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mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

No, mtroach is right. Talking to you about this subject is a completely futile effort.

September 26, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Oscar (anonymous) says...

Apparently the SP&T has not been following the results of undercover investigations of California dispensaries showing clearly that these establishments are doling out marijuana to any pot head that walks in, coughs a few times, tells them now much he's in pain, and requests a few lids. No problem, here's a month's supply. Do we really want to follow California's lead and become an attraction for pot heads all over the country. I think not. We need severe restrictions on these dispensaries. I think anyone who gets medical marijuana should have a doctor's prescription.

September 20, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Troutguy (anonymous) says...

While we're at it, we should bring back alcohol prohibition. Do we really want to become an attraction for drunks. Maybe sell cigarettes by prescription only. Why are so many people afraid of marijuana. Compared to booze and smokes, weed is about as harmful as a glazed donut.
Annual Alcohol deaths in U.S. ---- 85,000
Annual tobacco deaths in U.S. --- 435,000
Annual aspirin, Ibuprofen,etc. deaths---7,600
Annual marijuana deaths in U.S.---0
Come on people. Open your eyes and see what are the dangerous drugs in our society.
As a nation, we spend $7.6 billion keeping marijuana illegal. In 2003, 755,000 Americans were incarcerated for marijuana possession. And yet there seems to be no less supply of pot on our streets.

September 20, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blue_spruce (anonymous) says...

The "war on drugs" is a complete fiasco. Just like prohibition, it fuels the black market and therefore violent crime. We need to remove the black market from the equation (and the billions of dollars it creates for violent criminals including the Taliban!) and treat the problem head on. It is a sickness that we can only reasonably confront if we regulate it and control it. WHAT WE HAVE DONE UP UNTIL NOW IS A COMPLETE FAILURE. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

September 20, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

callguinness (anonymous) says...

Oscar -
The dispensaries are just selling marijuana, just like a pharmacy is just selling narcotics. In order to buy these items you have to have Rx from a doctor. Not just anyone can walk in and buy the stuff, basically I don't see the Marijuana dispensaries as anything different than a pharmacy.

September 20, 2009 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Hey Oscar, just in case some one wanted to follow all of the results for these UNDERCOVER investigations into the dispensaries in CA, where would they be best to look first? I would love to pour over the alleged information about dispensaries operating as nothing more than some street-corner-standin'-dope-dealer.
You seem to be another properly groomed sheep that's well versed in the propaganda that your government has supplied you with. Had you done ANY of your own research before puking out your "opinion" about this article, you would have known that there is not a dispensary in the nation that will GIVE medical marijuana to any ol' Joe Blow with a complaint. Medicine is not dispensed until the patient produces his/her STATE ISSUED medical marijuana license. A state issued medical marijuana license is not issued to a patient until the state's Department of Health receives an ORIGINAL application form with a signature from a DOCTOR that endorses the patient's NEED for this particular brand of medicine.
You people out there that just spit out the same old GARBAGE about the "dangers" of marijuana and how it's a "gateway" drug that just leads you down a path of death, destruction and devil-worship.......YOU people need to hit the brakes for a second and take a look around. If you don't see much, there's a good chance your head is going the wrong way through your own digestive system(decided to keep it G-rated, despite my fury over this issue).
People are starting to not listen to the "wisdom" of old. They're beginning to think for themselves and they're discovering that there have been a lot of lies fed to them by their government. And to quote a favorite movie of mine, "...and they're VERY pissed-off."

September 20, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justice4all (anonymous) says...

If it is truely a necesary drug, is legal and necessary, then let it be dispensed by a licensed pharmacy.

September 20, 2009 at 9:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Scott_Wedel (Scott Wedel) says...

The City would appear to be undercutting their own free speech argument. If the dispensary is to be given rules under which they are allowed to operate in SB then how can the City then claim the business is illegal and not worthy of constitutional protections? Makes no sense.

Second, a marijuana leaf is not illegal speech. Some drywall contractor that wanted publicity could call himself MJ's Drywall with a company logo of a marijuana leaf.

September 20, 2009 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

What a fantastic editorial. Thank YOU!!

The council will be amending the ordinance, or lawsuits will come.

Oscar, when you refer to the measurement that marijuana is sold in as a "lid".....you date yourself and throw all credibility out the window. Thanks for adding a humorous comment to the section. It did little more than make people chuckle.

September 21, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

2ndhomeowner (anonymous) says...

It seems to me this debate is really about those who want marijuana use to be legalized and those who don't. The statistics on those who have a prescription would not support one store, let alone all the new ones. It is likely a number of people are hoping the stores present opportunities for easier and even cheaper supplies - and/or that doctors will be more accommodating with prescriptions. Otherwise, what difference does it make? Pharmacies have controls on supplies coming in and going out - I wonder what controls will exist on marijuana coming in or grown, and what is sold via prescription?

September 21, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

So, how would you feel if someone wanted to sell "male enhancement" products next door to the MMJ dispensary and insisted on having an erection displayed on the sign?

Some things are simply offensive to the general public, and the City has a vested interest in barring them from public display.

Take what you've got and be glad it's decriminalized. Can't you just do that and stop short of insisting that it be baked into the brownies served at Strawberry Park Elementary School?

September 21, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

2ndhomeowner....must be nice.
Coming from someone that hasn't gone through the whole process and has exactly ZERO first hand experience with the current system, you sure do seem to have a lot of firm opinions and beliefs about it all.
You are correct in ass-uming that most of the "legalize it" crowd would love to see lower prices on our medicine. I would venture a guess that most people in our crowd do NOT own a second, or maybe even their first, home. I don't. However, if our medicine was slightly more economically feasible, maybe, more of us would be afforded that opportunity. Due to the black market that has been created for this drug, in large part because of our government's policies, some of us are forced to choose between our medicine and phone bills from month to month. Realizing that some of you might not see that point in the same light that someone who medicates this way would, I feel the need to explain further.
What if you had some of these same regulations, stigmas and taboos revolving around some of the medication in your medicine cabinet? What if aspirin was held in the same regard? How would you feel if you were in our position? When's the last time you felt like you had to fight for something that you felt should be one of your rights? Honestly, have any of you "nae-sayers" tried to walk a mile in our shoes?

September 21, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

2ndhomeowner (anonymous) says...

I have lived with "chronic pain" for over five years but many medicines are now available at pharmacies for $4 a month. There are many choices to help - I seriously doubt that smoking marijuana is any better than taking tramadol or similar. Many chronic pain sufferers take their pills and live an active life, can drive, go to work, etc. I wonder if one can smoke or injest enough marijuana to help with the pain but still be able to go to work and balance a spreadsheet, drive your kids to school, or go for a long bike ride. Again, this is likely about something else, not pain relief or commercial laws.

September 21, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Once again, your ignorance precedes you. You've either thought up or been told all these things about "potheads" that are simply not true. The views you present are akin to those that were paramount in films like Reefer Madness, assuming you've seen all of your government's propaganda. It appears obvious to me that you've never even experienced the blessing of being medicated with marijuana. If I am wrong, I would love to hear from you just how much experience you have with this substance, other than reading about it or hearing about it third-hand. It's very easy to go through life and repeat the things that other people say. If you can get enough people to believe something you've told them, it must be true, right?
I challenge you, sir or ma'am, to discover the truth for yourself. Do your own research on the subject. Research the internet for connections between our forefathers and cannabis. Google, "marijuana as medicine, food, fuel, fabric or rope," and if you don't find anything, please let me know. I am, by no means, telling you that you should go light up a big fat Marley. That decision lies, solely and exclusively, with the individual. Use it, or don't, that's up to you. But please do not expect anyone of experience in this arena to respect your opinion until it is a valid one. At the moment, being a non-user, you only have half of the story or, at best, experience with some imbecile that mis-used this sacred substance. All that you have is what you've been told or a memory of some idiot with a joint acting like a bafoon. I would also challenge you to call and set an appointment to visit one of our local dispensaries and visit with a compassionate caregiver that can tell you about some of the illnesses they aid in combating and how it affects the lives of some of their patients. I challenge you to research the answers to the questions that you've asked. This is the age of free information. So, to possess or claim ignorance on an issue or argument that you're inserting your opinion into is completely inexcusable. Please correct yourself and try again later.

September 21, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BillyD (anonymous) says...

2ndhomeowner. I hope you are not suggesting you are driving your kids around taking opioids. You really are missing the boat.

September 21, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Jeff,

HEMP was chosen on purpose. Congrats. You figured it out. You're the first to mention it. That ought to tell you something about everybody else, eh? (Oh, no, pot ain't never gonna hurt me . . . )

HMPT is an acronym for Human-factors, manpower, personnel and training. We're the guys who figure out what it takes for people to be successful at various military occupations, and almost without exception the heaviest pot users are the dumbest candidates. Whether one causes the other is not known, but they sure go together.

Grocery baggers and shuttle bus drivers who have radio dispatchers to keep them on schedule tend to be right down there at the bottom of the IQ scale. Painters are a cut above. People who empty the trash are just below.

A mind that's already dull tends to crave even further isolation from external stimuli. A mind that's dulled by drugs tends to seek out occupations which don't require much more than showing up and paying someone to help them file a 1040A every year to get their tax refund. Cartoons appeal to both categories. It's a very juvenile state of being where even short term memory isn't important and being given one or two simple tasks to perform (one at a time) is the limit.

Did I tell you about the framing carpenter who showed up without a hammer, saw or square? He didn't think he'd need them, but was willing to go back and get them if it was a big deal . . . .

And all this leads me to believe that if demerol grew on a bush, there would be people who would treat it just like pot is treated, but there would be fatal consequences. Maybe the answer is that pot is popular because it's not immediately fatal and it makes heavy users too dumb to care about the occupational and lifestyle consequences. After all, what's better than being dumb AND happy with it?

September 21, 2009 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I was a long time self-medicating type years before I opted to take advantage of the right my native state provides to me to use marijuana as my medicine according to the law. I am also ex-military. I was a huge "stoner," if you will, for 3+ years before signing my life away and taking the ASVAB(Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) Test @ age 20. If "potheads" are your lowest scoring candidates, or "dumbest" as you so eloquently put it, then how in the hell did I get an 86/99 on it. Does this mean that the military is filled with our nation's dumbest idiots? Of coarse not. What a ridiculous notion! But someone in the media could do a hell of a job spinning it to seem that way, right? Just because you work for the same propaganda machine that's been swearing up and down about the evils of this "devil's weed," doesn't make you right. You seem to have this amazing sense of self-righteousness about you, most likely invoked by your career choice, that probably gets in your way more than it helps you. You spend your days immersed in a system that is so corrupt and biased that it'll be over 10 TRILLION dollar$ in debt, that's United States Dollars, in just under 12 years, no wonder you're so jaded about the whole damn thing.
If sitting there on your butt and talking trash about a group of people you do NOT know, personally, makes you feel better as a person, then bang up job buddy! You can now proudly join the ranks of the other mindless American sheep that inspire a good majority of the world to view the current America in a very, very dim light. Congratulations sir!!!

September 21, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And as far as "being dumb and happy with it" goes, maybe you should look into what the people that founded this very country thought about cannabis. All that you're basing your very imaginative opinion on is a bucket full of lies that your government has supplied you with. As long as you keep listening to them, they'll keep it coming.

September 21, 2009 at 4:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Duke_bets (anonymous) says...

mmj - I was just about to ask you a question and then you answered it. Did you smoke marijuana before it was prescribed to you? You stated that you were a huge "stoner". In that case, all of your pro arguments are extremely biased. I would like to know the stats based on those that have or have not smoked weed prior to the marijuana that they are now prescribed.

Without looking it up...............Here's the results.....Marijuana is prescribed to marijuana users 100% of the time. Duke bets that nobody had their first taste of marijuana via a prescription from a doctor.

September 21, 2009 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

If you wanted to get all technical and ridiculous about things, why didn't you just say so?

1. I first tried marijuana at the age of 15.
2. My first experience did NOT lead to addiction. It was a solo incident that was not followed up by any immediate, prolonged usage.
3. Me being a self-proclaimed "stoner" before I became an MMJ patient has absolutely, 100% everything with me being an MMJ patient right now. What reason would I have to NOT be an MMJ Patient according to Colorado State law? When I began using marijuana as a pain manager, which was after the date Amendment 20 was passed, I might have been a "stoner" but it was only because of the fact that I could not afford to go through all of the doctors visits and application fees to be legally deemed a "registered patient" in Colorado. Technically(insert goofy Pee-Wee Herman word of the day sound effects here), there is nothing in the law that states you have to be a registered patient. Only that you must have a doctor's recommendation. If marijuana aids me in pain prevention and pain management, why in the hell would I pass up an opportunity to, under the umbrella of the law, use my medicine, in private and without harming one single, solitary soul on this planet?
4. There are countless stories of marijuana rescuing people who have been bogged-down and burdened with modern medicines, that have been prescribed by their doctors, only to find that every other thing on a pharmacy shelf, including the junk in their own medicine cabinet, leads to more trouble than they claim to fix in the first place. All you have to do is turn on your TV and wait for the newest drug, from the best company, to tell you all about the wonderful life you COULD be having, if you'd only take their latest chemical cocktail for your problem. People are dancing around, smiling, holding hands......then comes the legal-eese in the background......"may cause irritable bowel syndrome, bleeding from the eyes, tumors on your toe-nails, glow in the dark hair, gran-mal seizures and spontaneous combustion......"
5. Side effects of marijuana: Smiles, giggles, munchies, tingling, the ability to sit and listen to people attentively, thirst, a little coughing......need I continue?

September 21, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

6. You're absolutely right Duke. Most people that are introduced to the concept of medical marijuana in person, and subsequently become a patient, were introduced to it by someone that believes in it's power and probably did not have a problem with giving a little demonstration. They, most likely, did not hold a gun to the persons head and make them inhale or ingest it. Do you honestly believe someone would go through all the trouble of becoming a registered MMJ patient if they did not already believe and/or know that it was something that would help them? My god, at this point, I think the only off-ramp left on this free-way of logic leads us to accept the fact that most all MMJ patients have tried marijuana before being legally allowed to. How does this preclude one from producing an unbiased opinion on the subject? If anything, maybe it makes them all the more qualified to speak on the subject?
7. "Duke bets" is a very narcissistic way to start a sentence, especially when it's your screen name. It doesn't help people that might try to take you seriously (not that that could have possibly been one of your primary concerns).

......that'll have to hold you over for now. The season premier of "House" is on in 5 minutes and I need to medicate.

September 21, 2009 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Let me clear it up for you. A heavy pot user, regardless of native IQ, performs about where a person with an IQ of 80 would be in most tasks. The short-term memory loss and dullness account for most of it. The other factor which IQ does not account for is associated with ambition and motivation. There are many high IQ folks who are basically lazy and content to settle for less rather than put out the effort to succeed in challenging occupations, and whether the drugs make them lack ambition or whether the lack of ambition makes them seek comfort in mood-altering substances is a matter of debate.

So, what I'm saying is that many people who could function at a high level consider it to be too much work, and some of them pave over the resulting guilt, shame, loss, pain and depressed standard of living by self medicating.

My personal belief is that pharmaceuticals should be avoided, period. Only when the medical condition will lead to an early death or has a measurable impact on daily quality of life are they warranted. Some people like to take pills and get attention from doctors, and that's just as bad as drinking too much alcohol or staying stoned on pot. Addictive personalities find addictions, and that includes a demand for attention in the form of medical care.

If smoking marijuana would prevent old ladies from getting osteoporosis and breaking their hips, I'd be all for it.

Substance abuse is a form of mental illness. There are no two ways about it. Substance USE for medicinal purposes has a place in our society. The trick is in knowing the difference and avoiding slipping from beneficial use to harmful abuse.

Marijuana is banned under Federal law because of the substantial risk of abuse. Drug abuse by healthy people damages our society and weakens our country in unimaginable ways every day. As I have posted before in other threads, my own loss of productivity due to someone else's poor performance resulting from substance abuse is something I can measure in dollars and cents. Maybe you can't do that, but when you look at the cost of anything you purchase, some of that cost is due to lost productivity by substance abusers.

Valid medicinal use is not the problem. Abuse is the issue, and unfortunately, a lot of trafficking seems to go on around "legal" medical marijuana operations. It goes with the territory, and if "legal" users didn't allow it to happen, nobody would have a reason to complain.

I'm not angry at you for being a user. You are angry at me for telling the truth about what pot does to otherwise healthy people. Fire burns, falling objects injure, and marijuana dulls the brain. None of those things are my fault.

September 22, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Unfortunately, or fortunately, however you look at it, god does not exist. I appreciate the thought though.

September 22, 2009 at 12:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Is there an echo in here?

September 21, 2009 at 10:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

The funny thing about all of this is that you're only fooling yourselves.

Pot affects the way you think. You can't see the effects, because pot use dulls your ability to see them. That's why it's a perfect drug.

September 24, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I can't help but be a smart-a$$. I'm glad to see another person on the same page David.

September 21, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Okay, to tie up a few loose ends . . .

My mother in law is over 80 years old. She retired from a long and productive career years ago. She supported her daughters through college after their father's untimely death before the age of 50. She has suffered terribly from the effects of chemo, cancer and old age. Nobody expects her to be productive in the workplace or in society anymore. She's paid her dues. Her situation is quite different from a young man still in his productive years.

mmj, I'm not against medical marijuana as long as it's being legally dispensed and used. You've got a real chip on your shoulder, and I suspect that's a big part of your problems all around. You are choosing to use a substance that is regularly abused in our community and has been trafficked by people with MM licenses. Like it or not, suspicion goes with the territory. If we all saw that MMJ was being used responsibly and legally, there would be no reason to complain or doubt the motivations of the licensed users.

Marijuana abuse is a vast public health problem. You might as well be campaigning for unprotected sex and repeal of DUI laws. You're on the wrong side of an emotional issue and learning to deal with it and use MMJ legally -- and really being someone who needs it because nothing else will help you -- is the thing you should do.

If MMJ is proven to be safe and effective over time, it will be legalized. The best thing for you to do is be an example of a responsible MMJ user, and to turn in the people who are not. That's what a responsible person would do.

September 23, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Troutguy (anonymous) says...

Aich, did you really just smackdown grocery baggers, shuttle bus drivers, painters and trash collectors in your previous comment?! It takes someone with a special talent to be able to judge someone without ever meeting them. While i respect your opinions, I have a problem when you degenerate other people's professions and lifestyles.

September 22, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

aich.....you're killing me dude.
So are you saying a majority of MMJ patients also possess a mental illness? Have you ever stopped and listened to yourself? You sound like you should be one of those useless, corrupt pieces of feces on capitol hill!!! Are you DEA or something?

September 22, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Banning something for it's potential to be abused......kinda reminds me of alcohol prohibition. Boy, that turned out well!
Let's just take all the guns away!!! Heaven forbid someone should abuse one of those things!!!

September 22, 2009 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Random things happening are probably not your fault. The only thing you can be blamed for is your asinine opinions and extremely retarded story about a bad trip to the lumber yard.

Your ridiculousness has left me with no other option than to abandon the pursuit of logic with you. Go find someone that'll buy your BS, 'cause I ain't the one homie.

September 22, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

1999 (anonymous) says...

aich says...Marijuana is banned under Federal law because of the substantial risk of abuse.

hahahahahaha....that is not why it's banned.

then why don't we ban alchohol, oxycotin, percocet, TV, etc etc etc.

and seriously...your slam against grocery baggers, trash collectors painters etc is truly uncalled for and amazing rude.

your idiocy knows no bounds

September 22, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Wow!!! I guess I'm not the only who thinks this guy needs a party-size 6ft knuckle sandwich. (That's 72 inches for all of us idiots out there)
Maybe someday, with a little luck, we can all be cool enough to be better than everyone else, like aich.

September 22, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

How did so many idiots learn to use the internet?

September 22, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

When a person makes the conscious decision to reject something that will ease the "wracking pain" in their body, without inducing serious side-effects, what makes them eligible to bitch at people that do choose to ease their pain?

September 22, 2009 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Dave Ege..... I think you wanted to lay into Aich, not Trout... :-/

Man.....it used to only be me and Aich....back & forth....those were the days..... I tried, months back to sink a little sense into ole AicHEMPty-humpty-dumpty..... It didn't work. I see it only festered more madness and lunacy. I once thought the Aich-i-nator was starting to come around. But, it seems this deep-seeded bigotry runs deep in the marrow.... I hope, one day, someone Aich really loves and respects needs the miraculous healing power of medical Cannabis (and hopefully this person is bright enough to see through the shroud of lies and judgemental assumptions forced upon them by Aich-like people) and they experience for themselves the reality of this medicinal plant. I wonder if Aich would immediately toss this loved-one into the same pile as all of us other mistake-makin' fools? It seems Aicher, and IT'S new friend 2ndhomeowner, expect for people, even loved ones I'm sure, to be at the mercy of doctors and our governement. We are all suppose to put on our wool coats and herd around like sheep?... WRONG.....

Some of us make SENSIble decisions and think for ourselves.

sensiblecolorado.org
Americans For Safe Access
NORML USA

September 22, 2009 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Trout,

There are certain intellectual and motor skills required to perform certain tasks. A genius can bag groceries if he wants to. Somebody else may not be capable of doing it at all due to an intellectual deficit. My point is that people who abuse substances to the extent that their intellectual performance is impaired tend to function at a below-normal level.

The Horizons clients we see working around town at appropriate jobs are an excellent example of people with impairments who can be productive at a below-normal intellectual level. I'd say that a guy with average intelligence who habitually uses pot to the point where his short-term memory is impaired may be functioning around the same level as a person with below-normal intelligence.

I'm not trying to insult anybody. Reality is what it is. People who choose to be underemployed to live around here have made their own choices freely. That doesn't change the fact that a person with a sixth-grade education can drive a city bus (like my grandfather did for 25 years).

mmjetc,

I'm not your ex-law enforcement relative. I've got a good bit of experience with malingerers and drug users however, and unfortunately, it's hard to tell the difference without seeing a person's face.

In general, when you walk into the ER to investigate an injury and the victim is smiling, he's not really in pain. People who are in pain don't smile. If you are smiling when you light up, you don't need it.

This is getting pretty funny. You're making threats against me for stating obvious facts about drug abuse.

It's legal already. What's the big deal? Enjoy.

September 22, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Chronie,

I agreed with you before that as long as medical marijuana is legal at the state level, and the feds have stopped prosecuting those who obey the state laws, there's no reason to complain about it.

My mother in law has been through chemo three times in the past four years and I wouldn't hesitate to help her obtain pot if she wanted it. She doesn't. It's her choice.

The problem MMJ patients have right now is that there are a lot of users and providers who appear to be breaking the law by trafficking outside of the authorized limits and users.

The other problem is that most new users in Colorado are males under 30 years of age. Females are usually the ones who seek medication for chronic pain, so why the discrepancy? (Isn't it obvious?).

If I needed it, I would obtain it and use it. I even have a place in my home where I could grow it in soil without using pots. I guess the difference is that I wouldn't be flying a marijuana leaf flag and hanging Cheech and Chong posters around the house.

It's one thing to read your Bible before bedtime, and another to stand on the street corner preaching to passers by. Why are MMJ patients so militant about it if there's not something deeper going on?

September 22, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

For the record, I did NOT make threats against you. I merely made notice of a seemingly common opinion. May you live a very long and prosperous, physically-harm-free existence that revolves completely around only you. May you live long enough to suffer the natural consequences of your extreme self-righteousness.

September 22, 2009 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And there is something deeper going on. We who use, generally, are of the opinion that the current federal laws are way beyond ridiculous. Most of us would like to see an America that will one day wake up and realize that marijuana is the most absurd thing humans could think of to make illegal. There are multiple multi-thousand member strong groups out there, which have some of our nations best and brightest in their ranks, that support the legalization of this plant that once helped our country through tough times. There are a lot of people out there that see the historical resume of hemp and are furious over the fact that our society is ignoring the armada of products that marijuana cultivation, on a gross scale, provides for.
Since imagination seems to be pretty popular around here, let's take a quick, scenic detour:
"...well, what do we do about keeping all of our kids away from these huge fields of POT?!?!?! Surely, the avenue of destruction presents itself, plain as day..." Well, Mr. & Mrs. Smith, that's not really a concern. Industrial hemp, grown for industrial applications, is a completely different plant from the one that's grown for medication purposes.
All I'm fighting for is the idea that the current hemp prohibition is completely absurd and only serves to further the image of American ignorance to the rest of the world.

September 22, 2009 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

OK, Aich, so if your mother-in-law would've wanted some mmj to help her during chemo, you would've helped her get some? hmmmmmm, would you consider her worthless once she medicated? You sure are proud of yourself and your life. How about encouraging others, rather than judging them and tearing them down?

