Willard White displays the Gadsden flag during a Moffat County tea party tax day protest Thursday in front of the Moffat County Courthouse. Supporters came from as far as Meeker to attend the event.

Photo by Shawn McHugh

Willard White displays the Gadsden flag during a Moffat County tea party tax day protest Thursday in front of the Moffat County Courthouse. Supporters came from as far as Meeker to attend the event.

Tea party supporters gather to 'take America back'

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The usually neat lawn outside the Moffat County Courthouse was trampled with the feet of about 200 residents Thursday during the Moffat County tea party tax day protest.

Protestors waved signs reading “Born free but taxed to death,” “Keep your Koolaid, I drink tea,” and “You can’t fix stupid, but you can vote them out.”

Standing on a curb, some protesters waved and encouraged passing cars on Victory Way to honk in support.

During speeches from tea party organizers, the phrases “reduced spending,” “fight for our freedoms” and “uphold the Constitution,” were meet with support and applause from the American flag-wielding crowd.

But among the crowd of vocal protesters sat the relatively reserved Lynn Bower, a retired U.S. Marine Corps sergeant who served nine years during the Vietnam War.

Bower, clad in a leather Marine jacket, said he was proud to see the rights he fought for in Vietnam being exercised by the crowd of protestors.

He said he attended the rally to stand up for his rights and because, “I’m a patriot, I love my country, and I love Moffat County.”

Frank Archuleta, 18, received a prize for being the youngest registered voter in the crowd and, like Bower, he felt he needed to exercise his democratic rights by attending the rally.

“A lot of the stuff they are saying is true,” he said. “(Attending the rally) is a good thing because it will show our government that the people care about what the government does.”

The rally started with a speech from former county commissioner Darryl Steele who said that at the very least, the tea party is getting legislators’ attention.

He went on to say that it’s important for voters to “work hard to elect the right people to represent us.”

“There are two things that an elected official has to have. … They have to be morally sound and fiscally responsible,” Steele said.

Tea party member Matt Winey spoke after Steele and addressed what the tea party is and what the organization stands for. He said that despite public perception, the tea party is not a lawless group, and they are not racist, violent or ignorant.

Rather, he said, the party stands in support of the U.S. Constitution and voices the message of fiscal responsibility and limited government.

“What we are is a bunch of Americans who want our country back,” he said during his speech.

Cari Hermacinski, a radio personality on 55 Country and Steamboat Springs City Council president, addressed the crowd.

Hermacinski said there has been an erosion of common sense in the government. She went on to address the national debt and the recently passed health care bill.

“This movement is a force to be reckoned with because the door to take back our country is wide open,” she said.

She also addressed the issue of voting for candidates who represent the people and said, “We must elect officials who will serve us, not lord over us.”

Rick Barnes, another tea party member, spoke to the crowd about the importance of local involvement in politics.

He said in order to make a difference in Washington, D.C., “It starts here, in our community and in front of our courthouse.”

“We can’t afford any more jobs losses, and we can’t afford any more taxes,” he said.

Barnes went on to say tea party participation doesn’t end after voting, but that voting for “the right officials is the very beginning” to “holding them responsible.”

Moffat County Commissioner Audrey Danner attended the event.

“I’m here to listen,” Danner said.

“This is very important to hear what everyone has to say. I just spoke with someone who said, ‘We need to get back to the basics,’ and I said ‘What are the basics?’

“‘Balancing the budget’ is what they told me, (and) ‘Standing up for American freedoms,’ and I believe in that.”

Winey said during his speech that it is not enough to simply attend the tea party protest but the that message should be carried forward.

“Tax day is over, but we are just beginning,” he said.

Comments

beentheredonethat 5 years ago

He said that despite public perception, the tea party is not a lawless group, and they are not racist, violent or ignorant.

I disagree and see alot of racism and ignorance sustaining this "movement".

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Way to whip up the crowd, Radio Personality and Council President Cari Hermasinski. I support voting at least one person "lording over us" out of office in favor of common sense.

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the_Lizard 5 years ago

I disagree and see alot of racism and ignorance sustaining this "movement".

Have you? Tell us your insights into all the "racism" "violence" and "ignorance". Since you see "alot" of these atributes within the tea party movement, perhaps you would care to share your souces, or are they things you have witnessed with your own eyes; beentheredonethat. As you have seen "alot" of violence which sustains the movement, for instance, I think it would be important to lnow what type occurs , arrests made, crimes committed etc People can't have too much information and someone that sees a lot should share their expertise on the subject. TIA

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blue_spruce 5 years ago

Cari Hermasinski = Tea Party...?

Her behavior over the past year re: SB700 could have fooled me!

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blue_spruce 5 years ago

i know that someone already pointed this out on one of these blogs, but you gotta love the phenomenon of the “sitting protestor” ! the tea party people are the first to need folding chairs at their protests! funny stuff.

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ybul 5 years ago

Yep it is ignorance sustaining the movement, right... Sure, yea, you betcha... to steal from a quote of one of the people that most within the tea do not believe is qualified to be in the role she is in.

You ever really stop, think or listen to some of the reasons why some think government needs to stop making decisions for us...

here are some examples...

first - The funding mechanism for unemployment benefits is a tax (anytime you tax something you get less of it) to employers on the employees they are providing jobs. So if you hired 20 people as opposed to one backhoe to dig a ditch you will end up paying much higher unemployment taxes. Those companies that move jobs overseas do not have to contribute to the fund, so they evade this tax. So here is a government program which may have great intentions of providing a safety net for workers however its funding mechanism is counter productive.

As most who dismiss the movement (which is more a decentralized movement of people who are tired of government stupidity) say they do not see answers to problems we face. Here is an answer to the above problem, restructure the funding mechanism to tax energy, which fuels the technology that puts people out of work and products excluding food as that hits the poor too hard.

Second on health care, require health insurance policies to have high deductibles with HSA's. This will promote personal responsibility (which is another thing we would like to see) in that people would start to ask how much a given procedure would cost. If the individual shares in the cost they will choose a room with a room mate as opposed to a room without in order to save money. Without any skin in the game the patients are not going to help control costs. For those with compassion, give a tax credit to fund those that can't afford it, in addition to promote true HEALTH give a stipend to the poor of $1000 to pay their bills and if they stay healthy through living a healthy lifestyle then they can keep the remaining money in their HSA, once it will cover the entire deductible.

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ybul 5 years ago

How about the subsidizing of corn. This is helping to cause massive losses in our top soil which is well under 50% of what it was prior to tilling. This loss of topsoil, largely because of grain subsidies which encourage row crop farming as opposed to other methods (government failing to see the unintended consequences and if they do working to correct them), which represents a loss in sequestered carbon (a 1% increase in carbon in our agricultural lands would remove excess carbon from the atmosphere. The glut of corn this created has gone to make High fruitcose corn syrup which I heard yesterday is as addictive as cocaine. this substance is not easily processed by our bodies and tends to go straight to fat. It is helping to create our obesity problem and diabetes.

So while our government strives to make the right decision for us they tend to fail to see the unintended consequences and if they do correct them. Our government thrives on creating fiefdoms which are hard to get rid of.

The last big reason is our debt load and most could care less where you put the blame and many will concede that Bush is partly responsible but the rise in our deb real and unfunded which is nearing 70 trillion. IN 2020 the government will only be able to service its debt and meet the entitlement programs it has. No military, which needs drastically cut to get us out of this mess, no USDA, No DoE (either), no nothing. So why delay and burden future generations with this prospect why not work on getting back to fiscal responsibility which has been lacking for decades, not just Obama's creation.

It is not our ignorance, as the New York Times reported yesterday that typically those who associate with the movement are of a higher education and income than the general population. So I think that ignorance is not driving the movement, maybe it is ignorance that is driving the demonization of the movement.

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Exxon Mobile paid 15 Billion in corporate taxes last year. Care to gues how much of it the old USA got??? Try $0.00 or not one penny. How can you say that the US tax structure punishes business when a corporation the size of Exxon Mobile pays nothing?

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Poor Willard really does look exhausted but check the photo gallery for a nice mustache. Hey, is that Dusty Hill from ZZ Top in the background? Even Willard seems to have some mutton chops. If nothing else, I admire the Tea Party's tonsorial flair.

Really, zero US taxes for Exxon Mobile? That's impressive.

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Scott Wedel 5 years ago

Cari, I voted no, but I will vote yes, Hermanski complaining about government confusion? Surely, that was meant as a joke. There is no way she could have been serious, is there? Or is she our own Sarah Palin wannabe, say anything and facts be damned, local official?

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Here is just one link. Please excuse if you think it is a leftist publication. there ae hundreds more if you google "exxon mobile taxes 2009"

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-tax/

This is part of why our deficeits are so high. The Republicans would have us beleive that loweing taxes is "always" good for jobs and the economy. I would submit that the Bush Tax breaks to corporations and those lucky enough to be considered rich are at the heart of the problem.

Without those tax breaks and two unfunded wars,our deceits would be running much lower. Also to be included is the 700 Billion TARP bailout that our consevative friends would now have us believe is all Obama's fault. Who was the president when that bill was passed? Who signed it into law? How many Republicans voted for and actively supported TARP during those debates? Obama's fault? Sounds like the revisionist history that the conservatives are trying to stuff into the TX education system/

Defceits need to come down, 74% of the Federal Budget is: Military Medicare Social Security

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

Clearly We need higher taxes and spending reductions in these three programs. What would you cut? Even the Tea Party largely supports all thee of these programs. Without substantial revenue increases coupled with reductions in these three programs you are tilting at windmills.

PS. The CBO still says the Healthcare bill will save us billions over the next decade. You may or may not agree with that analysis but show me some study that says differently. Note I asked for a "study" not talking points or opinion!

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Duke_bets 5 years ago

'I fought in Vietnam, so I can protest taxes'........Really? Most Vietnam veterans don't protest because they know the reality of that war and the current wars.

Why are 18 year olds being quoted? Did that young man even pay taxes?

Hermacinski votes both ways, so why is she being quoted?

It's no surprise that Exxon didn't pay taxes. What big oil does?

They want to take America back...............Am I mistaken, or was Obama voted in by America?

I didn't know that taxes were a phenomenon this year...........Silly me, I've been paying taxes for 40 years.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Scott- I wonder if Ms. Hermacinski's qualifications include being able to see another county from her front door.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

And duke- Obama was brought(or bought, if you will) in by corporate America. The entire system is corrupted.

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Duke_bets 5 years ago

mmj - Lay off the smoke for one minute. Obama got voted in by America. Do you remember GW's 2nd term? Gore was actually voted in. GW was elected due to errors in Jeb's state.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Here we are reading the posts of those who just 2 years ago were supporting the violent protests against the same Government in which protesters donned the most vile depictions of the President. At least the Tea Party people make sense. And before anyone starts the "where were they when Bush was deficit spending", the speakers constantly include Bush in the Government spending condemnation and frequently state that the deficits were started under Bush. But that does not make it OK for the current Administration to quadruple the deficits and take over private industry. And now we know where Obama is taking us as yesterday he promised we would orbit Mars by the 2030's, I think I now know where his policies have been coming from.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Uh, Gore v Bush was the first term and America voted for Bush for a 2nd term. By the way I voted for Gore and am thankful today that he lost, I mean where would the AGW hoax be without crazy Al? 18 year olds are quoted because we still have some freedom of speech remaining and there are many who voted for Obama who have buyers remorse.They have a right to speak up and many do at these Tea Party rallies. And look who is now speaking for war Vets. Great. I think I'll look forward to a local ex-Vietnam Ranger taking Salazar's Congressional seat this November. Go Bob.

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Actually, I like most of what Bob has to say. Surprised See? He even acknowledges that the warrantless wiretapping program was illegal and unconstitutional unlike many of the Tea Party members.

Problem is that health insurance reform was necessary and needed and will NOT be repealed. Good luck with that.

PS. Your legal constitutional challenges will go the way of the Charmin that you used this morning. (Just my prediction/opinion)

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ybul 5 years ago

Trump,

Can I ask where you read in the article or in a post that states that tax policies punishes business'. The only reference I saw prior to your post was in mine. As such if you are referencing mine I suggest you go back and read what I stated about unemployment taxes.

A brief synopsis, is that it taxes employers based upon the payroll of employees working in the US. Where as companies which move there jobs overseas do not, nor do technological advances that make people obsolete or unemployed.

The lack of reason is rampant here today.

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Duke_bets 5 years ago

seeuski - No kidding on Gore vs Bush. The point was that Bush would not have had a second term because he was not deserving of the first. I apologize for not having a more polished sentence.

I actually voted for Bush on the second term because the Dems didn't put up a viable candidate.

Talk about buyers remorse.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Well, we have something in common here but I voted for Bush on the second go round because finally we had someone who used the big stick instead of just talking softly. And I changed my party affiliation once I realized how much we were being lied to by Clinton and then after 9/11 the Dems, who almost to a person stated at one time or another on the record that Saddam Hussein was our biggest threat and that he was involved in terrorism against us, but then when the political winds suited them they all changed their tunes and condemned Bush for going to war. Hypocrites. I say again, what ever happened to the "blood for oil"?

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seeuski 5 years ago

And Trump, Obama is President going on 2 years now and he is raising taxes dramatically on the "rich" so we will live and see if your high tax penalty dreams on the rich works out this time around, it never has before. And I guaranty you I am personally not in the tax brackets being targeted, no I just know that once the rich are taxed out who will be next? Hmmm. The easy button works here. VAT tax sound familiar? Watch the price of everything go up about 15% plus in a year or two.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years ago

I seem to remember the Clinton era having much higher tax rates...and the economy soared until the bubble burst, but we were actually paying down the National Debt.

I seem to remember the GW Bush era having much lower tax rates...and the economy soared until the bubble burst, but we were not paying down the National Debt; just increasing it.

Both eras started with Recessions and pretty much ended that way. (Funny how almost every Pres from Reagan forward has started under a Recession.)

Wonder why the 2 eras, both with 6yrs of Republican Congressional Control, ended up having mostly the same effect, but one era doubled the debt?

And why do people who so strongly advocate smaller government...end up running for government offices?

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freerider 5 years ago

Stupid Americans ...the 16th Amendment was never radified which means the IRS is an illegal corrupt extortion collection agency for the Federal reserve which is no more Federal than Federal express...all these idiots out there are just ranting with no intelligence on how to fix the broken system which has been broken since 1914 that's the year the federal reserve began to destroy the dollar and the Constitution

Blaming the Demo-craps or the Re-puk-licans is a waste of time the Fed owns them both...the only way to get back our rights is to audit the fed and get our gold reserves back from them and then dismantle the corrupt banking cartel which has ruined our dollar and the American way of life , it's also destoyed our Constitution .

Then get rid of the IRS ...Joe Bannister was a special agent for the IRS turned whistle blower and won his case for not filing taxes as there is NO LAW THAT SAYS WE HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX

It's interesting stuff if you want to learn more about it I would suggest watching

" Freedom to Fasicm " by Aaron Russo it's a detailed account of the illegal operations of both the IRS and Federal Reserve banking cartel

If you want to cure a disease you have to get it out of the body , but first you have to get to the root of the problem and identify what's causing the problem in the first place. Very few people out there understand the problem... wake up stupid fools the Federal reserve banking cartel owns you and has ruined America

Ron Paul the only true American Patriot in Congress also gets it

Ron Paul 2012 everybody else is a puppet on a string for the Fed

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seeuski 5 years ago

People running for office are replacing seated servants and not adding to the size of Government while this Administration is adding new Government agencies and adding new Government enterprises in the takeover of private industry. Those that we support are sworn to shrink big Government and return industry to the private sector where it belongs and work towards fiscal responsibility in future budgets and expenditures. Hence the term limited Government. As far as lower tax rates, I believe we started in a recession as you indicate and then we had a little event known as 9/11. We needed to stimulate the economy and tax cuts proved to be the correct action. Bush made budget mistakes for sure like no child left behind, which was a joint effort with Ted Kennedy, and the Medicaid prescription drug legislation which was largely under estimated at $400billion for 10 years but is now reaching $540billion. There certainly were mistakes made in how the wars were prosecuted but I believe we had to fight those wars and that is what the Commander in Chief's duties are, to protect the citizenry of the US. Go Bob McConnell.

