it want it to be a hiking trail because RCR is not only failing to advocate that it be a one way trail, but won't even acknowledge it's history as a signed one way trail."

agreed. if rcr is the voice of bike riders in the valley then they need to speak the hell up (this and humble ranch access). if they are just a volunteer trail builders then give up the push for bike town usa and just quitely build trails. you CAN"T have it both ways! sorry but bowing to every group's wishes and not taking a stand get you nowhere.

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boater1 4 years, 1 month ago

my take is robbin is a high end property manger who caters to the desires of ultra wealthy guests. he is a yes man who must kiss a$$ to his clients...it's the nature of the biz.

that kinda of personality does not fly for what rcr hopes to achieve w/ btusa.

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

Ouch!! Robin your own cronies are turning on you, now do you understand why cyclists get the label of arrogant, and self entitled? We want the road! We want the trails!! We will call the cops on you if you get to close!! We will run you down if you hike on our trails!! Everyone bow down and kiss our A&$!!!! Absolutely amazing!!!

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

thats what I'm talking sbout JK.

truly amazing anyone would want to promote sbs as BTUSA with that attitude.

and then invite thousands and thousands people of like mind.

can you imgine thousands and thousands of more people with LWMS attitude?

FUN TIMES!

we'll have to save this exchange for the summit.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

as I remember ...creekside initially was a two way trail. it was only in the last few years that the one way signs were added.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

JK, You are clueless, and obviously very anti biking.

All I want is Creekside to be recognized for its historic usage, and design intent. It had signage for many years that stated no uphill traffic. The two-way signs, and promoting it as anything other than a downhill bike trail is a mistake.

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JusWondering 4 years, 1 month ago

Robin, I think it is very clear why many non-riders are so opposed to those that ride. It is the attitude of too many in the forum! If you don't like what do get the @#% outta my way.

As I read your comments I found myself saying "right on". I could not agree wit you more.

You have a respect for current laws and the process to change them. You have a respect for all recreation users and do not seek to push others away strictly for your own agenda.

It is only through attitudes like yours that the volatility between bikers and all other users will be subdued. The attitude from many posting in the bike related forums shows the arrogance that so many lament about.

All, I did not read Robin's post as being in favor of turning creekside into a hiking trail. I read it as someone who respects the process, knows that the trails were modified illegally and seeks to do the right thing. As I biker myself I echo the comments and only hope others with rational minds will follow suit.

The only thing that will come of the current attitude is making usage of trails like creekside illegal for bikers. When someone is thrashing down a mountainside trail and a 8 year old tourist is hurt or killed who do you think will lose the privilege on the trail; the hiker that clearly has a smaller environmental impact on the trail (when was the ast time a hiker dug out a jump?) or the biker?

The USFS is placed in charge of land management for all users and for stewardship over the land.

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JusWondering 4 years, 1 month ago

..con't If you think this can't happen ask the jeeps & other 4-wheelers that have seen access to roads slowly eroding. Some would argue that extreme left-wing nuts that have made that happen. While I agree that is part of it, users have not made it easy for the USFS to keep roads open by making illegal roads, tearing up the lands, and disrepecting the other users.

Creekside users beware; the exact same thing can happen if you don't start showing some restraint and working WITH the process instead of IN SPITE OF IT.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

juswondering, I agree ...Robin has shown respect for the process and states that the downhill only is illegal as it stands. he is simply trying to comply with the law

the USFS...after reading these postings...will have plenty of ammo to simply make creekside a hiking only trail.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

Just wondering if there is a place, or trails for those that enjoy going downhill to recreate, if there will be less conflict, less chance of collisions, and a better experience for all users. I have never expressed a get out of my way attitude, have a high respect for the environment, the process, and all forest users.

RCR, and Steamboat needs to support the only single trail in Routt county that was designed and built to be a downhill bike trail. Robin may say one thing in his above posts, but his opinions and actions prior say otherwise.

The last thing I want is someone to get hurt. My 67 year old dad (who does ride a lot) could be riding down creekside at a moderate pace and run into someone, or an unleashed dog, hiking up. It could be a tourist having the time of their life riding down the trail that hits someone. Please respect the trail for what it is. I don't agree with the rouge trail building that took place, but to push for two-way usage, and to recommend it as a hiking trail is just the wrong response.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

Just a matter of time before someone gets run over.

