Rebecca Wendt: Bikers should police their own

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— Well, the push is on for us to officially be named “Bike Town USA.” Not a bad idea at all, except for the words we keep hearing attached to the word “bicyclist.” Rude, disrespectful, dangerous, arrogant road and trail hogs.

Is this how we really want to be known?

From longtime locals to tourists to our own friends and family, we hear so much negativity about cyclists. To be honest, we cannot say it is unjustified. We have all witnessed the people who ride five and six abreast, flipping off the line of cars they are holding up. Those who refuse to put their foot down to stop at a stop sign or just blow through a stoplight. What about those too lazy to give a hand signal to turn? We all know that just like the rules of the road for boats (it takes a big boat longer to slow down and turn, therefore big boats have right of way), the same is true of cars and bikes. If we want to be the official “Bike Town USA,” should we not do it with style and class?

Are the organizers of the push willing to take responsibility for what the title “Bike Town USA” will bring to this community? Thousands more bicyclists, many of whom have very little experience. Are they willing to start policing their own? Are they willing to accept financial responsibility for the new trails and bike lanes that will be required?

Would they support, say, mandatory bike registration (plates) for a nominal fee, which would allow people to identify those who are breaking the rules? The fees could help offset the cost of the new trails, education, etc., that will be needed. Or is the community (the majority of which do not bicycle) going to be the ones to pay the price?

Comments

hivltge 4 years, 5 months ago

I couldn't have said it better Rebecca! I will say both sides have jerks that don't follow the rules and responsible ones that do. But I too get frustrated with the bike riders that don't follow the traffic rules knowing that I will be the one in trouble if I hit them. I think plates would be good I have seen many I would like to call in and I know they can call in my plate. Like you said cars and trucks are bigger and will come out better then the bikes on these narrow roads with no shoulder. Hopefully we all try to do our part and make it work.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 5 months ago

There is no doubt that cyclists need to follow the rules of the road. Part of the whole process of envisioning ourselves as a biking community is recognizing the need to educate all road users and to remind each other to share our roadways in a better way.

The rationale behind the Bike Town USA initiative is that the community could benefit if this were a safer place to ride our bikes and businesses could benefit it we could tap into to the potential tourism opportunities.

We intend to do this with style and class and it appears that we have widespread support for this idea because (dare we say it) cyclists are not in the minority in this part of the world.

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jk 4 years, 5 months ago

Robin, maybe you should muzzle George he doesn't seem to help advance your cause on any of these forums. I am guessing he isn't a member of RCR?

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freerider 4 years, 5 months ago

Here is the perfect solution , every bike should have some C-4 built into the frame of the bike ....then the bike will have an ID with a code on it visible to the motorist ...with a simple cell phone call... when the road hog , arrogant , self righteous I own the road peddle head gets out of line the cell phone call will blow the bike and rider out of the way .....problem solved.....

personally I only trail ride , problem solved.... except with the trail hog , arrogant I own the trail peddle heads....I now ride with a semi-automatic hand gun when in MOAB

Rebbeca is right we should police our own

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doubleottseven 4 years, 5 months ago

I am sorry Rebecca but I don't think that other bicyclists are going to "police" each other. It just doesn't work that way. There are too many different personalities, pre-concieved notions and histories to have everyone come to the table.

I myself am highly embarrassed and pissed all at the same time about the way some cyclists act the way they do. They don't realize that their actions are setting up the drivers reaction that affects me, even though when I bike I am obeying all of the rules of the road. This then sets me up to have a bad attitude toward the driver. Its a vicious cycle.

I have been cut off, flipped off and placed in danger by an aggressive driver in their 2400+ pound maiming machine. I don't take it personally but if given the opportunity I do speak my mind to that driver. On the other hand I have driven behind bicyclists that are riding two abreast carrying on a conversation that don't seem to feel that the rules of the road apply to them. Wait until Steamboat Springs becomes "Bike Town USA" with the tourists cutting across lanes, riding across business driveways on the sidewalk and riding down the wrong way become part of the already volatile situation.

So what is the solution? I think bike groups should insist their riders obey the rules of the road and if they don't then they get kicked out of the riding group. I think bicyclists should take down license numbers of aggressive drivers and report them. Little by little these actions will do two things...ostricize a rude bicyclist and place agressive drivers on the record.

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

I ride road all the time and have few problems with motorists. Staying reasonably to the right, paying attention to cars around you and being courteous goes a long way. Rebecca's point striving to do better should resonate with all of us road users and I get mad when I hear about other riders out on the roads in a completely unsafe way. It puts you in danger and hurts those of us trying to build respect with residents who drive these roads.

The problem with rudeness as I see is not a bike issue or car issue. If you honk at a car or bike, you likely get flipped off no matter how wrong the other person is. I have seen the most ridiculous road rage just outside of downtown on US40, it is "rude, disrespectful, dangerous, and arrogant" but a large number of drivers in this town think they are exempt from speed limits. Entitlement is a problem for all road users, get over yourselves, slow down and show courtesy to others even if you think they are in the wrong - I know it might be a challenge for some!

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

"Trackstand" So, That's what they call that silly little circus act of trying to balance their bikes at the stop light without putting your feet down. I saw some guy fall over at 5th Street last summer trying to showoff while performing his little "trackstand" for the motorists. He got his foot stuck in his clipless pedal and lost his balance. Now I'll know what to call it when I poke fun at them. Thanks George. All I can say is at least people doing their trackstand are obyeing the law and stopping at the lights.

While in college in the 80's I biked 30 miles every day to work and back at my summer job and I'll be the first one to admit drivers didn't take the slightest notice of bicyclists. Now I'm a mountain biker and I stay away from the roads as much as possible. Simply put, highways were engineered for fast and efficient vehicular travel and not for bikes. Much safer that way. However, my honest opinion is that cyclists have to watch out for themselves and not do stupid things on the road. It doesn't matter who has the right of way if you are dead.

Biking on our sidewalks and across the crosswalks at full speed is about the most dangerous thing you can do as a cyclist in Steamboat. Even a driver who has double-checked both sidewalks before moving does not have enough time to react when you come from behind a building at full speed especially when they turn their attention to traffic in the street after looking for pedestrians.

I'm really suprised that there isn't more enforcement of the laws regarding biking on the sidewalks. The name says it all. It's called a sidewalk not a "sideride"

Stop signs are the next violation I see regularly. This past Monday morning as I went through Brooklyn I passed a cyclist at the ice rink. As I came to the stop sign I pulled to a complete stop. As I started through the intersection the cyclist blew through the sign and passed me on the right side of my car narrowly missing my mirror. I wasn't expecting him to run the stop sign and pass me on the right so I inadvertantly was not giving him the space he needed on the right side of the road. He flipped me off. I passed him again in front of the Qwest lot and he proceeded to do the same thing at the second stop sign in Brooklyn. I'm not a tempermental person so I waved at him (with all my fingers), blew it off as ignorance on his part and went along on my way.

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

Turn lanes are the other spot where cyclists go wrong. Three weeks ago we were heading to the Flattops on a Saturday afternoon and a cyclist heading east on 40 at HWY 131 was riding to the far right side of the white line (to the right of the turn lane for 131) This is all fine and dandy as long as he was planning on turning on 131 like the cars in the turn lane. As he got to the actual turn for 131 he kept going straight so he could continue going East on US 40. All of this without so much as a glance over his shoulder, a hand signal to show his intentnions or any other gesture he cut right in front of cars that were turning. In my opinion because he was continuing on 40, he should have stayed on the white line that separates 40 from the turn lane. That would clue drivers in to his intentions.

We've all seen it from both sides. I could go on and on. I've personally been on both sides of the argument as a cyclist and driver and all I can say is everyone needs to have a little patience with the person on the other side of the windshield, regardless of which side that may be. Neither cyclists or drivers are ever going to obey all the rules of the road and all the moaning about it that goes on here in the Pilot forums isn't going to change that.

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dave pieknik 4 years, 5 months ago

Bike Town USA.... Hmmm. Isn't that like giving yourself your own nick name? Don't titles/nicknames like that need to be earned?

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

"As I started through the intersection the cyclist blew through the sign and passed me on the right side of my car narrowly missing my mirror. I wasn't expecting him to run the stop sign and pass me on the right so I inadvertantly was not giving him the space he needed on the right side of the road."

I will never for the life of me understand why cyclists pass cars from behind. It has never crossed my mind while out riding to overtake a car in their blind spot only to have them pass me again. Rolling stop signs with no cars in sight I can kind of understand and most motorists do this anyways.