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seeuski 5 years ago

freerider, Is it that all Americans are "stupid" as you put it, or is it that the media is complicit in the lies that are spoon fed to the masses and those masses are slowly awakening to the truth? The only danger though is the fringe kooks that use Ron Paul for ulterior propaganda motives. I have perused some of the flatulence that lurks in the shadows and it smells a lot like the 1930's all over again. Not that what is going down in DC now doesn't have the same stink to it, the takeover of private industry for example. Bottom line is, I am taking a look at Ron Paul among others. Ride on.

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Alan Geye 5 years ago

Does anyone else wonder why so many folks who write with such heat about subjects they appear to not understand and are perfectly willing to to get worked up over editorial snippets which have a tendency to be incomplete, one sided and sometimes downright misleading. It's time we Americans start thinking, really thinking about some of the complex issues we confront and actually doubt those who offer simplistic solutions.

To the guy who feels ExxonMobil pays no US income taxes, I'll bet he's never taken the time to actually obtain and read the ExxonMobil annual report. I am a CPA but at no time have I had any association with Exxon. Here's a link to the annual report on 10K where one can actually seek the facts:

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/drawFiling.asp?docKey=136-000119312510042929-1SJQE11241SPMEN8E3L5C894N1&docFormat=HTM&formType=10-K#D10K_HTM_FIN94192_5

I'd like to invite folks to pay attention to a few items from this report:

  1. Item 6, Selected financial data: Their Net Income, after tax was only about 6% of revenues in 2009.
  2. it's interesting that Exxon's effective income tax rate is 47%; shucks, that's pretty high in my book. Cash payments for income taxes was over $15 Billion in 2009 (Note 4 to Financial Statemens) but that represented less than 20% of all taxes paid by Exxon when one considers all forms of taxation! Not exactly getting away with murder.
  3. If one actually spends some time with the report, he'll find that a substantial portion of the company's exploration & production is done outside of the US, thus they are liable for taxes outside the US. Approximately 80% of capital expenditures were outside the US! Too bad they do not make these investments domestically but that's a different question and I think most folks understand the primary reason for this is because of US governmental limitations on exploration and development. Gosh, do you think we might create a bunch of jobs if that money COULD be spent domestically?

I don't know about you, but when one gets the "whole picture" rather than just a small piece, the analysis becomes more realistic. Let's spend a bit more time looking for hard data to evaluate positions and a maybe a little less heat on the BS.

Respectfully,

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freerider 5 years ago

seeuski ...Americans don't get it ...and yes I think they are stupid sheep...mostly

A great American once said a " house divided falls" Abraham Lincoln

here's the deal ....Republicans hate Democrats and blame them for everything Democrats hate Republicans and blame them for everything

A house divided falls

what should be happening is both parties need to get together and drop the party lines and become Americans again and gang bang the Federal Reserve and the IRS and tear them both apart at the seams only then will we be rid of the banking cartels that have ruined us...

The Teabaggers just rant and rave like Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh with no vision just empty rants with zero intelligence about what to do....things like " lets take America back " ok fine but not one suggestion about how to do it

I'm telling you how to do it ...first break the Fed then the IRS

Ron Paul gets it support him he also says get out of Iraq and Afganistan and stop wasting our money on these stupid wars ...terrorism is a tactic not a place...so why we in Afganiscam ?? Answer = war profiteering and fear mongering for $$$$$ [ war contracts ]

Afganistan ruined the Soviets and it's killing us as well

The big problem is that the fed owns the house and the senate ...BIG PROBLEM !!! bought and paid for criminals ...it's like who do want running the country the Gambino family [ democrats ] or the Genovases [ republicans ] take your pick

Americans still believe they have a choice that matters and thats what makes them stupid....which crime family are you going to vote for ???

And speaking of voting ...people that vote control nothing people that count votes control everything

get rid of all electronic voting machines as they can be hacked

RON PAUL 2012

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Scott Wedel 5 years ago

You are actually going to defend that Exxon claims some operations are run out of minimally existent offices in this or that tax shelter country so they don't have to pay taxes on the profits? Yes, Exxon pays royalties and payroll taxes, but they also play cynical tax loophole games available to the largest corporations to avoid paying taxes that should be paid to the US government to reduce the size of our deficit, (Whether or not they pay is not going to affect spending).

Just like when Washington State created some software tax then Microsoft claimed Windows and Office are not owned by Redmonds Washington corporate offices where they employ the great bulk of their programmers, but by a less than 100 person Nevada (I think) office?

If the taxes are so bad and the company cannot do business there then actually move. Exxon wants the benefits of being a US corporation, but doesn't want to pay US corporate income taxes. MS wants their Redmonds programming staff, but doesn't want to pay Washington State software taxes.

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seeuski 5 years ago

freerider, You obviously have a left wing slant and one problem with the book you promoted is the connection to 9/11 truthers who make up the truth. Another is that the deeper one goes into your movement the more you run into the blame the Zionists crowd. These kinds of sentiments during such a deep financial crisis are what brought about WWII and the Holocaust. We agree on some things here but your use of the Teabagger lingo pretty much diminishes any of your credibility in this discussion and as a member of the Tea Party movement I can say that the people I meet are of very high intelligence and ethics. And I would be very weary of the likes of Alex Jones and others who are using these times to gain sentiment but have other desires lurking beneath(see my above comment on WWII). I would hope the name calling would not have shown up but that is what happens when one thinks they have all the answers. No one does.

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Clearsky 5 years ago

Yeah tea partiers, let us have more toxic waste dumps in our back yards. Child labor laws? Everyone needs to work. Why not bring back slavery.... Get real!

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ybul 5 years ago

Scott,

So then you go after the reason they have such a competitive advantage against their independent competition. Take out the lax loopholes for IRA's, mortgage interest tax deductions and the pension guaratnees, which are mainly a boon for the Banking industry.

We need to start returning to a society in which people take care of themselves, the house of cards in which we live today is very shaky. We can not change teh world overnight, throw out taxes, the federal reserve and such. We need to make decisions on how to return to the country that was idolized by the rest of the world, produced the most equitable distribution of wealth the world has seen, etc..

Tearing down the IRS and the Fed will not get us back to where we need to be, those actions will cause the international bankers to send our currencies value the way of Zimbabwe's if we do not act to regain fiscal discipline. We need to require balanced budgets. We need to move away from the ponzi scheme that was Social Security in a fashion that does not wreak havoc with our seniors, but also allows the youth to plan for retirements on their own. Paying down their debt and trying to live debt free as the mort gage is a death grip and is the first thing that is required to be paid or the bankers will take from you those the equity you do have in your home.

The system has been rigged to benefit the banks and corporations and needs to be restructured such that the people stand an equal chance to compete and have some protections against the Lawyers suing you for slipping on ice, burning yourself with hot chocolate, etc.. People need to be treated as adults and the US has been treating people like children. We need to expect that our fellow countrymen can and will take care of themselves with some guidance.

History has shown that rarely is there a government that will not corrupt at some point and just because we have a democracy does not leave it free from corruption as we have seen recently.

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Duke_bets 5 years ago

Beaner - I'm no CPA, but have a good understanding of taxes.

A 47% tax rate is correct. Tell us more about the deductions that shrunk the net income. You state $15 billion was paid..........That was closer to 5-10% of actual net income.

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JLM 5 years ago

In evaluating Ex-Mob taxes, it might be useful to note that the reason there is so much tax revenue being incurred in foreign countries is because these foreign countries are more receptive to drilling activity.

If this administration were to actually open some territory to drilling, well, Ex-Mob would be spending their money in the US, would be employing Americans and would be paying taxes on revenue generated in the US. Again --- spending money here, employing our countrymen and paying US taxes.

Oh, yeah, forget to mention --- replacing foreign oil with domestic oil thereby sending those royalty checks not to royalty --- little inside oil Saudi royalty joke. Sorry. Americans would be cashing those oil royalty checks not Saudi princes.

That is why we want to drill in the US of A.

Does that make sense to you?

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seeuski 5 years ago

Whats fair is fair aye? GE, the company that ignored the Federal Governments ban on business with Iran, is a tax evader. Isn't the CEO Jeffery Imelt? Isn't Jeffery Imelt in Obamas Cabinet? Doesn't GE own MSNBC and NBC etc?

GE: 7,000 tax returns, $0 U.S. tax bill

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/companies/ge_7000_tax_returns/index.htm

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Scott Wedel 5 years ago

Seesuki, Are politics really so all encompassing that we judge what is fair by our corporations by their perceived political leanings?

I hope not. Screw GE for using off shore tax havens as well. The point is these companies want the stability and safety of US laws so they place much of their operations in the US, but the tax benefits of some tax haven so they claim the money all happens in the tax haven. But they know the tax haven is not stable and could change at any time so they have as small of an office as possible and probably have well rehearsed plans on how to evacuate in 15 minutes.

Smaller US corporations cannot play these games so it just gives the big corporations advantages over the smaller ones.

Why can't we agree that when something is wrong that it is wrong? We don't have to agree upon the solutions, but surely we can agree that large corporations using shell companies in corrupt tax haven countries is wrong.

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seeuski 5 years ago

I agree Scott, my post was directed towards the person who was targeting big oil as the offender and then ironically that same day I saw this article on GE, who by the way has a recent history of anti American activities in it's supplying Iran with weapons tech, so it was meant to illustrate exactly what you are saying but with a sarcastic flair. Moving on, this whole issue shines the spotlight on the problems with taxing the rich in this Socialist mindset of redistribution of wealth that Obama has this Country on. Who is going to bare the brunt of this stuff? Cap and Tax, Universal Health Care, pork spending and the huge waste of tax dollars in this new nanny state world we see being created.... WE ARE! We don't have offshore shelters to hide our income so we will be the ones left holding the bag, not the big bad rich guys. I guess we will have to learn our lessons yet again as too many people in this Country were not around for the Carter years. So we gather at Tea Party events because we care about the future of the USA and we know that Socialist policies are doomed to failure, we have historical proof. Robin Hood is a good story for the movies though.

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freerider 5 years ago

seeuski ....hey that's cool ....maybe you should go sign up for a V-CHIP and have it implanted under your skin like the feds are doing to people right now

All I'm saying is if you want the federal mafia to keep pushing you around then go ahead and do nothing which is what most people are doing

I'm neither left or right wing ..those parties are owned by the fed and muti-national corporations ....I'm an American period ....if you think our government is doing a good job then I guess everything in your world is just fine

I just happen to be one of those who sees the government for what it is...

The federal reserve is the mob boss of both parties and if they remain in power your rights as a human being are getting flushed down the toilet

I agree with you about Alex Jones he is just another fear monger on the other side of the fence

My point here is the government is supposed to work for us not the other way around And that's what's happened.

Until the teabaggers actually get a clue about things then I will continue to mock them If they get there act together then I'll go protest with them ....some of them are starting to see the light ...having Sarah Palin as their leader takes away their credibility

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freerider 5 years ago

seeuski ....just one more point about the federal reserve

since they have taken power in 1914 the value of the dollar is now worth about 2 cents

And they claim that we need them so the economy will stay stable

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seeuski 5 years ago

I don't disagree about the FED. But we aren't looking for anarchists and haters to join our group. If you don't think the Tea Party activism that has arisen this last year is doing something then I think you are blinded. What is it exactly that you are doing, other than calling us teabaggers?

And for my money, which I don't have much of anymore, I would do back flips to have Sarah Palin in place of Obama right now. Her track record in Alaska speaks volumes regardless of what the LSM portrays or SNL. Your guy attracts too many people who hate Israel for my liking, the blame the Jews crowd. Well the last time I checked the US never had a Jewish person as President. And Paul has said he would end his support for Israel. Well to me that could just bring the death to Israel and the Jewish people as is the desire of Ahmadenijahd(sic) and many others. Just because the Terrorists like Bin Laden claim our support as their reason for their terrorist activities does not make it right to except that propaganda as meaningful or true. So I fear Ron Paul almost as much as I do Obama. Sorry.

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seeuski 5 years ago

And the next time I see a fool wearing a Che t-shirt.......

"Hatred as the central element of our struggle… Hatred that is intransigent… Hatred so violent that it propels a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him violent and cold- blooded killing machine… We reject any peaceful approach. Violence is inevitable. To establish Socialism rivers of blood must flow. The victory of Socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims!"......Che Guevara

and

"The U.S. is the great enemy of mankind! Against those hyenas there is no option but extermination! If the nuclear missiles had remained (in Cuba) we would have fired them against the heart of the U.S. including New York City!".....Che Guevara

Those in the extreme left wing who are avowed Marxists/Communists/Socialists are hiding these kinds of sentiments inside. And you can now get Che Guevara rantings on your I-Phone. Well I for one will never buy another Apple product.

Apple is boycotting FOX news and promoting the murderer Che Guevara, what Country am I in? But to the idiots like Bill Clinton it's the Tea Party that may be violent, well tell that to the Jindal staffer who had her leg broken outside of Brennans in the French Quarter by 5 Anarchists complete with Che t-shirts.

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Might have to get one of those shirts now that I know they make heads blow up.

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exduffer 5 years ago

You up my taxes by $1 million, I hire another $500,000 tax attorney. He finds me an additional $2 million in write offs.

Simplify the code.

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exduffer 5 years ago

I get a nice raise and it puts me in a higher tax bracket paying twice as much in taxes as my raise was. My accountant says get a fancier business car and a bigger house, so I do. Now I am paying half the taxes I was before I got my raise. Simplify the code.

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Zed 5 years ago

How are the tea party protest any louder or more compelling than the protest of George Bush were? How about the protests against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? It is amazing how people can disregard such recent history and overwhelming support that Barack Obama still has in order to paint a picture of angry America rising up. The people protesting to end pointless wars that cost us lives and billions of dollars are more profound than a bunch of wealthy white people angry because they have to pay taxes. But I guess Fox news thinks it is the other way around....

And how much money are we still pouring into corrupt governments in Iraq and Afghanistan? I would much rather have my own government blow it on pork barrel projects here than send palettes of cash to broken governments that we propped up.

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Zed 5 years ago

"Her (Sarah Palin) track record in Alaska speaks volumes"

Is this a joke? Talk about blinded. She is an attractive celebrity for sure and has lots of "average joe" phrases, but I can't say I have heard any bright ideas for Alaska or our nation? How does quitting your term in office early speak volumes?

The thought of Palin and McCain taking control of two wars, the economic decline, and failure of wall street is frightening. A little drill baby drill, some maverick diplomacy, and plenty of straight talk would have shocked and awed the world for sure. They would probably have ended up on an oil rig with a "Mission Accomplished" banner in the background.

And will the Tea Party get me back my guns and religion(which Obama has taken away) in addition to increasing my paycheck to more than what the other 99% of the world makes instead of my current 98th percentile?

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Just some thoughts I've had while following this blog this week...in the spirit of full disclosure, I also spoke at the 1773/Steamboat Institute sponsored tax day rally on the nature of the American Dream. Man, some of you people just make it so easy to get to the propaganda under your comments...thanks for that!

BlueSpruce-I love how so many of your ilk like to comment on how violent, racist, sexist, reglionist, and generally ineducated and irrational most Tea Party participants are, and then you bring up the fact that they are all being nonviolent and sitting in protest. I haven't brushed up on this lately, and I may be totally off base, but I believe that Dr. Martin Luther King was a Republican who endorsed sit-ins as a valid form of protest against an oppressive government. By the way, did you know that Sarah Palin actually lead the citizens of Alaska as far away from recession as they could get, and that they are still currently in much better economic shape than our state, for one, and most other states? You may actually be able to get a job there.

