Mike Lyons: Take it back

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In the interest of self-preservation — not only of mine and those closest to me, but of all the good citizens of this country — I feel compelled to express an appeal to Heaven. This once young, thriving, industrious and glorious nation is on the verge of a calamitous slide into complete degradation. Our leaders in Washington have abandoned us. In the interest of their self-preservation, they have decided to ignore the sworn oath that was required of them the day they took office: to protect and preserve the Constitution of the United States of America.

Our leaders have chosen not only to ignore, but to trample on and kick in the dirt our precious Constitution, and in doing so have done the same to “we the people.” This great nation was born with conservative values and free-market principles; the leaders in Washington have chosen to take us down a path in complete opposition to these ideals. It is time for we the people to take our country back. In 11 short months, we will have the opportunity to stand tall, raise our voices and tell those in Washington that we will not stand idly by while they “fundamentally transform” our country. November 2010 will be here soon. Let’s make it historic.

Editor's note: The letter originally published under the name Ellis MacDhony. The author's real name is Mike Lyons, a Clark resident.

Comments

seminative 4 years, 9 months ago

What part of the Constitution mandates conservative principles and free markets? Ellis, it sounds like you would like to go back to a time when women and non-whites were not allowed to vote or own property. Is this the young, thriving, industrious country that you refer to and would like to return us to.

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Steve Lewis 4 years, 9 months ago

Yes to what Windle said and the first 2 posts above.

In my opinion our country is showing more respect for its constitution and for the civil rights of its citizens than previously. Since the regulation of mega corporations is what Congress is currently debating, Ellis may be making the mistake of holding the rights of mega corporations as equal to the rights of the people. The rights sought by mega corporations run largely AGAINST the rights of the people.

And I'll agree with Ellis to a degree. I also feel our leaders in Washington, Dem and Rep alike, have abandoned us. Probably in the interest of their self-preservation, when big industry is involved they will truly ignore the people they pretend to represent. The amount of campaign contributions accepted by officials in both parties from the very industries they pretend to regulate is disgusting.

How stupid do they think we are? Well, stupid enough. We are eternally willing to leap into the narrow but timeworn tangents such as abortion and gay marriage whenever useful topics such as corruption or earmarks threaten to gain real traction.

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seminative 4 years, 9 months ago

Good sleuthing snobow. It seems that the Pilot did not do it's due diligence before posting a letter from an enigma.

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blue_spruce 4 years, 9 months ago

its probably one of the usual right wing-nugs that write into the paper

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trump_suit 4 years, 9 months ago

Such a nice appeal to Heaven, I am sure it will produce results for you. Nowhere in this article do I find who I am supposed who to vote for? There is just this drunbeat against anyone currently in office.

Am I to beleive that Republican = Goodness and God While Democrat = Evil and Devil? IS Mr. Obama truly an evil man? What about Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, or Joe Biden, where do they stand on the "Heaven Scale"? Do we vote out all of the Congressmen, or is there a list of good vs. evil somewhere?

What about our constitutional rights agains illegal search and seizure? Things like illegal wiretapping and Gov't agents going thru your email? Aren't these things a violation of our rights also? It seems to me that any administration that hooks up a mans genitals to car batteries is not on the side of God. Remember they only showed us some of the pictures, the real story in those overseas prisons was far worse than the public has been told. Why do you think the CIA erased all the tapes?

When the FBI's Carnivore program "accidentally" read all emails sent in the USA after 9/11, was that truly a mistake? Why did the Bush administration find it necessary to bypass the FISA courts that had been setup for that specific purpose? Is that the people we should put back into place?

While you may or may not agree with the policies of the current administration and Congress, it would be helpful if we all made our decisions on what is right for the country instead of these useless appeals to Heaven. It would further help if our politicians would actually do their jobs and try to get the best legislation passed instead of the constant bickering that is currently in vogue.

I truly find it difficult to beleive that Heaven cares much about banking bonuses, credit card rules or auto bailouts. It seems to me that heaven would be more concerned with how you treat your neighbor or whether you stopped to help that little girl on the side of the road. I think what really matters are those small everyday actions that make your little piece of the world a better place. I am not sure Washington could do much to change that basic equation.

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kathy foos 4 years, 9 months ago

Sounds like propaganda from an extremist,just stupid really,but it does make me want to mention that we need to stop the workers from other countrys taking our jobs and crashing our borders at will. That should be a given that it wont happen by our government,instead its excepted as the norm.We need those jobs and the money needs to stay in our economy,past generations did not have to deal with this plague,Its sickening..Maybe American consumers should boycott business that hire visa or illegals over American workers.The future generations of American born workers are going to starve to death while visa workers ,illegals,take the money and send it to another economy in another country.If you stand up and say anything you are catagorized as a bigot of some sort,this is the worst threat to our country in my opinion,though there are many to choose from.

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Brent Boyer 4 years, 9 months ago

snowbow, We did follow up with the letter writer before publication (via a phone call) but clearly did not take the additional steps to verify the authenticity of his name. The author's real name is Mike Lyons of Clark. We have updated the online version to reflect this.

Thanks for your efforts, Brent Boyer

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kathy foos 4 years, 9 months ago

Its funny in these opinion articles ,that people would take the time to write out the thing and post it but never respond on the comment board.Where are you now Ellis and why wont you respond to these comments?Chicken?Kinda weird.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

Just a few comments and observations-

I wonder if Snowbow would take a minute to explain why it was so important to her to ferret out the identity of the author. I will speculate that she had good reasons, like perhaps determining if the author was her child’s teacher, or perhaps her motives were less noble, like affording her the opportunity to engage in some indignant shunning or economic reprisals to his business. I guess that she missed the irony about her anonymous postings.

The above commentators are an honor role of the left in the Yampa Valley. Here are found chronic malcontents, those with vestigial memories of European pogroms, discrimination against women and groups. They tolerate everything except speech which departs from correct thinking. Poor Mr. Lyons. Maybe he was leveling his charges against all the profligate politicians since Kennedy who spent our money, then our children’s money, and now, our great-grandchildren’s money. He used red flag words like, “conservative” and “free-market.” He appealed to divine intervention. What response could he expect? Well, his use of a pseudonym answers that.

Let us consider that ‘taking back’ the country means a return to times of more civility, less courseness, less vulgarity and less pornography. I assume that the above posters would find those civilizing attributes desirable. I would like a return to societal attitudes that individualism should be tempered with social responsibility, that immigrants should assimilate, that diversity has a centrifugal force that can destroy our identity as Americans. I think that judgmentalism is the village that Hillary Clinton should have been talking about as the way to install community values in children.

So here it comes, “Is this guy nuts? We can’t turn the clock back to 'Leave It to Beaver!” I understand that we have turned some corners that were desirable and necessary, particularly giving full citizen status to minorities and women. Nobody would want to be a modern wife in a 'Father Knows Best' model, well, maybe some Mormons. We can try to be more civil in our everyday discourse without betraying our fundamental beliefs as Americans, among which is tolerance of political expression. I enjoy the comments of you all, even the mogul Maoists, although I fear that they really mean what they say.

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freerider 4 years, 9 months ago

The constitution should now read " WE THE CORPORATION " and all of congress and the house bow down to it ....bought and paid for by lobbyists .....wanna take it back then we will have to " GET RID OF ALL LOBBYISTS " and then remove all charters from every corporation on the planet ...this will never happen because Americans have become sheep and most Americans actually defend the corruption because they have become dependent on it ....it's pathetic...all those solders that died to defend the constitution and now congress wipes their butt with it

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Scott Wedel 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr TaiChi, The author could have submitted an anonymous letter or have acknowledged as using a pseudonym. No, when contacted by the Pilot the person chose to lie and give a false name.

That is simply wrong.

I see no great conspiracy in determining the person had submitted a false name. Snowbow probably just looked the name up on Google and was surprised to see that was an unique name. The amount of effort required was minimal. All that was needed was just a little curiosity on whether that person was a neighbor or such.

I am surprised you think this is acceptable. I do not recall you having such a generous nature towards your ideological foes. So it would appear you are willing to accept deceit and misinformation as long as that person says stuff you agree with.

sdw

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Duke_bets 4 years, 9 months ago

The author has the blinders on for anything pre-Obama because he checks the R box when he votes..........Probably doesn't even read the agenda and just checks R on every line.

The 3rd post authored by windle was all that needed to be said. That was a valid response. Thank You, windle.