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

Once a car overtakes a cyclist I've always been under the impression that the law requires the cyclist to stay behind the bumper of the vehicle and not to overtake or even come along side the vehicle on the right.

If a vehicle for whatever reason is progressing slower than the bike and the cyclist needs to pass they should do it on the left just as any other vehicle would be required to do.

I agree rolling through a stop sign on a bike is not a mortal sin as some would have you believe. Especially if there is visibility and there are clearly no vehicles in the vicinity. Not really something you should do in the middle of downtown Steamboat though.

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

I like Daves thought. Isn't there a town somewhere in the US that has sent more cyclists to the Olympics than any other. Shouldn't they be Bike Town USA. :o)

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

winter park has taken on Bike Capital USA.

I agree with dave...we have a lot of work to do before we should promote ourselves as BTUSA. the list is endless.

we need to earn it not just declare it.

clearly...as of now...we are not worthy.

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

Now that I know the term trackstand I can actually look it up. The first paragraph of the first article I came across verified what we already know. Cyclists do it to satisfy their own narcissism.

He says in the first paragraph a trackstand "will impress the heck out of your friends!"

http://www.teamestrogen.com/content/asa_trackstand

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

As I read a bit further the second paragraph of the article above contains another narcissistic comment about doing a trackstand. He says;

"it is very handy at stoplights! The kids in the cars next to you dig it"

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 5 months ago

As I have stated before....

Bike Town USA is an initiative, a vision, a concept of where we hope to improve our community. This is not a false claim, an un-earned medal or tag-line or misrepresentation of any kind. We are setting ourselves the goal of becoming Bike Town USA because we think that it will make Steamboat and Routt County a better place to live. This would involve a greater understanding of how to better share the road and follow the rules of the road on the part of all road users.

What gives us the nerve to think that this is possible here...

  • Steamboat has produced National Cycling Champions and State Cycling Champions (many of them!). Who knows, with the right encouragement the Olympics could be on the horizon.

  • Steamboat is home to two custom bike building businesses: Moots and Eriksen

  • Steamboat resident Kent Eriksen, who built some of the very first mountain bikes back in the early 80's is a member of the Mountain Bike Hall of Fame.

  • We have four bike shops here.

  • We have over 100 miles of World-class cross country mountain bike trails on our door-step.

  • This summer Steamboat will play host to three major cycling events: The Tour De Steamboat, Ride 4 Yellow (with 7 time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong in attendance), and the four day Steamboat Springs Stage Race along with a Town Challenge Mountain bike Series that is one of the largest in Colorado (over 200 competitors per event) and a Road Racing Series on alternate weeks organized by the SSWSC.

  • Steamboat has it's own cycling team: Steamboat Velo competing in events around Colorado.

  • Steamboat has played host to a variety of bike tours over the years: Ride the Rockies, Bicycle Colorado, Tour of Wyoming, Race Across America.

  • IMBA (International Mountain Biking Association) shares our vision of Steamboat as a natural venue for a major cycling destination.

  • Steamboat is recognized by the League of American Cyclists as a Silver Level Bicycle Friendly Community - one of a handful in the US.

  • Gravity Logic, who designed and built many of the free-ride / downhill trails that have made Whistler the Mountain Bike Capital of the World are under contract and in town building trails on the Steamboat ski area under a revised trails master plan that provides sufficient space for a large scale and sophisticated trails network to be created.

  • The Ski Area has formally declared that they are getting into the Freeride mountain bike business.

cont...

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 5 months ago

...cont...

  • We have many empty lodging capacity, struggling retail and restaurants that need more business in the summer. A biking destination will attract a steady flow of cycling customers throughout the summer months.

  • People are already bring their bikes in the hundreds to ride here despite the lack of signage, connectivity and other amenities - they want to ride up here!

  • As a community many groups are working on providing safer routes for kids to ride to school. As Bike Town USA we can make this a practical reality for so many more families if you will support RCR in our efforts to advocate for these changes.

I am just touching the tip of the iceberg as to how the issue has grown and how much the community as a whole seems to want it. We have many of the elements of what it would take to be Bike Town USA and hope that the community can recognize how this could improve where we live.

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bandmama 4 years, 5 months ago

Riddle me this......Was it not so long ago that Oak street had the lanes narrowed for autos in order to better serve bikes? Ummmmm, why are there so many on Lincoln (come on, even in a car Lincoln is scary sometimes with the amount of traffic, people looking for parking/stores/restaurant?) when a safer route has already been provided? Tags on bikes, sure, why not? And if anyone reads the daily record, there are PLENTY of reports of reckless drivers (that SSPD were unable to locate...) but when caught are usually at least warned of reckless habits. And once again I would like to say thank you to the riders who do realize that I may have a blind spot, or those that really STOP when they should, or pull to the side when needed. And lastly for you George, how many times do you see "5-6 riding abreast" ? This morning, three, in front of the ice rink that would not pull to the side. I managed a quickie speed racer move that put everyone on the road in danger and passed those puppies with exhaust from my valley car blocking their view, and I bounced a ciggerette butt into the baby carraige to boot... but by golly I got by! Ok, just a bit of dripping sarcasm there but they really wouldn't move over. I find that a bit rude.

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

robin...you need a dose of reality.

biking is great! I bike every day. I choose it over my car 5 or 6 days a week.

but what you need to start with is education!!!!!!

the riders around here are generally ignorant arrogant jerks.

we should probably persue Ignorant Arrogant Riders Town USA.

I think the "support" you claim is way over blown.

I do hear there is a summit which hopefully will educate people before we get in over our heads

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

oh and robin...i just counted competetors in a few of the local series and the three races I counted had about 140 racers....not OVER 200.

I imagine many of your other claims are overblown as well.

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

"Tags on bikes, sure, why not? And if anyone reads the daily record, there are PLENTY of reports of reckless drivers (that SSPD were unable to locate...) but when caught are usually at least warned of reckless habits." ^

If there are cyclists out on county roads or in town being idiots and creating a hazard then I don't doubt for a second that law enforcement can catch up with them given that they are only moving ~20mph and probably on a long loop. The challenge is using your judgement to determine what is really worth the time of our law enforcement. Law enforcement can and absolutely will issue citations for running stop signs, impeding traffic could certainly be given a warning.

You say there were three riders abreast in front of the ice rink, the speed limit there is 20mph and they are probably going at least 15mph, why not just wait a bit instead of speeding up to 35 to get by and then slamming on the brakes at the next stop sign. Give them a few minutes to figure it out and you might be surprised when they go single file.

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

1999 - You don't have a clue. The cyclists around here may appear through your windshield to all be the same arrogant jerks, but the reality is they are quality and giving people from your community. You would be amazed at how many business owners are avid road and mountain riders. Go to Ace Hardware alot? How about Backcountry provisions? Black tie ski rentals? Steve Green Co? Steamboat Pilot? Freshies? Ben's Blinds? Prudential? Moving Mountains? Cafe Diva? Yampa Valley Medical Center? They all have owners, managers or staff that ride. How about all of the lawyers, doctors, dentists, and so on. Oh and the guy that issues licenses for the DMV on Anglers, I am pretty sure he has been out road riding a lot. This is one of the key factors that make Steamboat such a great place to be on a bike and start up a bike event, it's the people who love biking.

How many employees do you think Moots, Eriksen, the four bike shops, SmartWool, Honey Stinger, BAP, and BOA have that ride bikes? That is a lot more cycling industry than any other town I know of. And the point is not that this makes "cyclists" better or more entitled than anyone in town, but this is why Steamboat is a bike town of sorts.

RCR forgot to also mention the Steamboat triathlon, 400+ racers.

Where the focus needs to be is getting all these people who love bikes to do it in a responsible way that respects all of the other people in town who might not be as bike crazy.... It can work, all of Steamboat diverse and active interests can coexist. I had no problem driving 10mph down Elk River Road in a line of traffic this afternoon behind a hay tractor heading into town. That's life in Steamboat and if you are in a rush then you should move to Denver!

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

actually I do have a clue as I am an avid biker, racer, commuter etc etc etc.

oh and zed,

I've lived and biked here for 27 years, 7 of those years with out a car. so please save your semon for someone else. I can gaurantee I have put far more time volunteering working on trails that you could even dream of doing. and FAR more time rallying for biker rights than you could even dream of doing

I have an issue with putting the cart before the horse.

if we want to be bike town usa we should first BE bike town USA.