Yes, even a 67 year old or a touron can do the running over. Just making it down the trail alone is a lot for some.

Just not a safe call on this one small trail (echo.....)

Let's bike like it's 1999

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

insbsdeep, I'm not anti biking I am anti arrogant entitled biking attitude!! What happens when your 67 year old father is slowly negotiating his way down creekside and this goof lessworkmoreskiing comes bombing down basically out of control and plows into him??

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JusWondering 4 years, 1 month ago

insbsdeep. I don't disagree with you. But if the process is not respected we will all lose the ridng privilege. All it would take is a high profile and highly public accident and it would be over; hikers will always win out.

The attitude represented here in this forum is what will cause its closure more than anything. It is also why so many people detest riders and would rather run us off the roads than look at us. It is also why hikers would let their dog leash (assuming they leash in high traffic areas) string across the trail in front of me hoping to "clothes line" me.

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

jk and 99 have you ever ridden Creekside?

I feel like you have no idea what happens on this trail.

Try it sometime, safety first.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

JK, my dad is not that slow, has ridden fish creek years ago, and rides in Sedona most of the time. Why is it that downhill riders are always out of control? Is that how you see downhill skiing?

For more than 15 years this trail had wrong way signs at the bottom. Many years multiple signs. It was the only trail ever built in Routt county for the purpose of downhill biking. Now because of pressure from Robin, and retaliation for the unsanctioned trail work, it is pushed as two-way.

I am not entitled to anything but free speech. I just thought I was lucky enough to have one little trail on the mountain where I could let it go a little without worrying about someone hiking up it with their headphones in or dog off a leash. The process is what it is, I am all for it, but in this case it seems like they decided to change the historic designation without any process, and it has created a dangerous situation.

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

There is a huge difference between a slow downhill rider and an uphill hiker/biker. The slow downhill rider will be seen by the faster rider before the blind curves and so on. Thus, the faster rider is not going to crash into the slower rider.

The uphill walker/hiker is a completely different situation because that person is coming from the opposite direction which nearly eliminates the chance to be seen.

No sane person would come down a trail wanting to have a collision. But on a trail like creekside, there are areas of limited visibility and to truly safely make every corner expecting a strong uphill hiker/biker at the worst possible spots would require going downhill at a ridiculously slow speed.

In reality, a skilled downhill rider would probably be able to make the emergency move to avoid the collision. The greatest danger of a collision would be from a modestly skilled tourist riding at a modest speed, but unable to avoid the collision. Quite probably the biggest danger is the new two way signage because some tourist might try riding up it only to become totally surprised that it is not at all suited for uphill traffic.

Obviously, there is no good reason to complain about downhill features being removed since they were added without USFS permission. But this has been a one way trail for many years. I remember that at least 10 years ago that the bottom had signage saying not to enter. Suddenly noticing this trail had never been officially designated as a one way trail is not a good reason to sign this a two way way.

If SB aspires to BTUSA then this is an example of how not to be a bike town. There has to be common sense. Bike groups should be working with USFS to get this officially designated as one way. USFS needs to have common sense and allow unofficial one way signage while the trail get designated as one way.

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

ins, I am only saying, as in downhill skiing, you need to ride in control. If I had made the comments about road bikers and my truck that lwms has made about hikers I would have been crucified up and down this thread. To be honest I could care less about the designation of the creekside trail, but when cyclists continually break the rules of the road/trail they deserve a little banter about their actions especially when they act as entitled to everything as they do!

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

Break what rules jk?

Why does everyone for the two way argument act as if bikers are acting entitled? We are trying to keep the peace and not end up with someone or an animal being injured.

As scott said "No sane person would come down a trail wanting to have a collision. But on a trail like creekside, there are areas of limited visibility and to truly safely make every corner expecting a strong uphill hiker/biker at the worst possible spots would require going downhill at a ridiculously slow speed."

If you ride Creekside, you know this. An expert biker can be ready for most situations, but blind corners are blind corners

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

i just got back from riding down creekside as I have been doing since it was built.