Trump-OK, your corporation of example paid nothing in coprporate income taxes. Did you know that G.E. paid nothing this year? My mom and dad are both self-employed, and paid more taxes than G.E. and trust me, they earned nothing like G.E. did. I also want to take this moment to tell you something totally revolutionary-Our deficit isn't so big because people aren't paying taxes or because the economy is bad. Our deficit is getting worse because we have an administration that believes in spending more than it takes in. I also find your concept of health care being a mandated right laughable. According the Roe vs. Wade decision, we all have the right to decide what we want to support with respect to our bodies, right? Even when it comes down to whether we want to ensure those bodies, right?

PS-I hope G.E. will be standing behind their lightbulbs that take at least four times as much electricity to heat up. As well as that pesky mercury cleanup-these are far more harmful for our planet than throwing car batteries into the Yampa.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Scott-Talk less, think more. Every coporation does the same thing. You may be interested that the combined software tax Colo. is 2.4%, but the collective Colorado gas tax is 40.4%. Whine about software all you want, but the US Federal Government takes 18.4% on every gas purchase, and Denver taxes 22%. Pretty sure Exxon Mobil isn't the crook here.

Duke-Stop being a moron. It's too easy.

MMJ-If you were really vested in being able to do anything you wanted and have the government be left out of your life, you'd realize you were actually a "gasp" conservative. By the way, Sarah Palin said that Alaska was visible to Russia to emphasize the point that we are not as secure as we like to think-not that she could see Russia from her house. If you can't tell the difference between Tina Fey and Sarah Palin, I suggest a pair of glasses or an application to be a baseball umpire.

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

The gas tax is not set as a percentage. It has been 18.4 cents federal tax plus 22 cents Colorado tax since 1993. The last time I bought gas, I paid $2.83/gallon so the effective tax rate was 14%, not 40%.

Ms. Gleason should suggest how she would fund road plowing, maintenance, and construction if she doesn't like the gas tax. Commercial and public mobility don't happen for free.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Mr. Stoddard- Do you know what debt is? I checked my share of the national deficit at 5:00 am on Thursday morning, according to Rep. Salazar, in preparation of my talk at the 1773/Steamboat Institute Tax Payer Rally. My debt at that point was $41, 521.93 ( as of 5:00 am 4-15-10.). I just checked it again. My new debt (as of 8 pm 4-17-10) is $41, 662.88. Would you personally sign up for a partial debt that results in a debt you would never be able to pay off with an interest rate that costs you 2.237 dollars an HOUR? Or would you be concerned about the effect that it would have on your kids? The fact is that this debt puts us in jeopardy of maintaining a good credit rating among our peers and of promising to deliver on any future wealth that we may have to borrow in the event that our nation actually needs it. This jeopardizes the supremecy of the USA. If that's what you're after, go for it. See below.

Zed-Hate on Palin all you want to. The fact is that the woman can tell when a state is in trouble. I don't know whether she belongs in the White House, but she balanced Alaska's budget, made her residents a profit off of drilling, and had international leaders wrapped around her little finger. She seems to understand that protecting our citizens is essential to protecting our way of life, and that utilizing our resources could really help us stimulate the economy long term. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that she fulfills all her constiutional responsibilities. BTW, Zeb, you may be interested to know that Bush 2 contributed more in aid and support for democracy in Africa than Barack ever will during his persistent presidency.

And if you're happy being in the 98 percentile, why don't you start telling your kids that they may be able to be salutorian, but never validictorian?

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

George-

You might want to check out Wikipedia, of all sources, and it may explain something to you. In addition, there is the Tax Foundation, and the state by state tax table available at http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/245.html. BTW, accessing this website may make you aware of how much you are paying in beer tax, table wine tax, and cigarette tax. The person who posted this link cannot be resposible for just how angry all of this makes you, and claims no responsibility for those who chose to be angry with our government. The Colorado gas tax may include excise taxes, environmental fees, storage tank fees, "other fees and taxes," general sales tax, or certain municipalities where the average rate is based on the average sales price, just to give you a clue of what you are diving into when researching this topic. Is this enough legalese for you George?

Each of these sources specifically state that these are percentages. If you'd like to argue, give me something to look at. As for plowing, I would have thought that the sales and local income tax we all pay would be applicable to road maintenance. What does it go for instead, George? I mean, last year I made $28, 870.63 in taxable income. I paid $1071 in Colorado income tax. Was that an insufficient amount to repair my potholes? I also paid 8.5% sales tax on every purchase I made, including groceries. Where did this go? Steamboat Springs has an excellent snow removal force, but George, don't fool yourself into thinking that your taxes always go to good government and road maintenance. Our local government can waste anything they want to…including your 8.5%.

Also, please call me Sara. Ms. means I'm old...and, unfortunately for the people you like to believe, I still have many voting years in me.

Always willing to take the blinders off,

Sara K. Gleason

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

PS...Clearsky-It doesn't matter whether you are chained to a desk or to the guy next to you in the gulag. Working for someone else's benefit has always been at best indentured servatude, at worst slavery. So if you are working extra to pay taxes, those minutes are slavery. You say that everyone needs to work...how do we make sure that's happening?

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

PS...Clearsky-It doesn't matter whether you are chained to a desk or to the guy next to you in the gulag. Working for someone else's benefit has always been at best indentured servatude, at worst slavery. So if you are working extra to pay taxes, those minutes are slavery. You say that everyone needs to work...how do we make sure that's happening?

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exduffer 5 years ago

We paid $264 to register our car last year and drove it 5000 miles. At 20 mpg we paid $1.46 in taxes and fees per gallon of gas. If I drove it 20000 miles that drops to $.67 per gallon. Maybe I should just help Al Gore's cause.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Sara- You seem so god-awful knowledgeable about the whole damn thing, so why isn't your name on some ballots? And by the way, Sarah Palin is an idiot. Utterly and completely. If you want that crazy broad to run our country, you must have gotten your American history lessons at K-mart.

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Zed 5 years ago

"(Sarah Palin) had international leaders wrapped around her little finger." ^ And this is based on? Her mastery of geography and political leaders?

Working for someone else's benefit has always been at best indentured servatude(sp:servitude)" ^ My boss is a real slave driver for sure, and those crooks on Wall Street have been using the profits of my labor for too long as well. A lot of citizens are ok with their money going to schools, municipalities, parks, roads, healthcare, etc. When you are super wealthy you don't need public anything because you live in your own world, but the rest of the country depends on all of these government services.

Why does the Tea party show no concern for the crooks of big business? Look at the scam Goldman Sachs just got busted for, with the target being solely the Obama administration I think they are turning off a lot of people because it appears to be just more partisan hackery. If they started being more non-partisan and critical of the Bush administration as well I might be more open to their arguments. But it sounds like the same people that were hoping for Obama failure under a different name presenting themselves as grass roots.

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Sara, Your own link confirms my data. 40 cents per gallon, not 40%.

If you drive a car that gets 18 miles per gallon, that's 2.2 cents per mile. If you have a Prius and get 36 mpg, it's 1.1 cents per mile.

How about it Sara? Removing the blinders yet?

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seeuski 5 years ago

Well we can see that the lines are drawn and we have those of us who want to "change" from what this Government is doing to our future, arguing against those who want to look back and point their perfect little fingers at Bush to justify the agenda of the current Administration. Nothing either side says will effect a change of opinion here especially when you have people like the pain patient who between tokes describes the Sarah Palin depicted on SNL as an idiot. The Woman had the highest approval ratings of any leader in this country while she held office in Alaska because she did what she promised and was elected to do. Expose corruption and clean up Government, she did it. The oil and gas contracts were laid open for all Alaskans to see in the Capital before she signed them, the people knew exactly what was being done on their behalf.Compare that to what Obama promised every American: He would use a scalpel and go line by line cutting waste. He would have the most transparent White House. He would hold the health debate open on c-span. He would put all bills online for 72 hours before voting. He would bring the troops home. He bragged that he would go cave by cave and get Bin Laden, that must have sent tingles up certain peoples thighs. The list could go on. So in closing, the Tea Party people are not against taxes we are against the waste of tax payer money and the redistribution of wealth commonly known as Socialism. We are against the taking of private industry by the Government. We are against coddling up to,bowing to and apologizing to our World enemies and the turning of our back on our long term allies. And we are against open borders where illegal immigrants come here for free services and soon, if the Dems have their way, will get to vote in our elections. Most of all we are for returning to the basics and having our leaders in Government govern and do as they swear to when they are elected, uphold and protect the Constitution of the USA.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years ago

Sara- I know exactly what "debt" is. Guess what? I used to have a bunch of it until I got my act together when I was younger. My wife and I have only our mortgage and no other debt. We started wiping our debt clean during the Clinton years...just like the National Debt was being paid down. We just happened to continue it during the Bush years...just like Congress & the Administration didn't at that time. Those folks blame it on 2 wars. Not my fault we went into Iraq. Sure- Saddam is gone and that's a good thing. Was it worth doubling the debt back then when he had no way to hurt us? Not by my pocketbook. We found that out after the fact, even though some in the Administration were saying it was the wrong move at the time. So, we let Osama go a 2nd time, just like Clinton did. Thing is, nothing in your statement did anything to diminish the fact that higher taxes during the Clinton era paid down the National Debt and the Bush era tax cuts...didn't. I sure as heck don't remember too many people who are jumping on the Tea Wagon speaking up when we double the Debt with Bush. Everything was just clam-happy back then, right? As long as a Republican spends without an income, we're okay, right?

And pray tell: which international leaders did Palin have wrapped around her finger? Name ONE. Last I remember, she could barely name any international leaders. In fact, Africa wasn't even a continent by her recollection. She couldn't name which countries comprised NAFTA. She could just see their countries from her home or maybe even on TV. Maybe she'll follow suit as she did in Alaska: run for Pres, then quit to better serve her country. I wouldn't be surprised if she went to visit her son serving in the military by buying a ticket to India.

As for the Debt total, raise taxes back to a managed level. It's our own dang fault for believing that lowering taxes would solve the problems of the USA and voted in people who told us that. Most people stop spending or spend in a more frugal fashion when taking a pay cut. To bad Congress didn't do the same. In fact, they pretty much got rid of Pay-Go, which Republicans clamored around during the Clinton years. Instead, they decided deficit spending was the way to go...until they lost power. It all goes round.

So if you think you can school me on debt or Sarah Palin, please feel free. There's no new South Park tonight, so I could use a good laugh.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

No, I was wasn't describing the SNL version of Palin. I was describing the real-life, one and only, (writing on the hand) Sarah Palin. You can't honestly try to tell me that she was picked for her intelligence.

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seeuski 5 years ago

This is how people perpetuate hate, by getting their news from the clowns on SNL and the MSM. So no Palin did not go to India in 2006. "In 2006, Palin obtained a passport and in 2007 traveled for the first time outside of North America on a trip to Kuwait. There she visited the Khabari Alawazem Crossing at the Kuwait–Iraq border and met with members of the Alaska National Guard at several bases. On her return trip to the U.S., she visited injured soldiers in Germany.

In 2006 Obama went to Kenya on the taxpayers dime and campaigned for his cousin Odinga in his race for President. Much bloodshed has followed since those elections as Odinga attempted to steal the election. Gee sounds familiar.

In June 2007, Palin signed a record $6.6 billion operating budget into law. At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to $1.6 billion. In 2008, Palin vetoed $286 million, cutting or reducing funding for 350 projects from the FY09 capital budget.

Holy cow, she actually ran a Government and presided over a budget and she even used the veto. I wonder if Obama has yet to figure out that there are not 57 states.

Maybe he believed Sarah said Russia was one, but here is the quote from the Charlie Gibson's interview for the haters who watch SNL news.

"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?"

PALIN: "They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska"

Gibson's question, asked with him and his reading glasses in her face, was one of proximity and so Sarah answered but as usual she was being set up by the media biggies while Obama and Biden got a free pass and a bunch of softball interviews. Can you imagine if Sarah said "we have visited 57 states" what the MSM would have done? Proof positive. I don't even have to address all of Bidens guffaws I believe there is a book there are so many.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Writing ques on ones hand is very common in public speaking but at least she doesn't need a pair of teleprompters in order to speak to a sixth grade class so who is the dummy?

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

And you seem to be confusing my "Palin-bashing" with an assumed "Pr-O-bama-ness" that simply isn't there. I was intrigued by the promises that candidate Obama made but I didn't join the ranks of the other blind sheeple, by letting the wool get pulled over my eyes by another politician. Politicians lie. It's in the job description. I believe what I can see. I believe what people do, not what they tell me they're planning(or promising) to do. Talk is cheap. Can you think of a better way to exemplify "cheap talk" other than writing the real important stuff on your hand? If it's really all that imperative, wouldn't it be worth bearing in mind, not in hand?

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exduffer 5 years ago

mmj- I have never met you. Does that make you an idiot?

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

“Energy, Tax Cuts, Lift American Spirit.”

Boy, that's pretty damned difficult to remember! What was it again? Oh yeah, and wasn't something lined through? Like she could barely remember it right long enough to write it on her own palm. Spelling was okay I guess.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

x-duff, Not necessarily. Then again, if I had the media exposure that she has/had, I imagine there would be plenty of people that disagreed with what I say. Heck, some of 'em might even call me an idiot without meeting me, I'm almost sure of it. But I can tell you one thing with absolute certainty; they will never get picture/video of me with important talking points written on the palm of my hand.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years ago

Seeuski- Reagan used teleprompters. So what? Considering how useful they are, both Palin and Bush might have been able to pronounce "Nuclear" properly by using it. (Maybe they spell it out phonetically to help presidents when they speek.) Also, I don't remember anything in public speaking classes or on the Speech Team about writing stuff on your hand. Must have missed that part. I used index cards, personally. Here I thought only people cheating on tests wrote the answers on their body parts. How novel. I guess she must use a little polyurethane to keep it from smearing off.

Plus, I never brought up Palin using her hand instead of a teleprompter on this thread. What's the difference which you use anyway? You are still not speaking from memory either way. What kind if idiotic argument is that to stand behind? What does it have to do with anything? I'm sure a 6th grade class would be much more proud of a speaker looking at the notes on their hands. I'm sure it makes the 6th graders feel that the speaker is much more in sync with them intellectually. LOL!

Oh- and just before the whole "she governed the state of Alaska" stuff comparing it Obama as a Community Organizer comes from you...just remember that Chicago's population is 4x that of the whole state of Alaska. Alaska also RELIES firmly on oil subsidies AND federal subsidies. Fairbanks also has one of the highest property taxes in the nation due to no state sales or income tax. So, I guess taxes are in the eye of the beholder.

Oh- according to Wiki, Alaska has a "brain drain." That means "Many of its young people, including most of the highest academic achievers, leave the state after high school graduation and do not return." Wonder why that is??? I mean...it's a beautiful state! I see Palin still calls Alaska home. You betcha!

I won't bother to explain the India reference. Look up! It went over your head! (As if today should be any different for you.)

Late!

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

In all seriousness, I surely hope that no one here is condoning that particular brand of morality. How cheap do you have to be to have a moment before a speech where you say something to the effect of, "...wait, what was I supposed to be talking about?" This is especially true when you think about the issues that are concerned with this story; “Energy, Tax Cuts, Lift American Spirit.” How on earth do you expect me to respect someone(ESPECIALLY a politician) that has to resort to the childish measure of taking notes on their own palm? And this person wanted/wants to run our nation? Gadzooks!

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years ago

What happens if the speaker shakes hands with someone with sweaty palms before speaking?

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Scott Wedel 5 years ago

"GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?"