These articles in the Pilot ALL are referring to medical marijuana, but it seems everyone sees a Cheech and Chong poster or a Bob Marley flag when they think of marijuana. As patients, we don't. Seeds of corruption were planted in our government during the times of Harry Aslinger and his friends..... ever since we have had some serious mind-warping going on. That is the deeper issue here.

September 22, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich = 2x4 on this issue!!!!! No more needs to be said.

September 22, 2009 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich says..."It's one thing to read your Bible before bedtime, and another to stand on the street corner preaching to passers by. Why are MMJ patients so militant about it if there's not something deeper going on?"

You've helped connect the nail to hammer's head. As much as I writhe in chagrin at most of your comments, I must admit that even you are helping our cause. Your "arguments" only serve to point out the general ignorance on the issue and the affects of years of government propaganda being pumped into the system.
So I guess, in a way, thanks. Keep up the good work.

September 22, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seeuski (anonymous) says...

Duke_bets......" I would like to know the stats based on those that have or have not smoked weed prior to the marijuana that they are now prescribed.

Without looking it up:::::Here's the results:..Marijuana is prescribed to marijuana users 100% of the time. Duke bets that nobody had their first taste of marijuana via a prescription from a doctor."

This may be the first time seeuski is on the same page, what a riot.
How was my grammar?

September 22, 2009 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Skifreelivelove (anonymous) says...

"We want legalization, decriminalization and emancipation for all those victim's. To incarceration for participation with the healing of the nation. It's just another age of politcal insanity. Abusing the rights of humanity. But we should all plant a seed of this weed that we need to provide an ecological calamaty.We can use it for paper to help save some trees, use it for fuel to save some seas, use it for medicine to help fight disease, and use it for food when we are hungry. Give me the ganja cookie and herbal tea sensimilla is irie. I don't care what no government say, sensimilla is OK!" -Pato Banton

September 22, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seeuski (anonymous) says...

Far out.

September 22, 2009 at 7:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Scott_Wedel (Scott Wedel) says...

I know for a fact that someone's first use of marijuana was for medical. An older person unable to keep food down while on chemo and becoming dangerous underweight was told to try it. And used it only to gain weight and stopped once chemo was over.

But there is no denying that many that use medical marijuana have been using it recreationally for years.

But that undercuts the argument that it is a dangerous drug if so many people can use it for years with few emergency room visits, deaths or withdraw symptoms.

It is so easy available that anyone today that wants it can get it. So it is hard to believe that if it was made legal that there would be any great change in usage.

September 23, 2009 at 1:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Being a cop calling snitch is responsible?

September 23, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seeuski (anonymous) says...

Scott,
Any chance that weed heads are abusing the medical marijuana laws for party purposes?
It's not like most of us don't have life experiences with this drug.
I found an interesting thread where posters are discussing their experiences.
Quite compelling to me as I have been there done that.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/...

September 23, 2009 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Scott_Wedel (Scott Wedel) says...

Aic,
"Marijuana abuse is a vast public health problem. You might as well be campaigning for unprotected sex and repeal of DUI laws"

That doesn't make sense trying to group together unprotected sex which is unwise, but legal; repeal of DUI laws which is a legal activity (drinking) that makes another activity (driving) into a public menace and so DUI is illegal; and MJ which is unwise and illegal.

Are you are suggesting that the others should follow the model for marijuana and we should make drinking and unprotected sex illegal?

Or that we should follow the model for alcohol and make marijuana legal, but have laws that protect the public from impaired drivers and such?

Or are you arguing in favor of the unprotected sex model in which everything involving consenting adults is legal, but there is an educational effort to encourage people to act responsibly?

It seems that marijuana is less of a "gateway" drug among users than it is for drug dealers. That drug dealers learn the business via marijuana and then proceed to the more serious and higher profit drugs.

September 23, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Of coarse.....it all makes perfect sense now.....how could we have missed something this huge, for so long?.....thank god somebody saw the light and decided to tell us!!.....if we could only put down the dope long enough to reach out to the hand of common sense and drag ourselves out of our mindless misery.....
Words cannot express our gratitude for what you've done here today aichempty. Without your grand wisdom and insight, we might have just ended up like those kids on TV you see that can't seem break the gelatinous bond between the couch and their backside. How can we ever repay you?

September 24, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Of all the words used to describe a snitch, I don't think that "responsible" is among the most popular.
Maybe one of these days you'll actually recognize that it's not about abusers or legal users and how they should be regulated/persecuted/ridiculed/chastised by the likes of you. The whole thing boils down to the fact that it shouldn't be classified as a schedule 1 narcotic in the first place because it's a god damned plant. Granted, there are a few drugs out there that come from a plant, but not before going through some serious processing and altering. There are, and should still be, laws that punish people for being retarded on pot while endangering someone else. This would include DUI or DWI laws to target impaired drivers. The only problem is, there are no drug tests available today that can detect marijuana usage, definitively, with-in a 24-hour period. All that the drug tests of today prove is that it's been introduced to someone's system with-in under a month. With-out the ability to produce accurate test results, proving a person's level of intoxication, and subsequent fault, at the time of an incident, there is no way to justly or fairly prosecute these people.
But I know you've probably got this whole thing all figured out and have a whole book's worth of strategy and tactic for solving all of this.....so, let's hear it aichy.....

September 23, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Skifreelivelove (anonymous) says...

Seeuski,
really sounds like someone from cmc, ever heard the term seemeski. Well I have been there done that and the main problem is alchohol being abused for party purposes and people who die from drinking and driving. When I first moved to Steamboat there was a study done on DUI's stating Colorado was number one for dui arrests and Steamboat was the number one city for dui arrests in the state. My father was killed five days before I was born as he was hit head on by a 19 year old drunk driver while riding his brand new harleydavidson. Oh ya seeuski that thread more of a discussion on the imbalance of chemicals in your brain and had nothing to do with medical patients abusing the laws. Good disccusion though..

Hey Aichyhemptomy,

Your mom is old and there may be no hope for that, I believe that this is about the future of not only our country but the world. Out with the old and in with the new. My friends and I would allways joke about how bad the mountain sucked and how much better it will be when all of the people that have lived here for 30 years finally die. Can't fight against the youth.. Maybe you would not be so paranoid or suspicious if marijuana was legal, then what would you complain about. The health issue is a concern for users who smoke marijuana and not for those who consume it in food. There is no health affects for the consumption of THC. Hemp is a distinct variety of the plant species Cannabis sativa L. Hempseed is considered by leading researchers and medical doctors to be one of the most nutritious food sources on the planet. Hemp will be like the Internet, which two years ago wasn't even on the corporate or government radar screen. Two years from now, knowledge of hemp and its products will have spread to homes and businesses throughout the world. Hemp's versatility was explained in a 1938 Popular Mechanics magazine article, "New Billion-Dollar Crop": "Hemp is the standard fiber of the world:and can be used to produce more than 25,000 products."

September 23, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aichy.....the reason it may appear that I have a chip on my shoulder is because it really torques me the wrong way when people refuse to even attempt to understand an opposing viewpoint on something. Ignorance and close-mindedness really get to me because they stain our society and the rest of the world can't help but look at us in befuddlement when they see some of the crap that's allowed to take place in our allegedly free and democratic society.
Once again, again, and again marijuana gets tossed in the same bucket of s#/t as a whole host of truly bad things in our world. This, again, ties into the main argument. There are things that are consumed on, a daily basis, by a huge number of people that cause them much more harm than marijuana EVER would or could. These things, also proven to often be more addictive than marijuana, are not only legal but much more abused than marijuana. The argument here is that marijuana is receiving "special" treatment from our legal system because they've figured out how to sustain countless jobs and make BILLIONS of dollars from the prosecution, imprisonment and fining of it's users through the prohibition of marijuana. During the Bush-era, marijuana arrest statistics did not see one, single year of decline. In fact, marijuana arrests/convictions grew at a staggering rate during the entire Bush administration.
From every piece of garbage I've read through-out the internet, it seems as though most of the tax-paying citizens that would like to see the continuation of marijuana prohibition, fail to mention the monumental sums of money that their government is collecting from them in order to sustain this absurdity. I would like to know how some of you feel about your government sub-contracting it's prison systems to the private sector. Follow the logic.....tax-payer sustained government, giving tax-payer money, to private corporations, to make money off of the imprisonment of "potheads." I don't know if this is scary to anyone else, but I sure don't like the idea of privatized jails that are motivated by profit. Having a business model that involves imprisoning people for profit, at least in my book, is not all that short of evil.
Can anyone provide some LOGICAL defense for this outrageous "fiscal responsibility"?

September 23, 2009 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"Follow the logic:..tax-payer sustained government, giving tax-payer money, to private corporations, to make money off of the imprisonment of "potheads." "

Forgive me for failing to state that the a fore mentioned "potheads" also pay their taxes. So do the dispensaries, the growers and every MMJ patient.

September 23, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

Scott, Very well stated it will be interesting to hear the rebuttal to that.
seeuski, I have been following another thread where you have been on the bandwagon chastising another poster about cut and pasting propoganda. Here you are doing the same thing. So if you don't have an original thought maybe you shouldn't be a hypocrite.

September 23, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

"Of all the words used to describe a snitch, I don't think that "responsible" is among the most popular."

People who tolerate criminal behavior should not be surprised when they become victims and then cannot find anyone who cares.

When some stoner finds out you're a MMJ patient and then breaks into your house and steals your -- cough cough -- medicine, how much help do you think you'll get from the local cops. It cuts both ways.

September 23, 2009 at 1:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Bandmama just has to ask, has anyone in the above posts ever experienced the positive effects of hemp hearts as a dietary supplement? No buzz involved, I promise aichemty!!!!
but for arguements sake, lets look at a few positve things about the plant that you may not be aware of, please be sure to investigate the heart of hemp before you throw out an answer. Honestly, there are many benefits outside of the buzz, and I just have to ask, now after you have insulted the intelligence of baggers, bus drivers, carpenters, hardware store employees and I think a garbage man or two, do you feel better about yourself? Just wondering.

September 23, 2009 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Mama,

No, I don't feel better about any of it.

Pity is the word. I truly pity them.

September 23, 2009 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well thank god we live in an age where calling the cops is a choice. I don't know how many phone calls I'd be making before I beat the life out of the punk I catch rummaging through my stuff. At best, I might call the unlucky soul an ambulance.
And as far as your pity goes, you might want to save most of it for yourself.

September 23, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

aichmpty-I am so glad to hear that. Pity is felt towards you as well.
Potheads at least have the choice to Potheads....stupidity, well, speaks for itself. Have you started your study of hemp hearts?
(absolutly NO offense aimed at potheads for the comparassion, my apologies. Just making a point.)

September 23, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

....this just in. Officials have confirmed that, yet again, aichempty couldn't have possibly missed the main point of this entire debate by any wider of a margin!

Allow me to slow things down a bit and see if I can try to understand where you're coming from.
Let's say I have a friend. He's an MMJ patient and his name is Franchesco. He's active in fighting for the reversal of the current drug policies, not because it's "cool" per say, but rather because he sees how retarded and backwards things are at the moment and knows the only way to change things is to just get out and do it. He believes, vehemently I might add, in his cause and loves to talk to people about it because he feels so strongly about the moral issues involved in this prohibition. Now one day, while at his day job, Franchesco witnesses one of his co-workers, Peter, puffing on a funny looking cigarette out back, behind the kitchen. He can't help but wonder if he's found another soldier in the marijuana ranks. He decides to find out more. Through talking to his co-worker, he has discovered that Peter uses marijuana to control debilitating migraine headaches that have plagued him since he was a boy. Drug after drug was lined up for him to sample by his doctor but nothing seemed to work. Then one day Peter, or Pete(as most of his cool new pothead friends call him), was introduced to the wonders of marijuana. Since that day, Pete has been self-medicating for his condition, illegally as it were. Franchesco, being the compassionate guy that he is and not wanting to see Pete have to go through any more headaches than he already does, proceeds to let Pete know just how easy it is to become legally invisible to local authorities in matters of marijuana.

So what you're trying to say is, Franchesco is scum because doesn't feel it necessary to report little ol' pothead Pete to the man for puffin' the magic dragon, when no one else is affected by it?
Why do you feel an obligation to involve yourself in the morality of OTHER peoples lives and then proceed to pee in their cheerios?

September 23, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Hey Aicher, recently, in Boulder, a couple gangster thugs went into an mmj dispensary and strong-arm (no weapons) robbed a female dispensary owner, and took all the meds and the security cameras. These thugs were quickly apprehended minutes later fleeing town; and the medicine was given back to the dispensary owner. Another incident: A friend of mine is a caregiver, and her registered patient took $800 worth of meds from her and threatened her if she did anything. She called the cops and they are pressing felonies on the guy.

If my home was broken into and my meds stolen, you better believe I will call the cops and they have no choice but to help and investigate; and in all cases I have ever heard of, the cops help the patients. Cops are on our side, Aich. It's people like you that we fight against.

September 23, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Aich- you know in reference to your example of enhancement meds.....
tetrahydrocannabinol is such a BIG word, another reason that reference to the product may not be suited to signs.
(Ok, lets see how quickly we get a response with a phallic or cop based one sided arguement for this!)
GO aichempty!!!! Timers on!)

September 23, 2009 at 4:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It's true aich. Talk to most cops and they'll probably sound a lot like us when it comes down to seeing the waste and futility embedded in marijuana prohibition.
But if your looking for people to agree with you, maybe you should look to people in Big Pharma? They're the ones that support, financially and heavily, the continued prohibition of our sacred medicine. What do you think happens to them when marijuana is finally legalized? They still can't figure out how to make money off of pot. Not for lack of effort though. They have been more attempts to create/bastardize/patent a pharmaceutical version of marijuana than are worth talking about. ALL of them have been tremendous, I mean huge, failures and only serve to point out that even the pharmaceutical companies see how useful marijuana is, even if they can only fail at duplicating it. They just dread the unavoidable avalanche of profit-loss at the dawn of marijuana legalization and would gladly give a buck or two to "the man" that gives false hope of abolishing it forever.

September 23, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Skifreelivelove (anonymous) says...

Bandmama, I feel a lot better after doing some research on these hemp hearts you are talking about. I am going to stock up on this miracle food to help me get the right nutrition I need after I get knee surgery next week. Thanks for that bandmama you go to show that we can do better than that aichemptmoy dude. By helping eachother and educating people about the good things. Not trying to tear someone down becuase of living a miserable life.. Thanks again bandmama!!

September 23, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Skifreelivelong- You are so very welcome! I found them in my hometown health food store and besides being extremely good for you, they taste fantasic! Nice nutty flavor. Wonderful on salads, yogurt (instead of granola or the like) they also make one heck of a pancake..... the only problem is that they are quite pricey, and I usually have to have my parents send them to me or have them shipped directly from the store. My son is also experimenting with being a vegetarian. I support his choice, but seeing as he is perhaps the worlds pickiest eater, (hates fish, hates tofu ect...) finding suitable protein sources is difficult. Hhearts help to balance the diet. Excellent for those who have a loss of appetite due to other illnesses as well, as a very small serving provides many nutrients.
AH HAAAA! Another pro for medical use.... go figure....
Still waiting Aich....................

September 23, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Maybe he's busy doing a lot of research or something.........hahahahahahahaha.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

September 23, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

Probably making a cocktail and smoking a cigar so he can calm down.

September 23, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

might be on the phone reporting a possibly stoned employee at the lumberyard after he came home with the wrong size piece......(of lumber) Ok, I couldn't resist either.

September 23, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Breaking News...(beepbeep beep beep beepbeepitybeep)....Attention all MMJ patients and all of those that might be suffering from some side-effects of marijuana tomorrow between 5-8pm!!!
You can get some awesome ice cream and the opportunity to make some wishes come true if you stop by Cold Stone tomorrow. Check out SP&T homepage twit blurb for details.

September 23, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

roach,

Not so. I'm willing to learn.

For example, my comment was, "What do Whistler and Tahoe do?" I'm not surprised they have dispensaries. I just asked how those communities handle them when it comes to public visibility.

I'm also a firm believer that Americans are overmedicated at great cost, and that health care should be a non-profit business. My problem with MMJ is that it seems to end up in the hands of unlicensed users, and of people who want an excuse to smoke pot more than they need a substitute for things like aspirin and ibuprofen.

Bandmama, I don't want to live next door to either one. I've arranged it so that's not a possibility. Your logic is that we have to deal with something bad, so choose the least bad. Mine is to avoid the negative altogether and enjoy the benefits (such as saving money to spend on more useful or beneficial things than intoxicating weeds).

Doctors and patients are both responsible for overmedicating with expensive substances for everything from impotence to needing to pee too often. It's not necessary to take a pill for everything people have to deal with. Pot makes a lot more sense for chronic pain than some other approaches, but it's also far too easy to abuse, so what's the solution?

I'm not here to be contrary. I'm here to find the truth, and opinion doesn't count as truth. In reality, there are few absolutes in anything to do with human disease and biochemistry and the range of "normal" can be quite broad.

If MMJ was good for ADD/ADHD, should kids be allowed to go to the nurse's office and light one up before math class? Maybe that would be better for home schoolers, eh?

There are teetotalers (the term is actually "tea totalers" -- make sense?) social drinkers and drunks. There are those who drink every day and those who drink once a year. Moderate alcohol consumption has benefits for heart patients (makes blood more slippery) while over indulgence causes liver and pancreatic disease.

Pot is legal for MMJ patients now, but not for school kids. Keeping the two groups apart is the challenge, and unfortunately, it seems like a lot of MMJ patients are only too willing to introduce it to others. Who would be more likely to give it to kids than a young adult who can possess it legally? How about trading MMJ for sexual favors -- think that ever happened?

It seems that marijuana users are not that motivated to keep the idea of permitted use legal and responsible. Is that because pot makes you unable to act responsibly? It all goes back to the issue of irresponsible use leading to statutory prohibition. Is pot abuse just for losers, or is it just that losers are drawn to abuse pot?

A kid died of alcohol poisoning at a neighbor's house a while back. You can say the kid would not have died from pot, but if he or others hadn't been smoking pot, would he have od'd on alcohol? Could someone else have saved him? Was that extra puff of stupid the catalyst?

September 26, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

OMG!!!
The hemp hearts I had on my yogurt this morning have severly distorted my thoughts......(darn that lack of THC) I guess I will no longer comment. Thanks Aichy for showing us all the light.
(Do you think anyone should tell him that simple sleep aids and stop smoking prescribed drugs do also? Last I heard, there was no warning lables concerning homocidal or suicidal thoughts on a bag of weed. Shhhh! Lets let him think he is right on everything. He seems to need the ego boost...HA!)

September 24, 2009 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

he he he!!!!

September 24, 2009 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Has anyone ever OD'd on ego before?

September 24, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Not yet to the best of my knowledge, but we may have the once in a lifetime chance to see it happen here in the Boat.

September 24, 2009 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I'll bring the specially buttered popcorn! You call Guinness.

September 24, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Read "the record" in the Pilot and see how many people are caught with marijuana following traffic stops.

One of the reasons that people who are drunk or stoned get stopped is because they forget what they're doing and run through a radar trap, or otherwise get the attention of the police.

Mental impairment from substance use is one of the reasons people get in trouble while driving, and is obviously a cause of a lot of accidents and injuries.

You cannot reasonably claim that making pot more available is going to reduce the number of people who will use it while driving. Quite the opposite, use of any substance that impairs judgement makes people more likely to use it while doing something dangerous. If everybody could be trusted to stay home and use pot responsibly, I'd have no opposition to it. It's not the responsible users who cause the problems.

The comment about my experience with malingerers is just plain ignorant. It happens to be true. The world is full of people who fake sickness and seek disability payments from the government or workmens' comp because they are either lazy or mentally ill (mostly depression) and would rather sit around and be supported than go to work. States with the most liberal policies in these areas have the most people living at the expense of other taxpayers, and also the most fraud. Not surprisingly, the same states have suffered most from businesses moving away to other states, factory shutdowns, etc. The data proves it. Your government keeps statistics on such things and the proof is in the data. States like Texas and Georgia have low rates, while California, Michigan and Connecticut have high rates for people doing exactly the same jobs in government industrial facilities (shipyards, depot repair facilities, etc.). Have you noticed that California is bankrupt? You think drug use and malingering arent some of the reasons why?

Legalization of marijuana is a tiny issue in most of the country and most of the population. Addictive use is just another way to be handicapped and drag society down to its lowest level. It's a despicable habit no different from alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, sniffing glue or abusing prescription pain killers.

Did you ever stop to think that if all the people abusing pot would stop, that would also put an end to the "war on drugs" issue? With rare exceptions, for valid medical reasons, nobody needs the stuff. So why not just say, "no."

That's easy. Because you can't. And why do you suppose that's so? Why do you need pot unless you're really sick?

You want it. It's either addictive, or you need to get high because of an inability to cope with life without it.

The problem is between your ears. That's the one you need to work on. It's the same as alcohol, or cocaine, or any other addictive illness. That's reality.

September 25, 2009 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

DEAL!!!!!

September 24, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blue_spruce (anonymous) says...

anyone who says "I've got a good bit of experience with malingerers..." is obviously pretty old and (sadly) out of touch with mainstream society.

September 24, 2009 at 9:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I have no problem flipping the coin over to see what's on the other side. I know that there are a lot of people out there that hold similarly ignorant views to those of aichy. When I say ignorant, I mean that they just don't know all of the facts. Not saying I do either, never have. There are very few people, if any, that fully understand every, single fact and detail revolving around the legalization debate. All that I KNOW, for sure, are the facts that have been presented to me and the conclusions I've drawn. I see billions of tax-payer dollars wrapped up in prosecuting and imprisoning people that use marijuana and, at the very least, there are hundreds of better uses for this money. Cops in L.A. will stand to watch some street crack-head light up across the intersection, but as soon as they think there might be some weed involved they go guns blazing like there's a real threat society in progress. You can't even try to tell me that marijuana is worse for somebody than some good ol' Reagan crack. At least, not seriously.
Having been raised in a family with more than one former law enforcement officer in it's ranks, I have been well versed in the debate/propaganda that supports the current marijuana prohibition. However, as you might be able to tell, I was shown a different road and the option to discover the truth of the matter for myself. I did, and the only regret that I currently harbor is not doing it sooner and not telling more people.
In conclusion, it would be far more rewarding and productive for you to walk into a four-square gospel church preaching the glories of satanism & devil worship, than it would be for you to preach about the evils of marijuana to me. There aren't many points from the negative side of the BS that I haven't heard and there are even fewer points I've heard that are based in fact/reality.
The challenge stands: Justify the waterfall of money being dumped into the prohibition of a plant.

September 24, 2009 at 11:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Popular opinions have often been debated. Here are a few that were commonly held in the past.

1. African Americans were incapable of flying combat aircraft or holding other positions in the military which required intelligence and high levels of performance. Troops were segregated by race, with minorities assigned mostly to support roles such as cooking, laundry, truck driving, etc.

2. Women were incapable of voting. African American men were granted the right to vote before any woman could vote.

3. The Earth is flat.

4. The Earth is the center of the Universe.

5. The Milky Way galaxy is the extent of the Universe.

6. Maggots are generated spontaneously from rotting meat.

7. Craters all over the Earth which were once thought to be volcanic in origin are actually impact craters produced by comets and asteroids.

Should I bother to go on?

The "opinion" that marijuana causes no harm to anyone is blind and ignorant. It's like any other intoxicating or psychoactive substance, and no different from alcohol, tobacco or any other natural or artificial pharmaceutical which requires responsible use to avoid harm to the user.

Blanket legalization for general use by the adult population would only add one more harmful substance to the existing mix. Obviously alcohol kills a lot of people. So does prescription drug abuse. So do medication errors by health care provders. So does speeding and reckless driving.

I have a friend in this area who lost his wife and kid to a head-on collision with a drunk driver when he was a very young man. He doesn't drink at all because of that experience. Put yourself in his shoes and tell me you want to add something else to an existing problem with intoxicated drivers.

(cont.)

September 25, 2009 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

AYE!!!

September 25, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

So keeping with your checks and balances maybe we should legalize marijuana and get rid of alcohol. I am sure domestic abuse would diminish greatly, date rape would go way down, and it would probably knockout bar fighting altogether. The police blotter would probably be different too, because people wouldn't get caught driving drunk and have their contraband found. Just a thought for the debate.

September 25, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Perhaps one of those wrongly held popular opinions is:

Drugs should be illegal...........................