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Dukes comments are totally wrong. The story did not mention Obama nor did it say the problems facing this nation originated with Obama. Duke and companys' basic theme is "but BUUUUUUSH started it". What a freakin baby. Duke equally checks the "D" box so whats the difference. Yes Bush was wrong. Yes Obama is wrong. They ALL need to go. Many, even some of your favorites, need to see a firing squad.

Draw a line down the middle of this nation and put the left on one side and the right on the other. You could not build a wall high enough or put enough machine guns on the top of it to keep the leftists on their side. Their solutions are financially unsustainable.The end of that experiment would be another haiti. A basket case devoid of ideas, inventions, energy, currency, motivation or hope.

How I pitty the leftists in this nation, most of whom seem to live in perpetual fear. Afraid of the weather and the possibility it may change. Afraid of pollution. Afraid of the ocean which may rise. Afraid of work, especially in Steamboat. Afraid of the food in the store. Afraid of living without absolute guarantees like social security, medicare, health insurance, etc, etc, etc. Afraid of freedom and the responsibility it requires. Afraid to ski or ride bikes without helmets. Afraid of any expression of faith in God or a need for his guidance. Afraid of a society without a law for every concievable contingency. Pathetic!

The funny thing is they seem unafraid of the most terrifying thing of all... that we are reaching that Orwellian point where "that which is not forbidden is mandatory." This seems not to concern the lemmings at all.

I would rather take my chances with global warming, pollution, food poisoning, expensive medicine and the freedom to not only fly but to fall, than spend one miserable day in the society our current government is engineering for us,

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr. Windle, No one believes socialism/ communism works anymore unless they are stupid either!

The left started with global cooling in the "70s. Since that and global warming has now been proved to be B.S. they, of course, had to change the story yet again. "Climate change" has occurred for millions of years. Only a truly ignorant people would now, all of a sudden, believe it needs to stop changing. Only in recent, modern times has a nations wealth been so great and its ignorance so astounding as to allow the possibility and feasability of a deception like global warming/climate change. This is the first generation of Americans who are actually ignorant enough to buy that load of crap.

I am secure in my positions because they were not founded on peer pressure, assumtions or hidden agendas. I am not afraid of my food, my planet, or all the uncertainty life entails although one of those things will probably kill me. Life and its trials don't scare me nearly as much as the would-be Napoleons who want to save me from it. When I die I will die with my boots on, fighting if necessary; not standing in a beggars line, hat in one hand and the other outstretched for food like some animal begging its master. The state may be your solution for lifes difficulties but it will never be mine... ever.

Their bankrupt, basket case of a government isn't helping its people today in Haiti and ours won't be able to help our posterity. "Talk is cheap; it takes $$$ to buy whiskey".

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snowbear 4 years, 9 months ago

Snowbow and Windle you are scary!!! Do you by chance work for ACORN? You are the reason people do not use there real names.

I love my freedom and the choice to eat my big and tasty injected with ammonia, I do not need you protecting me from big business or anything else. I will ride my bike with out a helmet and enjoy the wind in my hair and I will take better care of my head than if it were protected by a helmet. If you do not like big business or lobbyist, DO NOT BUY THERE PRODUCTS!!!! Do not finance your houses or toys or use there credit cards. Grow your own food, make your own choices, and take responsibility for your life. God gives every bird it's food, but he does not throw it into its nest. And then to climate change, THE CLIMATE CHANGES, SPEICES COME AND GO! Are you so arrogant that you believe you are so powerful that you can change our universe! Wow!!

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snowbear 4 years, 9 months ago

Hey Windle Let me slow you down a bit. I never mentioned China Dude, but good for you for growing your own food. Meanwhile why don't you get to the point and quit rambling on so much about your "mulri" billion $$$$ lobbyists. And talk about calling the kettle black "anonymous".

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Windle, Every time someone uses a union they support overseas out-sourcing too! Every time someone supports more taxation they send jobs overseas too! Every time someone presumes to have a right to tax OTHERS for THEIR benevolent goals they send creators, inventors and risk taking businessmen overseas.

Snowbow, I've never tasted jerky or pork rinds. But I do know what it feels like to be attacked on a personal level by people who show no valid intelectual argument. You know those kind of people, don't you? The kind who abhor the message but offer no intelligent alternative. Those who have subscribed to a philosophy that makes them feel superior to people who watch the dukes of hazard. People who think their ideas are correct because someone on the same t.v. as the dukes told them they were right. The kind who condem others for not using their real name while THEY don't use THEIR real name! Those who rationalize putting government, which consists of corrupt men, in control of every aspect of our lives because we, as individuals, sometimes get things wrong

So instead of name-calling can any of you answer some simple questions? Why, if the earths climate has changed for millions of years, is it now imperative that we cause it to stop changing? Why have all the alarmists stopped calling it "global warming"? Why won't Al Gore debate scientists who disagree with his assertions? Why do agenda driven scientists try to hide climate data? Why are other planets, who have no SUVs, warming? How can all mans efforts compare to the effect of one volcano or slight change of the sun?

Why is "but BUUUUUUUSH started it" an excuse for continued fiscal insanity? Can a black man ever be wrong? (if black men are always right I reffer you to Thomas Sowell)

How will America help the next Haiti if WE are as bankrupt as they? Who will help the poor and starving world after the goose that lays golden eggs is eaten for lunch? Is it wise to be in debt? Has going into ridiculous debt ever gotten anyone you know out of debt?

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

I am sure those of you attacking the letter writer are aware of the Massachusetts Senate race that was won by a Republican tonight. I am sure you have a good excuse for why so many Democrats voted for a change from the Obama marxist agenda. I am waiting to see the Coakley concession speech with great hope for the change of our great Country back to a representative Republic as the founders designed it for "The People". The people have spoken tonight in Mass and we will speak again loud and clear this coming November. Have a good night and good luck in your hopes of realizing Socialism here in the USA. NOT!!!

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

@ see ---

I think you are over reacting to the Massachusetts Senate race.

Sure, the President's campaign support resulted in convincing losses in Virginia, New Jersey and now Massachusetts.

Sure, President Obama took Massachusetts by 26% and Rep Senator Brown won by 5% --- a 31% reversal.

Sure, the number one issue was health care even though Massachusetts already has universal health care.

Sure, the people indicated they did not like health care, back room deals, the special treatment given to Nebraska and Louisiana.

Sure, independent voters voted overwhelmingly for the Republican candidate.

Sure, losing Ted Kennedy's half a century hold on that seat to a Republican is a 'shot heard around the world'.

But so what?

Just because that loss portends more of the same in November and stings like a barbed wire enema, so what?

So damn what?

Common sense, which has not been too damn common lately, prevailed, that's what! LOL

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

JLM, One thing I hope our opponents don't do is misunderstand what I, and I suspect others like me, am feeling after last nights election. I hope they understand that there is no gloating, that this is about all types of voters saying with one voice whoa, take it easy Obama, we want there to be the debate that these big programs deserve before you shove them down our throats. We want you to stop the wasteful spending, we want you to respect the Constitution and apply it's rights to Americans, not the terrorists who want to kill all of us. No more secret back room deals with big Pharma and the SEIU, how about the open debate you promised during the campaign Obama? what about the promise of transparency Obama? The voters are speaking at the ballot box.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

While the Democratic party loss in MA yesterday will have a satisfactory effect of slowing down the left's agenda across the board, a couple of things should be kept in mind before wild celebraation breaks out among moderates and conservatives. We still have a president who had the most liberal voting record in the Senate before he was elected, and that fact and other indicators betray his world view as 'different'. His agenda for change is not a moderate or conservative agenda because it depends on a net loss to those groups to accomplish gains to others. Notwithstanding his lofty and impressive rhetoric, universal health care came to mean higher costs or fewer benefits for people who now have coverage in favor of those who don't, for example.