PALIN: "They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska"

And that answer is the joke. She had been saying that Alaska being near Russia helped her with foreign policy. His question was asking how did that help. Her answer was not on how it helped, but that, yes, Alaska is close to (a remote area) of Russia. With her answer just being that they are neighbors, it set up the joke.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Oh MMJ- You are so right. I don't know crap about history. I went to public school. I am sorry if you thought that I was calling you Pro-Obama, but rereading my comments, I never said that. (Sensitive issue there?) I just think that if you want to be left alone to smoke your weed and watch the history channel, you would do well to invest in and vote for conservative candidates who want to make your business YOUR business. I am of the opinion that if people want to be completely stoned all the time and don't run me down while I'm walking my dog, go for it. It's really no way to live life and experience it, but everyone has the right to be a moron until they infringe on my rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. BTW, I must not have gone to K-Mart since we don't have one here. My car couldn't make it to Craig or Laramie, but I love my clunker, and it helps to combat global cooling caused by volcanic eruptions entirely beyond human control! Also, I don't speak well in public (and often write things on my hand too), and I don't want to run for any elected position, so that's why my God-awful knowledgable name doesn't appear on any ballots. I even mentioned that I didn't know whether she belonged in the White House, but you can't argue with a state with a growing economy and an ability to provide a much needed resource to you and me, because I'd be willing to bet your snowmobile doesn't run on unicorn horns and sunshine, does it? You also can't argue with a candidate who has a certain view and is willing to stand on her principles, but doesn't feel as though social issues belong in government, except you predictably will. Sarah Palin-in a conservative activist position? Yes. I agree with you though-too many people think she's stupid to put her in the White House. Shame really. I could have used 0% taxes and a check from the oil company this year. Sara But I'd Love to Get a Ride to K-Mart the Next Time you go...even better, Target!

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Sara can't tell the difference between 40 cents per gallon and 40% of the cost of a gallon.

YampaValleyBoy is for a flat tax, no loopholes and elimination of the IRS. Corporate America must be trembling.

Seeusski holds out Palin's trip to army bases in Kuwait and Germany as evidence of what? Surely he wouldn't assert that she understands these countries from such a junket. Or would he?

Who needs Sunday funnies! Boy, I hope Willard got out for some exercise on such a beautiful day.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Sara- Listen, I'm not out to hate on everyone that jots something down on their hand so they can remember it later. I, too, have scribbled things on my hand when I've found myself without paper. However, if I were about to give a speech, mostly all about “Energy, Tax Cuts, Lift American Spirit,” I'm pretty sure that I'd have a hell of a time forgetting what the central points of my speech were. When you mount a massive defensive effort in favor of Palin, while in the same comment you start listing out all of the things that you don't necessarily like about Obama, ....well, it just seemed like you were making the particular assumption that I'm a fan of the man. And I don't own a snowmobile. But now that health care is a mandate, I guess I'll have to start living a little more recklessly and go get one. Just as soon as I get my bail-out...

And you wanna talk about infringement of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Where does the drug war(mainly waged against cannabis) fit in with all of that? You've been watching "Reefer Madness" too much.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

MMJ-

You may or may not be aware of the fact that the plant we call marijuana has become much more potent through human influenced breeding. I know that marijuana (sp?) was originally outlawed as part of a process to drive Latinos out of the west in an effort to claim the land without having to argue whether the land was occupied, and in an effort to put pressure on the European powers that controlled Mexicana at the time. So it's not really the drug that our founders had in mind, is it? Nor is the drug war in the constitution. That is really the document that Tea Partiers look to to legitimize the government, and this government wants to overreach to places are not authorized by our constitution. I don't really give a shoe who you voted for, but looking at your hatred for a woman who balanced her budget (all Clinton supporters take note), and actually managed to get her citizens a refund for the resources being taken out of their state, I have to wonder whether you want to stand up for your rights or whether you want to fall in with the left-wing propaganda that only benefits Washington by just hating an attractive woman who makes sense. CONSERVATIVES DO NOT CARE WHO YOU VOTED FOR, WE ONLY KNOW THAT VOTING FOR A GOVERNMENT THAT LEGITIMIZES ITSELF WITHOUT REGARD TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT A LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT. That's it. We want to pay less taxes, have a more secure border, lower taxes, free markets, and individual rights and responsibilities. Very radical, huh?

PS- A ton of people are idiots, so I won't have the occasion to respond to you soon. Sorry!

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Matt- By your account you appear to be living the life that many Americans should have been for the past thirty years. Maybe you should look into teaching people how to live debt free or something-I talked not too long ago with a manager at a place downtown who really believed that not using his credit card was denying himself something ( a big "treat" I think he called it). He had no concept that if you couldn't pay it off immediately, it would hold sway over you your entire life. Trust me, I am still paying for beer that I drank in college before I ever understood what debt was. I do want you to consider something though- in 1977 Jimmy Carter signed the CRA, which had the effect of institutionalizing racisim and insuring that people wouldn't be able to pay their bills, putting them in subjucation to the financial system. Then we just let the fox into the henhouse, and sold off assets that really weren't assets at all, and created money out of thin air! Then we sold off some of those assets to international investors, and they had imaginary money too! The only bad thing is that yes, the bubble does burst eventually, and it did. And the stimulus and subsequent financial regulations will only serve to prolong the agony. It's time to face up to this so our kids don't have to. Allowing people to subjugate themselves to "the man" is never fair to them, doesn't actually accomplish anything, and it doesn't allow them to truly live their lives the way they want to. It chains them to a desk, a job, and the system.

Check out Karzai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxXs9E.... He, in broken English, explains how he thought Palin was actually capable! He also says how pleased he was with her! Take note, Zed.

I absolutely agree that that Republican party WAY OVERSPENT. What I think you are missing is that the Tea Partiers are against overspending on both sides. The entire reason that this movement exists is that the overspending and overreaching of government is not being addressed by a new administration that believes in more spending for social programs, declares that they want to at least halt taxes for lower income earners, and claims that they have done that, while also making sure that my average cost of living is raised. My personal philosophy probably actually tends toward privitization of most government functions, but I am the first in line to admit that I utilize public resources (such as roads) every day. So I am willing to make that compromise with my property (aka income), and make sure that those are funded through me paying taxes. I am not, however, willing to fund weatherization in Nebraska, a WWII museum in New Orleans, or, on a more local level, the repaving of main street in concrete. These are not government functions. These are projects that I would fund if not demanded of me, and if I had the 20% that was taken out of my paycheck to begin with. Sara

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

George-

You are actually right. I admit that I made a mistake, and I ask you not to forgive my error, but my snotty attitude. You are right. I still think gas taxes are too high though. You may not be directly paying them at the pump, but gas prices are heavily influenced by environmental policy, federal regulations, and taxation by our government. How else can you explain the huge leap in prices since the mid 1980's?

PS-Who's Willard?

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Sara, I do snotty pretty good myself so no offense on that account.

Willard White is holding the flag in the picture.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years ago

Sara-

The CRA was created over 30yrs ago. Many have had their hands in it since then. 8 times since 1989 involved legislative changes to the original act. That included GHW Bush, Clinton & GW Bush. I can find no one party to blame that on.

Karzai...LOL!!! Okay, you got me on that one...if you consider him an international leader of any kind, given his record on controlling corruption in his own administration or his own country. Had we left Iraq alone and routed the Taliban in Afghanistan & captured Osama, Karzai might actually be running the country.

Also- remember that line I wrote about how Alaska has no state tax & lives off of oil & federal subsidies? That means your tax dollars were being spent by Gov. Palin when she was in office. You remember that little Bridge to Nowhere that she said "no thanks" to? Do you remember further back, before 2008's Pres race? (2008- Alaska was the top per-capita pork winner...while she was running. Arizona? The lowest. Did you know that one?)

"We need to come to the defense of Southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table like the bridge, and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative," Palin said in August 2006, according to the Ketchikan Daily News. Alaska usually rides in the Top 10 for pork barrel earmarks, too. Feeling good about how she wanted to spend your personal tax money now? A WWII Museum in New Orleans sounds a little more plausible when comparing it to the Bridge.

And no- the Tea Partiers only seem to be demonstrating against the Dems currently in office. I haven't seen one rally against a Republican that's been televised. (Remember- if it's not on tape, it didn't happen, according to the people saying nobody yelled racist remarks last month at members of congress) All the Republicans jumping on that bandwagon are doing so only for the votes. Once in office, they will continue to spend. And don't kid yourself- roads aren't the only thing you use. If that were the case, the Republicans would be singing the praises of taking $500 billion from Medicare...since it's a socialist measure. They've been wanting to get rid of it for years. Why is it so important now?

As for privatizing government programs...bet you're glad Bush didn't privatize Social Security, aren't you? Lucky for everyone who wanted it that it didn't happen. They'd probably be out of that cash after the market crash.

If you truly think the Tea Party is going to change anything, good luck hanging onto that. There are so many factions of the Tea Party, it will go the way of the Reform Party in a decade. They wanted fiscal responsibility, too.

(And for those that have even forgotten this article entirely while grandstanding, Willard is the guy in the picture at the top of the page.)

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Sara- The founding forefathers had a hell of a lot more to do with cannabis than it's usefulness in a rope or paper capacity. That's right, they got high. Deal with it. You're right about the war against cannabis being something that was derived with vile racism at it's core. And they hated jazz musicians too. Another main reason that the prohibition of cannabis saw so much success was that a couple of industry giants were involved at its inception. DOW chemicals, along with the paper industry and pharmaceutical industry, were heavily involved in spawning the war against cannabis because it was good for business, not because it kept people safe. After all, the quickest way to eliminate your competition is to deem them as outlaws, by enacting new legislation. It's too bad that relics from that era still exist but when laws like that provide for so much job security, people have a difficult time addressing their own personal morality.

And regardless of what Palin did in Alaska, or anywhere for that matter, I still don't want her anywhere near the helm of my country. It just boggles my mind that people(my own mother included) are falling for her crap.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Sara, Arguing with Matt is a waste of breath because he actually believes what he says like.."As for privatizing government programs...bet you're glad Bush didn't privatize Social Security, aren't you? Lucky for everyone who wanted it that it didn't happen. They'd probably be out of that cash after the market crash." What a laugher, is this guy tuned only to Olberman? News to Matt, SOCIAL SECURITY IS IN THE RED: Maybe having an online account where we could control our SS money would look pretty good right about now. And as far as the pathetic arguments about Sarah Palin's notes, they were ques not notes. They helped her keep the speech moving along in the order she rehearsed it. But that's OK, the only reason we are wasting our time on Sarah Palin being of necessary competence to lead is because you lefty's are SCARED of her because she has such a large following. Heck her ratings are equal to Obama's and she has the MSM working against her while Obama has the benefit of a friendly media. More and more main stream Americans are realizing that she is more like them than Obama and most Dems these days. Yea, unlike the loyal progressives posting here it would be a dream come true and the "Hope" we really need to save this Country from Socialism if Palin was the POTUS in place of the community organizer/ACORN Hustler we have now. What a nightmare. I can only hold my breath for another 3 1/2 years that nothing irreversible is done to us.

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seeuski 5 years ago

You ought to listen to your Mom, she sounds like she has a life of experience and like many of us, me included, have given up our old ideologue desires for common sense principles. And mmj, not all of us are so passionate for or against your right to toke. I have had my experiences with the bong in my younger days and I am sorry to say that my pain level never changed but my goofiness level sure did. The people in Denny's at 1am must have twisted their necks to glimpse who the idiots were giggling for no reason and shoving handfuls of bacon and eggs their our mouths. I am not against your wants but I can't agree that pot has no consequences, I've been there done that and know. Yea, yea, alcohol when abused causes........ Legalize it and bust the stoned drivers just the same as drunk ones and make partly smoked or freshly rolled joints just like open containers. Now lets move forward.

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Been out of touch for the weekend and boy did this topic change :)

Just for the record I single out Exxon because the numbers are so glaring and wrong. That was not intended to be a diatribe against "Big Oil". I was meant to be an example of corporate abuse and also the intended/unintended consequences of our tax code. I conpletely agree with your commentary about GE also.

We have huge deficeits and are letting corporations get away with avoiding taxes completely. Does anyone beleive that there are no profits being made by them? How are they managing to avoid paying US TAXES when it is clear that American coprporations are paying taxes to other counties. This is simply wrong.

As to the rest, I will just stand down...

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brian ferguson 5 years ago

Well, since we're off topic, where would I get one of those snomobiles that run on unicorn horns and sunshine?

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seeuski 5 years ago

Carrie Underwood just won ACM's entertainer of the year. Love her. Now that's what I call off topic.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Matt-

I know I'm not going to change your mind, but yes, I do wish social security were privatized, around 1935. I spent $1789.98 in social security taxes last year. I'm 26 years old. I will never see that money again, since pretty much everyone agrees that our current social security policy is unsustainable. I could have paid 3 and a half month's rent with that. And that doesn't even include the money my employer would pay me if he didn't have to pay taxes just for giving me a job.

So many people have had their hands on the CRA. Republicans and Democrats? And all the establishment has done is to bilk people out of their money to support an economic policy that propogates a false economic bubble? Shocked. I think you are really missing the point. The Tea Party movement is not pro-Republican, and is actually far from it. I am a registered Republican, but I feel like the waiter in the Godfather who is just covered in splatter for nothing worse than being there. The Americian workers have done nothing except be there, and we have the Corleones (Dems) and corrupt elected officials (Repubics). We are just trying to live our lives without too much interference from a government who only values people as long as they can support the government without getting our own brains blown out. That's why Americans are mad. BTW-recent polls show that one in five Americans identifies with the Tea Party movement, and that 1 in ten has actively supported the movement. Pretty large fringe, huh? Since you write about how this movement "seems" to be only protesting against Dems in office, I want to know exactly how many rallies you have been to. Didn't see you on Thursday, but I want to know, have you actually attended a taxpayer protest rally or are you just spouting off?

And sorry that you think the truth is "grandstanding," since you seem to love your own soapbox so much. You are absolutely right about Willard, and I hope he had a good weekend too.

As for Alaska, I think that the government is as stupid does. I mean, that stupid is as the government does. I mean...that the fact that our federal tax dollars are spent in Alaska doesn't really shock me at all. I want the money that I put into the public coffer to be spent, but on functions that our constitution allows. If our federal government is taking in more money than it can pay out in the legitimate functions outlined in the constitution, than the people who paid the money in should get a refund. I won't argue that there is a huge amount of corruption, and the subsidies to Alaska may be an example of that. Let me know what you find out!

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

MMJ-

I never said that our founding fathers didn't smoke weed-George Washington grew cannibis (probably for fiber usage, but who knows). And I agree with you that the war on drugs has spent countless dollars in order to combat a problem that can really only be solved on an individual basis. Everyone has the right to be a moron, and I really can't argue about the individual's right to imbibe in whatever they want to. DOW, Monsanto, and others have also been instrumental in preventing anyone who actually eats from seeing what's in their food. Corruption and government spending on things that they don't have the right to spend taxpayer money on probably have more to do with it...not with the actual drug. Perhaps if Americans had always held their elected officials to the constitution, we wouldn't even be talking about the legality of marijuana. Just a thought-let's get back to worrying about ourselves. That will be more than enough in most cases.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Backroader-

I think that those snowmobiles are still a few years off, but trust me, Obama will get them for you!

Seeuski-

She was beautiful, and such a classy lady. Go Carrie!

trump-

Don't "stand down." I would love to hear your thoughts, not MSNBCs talking points. Let's open a real debate-more people read these comments than you would believe!

Oops-forgot the mention to Mr. Stoddard that Karzai is only in power because Obama refused to investigate many, many, many claims of election fraud. Like he refused to in Iran. So I guess that if you don't think Karzai is a world leader when NATO has many people stationed there, lots of world leaders who have agreed to send their troops to Afghanistan, and many Americans are sacrificing time, energy, and lives to defend the country of Afghanistan, you might not think that Karzai is a world leader, or you might think that Obama has endorsed his tyranny. Just saying...