Isn't it just possible that we would make better headway in the fight against drug abuse by following the education model that has worked better than anything at keeping kids from smoking tobacco. No it's not perfect, but it is light years better than throwing a user in Jail.

Look at the experience with MADD and the reduction in DUI. Yes there are penalties in place, but the underlying substance problem remains legal.

And finally, what out our countries experience with prohibition in the 20's. What a roaring success that was. It led to Gangs, Guns and Violence in the streets. Does Al Capone ring a memory bell for you?

We are seeing the exact same problems now in the black market supply chain for these drugs.

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"

September 25, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Skifree...can I come work there? I am Highly trained, Highly qualified and Highly motivated.

September 26, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I hate when people make me sound like a broken record, but here we go again.....

You seem to be stuck in this deadlocked doughnut spin around the wrong points. You're completely missing the argument. The argument for marijuana legalization is more about all of the OTHER uses for marijuana that our entire culture is being deprived of. The strain of marijuana used for industrial hemp, the kind that makes over 25,000 products possible, is considered a danger to our society because of it's name, not because it's a health concern. There are NO, I repeat NO, psychoactive properties in industrial hemp that would be able to affect someone's mind. Smoking it would be dumb and retarded. It is NOT the same strain as the medicinal one, nor does it share the same properties.....but it's still illegal. This, at least to me, seems completely ludicrous. This is what makes me question my government when it tells me I should, "...stay away from this plant. In fact, report this plant to your local authorities should you detect it's presence. This plant will only lead you to a bunch of other hardcore drugs that will destroy you and make you murder your family in cold-blood while giggling like an idiot."
I defy you to find any evidence that supports the anti-marijuana case made by the government the way it's depicted in films like "Reefer Madness" and "High School Confidential." Make the case. Seal the deal. Be the first one to show the all of us just how evil pot really is.

September 25, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Once again, let me ask something. As a taxpayer and a parent.....
I want my tax dollars to keep rapists and child molestors and murderers in prison, or at least caught. I am sick and tired of MY hard earned tax dollar going to keep a stoner in jail. End of story. What exactly is so difficult to understand about that. Aichy, would you prefer to live next door to a paroled violent sex offender who may happen to notice your wife or daughter or maybe even your son or YOU, or a guy who smokes a joint to relieve pain, or increase his appetite because maybe he is on chemo, or what ever the medical reason may be? (AND for once keep in mind how many potentially dangerous side effects some prescribed meds have. ie: suicidal thoughts ect, maybe that bullet meant for his own mouth missed and goes through your window?)
I will take the stoner any day.

September 25, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Maybe aich is right.... maybe we should ignore the countless homeless, under-educated, poor and under-privileged of our country in order to financially uphold marijuana prohibition.
How much good do you think we could do for these groups in our society with the close to 8 Billion dollars that could be re-directed away from the marijuana prohibition? How do you think the legalization of a material, useful in producing over 25,000 products, would affect industry and small business in America and subsequently the world? Can you imagine the countless jobs that could be created by doing this? I can assure you that workforce involved with utilizing marijuana industrially would dwarf the current drug-buster crowd that the tax-payers are keeping employed today. I think the money involved in the way things could be, after we end marijuana prohibition, would make the cost of upholding the marijuana prohibition seem laughable. In fact, we're costing ourselves vast sums by letting this go on as it has.
I challenge the voters that are reading this to do the research on the issues in their next election. Find the things you believe are under funded and write your representative with your concerns about the current waste being generated by the war on marijuana. I dare you to do it and see what happens. This is part of getting involved. Let's show our government that we'll not stand for the current injustices being perpetrated by our federal government. Let's show them that we want the money used for something else. Let's relentlessly appeal for the need of renewed industry that will benefit not only the middle class, but the nation as a whole. Let's do something as a people that will not just bring us out of our current economic fustercluckery, but put us on the road to prosperity again. Let's unscrew our nation.

September 25, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

This is a debate that's not going to be won, but it's worth revisting the original point.

We're a tourist town. What do you want outsiders to see when they get here?

Isn't it reasonable to believe that a licensed mmj user can find a dispensary from the address on the door? Who else needs to know?

There's a fine line between meeting a compassionate need for medical marijuana and promoting the stuff as a cure-all for those who suffer from, well, nothing but a life that sucks so much they need to get high to be able to stand living in their own skin.

We don't need drunks falling down on our streets anymore than we need Marijuana Molly's advertising cannabis with a neon sign. People don't spend money to come here with their families and see winos and pot heads hanging around on Lincoln Avenue.

What do they do at Whistler? Snowbird/Alta? Tahoe? Maybe we should worry about the resorts that ranked higher in the recent polls and follow their examples.

September 25, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

You're turning it into some sort of limited, close-knit community issue that just affects tourism and the opinions of some rich douchy-types.
You're just some incendiary A-hole that thinks his poo don't stink.
I hope you find out someday just how many people you interact with on a daily basis are ninja tokers.
And on a side note; there are people that come here for the pot.

September 25, 2009 at 11:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

POP QUIZ TIME!!!!!!!
Anyone out there know what one of the original ingrediants of Coca Cola was? Yup, coke. It was touted as being a good thing! Eventually the recipe was changed, for good reason.
Now, why do I point this out? It occured to me that perhaps those so strongly opposed to the legalization of pot may be under the assumption that those who are for it are all deranged druggies. Let me say for the record, no they are not.
Anyone who has spent any time around a crack,coke,meth head knows that some substances are not fit for human consumption in any way. There are differences between the two classes. Keep this in mind. Sort of like comparing a rose to a plastic piece of decoration ivy. One is natural, one is man made. One will decompose naturally, the other will be in a landfill for years.
Now, is coke a does come from the cocoa plant, (like another addicitive substance, chocolate but that is another article all together!!!) but has not been in its "natural" state for a while, usually comes with an additive or two. Certainly some can begin to understand the the basis of the arguements?

September 25, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

OMG!
a comment in direct relation to the article that isn't insulting someones intelligence or job status!!!!
My opinion? no we dont have to have a large neon sign.
and as far as a tourist town HA HA HA!!!! it is also a college town, ever walked across CMC campus and NOT caught a second hand buzz? LOL!
And I dont think we need to see either, a drunk or a pot head lounging on any corners. Both are a bit unsightly, as are pompus cock roaches on cell phones.

September 25, 2009 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Jeff, thanks for the correction!
(I am one of those horrible persons who dosn't care exactly where chocolate comes from, as long as I am able to get it. But I always appreciate learning! LOL!) HAGD!

September 25, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

LOL!
Rest assured, never sniffed anything besides the mountain air!
I dont know if they still sell it. Excellent point to ponder for the day. I prefer Ovaltine myself. Comes with vitiamins! Less guilt and allows me to enjoy the pure uncut chocolate.

September 25, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Another interesting point to ponder.
Have a nice weekend.

September 25, 2009 at 1 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Marajuana Molly's I kind of like it but doesn' t that violate the City ordinance? Maybe they reconsider "Boom Sticks" :)

September 25, 2009 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

News flash Aich!! There are dispensarys in Tahoe and Whistler!! Once again, you have shoved your own foot in your mouth.

September 25, 2009 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I, here by, move to create a motion that recognizes screen name "aichempty" as having as much to contribute to a reasonable debate as a whole sack of hammers.
All those in favor say, "aye."

September 25, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Now now, that is not a very nice thing to write.....
Bandmama is shaking her finger at you!!!!
(now if you want a sack of hammers, check out the Chem dude on the 9/11 story....whew!!!!!)
Aichempty has every right to state his........opinions.

September 25, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Although I still am waiting to hear an answer to my question as to which sort of neighbor he would prefer, the paroled rapist or the stoner dude.

September 25, 2009 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Does the stoner dude have a license to grow weed?

September 25, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

No, but he does work at a lumberyard, every now and then he forgets a hammer.
The rapist on the other hand does not discriminate, he will go for anything young or old. Every now and then eyes the neighbors sheep longingly. His best friend, who is there every night only killed one child in a drunk driving incident, but was let go for good behavior, but due to that unpleasant experience he is on an anti-depressant Efexxor, and has the occational suicidal or homocidal thought.
MMJ- thanks, you are right, I should have been more specific.
Oh yeah, the stoner on the other hand believes in karma and doing onto others..blah blah blah..darn rasta crud. Those horrible colors, the red and green and yellow really clash with some of the neighbors white picket fences.

September 25, 2009 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

Seems like there are some pretty reds, greens, and yellows being handled by mother nature out there right now?? Don't knock the colors.

September 25, 2009 at 6:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well, the stoner that moves in next to aich should have a license, just to be on the safe side. I wouldn't put it beyond aich to drop a dime to the DEA about his neighbor he spotted with a joint in his mouth. Never can be too careful in dealing with neighbors, ya know.

September 25, 2009 at 7:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

ahhh the pretty colors............

September 25, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

there you go bandmama

September 25, 2009 at 11:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

Fellow posters; Keep in mind that no matter how accurate or persusave your arguements to aichey are, he choses a side and nothing you say will change that. Further even if he agrees with something in your post, once he has displayed an opposing view he will not ever change his view to suport a point that an opposing debateer posts. This forum is pure debate for him, don't take it poorly if you don't feel that you can get through to him. Maybe we do, but he would be the last one to ever say that anyone did. Aicheydebate 101.

September 26, 2009 at 6:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich, I completely fail to understand how you keep tying MMJ to children........

Almost 100% of the posters on these forums discuss keeping out children safe from these substances. We are also seeing more literature and media advertising about the dangers in you medicine cabinet..

I do not beleive that Marajuana will be any more available to children than it is now. (Do you have any recent High School experience? Those students could tell you a few things about the availability of drugs in American High Schools).

Once again you have tried to tie together two unrelated issues to try and make your point.

As to the alchohol poisoning, why is it that the substance that is cabable of killing by consumption alone is legal but the one that is completely incapable of that remains illegal????? Please leave out the actions argument, we are discussing the substance here, not the people and their activities.

September 26, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

PS Aich, Your point about the Routt County Real Estate market being driven upwards by illegal drug profits is simply insane.

Either the drug problem is larger than our economy, or you are scared of the wind. Which is it?

You show your true conservative scare tactics when you bluster out such ridiculous ideas. Scary stories won't fix this problem either. It is time to end the "war on drugs" and begin a new era of treatment and education.

September 26, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

And you all continue to dodge the issue.

It seems that you assume humans have a need to abuse intoxicating substances as part of daily life. It's just not so.

You are all lucky to be able to make a living (or have one handed to you) that is compatible with marijuana abuse or licensed medical use. My question to you is whether you are providing the best opportunities for your families along the way. Sobriety, ambition and reliability are enviable traits in bread winners. If you are giving your spouses and kids the best you can, then nobody has a reason to complain. It's just that when we look at the broad population and see heads of families who are substance abusers (including alcohol and tobacco -- shoot, might as well include fattening food too), we usually see members of their families who have to compensate in some way.

McKenzie Phillips is in the news as a victim of incest. We know about her drug problems going back to her teenage years. I have known personally seven different women who grew up in substance abusing families who were molested by their father, step father, or siblings. Maybe the substance abuse was just another bad behavior that goes along with a lack of respect for societal boundaries and mores, but when you are prone to such acts, using anything that lowers your inhibitions and having a victim around who either can't complain, or can be kept silent through intimidation, sets up a perfect scenario for sexual abuse to go along with the substance abuse.

There are very few people with so-called "problems" who only have one problem. There are obviously some innocent victims who are harmed by others, but one "bad" behavior tends to go along with others among the perpetrators.

People who are responsible for hiring employees for positions of trust avoid those with drug and alcohol problems. You are going to limit your income and harm your job security by being known as a substance user. The fact you're living in a town that accepts open drug abuse as a way of life may be fine for now, but things can change. All it's going to take is a few law-abiding, ambitious immigrants from southwest Asia to come in and buy up homes and businesses as they become available, and jobs for pot users and alcohol and drug abusers will disappear.

Our societal standards have slipped over the past 30-40 years and the economic crash of last year is a direct result. Allowing people to be free and easy in the belief they will act responsibly turned out to be a bad idea. The fact there were no consequences for many years led to extreme consequences in the end.

It will be the same way, in the end, for irresponsible drug use. History proves it. People who have been around here for 20-30 years already know how it turned out for the ones who couldn't handle it. They're not here anymore.

September 27, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Skifreelivelove (anonymous) says...

Hey Aich,

I am coming up with a business plan to open a store in town that has signs which all contain pictures of cannabis leaves. This store does not involve medical marijuana but the products I will be selling have to do with legalization. The store will be named in tribute to you since you gave me the idea. But just to let you know the signs have big old cannabis leaves on them which you can see from a mile away. I hope you are proud that a small business is using cannabis leaves for all the advertising of legal products. Thanks Aich

September 26, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

wow. I have never assumed that legal mj dispensary should be steered toward children. stupid point.
you are so very lucky that you dont ever have to choose the lessor of two evils, for the rest of us who choose to live among other humas, well...we have to to choose or deal with it. perhaps if you would deal with people face to face instead of on line you would have a better understanding of the real world.
I do have to give you some "brownie" points though... we as Americans are way over medicated. Again why some choose a more natural or holistic approach. so in short you spout verbal feces of a subject that you try to assume that you know about. You dont.
As far as the unfortunate death of the youngster...most will choose beer. Not a point in this chat.
And, i have to assume that you are not a parent, or if you are I feel so sorry for the overbearing arrogant lifestyle you choose for your kids, (are they in therapy?) by making MJ seem not so off limits you in short take some of the fun and taboo out of it. Remember NoDoz anyone....in high school alot of dumb butts thought that was cool. At any rate, mraoch is correct. Aichy isn't amongst the realistic,I wonder if the powder blue leisure suit id ready for the cocktail saturated Christmas party???

September 26, 2009 at 5:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

oh yeah.... the colors are even better today!
only a few more weekends...I am going to go finish enjoying mine.

September 26, 2009 at 5:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Once again, simply ridiculous.

The points you attempt to make in your comments seem to revolve around a central, however incorrect, concept that involves marijuana being the worst evil in society today. Your argument seems to be, "of all the bad things in America, including crack, booze abuse, drunks hitting/killing people with their cars, child molestation and tobacco induced cancer, none of them compare to the evils of this devil's lettuce. In fact, using this substance will make you do all the other things and worse. And there is no substance use, just abuse." Somewhere in your propaganda washed brain, a connection has been drawn between cannabis and evil. Therefore, all cannabis users are abusing it, they are evil and they will murder your wife and kids the first chance they get.
For those of you out there that have seen the "documentaries" concerning the "evils of weed," you already know how ridiculous these films, and the points/facts they attempt to claim as true, truly are. Claims such as, "supporting weed means supporting the COMMIES," "you will become inseparable from your couch and subsequently useless to society," "prolonged usage of this weed will lead to nothing short of insanity," and my most recent favorite, "the money all of you losers spend on your weed goes straight to funding terrorism."......really?, terrorism. I sure would love to see the data and facts these geniuses used to come up with this crap. Is this country honestly going in the direction of classifying it's citizens as terrorism supporters, or even terrorists themselves? Really?!?!?! As someone who's been medicating for some time now, I can assure you that there are very few, if any, people out there that are getting drugs from terrorists. The idea that the Taliban or Al Qaeda is bringing pot into the US in order to support it's efforts against us, is 100% BS. Your government will tell you whatever they see fit in order to keep in line. Just look at aich.

September 27, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I challenge you aich. I challenge you to take an hour and a half out of your busy pothead bashing day to watch a movie. It' a Showtime production called, "In Pot We Trust" and it documents the lives of some people who would, otherwise, be useless to society, and even their own families, if they did not have marijuana to quench the symptoms of their respective illnesses. All you have to do is Google it. IF you have the intestinal fortitude to stomach watching this documentary, I commend you. If you refuse to take the time to watch this, you are just another ignorant sheep. You obviously possess very little factual knowledge on the subject and in attempting to debate with people that do possess the facts, it makes you sound like one of those people that just plugs their ears, close their eyes and start blabbing, "bla, bla, bla....I can't hear you!!! Lalalalalala!!!"
Ironically, the solution to the marijuana "problem" in our society will not be found or helped by the people that refuse to acknowledge the validity of the legalization stance. Simply choosing to ignore the other side of the argument only serves to widen the gap between people that get it and those that don't.

September 27, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Your movie is just more propaganda for the abuse of cannabis.

I've said over and over that people who have a valid medical need for it should have it.

My problem is the number of people who seem so anxious to qualify for the medical stay-out-of-jail free card.

The social cost and consequences of marijuana abuse do not justify its legalization for other than medical purposes. The fact that marijuana is supposedly "not as bad" as other plagues such as alcohol does not justify legalization.

Whatever problem you have when you light up is still going to be there after the stuff leaves your system.

Do you ever forget to take your marijuana medicine? Are there times when you don't take it because you don't need it? Or, are you always looking forward to your next dose?

Habitual use of intoxicating substances has been a plague on our society forever. Drunkenness has destroyed lives and families for thousands of years.

The move to legalization is a veil that chronic abusers want to throw over the underlying problems in their own heads. They want to normalize an anti-social behavior. The only rational justification is, "Everybody does it."

Human beings are predators, and there will always be some who prey on others. We live in a fairly safe and isolated society here in the mountains, but it's quite different in other places. There are way more people who don't need the extra problems than there are those who might benefit.

A clear mind is the greatest asset anyone can bring to the workplace or to a relationship. Self-sufficiency, self-support and obedience to the laws that govern us are civic responsibilities. If 95% of the population could do those things while legally using pot, nobody would oppose it. The fact is that pot abuse goes along with crime, absenteism, poverty and underemployment. It doesn't raise anybody up, and helps to drag people down, just like alcohol and coke and all the others.

I have learned the hard way that substance abusers, legal and illegal, are not people I want to be around, and I sure don't want to do business with them. Good help is hard to find around here, and apparently, smoking pot doesn't make anybody do a better job or itch to get there on time or even show up when promised. Maybe if I smoked pot too, I wouldn't care. Is that what you're trying to tell me?

September 28, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I should have listened to the people that tried to warn me. I think instead of continuing this any further, I'm going to go beat my head into a wall because that will obviously produce more results than talking to you aich. You are a complete waste of time.

September 28, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Oh my....
Aichy-so by your arguement, anyone who drinks, smokes, takes a puff or uses any prescription med for whatever purpose automatically is a pervert and doesn't take care of the family? WOW.
FYI- I work, always have. Sometimes more than one job.
My husband, Works-currently three jobs.
My child happens to have an IQ I guarantee much higher than yours. And yes, have excellent grades. We have a super relationship with him, and yes we do know where is is at most times, with the exceptions of early out days at school when he occationally goes to Mcdonalds with his friends for lunch (There have been a time or two that he neglected to text or phone us and tell us....that horrible child.)
At no time has he ever been abused in any way shape or form.
His father and I are getting ready to celebrate 24 years together, and yes this is a first marriage for both of us, and neither has had any other children/affairs.
Please...PLEASE explain how you can so easily, Blatantly and without due reason lump every person in such a stupid little bubble?
BTW-you didn't address the question, are you a parent?

September 28, 2009 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I guess the line between stoner and patient is pretty fuzzy to him.

September 28, 2009 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Looks that way.
It is a shame really.
I agree that no, we shouldn't have a 10 foot neon MJ sign, and there is other terminology that can be used besides "The Reefer Store"....but still.
I wonder if Aichy realizes how many people who use medications, prescribed or natural in the course of a day, just to be able to make through the day? So many could be sitting at home collecting welfare and not doing anything besides rating Jerry Springer episodes. I think some fail to recognize the difference between pain management and addiction. Although a very fine line sometimes, it can make all the difference in the world to some. Including making/helping them be productive members of society, not always the loosers he feels many are/would be.
I wonder how he feels about the major meds that MS patients use? Yes, they can effect how they think as can the pain they are taking the meds for. Which would be better I wonder, the original pain, or side effects of meds that may allow them to finish the day at work?
Has anyone herd of "cluster headaches"? A very real affliction for some. including someone very dear to me. They are believed to be caused in part to blood vessel abnormalities in the brain, causing pain beyond imagination. This person suffered for years, took pain med after pain med, anti-depressants, Lithium for petes sake, no help, no relief. Finally had a dr who recomended methadone as an additional treatment to hypertensive drugs. This person wouldn't do it, oh my...HERION ADDICTS used that drug and what would his pharmacist think????? After about a year, the pain got so bad that he tried it, with a constant watchful eye of a physician who was willing to go out on a limb, for the first time in 30 years this person can function. And no longer feels as if he is going crazy. No, it wasn't MJ, but an unconvential treatment all the same. that worked for this patient. This patient who takes methadone daily, is he an evil detrement to society? No way. He raised three kids and is working on his 9th grandchild. Worked everyday of his life and owns his home and debt free. He just happens to take a drug that many feel is "bad" Oh darn.
A very fine line between addiction and management.
Does Aichy have a point with his rants of addicts? In some ways yes. But he would do himself a favor to open his heart and not be so judgemental of people who dont live as he does and are trying to do the best they can.

September 28, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Gosh dang it.....didn't spell check, swear I am not under the influence of anything Aichy.........HA!

September 28, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Bandmama,

Obviously, you are a person who cannot figure out the difference between a user and an abuser.

Obviously, you are a person who didn't read the part where I said a valid medical need should be filled.

Yes, I'm a parent. Got two in college.

Your little story is very enlightening, but it hinges on the fact that a physician prescribed pain medication for someone who needed it. I fail to see how that has any relationship whatsoever to drug-seeking behavior by otherwise healthy people.

How about getting your kid to explain it for me in writing. I'm sure we'd all like to see a genius at work.

September 29, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich, I know you probably can't fit this under your column of "first time someone told me that," but you're a real jerk.

September 29, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas. It's all a matter of perception.

Would it bother you very much to know that I don't care what you think?

September 29, 2009 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

oh my.....
Aich- first of all, yes I am fully aware of the difference between a user and an abuser.
Next..... I am glad you appreciated my little "story" I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed your little tale of the seven molested women.
Next....I am so glad you are a parent. I imagine that you are having a blast finding out what illegal drugs are on the campus of your childs choice.
Next... If you have NO issue with a prescribed substance, why the heck are you so adamently opposed to the little store mentioned so long ago in the article?
Next.... I was using my child as an example to the fact that as teenagers, his dad and I were stupid teenagers, but we did go on to have productive lives and are raising a child that yes, any parent would be proud of.
Next... as far as a genius, LOL! You are so apt at showing the back side of one, I dont think we need another.
Next....in answer to one of your rambling questions, no I am not an MJ user. I only use part of the plant for MY personnal treatment of a disorder, the hemp hearts. (which by the way, ever check out the benefits?)
Next......I am sure that you realize that there is not a dr in Steamboat that would hand an underage child wearing a tie dyed shirt a script for pot, right? And I am pretty darn sure that the fine young men running the place know that they are being watched as closely as a steak by a starving dog. I imagine that in a town such as this that they will be monitored very well.
Now... You do realize that when one is so adamently against any substance that may hinge on the outside of routine practices, it makes it so much harder for those who may benefit to obtain it. A closed minded one sided view is not the way of progress. Sometimes you have to explore and research something to find all the benefits as well as the nasty little side effects.
And no, I am not suggeting that you smoke a little weed, would be a complete waste of the weed. I do agree with you that there are lazy people in all walks of life, and yes many do "use" or "abuse" a substance. There are also just as many folks who work their little behinds off to make ends meet. It isn't wise to group humans into one little nutshell or to generalize people. you do sound like a well learned person. I hope you realize how lucky you are that you have had opportunites that it seems your fellow Steamboat residents have not. As most in your view are all pot smoking hippies.

September 29, 2009 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Very simple solution Repeal the failed Controlled substances act and begin to treat the problem of drug abuse as the medical problem that it is.

October 1, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Hey, Mama,

Yes, I am fully aware of substance abuse on campuses.

I'm pretty much aware of everything you wrote.

I have had NO opportunity that my fellow residents did not have. I only spent 25 or so years of my life working my way up as a result of having taken the opportunities. It was a lot of hard work.

My whole point in this thread was that marijuana has negative connotations to many people who come here with their families, and Steamboat is a family ski resort. That's why we rate so poorly on nightlife. Kids ski free, right?

We don't need a store visibly engaged in selling pot on Lincoln Avenue to offend those who oppose its use on any grounds that may be important to them. One would presume that any person authorized to purchase pot from a provider who is registered with the state to provide pot to a specific mmj licensee would be able to find them without a neon sign in the shape of a cannabis leaf on the front door. That's all.