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

My argument is for supporting RCR and the goal of giving our cycling community a vision. Everything mentioned in my sermon as well as RCRs sermon is strong evidence that the horse is pulling strong and biketown usa is a way to harness that energy and support that is already here. It seems there are many parties coming together in the past two years to work on a variety of topics including education. Multi modal advisory committee comes to mind as one group that has focused on education and reasonable dialogue.

Generalizing riders as "ignorant arrogant jerks" is the same crap people have been spewing on here for every controversial bike related article I can recall. It does not seem like a strong argument to stop the planning for a broad biking vision. This is not about the stupid label, it is about bringing people from all these different areas together with one vision. Part of that vision is education.

You obviously take everything personally which is probably why everyone on a bike is an ignorant arrogant jerk to you?

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

I guess you missed the part about me being a biker?

and yes, from what I see the biking community needs to spread the word and educate.

gee, I was riding today and had to slam on my brakes to avoid another RIDER!!!!

yes a rider running a stop sign as I had the ROW. shocking right? and I was on a bike too. guess what. the rider had headfones on and then flipped me off. and did I mention I was also on a bike.

do you NOT see a problem here?

we need to become BTUSA before we try to be BTUSA

how fun would it be to invite thousands of more riders to a town that clearly can not handle our local rider population.

great! have a vision but perhaps put your efforts into improving what we have before inviting thousands to add to the mess.

and yeah... it does seem like it's about a stupid label.

perhaps you and I should go spend a weekend in another bike friendly town and compare and contrast.

i think you might be suprised at how off the mark we are for bike friendly/commuter friendly/all around friendly town.

from my observation...we have a long way to go and by focusing on this title we miss the forest for the trees.

we strive for some goal without achieving that goal.

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upstream 4 years, 5 months ago

honestly 1999- we are "generally arrogant ignorant jerks"? If you find bicyclists so unpleasant why would you spend "more time volunteering working on trails than (we) could ever dream of?" (and I can dream of a lot of hours of trailwork) Are you also an arrogant ignorant jerk? Or are you the only cyclist in all of Routt County who has it all going on? Hope you never use a trackstand at a stop light (or as a means to approach a technical move on the singletrack or to avoid a wreck) or Weststmbtres may have to say differently...because that would make you a narcissist.

Why haven't I ever been flipped off by a bicyclist in my 30+ years as a driver? Why is it no more skin off my nose to wait to safely pass a cyclist in the canyon or on River road than it is to wait for a tractor or hay trailer? Hmmm- could it be attitude?

I have lived in many communities with far more bicycles AND far more cars than Routt County and I have never encountered anything like the vitreol any mention of bicycles, bicycling or cyclists brings out in Steamboat Springs. I would have a hard time feeling proud to be known as Bike Town USA after reading this forum. Really disheartening and hateful stuff. UGH.

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

gee have you ridden on emerald lately?

try going uphill when someone is coming down.

fun stuff.

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

I may not have lived in Steamboat (or been alive for) 27 years, but I still feel strongly that Steamboat has some good people here who care deeply about bikes and want to do it right. Maybe the biketown usa is a bit showy and comes across as simply wanting to put heads on beds and toot our horn, but behind that it has the potential to be a tool to make sure we grow our cycling community in an effective way with everyone at the table. Look at all of the new bike related events popping up and locals getting on bikes, if these groups are not on the same page we might end up like Black Hawk with the locals pleading for bike bans and tickets for rolling a stop sign. Places like Boulder get far more recognition for being bike friendly, but I would much rather ride here because the people on and off bikes are not in fact arrogant jerks, they make an effort to get along(not including this forum).

I would be curious if a lot of those people you saw out on your ride were not even locals? What if they already are coming and we don't do anything? What if outside promotion companies want to come in like Triple Crown and do a triple crown of mountain biking or a Gran Fondo Steamboat before we have a group overseeing biking in Steamboat? Who would they approach for permission or input to make sure they do it right and don't offend local groups?

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

I agree with you. I am not aginst the BTUSA. I just think we need to get our ducks in a row. and again, yes...it seems like a showy title. more about not seeing the forest for the trees.

when I see what I see regarding bikers here in town (road and mt) I am dumb founded.

yes, SBS has people who care deeply about biking and walk their talk. our council woman Diane Bush is one. RCR and their board is another. and I appreciate their concern and dedication.

Please have you NEVER encountered ignorant arrogant jerk riders? really? on or off your bike. in a car? people make up these stories?

i have friends that embarrass me and piss me off because of their biking actions.

anywho...I would expect a group coming to steamboat to bike to contact RCR or some local bike shops.

i hope they come...but as it stands...we are not anywhere close to being BTUSA.

for petes sake...we can't even get land owners to let the bike path thru their land.

putting the cart before the horse is asking for trouble.

this title needs to be achieved before we own it.

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

whoops..thats commisioner Bush.

oh and why are there usually mearly a handfull of trail builders at Gretchens trails days? those days should have DOZENS of people

thats what I'm talking about. we need to actually WORK together before we embark on this campaign.

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Zed 4 years, 5 months ago

What if we get Lance's blessing while he is in town, would that satisfy you and the other naysayers? He could do some public service announcements about yielding when riding downhill and staying single file for motorists.

I heard the BTUSA board is going to give him a new pair of sunglasses to replace the ones he lost when he was last here...

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upstream 4 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for asking. I have ridden Emerald lately- 3X last week and wishing I could get out more often. It is freaking beautiful up there right now! I am thrilled to share a morning with so many of my neighbors sweating and smiling, getting after it and hogging up some free endorphins. It is busy on Emerald alright- Lot's of stopping to yield the trail- lot's of having others yield the trail to me and lot's of reminders to "have good ride!". That's how my rides tend to go anyway. Yes, I have encountered dorks on bikes- just like I encounter dorks in the meadow parking lot or aisles of City Market- what to do? Let it go and be glad I don't live in their reality all day every day. Come on- most of our neighbors rock whether they pedal a bike, ride bulls or race 4wheelers- no point getting all hung up on the dorks, eh?

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jk 4 years, 5 months ago

" What if outside promotion companies want to come in like Triple Crown and do a triple crown of mountain biking or a Gran Fondo Steamboat before we have a group overseeing biking in Steamboat? Who would they approach for permission or input to make sure they do it right and don't offend local groups?"

Hopefully not City Council!

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

u r right upstream.

i get pissed at the bad examples and lose sight of the good ones.

thanks for the reminder

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

lances blessing doesn't mean too much as he will porbably helicopter in and out and be here for all of 24 hours like last time. after he was schooled on the divide trail.

he was super fun to watch at the emerald crit

lance doesn't live here.

we do.

i really don't give a rats arse what lance has to say about steamboat though sadly I imagine his opinion will hold some weight.

i would like to talk to him about my friend being his next baby mama....imagine the quiver of bikes!!!!! (we're the same size )

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 5 months ago

1999, the funny thing about reading your comments about how we have to become BTUSA before we can be BTUSA is that we are in agreement.

In order to "become" anything it helps if you can identify and share with others what it is that you are trying to become. From here you can identify what we are missing and figure out ways to fix what is missing. This is as far as we have gotten with the BTUSA Initiative and we have not tried to say otherwise.

There are many great biking plans within our community. The problem up to now is that few of them have been actioned. Our hope is that the vision of BTUSA and it's potential benefits to the vitality of this community will provide a catalyst for action.

It's obvious that road users (cyclist AND motorist) education is going to be a significant component. If any cyclists out there are reading these comments (whether you respect them or not) you cannot ignore the fact that reckless actions by cyclists have a knock-on effect to the rest of us.

My claims are not overblown. I get your strategy - prove that one detail I offered is incorrect and by association you can challenge my whole argument that we already have much of what makes a great cycling destination. This does not change the fact that we have a lot of potential to do this - it just depends what you want to believe in.

I still believe we can do this - if you are such a passionate cyclist then we could use your support. Instead of just blasting everyone as ignorant arrogant jerks, work with us on helping others understand that by being better riders we can make a difference.

It occurs to me that many cyclists in Steamboat may have adopted their attitudes and actions based on their own bad experiences with motorists and the fact that so little has been done to support cycling and create cycling friendly infrastructure up to now. We can all make a difference by showing just a little more respect for each other than we have been used to up to now.

Pay-it-forwards with respect and you might be surprised to get a smile and a friendly wave. When someone else respects you don't be shy about appreciating that.

We have to start somewhere...

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flower 4 years, 5 months ago

George, you really have gone to the dark side. I hope you are the first one to be 'self-policed'; hog tied along the side of the road for waiving such threats.