In foreign policy he doesn't viscerally believe in the unique and necessary status of America in the world. He bowed to a Muslim king and his words promised more even- handedness in the Israeli-Palastinian conflict. The result was- the Palastinians stopped negotiating. The president of Lebanon visited Assad in Syria to make accomodation with the man who engineered his father's death. Obama unilaterally abandoned missile defense in Poland and the Czech Republic to gain good will with the Russians. the result- Poland and the Czechs are questioning our commitment to their democracy and the Russians have done virtually nothing to lean on Iran, who needs their nuclear expertise. Well warmed up, the President continued his bowing in China, virtually acknowledging them as an equal without a word of criticism for their human rights abuses. The Indians took it as a slap in the face, but we made up for that with a State dinner where their Prime MInister met tha Salahis. On the twentieth annivrsary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, an epochal event signalling the victory of the United States in the Cold War, he didn't even go, acknowledge the event or the roles of Margaret Thatcher or President Reagan in tipping over the teetering Soviet Union by implementing a Pershing missile system that was uniformly opposed as provacative and etc., by the left at that time. He found time to go to Copenhagen, and oh yeah, got good results there with the Chinese and Indians. the only place he has shown any spine is in A-stan, but undercut that with an announced cut and run exit strategy. (nods to Charles Krauthammer- who said these things first)

You can't beat somebody with nobody. Moderates and conservatives have to find candidates with a vision for the future that is more than "I'm not Nancy Pelosi." This country is in tough shape, and although the left's solution is illogical and irresponsible, the right has to formulate a policy of its own. To its discredit, it has not.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

Snowbow,

I want to be civil. Let me answer your question by saying that I applied a complex algorithmic analysies if your writings. The temptation to make a joke was strong however, as you lobbed me an almost irresistable softball, so I avoided the comment of Jack Nicholson's character, "First you take a man. Then you remove logic and accountability." Such broad brush comments, even intended as humor, are certain to offend a good percentage of the population. Sorry. I regret using the word, "broad", too.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

Our 44th President was inaugurated one year ago today. Happy anniversary, Mr. President.

The Pres & his cronies have become serial whiners. The message from Obama, Kerry, & Clinton to Mass voters over the weekend boiled down to: Hey – we know you’re pissed. But don’t let your rage over Chimpy McBushHitler delude you into installing a Neanderthal who will obstruct the generational debt you’re begging for!

It’ll be interesting to see if the President will now start tacking towards the center; a la Clinton, or if he sticks to his Socialist guns.

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Steve Lewis 4 years, 9 months ago

The backroom deals suck. Its ludicrous to pretend that's just a Dem flaw. The Senate Health Care bill sucks. Its ludicrous, to pretend the Reps wouldn't cozy up to the same special interests.

Republicans proudly carry a corporate agenda and rely on corporate backing. Democrats carry a half baked social agneda and rely on corporate backing.

And the winner is?

Not us.

..

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

The "center" is not going to be safe territory for anybody any more. That opportunity went up in smoke last night.

If you are Dem Sen James Webb of Virginia and you have just seen the election of your new Republican Governor in a state won handily by Barack Obama a year ago followed up by the Massachusetts Miracle --- this morning you are saying, "I am not prepared to sacrifice my political career for Barack Obama and his governance principles."

Nobody sitting in a McCain won state who is a Democrat is going to do anything to support Barack Obama. They are all dead meat.

Nobody polling poorly along the lines of the Mass Miracle is going to ignore those polls.

Good Republican candidates are going to come out of the woodwork.

The hidden fact that is obscured by the magnitude of Scott Brown's victory is that his campaign finally figured out how to work the Internet as a fundraising mechanism and how to effectively operate the social net (Facebook, Twitter, etc.).

Last nail in the coffin --- if you are a Dem running for office do you want BHO coming into your district to campaign for you? Hmmm, Deeds, Corzine, Coakley --- maybe not?

Barack Obama was elected in a perfect storm and the storm has passed.

There is no safe ground in the middle. Common sense? Well, that might work!

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Lewi, you are just about right. Neither party gives a damn about the people. They actually have contempt for us and the feeling is mutual. What do you do when it's too late to work within the system and still a bit too early to shoot the bastards?

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

The Democrat 'no-mo 60 votes' whine is pretty amusing. The Pres & his party have been reduced to a mere 18 vote Senate majority. Bigger than any GOP Pres has had since the 1920s. The horror! W, his daddy, & Reagan did whatever the eff they wanted absent anything CLOSE to the Congressional and Senate majorities President Obama currently enjoys. His agenda is in the toilet because that's where it belongs. The Brown victory simply ratifies that reality.

Here's Chris "Obama sends a thrill up my leg" Matthews schooling Howard Dean: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697//vp/34962501#34962501 A 10 minute exchange that can be boiled down to: "if you think Brown's victory means Americans are lurching left, you're an idiot."

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

windle, Try reading my second post as it relates to your hissy fit about enjoying ourselves. There is no joy in the devastation that the Obama administration has propelled upon all AMERICANS with his generational theft of the future wealth of recently born and the yet unborn. I for one applaud the many Liberal Democrats who have awoken to the lies and are speaking out by voting against the Obama agenda. I have many Democrat friends who have expressed extreme disappointment with what has been going on as they did not vote for this. As far as your connection to a disaster, there are estimated to be 45,000 Americans who were in Haiti when the disaster occurred, many of whom who were on humanitarian missions and many have lost their lives helping others. To those like yourself who are unaware of such humanitarian efforts that go on around the world on a daily basis I suggest it is not something that was a Government mandate but most often is a product of the charity that so many Americans involve themselves in. Do you suggest that charity comes from one side or the other in larger measures? Why go there? Why politicize such events? And I challenge your story of the Insurance company dropping your whole family because your son broke his leg skiing. The Republicans had tried to put forward legislation for health care regulations while they had power but they were filibustered by the Dems. There are Senate and House records of it. And no, I am not wasting my time for the new minority here searching for those events. You can satisfy your own need to know if you wish in your time. See you in November.

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Chuck McConnell 4 years, 9 months ago

To the socialists bloging herein:

You people never recognize the obvious. The congress is voting today to raise our national debt by $1.7 trillion to about $15 trillion. Our unfunded liabilities amount to $107 trillion. obama and his cohort continue to blindly spend to buy votes with no awareness of the future economic consequences, eg, Nebraska and Louisiana senators and the union back room crime.

Do you lefties not realize what our national debt means?

Remember, the "doctor fix" was taken out of the so-called health care reform legislation and that will increase the national debt by billions. And what about the double counting congress' leadership did on the massive reductions they want for Medicare? Your spenders in congress think we are too stupid to realize what is going on.

And why do you keep bringing up President Bush. He and his congresses were also big spending progressives but were not the thieves we now have. Oh, and by the way, he is not in office now in case you didn't notice. Why not talk about here and now and quit the Bush bashing?

What we need are honest politicians who keep pork out of the budgets, stop the trial lawyer theft (that bought your boy John Edwards and his new baby a 28,500 sq. ft. home) and do not keep lining their own pockets.

Are the "never had a real job" socialists going to pay down the debt? Uhh, I think not.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

windle:

Things are definitely NOT "going to get better" as a result of the Brown win. However, since the Dems had pinned their big-ticket (health care, cap & tax) strategy on their Senate super majority, there's reason to believe that things won't be as abysmal as they could have been. I'm listening to the radio as I post this, and Pelosi has just announced she doesn't have the votes to pass the Senate version of the HCR monstrosity. Even die-hard true believers like Barney Frank & Chuck Schumer have said publicly that it's back to the drawing board for both initiatives.

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Jeff_Kibler 4 years, 9 months ago

I don't understand intelligent people like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich.

They expend all their energy devising ways to further taxes and expand government.

Why can't they apply their great mind power to improving the efficiency of government, for the betterment of the entire society.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

chuckmc:

As a card-carrying, non-denominational skeptic, I will always be reluctant to thank Heaven. The voters of Massachusetts, on the other hand...

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

In the history of the world, what country has taxed themselves into prosperity?

What country has ever enacted new taxes or expanded the role of government during a recession and lived to tell the tale?

Government jobs must be paid for with tax revenue. Private jobs are paid for with private revenue.

Who will provide the tax revenue to create and pay for government jobs when all the private jobs are gone and the Stimulus money runs out?

In the last century no recession has ever been overcome by government spending or the creation of government jobs. Why is this one different?

The creation of private jobs can only be accelerated by allowing the employers to keep enough incremental revenue to actually fund a new job. This can be most effectively done through tax cuts. Even JFK knew this and cut taxes.

You cannot make war against the most productive segment of America --- the segment which actually creates jobs --- and expect them to have the capital, creative energy and inclination to create jobs.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

Well then windle you should be excited about the Scott Brown victory and how it may force Obama to accept a "bill" with tort reform, portability, HSA's and single buyer pools along with provisions for pre-existing conditions all without a Government takeover and Socialization of the entire system. Join us on this initiative and lets have true improvement for those like yourself and the rest who are in need.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

@ JLM

You misunderstander of government economics.