I've been around pot smokers since I was in college. My roomate smoked pot. The fact that he flunked out twice before being told "don't come back" and finally got his bachelor's degree from an "easy" commuter school seven years after I got mine (the same month I got my MS as a matter of fact) from the top school in the country for my major should tell you something. He had better SAT scores and better grades than I had in high school. He discovered pot in college and there . . he . . . . went . . . . .

I was around pot smokers in the Navy. I helped kick a few of them out. I peed in a lot of cups to prove I was not using the stuff.

I was subject to random drug testing for 15 years before taking a job where the work was not at as high a level of classification.

Don't think I don't know what's going on with pot smokers. I've had to deal with it around here for years. I knew how to recognize it because of the ones I was around in the Navy. It ain't that hard.

I'm no more against pot for valid medical use than I am against vicodin or aspirin for valid medical use. I just hate to see people wasting their lives and using pot to cover up their own reality. Same with booze. It's a waste of a life, and it's sad.

September 29, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Aich-
Many of of have worked hard. What jobs we have is not always due to drug use, lack of funds for college or maybe lack of encouragement by the adults in our lives?
My hubby worked his way up on the ladder and is now GM for one of the worlds largest companies, but never went to college, no money and no guidance as a youngster, hard work.
And yes, MJ does have a bad connotation. Beer and cigarettes are also bad, and bad for you yet there are more liquer stores in this town than churches. Seems to be a double standard.
As far as the night life, when there are no stores open late at night and many many bars....why would children be a turning point in the rating of the night life? As an adult and parent, sorry, night life is for adults, not children. There are ample activities for the kiddies in the day time.
As far as experience...uh, my on line name? BANDmama... when married to a working musician for so many years, and working in many College towns, yeah you get to know the signs. Also...for eleven years I was the person waiting for the cup you peed in. State certified. And yes, due to that, I also filled many a cup also.
People who waste thier lives smoking or whatever ususally have reasons for wanting an escape. It isn't usually the drugs themselves, it is most likely the reason that they started using in the first place.
Whatever, as far as the signs, I am still in favor of "Boom Sticks"
What do you feel would be appropriate?

September 29, 2009 at 5:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

HA! Marijuana just had a nice little spot on the Today show. Apparently, this whole "jacked up economy/country/government" thing is really getting some people down. Good thing they something to go to besides pharmas and hooch. They didn't even bring anyone on the show that had any big issues with marijuana. It's about time marijuana gets some positive light shed on it.

September 30, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Bandmama,

How about an address on a door and a buzzer to push for admittance? How about business by appointment only since the hours are limited anyway.

In business terms, a storefront is not economically viable anyway. You'd have to sell a lot of pot at a high markup to pay the rent. More likely, it's a place and a premise for traffickers and users to meet and a reason why someone in a vehicle would be in possession of marijuana ("uh, oh yeah, I just came from/am on my way to the dispensary.")

I'll grant you this, however. I wouldn't want people coming to my home for the stuff, so some other place to hand it out makes sense. Why advertise the fact you've got a large quantity of marijuana in your home and invite break-ins?

I'm sorta surprised that one of our prominent local attorneys hasn't volunteered space in his law offices since he seems to know most of the marijuana users in town anyway.

September 30, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cheesehead (anonymous) says...

If you think medical MJ is alright but are against the way its distributed, the best solution would be to legalize it on a national level and treat it like all other medications.
My grandpa had a word for people who looked down on how others make an honest days pay(baggers, trash collectors etc....) He called them A%&holes.

September 30, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Yeah?

My grandpa (a city bus operator with a sixth-grade education) used to drive me through the nice neighborhoods with the nice houses and nice cars and say, "You're going to go to college when you grow up so you can live in a neighborhood like this one, instead of ours." He worked 5 nights a week (extra pay for working until midnight) and scored a final working wage of $5.00 per hour before he retired. He was only shot at a couple of times, and luckily, was never injured. He knew where he fit in, and why, and understood that he was trapped in poverty by his lack of education; but he never did anything to improve his education despite many years of opportunities for adult education sitting right there in front of him. He was satisfied with, "I can't," when it really meant, "It's too hard." It was easier to come in after midnight, sleep until 10, listen to the ball game on the radio and then leave for work at 2 PM for over 25 years.

My other grandpa was a fireman on the railroad when that involved shoveling coal. That job was an improvement when he moved up from share cropper. He eventually became an engineer, but retired rather than seek treatment for alcoholism. It was years after he died of cigarette smoking before it finally dawned on me why he was never allowed to take me for a ride in his car - he was drunk, of course. Stayed that way most of the time. I thought it was his cologne I always smelled when we went to visit him.

I don't look down on the way anybody make a living. I feel sorry for people who could do better for themselves if they were willing to sober up and work harder.

I have made my living with a shovel and a hammer and a trowel, and by washing dishes. I didn't find anything wrong with any of those jobs except the low pay at the end of the week. I know how easy it is to do better if you care enough to try. Doing a good job for the guy who writes the paychecks seems to be the magic solution. Oops . . . did I write that? It's supposed to be a secret, I think.

Or maybe it's just a secret around here, eh?

September 30, 2009 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Mama,

I was not sympathizing with the college "friend." I was giving an example of how a kid who doesn't know about doing without things deals with life, and how a kid who has had to hear "we can't afford it" all her life wants something better.

I think you're missing the point that a licensed dispensary has to be tied to specific patients. Do you expect somebody with a MMJ license to stroll in and windowshop before making a selection? I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.

What about the MMJ patient who pays for his medicine, lights up outside in the VW Micro Bus before driving away, and gets into an accident while DWAI. Even though the feds may not be prosecuting licensed users, that doesn't mean that the dispensary operator can't be sued for selling a controlled substance which contributed to an accident and resulted in injuries. And, which insurance companies do you suppose are going to cover a dispensary operator for dealing in a substance that's illegal under federal law.

A single lawsuit against a dispensary operator will settle the question for good. It's obvious that people are not thinking this issue through from a legal standpoint and considering the risks associated with product liability. Blue Cross/Blue Shield regularly attempts to recover the costs of providing care for accident victims, and a MMJ dispensary operator would be a prime target.

As long as the Controlled Substances Act remains in force and marijuana is a listed substance, anyone injured by a MMJ patient has a cause of action against the user and the supplier. Civil court is a plague on the medical profession already, so there's no reason to expect that it won't be a plague on medical marijuana too.

This is just one of the reasons why the States that attempt to thwart federal law will not succeed in the long run. Irresponsible users will ruin it for everybody else, and that's why the stuff is illegal in the first place. Some people cannot use pot responsibly, so everyone has to do without it, just like all the other controlled drugs which are subject to abuse.

October 1, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Aich, again, you are spouting off with no real basis at all to your thoughts.....

When an mmj patient purchases meds from a dispensary, they first sign a form stating that the dispensary is not reponsible if the patient is irresponsible with the meds purchased. When DUI laws stiffened in the 80's and bartenders were held responsible, if was because the tender knowingly continued to allow a person to get obliterated and dance off to their car and drive home. At a dispensary, it is not legal to allow the patients to medicate on site. They are meant to go home and responsibly use their medicine. At a pharmacy, there are warning labels on the packaging, the actual bottle and the form you fill out when you fill your first "miracle-script." and all these warnings clearly takes all burden off the pharmacy (aka Chemical Dispensary) if the person goes nuts with their pill-poppin' frenzy. So, keep racking your brain to think of ways that the mmj community will fail, but if you haven't noticed, were are almost a decade into this in Colorado and even longer on the West Coast. In California, being that nearly 1,000,000 people are registered patients now in Cali, these outlandish fantasys of yours are exactly that... Phantasys!!

October 1, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cheesehead (anonymous) says...

Someone out there makes more money than you.... should they feel sorry and look down on you? Should they apply your logic and assume you're a person of no value?
Just because someone doesn't make what you consider an acceptable amount of money does not mean they don't have a work ethic or won't do a good job for the guy writing the paychecks.

September 30, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

I agree cheesy, up to a point.

There are a lot of people around who don't look down on you for what you do or how much you make, but they also don't care about the trials and troubles that less fortunate people have to deal with. All I can say to them is I hope they are prepared for a day when they may fall on hard times, because it can happen to anyone.

Millions lost their retirement savings and security, and some of them lost their homes as a result. What about Bernie Madeoff's victims?

It's possible to be very happy on very little money if you arrange your life properly. It's also possible to create a living hell for your spouse and kids. The difference is whether you have thought out what can go wrong, and whether you can survive if something does.

Most people are only limited by their own lack of willingness to advance. That's fine, but then they shouldn't complain about it when they are left behind financially. The world can pass you by without honking before you know it. At least most of us around here don't have to worry about floods. Be glad you're not a dishwasher living in an apartment in American Samoa this morning.

I know a college kid whose girlfriend broke up with him over the weekend because he told her he is switching from pre-med to education and he's going to be a football coach. She's going to be a doctor. Both of them are 18 and haven't completed the first semester of school yet. The difference is that she comes from a working-class family while his family is upper middle class. He thought they'd be okay because she will make enough money for him to be a coach and do what he wants instead of what pays well.

This is real life. Doesn't get more real. Attitudes and expectations mean something to people who've had to struggle to have a decent life. She wants a man who can support her without struggling, and unfortunately, that's what he wants too . . .

September 30, 2009 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cheesehead (anonymous) says...

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

September 30, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Me either. It was a cut and paste from a parent magazine website.

September 30, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Aich- LOL! About the lawyer....
As far as a buzzer , good point, but you do bring up something to think about, the "handouts" after the script is filled. So, as ususal
I have a solution. Why not tattoo the patient on the forehead with a bright neon paint that lasts for up to 8 hours stating:
"Just Filled My Script, feel free to look in my pockets..."
Just an idea.............
Appointments are also a good idea, but seeing as how most of the town runs on "SteamBoat Time" I dont think it would work well. You know?
As far as your college kid friend, can you really blame the girl? Anyone?
"Oh Gee Honey, I have decided that you can work your butt off, and support me. I just want to have fun and enjoy life"
"But Dear, when you asked me to marry you, you were going to work as hard as me and we were going to share the burden!"
"But Honey! Come on! you come from nothing and will be able to deal with nothing so much more than I!"
yeah, I bet that went over really well!

September 30, 2009 at 5:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Chronie,

A pharmacy is legally entitled to dispense medications in accordance with federal law.

A medicial marijuana dispensary is not.

There is no way that a person can sign away their right to compensation for damage resulting from criminal activity. This point is codified in federal law. If an innocent party is harmed as a result of use or distribution of an illegal substance, or illegal use or distribtuion of a legal substance, the victim has a right to seek compensation for it from everyone involved in the process. So, those running a dispensary are at risk, and most insurance companies specifically state in their policies that liability resulting from criminal activity is not covered.

It's called racketeering under federal law. Look it up.

October 1, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So, following along the same path of "logic" here, gun shop owners are to be treated as accomplices to murders committed with a firearm?

I've said it once, and I'll probably end up saying it a thousand more times but, you're ridiculous. In fact, I think the record of comments here shows that you are the most deserving of ridicule.

October 1, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Aich, you are completely wrong. I did not say that someone was signing away their right to compensation for damage resulting from criminal activity (<<<whatever the F#%k that means.....) .....I said the patient assumes all the responsibility personally. It is not the dispensary's fault or repsonsibility. Just like is is not the gun shop owner's resopnsibility when someone shoots someone else....thanks mmj). And the Federal Government, as you know, is not trying to supercede State Law. It's a waste of Federal Govt's time and crooked money. Hence the reason that these disclaimers, that are signed at a dispensary, DO hold up in the court of law.

Maybe, not if you were the judge, but if you were a judge, it seems that your community would resemble a Nazi Concentration Camp.....where if the people under performed, made mistakes, even had the wrong color of skin, or maybe smelled funny, or were flawed in any way.... Then you'd drop the hammer. Pretty soon, in Aichemptyville, everyone's in jail and Captain Aich-o-knowledgable, the town's judge, law enforcer, mayor and dictator, owns everything, handles everything and everything is just perfect. HA! ya right

October 1, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

It's not the same logic at all.

It's legal to sell guns to authorized buyers under federal law.

If a gun shop owner sells to someone without getting a background check, then yeah, he's civilly liable for damage caused by the gun.

In order to have the protections of the law, you have to obey the law. Dancing around in a gray area is asking for trouble, and this is just one example of why the state medical marijuana laws are void under federal law.

October 1, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Aich-I wan't implying that you were sympathizing. In fact if you carefully read between the lines, I dont blame the gal at all. Smart woman.
I honestly have never been given a script for weed, thus have never had one filled so no I really dont know how one would windowshop for weed. Nor do I care.
As far as the VW bus comment, again you are stereotyping, not a nice thing to do for one and I am pretty sure that there are also laws about lighting one up behind the wheel, medical need or not. Sort of trumps the liability of the dispensary, I would think. Dont know for a fact and honestly dont want to debate the issue with you.
Something to think about though, if one is prescribed say...oh....Percocets, and they take say maybe three times the dose and gets into a car and has an accident, I dont think that the pharmacy would be held responsible, maybe the dumb*ss who took the extra meds and possibly the doctor. Anyone have any recollection of any pharmacy being held responsible for the patient who didn't follow directions? Curious.
(Hey "Windowshop for Weed" Name for the little store?????)

October 1, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Mama,

You are correct. If the pharmacy acted in accordance with the law and the required warnings, they would not be liable.

The problem with a marijuana dispensary is that such a thing is not legal anywhere under federal law. It's in a gray area, as I said. For that matter, the whole State of Colorado is in a gray area with pot, and permitting its use under state law is in direct conflict with federal law.

For example, the State cannot issue a license to fly an airplane. If the State did such a thing, it would not be valid on the National Airway System and anyone attempting to operate an airplane under a State license would be liable to federal prosecution. A state-issued marijuana license is no different in principle. In fact, people using MMJ in a state that doesn't license it are breaking the law AND subject to federal prosecution even under President Obama's executive order. Try taking your MMJ through customs and see what happens.

I'm not against compassionate use of the stuff, but people are fooling themselves to think they can't get into trouble. They can. People who operate a dispensary are risking their personal assets to sell an unlawful substance to unlawful users. If harm to a third party occurs as a result, that third party has a great case in federal civil court.

We had a guy suffocate himself in a rental unit without a smoke detector because he passed out from intoxication. If the same thing happened to a MMJ patient, the person who supplied the pot would be equally liable with the owner of the unregistered and not-up-to-code rental unit. That's how the law works, and people can go broke very quickly fighting a lawsuit even when they are 100% in the right. If the guy who suffocated had been a minor who passed out from alcohol, the person who supplied the alcohol would be in the same situation.

I'm sure our chronically pained poster will come back and call me an idiot, but that doesn't change the truth. Growing your own MMJ is one thing, but growing it for somebody else opens up a big can of worms, with lots of potential consequences. Drug companies have the same liabilities, but they also have insurance because their business is legal.

October 1, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Aich-
Very well spoken, and very valid points....all I can say is that aren't you glad this isn't your venture?
And lets face it, at this point if people need/want it they are going to get it anyway.
This is a battle that has been around for a very long time and will be here for some time to come. There is no easy answer.
Although think of the tax revenues...... if made legal.

October 1, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

bandmama, you're right. The revenues created from legalization would be more than enough to help everyone out a little bit. Maybe even aich. And aich, you're right too. I am going to get back on here and call you an idiot(actually the original term was ridiculous). So, congratulations for being so right about something.
You seem to be under the impression that you might be able to persuade someone to take the stance of righteousness and/or justice on this issue by assailing the comment board with all this ribble-rabble about big bad federal law and stoned drivers running over poor, little innocent children dressed in swaddling clothes.
The fact of the matter is that you are not on the side of the majority and you have very ignorant, or non-factual, opinions and/or beliefs that get you no-where in this "debate" over the rights and wrongs of pot. In fact, there aren't a whole lot of people out there that can piece together a reasonable argument for continuing the current marijuana prohibition. So, don't feel bad.
My suggestion would be to stop wasting your time looking up, concocting or rehearsing all these silly little stories and possible legal implications and all of the other BS you've posted on here. I recommend you take a vacation to somewhere warm. Jamaica maybe. Get a chance to enjoy the local culture, meet the people. Hell, might even learn something about being a decent human being down there. Who knows?

October 1, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

Achy, I would be interested in how your faith shapes how you feel about substance abuse. I was a Deadhead during my time in college, and went to a Methdist university that required study of the bible, and witnessed similar patternes between the stoned Deadheads that thought Jerry was God and the smalltown brainwashed Christians that knew very little about the bible, or who the histroical Jesus was, but fully belived anything that you told them came from the Bible. Do you think that Jesus could have been a substance user, and that his diciples all tripped with him on somehitng he found in the desert during his self imposed exile?( when he dropped out of semanary school to wander in the desert and "find himself") Maybe his substsance use was the catalyst for his anti-governent/priest rebellious attitudes, and ultimatly led him to have a less than average concern about the threat the jewish leaders had for his life. He did hang out/minister to prostitutes and other low lifes of that age. Refernces to his use of MJ or other substances could have easily been removed during the rewrite of the Bible in the Middle Ages to "correct" the testement of his divinity. Comments?

October 2, 2009 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, you are very imaginative. I was born, raised and trained in the church. The end-game that both of my parents hoped, and hope, for is/was that I go into the ministry and work tirelessly towards the goal of reaching souls for jesus and his dad. I was all about it all the way up into my early 20's. I was provided the opportunity a while back to watch a film, talked about above, called Zietgiest. It's a very interesting film that goes into the specifics about the historical data behind the foundational institutions in our country and how those institutions affect the daily life of people that subject themselves to those systems. This film is what ultimately made me question the religion that has been rammed down peoples throats for centuries. My conclusion, after seeing the film and comparing it to what my own experiences have shown me, is that most of what has been told to us throughout Sunday school and sermons is nothing more than a big fancy story. That's it.

This, at least to me, negates the "fact" that jesus/god could have been a pothead. There is not a single piece of evidence that has ever been produced that has ever proven the existence of god/heaven/hell and all the other great things they talk about in the bible. Most, in Christianity, would say that this is where "faith" comes in and takes over. They say that faith overcomes all of the facts and details to provide them with comfort. Well, faith is all fine and good, but faith does not prove any points either. Faith is merely the stubborn belief in something that isn't tangible or provable.

Anywho....the long and short of it is that IF jesus ever existed, sure he might have been a pothead. But what good does that do us now?

October 2, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Roach,

Well, it's interesting that you think a Methodist university would have anything to do with Christianity. I was raised in the Methodist church, and find that it's pretty much what its founders were like -- filled with doubt about whether anything to do with Christianity is actually real. You probably remember that John Wesley was one of several Anglican ministers who was so consumed with fear of death during a storm on their crossing of the Atlantic by ship that they all questioned their own faith in a Divine being when it was over.

I don't know whether Jesus used intoxicants. I don't know if he was married and had kids. I don't care. My personal opinion is that the Dark Ages were brought on by His second coming and that we in the present day are living during the time of tribulation, waiting for Armageddon. The fact that all of the literate people (who were priests, monks and nuns) seemed to disappear from Europe around the beginning of the Dark Ages, while nothing similar happened in the Far East and Muslim nations, indicates to me that this is a plausible theory.

Here's the real issue. Does drug use glorify God, or does it take away from the advancement of his Kingdom? Does it help God's children, or hurt them?

According to Jesus (as told in the New Testament), love is the answer. Love does no harm. According to the Apostle Paul, it's not what you do, but what's in your heart when you do it, that differentiates sin from a righteous act.

It appears to me that people consumed with drug abuse pursue it like a religion. Some who recover using religion show the same addictive tendencies to their new-found cult.

For the most part, modern Christian denominations fall back to the Jewish model of attempting to obtain salvation by obeying a set of rules rather than by faith. To me, faith is not what I choose to believe, but is something that chose me. Sometimes going after a belief is not as good an idea as letting in what seems to be true in your own heart, and trusting God that it's right.

So, if something in your life feels like a burden, there's a reason why. If you think that marijuana being illegal is a burden, maybe the answer is to figure out why you feel that way. If smoking pot is a Godly thing for you, then I'd say you should be able to do so without worrying about it, and nothing bad will happen to you as a result. If it causes you concern, then it's not the law against it that's the problem. It's the way you're using it in spite of the law. A good thing (in the spiritual sense) should never feel bad, should it?

October 2, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

achy; Would you agree that legalization and MMJ use are simply another example of the decline of mankind? (supporting your end times theory)

October 3, 2009 at 7:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Wow! That explains a lot. You're a completely brainwashed byproduct of the system. You should have been given some sort of award for the level of BS you've accepted and absorbed.

October 2, 2009 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

You're probably one of those bible-beater types that believes in our military presence in the middle east based solely on the "fact" that we somehow have this moral, righteous and/or spiritual obligation to eliminate this "Muslim evil" from the face of the earth, huh?

October 2, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I've been in a church twice since 1990 that I can remember. Both times it was for a wedding (someone else's).

Try again. You got everything completely wrong.

So, you're one of them athiests, eh? That explains a lot. Much better to smoke pot than pray to be healed, right?

Prayer is just thought. Thought is the province of the brain. The brain controls the body. That's why the placebo effect works and can result in actual healing of physical afflictions. The ability to heal by faith is something that we all have. 99% of the things that go wrong with people will get better without medical care.

Prayer can heal your chronic pain; you can condition yourself not to feel it, or to secrete endorphins to relieve it. It's simply a matter of meditation and mind control which some people focus through religious imagery. No big mystery.

Meditation can also make you feel high if you can get out of your emotional cesspool long enough to concentrate on a higher state of being. Peyote and marijuana simulate the deep trance state in some ways, and that's why people find them appealing. Cheating to get there using drugs is the problem; you get the high without altering your emotional state along the way, and that's why you always want to go back for more drugs.

You'll never find what you're missing, because the drugs take you just so far, and then prevent you from getting to the end. It's sad, but hey, it's your life -- such as it is.

October 2, 2009 at 11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

What about the recently released stat that in some states drug overdose has overtaken driving fatalites as the leading cause of death? (Rx OD's)

October 3, 2009 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

As far as the religious side of life is concerned, that's a conversation for another time, on another comment board, far, far away from here. I realize that for some, the debate revolves around any number of deep rooted spiritual issues. However, for argument's sake, let's leave god and the rest of the story out of it. I don't think that any federal ruling on the matter will be resultant of vastly deep theological discussion. Ergo, moral/religious grounds for continued marijuana prohibition are a mute point.
It is true that the human body is an amazing piece of equipment. It heals itself, replenishes itself and even aspirates all on its own. However, if the body runs low on fuel, it does not simply create more. It might start to devour itself, but it will not sustain itself. If the body runs out of water, it does not create more. There are certain things that the body does and there are certain things the body does not do. I do not, personally, know what the physical limitations are of your body, but my body does not regularly produce enough dopamine to regulate the pain that I have dealt with on a daily basis since high school. I have discovered that I have to assist my body in producing the necessary levels of dopamine by regularly giving it abnormal levels of THC. Call me an addict, call me a junkie, whatever makes you feel better a night. But the truth of the matter is that you don't have the right, unless of coarse you're a doctor, to judge the severity of any individual's pain, nor do you have the right to tell any individual how to treat or deal with their respective pain. However, if you have discovered a way to meditate or pray the right amount, or any amount, of dopamine into the human body, then please, by all means, enlighten me. I know thousands, if not millions, of people that would love to know about it.

October 2, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Barring a genetic defect, dopamine deficiency should not be a physical affliction.

Somehow you turned it off. Unless there's physical damage to the cells that secrete it, they can be turned back on. I suspect that it's a genetic condition which caused the cells to shut down (like ovaries stop producing estrogen). It could be as simple as not eating your vegetables.

How many times do I have to say that compassionate medicinal use should be okay? That still doesn't resolve the ongoing legal issues, which are real, and mean that mmj is not for everybody.

October 2, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Roach,

It all sounds plausible to me. Civilizations have ended for other reasons that included people using toxic substances.

My basic premise is that people should be self-reliant and self-supporting once they reach adulthood. Drug abuse of any sort, including alcohol, can tip the scale from self-supporting to dependent on society, and when enough people are on the dole that the productive ones cannot keep up with the needs of all, the system collapses. The collapse of the Soviet Union is a perfect modern example of how a civilization fell because its productive efforts could not keep up with the needs of the citizens (but this included a massive military debt, of course, mandated by a dictatorial government).

I'm not trying to predict Armageddon or any of that nonsense. I'm just driving around the pot holes when I see them in time, and don't understand why others are not similarly motivated toward self-preservation.