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Sara, You seem to be under the impression that my medicine, somehow, makes me dumber than you or, at the very least, someone that doesn't use cannabis as medicine. How did you let yourself get so brainwashed? My medicine allows me to function as a normal individual far more than any other medicine out there. It's really not all that surprising, seeing how people used cannabis in a medicinal capacity LONG before(thousands of years) some bureaucrat(s) decided that it was bad for business. And sure, through selective breeding(choosing the most desirable traits to be passed on to the next generation) there has been a small increase in potency over the years. However, I would love to see what evidence you have that cannabis is markedly more potent than in days of old. Interestingly enough, they actually have a strain of cannabis now that contains almost 0% THC(the stuff that makes you feel all funny), while at the same time it contains a much higher percentage of CBD's. In other words, there exists a strain of cannabis that doesn't get you high when you smoke it. However, I don't think this is going to matter to you because you're another one of the sheeple that wakes up every morning and happily dons their blinders. Ignorance is bliss, I guess, and in your mind there's no hope for a stupid ol' stoner like me. Some of us live a different reality. Have fun with yours though!

seeuski- There's no doubting that my mother is a highly experienced and highly knowledgeable woman. However, and I love you mom, but this does not make her version of politics any more correct than my own. People mostly believe whatever is going to make them feel good and if you want to put your hope/faith in another BS, lying dog, twisted/corrupted, two-faced political figure.....be my guest. To quote one of our most entertaining presidents, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.....well, ...see..., once you get fooled, ya can't get fooled again." (maybe not verbatim, but pretty damn close)

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

seeuski- Ques vs. notes? That's what you come up with in defense of your beloved Palin? Isn't that, at least slightly, akin to Mr. William J. Clinton arguing the definition of a word during the whole Lewinski thing? Whatever was on her hand, was put there because(and this is strictly assumption) she couldn't remember those things all on her own. Whether they're notes or ques or answers to last night's "Daily Double" on Jeopardy....regardless, I still don't want her anywhere near the oval office.

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seeuski 5 years ago

And Ron Paul has you wrapped around his little finger. Just another lying twisted sleezy politician. Or not since he is your man? You have the beautiful attitude of it's my way or the highway as you posted earlier if the Teab...rs get behind Ron then I'm in. We'll do just fine without you, but let your nice Mom know we have room.

And I must comment on how enjoyable watching the ACM awards was last night, in retrospect, the contrast with the Grammy's is huge with no political blather from the artists. Just sing baby.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

When have I ever claimed any allegiance to any politician? Ron Paul has some great ideas but I just don't know how practically feasible they are. And it's not "my way or the highway." It's more Spock-ishly about logic and reason.

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Duke_bets 5 years ago

Sara - Where do you buy gas at $1.00 / gallon? If you pay $3.00 / gallon like the rest of us, your math skills are a sight.

And, you called me a moron for making a comment about big oil and taxes.

Good day.

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Ok Sara, Notes on hand Vs. Teleprompter - Tempest in a Teapot. This is no big deal. The only reason people made fun of Sarah Palin for using notes is because she was so critical of Obama for using a teleprompter and giving "pretty speeches". This is or shoud be a non-issue.

On the other hand, anyone who watched the Sarah Palin/Katie Couric interview came away thinking "incompetant" Anyone that responds that badly to unscripted questions is not the person I want responding to national emergencies. This woman was flustered by simple questions and gave one of the most inept interviews that I have ever seen. Go back and review it,

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JLM 5 years ago

You gotta love somebody calling another "incompetant"! Isn't life grand?

And, sure, one bad answer for each life time, that's about right, no?

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Duke_bets 5 years ago

JLM - You missed the point. I'm certain incompetent was misspelled on purpose.

Your response helped to prove the point.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Do you mean the condescending question Couric asked about what publications Palin reads to get her world view? Palin answered the inquiries about her response that she was agitated by the way she was being treated in comparison to how the media was treating Obama/Biden. You can under estimate Palin if you wish but to those of us that have given her a fair evaluation we know better. Reagan was treated much the same until he won the White House, just a dumb actor. But wait, he was also the Governor of a large state. Ah, I guess one needs the experience of community organizing/hustling.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Being Governor of CA is just a bit different than being Governor of AK, but I see your point. After all, electing people that never should have been there in the first place is something our country is beginning to do very well.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Use the brain people, if Palin had told Couric she reads xy and z papers it would only serve to justify the ones the left wingers like and then create food for fodder for the ones the left wingers hate. I could see the reports a year later....Palin condemns NYT after claiming it a source during campaign. So I say Palin was quick on her feet and smelled that rat. There would be no good answer for Sarah on that stupid, sexist question. Why not ask questions about the economy or the war on terror, you know, things people are actually interested in? Which reporter asked Obama the papers he reads for his opinions? NONE! I believe anyone who would still be standing tall after the crap that was hurled their way like what happened to Sarah, the lies about her child not being hers, the traitor for money father of her grandchild lying on the family, the SNL crap, the hateful media, Charlie Gibsons bad breath, the McCain campaign staff traitors, the hundreds of activist investigative reporters looking for dirt in AK, the hundreds of frivolous ethics complaints that were all dismissed, the hacking of her personal email account etc. etc. etc. is......... Battle tested and ready to serve.

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Cooke 5 years ago

@ Sara "Don't "stand down." I would love to hear your thoughts, not MSNBCs talking points. Let's open a real debate-more people read these comments than you would believe!"

Sara -- while I know that lots in this thread are dependent on sarcasm, I don't think you can legitimately call for a "real debate" when you use as much sarcasm as you have in this thread. If you were actually interested in a real debate, you would follow some debate etiquette. Sorry to single you out, but you calling for a real debate is just too much. Debate is about conversation, not attack.

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Now I see the genius in Sarah's appearing to be nearly illiterate. Let's put her steady hand on the nuculaer button and make the world safe again.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Cooke, Do you mean the type of debate that Krawzoff engages in?

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

A fact based debate instead of the anonymous sniping and personal attacks from Seeusski, whoever he or she may be?

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seeuski 5 years ago

Your Humble Ranch debate is interesting but your left wing style here is certainly less than fact based. But continue on.

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Cooke 5 years ago

See -- No. I tried to be clear in my post that there was a lot of sarcasm flying around this thread. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of Sara calling for a meaningful debate while engaging so heavily in its use. Anonymous or not, most of what happens here seems to be people pushing their opinions on proverbial brick walls. Maybe we can attribute some of the lack of meaningful dialogue to the tone of the participants. However, that is just the opinion of another anonymous and self-righteous blogger.

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seeuski 5 years ago

So Cooke, it is sarcastic debate if you are in disagreement with the debater? And there are several here who are not anonymous who use plenty of sarcasm. Sara has shown respect for here opponents in her responses and when she obviously erred in not using cents per gallon as apposed to % of sale, 40% or 40cents, she was sarcastically berated for her math skills. I have heard her speak in public and she has earned the benefit of the doubt from me. But what do I know, so has the other Sarah.

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Thanks See. I appreciate your interest in the Humble Ranch issue. If people are concerned about the waste of public money, this is a great issue for their activism. When the public provides $1 million to help buy a ranch and then sees their trail easements obstructed as their "thanks," there is good reason for a tea party. http://www.humbleranch.info.

With respect to my "left wing style," it might help to know that the current and past Executive Directors of CDOT, Russ George and Tom Norton, are former Republican legislators. The current and past chairs of the CDOT commission are also Republicans. Current Chair Kim Killin is from the eastern plains, owns a trucking company and is an attorney. The commission as a whole is bipartisan as was the Blue Ribbon Panel that called for an additional $500 million annually to keep Colorado's roads from falling apart plus another $1 billion annually to advance Colorado's transportation system into the next century. That was, of course, before CDOT's budget lost $500 million from gas tax revenue declines and the loss of Senate Bill 1 (of 97) revenues.

Mistaking our 40 cents/gallon gas tax for a 40% tax rate is understandable but makes a large difference in this debate. I appreciate Sara's gracious apology for the sarcasm accompanying her first reply to my correction once she understood this point.

Categorizing people as "lefties" or some other label is an effective strategy for talk show hosts but less so in a local community forum.

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Cooke 5 years ago

No see,

I am not taking issue with what Sara is saying. I disagree that Sara is showing respect to those who she disagrees with - take a look at her posts and see for yourself. I fully acknowledge also that those who disagree with Sara have not shown her respect. I will only say this once more, calling for meaningful debate while engaging in heavy use of sarcasm doesn't work. Whose mind are you going to change through thinly veiled insults? I and many others read blogs to try and gain more information on a given subject, but I see no credibility in a poster who uses insults, sarcasm, or personal attacks. Therefore, even if the poster has some expertise on the issue, I can't take them seriously. As I have said in my previous two posts now, I recognize that there is a ton of sarcasm coming from all sides; I called out Sara because she called for "real debate".

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Please excuse my humble spelling errors. I was not aware that every idea had to be spelled perfectly in order to be heard. I will try to proofread better in the future.

Go back and listen to the interview, she never answers multiple questions, talks in circles, repeats herself and generally shows a complete lack of either knowledge, or an inability to think on the fly. Most of those questions should have been slam dunk easy for someone that is running for political office.

We get better meat than that from our local Routt County and Steamboat politicians. Sorry, but my opinion of that interview colored my view of Sarah Palin forever and that opinion seems to be widely shared.

Ask Mr. McConnell the same questions and see what kind of intelligence comes thru. I think that he would tear her up in any kind of debate or forum. She makes a GREAT speaker and is good at energizing the crowd and highlighting the differences of opinion. However, electing her to President or VP is a stretch at best. (She is probably smarter than Nancy Pelosi, would that help?)

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seeuski 5 years ago

Thanks trump, coming from you I'm sure Sarah would take that as a compliment. Did you see Obama's answer last week to the Woman who asked how could we afford more taxes? He went off on a round about 17 minute blather fest and then after repeating his non-points several times said "I hope that answered your question". I am sure you have some misgivings with Obama by now, what with all the bowing. BTW, Obama on Saturday played his 32nd round of golf since taking office, GWB had a total of some 24 rounds in eight years. where is the media bashing on this? Bush was excoriated for going to Crawford once a month. And now after Obama warned Iran that they would be in big double trouble by last September if they didn't do something we learn by leaked memo that Obama has no long term contingency plans to deal with Iran's nuclear desires and threats. Oh I feel safe, NOT!!!

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seeuski 5 years ago

And trump really, is there a Conservative Republican that you would support? Seriously? And McCain doesn't fall into the Conservative category, that is why so many people say they voted for Palin in 2008.

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Hmmm, voted for Reagan(2), Bush 1 once, Bush 2 once. Yes I would vote for a conservative. Problem is they have all been pushed away from Fiscal conservatism and all that is left is social conservatism.

I consider myself a fiscal conservative and a social liberal for whatever that's worth. Not many politicians on either side really match up very well and as the politics get bitter, they both walk away from what I beleive.

Regardless of my politcal opinion, Health Insurance reform was necessary. We will see if they got it even close to right as the years go forward. Even the Tea Party supports Medicare and Social Security, so...........................

yes, I would like to see a balanced budget and at least a return to the pay-go. What would you cut to balance?

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Sorry to take this thread back to taxes but I've been waiting for some info before saying something about Exduffer's comment. He wrote "We paid $264 to register our car last year and drove it 5000 miles. At 20 mpg we paid $1.46 in taxes and fees per gallon of gas. If I drove it 20000 miles that drops to $.67 per gallon. Maybe I should just help Al Gore's cause." Without attacking Mr. Exduffer, I have to say he's flat-out wrong.

Sara and I now agree that you pay 40 cents (22 cents for Colorado, 18.4 to the Feds) per gallon of gas.

It's harder to talk about Exduffer's vehicle registration fees because city, state, and local taxes, the vehicle weight, age, and value, and a variety of fees are all rolled in to the calculation. However, the one sure thing is that CDOT gets very little of what Exduffer paid. The recently passed FASTER road safety fee and the bridge safety fee should add-up to $40. You might still argue that he paid too much in taxes to the city, county, and state, and you might argue that the fees for police officers and medical emergency personnel, and so on are too high but don't blame CDOT.

Let's say that $50 of the $264 Exduffer paid is for CDOT. At 5,000 miles (lower than average by the way), he paid $.01 per mile out of these fees. Together with the 2 cents per mile gas tax, he paid 3 cents per mile to use the roads. That seems like a bargain to me. How about you?

If we look at it per gallon of gas, we know he burns 1 gallon every 20 miles. So if he pays 20 cents in registration fees per gallon plus 40 cents in gas tax, his total load is 60 cents per gallon - not $1.46 per gallon. Driving the car 20,000 miles would change this to 5 cents in registration fees plus the gas tax or 45 cents per gallon.

Ready to go back to sarcasm and making fun of each other now?

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aichempty 5 years ago

Here's what it's coming down to.

If people who make less money are going to pay less in taxes, then that's an automatic incentive to make less money.

If I have to work 60 hours to make money that will be taxed at 25% or more, then it's easier to work 40 hours and make less money. That extra 20 hours of effort only brings me about 12 hours worth of return by the time I pay tax on it.

How can I afford to give up that 12 hours of income? Easy.

Live in a smaller home. Drive a more economical car.

A lot of people around here are accustomed to spending their last cent on living expenses, but it's not that way for people who have lived a long time, worked hard and saved and invested, and spent "conservatively."

The most productive and highly-paid Baby Boomers are now in the process of down-sizing and retiring. Money is being saved instead of spent on things that would provide jobs for working people.

Environmentalism has sent all the good jobs overseas. Health care costs are making people think twice about spending their savings on "stuff."

People with money in the bank for future needs have many ways to avoid triggering tax liabilities (selling stocks only when there are off-setting losses to balance the gain, tax-free municipal bonds, etc.). It's not that hard to budget for normal daily needs, allowing people to live mostly on what they clear from retirement plans, when there's a nest-egg sitting there for "emergencies."

I knew a retired teacher who died last year at age 92. She was living in a paid-for home and had savings almost equal to the value of the house. Her estate was over $200,000 and she had been retired for almost 30 years. Wow, huh? Now imagine the people who are pushing 60 with paid-for homes and a million bucks in the bank, and there are lots of them. Avoiding the tax burden that comes from earned income by not earning anything is viable for lots of people.

The so-called "poor" who pay no income tax (47% of American wage earners at this time) are not the ones who have savings and paid-for homes. As the Boomers opt out of the tax system by having less taxable income in retirement, the number of people left to support the lower 47% is going to shrink. The people left in the system cannot sustain it for very long.

So, there's your "tea party," right there. They're going to take the money and go home and live on it and join the lower 47%. There's no tax on net worth. Just income.

Have a nice day.

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seeuski 5 years ago

"Even the Tea Party supports Medicare and Social Security, so..........................."

I haven't seen that sign yet.

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exduffer 5 years ago

GK- Ownership tax, license fee, road fee, bridge fee, turn your head and cough fee. I stand by my numbers. It does not matter what you call it, it matters that it goes out of my pocket.

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trump_suit 5 years ago

Come on See. You are clearly able to surf the Internet. Gou aout and research a few nationwide polls. Most people that affiliate themselves with the Tea Party support both Medicare and Social Security. Quit playing the pure partisan and be realistic.

Here are a couple to get you started.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aLBZwxqgYgwI

http://trueslant.com/rickungar/2010/04/15/what-does-the-tea-party-really-want/

*** - Polls can be skewed. The Tea Party leaders (who are they?) say they would abolish Social Security. You can find as many the other way. The Tea Party has no leadership? It is grass roots, we all think differently......

Ask any senior citzen if they would vote to abolish Social Security or Medicare. Ask veterans if they would abolish the VA,

Go ahead and run Sarah Palin as your Republican or Tea Party nominee for President, that will all but guarantee an Obama win. You would be better of to build some consensus and try a broader tent like Ronald Reagan did. He would never make it in today's Republican party, he was simply too far to the center for their current beliefs.