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

robin,

I appreciate your vision but my opinion is that it is absurd to invite thousands and thousands more bikers to a town that CLEARLY does not have a handle on the riders we already have.

It makes it look like the title BTUSA is more important than actually being a good bike town.

you are putting the cart before the horse.

do you have funding or jurisdiction in place to continue the bike path?

do you have any idea what goes into funding, creating etc bike lanes on our existing roads? trust me...it is not simply striping. it can take years and millions of $$$

where will riders be directed to ride downtown? where will the bike lanes be for thousands and thousands of more riders?

what about the county roads?

what about emerald?

did you know winter Park has deemed itself Bike Capital USA? thats just down the road from us. I think Moab has a similar title as well as fruita and I imagine a few dozen towns across the USA.

honestly I appreciate your vision but I think becoming BTUSA can have some really negative impacts that we are NOT preparred for.

I Look forward to the bike summit perhaps there will be some answers

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

If you are driving a car you are causing global warming and using up the precious molecular Oxygen that protects us from UV damage. Driving a car is leading us to our extinction. How can anyone justify driving a car? A human does use O2 but a minuscule amount compared to a car. If everyone rode a bike instead of driving a car we would have a better chance of surviving on this planet. Thank every bicyclist and pedestrian you see, they are doing the right thing for our children.

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

It is 100'F to our west and a 100'F to our east. Wake up! See what is happening! Philadelphia has had above 90'F the whole month of June and into July. Climate change is supposed to happen over centuries not a few years! Car drivers are really insane people acting as if they are the normal.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 5 months ago

Clearsky- Then maybe there could be some jobs created. I mean, how many bicyclists does it take to haul a tractor trailer full of food up over Rabbit Ears?

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

mmj, So everyone who is driving is gathering food? It's true that we need to use energy to produce and deliver items that we need. In fact our current agricultural methods require 10 calories of energy to produce 1 cal of food, so you can see where we are going. How can anyone justify driving a car since it is leading us to our extinction? Simple chemistry -Photosynthesis made the carbon based fuel and the molecular Oxygen and combustion simply reverses that same process. Simple Chemistry. There is no turning back the changes we are making except to wait a few million years.

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trump_suit 4 years, 5 months ago

Without doing the math, I think a team of cyclist's pulling a loaded semi trailer might use more of clearsky's molecular oxygen than the diesel engine does to accomplish the same job.

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mtroach 4 years, 5 months ago

Pilot, can you remove VYB from the forum, his non-share the road is dangerous, selfish, entitled hate talk that is encouraging road users to be disrespectful to other road users. Moving over in your lane to allow other safe passage on the roads should be taught to all drivers, and bikers, encouraging other to toe the yellow line will only create a dangerous problem on the roads.

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

mtroach...i think it's very good to have him on this forum. sadly..he represents a good portion of people and their views should be out in the open so we know he and his type are out there.

Ithink it's more dangerous to stick our heads in the sand and belive everyone in routt co is a happy happy joy joy easy going share the roads type. they are not

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

Trump, The difference is a human uses renewable energy versus the nonrenewable of "fossil" fuels. All the arguments for the continued destruction of our future will lead to our destruction. Get it?

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jk 4 years, 5 months ago

George, Just as no bike thread is complete without a cyclist whining about how they already pay taxes, and are thus unwilling to license their bikes. Even though every other recreational user has to license their toys. I don't need a special lane or expanded road shoulder for my boat or snowmobiles yet I pay a licensing fee for them.

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

JK, Are you suggesting that we tax pedestrians? Baby strollers? People breathing fresh air? Come on the only reason we partially justify the allowance of destructive behavior is by collecting taxes otherwise common sense would never allow it. Ask yourself why you are defending destructive behavior?

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jk 4 years, 5 months ago

Where do you get the power from to run your little pc there clearsky? Is it a laptop with a poisonous battery?? Do you grow all of your own food? Do you have running water?? Do you own a vehicle yourself?? Do you live in a stick built house??? I could keep going I am sure, but if any of your answers to any of these questions is yes, well then you are doing your part to old mother earth too! So jump down off your soapbox sport.

And it seems to me to be pretty destructive behavior to ride your bike on a curvy shoulderless road at speeds nearly half of what is posted!

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 5 months ago

Clear- No one is arguing that we NEED to continue destroying the planet. What absolute non-sense to actually believe that their are super-villianous types on here that are seeking the destruction of the world! I think all that anyone is trying to get at here is, simply, that it's a hell of a lot easier said than done. Sure, it's pretty obvious to see that our addiction to oil isn't all that healthy for many of us. Sure, it's easy to say that we need to get all of these polluting cars and trucks off the road. But how easy is it to come up with rapid solutions, real-life practical solutions, that will allow us to accomplish these things? Even if an alternative fuel source(non-fossil based, non-polluting, and highly renewable) was discovered and/or decided upon tomorrow, it would take years for the implimentation of that fuel to have far reaching positive effects. This isn't something that occured over night and it's not something that can be fixed overnight either.

Do you have any solutions for the problems that you so readily see?

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weststmbtres 4 years, 5 months ago

I haven't been on here for a couple of days. This is getting good. Now we are covering all the major environmental issues. All this from a letter about the new moniker BTUSA.

It's a bit off the current line of discussion but I'd just like to personally thank George for enlightening us about the term "trackstand". It's that curious little circus act/balancing maneuver we see the cyclists doing at the stoplights in town.

Now that I know the term and can look it up online, I'm having a much easier time poking fun at these guys. Check out what I just found. Cyclists have competitions to see who can perform this little maneuver the longest.

I've cycled for 30+ years and for the life of me I just can't seem to figure out why cyclists have an aversion to putting their feet on the ground at a stoplight. The only thing I can come up with is narcissism. It's just a way for them to say in a nonverbal way "Look at me!!!!" "I'm so cool!!!" "I just love myself!!!"

It seems as if it originated in velodrome racing. C'mon people. Get with the program. We don't have a velodrome in Steamboat. Yet!!! So, you can all relax a bit and put your feet down once in a while. It's really OK. :o)

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bandmama 4 years, 5 months ago

George has consistantly shown an intelligent open minded view on this topic, as well as educating us on the terminology of those clearskyed individuals.

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John Fielding 4 years, 5 months ago

.

I believe that improvements to the roads such as the recent addition of shoulders to 131 are strictly for the benefit of motorists, allowing us to travel with much greater safety (as well as not be delayed by bicyclists).

Bikers and others using them as a safer place to travel is a fringe benefit well worth having, but probably would not have been a high enough priority to have driven the State funding decisions

I also have a notion that there is a practical reason for a trackstand. Many serious bikers have their feet clipped onto the pedals and it can be inconvenient to disengage then reattach them. .

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dave reynolds 4 years, 5 months ago

did I miss something in the last century. did .Buzz wear a bike helmet to the moon..do fighter pilots wear them too? if I'm wrong please correct me..LMFAO

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1999 4 years, 5 months ago

john,

it is NOT inconvenient to disengage your cleats from pedals.

it is actually common sense.

some guy fell into and dented my husbands work truck last week trying to do a track stand at a stop light.

why he was next to the truck and not eiterh directly in back or front in the lane of traffic is another question

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

Whatever we say will make no difference because all of us are destroying our future by reversing photosynthesis by burning carbon based fuels. I really stopped caring because of all the people like you that will defend our destruction to the end and then say "If you knew this would happen, why didn't you do a better job telling us!" Forget it and live the way you want. It won't matter because it is already too late. It is above 90'F to our East and to our West. It is simple chemistry we all should have been required to study it in high school at least. Simple chemistry. Each summer it will get hotter and hotter and still people will say Jeeze down here in Texas,it is 135' F suck it up northerners. Then the next year Jeeze down here it is 145' F etc...

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

10 calories of fossil fuel energy to produce 1 calorie of food with our "modern" agricultural methods. Do you see where we are headed? How much molecular Oxygen does a tree produce? As much as it consumes when it decomposes and/or burns.(you can count the leaves too) Get the picture? The only reason we have an Oxygen rich atmosphere is because of 3.5 BILLION years of Photosynthesis that also produced the Carbon based fuels we are burning. CO2 absorbs in the infrared region of the Energy spectrum. O2 absorbs in the Ultraviolet region and becomes O3 (ozone) which also absorbs in the UV portion. Check it out yourself. The whole world is burning so pointing your finger at one person who is doing what he can is pointless. It won't solve the problem.