All you have to do is change the terms to Orwellian newspeak!

The middle class and rich must adjust their thinking: Taxes are no longer taxes, they are 'contributions.'

While you're at it: unwed mothers are 'single parents"; illegal aliens are 'undocumented workers'. (Hillary Clinton)

The left has us all living in the future. Everything the government seems to do is for future generations. We have to sacrifice to make their lives better. Well, I'm the future generation that my parents and grandparents sacrificed for. I enjoy the interstate, Eisenhower, highway system, but that was paid for with their dollars. I can;'t think of anything comparable for my offspring to enjoy in the future, unless they are one of the favored groups, like maybe they will run a robot at GM's assembly plant.

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

@ Mr Tai Chi ---

"I can't think of anything comparable for my offspring to enjoy in the future..."

Uhhh, how about POVERTY? LOL

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

Sad but true.

I forgot a liberal favorite newspeak term: Spending is no longer spending. Spending is 'investing.'

Senator Bird has been investing our money in all kinds of public works in West Virginia his whole career. Think I'll pop in the State Capitol there and ask for my interest.

This isn't a new disenchantment with our representative democracy. A turn of the twentieth century writer, Lincoln Stevens, suggested that the only way to control them is to always vote against the incumbent. It's starting to make sense.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

Unfortunately, anti-incumbency leads to the replacement of incumbent bums with new ones. See: the '94 GOP bitch-slap of Clinton & the Dems. They actually did some good things for a brief period, and then the new boss became indistinguishable from the old boss. Power corrupts, yadda yadda. Paraphrasing Winston Churchill: Democracy is the worst form of government ever devised. Except for everything else that's ever been tried.

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

While it is difficult to disagree with what is written by Mr Tai Chi and Sep, I must admit to a silly, naive, childlike optimism that there are really patriots out there.

The vices are so obvious --- who is not offended by bribing an entire State and passing along its fair share to the remaining States or exempting your buddies in the Longshoreman's Union from a tax on their Cadillac health care plan --- that I am hoping that we can find folks who have a normal sense of decorum and fairness.

I am not looking for Mother Theresa but how about the sense of fairness that makes a 4-way stop sign intersection work?

We need to elect patriots and not politicians.

Gotta run --- having lunch with the Easter Bunny and Santa!

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

There are lots of patriots out there. They stand in the shadows. As in George Washingtons day, real patriots make the "normal" folk nervous. Don't look for them to be a big factor in the sespool on the Potomac. The next time most of them vote it will be with their M-16.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

I disavow Sledneck.

Suggestions that our country's problems can only be remedied with violence are totally un-American. We are a country of laws, and must work within those laws to correct the system's faults.

President Washington himself squashed Shay's Rebellion when a group of American farmers thought that the federal government was overreaching to tax their production.

There is no security in guns. The Balkans were filled with weapons before the wholesale death and destruction that followed there. In the face of a ruthless government with air power and heavy weapons who could believe the fantasy that small arms would prevail in any conflict? Ask the Kurds. Ask the Marsh Arabs. Ask the Spanish Republicans. Ask the citizens of Darfur. In a country of laws, which we still are, look to the law for change and for protection of our freedoms. In a world of violence, look to the armed forces.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

What happens when our elected officials fail the people by operating outside of the Constitution? What does "fundamentally changing this Country" mean? Just wondering. I agree with MrTai, but sledneck is echoing the mood of a great number of Americans. I for one am on pins and needles until the November elections and the 2012 Presidential election hoping that we can hold back this so called "change" through the electoral process. One other thought, what does it mean when elected officials swear on the bible? " I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Who comes next when they fail there oaths? Just asking.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

sledneck:

Timothy McVeigh much? You sound no different (well, worse, actually) than the Bush=Hitler crowd.

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trump_suit 4 years, 9 months ago

Are the Obama = Hitler crowd the same people as the Bush = Hitler crowd? If so, we need to do something to control/change that mentality. Regardless of your political beliefs and no matter how strong your Bush/Obama feelings can you truly compare either one of them to the atrocities committed by the Nazi's under Hitler.

For our sake I hope that even the most partisan of us can denounce any comparisons between Hiter and the leaders of our nation.

Sled, you misunderstand. Those are subversives standing in the shadows. Patriots stand in the light and openly declare their agenda to all. They fight for the laws and rights of our nation and involve themselves in their communities Threatening to vote with your M-16 is tantamount to declaring war on your own country. Is that really your agenda? I for one hope not.

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

@ seeuski ---

"One other thought, what does it mean when elected officials swear on the bible?"

Uhhh, absolutely nothing?

"Who comes next when they fail their oaths?"

Uhhh, they get out the telepromter and give a speech, turn populist to distract us?

Sorry.

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Steve Lewis 4 years, 9 months ago

So much frustration. Please don't shoot anyone.

I've become convinced the trenches well established above are stupid. Dem vs. Rep vitriol is stupid. It's scale and volume emasculates, by division and distraction, any possibility of "government by the people".

Democrats in power give little to Democrats. That fact is just more exposed and we're angrier earlier (Health Care reform).

Republicans in power give little to Republicans. That fact is just more hidden and we're angrier later. (Bush's deficit.)

But look at who always comes out ahead - big industry. Either set of "officials", Re or Dem, give boatloads of benefits and/or taxdollars to whichever industries can keep them Senators for life.

If you take your talking points from Limbaugh or Olberman, you're part of the problem. In my opinion you accomplish only a permanence of your frustration.

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

Anybody remember the American Civil War? Or the War of Northern Aggression?

That is what happens when passions overwhelm common sense. Today that would have been a huge class action lawsuit. [Perhaps the only good thing that has happened due to lawyers in the history of the US?] Hell, they'd still be waiting for a trial date today but we would not have had 500,000 killed and 2,000,000 wounded.

The American Civil War set the country back by 125 years, destroyed much of the South through Reconstruction, unleashed an unresolved virulent racism which persists and set off unhealthy regional disparities which continue to this day.

Having seen a war up close and personal, war is not the answer.

What is significant is the temperment of the country. We are fighting mad --- of course, so is President Obama (well as of just recently anyway, since he realized making fun of Downtown Scottie Brown's truck didn't work so well).

He is going to fight and fight and fight and fight and fight and fight for us. All of us. Unfortunately, I feel like he is fighting AGAINST me. But that could just be me. I really don't need a skinny guy from Chicago doing my fighting.

It is difficult to imagine how much our country has deteriorated in only the first year of the Obama presidency. Not saying it is his fault alone but the criticisms of his inexperience and liberal ways sure seem to be on point.

Count me as mad as hell but willing to do my fighting at the ballot box. I can't wait until November. Of course, the Democrats have the Presidency and that worked real, real well in Virginia, NJ and Massachusetts, right? LOL

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

I am going to hold my nose and watch the poser in chiefs focus group talking points tomorrow night with great boredom. I will also remove any object from reach that could damage my TV set. I do look forward to newly elected Governor Bob McDonnell's response to the blather. We already know that Obama is tossing out a bone for the dumb, a so called freeze on spending, which will do nothing to the increased spending that has the Obama deficit at 1.5 or so $trillion$. And by the way, anyone know who Ellie Light is?

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

classic right wingnuttery! No, we are not pissed off, you tea partiers are. Put a freeze on spending in an effort to reduce the deficit-what a dumb president-right Seeuski, JLM, Tea Partiers? Spend too much, bad president....spending freeze, bad president.

Hey, your new favorite Senator from Mass. voted 'for' their socialized health care in Mass. What a degenerate! Why wasn't the Fixed News Political Machine all over that? How long before he's in the special interests back pockets? I'll bet he already is.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for the laughs jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbo, You sound just like the rest of the Progressives who see their dreams of control coming to a screeching halt by the movement you continue to insult with your name calling. You have to ask yourself why 22% of Dems in Mass voted away with the Obama agenda. Why are so many Dems dropping out of the upcoming races? Ritter et al. Could it be because of the failure of Obama to do what is right for the American people and not his progressive agenda? Or do they know they are dead meat and don't want to "fundamentally change" this Country to a Venezuela style regime? Hmmmm. Don't know but I am greatful. Although I think Ritter has other issues that are of a legal nature.