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

Okay, exduff, I won't argue with "I don't want to pay taxes" but don't blame CDOT when snowplowing stops at 7 pm and the potholes exact another kind of tax when you repair your front end.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years ago

Actually, as all of us most likely voted for all the idiots past & present who cut taxes, added irrelevant programs & just kept spending like drunks at happy hour, we owe it too ourselves as patriots to pay for the mistakes of the past. This is for everyone who doesn't want to leave it for their children, which is what we all want, right? Why shouldn't we pay for voting in people who just kept spending without having the income to keep up with it? It's all our fault; not just the politicians. We elected them and many on both sides are still there.

We just had a decade of tax relief. Now, we need to find a middle ground between the current tax rate & the rates during Clinton's era and raise it that much for a decade. (Since the tax cuts were set to expire, this isn't raising taxes- it's just not lowering them back to the temporary rates.) Use the difference between the low, current rate and the new, middle rate and allocate that money to ONLY pay down the National Debt. Everything else goes back to Pay-Go. In 10yrs, just think what the Debt might be if a whole nation can own up to it's mistakes and take it's medicine as it should. Hard times call for hard measures. Anyone not willing to do this is a lying sack of you-know-what if they then tell you any crap about "look at the Debt we're leaving our kids." Here's your chance to put up or shut up. (And we all know who'll give what excuses because when they said "it's for the kids," they mean only their kids. The heck with yours.)

And why doesn't the Tea Party align with the Constitution Party? They seem to be more in sync with each other than Republicans. Are they so afraid of losing an election than maybe finding enough people in their voting bloc to endorse a non-Republican candidate and build strength over time by sticking to their values instead of compromising them to vote for someone that's "electable?"

Hey- Democrats do it, too! A lot of them feel (at least a few years ago) that Ralph Nader and the Green Party would be better in charge than most Democrat candidates. The problem is..."he's not electable." Well, if enough people all thought this way, maybe a viable 3rd party candidate can rise above the trash.

Sara Gleason said that in a poll, 1 in 5 people identify themselves with the Tea Party. Well, Ross Perot of the Reform Party won 1 in 5 votes in the 1992 election. When's the last time you heard from them? Had the Reform Party had more cohesion, they might have actually gotten more in 1996. Considering if you check out different Tea Party site on the web, they (as Sara mentioned about them being independent thinkers) don't all agree on things. Until they do, I'm betting they all vote for Republicans by default. This is why nobody will ever see the Tea Party as anything more than a faction of the Republican Party; not independents.

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Zed 5 years ago

"Environmentalism has sent all the good jobs overseas."

Wow, that made me laugh. Is this based on an article or a specific study or just a general hunch you have? I have an idea of why everything is produced in Asia and think it has less to do with China being able to dump waste into the land and more to do with workers getting paid a dollar a day.... Our manufacturing base is overseas because you want to buy everything at Walmart at a price that no worker in the US could live off of.

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Zed 5 years ago

The demographics of the tea party are pretty ridiculous and illustrate how it is just a bunch of hype and an opportunity for primarily white men to get angry about other people taking their money. Big surprise that most of the people affiliated with the tea party think Obama is a muslim and out to support blacks instead of white. (Is he really even an US citizen? ;-)

Second thought for the evening: Looking back on the Bush years is not in anyway a free pass for Obama, but you can't help but consider where all of these angry white Americans were when Bush was spending like mad on wars and handing out tax cuts for the ultra wealthy. Think of how that money could have been spent here on domestic programs or even just to bring down our own defecit. How much money have we flushed down the toilet and how many more will be killed because false intelligence told us that Saddam was courting Al Qaeda. At the end of the day has anything we did in Iraq and continue to do there made us safer, absolutely not. Thinking of the lives lost and money pissed away makes me a lot angrier than the cut that our government is taking out of my paycheck. And Fox news did not portray any of the protesters of the Iraq war and the reckless spending abroad in the same way they are presenting the Tea party even though the protest against George Bush and the wars was larger.

Even though I agree with the view that spending needs to be cut, the Tea Party screams hypocrisy to me....

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

I know Exduff doesn't care but, for the record, in 2009 Routt County collected $6,663,755 in DMV fees. Of this $4 million was retained by the county, $1/2 million went to the city, and $1.6 million went to the Highway Users Trust Fund. If Exduff paid $264, about $62 went to CDOT. He also paid $101 of gas taxes so CDOT got $55 and the feds got $46. CDOT's total from Exduff was $117.

Not a bad price to be able to drive anywhere in the state whenever you want in my book.

If the citizens of this state don't band together to fund roadways, who's going to provide them? Obama? The federal American Recovery and Reinvestment Act "stimulus" money has approximately offset the $500 million losses in state funds from Senate Bill 1 (of 97) revenues and the decline in HUTF revenues. Without future ARRA programs, CDOT revenues will plummet while the state confronts costs such as $800 million to replace the I-70 viaduct in Denver.

Cutting taxes without considering how to pay for public infrastructure just doesn't strike me as reasonable, no matter whether a person is labeled Tea Partier, conservative, liberal, independent, Democrat, Republican, or whatever.

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Zed 5 years ago

^ We need more facts in our public discussions like the ones that George is presenting. It is too easy to over simplify a situation and hide behind lame slogans like "Take Back America" and fake celebrities like Palin. The tea party sound bites are good on Fox News, but the reality is much more complex.

Side note on hypocrisy, I like this story about the New Hampshire couple who refused to pay taxes because the government was not "real" and then needed the tax payer funded ambulance to come to their house. Be careful how hard you try to take hack apart the government, because you might need it more than you want to realize.

http://www.wmur.com/news/11311431/detail.html

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exduffer 5 years ago

GK- I do not mind paying taxes to keep up our roads and bridges. What I do mind is our elected officials not doing their jobs and coming out and saying it costs x dollars to maintain the infrastructure so we will have to tax x dollars per gallon. I can see a fee per car added on to it to have a general road fund just so I have the knowledge that if I have to drive anywhere in the state I will have the expectation that the roads will be safe. (2500 of my miles were from a family emergency out of state) How much does a rental car from Hayden pay in taxes to the city where a majority of its time may be spent? Once again it is not the amount of taxes, it is the way we impose and spend them that I believe the majority of the Tea Party members take issue with.

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exduffer 5 years ago

Does anyone remember Routt's greatest tea party revolt? When the school district decided the high school neeed a makeover and said $70 million should do the trick, no plans just ideas but we need the 70 mil. It was soundly defeated. A few months later, lo and behold here are the plans, and guess what it is only going to cost $36 million. If I remember correctly it passed quite easily.

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seeuski 5 years ago

George, you should be careful when aligning yourself with the Alex Jones group.

And trump, Thanks for defining the Tea Party movement for me, I would not know what I should be for or against without liberally run polling on what the grassroots movement is for and against. We are aware of the fact that the liberal media is working in concert with the Obama regime in the attempt to discredit this huge movement as we move towards the November elections. It won't work. And to the continual question, where were you people during the last 8 years? It doesn't matter we are here now. And we aren't going away, sorry. We are standing up for the Country we grew up in and standing against the "fundamental change" to socialism that Obama has us on the path to. My question to those of you using those left wing talking points is, Where are you now that the Government is taking away our Constitutional freedoms when you screamed about it so much during the last 8 years? And.. Where would you stand on these same issues if it were the Republicans doing the same?

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Cooke 5 years ago

See --

Could you tell me what Constitutional liberties we are losing? Are you refering to health care?

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George Krawzoff 5 years ago

The DMV data presented comes from the Colorado Department of Revenue.

How low do you want to sink, See? I have no knowledge of the "Alex Jones Group" and, whatever their politics might be, your arbitrarily associating me with random people is a slimy tactic, even by blog standards.

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seeuski 5 years ago

You posted that garbage George, so the sinking is by your own hand.

Cooke, if you don't know the Constitutional limitations of the Federal Government and are unaware of the laws that are being changed then I can't help you here. But how about for instance, net neutrality? Or the Government takeover of GM and Chrysler? Or the Government's sneaky takeover of student loans? And yes, the usurpation of States rights as it pertains to the health care takeover. I won't even bother going back to the illegal firing of IG Gerald Walpin who was sacked for uncovering OUR tax money going to the personal friends of Obama and not to the betterment of society in general. That may actually be what Obama meant when he promised to use his scalpel on the budgets. And you must be enjoying the Patriot act now that Obama is at the helm. Haven't heard any of the opposition here mention it since the 08 elections, how weird.

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Cooke 5 years ago

Take it easy See -- take a deep breath. I was not making any kind of attack, just looking for some detail in your statement.

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seeuski 5 years ago

Thanks Cooke, I appreciate your concern, I hope that was of help in your search for info.

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seeuski 5 years ago

George, do you think the message you are receiving is being manipulated by the White House? What do you think?

Most transparent White House ever... http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0410/Most_transparent_White_House_ever.html?showall

This never happened while Bush was in charge, as much as he was demonized by this very media who are now the victims here and by Obama. Now lets see how the MSM reports this censorship. Don't forget, you don't know what you don't know. And the WH knows it.

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realfeel 5 years ago

Seeyourselfski,

Quit your whining! You have never paid less taxes then you do now. Your paranoia is destroying any credibility. I am Obama and I know who you are and where I can find you..

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sledneck 5 years ago

yampavalleyboy is right see. I'll be president before Palin.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

MMJ-

I don't exactly understand why you keep arguing with me. I don't have any problem with you smoking as much weed as you want, or ingesting as many marijuana products as you want. Heck, I don't even care if you want to ingest everything else under the moon. The only time I care about the way you live your life or how stupid or smart you are is when it infringes on my life. And we start running into that gray ground right about the time I have to support your life because of your habits, because you have the direct right to do whatever you want, and I have the indirect right to not pay for you to live how you want to. That's it. Our government got messed up by trying to be everything to everyone. If you (not you per se, but anyone) were legally able to smoke weed, but had to make that mortgage, pay your own bills and wouldn't be bailed out if you couldn't, we would both be happy. I didn't mean to imply that you were dumber than me-just that everyone is entitled to their own mistakes.

By the way-the research I did today showed me that THC is the main active ingredient in cannibis, and that CBDs only affect that high. Weed high in THC but low in CBD makes for a "level, clear headed, more energetic high," while weed high in CBDs but low in THC results in "more of a stoned feeling. The mind feels dull and the body feels tired." Clarify your previous statement for me that implied otherwise, because my belief is that drug tests pick up THC and not CBDs. So I guess you could smoke weed regularly, get drug tested for jobs, pass every drug test, and still have a foggy brain. So, strains low in THC but high in CBD could actually allow someone to skirt the system, right? Also, how am I brainwashed, exactly? Because I choose not to use a "medical drug" that you do? Give me a break.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Duke-

I already admitted my mistake. Please take the time to read everything I type before bothering to unneccessarily take up time and space. If you want the attention, here you go-as I already mentioned, GE paid no taxes either. No large corporation does. Yet my mom and dad, who are self-employed, do. Why are 18 year-olds being quoted? Last time I checked, that made you a legal, eligable voter in the United States. I would be willing to bet that anyone who was homeschooled in American history may know what they are talking about with respect to the Vietnam War. Are we now only placing people who lived through certain events in history in charge of the history? If I were to say, "I think we should only allow people who were alive during the Civil War to vote on racial issues," where would we be today? Racial inequality would be better now if that were the situation? I agree that Obama was voted in, and I'm not the "birther" you want me to be. The point is that American citizens pay taxes to cover the financial responsibilities outlined in the Constitution. Not to pay for Nancy's jets, Obama's closing down Manhattan, not to pay for private institutions' solvency, and not to pay for the fact that government policy has created a social inequality to guarantee votes. This movement has little to do with Obama specifically, and more to do with the fact that the average American is already struggling, and can't support any more social, un-Constitutional spending programs that only result in more government agencies. So if you really do feel silly for paying taxes for 40 years, you aren't the only one. But feel free to pay mine next time you want to support the government.

Sara

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Trump-

Don't really give a jellybean about teleprompters...I agree that it's not a big deal-and I never made it one, if you read closely. The point is that the fact that Sarah Palin wrote some notes on her hand is that it seems to diminish her in most of the media, and therefore many Americans' respect for the job she has done and the positions she has held. I only had a five minute speech at the most recent Tea Party, but I had 15 cards. I don't think being over prepared in case she dropped something or had one of those "oh @#$%" moments is worth criticizing someone the way she has been. As far as that interview, there are several leaked backstage videos/blogs/other weird accusations about the editing of that interview that have called the ethics of the interview in question, well, into question. Also, can't anyone ever have an off day? I fondly remember Michelle Obama's quote last week about "both members of Congress" (we can only dream) but I don't really think less of any politician or political figure who has had a long day, and made an obvious mistake. They are flawed too.

Cooke-

I'm sorry. I'm never, ever, ever a sarcastic person, ever. I guess I just don't feel like I should quit being me to make my opinion known online. So if you have something substantial to say, that you can back up, do it. I can't make fun of facts. I can, however, educate you on the history of irony and sarcasm...after all, I went to public school! If you can't deal with sarcasm, or irony, or the facts, just ignore them. I mean, that's Nancy Pelosi's philosophy!

Seriously though folks, I wouldn't want anyone to not post their thoughts because of my sarcasm, but honestly, if they can watch Comedy Central, they can put up with me. After all, I think what goes on in this thread is probably more legit than what goes on in Washington behind those transparent, but still closed, doors. So if I have information that is at odds with your opinion, it's not an attack, it's a conversation. You might not agree with me, but that's the truth. As for the real debate issue, in 2012 let's not tap a moderator who has a vested interest in who wins (in the form of a biography she wrote about Obama). Sarcasm looks better and better, doesn't it?

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

Finally, to everyone else-

I thought that maybe since the Craig Tea Party got so much coverage I thought I'd share the Steamboat Tea Party Experience with you.

First, I was entirely embarassed by singing the National Anthem. Music is not a talent of mine. Quite a few people spoke, beginning with Mr. Dennis Lodwick, and moving into local activists-including me. I spoke about the fact that the United States of America was founded on a dream of liberty. I talked about how houses, cars, purses, and anything else material are only the manifestations of the American Dream. The American Dream is not to own these things, but to have the liberty and ability in life to live the way we want, how we want, and not have undue influence upon our lives, and be able to satisfy these tangible dreams. During my short talk, I outlined my own finances, and the many ways that taxes, fees, taxes, and more taxes were stopping me from getting to my American Dream. We also had a few speakers from the national stage. During our rally, we had people who chose to sit on mainstreet with encouraging posters. There was not one speech that wasn't interupted by a bigrig waving and smiling and cheering us on. I also noticed one younger gentleman specifically who only showed up to take pictures of the signs, didn't pay any attention to any speakers, and left before the "key-note" speakers said a word.

After the rally, I was approached by quite a few individuals. One woman told me that she drove from her second home in Granby just to be here, and we had several families that brought all of their children. One very generous, gracious man gave me his poster, and afterwards I was asked by quite a few poeple to represent them in a public position.

Next, I went to a very well known 1950's style diner downtown. Upon arriving, my boyfriend and I met a very gracious family. I forget exactly what branch of the military the father was serving in, but he had kids between 16 years and 1 month. This gentleman stopped by my table, introduced himself, his wife, and his amazing kids. Next thing I knew, the gentleman who had been taking pictures of signs at the rally was seated in the booth next to me. I shushed my boyfriend, and was able to overhear him describing the scene on the courthouse lawn. He described it to his friends as a "riot," and that he was only doing a public service by taking pictures of the signs the prostestors held. In the meantime, I was looking at a serviceman's family sitting at the bar and a few booths and kept asking myself why the people holding the signs were the rebels.

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Sara Gleason 5 years ago

I'd also like to thank the Pilot for sending that photog to the Steamboat rally. But where was the actual reporter? Heck, I'd have settled for an editorial columnist, even though we all know the way it would have gone. Was construction just too much, or were there so many other things going on in Steamboat that all of those eyes and ears were just eaten up at noon on Thursday, April, 15 (after the mountain closed). I know it's probably just my ego speaking, but WITW was going on that one of your many reporers couldn't cover this event?