I bet I have ridden creekside this summer alone at least 20X.

great riding today!

super fun downhill trail!

the flow is a little off though. too much breaking to peddling. it makes a better uphill trail. we should concentrate on really good flowy no breaks all pump DH trails and leave this one to the hikers and uphillbikers

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bandmama 4 years, 1 month ago

From now on everyone has to wear a loud cow bell (MORE COWBELL) or a continously blow a loud whistle. Problem solved going up or down hil!!

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

less, If you are going to fast to avoid someone else on the trail, ("So hikers be ready with a camera because I may jib off your dogs head over your kid while hopefully not taking grandma out while she is looking at the trail map."), then you are breaking the rules. Do you ride to and from the mountain less? If so I'm sure you break the rules of the road along the way, just like 90% of all the other cyclists out there.

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

Scott, thanks for that expert assessment of the situation your insight is very helpful in this situation. Very well put.

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jk 4 years, 1 month ago

Wow as I look back that last comment could have been taken for sincere!

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lessworkmoreskiing 4 years, 1 month ago

Yes jk I am going to jib your dog over your kid through the river over the woods while your grandma looks for the gondola on the trail map. It is this sweet move I have been trying to perfect.

Clearly this is some bs I made up as a joke. If you know anyone that can pull my sweet stunt off let me know and I will take the picture.

It appears you don't know Creekside trail very well.

I would consider myself an expert level biker. On any other trail in the county I would feel confident in avoiding someone coming the other way; biker or hiker. Even when I am absolutely hauling ass.

You need to read comments from those above who obviously know this trail and how it rides. It is just not a trail that is easy to ride slow; you would be on the brakes the whole time and probably send yourself over the handlebars trying to brake over some questionable roots in the road. And as someone stated above, even a novice bike rider on that trail riding very slow would still likely have incident with someone coming the other way; especially in the blind turns. There are many areas with rocks and roots sticking out that take enough concentration to navigate. So basically novice to expert, danger ahead.

Would you send your kids or family up that trail for a nice hike in the shade? I know I wouldn't. Let's be real, there are plenty of other hiking trails that are considerably more fun and considerably better scenery - not to mention no bikers. Not even sure what the point of hiking that trail is - a sweet view of Burgess Creek lift? And even biking up it; a serious challenge for most people.

It doesn't matter who is coming down that trail; beginner to expert there is clearly danger ahead.

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John Fielding 4 years, 1 month ago

. . Can't we just fix the blind corners? A few minuets with a chainsaw works wonders.

.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

Robin,

I would like to hear if RCR's official position is that creekside should not be a downhill directional bike trail, and specifically why. I have to disagree that it was never considered such by Steamboat, considering they placed wrong way signs at the bottom for 15 years. Was it, or was it not built for that purpose?

The current signage, and insistence on two-way designation is dangerous, and an accident waiting to happen. What is the process to change it on the official master plan, and why is our local bike club not supporting this?

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

George,

Thank you for having the courage to identify yourself in this forum. The Pilot/Today should re-think it's policy on the anonymous commenting that allows people to slander you in public with no concern for how they might personally be judged by others. I may be overstating the relevance of these comments in the conversations that flow through Steamboat about the issues of the day, but I am concerned that the lack of accountability undermines the possibility of any mutual respect between citizens on divisive issues.

For your comments, I am surprised at you. I can assure you that I have not deviated from a position on these issues that is fully supported by the RCR Board. It appears that you are more influenced by the (anonymous) comments in this forum that attack me personally and have not read or understood my comments. The Creekside Trail happens to be in a neighborhood where I live and have lived for 13 years. In that time the trail has changed, biking has changed, signage has changed, attitudes have changed. Very little was done the right way and that should be addressed in a way that does not leave cyclists looking like the bad guys. My business interests have nothing to do with this.

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JusWondering 4 years, 1 month ago

"This summer’s brouhaha comes even as Canadian trail-building company Gravity Logic continues work on several planned trails that will be downhill only."

It sounds to me like those involved are working on a resolution that riders may be even more pleased with. Seems like a decent concession to close one trail in exchange for multiple new ones. Ones that can be new and exciting to ride. Ones built and designed with riders in mind.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

The official position on Creekside is clearly stated in this article by the USFS and Ski Corp. Interpretations by bikers on it's designation, based on their historical use is not the right way to get a directional trail. Other trail users, that have been there all along, need to be in this conversation. Hikers are not being introduced to this trail. They have been there all along. They are residents, people who live and work here, just like the bikers. A public process has to be followed to change this trail to directional, and I am confident that the Board of RCR would support this IF a public process were followed. Keep in mind that a public process, as required by the USFS, holds no guarantees for either side and they could rule that this trail is too dangerous for any biking to occur, and we could also lose this trail, just as we would be asking the USFS to exclude hikers.