Given a choice between food and cocaine, rats will choose coke until they die of starvation. There are people right here in town that have done pretty much the same thing. Our local vocal pro-drug segment of society seems to think that it's okay for other people to die of drug abuse as long as the drugs are available to the ones who want them. It's a victimless crime, they say. Right. Nice try.

The affordable housing crowd is concerned about our "community," but I wonder how many of those who are pro-affordable and those who so-called "need" affordable housing are also spending money on recreational substance abuse.

My sense of the problem is that there are many local people who are in a housing pinch and also use/deal drugs and also cheat on taxes (don't declare all of their income for one reason or another). Don't ask me how I know, but I know some who fit parts of this profile and it's not hard to fill in the blanks on others. Since undocumented loans are pretty much a thing of the past, I think we're going to see an out-migration of those who have been living in the underground economy and they will be replaced by people who live responsibly and pay taxes. Time will tell.

And as for the OD's being higher than traffic fatalities, I blame physicians and drug companies. The one person whose drug abuse I know the most about was a health care provider who used his medical license to provide controlled substances to criminals who resold them on the street for a profit. He escaped prosecution by fleeing the country for seven years until the heat died down. So, I'm pretty sure there are abuses going on in every possible way they can. The one thing that will save anybody is personal responsibility, however, and that's what our society lacks.

October 4, 2009 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It's obvious that aich has some sort of vendetta stored away for the potheads of this nation. It's also obvious that I'm not the only one who sees this. Aich, all of your drug rhetoric is nothing more than a culmination of a life time of fear. You're so damn worried about all the little stoners running rampant in your perfect little mountain town that you miss the real issues and problems that plague society. Or even worse, you equate all of the negativity, horror, murder, physical and mental abuse with the innocent people that burn a Marley down instead of taking a ride on some groovy pharmaceuticals or pickle their liver with vodka and scotch.
From the fervor and passion exuding from your previous comments, I would have expected more rants and raves about other bad things in society. Maybe you believe the story your government tells of how many other drugs marijuana will take you directly to. Maybe you believe that most potheads find a quiet spot, every so often, to mainline some heroin or something. Maybe you think along the same lines as the DEA douches that believe they're doing god's work by helping to eradicate this scourge from the face of the earth.
Maybe you disagree with the people that founded this nation, the likes of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, who knew that marijuana had more to offer than the peaceful bliss that enveloped them on a daily basis. They found out how useful the cannabis plant is and they prospered greatly from it. As a matter of fact, at one point in American history marijuana was a crop that was ordered to be cultivated under penalty of law. In other words, these patriarchal potheads made a law stating that every farmer HAD to cultivate some, not all, of their land with marijuana. They thought that it was such a valuable resource they made it illegal to NOT help produce some. They took the means that they had at hand and they built a navy and a frikin nation out of it. This would not be the last time that our country mandated the production of a resource during times of crisis. Remember anything about what we did during WWII? Almost over night, our president ordered car manufacturers to become tank and plain factories in support of our men and women "over there."
You have repeatedly connected countless issues to marijuana usage that have little, to nothing, to do with anything. I would once again implore you to do some independent research on the topic at hand. Go online and search out some videos made by people that believe this costly drug war has been allowed to exist for far too long. I dare you to educate yourself on the other side of the issue because, at this point, it appears painfully obvious that you are stubbornly ignorant of the other side of the issue. I dare you to listen. I dare you to comprehend what the argument is really about.

October 4, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

"My sense of the problem is that there are many local people who are in a housing pinch and also use/deal drugs and also cheat on taxes (don't declare all of their income for one reason or another). Don't ask me how I know, but I know some who fit parts of this profile and it's not hard to fill in the blanks on others. Since undocumented loans are pretty much a thing of the past, I think we're going to see an out-migration of those who have been living in the underground economy and they will be replaced by people who live responsibly and pay taxes. Time will tell"

There you go again blaming the run-up in real estate prices on the illegal drug trade. I call you for facts on this. DO YOU HAVE ANY, or is this just another "Aichism"?

I have never downplayed the problem of drug abuse, but I have separated the issues of drug use and drug abuse. The costs of drug use and abuse to our society at large is smaller than the problems being caused by the black market supply chain. Why do you never respond to this poiint?

Your opinion that "Drugs are Bad" is not at fault here. The blind spot seems to be somewhere in the middle of drug use, drug abuse and the current legal status of "some" of the prolem substances. It is my contention that substance "x" is not the root problem here The root problem as you have stated is personal responsibility. How do drugs being illegal get at the root of the responsibility issue?

October 4, 2009 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

"And as for the OD's being higher than traffic fatalities, I blame physicians and drug companies....The one thing that will save anybody is personal responsibility, however, and that's what our society lacks."

Why blame drug companies/doctors instead of the end user? Personal responsibility= responsibility for your own actions not blaming drug companies, or any one else.

October 4, 2009 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Wow aich! You really are twisted.
So, let me see if I've got this straight. Pot for cancer is good, but pot for MS is bad? WTF eh?

October 5, 2009 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I really hate the 3000 character limit they impose on comments. I think I'm gonna write my congressman.

October 4, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I watched part of "In Pot We Trust" tonight.

Wow. The guy treating himself for PTSD is a sympathetic character until you see him savoring the idea of one kind of pot to get him going in the morning, and another for evening. That's not a person taking medicine. That's a stoner just reveling in getting high. I can't think of a scene that would be more destructive to the medical marijuana cause than that one.

Mommy got her head blown off and junior is a pot head as a result. The guy may be mentally ill from that trauma, but he might be mentally ill anyway.

On the other hand, the story of the kid taking chemo for leukemia and pot letting him eat afterwards and escape nausea was compelling. I'm right there with you on this one.

Trump, to you I'll only say that there would be no addiction if personal responsibility would work. It won't. Personal consequences and consequences to others happen instead, and that's why legalizing everything and letting the chips fall will never happen. It makes no difference to me except for the collateral damage that would be caused by users harming others (traffic accidents, etc.) and failure to support families.

Honestly, the biggest thing wrong with this little mountain town is a lack of sophisticated people to talk to intelligently about a variety of interesting and important subjects. Very little national/world focus except artsy-fartsy fluff. Where has everyone's brain gone?

And Trump, I do have information, and it's from someone in a position to know who contacted ME about a related controversy I was involved in some time back. I'm just not going to name names here and commit libel. You're fishing. Let's just say that in certain professional communities around town, the extent and degree of drug trafficking is common knowledge, as well as the extent of money laundering, tax evasion and transactions based on inside knowledge from public proceedings. Prices would have gone up, regardless, but different people would own the property if proceeds from trafficking were not involved.

October 4, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

This is not the first time you have come onto this forum with evidence of a crime that for whatever reason you do not turn over to the proper law enforcement. Whatever happend to the "white collar" criminals that were rempaging your subdivision?nothing? Is this the same bunch that is pushing up RE values from drug trafficing? Don't you think the CBI would be interrested in a drug trafficing ring that is also fixing RE prices with there proceeds? I belive, Racketering is what that's called.

You need to talk to law enforcement instead of posting this type of baseless retoric. You posts reek of parnoid, are you sure that someone is not doping your water supply with MMJ?

October 5, 2009 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I really wish I knew that guy in the movie that had MS. I bet you wouldn't be so free and careless with you "opinions" if you were face to face with a real person. I'd love to see you tell that guy your position on his illness. I think it's so sad that you have to find the common enemy that your government has fooled you into believing is there and then proceed to ridicule that person, whom by the way, you don't even know. How ignorant!!! I guess he didn't appear sophisticated enough for your standards. Maybe his seizures weren't graceful enough for you to consider them worthy of sympathy. Did you miss the part in the movie where three tokes of some devil's lettuce almost immediately shut-down the seizures he was having? No it's not a permanent effect, but find something else that can stop seizures like that. Whatever the hell is going on in that sick little head of yours seems to have taken deep roots. I'd recommend you get out and get some help with that. If you let all that mean, ignorant, thoughtless, crowd-following, immature bias and hatred take too deep of a root in your life, pretty soon you'll be all alone and no one will want to talk to you. Have you ever been truly alone? I don't know how the people in your life deal with you, but I sure would like to know how they got patient enough to tolerate your presence and the poison that spills from your mouth.

October 5, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And as far as different strengths, flavors and strains goes, ever heard of cherry cough syrup? What about grape? How about 50mg ibuprofen? Ok, and 800mg ibuprofen?
How stupid would it be if there was only one strain, one flavor and one potency of marijuana? Last time I did any biology studying, I seem to recall there being many branches of each main limb in both the plant and animal kingdom. Do you have any idea how many different kinds of monkeys there are in the world? No you don't. But they're all monkeys. Have you ever been to a grocery store? Ever notice all those pretty colors in the apple section of the produce department? They all taste slightly different, but yet, texturally at least, all like apples. So, you're argument is, "that guy is a complete waste/addict/worthless abuser because he likes and knows the tastes of different stands of marijuana"? Really? Honestly? You're gonna have to do a whole hell of a lot better than that if you plan on making ANY headway in your argument.

October 5, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

julipj (anonymous) says...

Stereotyping POT Users is easy for some ignorant people like
"aic HEMP ty", i challenge u to the following, play poker or chess with me after i smoke a huge bowl, too difficult? maybe u don't even know how to move the pieces....what about an IQ test? i'm over 128 so far and increasing..... we'll see who the dumbass is my friend, wanna talk about politics, religion, science? let's light it up and see how smart you are, julian_evil666@hotmail.com is my mail in case u don't pussy out aic HEMP ty, we'll do it in spanish also how many languages u speak? cya

October 5, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Never fails to amaze me that simple stupidity and no ambition is NOT the reason for the lack of advancement for some folks. I didn't realize that ALL losers were stoners and vice versa. I always assumed that IQ might have played a part.
Wow, learn something new every day!
(yes, please note the dripping sarcasm..again.)

October 5, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Okay, you win.

Now what?

October 5, 2009 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Time for another thought provoking article, something to raise our dander?????

October 5, 2009 at 4:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It was best that you gave up aich. Maybe you'd like to try your debate skills with something a little easier. This isn't really one of those win-able ones for you.

October 5, 2009 at 7:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Holy BaJeezzus!!! I go outta town for a few days and this crap kept goin' on and on....

Here's my two cents!!.... After some nice Durban this morning to wake up, I enjoyed reading this! And the BananaOGKush that will put me at rest this eve has already calmed my nerves for the day ahead. And the IslandSweetSkunk tincture, if needed during the day, is always a safer and better choice than Ibuprofen. So.... On with life people! Keep seeking the truth!! :)

October 6, 2009 at 8:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The only thing this thread demonstrates is that marijuana is a psychologically addictive substance that should be used carefully under medical supervision to avoid harm to the users and to society.

Dopamine production and reception can be affected by toluene (glue sniffing) and cocaine. Dopamine deficiency is both a genetic and an acquired condition. Since I don't know your history, I can't say what happened in your case, but I will thank you for carrying this thread far enough for me to discover the connection. I learned something new, and as a result, I realize that some abusers cannot be cured. Therefore, I'll stop donating money to organizations that treat substance abuse, and put it where it will do more good . . . into green fees.

October 6, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Look all, you have finally won the arguement!!!! Aich is going to pay "Greens Fees" and join you.

Funny Aich, how much of yourself do you donate to what you consider worthy causes? We have discussed this before, have you found even one organization that could use some of your help? Your President has called you to service, have you answered that call?

You need to wake up and take off those rose coloured glasses of yours. The world has changed, the rules are different and some of your long held "facts" are being left behind in the minefield of history. Regardless of your opinions, there are a majority of people now that disagree with you and changes are coming. 13 states have legalized MMJ in some form, and 13 more currently have that legislation under discussion.

When put to a vote of the public, these laws usally pass with 55-60% Sounds to me like you are losing this debate on a large scale.

October 6, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

You beat me to it trump. I was logging in when you posted that last one. Green fees, that's where a lot of my money goes too.
Good to have you back nChronic.

and ps....there are actually 15 states deliberating the pros and cons of de-criminalizing cannabis for medical users.

October 6, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Wow. You guys really have been doing damage to your brains. How many times do I have to say that I agree with legal use of marijuana for medicinal purposes.

It's the unlimited recreational use aspect that I don't support.

It's ABUSE that I don't support.

Legalization for non-medical purposes is the thing that the population in general will never support.

Valid medical use under a physician's supervison is NOT ABUSE!

If you cannot understand the difference between use and abuse, then I'm not the one with the problem, and obviously, you are.

October 6, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Duke_bets (anonymous) says...

mmj - aich has won the debate.

nchron - Placing colorful names on drugs is fairly sad. That's how the kiddies label the crap.

juli - 128 IQ................Well, mine is 240 and I speak 13 languages. Smoke another bowl because you seem pissed. Why are you so mad at aich? He doesn't support pot smokers. Why should anyone?

October 6, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

I love it when people make statements with no knowledge of what they speak of....

Dukey, the names I spoke of above are NOT names the "kiddies" made up.... The Durban is a registered trademark of the Sensi Seed Bank in Amsterdam. The BananaOGKush is a name given by medical breeders and this medicine smells and tastes like Bananas naturally. In dispensaries, magazines and seed banks around the world, you will find plants with specific names. Indica, Sativa and Ruderalis are all "families" of Cannabis strains. These Landrace strains (meaning where they originated from in the world physically) can be cross bred. These crossbreeds i.e. hybrids usually end up with a distinct name that sticks with the plant and it's seeds. This industry is a multi-billion dollar worldwide business. I didn't make up the colorful names for sh#ts and giggles, Dukey, they are called those names around the world.

Next assinine comment please......

October 6, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Duke_bets (anonymous) says...

nchron - I didn't say that you made them up and I realize that dope has many pseudonyms around the world. I stated that colorful names for drugs are sad. That is how they are promoted to youth. Most potheads and drug abusers use pseudonyms in reference to ease their own mind.

Crack is a colorful name known worldwide for methamphetamines.

October 6, 2009 at 1:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

Wow dukey you and that overinflated iq of yours should stop while you are ahead!

October 6, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

LMAO at jk and LMAO even more at Dukey-licious!!

Crack has nothing to do with amphetamines!! LOL It's cocaine in smokable form!! There is no point in trying to argue this point if this is the response I have gotten.

Wowsers people..... An Australian musical artist, John Butler, has a song that goes, "Go take a step outside, see what's shakin' in the real world...." It seems that some posters to this comment section need to do just that. Or at least educate yourselves on topics before posting.

October 6, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Duke_bets (anonymous) says...

Nchron - I now give you more credit to your support of pot smokers. You truly have no clue other than fancy fruit flavored names for pot. No further explanation needed.

October 6, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Duke....you miserable bafoon. Please, by all means, show me exactly where in the conversation the tables turned in aich's favor. I would love to see you reference the crushing points he made that so undoubtedly won this argument for him. Maybe we were reading 2 different comment sections.

And as far as the different, silly names for all of the different flavors, strengths and strands goes.....you're kidding right? So the guys that named Macintosh, Granny Smith's, Gala and the multitude of other farmers(hundreds by the way) that have named an apple variety are all just hopeless apple junkies that have nothing better to do with their time than think up silly names that appeal to kids? I know you're probably going to explode with joy after reading that I've equated apples to pot, so why don't you go ahead and volley the next debate bomb over the fence. I'm sure that of all the people that have supported the prohibition of marijuana, you're going to be the one to make the case and seal the deal for everyone. Maybe we've just misunderstood everyone before you that's proclaimed the evils of pot. Maybe the millions of cannabis users across America will finally see the truth about pot......thanks to the righteous light you're about to put on it. Please Duker, please show us the way. You're our only hope.

October 7, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I'd ask you to regale us with some of the linguistics in your arsenal, but how hard is it to look up some translation web sites?
And an IQ of 240? Really? C'mon man. Don't be one of those lying douches that just looks up IQ world records(a quick Google of Marylin von Savant or Guinness IQ records should suffice) and claims them for themselves. So why don't you go find some other chumps to gulp down your BS?

October 7, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Duke_bets (anonymous) says...

mmj - Lay off the smoke for one minute and you may be able to comprehend sarcasm. The IQ comments were for juli who evidently is the world's best poker player, has a doctorate in government / politics and also fluent in Spanish. Those are all excuses that ease a pothead's mind. I didn't start the IQ stuff, but was simply being a smart A**.

And, comparing apple's to dope is absurd. I'm not exploding with joy over this, but am shaking my head in confusion. You can use the crap all you want. You can make up millions of reasons and excuses to comfort yourself. That's not my point. I am highly against the promotion of drug use. That's what this is all about. You give it fancy names because it's illegal. You call it medicine and not dope. A lot of people get it prescribed for a chronic backache. And, I'll state this one more time..pot smokers carry medical marijuana cards. Nobody else. You probably won't understand that comment, so I'll explain it. Nobody tries marijuana for the first time because it was prescribed by a doctor. People that smoke marijuana look for an excuse to have it prescribed by a doctor legally.

October 7, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Duke- I think you have to write a disclaimer: Please Note the Dripping Sarcasm! As I have already posted this disclaimer a few times, I will not do it again here.....:)
And, yes some people do try it for the first time when told it may help what ever ailment they have by a doctor. Not always done on the up and up, but it does happen.

October 7, 2009 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Dookie, in most cases you are correct, the large majority of people who possess a mmj card used mj prior to the recommendation from their doc that it will help. In some, rarer cases, the patient has not ever used mj before and finds it's effectiveness after being recommended to use it. There is a grand explanation to why this phenomenon is in place. Our genius Federal government claims that mj has no medicinal value (even in the face of a mountain of facts that prove otherwise). Therefore, with our nation being overrun with brainless sheep, the majority of folks will stay away from mj in general. Lastly, Duker, I pat you on the back for coming up with your revelation!! Good job on seeing through everything to the real truth: People who smoke pot will probably seek an mmj card. GENIUS!!

October 8, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It brings a smile to my face that I don't even have to tell you how ridiculous you are. I don't even have to defend myself because the things you say are so absurd that the other logic-minded people that read it instantly feel obligated to tell you just how silly your comments are. Thanks to people like Nchronic and bandmama I don't have to post as much.
However, I believe that it bears mentioning the irony involved in a self-proclaimed "land of the free" being among a very few countries in the world that still upholds a law that prohibits a plant(bear in mind that the law also prohibits the cultivation of every strain of cannabis, including the industrial hemp strains that don't have psychoactive properties OR get you high).

The impossible challenge remains standing:
Justify the current prohibition that makes industrial hemp illegal. I dare you to try!

October 8, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The only two countries I can find which put no restrictions on pot are the Czech Republic (for adults) and Pakistan.

Even Jamaica still has laws against it.

It's no big revelation that the countries with the most drug abuse have the lowest productivity. At least the guys in Somalia have enough ambition to become pirates, but I guess that' probably because they don't have welfare, disability payments and medicaid for lunatics. We appear to be the world leaders in declaring drug addiction to be a sickness and allowing people to sit home on disability while continuing to use.

October 8, 2009 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

^^another well thought out response.... wtf? Where did that come from??

Am I still on planet Earth?

October 8, 2009 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

From today's Denver Post:

GREELEY, Colo.-A man who told officers he was a medical marijuana provider has been arrested for allegedly standing naked in a Colorado highway, pounding on passing cars and spitting at a state trooper.
Dustin Robbins, 27, of Westminster, faces 13 counts including indecent exposure, assault and driving under the influence of marijuana.

Robbins was arrested Sept. 25 on U.S. 34 east of Greeley. Witnesses told investigators he was cursing at cars and hitting some.

Two women in their 70s and 80s told deputies a naked man jumped on the hood of their car, broke windows, walked across the roof and jumped off the back. Damage was estimated at $1,200.

Authorities said Robbins spat on the state trooper who arrested him.

Deputies said he told them he was a medical marijuana provider, and they found certificates for medical marijuana but no state provider's license.

State officials said records of licensed providers aren't public.

Robbins is jailed under $50,000 bail. No phone listing could be found for him and it wasn't known if he had a lawyer

October 8, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

^^HOLY CRAP, that's my dad!!! kidding!!

Honestly, that's pretty disturbing. This guy obviously went off the deep end with more than just mmj. I have yet to see mj cause a person to behave like this. But, I'm sure everyone blames the weed!! I mean, this had to be a completely sane individual until he got ahold of the life-destroying, insanity-causing, brain-melting weeeeeed!!!..............riiiiight........uh huh.... ya

October 8, 2009 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Duke_bets (anonymous) says...

nchron - Your 1.38 response must be towards the 11.48 response by mmj.

mmj - Aich blew you up again. You have a smile on your face because your stoned. Do you really believe the USA is one of very few countries to still ban weed? You have to be smarter than that. Talk about absurd responses. And, now you're on to industrial hemp. Are you making rope with the dope or getting high for no particular reason?

Now on to another great point by Aich...........What percentage of marijauna card holders also receive government benefits? Duke bets its off the charts. So, don't tell me the government doesn't support the potheads.

October 8, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

Oh come on, agree to disagree and move on. This is an arguement that no one is going to "win".
Duke-gotta ask though, what is the percentage of people on government assistance who DONT smoke, drink, or indulge? I am asking because you and Aich seem to be saying that if you are a "loser" than you automatically are a stoner or a drunk or an abuser of some substance.
I really cant believe that two people who are obviously well read cant accept that there are losers/abusers as well as highly successful/respected people in all walks of life. What society usually hears however, is the bad.
Without the experimental use of so many substances, natural as well as man made, we would never fully benefit from those
substances. MJ happens to have a very bad rep because as Aich has repeatedly pointed out, it has been "abused". It does not make the plant bad, it makes the person who made bad choices that much more of an idiot.
The industrial uses of hemp are endless, who knows what other uses may be found? (Ok, my favorite are the hemp hearts Aich, have you done any follow up on that? they really are tasty and THC FREE....no buzz involved.)
California (according to the Pilot...today) is looking to legalize pot, think of the number of REAL (as in violent, or deviant) criminals may be kept behind bars, think of the tax revenue for a state that as I recall, is broke.
Sometimes we have to think outside of our own comfort levels. Many points of interest have been posted here. Wouldn't it be nice if instead of tossing insults out, really make a point of trying to see both sides.

October 8, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nurmidst (anonymous) says...

Didn't anyone tell this cop it is very very very very dangerous to take other peoples medication! Tampering with evidence theft? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IoCGp...

October 8, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Ok boys & girls, let's review. Medical weed is a non-issue, at least in this state and 12 others(15 more have the issue on the table). The medicinal provision(s) for marijuana should be a nation-wide right given to every citizen that needs it. There still exists federal law(s) that dictate the illegality of all marijuana, in all forms(except of coarse for the government, which at one point starting growing marijuana for testing purposes and then, federally, assigned a prescription to a VERY limited number of ill citizens, some of whom still get their tin can of 300 joints from Uncle Sam, once a month............for free). On top of the hypocrisy involved in banning a substance only to turn right around and grow/give it away, the government of these United States sees fit to arrest/prosecute/fine/imprison/stain the lives of the people that are unlucky enough to get caught associating with this alleged "evil." Our government spends billions of our dollars to set up a system that bases profit on pot convictions and then proceeds to move over one desk, wearing a very different hat this time, to dole out the very substance that they're making so much money off of by prohibiting it to the general public. Are you still following me? Kind of a bumpy road, I know.
The main point I was shooting for earlier was to show how absurd it is to ban a plant; not the one that gets you all goof-i-fied, but a sub-strain that does NOT get you high. I'll repeat that. They ban ALL strains of cannabis, even the ones that have ZERO psychoactive properties.
So please, WTF!? Please, show me how this makes sense. Show me how this is not corrupt. Please, tell me why I should support that corrupt of a system. Provide some logical defense for our government's hypocrisy.
Take a minute, if you'd like, and shoot over to Wikipedia.com to look at the information that they've compiled on hemp. There's a very interesting section called "Countries that produce hemp." I would highly recommend reading this in reference to my earlier comment about America having retarded/ignorant cannabis laws and how we are screwing ourselves by prohibiting the cultivation of a plant that is about as dangerous as bubble gum.

October 9, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

Welcome to the USA....

October 9, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

MMJ- well said.

October 9, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Thank you. It is my sincerest desire to, at the very least, be a severe pain in the a$$ to those that blindly accept and follow the "ways of old" without giving any thought as to why. I believe one of our biggest problems as Americans is our ability to utterly ignore and shut-out alternative views that challenge our current status quo. The leaders of this country have long ignored the responsibilities that come with making the decisions that affect its citizenry. It's time for us, as a collective whole, to stand up to the power/money-hungry and corrupt bastards that have given all of the rest of us such a great reputation throughout the globe. It doesn't mean that it's right to judge a people by their leadership, but it happens.

October 9, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blinger (anonymous) says...