Thank every biker and pedestrian!!!! They are making the BEST choice!!!

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

When a large amounts of O2 consumption are carried out in a given area, less O2 is available to absorb the UV and so O3 occurs at the ground level when it usually happens high up in the atmosphere. So as we reverse Photosynthesis we use up the available O2, allowing UV to pass through to us and the CO2 absorbs and holds onto the heat energy. That is why we are using 85 to 100 spf now yet 30 years ago we didn't use any. When the majority of people understand this simple chemistry we will outlaw the burning of fossil fuels? If we stopped today the climate will stay about the same, meaning the unbearable summer heat will just be unbearable rather than deadly. And we will still be able to live at high altitude without dying from exposure to intense UV Energy.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 5 months ago

Clear-

Ya know, I gotta thank you. Without a little bit o' crazy in these forums they tend to get a little dull and boring. But boy howdy, not this one. You got all sorts of fun, unrealistic and incredibly interesting views on things. Without you, we'd just be a bunch of frustrated sane people. But with your help, at least we're entertained. So in the end, thank you. Keep up the crazy; lord knows we need it.

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Clearsky 4 years, 5 months ago

Simple Chemistry! If you are burning something you are reversing Photosynthesis. Using up O2, releasing CO2. Who are the crazy ones? The ones destroying or the ones trying to educate? We will all pay the price! "The future is here we are here we are on our own" Grateful Dead

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bandmama 4 years, 5 months ago

ahhh... clearsky- you know the damage human poo does to the planet? Would you suggest that we do away with babies too? They poop a lot, so do old people..... Oh yeah, depending on how many servings of veggies I eat a day..........

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sledneck 4 years, 5 months ago

Bigfoot, are you back on the co2 bandwagon?

Seriously, what are you people smokin??? There is no viable alternative. Hope and change are not fuels.

Fossil fuels are my freind; they keep me warm. Wood is good. Coal is the goal. Gas kicks ass. Oil saves toil.

Fossil, fossil, fossil... Sounds funny but contains lots of BTU's!

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

.

1999, I guess things have changed since I used toe clips on my bike pedals back in the 1960s, they were inconvenient to re-engage. But I never considered a trackstand, just kept moving or if I had to stop I'd look for a street sign or pickup truck to hold on to.

Interesting thing about the whole CO2 and climate change debate is that there are a whole lot of factors that are not always given due weight in the predictions.

I visited the Shrine of Democracy at Mount Rushmore a couple of weeks ago, and on the way home found a great new attraction in Hot Springs, The Mammoth Museum. It is an ancient sinkhole that became a death trap for a few centuries, now partially excavated and enclosed.

What struck me was that in the displays describing theories of the creatures extinction the presentations were objective and balanced, with the evidence and conjecture that supported each presented together with that which would tend to contradict it.

A little further down they had a presentation on climate change, and again, one was expected to draw their own conclusions if any were to be had. There were at least a dozen significant contributing factors described.

A particularly memorable tidbit was the statement that during the Jurassic the atmospheric CO2 was around 1600, I think that's about 10 times the present level? Anyway so high that if temperature is substantially driven by that force one would expect the planet to be uninhabitable.

But life was flourishing, amidst all those deserts and jungles, enough to be putting large amounts of hydrocarbons into geologic deposits, which are coming in handy right now as we develop more sustainable ways of generating energy.

I'm not saying there is nothing to the "greenhouse effect" the data seem to indicate that there is a real link. All I'm saying is there is a whole lot more to be considered in making predictions. We could sure be causing ourselves more problems that we would wish for, some serious crises that will put pressures on civilization we are unable to resolve while keeping Liberty and Human Dignity intact.

But we won't destroy the planet, nor the life upon it. I believe we may destroy our national independence by exporting so much of our wealth that we have too little left to sustain our economy. This must be the motivation to develop alternatives to fossil fuels, and to make wise use of the reserves of those precious resources.

.

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

.

Brent, can the index for selecting from active discussions be lengthened? On a day like this with many topics generating responses, some get pushed off the list in less than a day.

Thank you,

JF

.

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

Another funny trackstand video.

This looks almost idential to the guy I saw fall in the street last summer. Funny stuff.

I'm with John, at least on the toeclips subject. Toeclips were not the easiest thing to take off and reengage but clipless pedals are a cinch. I just don't see these guys these days doing trackstands with toeclips. They all have clipless pedals.

It really is OK, We won't think any less of you if you put a foot on the ground. Everybody, just let go of your preconceived notions. It doesn't make you an inferior cyclist if you put a foot down. :o)

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

By the way skledneck, wood is not a fossil fuel. If you are going to predicate you affinity for burning fossil fuels and allow that predication to define your personality, then at least do a little homework and learn what a fossil fuel actually is.

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bubba 4 years, 4 months ago

OK, I haven't read this thread for a while, but I am somewhat surprised that it devolved into a global warming debate before anyone pointed out how utterly stupid the letter that sparked this discussion is.

First point: "the words we keep hearing attached to the word “bicyclist.” Rude, disrespectful, dangerous, arrogant road and trail hogs." I don't think that is true at all, so far, I have only heard those things from small group of people, all of whom are anonymous commenters on a newspaper website. Since Ms Wendt opted to put those words in someone else's mouth, even she didn't say it. If you hang out with people who are anti-bike, you might hear those things, but trust me, the majority of us never hear that except for when we're wasting time on the pilot site.

Second Point: "We have all witnessed the people who ride five and six abreast, flipping off the line of cars they are holding up." I have honestly never seen that - in all my years of driving and cycling, I have never flipped off a drive, or been flipped off by a bike, or had a driver do anything that would warrant being flipped off. If you are constantly getting flipped off, perhaps you should re-evaluate how you drive.

Third point: "We all know the rules of the road for boats..." I highly doubt many people here do. The Starboard vessel generally has the right of way, not the larger one, except for in the case of vessels so large they are treated as land masses (cargo ships, aircraft carriers) - in that case, the smaller vessel is expected to steer clear, just as they would an island. If a car and a Semi get in an accident, the car is not automatically at fault because the semi is bigger, so your proposed rules of the road clearly don't apply.

I am all for education of cyclists, and I am not saying that all cyclists around here obey all the rules, but for the most part, drivers and cyclists here do a good job of sharing the road, most of us have probably never had an altercation while cycling or driving. Stating that the vast majority of the community does not cycle is a bit of a stretch too - I would be willing to bet that way more than 1/2 of the people in this county own at least 1 bicycle, which means that cyclists are in fact the majority.

'Policing our own?' Really? Should we have bike cops specifically for bicycle rules, pedestrian cops for jaywalkers, traffic cops for cars? Or should we pool our property and sales tax together, form a thing called 'government' and have a centralized set of rules and enforcement bodies that police all those things. Oh wait, that's what we do already. For what it's worth, roads are funded by Federal dollars (income tax), State Dollars (income and sales tax) County Dollars (Property and Sales tax) and municipal dollars (sales tax) as well as a token amount from vehicle registration fees.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 4 months ago

Interesting statistic about tonight's MTB race: 214 competitors... :-)

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

I'm really not getting how this whole load of crud boils down basically to respect, sharing the roads in general and common courtesy. Me- in a car You-on a bike Do all that we can not to impede traffic and be safe, Think of the others on the road if on bike or in a car. Stop the freaking whimpering and be a community that supports both. We have a heck of a lot to offer both parties of interest. Drivers of cars be aware of smaller means of transport, and bikers please pull to the side when need be or whatever. I am a bit of a smart a$$, but this whole discussion is way over the top. Lets find another topic to be po'ed at and rant about. What about the person streaking that the SSPD couldn't locate, now THAT is something to discuss!!!! Not a single smart alec comment. I am so disappointed.

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1999 4 years, 4 months ago

robin, what does the number of people who did the race have to do with bikers policing their own?

how does that number affect this topic?

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Amy Harris 4 years, 4 months ago

All you anonymous people spewing invective ought to say who you are so the rest of us can steer clear of you. You obviously have anger management issues. Just be courteous and CHILL OUT.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 4 months ago

1999: your post in this forum : July 21, 2010 at 6:17 p.m

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Jonathan Casson 4 years, 4 months ago

I'm curious, yampavalleyboy....in your opinion, who IS entitled to use the "public" roads?