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Sara- Looks like a pretty late night(or ridiculously early morning) you had. Listen, I'm not trying to take away your right to ignorance/sheep-minded-ness. I respect your claim that you actually put some research into the things you didn't know about. I must say, you're more impressive than "aichempty" at this point. However, if it's going to take this long for you to garner a response to something I said almost a week ago, this particular conversation might just suffer from a little one-sided-ness. It was by pure happenstance that I stumbled upon your posts this morning and it took every ounce of "give-a-damn" I had, to reply. That being said, let's begin. To clarify; I guess you're confused about drug testing? Well, the limited scientific knowledge I have on the subject leaves me with the impression that the scientific way of deducing whether or not someone uses cannabis, is highly(no pun intended) IN-accurate. The standard "whizz quiz" identifies certain proteins that are only found in the body after THC has been introduced to it. It does not identify the actual THC, nor can it specify ANY kind of a time-frame for ingestion. In other words, a positive result on a THC drug test can NOT differentiate between whether someone was high at work, or at home. Tell me where the justice is in firing someone for "being high at work" when you can't even prove if they were "under the influence" while on the clock. Alcohol, slightly different. And what about pharmaceuticals? It's okay for all you crazy a-holes to take all the chemicals(excuse me, "prescriptions" is the more PC term right?) and live out your lives, right next to all the rest of us, with the full approval of mainstream media and your fellow pharma-junkies? I'm throwing the BS flag! Not necessarily at you. More so at the general attitude(s) that are being pushed by the prohibitionists and those that cut their paychecks. How eff-ed is a society when it pushes all the man-made, concocted chemical crap SO much, that they take the natural healing things on our planet and make them illegal? Pretty eff-ed, in my opinion. Getting back on track.....you're brainwashed because you buy into the lies. You've been told, since you were young I'm sure, that cannabis is evil and strictly for those that are evil and hell-bound. You're brainwashed because you, most likely, take films like "Reefer Madness" seriously. You're brainwashed because you think that society has some right to tell me what I can and can't put in my body. You're brainwashed because you assume that I do just haphazardly put any and every illicit drug into my body if it's made available to me. Unless you count alcohol, tobacco and coffee, cannabis is the only "drug" that I've ever done. But, according to the gateway drug theory, I should be on crack cocaine, meth, heroin, PCP, speed and/or glue-sniffin' by the end of the month. And if you buy all that, I've got a bridge I'd like to show ya.....

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

And in a mostly unrelated matter, here's a link to the censored South Park episode. To hell with censorship!! What is this, China???

http://www.xepisodes.com/southpark/episodes/1406/201.html

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sledneck 5 years ago

MMJ, As I read her words I find the opposite. She does not think society has a right to tell you what to put in your body and neither do I. She does not care, neither do I. She does not sound "brain-washed" at all. In fact she sounds as coherent and polite as can be.

"to hell with censorship"... Amen!

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

Listen, I know there's a few of you out there that would love nothing better than if I just shut up about the whole cannabis thing. Well, I hate to pee in your cheerios, but it's probably not gonna happen. If Muslim douche bags can get one of my most favorite shows censored because it offends them, then I'm never shutting up about cannabis. Not in a million frigin' years my friend!

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blue_spruce 5 years ago

okay, you heard it here first:

PALIN 2012! you go girl!

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seeuski 5 years ago

sled said exactly what I was going to say about Sara's post. It is obvious from the response to Sara's post who seems brainwashed and who wants to limit the rights of someone to feel differently about, of all things, mmj or pot smoking. Certainly people would not argue that we all must use the stuff or we are racists or something, would they? I say that because I read such posts on the forum in a different string.

Sara, I too witnessed the freak taking pictures of the signs, we actually made eye contact because he looked so suspicious to me and he caught my attention. I and others were on the lookout for trouble makers, especially after the left wing Teacher started the web talk about infiltrating Tea Parties with bogus hateful signs. Hearing that he was describing this gathering as a riot is a laugh and shows the extent to which our detractors will lie about this movement in order to discredit it. We have to be aware of what we are up against even when it may come from a Republican like Lindsey Graham, who is now warning of right wingers in the Tea Party movement. Lindsey Graham just happens to be in the sights of the Tea Party movement for his politics, especially his stance on the AGW fraud. BTW, great job on your short speech and your posts here.

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seeuski 5 years ago

mmj, These Muslims did not get it censored for that reason, it is because of death threats. Ever heard of the Van Gogh murder? The punk that runs the revolutionMuslim website where the threat was made is an American convert to Islam and we have seen a lot of that recently in the news. Those warnings of Islamists targeting fair skin English speaking converts was made soon after 9/11 and we are now seeing the successes from that terrorist program. But of course under this Administration there is no war on terrorism and as Obama said after the FT. Hood shooting by an avowed Jihadist, we should not jump to conclusions. To date there are no sounds from this Administration as to what their investigation has revealed and several Lawmakers are having to subpoena the Government for info. Bottom line is we are at war with Jihadist Muslims for our freedoms here in the USA. Your freedom to see Southpark uncensored is now lost in that war.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

You're joking right? You somehow assume that I'm telling everyone to start using cannabis? Where in the hell have I ever said that? Why don't you try sticking to the facts? The only thing I've ever been an advocate of is ending the prohibition against cannabis. Stop the wasteful drug war and start focusing on real crime. I want my crime fighting dollar to go towards more important things than locking up cannabis users.

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mmjPatient22 5 years ago

And c'mon....why were the death threats issued? ....maybe....because ....it was offensive enough to someone, for that someone to threaten the life of someone else. Gimmie a frigin break.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 12 months ago

Seattle cartoonist launches "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

After Comedy Central cut a portion of a South Park episode following a death threat from a radical Muslim group, Seattle cartoonist Molly Norris wanted to counter the fear. She has declared May 20th "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day." http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=313170

Sounds like fun. With all due respect to the Prophet Mohammed (Propeller Beanie Upon Him).

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 12 months ago

We're going to need some rough guidelines posted up. Are stick figures acceptable? I'm afraid I'm not much of an artist. That being said, do they have strict rules of admiration for their Prophet? Are you only allowed to respectfully draw the image of the Prophet if you are endowed with a wicked talent for drawing? Are you allowed to make corrections?

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seeuski 4 years, 12 months ago

mmj, I am trying to figure out where you are on this problem. Death threats were issued by Jihadists towards the Southpark guys and Comedy Central has censored the show. Do you agree that we should succumb to threats here in America and lose our freedoms to terrorists? Southpark has lampooned every other religion without compromise and we want to continue to live in a free country right? Or are we becoming Europe? That continent is being Islamatized and many areas are living under Sharia law. I hope we don't take our freedoms for granted and think it would never happen here in the USA.

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seeuski 4 years, 12 months ago

This video may help explain what is fueling the Tea Party movement. We are seeing the Anarchy in Greece today that this video warns about, are we headed in the same direction?

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 12 months ago

S&P downgrades Greece to junk status http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3myVNxY7eto&pos=1

Let's see: massive liabilities run up by socialist hacks bent on funding wealth redistribution through the imposition of tax burdens that discourage growth.

I'm sure that could never happen here.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 12 months ago

housepoor:

We don't have one. Our mission is lower taxes, limited government, & free markets. Your link is irrelevant.

Nice try hijacking the thread, though.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 12 months ago

see- First of all, "terrorists" and those that take those kind of stances on issues, can all go talk a short walk off of a long cliff. There's no room in this world for such malicious religious views. The amount of killing that has been done in the name of some "higher power" is staggering and sickening. As ironic as it may sound, I have little patience for people that are that intolerant. Every bit of the post from 4:32pm was written in pure sarcasm and mockery of the ideals that inspired those death threats. (Next time I'll have to make sure to label my attempts at humor.) I have ZERO respect for that brand of extremism. I am one of the millions of South Park fans that was/is completely and utterly infuriated by the censorship that was allowed to take place. I mean, what the hell is this, China?!?! I'm a veteran of our armed forces and I took that as a personal blow to the founding principles of our nation. Matter of fact-ly speaking, my blood pressure is on the rise again just thinking about it. So, enough of that for now. Secondly, I'm all for freedom of religion. I can't rightly claim that I truly believe any religion that has been written down by man, claims of divine origin or not. In most religions, the deity is held as infallible and we(humans) are recognized as fallible. That being said, and knowing what most people succumb to when given great power(say, scribing the bounds of a new religion to be practiced universally), I just don't have the faith to accept that the message from the deity has maintained 100% of its integrity. In other words, have you ever heard of the game telephone? A message originates with one person and gets passed, person to person, until it reaches the last person in line. Variably, the message will differ depending on the number of people involved in passing the message. Things can become pretty humorous when enough people are involved. I think about this and begin to feel the tug of doubt on my heart. Then my mind chimes in and seals the deal. Long story short, for me at least; religion is silly, for the most part. But killing, for religion, is completely unthinkable and WAY beyond reprehensible.

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seeuski 4 years, 12 months ago

So where does Jihadism, that we are at war with, land in this or are you being general about all faiths? I can only see the politically correct actions when it is Islam that is offended, it seems just fine that Jews and Christians, for example, are constant victims of the ACLU and other groups like CAIR with the complicity of our Government especially when one of the Presidents military advisers just told a joke about Jews in public. Whew, if the butt was against Islam Obama would have fired the guy in a NY second. But on another note.... here is what is behind the Cap and Trade bill and who has been planning on getting REALLY RICH on our dime. This would be huge news if the last POTUS was the man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWrgdL...

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housepoor 4 years, 12 months ago

not trying to hijack your thread.....as an independent I am fiscally conservative but have hard time voting republican because of the religious right having such a large voice in the party. Lets face it most tea party members will vote republican. The tea party is for less government intervention but has no opinion on the republicans continuing to interfere in their wifedaughterssisters life and try and force their own religious beliefs on the nation and the world if they could. So many independents find themselves torn between voting with their pocket book(less taxes, free market) and their conscious. So if I believe in a woman’s right to choose but also lower taxes and smaller government….who do vote for? Which issue has a greater impact on society?

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 12 months ago

Seriously, WTF? Was I really all that vague? What exactly do you need spelled out for you? Let me see if I can be a little more clear for you. I'm not a big fan of religion. I'm especially not a big fan of religions that preach acceptable violence. However, this is not to say that I believe in absolute, 100%, unequivocal non-violence. I believe in, and have been trained in, self defense and will not hesitate to put a quick stop to an already violent situation. I don't believe in starting fights, just finishing them. I believe that religion is a way to control a great number of people and I, personally, choose to not submit myself to any religion. That's not to say that I am moral-less, or even that morality derives its validity from religion. I do my best to reciprocate respect, even prematurely, and I try to be patient with those that are disrespectful and impatient. I don't think death threats are any way to go about things.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 12 months ago

housepoor:

Sound & fury signifying nothing. It's settled law. The most the GOP can hope to accomplish is to limit federal funding of the procedure. If that offends your "conscious" [sic] sufficiently to vote for the Obamas/Reids/Pelosis of the world, then you are categorically not fiscally conservative - contrary to any lip service you pay.

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seeuski 4 years, 12 months ago

I understand where you stand personally on how religion effects your life, but that was not the topic or the question so I will move on.

housepoor, You are creating fear in your life over the abortion issue for nothing as most liberals do. The Republicans held the White House and both houses of Congress for many years as we are reminded here often, when was Roe v Wade assaulted? There is no reason for you to concern yourself over abortion when we are losing our Country to the New World Order. Heck, in a few years the UN may decide to impose Chinese style restrictions on how many children an American family will be allowed to have. Save the planet don't you know.

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Brian Kotowski 4 years, 12 months ago

Great column from Mike Adams, which begins thusly:

"Dear Revolution Muslim:

I am offended by your recent threats against the creators of South Park. I am offended specifically that the creators of South Park were threatened with death and that I received no similar threat. I have made statements against Mohammad that are far more offensive. What can I do to get you to threaten me with death - aside from calling you on the carpet as effeminate and cowardly?

Mike Adams adams_mike@hotmail.com "

And he's not even warmed up yet. Go ye, and read of it. http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeAdams/2010/04/26/how_to_offend_barbarians_and_promote_diversity?page=full&comments=true

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MrTaiChi 4 years, 12 months ago

Roe, Wade, I don't care how they got here. Send them back.

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Sara Gleason 4 years, 12 months ago

MMJ-

Sorry, I have other stuff to do. And yes, it was a late night. Guess that happens sometimes when you have to work Saturdays and have other obligations. I’m sorry I can’t just sit around to respond to you. You seem to have confused me with someone else. I am just telling you what I found in my research that directly contradicts your statement about the chemicals in marijuana. Again, I don’t care if you smoke as much weed as you want. Believe it or not, I’ve tried smoking weed before. And I don’t like it. So calling me ignorant for not smoking weed seems a little biased to me…because I’m sure that you believe that everyone should just be entitled to do what they want, right? And I’m the brainwashed, ignorant sheep here? Because I tried something, don’t like it, and don’t care whether you do as long as it doesn’t infringe on me? Do me a favor and look up the definitions of every adjective you called me and tell me whether you really think I fit any of those. And I’m sorry if you don’t care enough to respond. As for other prescriptions out there, you’re probably right. Never said you weren’t. Here’s my question though: Does the fact that you are medicating with a federally illegal drug still mean you are medicating, the same as it is when an anxiety sufferer finds relief with wellbutrin, or how someone with a sore throat can cure it with cleocin? So when you allow anyone to get a medical marijuana card with little or no supervision, and allow the people with it to sell the drug to their buddies the second they leave the dispensary (I see it multiple times every day with my own eyes), are you discouraging overmedication, or encouraging it? The difference is a respect for the laws that our governing body sees fit to enact. Sick of these laws not representing you? Maybe you should check out the next tea party to protest a government establishment (on both sides of the aisle) that doesn’t really embody your liberty to live your life the way you want to.

By the way, if you would like links to the many places I verified the marijuana chemical research on, just let me know. There are more than a dozen, so I guess I can claim to have done research.

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Sara Gleason 4 years, 12 months ago

PS-I have found South Park in poor taste on more than one occasion, actually, almost every single time I've ever watched it, but I think that censoring this to submit to a radical sect of Islam is wrong. I actually find this very disturbing on a certain level, since I firmly believe that a society's art reflects much more than ongoing asthetic standards. I really believe that by putting one aspect of culture off limits, we restrict free speech. For example, you've all heard of "product-placement," but I heard the craziest thing on the radio today. There is actually a documented move toward "belief-placement" in TV shows and movies. Like, for example, recycling-and I guess that anyone who doesn't agree to, say, throw the can in the recycling bin instead of the garbage on camera actually doesn't get parts. I think it's really disturbing how "mainstream" our pop art has become, because it really reflects the rejection of free speech.

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Sara Gleason 4 years, 12 months ago

seeyouski-

I think that guy's problem honestly had more to do with an inability to grasp the correct word than the fact that he was trying to undermine the tea party movement. I don't think anyone anywhere ever could have called that a riot. And thanks on the speech. I notice you didn't compliment my extraordinary singing voice. To be honest, after we got home, my boyfriend told me he loves me even if I'm tone deaf.

Housepoor-

Have to say that I really empathize with your moniker! I agree that so many people are torn between whether to vote for the guy with the R or the guy with the D. I agree that the parties have made it impossible to decide who is the lesser evil. On the one hand, you have a Democratic party emphasizing a socially liberal agenda based on entitlements to welfare, abortion, tons more social programs than you really want to accept, and on the other hand you have a Republican party pushing a movement against abortion, to demand prayer in schools, and people who don't want evolution taught. It's a hard decision to make, but here's the truth: both parties have taken such stands because they think that enforcing social policy will get them votes. Social policy, be it Planned Parenthood, prayer in school, cash for clunkers, or the teaching of evolution is inevitably a limit on the liberty that all Americans should enjoy. So when I vote, I think about the things that our government should be enforcing, like national defense, the responsible use of tax dollars, the protection of Americans' constitutional rights, the promotion of capitalism, and the encouragement of liberty. And I vote for the candidate who most aligns with me on the issues that the government has the legitimacy to enforce. And I would really advise you from taking any one person's tea party stance from a news source like CNN...they didn't even report on the woman and her boyfriend who were beaten to a pulp for wearing Sarah Palin pins. All news in this country is one-sided, so make sure you get lots of it-from lots of different places.