And as far as the health care in Mass, do you really want to look at how it is working? There in may lay the answer to some of the disgruntlement of the voters up there.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

And are you keeping up with the daily flow of info on the climate change fraud which Obama is so invested in? Yes, I thank Scott Brown for getting elected as he may just have saved our future from the raping of our wealth and the redistribution of it to the rest of the world through this scam. Call me a right wing nut if you want but I don't want to see this Country forced into 3rd world status while our money is used for oil exploration by countries who don't care about the climate or the natural resources we so cherish. Enjoy your quiche.

http://climatechangefraud.com/

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Good stuff Seeuski-it's amazing how the climate change debate has gotten so political. If there's a chance you'll be taxed somehow, someway due to climate change, well then it's part of the Democrats agenda. I'll leave climate change to the scientists, who overwhelmingly agree that the sharp warming trends are caused by humans. Again, I'll leave it to the scientists, not Seeuski and his right wing media machine that's promoting it as a fraud.

As far as Mass. goes, don't you think a large part of the problem is the recession? Lost tax revenue ring a bell? And no, that didn't have squat to do with the election. But I hope he saves you from the raping you referred to.

Enjoy the speech.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

The debate is over, Obama's hot air is the cause of your dreams for climate change.

"contributed by John O’Sullivan

What the Climategate scandal is uncovering is a growing litany of evidence to prove cynical cherry picking of the climate data by certain biased key climatologists to artificially make the planet appear warmer than it is."

http://www.climategate.com/climatologists-drop-806-cold-weather-stations-in-a-single-year

I guess you will continue to agree with scientists who purposely falsify or hide data to control the message. Now that is truly scientific.

I will watch the speech tomorrow as part of my diet, it will make me heave my dinner.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

Oh and jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Lost tax revenue is a historical fact every time the Dems take charge and raise taxes. It always happens but they keep doing it over and over with the same results and that is why so many believe that Liberalism is an insanity disease.

WHAT???? Newsmax/Zogby Poll: Scott Brown Could Defeat Obama in Presidential Race.

http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2600775%3ABlogPost%3A1972645&commentId=2600775%3AComment%3A1972959&xg_source=activity

Enjoy your latte.

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Oh, yeah, right, and the last 8 years were so successful. You got me there.

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trump_suit 4 years, 9 months ago

I just love the way that the Tea Party has portreyed Obama as a racist and a communist. They accuse him of violating the Constitution and violating our civil liberties with his policies.

Those same individuals turned a blind eye, and/or actively supported the violations of the Bush administration when they engaged in illegal wiretapping, email tracking, and the digital recording of your conversations. Lets not forget torture and human rights violations in our overseas prisons. We should be outraged by these autracities

It seems to me that the first violation of a police state is the control of information and communications. That is almost always the choice of dictators and facist governments. (See Hugo Chavez and his recent closing of News agencies.)

Violations of our rights should ALWAYS be challenged. Whether you are conservative or liberal, we all hold dear ALL of the rights granted to us as citizens of the United States. Watch and learn as the abuses of the Bush administration become clear in the coming years. The Conservative right wants to control your ability to make decisions as an individual and hand that right to the corporation.

PS. Did you see the latest NASA study on global warming? Is NASA in the hands of your climate gate also? Something is clearly happening on a global scale. Are human activities the cause? That is the the real question.

Catch the Oregon election last night?

Freeze the budget? Absolutely, and we need to take a chainsaw to many gov't offices while at the same time increasing consumer protections and re-regulating the financial sector.

Healthcare reform is urgently needed by small business owners, self employed individuals, and anyone not covered by an employee group plan. Those costs are every bit as out of control and the federal deficeit and change is needed. I am not a fan of a big gov't health agency here, but the private sector needs a new set of rules.

There are two sides to every story, and the 2010 elections are a long ways away. I think it might be a little premature to crow about Republican victory just yet.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

trump_suit:

You shouldn’t presume to speak for those you disagree with. You write that we’ve “portreyed [sic] Obama as racist and a communist. They accuse him of violating the Constitution and violating our civil liberties with his policies.” As a tea partier, I’ve done none of the above, and don’t know anyone who has. The Tea Party movement is all about the fiscal conservatism abandoned by W’s GOP and sh%t on by Obama and the American left. An absolutely unprecedented and multi-generational national debt (set to double as a percentage of the economy); putting Big Brother in control of health care (not gonna happen, thanks arguably to us); calling bs on the so-called stimulus which jacked up the baseline on a boatload of domestic spending to pay off the unions that spent $100 million electing Democrats in 2008; the bribes to Nelson & Landrieu & govt union bosses... agree with us or not, but those are substantive issues. Those who deride us as hicks & knuckle draggers aren’t paying attention. Although, in the wake of Virginia, Jersey, & Massachusetts, that may be starting to change.

You write “Those same individuals turned a blind eye, and/or actively supported the violations of the Bush administration when they engaged in illegal wiretapping, email tracking, and the digital recording of your conversations.” You seem a little confused. There’s no “and/or” about it. We actively supported those initiatives. So does the Obama administration. And while waterboarding may be off the table, rendition is alive and well. Are you “outraged” by Obama sending prisoners to be tortured – not waterboarded; TORTURED - abroad? If not, why not?

You write: “I think it might be a little premature to crow about Republican victory just yet.” Yep. If anyone can screw the pooch, it’s career political hacks.

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housepoor 4 years, 9 months ago

The most disappointing thing in this debate(if you can call it that) is that neither side makes any attempt to offer any real solutions. Your primary position or argument is to discredit or marginalize the others point of view. Without a healthy respect for each other’s opinions the conversation goes nowhere nothing gets done and the nation just gets further and further divided.

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Steve Lewis 4 years, 9 months ago

The post election poll (NBC/Wall St Journal) last night on NBC says the Mass voters were angry at govt, and how ineffective it is. There was little to support they were angry at Dems, any more than Reps. Obama was still well supported.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/

93% in that poll believe there is too much partisan fighting. I wish a poll would ask if big industry has too much influence. That would tell me how smart we Americans really are.

The bickering does stop things in DC., and that essentially preserves the status quo. The hot-button slogans serve another political purpose - ignorance - no one bothers to look underneath the surface of a feel-good line.

Underneath the bickering is an ethical cancer spawned by billions in campaign contributions and a politician's lust to stay seated forever. Making the best vote for this country, for a majority of politicians, is not a real priority.

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Steve Lewis 4 years, 9 months ago

I agree with both Sep and Housepoor, There is no introspection shown here..

I question a Dem who is only angry at Republicans. Our anger is poorly aimed if we think all the problems come from across the aisle. How smart is it to ignore our own forgotten campaign pledges. Where is that introspection?

I also question Reps who assail the stimulus as bogus without offering a solid alternative. If the Tea Party wants both jobs and no stimulus, I presume a tax cut is that plan. If so what do economists say about tax cuts - I haven't seen anything to support tax cuts as a viable path. Where is that introspection?

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trump_suit 4 years, 9 months ago

One great big difference Sep. The Obama administration did in fact continue many of those surveillance programs. The difffernce is that they were immediately placed back under the FISA courts as required by law.

While I happen to agree with many of your fiscal/budgetary policies, until the Tea Party recognizes the abuses of our constitutional protecttions against wiretapping they will not receive my support. That entire attitude from the conservative right about: It was justified does not sit well with me. Laws are laws and rights are rights. Frankly, I cannot see much difference between the two parties in terms of fiscal responsibility. The only real separation is where/how they want to spend more money.

Why did the CIA erase ALL of the interrogation tapes from that timeframe?

Do you think is was justified for the FBI to engage in large scale wiretapping of US and Foreign phone calls without obtaining the warrants required.

Do you think it was OK for the FBI to "accidentally" capture all email traffic for several months instead of just the group of messages covered by the warrant. Ooops, so sorry we read them all.

Do you think it was OK for the FBI to engage in random searching of communications databases listening in on their friends/neighbors and individuals like Bill Clinton, Paris Hilton or Bill Gates?

All of these abuses have been documented and the true scope of the illegal programs has yet to be fully revealed.

I can see where waterboarding might skirt the actual definition of torture. How can you possibly justify the images that came of of some of those prisons... Images showing electrodes attached to genitals are pretty descriptive of torture in my opinion. Torture is what it was and the Goverment approved that treatment from the top down. A few soldiers have taken the fall for now, but in our military, these things did not happen without higher level approval and knowledge.