CRACK

October 9, 2009 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Thank Reagan for that one.

October 9, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

The human race is full of weak-minded people who cannot be trusted to self-govern when faced with an easy way out through welfare benefits, disability income or addictive substances.

Unfortunately, hemp is associated with negative social consequences that spill over into putting a burden on taxpayers.

We don't have any positive role models that show legalization of pot makes people healthy and productive. So, where are they? Where are the success stories in the states where mmj is decriminalized?

I've got no problem with using pot where it provides a medical benefit. It's no different than any other drug in that respect.

The problem is political, but then so are many others. Global warming is political. Gay marriage is political. People who are not convinced of the benefits or are against anything on the basis of their personal beliefs are going to be very difficult to convince.

Personally, I'd like to see all able-bodied men serve four years in the armed forces and then be held in a reserve status until the age of 40. If we had more common citizens involved in military leadership and fewer academy-bred careerists, getting automatic promotions while others who are more capable are forced out based on longevity alone, this country would be much stronger and smarter when it comes to national security. Our security should not depend on having a qualified leader in the right place at the right time to make the best decisions, but that's how it works.

So, legalizing marijuana is just another polictical issue with it's constituency like all the others, from gay marriage to longer school years, and if the general population doesn't support it, nothing will change.

The idea of legalizing pot is no different from the guy who walked from Texas to Washington dragging a big cross. He got a lot of attention, but what did he change along the way? Not very much in the national sense.

The problem with legalization of hemp is the image of stoners in the minds of the general population. You've got to change that image to make progress with legalization, and unfortunately, lauding the merits of various strains of pot in a forum like this doesn't convince people that mmj patients are responsible users.

Without majority popular support, only a fundamental constitutional issue that gains the support of the Supreme Court can legalize hemp. So, good luck with that.

October 11, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

You want to talk about tax-payer burden? Really? Ok, let's talk about tax-payer burden(s). Do have the slightest clue of how many billions of tax-payer dollars are spent on arresting/sending to trial/ imprisoning people whose only crime is possessing a plant? Since you don't seem to be in possession of this fact, here it is; roughly $42 Billion, annually. I would love to hear you try to justify/validate the $42 billion dollars spent on finding and eradicating cannabis. Make the case that there is NOT a better use for this money in today's society, I dare you.
Secondly, what the hell is with expecting some nationally heroic figure to emerge from the whole marijuana debate, that will win over the hearts and minds of most Americans? Did alcohol have such a person? What about tobacco? Coffee? So, you're saying that in order for marijuana to become a widely accepted part of American culture it's going to need some sort of Joe Camel or coffee-laden donkey with a Colombian guy on top, to be it's image? Or are you just looking for success stories? I could probably look up a couple of dispensaries and cannabis clubs that could vouch for some of the success(es) they've encountered since medical laws were enacted. What about the thousands of success stories from those that can now, legally, enjoy/buy/grow/possess the medicine that allows them to lead rich, fulfilling lives?
But I don't think you're looking for any of that. You're just looking for something to bitch about, obviously.
And last, but certainly not least, in regards to your views about mandatory military service and reserve status, WOW! That explains a lot. You know, you'd probably be much more satisfied living and fighting in Israel. I'm sure you could find plenty of new friends over there and your extreme views might just be a little more at home over there.

Oh, and the cross-bearer on a cross-country trip.....really? You're gonna try and compare the movement to legalize cannabis with some nut-job that got bored and decided to take up his own cross? WTF man?! Why not compare coffee addicts to meth-heads or heroin users?

October 11, 2009 at 3:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh yeah! And apparently, being knowledgeable about the ins and outs of marijuana makes my debate for ending the prohibition of marijuana completely null and void? You have GOT to be kidding me! So you're saying that some one with less knowledge on the subject would be better qualified and more successful at arguing the same points? What the hell kind of sense does that make?
As is the case in most arguments, the winner is usually not the person with the least knowledge of the topic at hand. There is very little that can be done about the few bad apples that give the rest of "us" a bad name. However, instead of focusing on the people that obviously have no clue about what's going on in a debate, you could recognize that every issue, even some that you feel heavily about, has some idiots that embarrass one side and give ammunition to the other side. It's pretty easy to pick off the ignorant in a debate, but why not rise to the challenge of arguing the real points and facts? Why not go toe to toe with someone that actually knows what they're talking about, while letting the stubbornly ignorant be as they may?

October 11, 2009 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Got kinda quiet in here....

October 15, 2009 at 11:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

LOL!
Perhaps a bit of reflection going on?

October 15, 2009 at 1:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

That's all that any of us can hope for.

October 15, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

"The idea of legalizing pot is no different from the guy who walked from Texas to Washington dragging a big cross. He got a lot of attention, but what did he change along the way? Not very much in the national sense."

He did get tossed in jail for being a deadbeat. Remember...

Not being from the Steamboat area, but making a contribution to the discussion regarding James Strickland, I feel it necessary to keep you informed of the developments that have transpired since my dropping off James yesterday morning. Below is the email that I wrote to the men's group a couple of hours ago that had breakfast with James yesterday. This was immediately after a call I recieved from James. It is only fair that I share this with the citizens of Steamboat Springs:.

I just received a call from James Strickland. He told me that he didn't make it out of Bountiful yesterday as they were having their (Days of '47 Parade) there. The road (Hwy 89) was too congested w/ parade participants. He tried to go onto the interstate but was stopped by a highway patrol and was told he couldn't walk on the interstate. He said that yesterday, after I dropped him off in Bountiful, was one of the most difficult days he's had on his journey. He told me he was laughed at, ridiculed, made fun of, etc. He also confessed to me that he wasn't completely forthright with us yesterday. He neglected to tell us that he was on a parole violation in Washington for burglary. He said that he violated his parole by leaving Washington to see his family (mother) in Texas, like he told us, and that in addition to "carrying the cross", upon his return to Aberdeen, he will surrender himself to authorities for his parole violation.

I'm telling you this because his story is to be printed in tomorrow's Park Record with the addition of his parole violation. In case you've told some about our guest yesterday, I didn't want this fact to come as a surprise. James wanted me to let you all know how welcoming we made him feel at breakfast and that that has been one of his bright spots during his journey. As uplifting as breakfast was for him yesterday, his experiences in Bountiful made him feel ashamed. He acknowledged that he should have told us the whole truth and apologized for not doing so. He knows that he has to live up to what he's done and is trying his best to make it right. He apologized for not being completely honest with us.

from;
http://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/20...

October 16, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

mtroach-thank you for the update. I do seem to recall that his intentions were in question during his visit as well as why the mother of his children felt the need to put so many miles between them. If knowing the 'lord" in his mind includes stealing and taking advantage of the kind people along his path, seems self serving to me. That said, I have to agree with mmj, has nothing to do with the basis to this debate

October 16, 2009 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Granted, my remarks regarding the fellow with the cross might have been a bit rough. However, the thought that someone would compare a movement to RE-legalize cannabis with some guy, in violation of his parole, that's walking a cross half-way across the country, "to see his family," is nothing short of ridiculous and somewhat aggravating. Nothing personal towards the cross guy, hope he enjoys the jail time/parole extension that transpires when he ends up wherever it is that he's going.

The long and short of it is that he has very little to do with this conversation/debate. To bring him up in illustration of the futility of the argument for RE-legalizing cannabis is a mighty big stretch, at best. Why does this argument need to be compared to anything other than the recorded history of cannabis and the laws involved therein? All that someone would have to do is spend five minutes with google to find all of the information they would need to formulate even a half-brained argument against RE-legalizing cannabis. If you have to reach out as far as the cross guy to try to make a "valid" point in this debate, then maybe you need to re-evaluate the hope you hold out for producing anything of value for your side of the argument.

October 16, 2009 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Au contraire, Maman. This so-called "debate" is doing nothing more for legalization of marijuana than the dude with the cross was doing to save souls.

There are two ways to change a law. The first requires an expensive legal team and a constitutional challenge to a prohibitive law, showing that the prohibition is unconstitutional. You'd have to show something to the effect that depriving people of marijuana deprives them of a civil right guaranteed by the Constitution.

The second way is to get enough people having similar political convictions into the U S Congress to vote to repeal/modify the controlled substances act. I figure if you start now, you might have the support in, oh, twenty years.

mmj, you are hammering at people to try to change their minds. It's not going to work. In order to change someone's mind, you have to understand the way they think and find arguments that fit into their set of values.

The civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s succeeded because John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert, and Martin Luther King were politically powerful men. Oh, and, it didn't hurt that Robert was the attorney general, and the FBI worked for him, and the federal law enforcement agencies were mobilized to crush violent resistance to civil rights activities.

Oh, and what about AIDS? It took a long time to get public support for AIDS treatment and drugs, etc. And why was that? Duh . . .

So, you see, legalization of marijuana is much closer to the AIDS problem than the civil rights problem. The general public just doesn't care about it enough to support it. It's for "those people," and the silent majority doesn't care if you can't get it legally.

The civil rights movement had Martin Luther King. Marijuana has . . . Bob Marley? One had a dream; the other had hallucinations. Big dif.

October 17, 2009 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Actually Aich, you are very wrong. Drug laws and attitudes are already changing with the exception of your generation

October 18, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

And didn't I say, "twenty years?"

Don't be sad. It will fly by.

By the way, don't give me that "attitudes" and "your generation" stuff. My generation was the one taking LSD, dodging the draft, going to Woodstock, smoking grass (as we called it), gnawing on magic mushrooms and trading cocaine for TV network time slots for such winning concepts as "Supertrain," a nuclear powered train of the future. There was a time in the 80s when the only way you got a show on TV was to supply cocaine to the network execs.

A very few people got rich this way. An overwhelming majority ended up in trouble with money, relationships, the law and dead-end careers or underemployment.

When the generation you consider to be more accepting of drugs lives through the aftermath, they won't be voting to legalize marijuana either. I can point to too many people who lost ten years of their lives and, no doubt, 1/4 to 1/2 million in lifetime earnings before they figured out what was going on. A lot of them are the ones who don't have a down payment on a house in Steamboat Springs. Don't you get it?

Drugs dull your mind. Anything more than a beer after work is going to take its toll, and for some, even that's too much.

October 18, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

NchronicPain (anonymous) says...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/a...

Enough said.

October 19, 2009 at 7:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Boy Aich, the new stance by the justice dept. looks suspiciously like a change in attitude by our top law enforcement officials.

Couple that with the attitudes changing in the population at large and that 20 year wait time seems largely over. Maybe you are on the wrong side of this debate.

For the record, Aich is correct about the effects of drug use. He/she is just stuck fighting the wrong problem in the wrong way. It is time to legalize these substances and to change the rules in the fight against drug abuse. It is not the goal that is wrong, it is the failed policies that lead to the "war on drugs". It is time to end that war and begin new programs of treatment and education.

October 19, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Chronie,

The link is nothing different from what we already know. MEDICAL use of pot is not being prosecuted by the feds in states where it is licensed.

trump,

I have not made a stand against licensed medical use of marijuana since Obama's Executive Order effectively decriminalized it in states that issue licenses.

My point was that since providers and users have to be licensed and are linked to each other, there's no need for a commercial storefront promoting the use of pot in a tourist town that appeals to families with kids. An address on the front door should be enough to enable patients to find the dispensary without alienating people who object to pot use by the non-licensed public.

I visit an allergist's office in another town to receive injections. I know exactly where it is. I know what time to be there and which days injections are given. I don't need a big neon hypodermic needle and jars filled with allergy pills on display in the front window to know where to go. The general public can't just walk in there and say, "hey, give me a shot" without the doctor's evaluation and a prescription order. Pot dispensaries are no different in principle.

We can't buy sudafed anymore without showing an ID and quantities are limited, and this is because it's used to make crystal meth. So where's this trend toward fewer prohibitions on drugs when you can't buy a cold pill without an ID?

Treatment and education are great ideas. They also need to come with spankings and time-outs to be effective.

Tell me how educating a drug trafficker is going to turn him into an honest citizen. If they can't make money selling illegal drugs, they'll find another way to make a living illegally. Personally, I'd rather have the Mexicans selling pot to mmj's friends than carjacking me, holding me up at the ATM or breaking into my house. The Italian Mafia didn't give up crime when prohibition was repealed. They just moved on to other criminal activities, including some with legitimate front offices (like supplying sub-standard concrete for construction projects -- cutting the mix a sack or two short on portland cement and pocketing the difference. It adds up.)

Education worked for AIDS because it carries a death sentence. Education didn't stop people from engaging in risky behavior; it mostly showed them how to do the same things more safely. If the risk of death is not enough to stop people from doing it in the hiney with strangers, how is education going to stop people from smoking pot. I supposed they could put condoms on the pipes to prevent inhalation of smoke . . .

October 19, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"An address...bla-bla...object to pot use by the non-licensed public." Aich, what in the world does a big cannabis leaf, on the front of a dispensary that dispenses legal cannabis, to legal card-holders only, have to do with offending people that don't like recreational use? I gotta tell ya aich, as a patient myself, I couldn't give less of a hoot what the general public thinks of me, or the non-licensed smokers. The non-licensed smokers aren't the issue. Neither is people's opinions of them. Why should I have to care about someone's opinions of my medication preference? I object to a whole armada of pharmaceuticals but I don't go around telling people not to take Oxycontin(which, by the way, is more abused, more fatal, more addictive and more readily available to just about anybody).
"I visit an allergist's office in another town to receive injections...bla-bla-bla(see above)....doctor's evaluation and a prescription order. Pot dispensaries are no different in principle." I recently returned from a weekend in Denver. As I now do every time I go to Denver, I visited a dispensary to get a refill on my prescription. The specific one that I went to this time was a little different from some of the previous ones I have visited. It was in a building with multiple businesses in it and it had covered parking. They took and whited out all of the windows professionally and the only thing that told you that you were in the right place was a small two-digit unit number above the door. No name, no pictures, no neon signs. Took me about 2 minutes to find.
There seems to be an underlying attitude in your comments that you're smarter, more successful and just generally better than those that choose to medicate this way. First of all, get over yourself. You're no better than anyone else on this planet, just like the rest of us aren't. Secondly, and I know I've said this before but it seems to bear repeating, you have admittedly very little personal interaction with people at the heart of this issue. All of your bias, fear and derogatory remarks are based solely on third-hand information, encounters with strangers at the lumber yard and lies that have been presented as facts in some piece of government sponsored propaganda.
And last, but certainly not least, "Tell me how educating a drug trafficker is going to turn him into an honest citizen. If they can't make money selling illegal drugs, they'll find another way to make a living illegally. Personally, I'd rather have the Mexicans selling pot to mmj's friends than carjacking me, holding me up at the ATM or breaking into my house. "
Amazing, simply amazing. Seriously, WTF man?! You've got some serious issues buddy and you remind everyone here of that on a regular basis. Seek help man, honestly.

October 19, 2009 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

You should care what other people think because it reflects on the town and the town lives on tourist dollars.

The place you visited sounds great. Just right. If they follow that model in Steamboat, nobody should complain.

The original article was about the City limiting freedom of speech in identifying pot dispensaries. I guess you've forgotten that . . .

October 19, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

hmmmm......federal change in arrest policies for MM users????
anyone else happen to see this headline BLARING?

October 19, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So aich, after saying, "Personally, I'd rather have the Mexicans selling pot to mmj's friends than carjacking me, holding me up at the ATM or breaking into my house," I'm the one who's forgotten what the debate is about? Aich, you haven't lost it because you've never had it. You get an "A" for effort but your debate in this comment board is laughable, at best.
And as far as not caring about what people think, it's my right as a free American, especially after having served in the armed forces that fight to keep it free, to act however the hell I want, with-in the bounds of the law and not have to give a damn about what someone's opinion might be. This is especially true in this case. I'd bleed every last drop to make sure that you still have the right to spew your poisoned "logic" in whatever forum you may choose but that, in no way, means that I have to agree with you or expect you to conform to what my opinions and ideals are. That's the beauty of this country we call America. You can have your opinion with-out having the obligation of being right. I'm glad you're enjoying this luxury aich.
All that I can hope for is that anyone else reading all of these, sometime lengthy, articles and comments can see the progression of the general attitude towards pot in America. Having a new federal law that makes it illegal for the feds to pursue those that are abiding by the laws that their respective state has enacted is some that a lot of people have been waiting on for a long time. Living in a country that realizes the importance of respecting the ideals and perspectives that are held by the smaller, more local communities within it is something that we should all be proud of and something that we should all feel is worth fighting for.

October 19, 2009 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Well, mmj, I served in the armed forces also, was injured on active duty and lost seven friends (people I had known personally or shared a cockpit with) in ten years. Don't tell me about sacrifice. I worked very hard to earn my way into a very dangerous job while civilians were still spitting on men in uniform following the Vietnam era.

There is not a "new federal law." It's a policy. The law remains in place.

You should look up the story in the news this morning about the Los Angeles prosecutor who has embarked on a new campaign to shut down "for profit" marijuana dispensaries that are violating state law. LA's dispensary population grew from only 4 to 800, and the ones that are violating California's state medicial marijuana laws or breaking another law using the marijuana dispensary as a cover are being shut down by SWAT teams and the operators are being arrested and prosecuted.

It seems clear that medical marijuana is being used as a "cover" by a lot of people in the general population. How come pot users can't seem to follow the law? The people who run licensed pharmacies seem to be able to pull it off, although there are admittedly bad apples in every profession.

Anyway, this is not a debate. The debate that counts must occur in the U S Congress and in the State legislatures, and if medical marijuana providers and users don't follow the laws which provide for compassionate use by those with a valid need, it will never be legalized on a national basis. California took a bold step by allowing medical marijuana, and as most of us expected, it has been abused. If the licensed users and providers don't uphold the requirements of the law, I expect to see the laws repealed. The MMJ experiment can fail just like Prohibition failed, and if it does, it will be because people abused the medical privileges.

I think you and your cronies are failing to realize that pot is a psychologically addictive substance which causes behavioral changes and impairs intellectual function. I don't expect to change your mind, because pot has already done that. I also don't expect you to change anybody else's mind because you clearly don't understand how to make a case for compassionate medical use.

If medical users were responsible and law-abiding, then after a while, "over the counter" pot might become available to the general public. In fact, abuse of medical pot seems to be closer to the norm, and that behavior will defeat any general legalization of the stuff.

The idea that a "debate" can change anything falls into the category of "magical thinking," and if you want to engage in that behavior, then prayer has a better chance of making it happen.

October 20, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich, you idiot, coffee is more addictive than cannabis. So is tobacco.
Congratulations on your military service, but I still have the right to not give a damn. We both fought for that right and I'm gonna use it. This life is too short to spend it worrying about what people might think. You'll spend your whole life walking on eggshells and missing out on a lot that life has to offer and a lot that people have to offer. Your problem is you give-in to the hype. You probably watch way too much Fox "news" and spend your nights cuddling up to life-size stuffed animal versions of Glenn Beck, Hannity&Colmes and Bill O'Reilly. Hell, you might even have a cute little Rush Limbaugh portrait tattooed on one of your butt cheeks. You just might be one of the baffoons that believes that we're in the Middle East for the sole purpose of spreading freedom and democracy to people that really want it.
The long and short of it is, you could be doing all of those things and more, but that's your right. You can be as ridiculous and absurd as your imagination will let you be but so long as nobody gets hurt and no laws get broke, it's ok.

So, as an American, feel free to continue your rants about how this plant is going to be the down-fall of this nation should it finally RE-legalize cannabis. Go ahead and spit in the face of thousands of years of world history and the countless cultures that embraced the one plant on this earth that has over 25,000 different uses. It's your constitutionally protected right to be that ignorant. So, enjoy.

October 20, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Okay, I'm going to lay my cards on the table.

I have nothing to gain or lose by the legalization of medical marijuana. I think that a substance that provides relief to people who are suffering should be available to them. It should be legal and readily available.

There is clear, current medical and scientific proof that marijuana is an addictive substance for "some" people. The behavioral symptoms of substance abuse and addiction outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for classification of psychological illnesses clearly apply to "some" marijuana users. It's the same for alcohol and other substances. I suppose it's also true for some caffeine users, but I haven't met one of those people yet.

I am not a right-wing conservative. I haven't been in a church but twice in the past 10-15 years, and both times it was for someone else's wedding. I didn't vote for Bush or McCain . . . I voted against their opponents. I support health-care reform, a woman's right to have an abortion, and meaningful public safety laws. At the same time, I think an elective abortion for contraception is murder, but it's a murder on the mother's account, and she can answer for it to God if he exists and/or cares about such trivia. I don't want any religious zealot telling me how to live, but I support the right of our society to protect itself from people who harm others, steal from them, or appropriate a special privilege for themselves at the expense of others.

I believe that people who are substance abusers are a drag on all of us, because they cannot and do not pull their weight. Every dollar they do not earn is $0.05 in taxes lost by the State of Colorado, and $0.15 (plus a fraction) not paid into the Social Security System which was set up to provide for people who are physically and mentally handicapped, and the aged. I feel the same way about tax evaders, and there are plenty of them around here . . . we can talk about them on another thread if you'd like. I feel the same way about white-collar criminals who victimize working people, and that includes the mortgage brokers and bankers who made money from sub-prime mortgages knowing that most of the people getting those loans would lose their homes.

I believe that people with intelligence and good health have a responsibility to contribute to the welfare of the less fortunate, but not to support people who are voluntarily under-employed or living outside the law.

I have a second home in an area where the highschool dropout rate averages 50% inside the city limits. I have witnessed kids selling drugs to each other at highschool football games. One of these transactions was conducted within 5 feet of a police officer, directly behind his back. These kids have no chance for a decent life, and most of them grow up expecting to go to jail or live on public assistance. Many of them live on the proceeds of crime, and certainly by tax evasion.

(cont.)

October 21, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

So why do I care? It doesn't affect me at all. I just happen to think that people are better than that, and are here for a higher purpose. I hate to see wasted lives. I hate to see a community collapsing on itself for lack of adult supervision. If those kids are the only ones left in town because everybody else moves away to escape the crime and poverty, what becomes of them?

The message I get from you is that you are here to get high on pot, and that you don't give a $#!+ about anybody else. I've got to believe that it's your drug abuse that colors your perceptions and desires, because otherwise, it would mean you're someone who doesn't care about the welfare of anyone else.

If you don't care how drug abuse affects other people who suffer ill effects from it, why should any of us care about your self-proclaimed "need" for massive doses of medical marijuana or believe that there's not something else that would do the job just as well, but doesn't make you feel high?

If you want me to support legal use by responsible adults, then I need to see responsible adult use and that includes doing whatever is necessary (even being a snitch) to keep the stuff out of the hands of kids. And "the stuff" includes all intoxicating and mind-altering substances.

If you get up every day, go to work, pay your bills and support your family (including medical insurance) then I'll vote to legalize marijuana for you.

Let's see a "million man medical marijuana march on Washington" that also includes a charter promoting enforcement of laws designed to keep intoxicating substances out of the hands of minors and people who cannot be productive citizens while using drugs and alcohol.

Felons can't buy guns and can't vote. Why should they be able to buy booze or pot? Get the idea?

So, if you want my support, don't tell me that cannabis is not bad. Show me that people can use it in a way that supports civic responsibility in our communities, and I'll vote for it.

October 21, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich, you'll have to bear with me. That's a lot of ammo to sort through there, but I give you my word I will fire back. I'm gonna take those last two comments point at a time so I can make sure you get it all.

October 21, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"I have nothing to gain or lose by the legalization of medical marijuana. I think that a substance that provides relief to people who are suffering should be available to them. It should be legal and readily available."
Medicinal cannabis is not the issue. Not for 14 states(with 14 more still deciding) at least. The broader issue is the illegality of all strains of cannabis on a federal level. We are robbing ourselves of billions of dollars. Maybe you would call the creation of new jobs, industry and local economic boost silly, but there are quite a few of us out there that would love to "gain" these things for ourselves and our respective communities. This could be made very possible by eradicating the current drug laws that forbid the cultivation of a harmless plant. Allow me to, once again, elaborate on this. The cannabis plant strain that is grown for the purposes of making fibers, textiles and an armada of other products does, in no way, shape or form have anything to offer to anybody looking for medicinal qualities, or a "high." In fact, smoking this particular variety of cannabis has zero benefit and will most likely harm you.
Making all strands of marijuana illegal is akin to making pharmaceuticals illegal in light of their illegal street versions. It just doesn't make any sense. We need to approach things from a stance of reason. There is great despair to be had from blindly, unquestioningly following the decrees of those in positions of power. To allow this current prohibition of cannabis to continue would be no better than spitting in the faces of those that are fed the f*(#% up with the seemingly endless waste and misuse of tax-payer dollars. And there seems to be a lot of us that feel that way.