The "wrong way" signs that had been around for a while were not always there - I know that for a fact.

I have stated my concerns above about safety, so no need to repeat that.

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

When all the RCR can agree upon regarding bike trails is that there is a public process to designate trails then RCR is not an advocate for bicyclists, but merely a spectator.

It is also RCR's policy to be a spectator regarding trails at Humble Ranch instead of being an advocate to gain the promised access that $950K of public funds was intended to provide.

Note that in both cases, RCR has chosen to not publicly present the facts of the situation that would argue for access, but has instead chosen to present the side of the situation that argues against access.

Those seeking a bicyclist advocacy group should thus not expect any such activity from RCR. Those that want a local bike advocacy group that works towards providing a better and safer bicycling experience would appear to need to form their own group.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

Creekside is not a really good Dh trail anyway. It is far too brakey which is evidenced by the numerous brake jack areas, washboards and totally braked out turns.

a good DH trail allows for minimal braking while relying on pumping. no brakes no peddling.

creekside should be left for hiking and uphill biking.

or course it was NEVER intended as a DH trail only. The "no uphill access" signs are reletivly new.

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 1 month ago

1999, I know that in the year 1999, the bottom of creekside had no entry signs. I know this because that is when I first rode it. I had previously seen the signs at the bottom from the road which I thought meant that it was private property without public access. I recall it being sign overkill and with the adjacent trail obviously being used, I thought there was a property owner upset at the trail's usage. Thus, I remember being extremely surprised upon completing it and seeing those signs behind me.

I think the signs back then were not "no uphill access", but more like "no entry" and maybe even "no trespassing".

I have not paid attention to the signage since then. Maybe we can develop a history of the signage from other people's specific recollections.

I think the history of the trail is most certainly as a one way bike trail. Since it was built before the modern definition of a downhill trail, there is no reason to think that it can be rode via pumping and not using brakes. It was just a fun way to come down the mountain. It was most certainly used for years as a one way trail coming down the mountain and was neither a hiking or uphill riding trail.

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grundy 4 years, 1 month ago

Creekside is not a good hiking trail either. It is far to creeky, as evidenced by the numerous water crossings filled with water.

A good hiking trail allows for minimal wet feet, relying on bridges or dry ground. No water crossings, no wet feet.

Creekside should be left for moose, deer, & other wild game.

Of course it was NEVER intended as a hiking trail. The presence of humans on it is relatively new.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

13 years is not long enough to know that the trail was built 20 years ago, and was built as a directional downhill bike trail. I seem to recall some older summer trail maps that stated that it was one-way.

If anyone cares, I rode Creekside twice today, and it was outstanding. The recent rain as made it nice and tacky, no dust, it was almost like a powder day.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

I rode Creekside today too!!!

The rain did indeed make it perfectly tacky. The numerous brake jack sections and rutted out corners due to riders braking are a bummer. But still fun!

I remember for a while Ski corp DISCOURAGED downhill biking on the mt I remember Creekside was indeed intially a multi use trail.

I could be wrong but I just don't think so.

and even before that it was a game trail turned hiking trail until ski corps started loading bikes. it was a way to hike up on skis and hike on your feet far before it had seen a biker

The fact remains...it was changed from multi use to downhill only WITHOUT USFS APPROVAL>

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

I forgot to add that Ski corp would NEVER have appointed a DH only trail as at the time they were adamantly DISCOURAGING DH RIDING on the ski area trails

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

George, I am sorry that you feel the need to express that under my leadership RCR has “become irrelevant, if not outright detrimental, to bicycling in this community.” It is amazing that you would choose to slam the efforts of so many in this community which have improved biking so much in this town (or are you just pushing buttons…).