While I agree that our local Tea party activists have been mostly on-point, the oragnization at large has indeed made the statements that I credit to them.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

trump_suit writes: “The Obama administration did in fact continue many of those surveillance programs. The difffernce [sic] is that they were immediately placed back under the FISA courts as required by law.”

Smoke & mirrors & utterly meaningless. The administration has pulled out the stops to dismiss Jewel v. NSA ( http://www.eff.org/files/filenode/jewel/jewelmtdobama.pdf ) , arguing (exactly as W did) that restricting the NSA’s surveillance will “cause exceptionally grave harm to national security.” The President has also gone one step further; asserting that the govt can NEVER be taken to court over surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes. Even the vile ChimpyRoveMcBush cabal never had the sand to try that one.

You write: “While I agree that our local Tea party activists have been mostly on-point, the oragnization at large has indeed made the statements that I credit to them.”

Yawn. I love dogs. So did Hitler. I am, therefore, an evil, genocidal fascist. Any large-scale cause/party/polity will always include fringe elements. Spotlighting the fringe as central to the core is pretty lame. JLM & seeuski deploy the same tactic here from my side of the aisle, so it’s not an exclusively liberal tactic. It’s just a juvenile one.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

I love when people toot their own horn as if they are the poster child for gentlemanly conversation. That's the great thing about the Tea Party movement, it's all inclusive, even us less than perfect humans can play. As far as trump, I am all for waterboarding, I am all for wiretapping and I am all for the CIA keeping their secrets on how they gain information which protects us from the Jihadists. I am also all for keeping the "Gitmo 100" and their brethren who are being tried in the States down in the comfortable confines of their plush tropical retreat, which happens to be a lot better than probably all of our prisons here. Let them stand trial in front of a Military Tribunal and for heavens sake, STOP reading them our Miranda rights. And to those who continually claim that we Tea Partiers have no solutions, pound sand, we have made our stance and positions perfectly clear over the months. And for the AGW scandals it is all inclusive of NASA as they have used the same data that has been proven to be tainted and flawed. We can do a lot better in the USA at oil extraction while continuing to work towards the alternative energy sources than any third world country and that would add several million jobs alone. So when Obama sends our tax money in the billions to Brazil for their offshore drilling why are those of you who believe the AGW theory so quiet? Finally, you do not SPEND your way out of a recession especially when the spending is payoffs and pork. You cut taxes which is a direct and immediate stimulus to the street. It's been done as has the spending, which of the two worked in the past?

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr Tai Chi, George Washington led a revolution against his country (England). He SHOT his own governments forces and ordered others to do the same. England was a country of laws when America revolted. And, by the way, the tax that caused Americans to kill government forces and revolt was a fraction of our tax burden today. Working within those laws was getting us about as far as working within them is getting us today. He solved his new countrys' problems with violence. Thank God our founders had the balls to do what you apparently NEVER would. Or, is there ANY situation in which you would approve of armed revolution?

All those insurrections and wars you mentioned don't come close to what chairman Mao and Stalin did to their people who were ostensibly UN-armed. I agree that power does not always come from the end of a gun. I did not say this is the RIGHT course nor did I advocate such action. I merely pointed out that this is THE course of action we are headed toward if the laws you hold in such high esteem continue to yield the same abysmal results. Does anyone REALLY think they can improve this nation with another law? Seriously?

Sep, Yes, I'm worse than the bla bla hitler crowd. I expressed an opinion contrary to yours. I'm worse than Janet I never heard of Posse Comitatus Reno too. I love dogs and I am Hitler. Yep, thats me. P.S. I would welcome a discussion on the finer points of who is worse, a murdering Timothy Mcveigh or a murdering Janet Reno.

Disavow whomever you wish. Call people all the names you want. Believe our government, right or left, is the answer if you wish.

I think many Americans tell themselves such nonsense because they cannot stomach the notion that our nation is off the ledge and headed for the pavement. Others are so afraid of being called Timothy Mcveigh or Hitler that they would sit still while evil men destroy our nation

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

sledneck:

You're the only participant in this thread to imply that violence & carnage should be a component of American political dialogue. I'm about as right-wing as it gets, and I think I'd be more comfortable with trump_suit around my kids than you.

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

The suggestion that the Stimulus has provided any meaningful increase of employment in America is nonsense. The unemployment statistics alone indict this silliness. Remember that the Stimulus was sold on the proposition that its approval would ensure that unemployment would not exceed 8%. That obviously did not happen.

By its proponents very admission, only about a third of the total planned Stimulus funding has been expended and because of its focus on "shovel ready" jobs the Stimulus funding was expended on projects which by their very "shovel ready" status would have occurred even absent the Stimulus funding.

A better approach to stimulating the economy would have been to provide a reduction in payroll taxes for workers and employers. Funds that would have been injected --- mainlined --- into the economy in less than 2 weeks and which would have arguably immediately been translated into the purchase of goods and services thereby directly stimulating the level of employment and the vigor of the retail economy. A huge missed opportunity.

Worse still is that even the jobs that were arguably created by the Stimulus are primarily government sector jobs. This creates a huge problem inasmuch these government jobs are not sustainable. The second the Stimulus funds are exhausted these jobs will disappear as compared to private sector jobs which would continue after their creation.

You cannot create jobs by simply allocating funds. You have to actually spend them. The failure to expend the Stimulus funds is an obvious indictment of the effectiveness of this program.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

...neck

I've read two biographies of George Washington. I encourage you to go to the library and take one out and read it. In my opinion he was the greatest American, all things considered. He surveyed much of the wilds of Virginia at that time with survey crews that he employed, at age 16. In his twenties, he was asked by the Governor of Virginia to travel in the dead of winter through trackless wilderness to what is now Pittsburgh to tell the French garrison there to leave as it was claimed British territory. He did that with a woodsman who nearly died when the raft they built to cross an ice choked river capsized and Washington drew on his incredible strength to save him and swim to an island. First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen. Even the founding fathers were awed by him. His sense of duty and commitment to American values was second to none, in fact without his unshakable beliefs in the freedoms we hold dear, the Rebellion would have collapsed.

Your half baked ideas about this country don't belong in the same paragraph with Washington's name. He would probably be pretty quick to note that your complaint about the ineffectiveness of the law overlooks the fact that American law, in the form of the Bill of Rights allows you to make a fool of yourself in public without government retribution.

Jefferson believed in the marketplace of ideas and allowing unpopular speech. He had faith that the American people would be wise enough to identify and repudiate foolish, wrong-headed and ignorant ideas. It was a variant on the concept, "How can you know light until you have seen darkness."

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Great speech, huh fellas. Then there was the Republican response-did he plagiarize O's speech, then just add the typical Republican rhetoric or what? Amazing.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbo, I wouldn't expose myself if I were you and show your continuing submissiveness to the big O by praising that speech. He has made several hundred of them since the inauguration, more than any previous POTUS, and we are still on this sinking ship with the cargo that he stubbornly won't throw overboard to save us from going under. He has proven that he will say what YOU and the focus groups want to hear just as he did during the 2008 campaigns in order to continue his agenda down the dark road. The good thing here is we now have a track record to prove his policies wrong and we will be able to continue to measure that failure right up to November 2010 and the moveon,org hiring of activists to combat it won't help. http://townhall.com/blog/g/0c68ec45-9b5c-4f0f-b42c-2b0dd8ea8144

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

you and Hannity are just pissed he wasn't staring at a teleprompter.

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

And you provided a link from Fox.....oh boy, well done.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

"you and Hannity are just pissed he wasn't staring at a teleprompter"

You are the only poor soul in America who doesn't know that there were 2 teleprompters, 1 on his left and 1 on his right, so it looks as though he is looking back and forth and presenting to the whole audience. I guess he was not using a teleprompter when he spoke to a 6th grade class the other day either.

AGW hoax sources other than FOX. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2010/01/28/Agency-Climategate-scientists-hid-data/UPI-16001264695241/ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7004936.ece

Sorry to have offended you jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbo with the fair and balanced FOX news. I know you only watch your beloved but bros Olberdog and "chill up my thigh, I didn't know he was black for an hour" Matthews. To each his own oh well.

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr Tai Chi, I grew up in Virginia and spent many days in Washington Nat. Forest and Jefferson Nat. Forest. I was taught at a very young age, as I walked in their very footsteps, the significance and exceptionalism of those men and the actions they took. NONE of which is lost on me. My home was within sight of Jeffersons summer home @ Poplar Forest. I have studied all the founding fathers and I totally agree with you that Washington was an exceptional man. I too would say he stood above the rest. So you don't need to preach to me of Washingtons virtue.