October 21, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

I will respond like I always have. The problems of drug abuse and the black market supply chain are separate and distinct. It is my opinion (supported by several historical examples) that prohibition is the primary cause of the guns, gangs and violence that are destroying the neighborhoods of which you speak. Without the black market supply of cash, this problems would dwindle to manageable levels.

The problem of drug abuse is primarily a personal one and should be dealt with more openly than the current legal system allows. Throwing addicts and troubled individuals in jail does not help them with their addictions and exposes them to more of the same. Education and treatment are far more effective.

October 21, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich- I'll go ahead and pass on what would have been my next rebuttal to your comments. It seems as though trump has made the point about addiction for me.
So instead I'll tackle,
"I am not a right-wing conservative. I haven't been in a church but twice in the past 10-15 years, and both times it was for someone else's wedding. I didn't vote for Bush or McCain : I voted against their opponents. I support health-care reform, a woman's right to have an abortion, and meaningful public safety laws. At the same time, I think an elective abortion for contraception is murder, but it's a murder on the mother's account, and she can answer for it to God if he exists and/or cares about such trivia. I don't want any religious zealot telling me how to live, but I support the right of our society to protect itself from people who harm others, steal from them, or appropriate a special privilege for themselves at the expense of others."
First of all, no one here cares what your views are on abortion or political affiliation. That's another debate for another time and place. In regards to the latter part of the above quote, I surely hope that you're not implicating cannabis users as the ones that are harming people, stealing or appropriating special privilege. If this is the case, I would love to see the volumes of case files you must have on all of the violent cannabis users out there. My money says these things don't exist, largely in part to the fact that I've never seen of heard of someone going into a fit of rage right after smoking(unless, of coarse, you count "Reefer Madness" as evidence). As far as stealing goes, you must be referencing your comments about taxes and whatnot. This can all not only be fixed, but improved ten-fold if this country would wake up and start utilizing industrial hemp to offset some of the disastrous effects that have manifested out of our current employment, financial and housing fustercluckery. Let's use our brains and our knowledge of horticulture to pull ourselves out of the wonderful pit that our most recent former president put us in.
And special privilege at the expense of others? Really? Please explain, if this is in fact directed at cannabis users.

October 21, 2009 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Ok next....."I believe that people with intelligence and good health have a responsibility to contribute to the welfare of the less fortunate, but not to support people who are voluntarily under-employed or living outside the law."

The only reason these people are living outside of the law is because there exists a law absurd enough to prohibit a plant.
And voluntarily under-employed? Are you making another attempt at, yet another, broad-sweeping, generalized stereotype about the inherent laziness of "stoners"? Or are you just one of the nutty Americans that wants to work their ass off, all of the time, for the rest of their life and wants everyone else to be just as miserable as they are?

October 21, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"I have a second home in an area where the highschool dropout rate averages 50% inside the city limits. I have witnessed kids selling drugs to each other at highschool football games. One of these transactions was conducted within 5 feet of a police officer, directly behind his back. These kids have no chance for a decent life, and most of them grow up expecting to go to jail or live on public assistance. Many of them live on the proceeds of crime, and certainly by tax evasion."

First of all, upon witnessing this alleged drug deal, did you go and speak to the police officer about the crime? Or were you just another "not-give-a-damn" American? Did you walk out your big talk?
Secondly, you're talking about something that is a parental responsibility. Maybe the drop-outs aren't fortunate enough to have parents that give a damn. Quit trying to take all of the world's problems and hold cannabis responsible for them. Train parents to raise kids better, train cops to be better cops, train teachers and coaches to be more attentive to the kids in their hallways but don't you dare tell me that keeping cannabis illegal and wasting more money on a futile drug war is going to fix any of the problems in society today. The only thing this current cannabis prohibition is successful at is creating the black market for it and robbing the people of this nation of their hard-earned tax dollars that could, otherwise, be used productively.

October 21, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"The message I get from you is that you are here to get high on pot, and that you don't give a $#!+ about anybody else. I've got to believe that it's your drug abuse that colors your perceptions and desires, because otherwise, it would mean you're someone who doesn't care about the welfare of anyone else.
If you don't care how drug abuse affects other people who suffer ill effects from it, why should any of us care about your self-proclaimed "need" for massive doses of medical marijuana or believe that there's not something else that would do the job just as well, but doesn't make you feel high?"

You have, once again, managed to take my line of words and tie it into a monkey's fist. The truth is that, yes, drug abuse is horrible. I've never denied that or tried to imply anything to the contrary. In fact, drug abuse is one of the countless issues that could be better addressed by our nation if it would stop wasting money on pursuing the eradication of cannabis. You're a fool if you think that cannabis is the most abused or even the most dangerous of all the drugs out there. My point is, we're only wasting time and money on something that was, and still is, never going to be "winnable" anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that there are plenty of bigger fish this country needs to be busy frying instead of the current cannabis carp that's stuck to the pan.

October 21, 2009 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

You know, if Aich's argument is that pot dulls the mind ect ect ect...
mmj- I wonder, did you, like before you inhaled, have an IQ of like, you know 384 or something....dude?
(rebuttals very well written, and informative, and SUPER points scored with the "not give a damn American" comment. Your stance on parenting also give food for thought as to the problems with todays youth. Good job!)

October 21, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"If you want me to support legal use by responsible adults, then I need to see responsible adult use and that includes doing whatever is necessary (even being a snitch) to keep the stuff out of the hands of kids. And "the stuff" includes all intoxicating and mind-altering substances."

If you think you're going to find someone out there that thinks these things should be in the hands of children, I'd love to take a look at your catch. The idea that anyone here is promoting usage by children under the age of 18 is absurd and insulting. There is no arguing that the people who provide harmful things to kids should be locked away for very long periods of time......duh. This goes back to my parenting and cop argument. These people are in these positions because they're supposed to be responsible for the protection of the priceless assets we know as children. If they should prove to be inept at performing this responsibility, then they should be removed from under this burden. There is no room in our society for people that hurt kids.
Historically speaking, the argument that making cannabis legal will ultimately destroy a society and it's youth is baseless and untrue. Societies that have less restriction and more understanding, regarding cannabis, subsequently have less problems with abuse due to the fact that the black market is neutralized by regulation and monitoring. The people in these societies are educated on both the dangers and the benefits of cannabis and they are all the better for it.

October 21, 2009 at 3:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And please allow me to digress for a moment to something I should have covered on the 3:37 post.
"The message I get from you is that you are here to get high on pot, and that you don't give a $#!+ about anybody else. I've got to believe that it's your drug abuse that colors your perceptions and desires, because otherwise, it would mean you're someone who doesn't care about the welfare of anyone else."

Quick question for you aich. What, in the hell, could you possibly know about my drug abuse? Do you somehow know my name? Are you some long lost friend from my past that's come to save me from the fires of a hemp hell?
If you had said nothing else in this debate, this quote alone would be plenty of evidence to support the idea that you're ignorant and desperately reaching out for something that might stomp the fight out of me or the validity out of my argument. Well, aich, you've picked the wrong "stoner" to try your verbal jousting aptitude against. Feel free to childishly sling mud all over the place and make a mess of yourself for as long as you want. Just don't expect it to get you anywhere in talking about responsible adults.

October 21, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

This one is a fun one:
"If you don't care how drug abuse affects other people who suffer ill effects from it, why should any of us care about your self-proclaimed "need" for massive doses of medical marijuana or believe that there's not something else that would do the job just as well, but doesn't make you feel high?"

It's not so much a lack of care for those that abuse harmful drugs, but more for the opinions of those that would use abusers as a point for their argument against RE-legalizing cannabis. Whether it's legal or not, the people that abuse it will find a way to get. Simply making a law directed at abusers will not curb the issue either.
Secondly, none of you, not a soul on this earth, should care about my need for medicinal cannabis. Truth be told, it's none of your f*ing business. My choice of medication vs. another person's choice of medication is completely irrelevant.
Even if there were another substance, man-made or natural, on this planet that could provide the same relief that cannabis does, which there is not, what the hell right would you, or anybody, have to tell me to take it, as opposed to cannabis? Are we creeping into a socialized medicine debate?
I would also be curious to see what information you can offer about the vast sums of evil that are allegedly produced by abusing cannabis. The worst thing that happens to me when I over-medicate, if such a thing is even possible with cannabis, is a, sometimes severe, dryness of the mouth and moderate rumbling of the stomach. Both of these "side effects" are readily curable and easy to overcome, unless you find yourself in the middle of a desert without any food or water. However, should you find yourself in this situation, you have probably ingested something a bit heavier than any cannabis I've ever smoked and you should most likely find a way to contact a physician.
To achieve fatal levels of THC in your system, you would need to smoke an amount of cannabis that would be humanly impossible for anyone to smoke and live to tell about it. As a matter of fact, when the US government tried to substantiate their claims of death by cannabis, they had to attach gas-masks to the test monkeys. I'll repeat that: They attached gas-masks to monkeys that they were deliberately trying to kill with marijuana. The monkeys did, in fact, pass away. However, the cause of death could not be pinned on THC overdose. The cause of death was the smoke itself. The unfortunate side of being a mammal is that when you substitute smoke, of any flavor, in place of the oxygen that is desperately needed by your lungs and blood, you will suffer from asphyxiation(suffocation, lack of lung function). The only thing that this study proved is something that firefighters have known since the inception of their necessity; too much smoke, at one time, can kill you deader than dead.

October 21, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"If you get up every day, go to work, pay your bills and support your family (including medical insurance) then I'll vote to legalize marijuana for you.
Let's see a "million man medical marijuana march on Washington" that also includes a charter promoting enforcement of laws designed to keep intoxicating substances out of the hands of minors and people who cannot be productive citizens while using drugs and alcohol.
Felons can't buy guns and can't vote. Why should they be able to buy booze or pot? Get the idea?
So, if you want my support, don't tell me that cannabis is not bad. Show me that people can use it in a way that supports civic responsibility in our communities, and I'll vote for it."

There you go again with that BS about cannabis users being nothing but a bunch of shiftless, worthless deadbeats. Who keeps feeding you these lies about these people? And where did you get the idea that any of us want there to be some reckless, haphazard, anarchy-based system for cannabis that would somehow put a blunt in every kids lunch-box? You seem to think that we want medicinal cannabis grown and sold on every street corner in the nation. Where do you come up with this crap? Obviously, and it kinda goes without saying, there needs to be oversight and monitoring of whatever system is used to make sure that the right people are getting what need and the people that don't need it get none. This isn't going to be some magical "wave o' the wand" operation that we'll have the luxury of "setting&forgetting," if you will. Once again, there is going to have to be a cooperative effort between the police, parents and the leaders of the cannabis industry. This is already well recognized and put into use. Every single medicinal marijuana law in America has provisions that prohibit this substance from being too close to schools and children. The enforcement of these policies is left up to the police and the cooperation of dispensaries in this matter must be beyond reproach.

Oh, and as for a million of us marching on our capital, could you imagine the spin Fox could throw on that? "Mob of Mental, Malicious Medical Marijuana Monsters storm our nation's capital."
Anyway, who needs to march? How much was truly accomplished by the original Million Man March? Are you blind to validity of the fact that there are now 14 states in our union that have shown majority support of medicinal use of marijuana? How many people do you think are represented by those votes? I'd bet it's more than a million, by far.

October 22, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

One of the reasons that hemp cultivation is outlawed is that the hemp plant and the marijuana plant are so similar that anyone who wanted a little magic garden would only have to put it in the middle of a few acres of hemp and nobody would ever see it without going through plant-by-plant.

I don't say I support the logic. That's just what it is.

My second home is currently surrounded by several hundred acres of cotton plants. They're just starting the harvest. They also grow peanuts and wheat on the same land in a rotation plan. Industrial hemp would probably be much cheaper to grow and more productive than cotton, with the added benfit that after they're done, my front yard wouldn't look like a football field full of tampons.

When you say the parents are responsible for the dropout rate, you are partially right. What about their parents? Drop-outs who are children of drop-outs who are children of drop-outs are the problem. It's been going on for generations and will continue. Drugs, and pot in particular, have been a part of the problem at least since the 1960s, and probably before that in some urban areas.

I would be willing to bet that there have been plenty of liquor store and convenience store robberies in urban areas where some or all of the proceeds were used to purchase marijuana for personal use or resale. Gotta get "seed money" from somewhere.

I think that when you attack me as a conservative Bush-loving etc. then my politics and religion are germane to the discussion.

The thing I know about your drug use is what you have admitted yourself, and the apparent effects it has on your memory and perceptions. You fit the DSM diagnostic criteria for drug abuse just based on the information given in your posts.

Finally, anoxia (lack of oxygen) provides pain relief all by itself. I've long believed that the initial rush of pot was due to lack of oxygen rather than the immediate effects of THC. As I discovered when I was a teenager, if you inhale cigarette smoke and hold it down, it makes you feel lightheaded. Sound familiar?

I'm not trying to change your mind about anything. I'm just trying to point out that marijuana (among other substances) is a huge social problem in this country, and it will take an effort comparable to that leading up to The Civil Rights Act of 1964 to change the status quo.

Abortion was a hotly debated issue for decades until the Roe Vs. Wade decison by the U S Supreme Court. It would take the mmjpatient vs. Obama decision to do the same for hemp/pot/cannabis.

October 22, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Trump,

And, again, I'll tell you that the gang and violence problems are so big that removing the drug trade would only turn them to other types of crime. Home invasions, bank robberies, supermarkets, etc., would be next.

You are missing the fact that gangs are already willing to murder people and suffer their own fate, including death, out of hopelessness. The "technicals" in Somalia are a better example of what we'd have without the drug trade. Murder, mayhem and martial law would be the result of a general breakdown in law and order.

Recreational use has created an enterprise which can't just be shut off. What is a 21 year old illiterate felon going to do when his cash flow dries up? Go back to college, get a degree, move to Steamboat, buy a house in SB700 and telecommute? The problem goes back to the Spanish conquest of the New World, slavery, and everything evil that has been tolerated in our society ever since.

Our problems stem from overpopulation, unemployment, underemployment and lack of parenting, to name just a few. None of those problems would be solved by legalization of drugs even though drugs have played a role in all of those areas, and more.

You cannot have a free and peaceful society. Without sever restrictions on behavior which restrict freedom, disorder will prevail. If people would be peaceful voluntarily, we wouldn't need police or military forces.

The war on drugs is, indeed, a wasteful use of our national resources, but the people causing the waste are the drug users and traffickers, not the people trying to stop it.

The "surge" worked in Iraq. There was a "surge" yesterday against La Familia, where something like 1500 people were arrested all across the country.

We don't need to close Gitmo. We need to take everything from there, move it to places like Midway and Wake island, and Adak Alaska, and relocate traffickers to penal colonies so far from the mainland that escape is physically impossible. Put them out there without drugs or weapons, and let them fish and farm and kill each other off until the problem solves itself.

By the way, I have often been challegned to provide evidence of offical wrongdoing. The current story in the news of the former ACET officer under investigation for, among other things, giving out official police information ought to give you some idea why ACET never seems to capture anyone "important" around here. The cops have to literally stumble over the traffickers while looking for something else in order for a "respectable" person (with a home and a job, etc.) to be busted for trafficking. Several recent cases illustrate my point.

With the amount of drugs floating around this town, and the population of users at all socioeconomic levels, either the police are not looking for drugs in the nice neighborhoods, or can't get search warrants, or people are being tipped off by insiders. Probably, it's all of the above.

October 23, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich, Although culture and family play a role in our gang problems, the largest single contributor is money. When these inner city kids can make 1000's of dollars on the street selling drugs, they can puchase any weapon wanted. There is simply no way to encourage them to get acceptable jobs when the money disparity is so large.

When you combine large amounts of cash with automatic weapons you get gangs and violence that cannot be stopped by our under armed Police forces. Taking away the flow of money by eliminating the black market will do more to keep our youth out of the gang culture than any other single thing that can be done.

The problems of drug use, abuse and addiction are well documented, and you are not wrong when you discuss the negative effects of those issues. However, those issues are actually separate and distinct from the issues with Guns, gangs and violence. As always with human greed, it is the money that creates the problem. Take away the money and the problem becomes more manageable.

October 23, 2009 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Bravo Trump! I don't think I could have said it better myself.
However, not to detract from what's already been said, the differentiation between the word "use" and the word "abuse" seems to be missing from many of the opposition's statements. Most every anti-drug website qualifies use and abuse as the same thing. I think that if there's to be any hope for the naysayers, they will have to re-work their entire argument, from start to finish, in an attempt to more clearly communicate their concerns.

October 23, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich,

If your points about gangs and violence continuing regardless then why does the historical record give a different answer?

WHen this county imposed prohibition on alchohol, we experienced significant growth in the problems of Guns, Gangs, violence and bootlegging. Just like the blakc market for drugs today. Al Capone literally ran Chicago and had the money and influence to keep it that way.

Once prohibition ended, the police were able to catch up with and control the mob element largely because their money ran tight and they no longer had the influence and political control that comes with excess cash.

Sound even vaguely familiar? The black market for drugs has created the same problems that the prohibition of alchohol did. "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."

Ending the black market supply chain may not completely fix those problems, but it would go a long ways towards getting it under control. IT"S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

October 23, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

trump,

History shows that when the alcohol money dried up, the Italian Mafia went into other businesses and used threats and violence to limit competition. Illegal drugs were part of it.

The mayhem that would be caused by legalization of all drugs would be enormous. Where do you draw the line? Do you want to get counterfeit drugs from China into the system for things like high cholesterol, sleep disorders and herpes? Imagine college kids overdosing on heroin. How about Ecstacy from a vending machine next to the rubbers at the gas station. Have you really thought this out?

A much better idea is closer regulation of the financial system to prevent tax evasion and black market transactions. How? Require all cash purchases over $10 to be tagged with an official government ID and reported to the IRS. Make people account for the source of their money. Require everybody to have a bank account and use a debit card or EFT for most transactions. The federal government already requires all employees to participate in EFT for their paychecks; the money goes straight to a bank account on payday. No paper checks are issued at all.

If the underground cash economy was compelled to pay income taxes as required by law, all of us would pay less. The deficit would disappear. Drug enterprises would be deterred and crippled by the ability to track people who spend money without earning it through a traceable source.

Like you said, it's all about the money.

October 24, 2009 at 2:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich- Where do you get your crazy pills from? I guess you haven't thought out any of the logistical nightmares involved in recording all cash transactions, that are over $10, for subsequent IRS review. You know, the banks already have something like this in place? Every time a private citizen transacts $10,000 or more with a bank, a mandatory notification is sent to the IRS. I guess they decided that investigating/tracking every cash transaction over $10 dollars would be a bit ludicrous. Could you imagine being audited for stopping off at a convenience store and paying cash for a pack of Camels, a Lg coffee, a pack of gum and crappy week-old blueberry danish?
You really should put more thought into the things you say. Why don't we just rename it, "The United States of The Bank of America" or, "The United States of Financial Dictatorship?"

October 24, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Wow. You really rose to the bait on that one.

Tracking cash would kill the drug trade as well as the tax evaders. All this without legalizing dangerous drugs . . .

9 out of 10 people ahead of me in line are paying with checks or credit cards. The banks are already keeping records anyway.

Social security and ID numbers are already online. It would not be that hard to tie a drivers license number or other official ID card into the system to make this happen. We live in a different world since 9/11, and you can't get on an airplane without a government issued ID anymore. It's just a matter of one more type of transaction and no different from what's already being done for most transactions anyway.

October 24, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

The amount of personal freedoms, privacy and rights that have been abandoned since 9/11, in the name of "security & protection," is horrifying. The USA PATRIOT act is a shameful piece of legislation to be upheld by an allegedly "free" nation.

And, honestly, am I the only one that sees the inherent difficulty in tracking cash on a national, per-capita basis? What could we possibly stand to gain by doing this? We all know that tangible paper money and real metal coinage will be a thing of historical reference in the not-so-distant future. The advances in technology, especially in RFID microchip technology, are already pushing their way into our daily lives. Now, all you have to do is wave a credit card at something and your account will be charged. Amazing.
The money is all fake and worthless anyway. It hasn't been worth anything ever since they abolished the gold-standard. Soon enough, there will be a micro-chip injected into every baby born in a hospital. Money will become credits issued to your identity number on a regular basis, unless, of coarse, you're not a good little worker bee like all the rest. This will be done to make sure that all of the little slaves in the system feel justified and validated in playing their part. "I work, therefore, I live and I live, therefore, I work," and "Good thing I have this job to take care of me. What ever would become of me without it?"
The ones that don't participate will be ostracized and cast-out from their midst, as to keep the others from being contaminated. All I can say is I'm just thankful that there have been people in my life that have been patient enough to teach me wilderness survival skills. With the limitless array of technologically advanced weaponry and destruction that mankind has been able to bring upon itself in the past, I will be flat out shocked if we(the world) survive technology. Eventually, someone is bound to be dumb enough to abuse technology to the point where most of mankind will be forced into the decision of being hopelessly enslaved if they do or helplessly damned if they don't.
But, apparently, marijuana is the biggest concern facing some.

October 24, 2009 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

The truth comes out.

We must be able to live without working at a square job that pays taxes to the lawfully elected government chartered with protecting us and providing the infrastructure that allows our society to exist.

Let's take an inventory here, mmj. You have wilderness survival skills. You are a veteran. You're obviously literate and somewhat cogent. So, what's the problem with having a job where you get up and go to work every day and support yourself? Is it that you can't have the kind of job you want AND smoke marijuana all day long?

There's a movie you need to see. "Little Big Man," starring Dustin Hoffman. The hermit segment applies here, I think.

The challenges provided by technology also provide increased protections of our freedoms. If you think that people are not already being screwed over by the system, you are wrong. I've had thousands of dollars stolen from me under color of law in Routt County, and the irony of your comments is that better tracking of cash and property transactions would easily show who has been involved in the outright theft of cash from me for diversion into personal profits enjoyed by others.

A good business accounts for all its cash and property. If our governments did the same, corruption would be damn near impossible. When the books are balanced and somebody ends up with too much, then it's time to check the pants for bundles of money, if you get my drift. The more money and the more accountability that is tracked by the more automated systems, the harder it will be for criminals to victimize the rest of us. That also means that it will be harder for petty criminals and drug traffickers to launder the proceeds of their illegal enterprises.

We're all about four minutes from brain death all the time. Life is tenuous, and individual lives don't really mean that much. Hitler's Germany and the former Soviet Union prove that authoritarian governments can abuse their citizens, but also, in the information age where everyone knows everything just about as soon as it happens, there is far less chance of anyone being able to gain that much power or do that much damage alone. The real danger is that NOTHING will get done because you cannot obtain a majority to decide to do it.

Think about it; if it was impossible for people to live by criminal activity, our society would have far more resources to devote to productive activity. Everything would be cheaper because of lower costs. We'd all pay less in taxes because everybody would be paying taxes.

And, uh, (cough - cough), you seem to be the one most concerned about a steady supply of marijuana . . . .

October 25, 2009 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich- Believe me, as far as concerns go, a steady supply of marijuana isn't really something that I have to worry about. With the amount of dispensaries in this state, people that hold medical cards don't have to worry about that kind of thing. That's pretty much the whole point.
And a majority? Aich, I think the fact that there are an ever-increasing number of states that contain a majority vote for medicinal approval of cannabis, speaks for itself. There is no better data to provide the basis for analyzing the national view of marijuana. To boot, the new federal marijuana guidelines in place will finally provide law enforcement authorities with the opportunity to go after some of the problems that far out-weigh marijuana. I eagerly await the news stories that depict the real criminals and real violent offenders that will finally be able to be brought to justice because of renewed resources in the law enforcement community.
Having had law enforcement in my own family, my heart truly does go out to cops. They should be better funded and better equipped to battle the true evils that exist in society today. There should be way more funding for Internal Affairs in order to ensure that our protectors are above reproach and not involved in corruption. Maybe there's a way to prevent the type of power abuse that manifested in Pittsburgh during the recent G20 summit. Maybe we, the tax-payers, need to bear a little more fiscal responsibility and make sure that our taxes aren't being wasted, misused or abused by those that have been entrusted with them. I just hope that it's not too late to reverse the damage incurred by our recent years of civic irresponsibility. The world doesn't look at America the way it once did. Somehow, America's great name was allowed to be soiled, again. The most unfortunate part of the whole deal is that the ones that caused most of the problem(s) won't live long enough to be part of the solution. The younger generations are going to have to bear the brunt of the load. The burden will be out of their hands, if it isn't already.