I am proud to highlight some of the most recent activities of RCR:

TRAILS: - RCR is helping to build two major new trails on Emerald Mountain – the Beall Trail on the BLM land which will connect the Ridge Trail with other Emerald Mountain Trails, and the Rotary Trail which will add another 4 – 5 miles of prime single track, including some free-ride features, in zone 1 of the BLM land swap parcel. - RCR was the successful grant applicant for $35,000 to build the Beal Trail and has partnered with Steamboat Springs Rotary Club who raised $7500 for trail construction following RCR attaining 501c3 non-profit status - Free-ride Trails are under construction on the ski mountain following meetings initiated by RCR to get the USFS and Steamboat Ski Corp to realize the potential of these trails. The trails master plan was revised to provide a massive amount of land for potential future free-ride trail development and an MOU for community partnership in the new trail construction is being negotiated. - RCR continues to maintain existing trails and look for new funding opportunities to improve the trails that we already have including increased opportunities for beginner / intermediate riding and adaptive trail uses.

YOUTH CYCLING: - RCR supported a successful grant application that netted $16,000 in Federal Funds for Safe-Routes-To-Schools. RCR continues to work on projects to make it safer for our children to ride to school. - RCR supported the SSWSC Competitive Cycling Program through a $2000 donation to help provide greater opportunities for entry to their race training programs. - RCR also sponsored the SSWSC Youth Cycling Program with up to $1000 to lower the cost of entry to RCR family members.

MEMBERSHIP: - RCR Membership is at an all time high and looks likely to top 500 this year. More people in the community are seeing the potential of what RCR has achieved to make Steamboat a better place to ride and are joining up through our website (www.routtcountyriders.com). - More individual members, family members and corporate members have joined as they see that collectively through RCR they can help us make the riding better here.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

cont...

  • RCR Jerseys – the 2010 Jersey is the most successful yet with a 100% increase in sponsorship and a sellout of our first order run with a second run arriving in September.

MAPPING PROJECT: - RCR just produced the first ever mountain bike trails map for the area. The map was produced entirely by RCR volunteers in partnership with the USFS, Steamboat Ski Corp, BLM, City of Steamboat Springs, Routt County and other land managers. - The mapping project is a key component of the Economic Development Biking Initiative. The committee is providing a valuable inventory of existing trails and helping to identify future trail connections as part of a trails master planning process for the entire Steamboat Springs area.

ORGANIZATION: - In 2010 RCR was incorporated as a non-profit and attained 501c3 status opening the door to significant grant and fundraising opportunities aimed at biking. The structure provides the fiscal accountability and credibility for the biking community to benefit from large donations and grant awards. - RCR appointed a Board of Directors with nine members from the community to provide leadership and guidance to the direction of the club. - RCR holds monthly meetings to provide updates on all facets of RCR Committee activities, events and discussion of community biking issues. The minutes of these meetings are emailed to over 1400 people keeping the community updated on our progress. - RCR has worked with the Steamboat Pilot / Today to communicate on cycling issues and news. In conjunction with RCR the newspaper is launching a weekly cycling column “Spoke Talk” which will be edited by RCR volunteers.

BICYCLE FRIENDLY COMMUNITY: - RCR is the advisory group to the City of Steamboat Springs for Bicycle Friendly Community status as recognized and awarded by the League of American Cyclists. In 2008 Steamboat was recognized as a Silver BFC, one of a handful recognized nationally. RCR has formed a Committee that is focused on achieving Gold or Platinum Status when the City renews in 2011. - RCR is soon to roll out its own Bicycle Friendly Business Program to work with businesses within the community that wish to partner with the local cycling community. Businesses will be recognized annually for cumulative support of biking through sponsorship, volunteerism, donations and bicycle friendly practices.

EVENTS: - RCR is the organizing body of the Livestrong Ride 4 Yellow event that will bring Lance Armstrong and a National spotlight to Steamboat biking in August. This event looks likely to raise over $200,000 for cancer treatment on a national and local level.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

cont...