Not far from my home was the town of Appomattox, the place where Lee surrendered to Grant. I have been there many times. I have studied the Civil War and am familiar with its multiple causes and consequences.

Calling me a fool and my ideas half baked is, as you accurately stated, a right you enjoy thanks to Washingtons willingness to take up arms. Insults do not bother me in the least nor do they change the facts. There are times when revolution and violence are necessary. Your hero and mine, Washington, knew that.

Furthermore, I will repeat, I did not advocate any action. I merely made a forecast based on the direction of the wind. Damning the weather man won't part the clouds.

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Sep, No. I did not imply that violence and carnage should be a part of political dialogue.

I simply stated that violence and carnage are what follows years of fruitless political dialogue. Violence and carnage fill the vacuum when nothing else works. Take a look around. Is political dialogue gettin it done?

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

sledneck:

Sorry. Doesn't pass the stink test. You bring an M16 into the thread in order to... put a daisy in the barrel! Yeah! That's the ticket!

You need to back off the Dolph Lundgren movies.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

...neck

I acknowledge your rational and civil argument.

I sometimes wonder how the founding fathers would have divided up on the outbreak of the Civil War. Tribal loyaties and passion often trump reason in such circumstances. Washington, Jefferson and Madison probably first thought of themselves as Virginians, as did General R.E .Lee who felt duty bound to follow his heart there, although there is evidence that he was initially seriously conflicted. Sam Houston was a true patriot and opposed secession of Texas even after the outbreak of the war and the emotional investment of his associates and fellow citizens in the rebellion. I think that a young Washington would have been foursquare with Virginia, but the 62 year old Washington would have been a patriot, for at that time he had become a Federalist and felt in his gut that America had to be united as one country. It is difficult to discount the non-verbal conditioning of belief that his experience in commanding the American forces caused in him. He really saw us as one nation when troops from New York and Virginia fought side by side for the same cause. It is the feeling you get when you're at West Point, probably others, when they visit the Mall in Washington.

Where you're wrong, as Timothy McVeigh and Angela Davis were wrong is that Washington fought because we had no representative democracy, and that insulted his idea of the rights of Englishmen. Once we got one, and a mechanism was agreed between the states to unite and form a government, there was no moral or lawful justification for further rebellion if a citizen's views or philosophy were frustrated. If you think we can't change policy through our present system, ask Tom Daschle, ask the Kennedys in Massachusetts what happened to "Teddie's seat."

Jefferson, who had a reckless element in his personality, did say that the tree of liberty needs refreshing from time to time with the blood of tyrants, and he was sympthetic to the Directory of the French Revolution as heads were rolling there, but in later life, when the mantle of the Presidency had settled on his shoulders and even later when he had time to reflect, he believed in the peaceful resolution of our domestic disputes through the law, and never uttered words like those above that can be ascribed to youth and lack of wisdom as a moderating influence he had yet to acquire.

You would be well advised to give more thought before uttering your words. Time will make you ashamed of them. If we all are our own Supreme Court and Congress, as Tim McVeigh thought he was, we have nothing but a bleak future.

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 9 months ago

To whomever,

One more note about the world stature of Washington:

His greatest praise came out of the mouth of the greatest tyrant of his age.

Napoleon, grousing in confinement at St. Helena island said, "They wanted me to be Washington."

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

Interesting essay from a registered independent: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/01/24/why_i_regret_voting_for_president_obama_99879.html

An excerpt:

"But McCain made it [voting Obama] easy. He's a smart man, I don't doubt that. But between picking Palin, suggesting that the first debates be delayed and, well, picking Palin, he made it easy for Obama to win. As Election Day drew near, all Obama had to do was keep his mouth shut to win.

All that changed when the Obama campaign became the Obama administration. I was a small business owner during 2008 election and my business ultimately failed under the weight of a horrendous economy. I am not ashamed. I worked hard. But I believed that Obama would try to level the playing field between big business and small, between thieves and honest business people, between greed and moderation. Instead, he bailed out the most wicked and left the rest of us fail.

I watched with horror as Obama followed Bush's lead in bailing out banks, auto makers, insurance companies, all of those companies deemed "too big to fail." What does that mean? My small company got thrown under the bus and my savings were ravaged - perhaps Wall Street is using them for bonuses this year."

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

Another memorable phrase, from Thomas Jefferson, re: the issue of slavery at the 2nd Continental Congress [paraphrasing from memory]:

"We were holding a wolf by the ears. We didn't like it, but didn't dare let it go. Justice on one scale, self preservation on the other."

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

Interesting read, I love how this woman explains her vulnerability in falling for the "charisma" of a "community organizer" but has so much foresight in determining that Palin, who had the highest ratings of any Governor and a track record of standing up against the machine and big oil for the people, was such a threat to this Country if McCain died after taking office. That type of moronic reasoning was so frustrating as I know plenty of people locally who made those same statements during the campaign. You have to wonder about people who would be so critical of Palin when the other VP candidate is a proven knucklehead who was intimately involved with the credit card banks and we don't even know what remains inside his cranium after his two egghead operations. Yea, I respect that ladies reasoning. None. She voted for her own demise and the evidence was there all along.

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr Tai Chi, I agree that it is encouraging to see what happened to "Mr. Kennedys" seat. And it's not because right defeated left. To me what was encouraging is that a spirit of defiance defeated the status quo. I consider this an important part of what Jefferson meant when he said "a little revolution... is a good thing". Not all revolutions come with violence, but with or without they eventually come. We have a representative democracy, to be sure. But the extent to which it can remain effective is, in my opinion, questionable.

I heard a recently elected politician say he wished to give the American people the "government they deserve". After pondering that statement my thought was that the American people DO have the government they deserve. The American people ARE the government. They are lazy. They seek to use government to plunder the property of their fellow men so they may avoid toil. They are ignorant. They know nothing of the Constitution or how their republic was designed. They are unpossesed of even an elementary understanding of economics. They are not frugal. Most importantly, they do not esteem freedom above security.

Every abhorant characteristic in our society is bleeding through into our government. The part about being a "nation of laws rather than a nation of men" is rapidly falling by the wayside. In fact, I doubt a majority could even explain what that quote is supposed to mean! This is the origin of my concern. As this condition worsens the representative democracys effectiveness fails and the distinctions between Washingtons excuse for revolution and mine evaporate. I hope with all my heart that day never comes but my minds eye sees the clouds on the horizon.

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sledneck 4 years, 9 months ago

Sep, I never heard of Dolph Lundgren. As long as we are so sure of each others afflictions I think you might suffer from hoplophobia. You accuse me of "bringing an M-16 into a thread" as if I produced one in Sunday School. HOPLOPHOBE.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

sledneck:

I've never heard of "HOPLOPHOBE", and can't be bothered to google it. If esoteric name-calling makes your putter flutter, more power to you.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

Here is what goes on unreported by the MSM in this country under an administration that warned us through the Homeland Security office to watch out for anger from the right.

"Kill Jews": Incitement to Genocide in Brooklyn" http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/01/kill-jews-incitement-to-genocide-in-brooklyn.html

I guess we should not jump to conclusions just wait for the next Ft. Hood style attack.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 9 months ago

Best I can tell, "hoplo" is a variety of catfish. So....someone here has actually admitted to having a phobia of a variety of catfish?

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

If your definition is accurate, it seems that sledneck is asserting that I'm afraid of catfish, LOL. Non sequitur much, sledneck?

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 9 months ago

Traumatic childhood fishing experience Sep? I, too, have had some monsters on the line.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

More HopeyChange: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/us/politics/27budget.html

CBO director Douglas Elmendorf (a Democrat appointee) testified this week that his office projects economic growth will remain well below average, and that unemployment should remain around 10% thru 2011.

"It is true that as we push [public debt levels] in this country to 60 percent of GDP at the end of this year and beyond that over the next few years, we're moving into [debt] territory that most developed countries stay out of."

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Here is what goes on unreported by ClusterFox.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/29/fox-obama-retreat/

Good opportunity to let their viewers hear from the source, but no, he was doing to well. Better cut away, and bring on the critics before he's even done.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

It's time to realize your losing your grip jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbo

And FOX is not reporting the rising Muslim antisemitism either.

That is why I posted an online site. Duh.