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Sid, I choose to remain anonymous because I was given that choice when I elected to take part in these forums. I may be the person who bags your groceries, or the person who performs your next mammogram. It doesn't matter. In this forum I was given the choice of publicly stating my opinion with or without my legal name and place of employment shown to all. May I be so blunt as to say, that those who have elected to be public with thier names are getting MORE (small town gossip!!) than little bit of public notice. In a community so small, sometimes being anonymous is a positive thing. Makes people think about others views/opinions without judgement in relation to where/what that person does to support his/her family in the valley. To call one out when they are not sharing your view is a bully-type tactic. If YOU are so unsure of your convictions, then dont post your views in a public forum. Your need, and those who demand public "who are you" attitudes make me think of things like the Salem witch hunts, just because I may not share your view, does not mean I cant be civil and polite to you at Safeway. If I knew who you were, I would do all I could to keep my kid away from certain closed minded individuals. in the general sense. Because I DON'T know who you are, I can let myself and my child judge on his/her own. Not just because of views expressed here. In our Forum... The Peoples Pilot.... HA!

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Scott Ford 4 years, 4 months ago

Bandmama - A well articulated reason for allowing anonymous postings.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Why thank you Scott. Your views are apprciated, as well as your CHOICE to post under your name. I CHOOSE to voice an opinion without possibily offending a client or customer, thus maybe disrespecting my employer who has treated me well and kept me employed. This doesn't imply that I cant state my views, it does however, give me a voice in our small community. Without threat of harming my family for being outspoken. Ok,possibily a big mouth...or perhaps stating something that others are hesitant to say......

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 4 months ago

And here's to the a-hole bikers(cyclists, excuse me) that blitz through intersections during 5-10ft gaps in traffic, while jamming out to your ipod: You're all imbiciles and I hope you're not surprised when you end up as a grease spot in the middle of the road. Please bear in mind, and not to be redundant in the context of this forum but, our roads are purpose built to carry automobimles that are normally in excess of a couple thousand pounds. If you talk to most any law enforcement officer for long enough you'll most likely hear them refer to a vehicle as a weapon. This is for good reason. More often than not, things don't turn out so well when a 2000lbs car meets with anything else of sizable mass, while in motion. Some logical people would be forced to draw the conclusion that firing themselves through an intersection like greased lightening might be somewhat of a bad idea. I guess that some people are impervious to that type of reasoning though.

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bubba 4 years, 4 months ago

YVB, how's that grass roots initiative to require license plates on bikes coming? Or are you still just planting the seeds on the blog?

Many people have addressed your comment of 'not paying your share' in the past, and sorry, but no matter how many times you repeat it, it is simply not true. Roads are funded from a number of different sources, the smallest of which is vehicle registration fees - those are supposed to be tied to the weight of a vehicle, so that there is a correlation between the damage a vehicle does to the road and the fee it pays. Since bikes weigh so little and do not impact the roads like cars and trucks, it is probably more cost effective for the state to not require tags than to try and administer a program like you propose.

I am not sure why you are pointing out that these are public roads while at the same time advocating that the use of them be limited to transportation modes you approve of. Maybe you ought to look up the definition of 'public?'

Extremely large vessels are treated as land masses because they cannot possibly alter their course or slow down to avoid a smaller vessel, and their movement and course is predictable and obvious to any observer. This is not the case with cars, trucks or semis. It is completely within your power to slow down for or steer around another road user. But enough debating about how bad of an analogy that was; what this whole debate comes down to is that you feel that slowing down or steering around another road user is too much of an inconvenience, and you want the laws changed to accommodate your view of how the road should be, rather than be inconvenienced by slowing down now and then.

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1999 4 years, 4 months ago

Robin,

you said that the local series has over 200 at every event which clearly wasn't true.

We all know that cycling is very popular in steamboat. Thats a big DUH>

All the MORE reason for the riders to start policing their own.

All the more reason to get a handle on what we have going on before taking on more

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Brant McLaughlin 4 years, 4 months ago

I agree, there is a need for anonymous posting in a small town paper like the pilot. Many of us are employed at businesses that serve customers from both sides of every argument. Because I post under my name, I personally choose not to post opinions on controversial subjects because of the repercussions it might have for my coworkers. If my opinions were to cause customers who don't agree with me to take their business elsewhere it harms my coworkers financially. That would be unfair to them so I refrain.

I realize that some people feel very strongly about particular subjects and cannot refrain from posting their opinions. If it weren't anonymous, some of those opinions would not be shared. We the readers would miss out on how some of our friends and neighbors actually feel. These folks need an outlet that allows them to share their opionion without creating repercussions against their businesses and coworkers.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 4 months ago

Please note that this is my personal comment on an anonymous blogging (not RCR)

New technology, the web, email, blogs, social media are all beautiful things and have changed the way that the world communicates forever. The fact that the Pilot/Today has become such a multi-media operation is beneficial to us all. However, one comment that I have is that this forum has changed the way that people talk to each other on some issues in a way that is damaging to our community.

It was just a few short years ago that this forum didn't exist. That's not to say that people didn't disagree on the issues of the day and find a way to express that before, but if they did express this in public (public comment at a meeting / letter to the editor) they were to be identified with their comments and usually held to account on the truth and justification for their comments. Otherwise comments that circulated in "coffee-shop" or "bar-side" conversation would fall into the more accepted format of hearsay or the infamous "rumor-mill" where they could be taken for what they were rather than being broadcast to the entire community with the same penetration as the paper itself.

I feel confident in the Pilot/Today that they think about what they say when they write a story, and consider the weight of their words as they speak to the community. I am not saying that they get it right every time - no one is infallible in my book. But, they are held to account for a story or fact that may not be the truth and typically through these channels the truth comes out at some point (or some version of it).

Facilitating a forum that offers no accountability to those that comment anonymously is inviting some commentary that does not carry the integrity that deserves to benefit from the audience that the new technology offers. If you want to sit in your basement in your pajamas and rant at the world write a blog. There is a billion of them out there. If you have something interesting to say you will find an audience. But for the Pilot to encourage this low level of conversation within our community is an abuse of the medium that they use and damages the fabric of this community.

There are still plenty of emotional commentaries from named forum participants. So I don't think that this constitutes muzzling or censorship. We just have to think about they way that as a civilized society we wish to speak to each others and how we wish to be spoken to publicly on big issues. This forum is just facilitating personal attacks that aim to undermine the credibility of organizations and individuals with no fear of the consequences.

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routtcountyriders 4 years, 4 months ago

(continuation of my personal comment.)

The current situation has brought the forum to the gutter with so many comments falling into the category of "cheap-shots". The result that this is turning differences of opinion into entertainment / titillation and lowering mutual respect for all in our community.

I encourage the Pilot to think seriously about what is best for us and make the right decision about the forum identities.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 4 months ago

Robin- Just out of curiosity, what comments have qualified as "cheap shots" in your mind since your last posting?

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

I hope you don't think my attempt at some humor with the trackstand videos are cheap-shots. I was actually trying to keep things a bit more lighthearted.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Funny isn't it, that any comment posted by an anonymous person whose opinion doesn't match those who use real names is considered a cheap shot or of little or no value to the conversation. Brant, thank you for comments. Just because my opinion differs from my employers/neighbors/friends ect, does not mean that I want to shout at the top of my lungs my side of the debate. There is a thing called decretion and respect for others. For instance, you may be agnostic, but you certainly wouldn't offend some little old lady going into church by telling her that religion is a fairy tale. That wouldn't be "polite". You may not like to imbibe, but you wouldn't go into the Tap House on a Friday night and call the beer drinkers drunks. Wouldn't be prudent now would it? And to Robin, who ever implied that I wore jammies while ranting in my basement, maybe I dont.....

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 4 months ago

Today I drove Twentymile and, in total, saw about 50 cyclists. What was the one cyclist that I remember? It was the idiot that felt compelled to ride in the very center of the lane even as I pulled up behind her. It was one of the rolling sections with impaired visibility of oncoming traffic so I could not safely pull well into the other lane.

That cyclist appeared to be a largely inept cyclist apparently unaware of the situation around her and while wanting to ride next to her friend, is unable to ride closer than 5 feet to her friend. And when I finally passed her giving her 6 to 8 feet, it felt like I was buzzing her because if she were to look over her shoulder then she'd probably drift 5 feet to the left and potentially into my path.

That cyclist's incompetence is far easier to remember that all of the other cyclists that were riding competently.