  • RCR supports the Tour De Steamboat, Steamboat Springs Stage Race, Steamboat Springs MTB Series through volunteers and communications and whatever resources can be provided to further the success of these events.
  • RCR will partner again with Smartwool to host a Bike-In-Movie on August 15th at Howelson Hill
  • RCR organized and sponsored Bike To Work Week, a week-long series of events to promote biking to work as an alternative choice for our community. In partnership with Smartwool and the Steamboat Chamber RCR organized a month-long Commuter Challenge that involved over 20 teams of riders logging their bike commuting and saved an estimated 700 gallons of gas being burned in our valley in June.
  • The Spring Bike Festival offered an opportunity for Bike Swapping (over 70 bikes changed hands) as well as bike shop and local bike industry participation, skills demonstration, food and a prize draw. Several hundred attended.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVE - RCR is assisting with a task-force group comprising representatives from USFS / BLM / CITY / COUNTY / Bike Industry / Economic Development Council / IMBA to identify and action projects that would enhance the viability of Steamboat Springs as a biking destination and provide significant lifestyle benefit to residents.

So, you can see that we have a lot on our plate. We know that we cannot please all of the people all of the time but we are continuing to focus on areas where we can make the most positive impact. We would welcome your support and participation on any level to make Steamboat a better place to ride.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

1999, you are mistaken. Creekside was built in the summer of 1990 specifically for riding downhill on a bike. I know this to be true. Steamboat went through a phase around 2000 where they did not let DH bikes or people with pads on the gondola. It lasted only for a year or two because they realized how silly it was. I believe Creekside had a wrong way sign on it as recent as last year.

Many of the top resorts in the North America and Europe offer downhill biking. It brings thousands of people to the resorts each year. It is a good revenue source, and can be used to promote Steamboat in a positive way that is consistent with other top resorts. I feel we need to embrace the evolution of sport. It is not that different from skiing.

Robin, I am disappointed that you can not put your personal greed for a hiking trail at your door step aside in this issue. There were many DH or FR bikers that donated money to RCR that are sick to their stomach to see an organization that said they would support them, do just the opposite.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

Please go back to the top and read all my comments before you mis-represent my position one more time.

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Vince arroyo 4 years, 1 month ago

USFS land- OUR land-Steamboat Ski Area (Know the Code) Can we use the same rules?

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

"A public process has to be followed to change this trail to directional, and I am confident that the Board of RCR would support this IF a public process were followed".

I would love to hear you, and/ or RCR, stand up and say we feel this should be a directional mt. bike trail. All of your comments in past public meetings have strongly expressed the contrary.

I still would argue that it was built to be directional bike trail, and was considered such by the mountain, and its actions, for many years.

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lovetopedal 4 years, 1 month ago

Robin - Well spoken on our accomplishments.

As vice president of Routt County Riders, I invite all commenting on this forum to be a part of the process. Sitting back and criticizing is easy but to actually volunteer many hours of time and energy to the ever growing needs in our cycling community takes guts - more guts then flying down Creekside on a free ride bike. Attend a meeting! You might be surprised about who is there: representatives of Ski Corp, USFS, BLM, the free ride group, Access Anything, county commissioners and city council members. They are there to listen to the concerns and take action on those concerns otherwise, they would not spend one Monday night a month at the Library away from their families and their bikes (especially on nice evenings). In regards to Creekside - it is what it is - a multi use trail designated by the USFS. If you want that changed, come to a meeting and help us speed the process along. Complaining and threatening to hurt people is not going to help the process. George - I am surprised by your comments. RCR is not the same RCR it was when you were a member just 3 or 4 years ago. You should come to a meeting as I think you would be surprised by the number of caring folks that attend the meetings (and not just for the free beer) that want to make a difference. Under Robin's direction RCR has become a formitable force within the community - regardless of your belief and your friends that you say have turned their back on RCR. The club is full of people that care and recognize that RCR is the advocacy group in Routt County when it comes to cycling.

The next meeting is on August 2nd in Library Hall at 5:30 - FREE BEER!

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

Lisa-Who is threatening to hurt someone? That is the last thing anyone wants. We just want a safe spot to recreate. Your comments come across as anti FR / DH as well. I hope this issue is put to a vote at your meeting.

I encourage all riders that want and care about having fun and safe trails to FR / DH on to go to the meeting. I also encourage all to provide positive comments in regards to the new trails proposed by Gravity Logic. Look for a notice in the legal section of Sundays paper.