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

I lost my grip a long time ago Seeuski-but I still want you to see how your favorite news source is not practicing any sort of integrity. Just bash away until there's a Republican in office. I mean really-why not wait until the damn thing finished, then bash. You know why, oh yeah you do. We all know why-because Obama was doing a real good job answering all the questions (all without a teleprompter), and ClusterFox decided they didn't want their viewers to hear. Some Republicans even said after it was a bad idea to televise this-I wonder why?

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

Funny how your hero puts out his new budget today after the brow beating he gave the Repubs and it is a massive increase over the last one. It MUST be FOX news's fault because they stopped the charade just before the end. Dang FOX. Never fear jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmbo you still have all the other networks, who by the way, came in last to FOX news's favorability and trustworthiness ratings in recent polls. I guess their huge ratings are proof. So you'll just have to hope that Obama goes forward and has his FCC Diversity Czar, Frank Lloyd, shut them down Hugo Chavez style. Then he can completely control your mind.

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Trustworthiness ratings........HA! That's just good comedy.

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Seeuski-Your always comparing Obama to Chavez-why is that. Is it because it is one of the more threatening attacks seen on the most 'trustworthy' news outlet in America?

Chavez first attempted to come to power through a military coup.

Shortly after his election, Chavez called for a constitutional convention that rewrote the Venezuelan Constitution.

He has called for an end to presidential term limits.

He has shut down opposition press outlets.

Pardon my ignorance, but other than the 'socialized' health care plan that is basically Mitt Romney's plan, how are they at all similar.

Makes for good right wing talking points though.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

So to counterbalance the bloodthirsty baby-eating hatemongers at Fox, you link to a Matthew Yglesias site? There's a renowned bastion of non-biased objectivity.

Ye gods.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

You need to source other avenues for information jimmmmmmmmmmmmbo so you are not overly surprised at what this White House, with it's many Mao loving Czars, is up to. But you are on the right track.

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trump_suit 4 years, 9 months ago

"You need to source other avenues for information jimmmmmmmmmmmmbo so you are not overly surprised at what this White House, with it's many Mao loving Czars, is up to."

This comment exemplifies the problems in goverment today. Neither the Republicans or the Democrats will discuss a centrist position and the rhetoric defies any attempt to reach a real solution.

Without some sort of compromise by both sides our government has it's hands tied by the elected officials that are supposed to be working out solutions. Each party is so entrenched in it's "vision" that our leaders are like blind MMA wrestlers trying to dance ballet. Ugly at best and the partisan talking points are not helping.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

I agree trump, dump the Czars and work together. Open the back room doors, go on c-span like promised, be fiscal like promised, take GM and Chrysler from the UAW and give em back to the Bond holders who were ripped off (Unconstitutional) and don't shut down 1500 privately owned Dealers in order to spread the wealth to some allied newcomers(Unconstitutional). Pay down the deficit with the 1/2 $trillion$ dollars of stimulus money that was not spent. Trim the new 3.4 $trillion$ 2010 budget, stop the Cap and Tax scam and let us breath life back into the economy from the street level and not from a huge growth in Government. Stop lying about jobs created or saved in zip codes that don't exist, or counting existing jobs as saved because a Company or school received some stimulus money. But don't expect the Conservative majority of Americans to ignore what is being done and to go quietly into the night.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

"Greenspan, who until recently was insisting that the best use of the projected surpluses was to pay off the national debt, said Thursday that the surplus estimates have gotten so large that he now believes there will be enough money to pay off the debt and cut taxes too.

In testimony before the Senate Budget Committee, Greenspan said that if the surplus projections come true — $5 trillion over the next 10 years — the government will be able to eliminate the $3.4 trillion in debt held by the public and have enough left over to reduce taxes." "Prior to Thursday, Greenspan said don't count your surplus chickens until the eggs are hatched. But now … Dr. Greenspan suddenly is a believer in budget projections," said Paul Kasriel, chief economist at Northern Trust Co. in Chicago. " "He was very open about his views about how dramatically the economy has slowed," said David Jones, chief economist at Aubrey G. Lanston & Co. in New York.

The surplus was based on 10 year estimates? I stand behind my assessment of what transpired after this story which destroyed those projections namely 9/11. Neither one of us will be the winner in this argument but why even bother? It's what THIS White House is doing NOW which is important going forward. Isn't it time to stop blaming Bush and hold Obama accountable for HIS agenda? Listen to trump.

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trump_suit 4 years, 9 months ago

trump understands that Clinton left an annual surplus. Bush left office with a 1.2 TRILLION DOLLAR annual deficeit. Pretty basic math see.

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seeuski 4 years, 9 months ago

700 Billion of that was the TARP package of which 500 Billion has been paid back. So you are therefore fine with the Obama Social Justice/reparations spending habits that have pushed the deficit to 1.6 Trillion and has the promise of a less than 8% unemployment rate at 10-20% and rising, is that it? Oh, and the debt level, which was just last week raised by 1.9 Trillion, will be reached this month. Are you on board with that, lets add the full Health Care system and Cap and Tax to it, you good for that? Where do you think this story ends up? What happens when we lose our credit rating and Foreign Countries like China, who are financing this mess, decide to flex their muscles? We will have no standing or power to protect ours, or anyone else's, freedoms. These are dangerous waters.

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jimmmmmm 4 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, your right Seeuski. This is all Obama's problem, and the previous admin. had nothing to do with it-at least the Republicans didn't. Obama started all this, and we were well on the way to prosperity before the election. He should've fixed this mess by now-I mean really, he's had 12 months! We'd be thriving right now if a Republican was in office. Let's do the obvious and just cut taxes for the rich, then everything will just trickle down, and the economy will thrive. We don't need regulation, we don't need health care reform, we don't need to change direction with energy, we don't need to create jobs with taxpayer $.

That's the ticket. Good thinking.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 9 months ago

Countdown begins for end of Keith Olbermann's 'Countdown'? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/02/keith-olbermann-msnbc-glenn-beck-bill-oreilly-fox-news.html

"In the most desirable TV demographic of 25-54, which Keith will soon outgrow himself, "Countdown" lost 44% of its audience from the beginning of President Obama's term until this year."

I doubt MSNBC will pull the plug. Talking head shows are relatively cheap to produce. Absent a sudden exodus of advertisers & revenue, the network will stick to its ideological guns.

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JLM 4 years, 9 months ago

The problem with talking about budget deficits and/or surpluses (a much shorter conversation) is that most folks are talking about the "operating" budget which ends at the "gross profit" line rather than the entire income statement which ends at the "net operating income" or "earnings" line.

The big difference is the cost of intergovernmental transfers (SS IOUs as an example) and the reconciliation of intragovernmental transfers (governmental entities which do business with each other) --- you accounting types know what that means.

The big leveler is to simply look at the Beginning of Year (B-O-Y) national debt and the End of Year (E-O-Y) national debt numbers and one will quickly see the fiction of any Clinton surpluses.

If you can show me any year in which the national debt went DOWN during the Clinton years, then this Bud's for you!

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JLM 4 years, 8 months ago

TV is just business and ultimately business principles will determine the outcomes.

While MSNBC is stagnating --- or perhaps contracting would be more accurate --- other networks are adding personalities, freshening up the mix and exerting energy to attract viewers. Sure MSNBC added the Ed Show but that pales against the continuing visual assault of Fox blondes, Karl Rove, Sarah Palin, et al.

Even if you don't like Fox, you have to give them credit for working their mojo.

The Keith Olbermann's of the world will have their reality check when the networks renegotiate their contracts. Take a look at the haircut that Katie Couric is taking. She is getting a 75% cut in pay and she has no options.

When KO's contract comes up, he will be taking a pretty big haircut and he will be getting his own coffee soon thereafter.

Take a look at what happened with Dan Rather --- he made himself irrelevant, undertook desperate tactics to "make" news and he got canned. Pathetic old dude? Or just a hack? You choose.

The marketplace is not stupid and you may want to overlay everything with a bit of political idealogy but America ultimately gravitates to folks they trust to tell them the truth.

Butch, KO, Leg Tingle and Mr Ed are a weak and squirrely lineup.

But, who knows --- millions of viewers could ALL be wrong? Right?

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seeuski 4 years, 8 months ago

The POTUS doesn't know what a corpse is?

The media bashed Bush for his pronunciation of nuclear, lets see how much we see of this. Maybe there is 57 states.

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