Though, there was one other cyclist that I remember from today. It was a mom with her young daughter on a tag along. I was prepared to give her extra wide clearance, but was impressed that despite the child shifting from side to side on the tag along, that mommy was able to ride a straight line in the 8 inches between the white line and the edge of the pavement. Just goes to show that a skilled cyclist can ride a straight line in the right spot despite the elements. And thus giving her 6 or 8 feet when passing might as well have been 50 feet because there was a 0% chance that she would swerve or wobble in front of a moving car.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Scott, great comment. As with anything it IS the not so nice experiences that stick out and are more often than not made examples of. I would venture to say that 99% of the bikers that ride are polite and educated as to safe riding. It is the that small number left over that causes discord and sometimes downright "anger" at people who will not "share" the road they are riding. And yes, butt head drivers of cars cause the same feelings. I think it would be an excellent idea for the Pilot to print a list of common courtesy "do's and dont's' for both, riders and drivers. We have had the regular notices during season about knowing the code, why not with the summer bike season? I wont say I am sorry, it annoys the hell out of me when a biker with his little feet strapped onto his peddles to pull along side of me and holds my vehicle for support. To me, it is MY car, I dont want anyone to touch it when parked, why would I feel safe when I could move at any moment and not realize that that person is using my car as a kick stand? If I am driving on a road that the speed limit is 25 and the bike/car in front of me is only going 8mph I get equally annoyed. Even farm trucks will pull to the side and frequently wave another driver around, just to be polite. Bikers should do the same. The point is to share the road, and not to impede traffic and cause dangers for all involved. if the speed limit is 25 then everyone should be hitting that pretty close, if you dont want to, fine with me, just let me pass safely. Be as aware on a bike as I have to be in a car as to what is going on around you. Simple, respectful ways that yes we can all enjoy the ride. I will however point out that Oak street has designated lanes for cycleists. Yampa, while a bit less marked is MUCH safer than Lincoln. I honestly feel that bikes need to use the side streets for our safety as well as thiers. And yes, if you feel the need to keep your feet strapped to the peddles than you should NOT be on Lincoln,a hazzard to everyone. What if you were hit, how many people would you involve in a bad situation because you felt entitled to ride main street, lets not forget that is is also HWY40....not everyone that drives on it is familiar with the hold your breath and keep you fingers crossed mindset of the locals. Be smart and be safe, shouldn't be such an issue.

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 4 months ago

Bandmama, "There is a thing called decretion,..."

The noun form of to decrement, to decrease? I suppose there is a such a thing, but I am not sure how it is relevant to the discussion.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

obviously didn't use spell check, am aware of that before anyone points it out.....

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

scott, that comment was in response to the anonymous postings Way back when Mr Wall was having some very public issues, I posted a comment, an employee of the Pilot used my info to contact my employer as he/she didn't share my views. I was asked not to make comments such as the one posted. My employer asked that I never use my name in such a forum as it could hurt the customer base, but they had no issues with the opinion expressed. Out of respect for my employer I try very hard to only write real opinions on off hours, using my account so that it wouldn't hurt bussiness. But I feel very strongly about being able to express my opinions. .

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 4 months ago

Bandmama, I wouldn't worry too much about some cyclist touching your car. I spent 15 years biking to and from work in San Jose and I put my hand on a car maybe a dozen times. Think of it less like the cyclist touching your property, but more like pedestrians walking along the sidewalk in which one touches the other. Reasons like losing balance and using another to regain balance. Or when another is another is moving so unpredictably that you use your arm to define where you are walking so that it is a gentle touch instead of a collision. Maybe the person was losing balance for whatever reason and decided it was better to use you for support instead of falling on you. It is so easy to get on and off the pedals that only the dumbest of the dumb would lean on a car instead of getting out of a pedal.

It is also possible that the cyclist is touching the vehicle because the vehicle is in the middle of a dangerous move that could easily run over the cyclist and so the cyclist is touching the car to be sure it isn't moving while the cyclist is looking at the traffic, crosswalk or such to see if it is safe to proceed. Of the times I touched a car, it was almost always because I was wanting to go straight at an intersection and a car was seemingly trying to push me out of the way to make a right turn. Such as someone turning into the bike lane and into my path before the intersection. Or someone looking to turn right and ignoring that I am there waiting to go straight (and always that car failed to use the space I left to get to my right to make the right turn, but instead from a position to go straight has suddenly decided to turn right).

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Thank you for the explanation Scott. But I still dont appreciate someone hanging onto my car while I am trying to drive. It is sometimes hard to see the right rear blindspot. I am NOT trying to be a smart a$$ here, but when walking down the street, I also do my best not to touch people randomly without making some sort of eye contact to let them know that I need to pass or such. To be sitting at a red light and suddenly realize that my mode of transport is being used as someone's kickstand is a little bit of a "HEY HOOOOOOEEEE" Do I go when the light turns green? Do I wait for them to remove thier hands from my car? Do I piss off the car behind me because I hesitate? OR, do I just take my foot off the brake and hope for the best? Please understand my point, How many people do you see walking down any sidewalk holding out thier arms to judge how close they walk by someone? If they did on a regular basis, eventually someone in little white coats, or perhaps a nice officer of the law would probably pick them up for what some would consider an unwanted assault of personal space. If I am at at a dead stop at a red light, then I am in NO way in the middle of a dangerous move. On the other hand, thank you for clearing up the strapping on of the feet. To me that seems as silly as strapping my foot to the gas and putting a brick under the brake. If you cant control your method of transport, then you dont need to be depending on mine without my knowledge to do so. But I feel much better knowing that you guys have more control than I thought.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

about that right turn thing? If I am at an intersection, using my right turn signal then the biker needs to wait behind me till I make the turn if I reached the light/stop sign first. Same as if we were all in cars. You dont pass on the right hand side when in a car, you shouldn't on a bike either, same concept, blind spots.

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blue_spruce 4 years, 4 months ago

we should stop worrying about bikes and start thinking about drilling for oil and gas instead!

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Zed 4 years, 4 months ago

blue_spruce: so true, because clearly no one involved in the gulf drilling operations has put any thought into the process of drilling for oil. If they had we probably would have had a better/quicker solution. Spill Baby Spill!

Given how much money is to be made from oil and gas operations I suspect there are a lot of people putting plenty of though into how they can get rich quick...

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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Robin,

When I first joined this forum I had some really weird and insulting things said to me, just a few.I kinda had an issue with the anonymous postings, made a few comments about that too.

After a while, I came to know most of them by their opinions, positions, style and so forth. Some I only glance at, some I truly look forward to hearing from. Some I read through even though I know to expect that they are a little wacky.

But we recently had a serious discussion about whether to disallow anonymity on this site and I became an advocate of keeping it like it is. The rude comments don't really hurt much, and the potential loss of many valuable observations is not worth the improved decorum that may or may not result. There is also something important to be learned from those opinions you would never hear in public.

(Actually, you can also hear these vile comments in real life if you eavesdrop a little, they are usually made to ones buddies over a beer). Plenty of hatred in many forms still out there sorry to say.

(I don't worry about using my name because no one should disagree with my opinions.)

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mtroach 4 years, 4 months ago

robin, as for you personal comments on blogging, you should have known about this forum well before loging on, it's easy to avoid such comments by not participating. It's been a attack and slam forum from day one. It's always been a negitive underbelly of our community. I don't want the forum to be about responsible public comments, that's what real world public meeting are for. The forum is a place where anyone can spout off comments from the top of their head without the fear of real world retribution. I for one want to hear what people are really thinking and not some PC version that offends noone, and leaves real opinions unheard. I would suggest that you leave the posting of the RCR's party line to someone else, get an anynomous login and tell us your real thoughts without the burden of representing the cycling public. And keep in mind that as the top dog, and "voice" of the RCR, all negitive commentary associated with cycling get's aimed at you, simply because of the position you put yourself into. Noone twisted your arm and made you participate in the forum or become RCR's president, or for that matter made you participate in this forum as RCR's president. You may feel that if you didn't respond that noone would, but i think that if you took a step back and away from the forum, (orRCR) you would see that there are many people in this town ready and willing to take up the banner that the old guard of RCR has been burdened with all these many years in this forum, in real world public meetings and in your club's leadership.

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mtroach 4 years, 4 months ago

VYB, did you deface the "Share the Roads" with "Tax" stickers all up and down RCR129? It's your share the tax retoric that's to blame for the additional costs our county now faces to undo the damage to these public signs. Thanks.

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JusWondering 4 years, 4 months ago

Four situations which are perfect examples of why motorists HATE cyclists in Routt County .I had lots of errands to run this weekend so had lots of exposure to the best and worst of my peers that enjoy the open air (before I vent also know that I came across quite a few courteous riders as well).