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seeuski 4 years, 12 months ago

Well, Well,Well, now we know how the Dems will keep power into the foreseeable future, HB2499 is being debated on the House floor right now. The bill will have Puerto Rico vote on one question, are you happy with Puerto Rico's status? Then, once the the people say NO, then they will vote on status but with no option to remain as anything other than the 51st state. That gives them 6 Congressmen and 2 Senators in the houses. This vote is a trick to give the Democrats the majority in Congress for the long run. Puerto Ricans have voted against statehood 4 times and the most recent being in 1998. The difference from then to now is that on the ballot was the option to not become the 51st state. That option won out. Puerto Ricans have voted against statehood 4 times why are the Dems pushing this now? The first honorable Dem was Gutierrez from Chicago who admonished this trick, he was a supporter of the vote when Newt Gingrich authored the last vote but as he said that vote included the option for the status as it stands, that option won't be in this vote. They are using the TN plan plan for Puerto Rican statehood.

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seeuski 4 years, 11 months ago

If Bush had been the POTUS and did nothing for two weeks while the Gulf of Mexico was being devastated the news media and Kanye West would be in a derangement syndrome by now. I want to know why Obama let this thing drain for 12 days before he started to act. I want to know who blew up the platform. There is no way this thing just fired up on it's own, lets go Obama do your POTUS job and get it under control.

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Troutguy 4 years, 11 months ago

Excerpt from the Denver Post on April 27th. " US Coast Guard crews raced to protect the Gulf of Mexico coastline Monday the 26th...." Funny, that doesn't seem to add up to 2 weeks of Govt. inaction. For the first few days after the leak began, BP first said there was no oil leaking at all, then downplayed how much oil was leaking. They told the Govt., "hey, we got this under control". In April, 2008, under POTUS Bush, the Mineral Management Service decided to exempt certain projects in the Gulf from filing a comprehensive blowout plan in case of just such a disaster. When POTUS Bush first took office, he opposed requiring offshore drilling companies to install an aucoustic shut off valve that could have prevented this oil spill. Cost to oil companies, $500,000. Deregulation, priceless.

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Cooke 4 years, 11 months ago

See -- Your comment an Obama's inaction is curious. I wonder, what do you think he should have done in these "two weeks". Seems to me, and I have been following the situation pretty closely, that BP and the feds are doing everything that can be done, but there is no way to quickly contain a slick this size. Because of weather and tides, there was no way that this thing could ever have been contained in booms. Dispersants are dodgy at best since we really don't know their effect on the environment. Burning is inefficient and ecologically unsound for the amount of smoke produced. This 40' tall funnel is being rushed through, and a second well is already being drilled.

What would McCain or Bush have done differently?

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George Krawzoff 4 years, 11 months ago

SOTUS McCain and POTUS Bush would've blamed it on POTUS Clinton's sexual proclivities? Darn his drilling and spilling!

Funny that unbridled capitalism is the solution to all our ills but, when BP screws up, losing the Gulf Coast is POTUS Obama's fault. He's also supposed to fix it without spending any tax dollars.

By the way, what does "POTUS" add except a slightly nasty tone? Sure, I get that it's a correct acronym but never in my life did I fail to recognize that when I read Eisenhower, Nixon, Kennedy, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr., or Obama that I was reading about the POTUS unless the context clearly indicated otherwise. Does this seem disrespectful to anybody else?

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seeuski 4 years, 11 months ago

"BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics." "On top of that, the oil giant has spent millions each year on lobbying — including $15.9 million last year alone — as it has tried to influence energy policy."

Why do other Countries have safety valves on their off shore sites and we don't? I can't figure it out, umm I'm sure the lobbyists don't influence that sort of thing in energy policy. Naaa.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html#ixzz0nHDnq7fC

As unreasonable as the media was during Katrina in blaming Bush, my earlier comments were meant as sarcasm in blaming Obama. The bate was set and the fish bit. But we do need energy policy that requires safety valves.

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George Krawzoff 4 years, 11 months ago

Count me the second biggest fan for your clever sarcasm then. I could've sworn you were a real Obama hater.

I guess those energy companies can spot a winner!

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seeuski 4 years, 11 months ago

No, Obama acted perfectly according to his record. He acted a week later because he didn't have all the information yet, unlike the case with the Mass Professor and the white Cop, who he said acted stupidly, although he didn't have all the information yet. What I am saying is that energy policy is being effected by Lobbyists for BP who gave the most money over the last few years to the POTUS. You don't like POTUS? What was Bush called by the left? Anyone remember?

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George Krawzoff 4 years, 11 months ago

Bush was in office for 8 years and was called everything under the sun. What's your point?

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Troutguy 4 years, 11 months ago

Lobbyists will hedge their bets and get behind whichever party / candidate that they see as having the best chance to win. Had McCain / Palin been the front runner, they would have gotten the bulk of campaign contributions (bribes) from banks, oil, mining, Pharm, etc. Obama / Biden were the front runners this time around, therefore they get the bulk of the bribe money. This is why our two party system is broken. Each side is just as easily bribed by big business lobbyists. I believe there were 4 lobbyists for every senator bribing their way into Washington during the recent financial meltdown, making sure that any type of regulation would have no real teeth to them. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Welcome the the United States of America, where we have the best Government money can buy.

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exduffer 4 years, 11 months ago

In Bakersfield, CA this past week, with massive budget cuts on the horizon guess what the elected school board's biggest dilemma is? Whether to have a day honoring Harvey Milk or Ronald Reagan.

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sledneck 4 years, 11 months ago

We don't need an energy "policy". We do not need immigration "policy". We don't need an environmental "policy". We do not need a financial "policy" for Wall St. or any other new "policy" from the crooks in DC.

What we need in this land is ENFORCEMENT !!! Enforce some of the damn laws we already have. Stop the "selective" enforcement which is akin to bribery, favoritism and corruption.

If one new law is needed in America today it would read as follows..."for every new law (policy) 3 old laws must be repealed"!

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Sara Gleason 4 years, 11 months ago

Troutguy-

Claiming reponsibility for the coast guard showing up is like the president claiming he saved your life when the firemen showed up after you called 911. They are first responders, and while I commend their bravery and heroics, Obama had nothing to do with them responding to a call for help. The true fact is that he used a tragic accident (one that cost 11 Americans their lives, by the way), to further politicize the issue of off shore drilling, and further demonize oil companies. Also, our coast guard is supposed to protect our coast, not MEXICO's, and not 6 days after the accident.

SeeuSki-

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. There was a gentleman who was on this rig when it blew and was friend with the 11 lost men who was interviewed on the Mark Levin Show on April 30. This is available for free online. I really think that this was nothing more than a tragic accident.

Cooke-

Actually there has been a plan in place since 1994 for a huge off-shore spill. The federal government's responsibility was to have several specially made booms available in the region in case of an emergency. There were none there. The President contacted the manufacturer of the booms (specially designed to pull oil away from the slick and burn it when it was pulled to a far enough distance), and was rush-shipped one boom from Illinois to Lousiana, because that's all they had in stock. So...either Clinton never funded the plan and got the federally guaranteed emergency supplies there, Bush used them to deal with the Gulf Oil Spill that didn't happen, or Obama's people didn't verify that all the guaranteed supplies were in place. I don't think that this was an intentional environmental disaster, but someone dropped the ball, and it is Obama's responsibility to make sure that the federal disaster plans are ready to be enacted. Period.

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trump_suit 4 years, 11 months ago

Sure, let's deregulate everything. No more laws = no more crime.

No traffic laws, no mining laws, no drilling laws, you own it, whatever you want to do.

No pollution laws, no gun laws, anything goes. No more government, lets return to the Days of the Old West.

Gotta keep that Military so we can defend ourseleves though. We need bigger better guns.

No more drug laws, snake oil works, no more Dr. Laws they know whats right. No more schools, kids teach themselves. No more border control, no more FBI, Need the CIA, they are chasing bad guys. No more illegal drugs, what do we care if you tweak on Meth

No more cops, no more firemen, no more inspectors or building codes.

No more medicare, no more social security, no more medicade or unemployment, you are on your own.

What good are the courts get rid of em" Congress is a huge waste of money, No more POTUS or City Council, No more city gov't no more car tax, no more road fixin'

Sounds like a perfect world to me sled.

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mmjPatient22 4 years, 11 months ago

How 'bout we just go nuts and let the police state go COMPLETELY insane? To say that things have changed since 9/11, is the understatement of the century.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-05-08/news/os-suspicious-package-church-20100508_1_bomb-squad-markham-woods-road-suspicious

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John Fielding 4 years, 11 months ago

.

Unfortunately the worst enemy of respect for the law and of enforcement of the law is the fact that there are too many laws and so many of them are unreasonable.

Laws have been made to enrich special interests, to promote particular belief systems, to extend governmental control to areas it had been wisely excluded from, to impose community planing conditions by small but very active groups, and dozens of other types of abuses and manipulations.

Sunset provisions for every law please. The ones we really need will be renewed easily.

And retiring 3 old laws for each new one would be a good policy for a while, especially at the Federal level, say for the next one thousand laws, or till the volume is reduced by 50% or so. It would sure make our lawmakers pay attention to what is on the books

At a local level we should also implement a review and consolidation policy. If the scope of local laws is small enough that the reasonably well informed citizen can be familiar with it all, it would be easy to maintain support and participation.

.

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Nick List 4 years, 11 months ago

seeuski you offer a lot of criticism on everything. I was hoping you could outline your ideal America. Also I was wondering about you personally, do you collect social security, or will you when you become eligible, have you ever used the city bus, or driven on a road, have you ever had a pick-nick at a city park. Do you enjoy the Mountain or Rocky Mountain National Park? Did you go to a public school, do you go to church. I think you know where I am going with this. As for me I love paying my taxes, sure a lot of tax income is spent in ways that I don't agree with but that is the way it works. Personally I don't think that people like Warren Buffet should be paying a lower percentage of his income (as a whole) than most of the middle class. I just wonder in terms of taxation what is fair to you. What services are the responsibility of the government (state or federal) and what services should be provided by oneself and private business? (please don't tell me about the 10th amendment)
Also I think you might not fully understand Cap and Trade or Cap and Tax as you call it. In the 1990 Clean Air Act, Cap and Trade was used to cut down the emissions of sulfur dioxide, the program was extremely successful. The future of energy is not in oil and coal, China knows this so does Spain, South Korea, Brazil, Japan, India. To make the switch to renewable energy a marketplace has to be established, stability is required for people to want to invest. I believe that the governments role is to establish the market, lay out the rules and then back off. The only role the government should have is that of a referee, something that has been clearly missing for decades. (yes I am saying smart regulation is good.) We need jobs in this country, they will not come from construction (that bubble popped) they will not come from IT (also popped) manufacturing is struggling. Renewable energy as well as infrastructure innovation and improvement will get us going again. You know the old saying "You have to spend money to make money." I would much rather spend the hundreds of billions used to buy oil, to create jobs. I would much rather have spent the money in Iraq and Afghanistan in America. I am in South Kore right now where we have 26,000 U.S. soldiers, I would like to use those resources in America. (yes it's more complicated). Sorry to rant, but I offered some solutions instead of speculation and negativity. So I look foreword to your response. P.S. Do you have nightmares about socialists? Because you seem very scared.

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seeuski 4 years, 11 months ago

shredder, Our POTUS has been a member of several Socialist organizations and is involved with a group that is working on forcing our industry and commerce to pay taxes to a private entity, ie. the Chicago Climate Exchange, if you think that is a good thing we are on different planets not just on different sides of this one. And I am a Constitutional Conservative which should answer all your above questions regarding taxes and what I expect from the Federal Government. Is it okay if I ride through Trail Ridge rd this summer or do I need your permission?

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John Fielding 4 years, 11 months ago

.

You two are both right about some of your most important points.

The best investment in the future of our country is to free us of our unhealthy levels of dependence first from foreign energy sources and second from fossil fuels.

It seems some stimulus will help that process, thus the Cap and Trade. Theoretically it is a good thing for a good reason, but it remains to be seen if it can work as intended.

If it is like almost every governmental sponsored program it will be infiltrated with corruption, if not from the start then soon after. The amount will be proportional to the volume of money involved, in this case billions could easily be siphoned away and directed to crony's sham companies or Swiss accounts. The makeup of the proposed leadership is not confidence inspiring.

Another wise investment for our future is to undo the decline of our military, especially the Navy that now has about half the ships most analysts consider appropriate, and the Air Force whose average aircraft is at least one generation (25 years) old.

Maintaining the strength of the champion of liberty and human rights will benefit the entire free world, and keep some of it from joining the realm of dictators and zealots.

And military manufacturing is largely domestic and involves many highly skilled and well compensated positions (as well as its' share of corruption).

The world is an increasingly dangerous place, we need our military both for defense of free peoples and help to those affected by disasters.

.

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Troutguy 4 years, 11 months ago

We already spend more on our military than the next 45 highest spending countries combined. The U.S. accounts for 48% of the world's total military spending. The U.S. spends 10 times more money on military than Russia, 6 times more than China. How much is enough? How about the F-22 fighter. Last summer, the House Armed Services Committee voted to spend $369 million dollars for a dozen more of these jets, even though the Pentagon said they don't even want them.

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John Fielding 4 years, 11 months ago

.

Should we really believe the figures from Russia and China are fully disclosed to our analysts?

Have these figures been adjusted for what actual purchasing power is in China?

Each of those two countries is involved is active expansion of its capabilities. The US is continuing a decline. Who is comfortable with that?

Russia is now experiencing a resurgence of Soviet era expansionist tendencies, fueled by massive energy export wealth. The recent turning off of pipelines to Europe was an example of an exercise it its power.

China is seeking more influence on global politics, powered by rapid economic expansion based in modernization and export. Among their exports are nuclear technology to despotic regimes. Among their imports are pirated software and military technology. Much of the most sophisticated hacking of the Pentagon is traced to China.

Their anti satellite missile tests give an indication of the threats of the future. Another concern is capability to create a massive electromagnetic pulse directed at US electronics via tactical nuclear missiles in the atmosphere. Would we respond with a nuclear strike on their nation? Would we even have the capability to maintain communications in our nation to decide what to do?

And this does not even address the active war with radical Islamic terrorists. Who among all the above are friends to Liberty? Putin's henchmen who invaded Georgia? The Neo-Communist Chinese? The radical Muslims preach that liberty is evil, devised to tempt the weak to their destruction.

We will be well advised to continue to have the strongest, most modern military on the planet. We are the last best hope for freedom and human rights and can maintain that beacon only through strength and its righteous exercise.

.

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canyonwind 4 years, 11 months ago

Blue Spruce

Cari Hermasinski = Tea Party...?

Her behavior over the past year re: SB700 could have fooled me!

Cari Herasinski is a Republican, Ran as a physical conservative which plays well in Colorado and she was right about SB700, Voting on issues is a good idea. As far as the Tea party go's it is good to know she supports that movement rather than some group that could care less about Colorado. She is also on the side of Arizona and not the simple minded Northeast media on their Progressive Immigration Law. The law mirrors the Federal law that is not enforced so that Obama's pals in Chicago will have lots of cheap labor that can't vote.or complane about the $5.00 an hr wage their paid

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seeuski 4 years, 11 months ago

Not done just yet. This video pretty much explains the sentiment of us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=253PiA...

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