If RCR would take a stand, and support it being directional, that alone could make it happen rather quickly. It would recognize the design intent of the trail, the historic usage, and years of signage. Robin has been the main voice to not have it directional for years.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

insbsdeep...creekside initially was a multi use trail. period

the one way dh signs were put up after the fact and were never approved by the USFS>

why hold on to this one trail? it's really not that great of a dh trail.

once gravity logic starts bulding.... creekside will be left to hikers as it should.

the attitude of "this is my trail" is sad.

and trust me...I know all about the revenue and popularity of dh riding but that doesn't make this fight right.

it was NEVER APPRVED BY USFS AS A DH ONLY TRAIL!!!

there fore it is illegal as a DH only trail.

another fact remains.

it was a hiking trail LONG before a biker ever rode it.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

"why hold on to this one trail? it's really not that great of a dh trail." ...

It is a great DH trail. It is ridding better than ever. Today it was even better than yesterday, the few slippery spots had dried up. There was basically no brake jack that you speak off, it was super smooth, zig-zag is much worse in regard to brake jack. I in no way view it as "my trail." It is the closest thing this community has to a downhill specific trail. A trail which has been maintained and signed as such for years. It is a little slice of heaven that can be hit before or after work, on your lunch break, or to end an epic divide ride. I encourage anyone that enjoys going downhill on a mt. bike to ride this trail, it is in great shape right now. Don't forget to go to the RCR meeting on August 2nd, 5:30, at the library, for free beer, and to voice your support for this trail.

Before I started down it today, I couldn't help but stare at the blue Creekside sign in the above photo with down arrow in the black diamond and the bike. 99% of the activity on this trail over the last 20 years has been DH biking. Why does RCR not support or embrace this?

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

“There were gap jumps developed, and there had clearly been extensive rock and dirt work,” said Janet Faller, of the Forest Service. “That wasn’t authorized by the Forest Service. The downhill users kind of adopted it as their own and felt like they had free reign on that trail.”

Thing is, it was never a one-way trail. It wasn’t listed as such by the ski area and certainly wasn’t considered one by the Forest Service, which would need to oversee any such change in designation.

“We can’t say it’s downhill without going through the master plan process. We can’t change the use of our trails,” Schneider said.

reread the those first three paragraphs

insbsdeep...I think you need to ride some othere mts. if you think creekside is so great

and there is tons of brake jack. You just must be used to it. Gravity logic will bring great trails to the ski area and you'll see what I mean that creekside isn't all that great. sure it's fun. I rode it again to day too! the fact is...RCR CANNOT embrase an ilegal trail. it was not designated DH only by the USFS hence it is illegal to advertise it that way.

why on earth would RCR risk future projects with the USFS by promoting this multi use trail as a DH only???? the USFS could easily say no to every other trail project if they do not see compliance!!!! RCR would be fools to put future projects at risk

you are not losing the trail it is just being billed as it's intended use as it has always been

MULTI USE!!!!!

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Cooke 4 years, 1 month ago

For the love of all things grammatical 1999 -- proofread and spellcheck. You sound like you started school in 2009.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

The Trail work that caused the stir was mostly done by ski area workers. I don't think RCR would risk future projects by supporting this cause. They can not promote it until the USFS recognizes it, but should support it and voice an opinion. The trail is not illegal. I will say it agin: It was built to be a dh bike trail, it was signed to be a dh bike trail for many years, and 99% of usage on the trail is dh biking. Why is it not recognized as a dh bike trail?

1999... you obviously don't know the difference between brake Jack and roots. The trail is riding great. I do ride plenty of other mountains. I will be spending my money in Winter Park this weekend.

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1999 4 years, 1 month ago

the USFS never approved it to be DH only.

and yes I know the difference between brake jack and roots.

Thing is, it was never a one-way trail. It wasn’t listed as such by the ski area and certainly wasn’t considered one by the Forest Service, which would need to oversee any such change in designation.