  1. On Friday I had a run which required a drive over Twentymile. Just outside of OC an idiot cyclist flys beside me crossing the double yellow ... and I was driving 50. I call him an idiot for obvious reasons. Honestly, I was looking at the guy as an organ donor... at least his heart should be strong.

  2. On Saturday, I found myself on 14 just past RCR 200 (going up the pass) and came across a group four abreast. I was flipped off before I even passed them; still scratching my head as to why. I often wonder why someone would try to ride this stretch of road... it has absolutely NO SHOULDER with narrow vehicle lanes. Lots of RVs too; to me it is a matter of time before there is a fatality.

  3. On Sunday morning just outside of Phippsburg I came across a group of women cyclists at the railroad bridge riding three abreast. I was going 50 (the speed limit) and they were going 8 MPH. Another car was coming from the South so I had to lock up the brakes because of their refusal to ride single file. It made me want to get out of my car and shout "WTF are you thinking?"

  4. I had occasion to be on Gore Pass Sunday afternoon. As I was nearing Rock Creek (near the cattle guard) I came across a cyclist (complete with saddle bags). Moron would not get out of the of the center lane to allow me to pass.

I am a cyclist and love to ride; but have to tell you that I will reconsider where and how I ride after this weekend! Honestly, it also made me reconsider the safety of riding certain roads in our County. No shoulders make for very dangerous riding and the days of not seeing a car on any of the aforementioned roads during a ride are long gone. BTUSA; not until some things can be done about the saftey of riding many of our back roads. Perhaps start with providing tourists lists of the safest places to ride.

Does anyone remember when they had "no bicycles" signs on I-70 from the tunnel to Georgetown? It used to annoy the heck out of me. Perhaps it is time to bring them back on some of the roads while having "Share the Road" signs on others.

Before I get flamed on "rights" to ride any road; great, go ahead and exercise that right. If I have occassion to ride with you I promise I will mourn at your funeral. As for me, I will be racking my bike on my vehicle to get to roads that were designed in a way to facilitate safe riding or have such low volumes of traffic as to be safe (kind of hard to find these days).

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

Do you think the people defacing the "Share the Road" signs, making them read "Share the Taxes" realize they are just wasting taxpayer money that could be put toward our roads? The county either buys new signs or pays someone to clean up the defaced ones. Think about it.

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sledneck 4 years, 4 months ago

Whomever did it, theyre my heros... and before you lug-nuts start with the accusations, I have a bombproof alibi, 2000 miles away. I've been thinking about that very thing for over a year and darned if someone else didn't beat me to it.

Whoever you are, thanks!!! The timing with my absence was perrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect!!! If I ever find out who you are I'll give U $100!

Forget replacing them with taxpayer money. If cyclists want them they can hold a bake sale.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Gee, anyone ever notice how many times a local has also posted under an anonymous name condolences for a lost community member, just because, ever notice how many positive comments are made under many articles? Anyone ever notice the humour, while sometimes very dry or over the top is amusing to all? Yes, these forums can sometime create some hostile comments, but that is human nature. Yet it allows many of us to think of a side of the debate, and mull it over and respond. This is probably the cheapest, most entertaining and sometimes extemely informative bit of information locally. No one of us is forced to participate, but when one does, one opens themselves up to sometimes negative comments. if you cant deal with the heat...back away...very simple....dont post. Juswondering, love your comments, fair and funny!!!

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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Sledneck

I confess, where do I pick up my reward?

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dave reynolds 4 years, 4 months ago

well here's one Tues while traveling west on River Road I encountered some riders two abreast wouldn't move over so well I just followed them..little did they know that a City patrol was behind me..We got to the Stop sign at River Road and Spar Street..the riders blew the sign(can you believe that)..I Stopped turned left and looked in my Rear view sure as I'm breathing the Officers Lights went on..needless to say had to go around the block..sure as the day is long either the officer was warning them or giving them a ticket .. Then Wend. at Maple and Spring Creek Two Way Stop..yep I see the biker but I got to the stop sign first so I turned left and the biker blew the STOP sign (Gee that never happens)..gets off his bike and say "You almost ran me over"..told him " The signs work both ways"..all he could say was "Wanna fight Dude"..nope not a 6:00 A.M....Gee I don't know why we want to run you over..NO RESPECT,NO COURTESY, and DOWN RIGHT COCKY..you all are not Math Majors or you would know that if a vehicle weighing 2,500 lbs hits a bike wieghing at best 200 lbs..WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO LOSE..Most riders I have encountered have been respectful but like drivers there are the small percentages that make the rest of us look bad..soooooooooooo keep the Peace stay safe respect each other lose your egos, and pride and be grateful we live in such an awesome State.

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

Here's one for you. How much oil, gas and coal does it take to manufacture a bike? ;o)

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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The point is that when the bike stops he has to pedal hard to regain momentum. We lardbutts in out trucks just have to put on the gas. So yielding to a bike breezing a stop is just a friendly thing to do.

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bandmama 4 years, 4 months ago

Dear Officer, If this logic runs true, does this mean if I have a bad fuel injector, and my engine runs sluggish, that I can also run through a stop sign because it takes more effort and time to regain momentum? Cool. Lets post "SLOW" signs instead of stop signs. Thanks. Now that I understand the whole yielding thing...... Have a super cool friendly day! VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOm!!!!!

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 4 months ago

weststmbtres- What exactly would your point be in asking such a question? I don't think that the debate is over what kind of energy and resources it takes to manufacture one machine or the other. I think that the main question here is operating expenses. Bikes=human power....Cars=oil power

JohnOpenspacing- If only our laws revolved around doing the friendly thing, right? Then, all us crazed motorists wouldn't have to worry about being enraged by thoughtless bikers(oh sorry, cyclists) who refuse to move out of mainstreet traffic lanes. Because I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only motorist out there that has felt the sincere disdain emanating from the "bad apples" of the cycling community. It just doesn't seem all that friendly to me when I encounter all of the non-give-a-$#!+ cyclists that ride around town with hearts filled with despise and loathing towards motorists, but maybe I'm wrong. Blatant disregard for traffic is no excuse for a cyclist to be all upset at motorists that are trying to avoid running over one of you two-wheeled, motor-less(and even sometimes, motor-assisted) freaks. I have only one idea to offer that could be put into play for safeties sake. Anyone else remember those triangular orange/red flags that sat atop 4-6ft poles that attach to bikes/go-karts/4-wheelers/etc... etc? Well, it's not much, but how about we make it so that if you want to ride your uni/bi/tri-cycle on ANY road that was originally designed for vehicles, you have to sport something similar to those flags, for visibilities sake? But that would probably be WAY too inconvenient for all the anti-motor types, huh? The bottom line is, each side of the debate seems to be arguing completely different points. The cyclists don't seem to care about the safety aspects that the motorists are justifiably complaining about, because, let's face it, no cyclist cares if a motorist has to face man-slaughter charges. And a good majority of the motorists don't seem to give a damn about your motor-less efficiency, that you are all convinced is saving the planet. Quite the issue we have here.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 4 months ago

Oh, and please forgive the grammatical gaffes;

safety's sake visibility's sake

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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I use the same justification of saving the planet when I breeze the stops in my Chevy pickup.

.Being friendly is a good thing, never too late to start. "If Men Were Angels...".

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

The point is; "there is no point" It was somewhat of a rhetorical question written with the intent of injecting a bit of wry humor into the discussion. Note the smiley emoticon with a "wink"

I've never been one to attack someone for their use of grammer and punctuation. Matt Stoddard decided to belittle me one time when in my haste, I failed to put a question mark at the end of a question. That type of behavior constitutes and ad hominem attack whcih the pilot says is against their rules.

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JusWondering 4 years, 4 months ago

Westy, you misspelled which in your last post; you should feel ashamed. ;)

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weststmbtres 4 years, 4 months ago

All this criticism, I just don't know how I'll continue to live and breathe. ;o)

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sledneck 4 years, 4 months ago

John F, Nice try but I know you too well just from reading your posts. You would never deface public property, Your just not that type.

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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Sled

You know me too well, BUT you fail to realize that constructive alteration is not defacement, THEREFORE it is within my modus operendi.

Unless someone else can make a better claim I still call first dibs.

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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yvb, was that meant for the Rick Akin thread where the weenie eater asked if you were bored?

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John Fielding 4 years, 4 months ago

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Sled, it seems my attempt at humor was not entirely successful. Sorry if you or anyone else was taking me seriously, I certainly don't.

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