“We can’t say it’s downhill without going through the master plan process. We can’t change the use of our trails,” Schneider said

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mtroach 4 years, 1 month ago

Robin, it's not "leadership" to handle the gavel at meetings, and OK the work that others bring to the RCR board. Let's thank those that are really doing the work; Thanks to Gretchen and Mark Selher for ALL the work on Emerald. Thanks to Gina(?)Hall for writing the grants that are paying for the Beal Trail, and Thanks to the Rotary and those that attended the Tango and Cash Ball for the other new Trail being built on the BLM's Emerald Mt property. Thanks to Aryah Copa and Corey for getting the Ski area at the table to finally discuss inprovements to the trails on Mt Werner. Thanks to Page Boucher and the "Safe Routes to School" group for getting the grant from the Feds. Thanks to Ben Clark and SSWSC for operating a succesful youth bike racing program, and to Tom Davis for having the vision to start such a program for steamboats talented youth Thanks to the local businesses sponsers that belive in RCR and supported the jersey program and to Stewart Handoff (?)for doing the work. Thanks to Gavin Manila for the cool new map. Thanks to David Nagel for having the vision to create the Livestrong ride, and bring a new cycing event to Steamboat. Thanks to CoreyP@ Moots for the Steamboat Stage Race Thanks to BradC and Katie for the Tour de Eriksen, Get Well brother, Death to Lil Buddy! Thanks to Lisa Shafer for all her hard work on BTWW Thanks to Katie Lunquist for her work on the Spring Bike Fest I do question showing an "R" rated movie at the Bike-in movie, not too kid friendly, but Thanks to Smartwool for funding

It's the new blood that's really the driving force behind all the great work being done at RCR, and maybe time for the old guard to step aside and see what else the new members of RCR can get done.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

MT, there are way more people to thank than you have listed here. Please anyone not on this list realize that your contributions are appreciated by all of us who ride in Steamboat. I am not going to add names here because the list will take me a long time to write, and I am not sure that they all want to be recognized in this forum. They know who they are and for the most part have helped, not for recognition or praise, but because they just want to give back a little. For that I thank you all.

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grundy 4 years, 1 month ago

RCR, please understand this is intended as constructive criticism. I do not think you have made your position on this issue clear. It's clear you feel this was never officially a DH trail and that you believe the bureaucratic process must be respected. No where, however, can I find a statement from RCR saying that you are using your influence as a bikers' advocacy group to push for this trail's designation as DH. (This forum is out of control so, if I'm wrong, please corret me.) IMO, this represents negligence on behalf of the organization. Because you define yourself as a bikers' advocacy organization and accept money from your members under that pretense, you are obligated to represent the interest of bikers, not hikers. As a member, I would expect an unequivocal statement that you are actively working with the USFS to change the trail's designation in the interest of safety. Both sides seem to agree on one thing, biking & hiking do not mix well on this trail.

Side notes: (1) In all practicality, a sign at the TH trumps a USFS document sitting in some unknown location. As far as the public is concerned, this was a one-way trail when the one-way signs were up. (2) Crksd may not be a good DH trail by Winter Park, Sol Vista, or Keystone standards, but it's the closest thing Stmbt currently has to offer. You can expect passionate opposition from bikers about "losing" this trail until that changes. Non-bikers would better understand some of the comments in this forum if they took this into account. We love this trail, we want to keep riding it, & we don't want to hurt anyone.

Lastly, until there's a final resolution maybe we can agree on the following safety measures: (1) hikers, if you must hike crksd, keep your ears open, don't wear headphones, leash your dogs, and listen for bells (2) bikers, be prepared to break, ring your bells furiously!!

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 1 month ago

This will be discussed at our next meeting on Monday August 2nd. I think that you can expect some direction on an official RCR position as this is an agenda item that will come up around 6:30pm.

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insbsdeep 4 years, 1 month ago

I appreciate all that RCR has done, and am looking forward to the new trails. I got fired up because the leader of our bike advocacy group, lead the charge to have this trail not be a dh mountain bike trail. The people that built the trail, in the summer of 1990, were instructed to build a dh bike trail. It was maintained, and for many, many years signed as such. It is a great trail worth fighting for. Officially designating it as dh only will show that Steamboat, RCR, and the USFS do support this ever growing segment of biking. It is the right choice in regards to safety on the trail, and will show support for bike recreation as a strong future economic driver in our community.

From my understanding it is up to Steamboat to ask for this trail designation. A public comment period, then USFS makes the call. If Steamboat asks for it, and RCR supports it, it will happen. The mountain will be a better safer spot to ride. Hikers have a designated trail, and can hike virtually any place they like. This is one little trail that is best suited for dh biking.

Free beer or not, come support this choice at RCR's meeting 5:30 monday at the library.

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