October 25, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sledneck (anonymous) says...

Jesus, you people really need a job!

October 25, 2009 at 3:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

I've got a great job, sledster.

mmj,

Put down the Kool-Aid. The rest of the World can go take a flying leap. Know how I know?

People are still risking their lives to leave other countries and live here illegally because of the freedoms and opportunities we enjoy.

Successful immigrants don't share liberal values. They already know what socialism, poverty and oppression are like in those countries that allow liberal and social practices to prevail.

Start with the Cubans in FLorida, and move on up to D.C. to talk to the Africans and Asians. Convenience stores all over the southeast are being taken over by Indians and Pakistanis. They're all going to be great Americans one day, and they'll get to be that way by hard work and integrity -- things American schools have forgotten to emphasize lately.

The key is that people who are willing to work to get ahead won't abide those who wait for a handout.

Run down to the Kum-n-Go at The Curve and take a look. That's the future of America -- not the pot dispensary.

October 25, 2009 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"The rest of the World can go take a flying leap."
It's attitudes like this that make a lot of Americans really angry. If you truly believe that freedom and democracy is the best thing since sliced bread, then surely you believe that everyone should be governed in a like manner. I mean, if the whole world was as fortunate as we are, in this nation, could you even imagine what it would be like? Almost unimaginable. But it's a worthy aspiration. However, the attitude of, "we're the best, so who the hell cares what anyone else thinks," doesn't accomplish much past notifying with those around that you've discovered a way to reverse the path of standard defecation and store vast sums of waste in your cranium.
There is no denying that this nation wouldn't be half of what it is today with-out the people that have legally emigrated from their native lands in hopes of a better future here. That's how America became a nation in the first place. Nevertheless, should the current invasion of illegal immigrants be allowed to continue, our nation will suffer great consequences on multiple levels. The necessity for peoples of other cultures to be a part of ours is undeniable, but the current citizenry of this nation should be our nation's primary concern. If we can't take care of ourselves, how the hell can we offer advice to other people on how to live?

Some would have us believe that a dispensary, and maybe even the marijuana industry in whole, has nothing to positively contribute to their respective current, and/or future, locales. The numbers on legalizing marijuana tell a different tale. According to California state tax collectors, over $1.3 billion US dollars in tax revenues, annually, could be generated by enacting the Marijuana Control, Regulation and Education Act (AB 390) that is currently being decided in their state. Extrapolate that on a national scale, even just the current 14 states that have medical marijuana laws, and consider the revenues that could be generated from the federal RE-legalization of industrial cannabis for paper, clothing, food and bio-fuels production, and it becomes very easy to start seeing all of the needs in our country that could be met by these enormous funds. The best part is, by RE-legalizing the substance that such a voluminous black market has been created around, the foundation of the marijuana black market, and all of the lovely things that come with a black market, will be compromised and begin to crumble away. The financial benefits alone warrant the RE-legalization of cannabis.
I'd like to see what Kum'n'Go has to offer in the arena of economic stimulus and improving the vision of the future for America.

October 30, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

I saw on the news that Breckenridge is thinking about total legalization. It's on this Nov. ballot.

October 31, 2009 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well, now that the federal guidelines leave the governing and regulating of marijuana to the local and state officials, it will be much easier for small(er) communities to decide for themselves. It will be interesting to see the geographical and regional differentiation between pot laws. Someone needs to start up a cartography company that distributes maps to medical marijuana patients, like me and at least 45 others in Routt county, that delineates safe zones for our medication. With such an option left to be determined by local governments there are bound to be conflicting, or at least mutually indifferent, laws regarding the possession of medical marijuana.
This is one article that put a smile on my face;
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flight...

October 31, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Wrong, mmj.

Medical, yes. All other uses, no.

Sigh.

It would be interesting to know how you make your living. Most of your business ideas seem to revolve around ways to make a profit from cannabis.

Roach,

Breckenridge cannot legalize marijuana for general use. It's still against the federal laws, and they will enforce it.

November 1, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

If you have to resort to pointing out technicalities to give yourself the ground needed to declare that I'm wrong, maybe you should re-count how many valid points you have laying around. And regardless of whether it's medical or not, the police forces of this country have way more and way bigger fish to fry other than marijuana. That's the bottom line.
My business revolves around the weather. And even if my job was to grow/sell pot, I've got a fancy little card from my state government that says it's ok, as long as all of my dealings are with other people that have the fancy little card. Even if there were no medical marijuana regulations, anywhere, I'd still be adamant about RE-legalizing cannabis. There hasn't been a single bit of "fact" presented to me that's given me the overwhelming reason to believe that cannabis should be eradicated from the face of the earth. In fact, everything I've seen on the subject has only served to point out the absurdities that envelope the current war on marijuana.
What are you so worried about for me anyway? What concern are any of my business dealings to you?

November 1, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sledneck (anonymous) says...

Roll 'em big
Smoke 'em slow
Wear sun glasses
So the boss won't know

November 1, 2009 at 4:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

"Breckenridge cannot legalize marijuana for general use. It's still against the federal laws, and they will enforce it."

Thats funny Aich, you said almost the same thing about the mmj laws and yet they are passed and active. A very similar initiative was defeated statewide by Colorado voters a couple of years ago and there are several States that are considering exactly these initiatives in 2010 or 2012.

So how is it not possible, please tell us just how exactly are the Fed's going to subvert the will of the people in these cases? In case you haven't noticed, the groundswell is moving against you on this issue. From California to Maine there are ballot measures coming.

Funny how almost the oppposite is happening in the Gay Marriage referendums. In those referendums the public has stood up and denied each and every one of them. Seems to me that John Q Public is making their voice heard and the Government is being forced to listen. These two issues have absolutely nothing to do with each other, but in each case the will of the people is beginning to force policy.

November 2, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

There's always eye drops.

November 1, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And just to add a level of clarification for you aich, the purpose of the law in Breck is to legalize, for all adults, the possession of up to 1 oz. of marijuana, medical or not, and all bongs, pipes and other pot paraphernalia.
Is that "taps" I hear being played off in the distance? Or is the rhythmic beating the result of people everywhere pounding their own personal nail into the coffin where the marijuana prohibition lies?

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10...

November 3, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

The silence is almost deafening in here. Over three whole days and nothing? We're all waiting for your next point.

November 6, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Actually, over 5 whole days since your last post Aich. You go on vacation or something? I find it hard to believe you've given up, if that's the case.

November 6, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

No more sense in arguing with a stump . . . or is it a stem?

When Judge Garrecht tried to hold officers in contempt who were enforcing a federal law in the Don Nord case, a federal judge in Denver quashed it on grounds of The Supremacy Clause and The Controlled Substances Act.

I think the point you're both missing ( you and trump) is that I'm not against legalization of pot. I merely claim it will never happen because of the destructive effects that substance abuse have in the lower-income sectors of our great nation. People who have survived in virtual war zones, surrounded by poverty, illegitimacy, gangs, drug-driven autogenocide of young African American men, etc., will never support it. The African American female heads of households understand the issues involving drug use, crime and gang violence. They are the voters who will hold the key to the pot legalization issue on a national basis.

Now, as for pot users, anyone who can use responsibly as an adult should have the right to do so. It should not be against the law, and would not be, except for the history of abuse.

Did you happen to see the story over the weekend about the woman who claimed that pot was the only medicine that would help her? She went the wrong way down a one-way road and killed a couple of people. Herself included, I think.

Long-term substance abuse of any kind can alter a person's ability to make sound decisions. When that impacts innocent bystanders and society as a whole, it becomes a public health issue.

mmj, I have come to understand that you are so hooked on the effects of THC that you cannot think and act responsibly. It's only a matter of time until you pay the price. I suspect you're already paying it now in terms of relationships, economics and long-term security. I think the physical cause may be your claimed dopamine deficiency, and the brain wants what it wants . . . to feel good.

People who are mentally ill and/or drug dependent experience personality changes that others can readily see. I've seen it in my own home. Bizarre behavior generally has a cause, and it's ever more tragic when the person exhibiting the behavior thinks there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.

So, I haven't given up. I don't have a dog in the legalization fight, and I've made it clear that if you want to deal with me in business, you come with money from visible sources if you're buying, or you come clean and sober if you're selling. Otherwise, I don't want you in my home or my business.

Oh, but if they DO legalize hemp, I'll be growing it for a profit. I have enough fenced acres to make it worth my while, and enough big dogs out patrolling it to keep out the riff-raff.

November 9, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich, first and foremost, your attempt at humor was shameful. Don't ever quit your day job. Secondly, Mr. Nord's case was all the way back in the Bush era, back when DEA had free-reign to do whatever the hell they wanted when they found a poor, old guy in a wheelchair that had a medical card from his state. The DEA officers should have been suspended without pay and forced to take classes on state law. Those slimy agents got off lucky, on a technicality. But, like I said, that was Bush era. Now that there's an actual brain, containing actual intelligence, in the White House things are going a bit differently. Next, I could care less about your views on RE-legalizing marijuana. The hypocrisy of your entire argument is made evident by your admission that you wouldn't mind growing it and making a profit off of it. I will continue to correct the BS that you try to preach.
The RE-legalization of marijuana is no more impossible than the repeal of the prohibition of alcohol. The nation is demonstrating this state-by-state. By 2010, there could be medical marijuana laws in over 40% of the states. Are all of the black mothers living in the other states aich? What about California? Ever heard of a little place called Oakland(affectionately known to it's medical community as Oaksterdam)? How many black mothers do you estimate live in these areas? And to boot, how dare you even bring race into the whole debate! "African American" mothers, to make sure to get my political-correctness in here, have absolutely nothing to do with legalization on a national scale. The only thing they have to worry about is being a good mother to their child(ren), just like every other maternal figure on the planet. The fact that you have to try to play some sort of race card in this argument is exemplary evidence of just how inept you are at arguing this topic.
And let's talk about abuse. You claim that marijuana was made illegal because of our innate inability to control ourselves while under it's influence. This could not consist of any less truth. The Marijuana Tax Stamp act of 1937, the piece of legislation that began the prohibition of marijuana, was enacted to enable law enforcement to arrest Mexican immigrants for possession of cannabis. Read a book or two.
You seem to be left with nothing other than imagining, in your head, how miserable, destitute and impoverished my life must be because of marijuana. Your imagination is very creative but it's not based in reality. Reality is you know nothing about me. You've never met me, that you know of, and you honestly have no idea who I am. I could get on here and make all sorts of grand assumptions about how you live your life, but that would make me an assumptive a-hole. I know that you're a hypocrite and you belong with the rest of the sheeple that graze across our nation aimlessly.

more to come......

November 9, 2009 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

You are dead wrong. Federal law controls. Period. If you don't like it, then fight it up to the U S Supreme Court and let them tell you the same thing,

Nothing short of an armed revolution and a victory by the pro-pot revolutionaries is going to change things without an Act of Congress. In case you hadn't noticed, Congress has other problems.

You need to get out more. Go volunteer to spend a year in inner-city Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Detroit or some other area where 18-year-old kids can't read and tell me that marijuana is not a problem. While you're there, convince their mothers to vote for legalization of pot.

November 10, 2009 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Once again, you know nothing about who I am or what I've done with my life. You're making blind accusations that, subsequently, make an ass out of you. I've done my time in downtown LA and Pomona. I've cleaned the neighborhoods with a broom, a shovel and a wheelbarrow. I've met the destitute and hopeless that litter skid row and their burden has nothing to do with marijuana. Their burden is caused by the system that justifies putting people in jail for a plant while wearing one hat, and turns a blind eye to the crackhead lighting up on the corner while wearing another hat. So long as the corner is in the correct neighborhood, out of sight is out of mind and no one has to be the wiser. That is their burden. Bear in mind, this is the same system that made sure there was an armed presence to enforce class separation during hurricane Katrina. Would want all those poor black people getting into the nice areas, now would we? Maybe things will be different now that the President is black? However, now Sammy Sosa is white, so who knows?

November 10, 2009 at 6:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And of coarse Congress has bigger fish to fry other than marijuana. You'd have to have been living under a rock for the last decade to think that marijuana is the biggest concern on the Congressional plate today. With the housing market, idiotic economics and unemployment ravaging the nation, there are undoubtedly larger issues than RE-legalizing marijuana. However, the benefits of RE-legalizing marijuana would prove to be a heavy hitter against the financial woes that face so many Americans currently. Industry and subsequent jobs would be created almost overnight and the needs of the nation would begin to be met with its tax revenues in under six months. To continue to ignore the benefits of RE-legalizing the plant that once helped drive our nation to the top would only serve to further bury us in our economic dismay.

November 12, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well aich, ya got enough BS in ya to manage filling multiple comment boards with mindless, fear-based propaganda? It seems like you keep giving up one for the other but you can't keep up with the truth on any of the comment boards about marijuana. Don't feel bad, you're not the first.

November 16, 2009 at 8:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

After all, it's pretty difficult to argue with a cure for cancer.

http://hightimes.com/activism/hager/6...

November 22, 2009 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The real truth is that as long as you can get marijuana, nothing else matters to you.

"High Times" is hardly a credible source.

November 23, 2009 at 7:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich,

You're a blind fool. My medication is near and dear to my heart because it allows me to live a life with less pain and depression in it. My sincerest hope is that, some day, the federal government will renounce it's non-sense and lies that it's propagated and that the millions of Americans that have had their rights violated by the same system will receive an apology, however empty or shallow it'd be coming from our government, for the decades of injustice and waste that it has perpetrated on it's people.

And as far as a credible source goes, how about this? This is probably complete horse s#!+ too, right?

http://www.phoenixtears.ca/

November 23, 2009 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

You're a sad case. Get help.

November 23, 2009 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I'm the sad case? You're spitting in the face of the thousands of years of history of the most wondrous plant the world has ever known and I'm the sad case? Boy I sure hope I get to be like you someday aich. I can't wait to be all perfect and flawless and awesome, like you.
And I am getting help aich, just like the ever-growing number of other medical marijuana patients throughout the country. The change is coming and your denial of the reality of what the current marijuana reform trends are leading to, is truly ridiculous. How can you logically explain away the number of voters out there that have ok'd the use of medicinal marijuana in their state? You can't!!! How can anyone living in a democratic society sanely claim that the vote, at least and especially in this case, does not represent the will of the people? Over 25% of the states in our union have decided that the federal government is wrong about it's views toward marijuana and it won't be that long before that number rises above 50%. Mark my words aich, if the prohibition of marijuana isn't on it's death bed right now, it's at least in the room getting ready to lay down. Get over it!
Seriously, what benefit befalls you when you get on here and try talking s#!+ about people, like myself, that choose cannabis over chemically concocted pharmaceuticals? All of the stereotypical rants that you attempt to assail us with are more than outdated, obsolete and childish. They're lies. Marijuana use does not cause brain damage, in fact it has been shown to promote healthy cell growth in the center of the brain. Marijuana does not instantly make you inseparable from the furniture on which you're sitting. It doesn't make you want to beat your wife/girlfriend and it doesn't give you the urge to seek out drugs that are a more hardcore. There has not been a single study which produces negative results concerning marijuana that has been successfully replicated. In other words, to achieve the negative data they were looking for, they designed the test(s) to produce the desired results. They cheated.

In regards to Rick Simpson and the Phoenix Tears website, it makes you wonder, if cannabis-oil really can cure cancer or even if it has the possibility of treating any aspect of cancer, why in the HELL would the FDA be so apprehensive about conducting tests to validate the alleged claims? The answer lies in more questioning. 1) Why would an administrative body, like the FDA, be non-supportive of legalizing a naturally occurring plant that has been proven to be the most medicinally beneficial of all plants? 2) Would the FDA, being run be former execs of big pharma and big food, ever do anything to upset the companies that formerly held their employ? 3) What would happen to the pharmaceutical companies that engineer the chemical toxins/poisons that are nowhere near as effective as the compounds found in cannabis?

November 23, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Digitalis is derived from a plant.

Morphene and codeine are two more.

Paclitaxel and docetaxel are aboth anti-cancer drugs derived from the bark of the yew tree.

There are over 100 current drugs in use around the world which are still derived from plant sources. Why bother to chemically engineer something that you can extract directly from a plant? Makes no sense. Plant cells do the job much more efficiently and cheaply.

Dude, I get your point.

Ranting at me isn't doing anything for you. You sound spoiled and needy. Let it go.

I had a long talk with my teenager this weekend about the difference between something being a problem, or not. Looking at pictures of naked women in a magazine is a natural thing for a boy his age to do. Spending hours online cruising the internet for photos of women in lacey underwear instead of doing your school work is something else. Get it? When anything interferes with jobs, school or family/friend relationships, it's a problem.

Compulsion, obsession, abuse and addiction are all different shades of the same color.

You claim that pot allows you to function, and you could not function without it.

What do you do when you "function?" Would you be just as well off "sedated?" Would your contribution to your own support and the good of the community be any less if you were in a coma?

Are you the chief of police? A doctor? A teacher? Do you run Ski Corp? Do you go to school? Has pot allowed you to rise above your chronic depression and successfully run your small business?

Did you kill your brain's ability to make dopamine by huffing acetone or paint thinner? Is that the root of your problem?

I think we'd all like to hear about it.

When I was 18 years old, I went into a barber shop near campus to get a haircut. An old man who swept up and shined shoes convinced me to get a shine while I waited. He talked the whole time I was in his chair. The thing is, it took me a while to figure out that he was not talking to me. He was just talking. He was a high-functioning paranoid schizophrenic. That's sorta how you're coming across. It's sad.

Seek help.

November 23, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

First of all you pompous piece of s#!+, all of those lovely drugs you rattled off come from plants that are not illegal to possess. None of the plants that they come from are anywhere near as useful as marijuana when it comes to other things you can do with the plant. You obviously don't get it. It's about the right of the average citizen to acquire/grow/use marijuana.
I'm really happy for you about the whole talking to your kid thing. You're a great dad aich and I'm sure that you've got a limitless supply of knowledge and insight into countless matters. I'm obviously not telling you anything you don't already know. You know best for you & yours and that's fine. You're very confident in your righteousness and no one can argue that point. You KNOW for a fact that marijuana would do more harm than good if it were RE-legalized for the free people of this nation. No one or nothing is going to change your views about the subject and that's your right as a free American.
A review of our verbal bouts shows clearly that neither of us are very keen to the idea that the other is correct. It would stand to reason that we would both rather see things differently and that's what makes it a debate. I would think that the line between debating with someone and making unfounded, slanderous implications or suggestions about someone would be fairly well understood by the average adult. Your temper is getting the best of you and you're letting your imagination take you away on malevolent flights of fancy. Your vision of people that use cannabis, myself included, is that we are worthless, unproductive members of society. We're all just a bunch of self-seeking, self-serving introverts that just sit around and do drugs all day, right? They're can't be one among us that hasn't dabbled in a bit of everything or at least open to anything that might offer a "high," right? I can assure you that neither of those previous two descriptions fit me or any of the other medical marijuana patients I know personally. And as far as my own personal medical history is concerned, it's as much your business to know mine as it is for me to know yours. But for the record, I have never used any "drugs" other than tobacco, coffee, cannabis and mushrooms one time on a camping trip.
And what's really sad is how you've completely misunderstood what I said when I was explaining how the deficiency of dopamine in my body necessitates medicinal use of marijuana. I suffered a back injury in high school that has caused me a great deal of pain ever since. THC, when absorbed into the body by ingesting marijuana, acts to promote the release of the body's natural pain killer, dopamine. My dopamine deficiency is another way of saying that my body doesn't make enough dopamine, by itself, to control the pain in my back. Therefore, I have a medical need for marijuana.

November 23, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

My injury originated in wrestling practice but it has been re-aggravated several times through-out my career as a hard-worker. I may not be a doctor, a lawyer, a schoolteacher, a firefighter or a politician. But I do know what I am. I am a hard-working veteran that enjoys smoking marijuana. It's the best thing since sliced bread for me and I could honestly not care any less about what anyone else thinks about it. I will enjoy marijuana until the day I die and that's my right as a human. I will also never cease talking about the medicinal wonders that marijuana has to offer.

So, if it's lack of medicinal value that's spoiling the whole thing for you, here, do your own research:

http://www.greenpassion.org/f11/grann...

November 23, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh yeah, and here's another article to beat that dead horse one more time.But it's probably not a reliable source at all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...

November 23, 2009 at 9:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

And one time, at band camp . . . .

Any health professional reading your posts can see all the classic signs and symptoms of drug-seeking behavior.

I wish I could have just one whole day where I never felt any pain at all. It's not going to happen. Mine is a result of injuries suffered on active duty, in the line of duty. I could easily be sitting at home collecting a disability check for a variety of conditions, but instead I made the choice to live better and provide more for myself and my family than a check from Social Security and the VA will provide. Pain is part of the package. I suppose that smoking pot or taking pills might remove the pain, but I also know that I could not function at the intellectual level required for my profession.

Something I learned in the armed forces, while flying search and rescue helicopters, is that most of the people who survive a disaster save their own lives. The SAR bird only gives them a ride home before they die of exposure. The actions which prevent people from drowning, burning, etc., are normally things they do for themselves. Even the terminology -- survivor -- acknowledges the fact that the role of Search and Rescue is to find survivors and bring them home. The idea that the SAR helicopter is going to swoop down at the last second and pull somebody out of a sinking ship before they drown is pure fiction. It might happen like that one time in 1000. So what's the point?

Dealing with pain is exactly the same way. If you are suffering from skeletal pain as a result of a back injury, pot is not doing anything to reduce inflammation and get to the source of the pain. Pressure on nerves causes pain, and our bodies compensate for injured muscles and tendons by causing other muscles and tendons to pick up the load. This overloads the other muscles and tendons and leads to muscle spasms which causes pain. It is very possible that your use of pot to block the pain rather than dealing with it through physical therapy or surgery is contributing to the problem, and leading to more pain.

It used to be a common practice in professional sports for team doctors to inject pain killers into joints in order to allow players to perform in spite of injuries. One of the results was that without pain to limit acitivity, the injuries worsened. If you are using pot to deaden pain without doing anything else to correct the problem, you may be aggravating your own condition which -- in your case -- justifies your use of pot to kill the pain. You've probably used pot so much that your brain has stopped producing dopamine; no need for it. Pain is the stimulus which causes the brain to respond.

So, my take on your condition is that you've gone down the road that justifies smoking pot, and don't have any incentive to try something else. There are lots of people who look for pain and welcome it as a reason to take drugs. It's part of addictive, compulsive drug-seeking behavior.

(cont)

November 24, 2009 at 7:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

You've gone the extra step of trying to justify your behavior by championing cannabis as a cure-all for everything. You're trying to make it "okay" for everybody so that you're not doing something that carries a stigma.

It becomes more and more clear that you have both psychological and substance abuse issues. The fact they have been aggravated by a physical injury which results in pain and provides justification for drug-seeking behavior is all part of the picture. You're crippled by pain, which gives you internal justification to seek drugs, which leads to your rationalizations regarding pot use. Unfortunately, you have given up control of your life to marijuana, which seems to be very effective in causing people to seek it out and use it in those who exhibit addiction to THC. It's not an addiction like heroin or morphene. It's a conditioned response caused by your brain feeling happy when it's got THC, and not making its own chemicals to make up the deficit when the THC wears off. Why should your brain go to all that work to make chemicals when a quick toke provides the "reward."

So, I don't know you, and this is all speculation, but it's a classic set of conditions which is often seen in human beings. A complete medical history and workup, including psychological evaluation, would probably reveal the fact that you are someone who is prone to use physical ailments to justify not carrying on the usual activities of life; work, education, building family ties and relationships, etc. If it's not something that comes to you easily, on your own terms, you'd rather not put out the effort. I suspect that there are things you want and could have if you were willing to work for them, but you're not willing to do so through conventional methods, and so you are fantasizing that legalization of cannabis would enable you to make a living growing and selling the stuff, and that you'd make enough money to pay somebody to do all the other things you don't want to do, like cleaning the bathroom, preparing food, cleaning up the kitchen, changing the sheets, doing laundry, hanging up clothes, etc.

Does it sound like I know you? In a way, I do. I know someone just like you. The difference is that he thinks he can be an NFL or NCAA college football coach without having played football at the college level. He's crafted his own fantasy to find a job that will bring in enough money to pay someone else to do all the things he doesn't want to do, and also, to provide him with a "dream job" and the adoration of sports fans. Sound nutty? Sure. It is.
(cont)

November 24, 2009 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Anyone who reads your posts can easily see that you suffer from ignorance, most likely on multiple levels.
Aich, marijuana is chock-full of anti-inflammatory properties. That's one of the many reasons that marijuana is medicine for so many people.
You have obviously not done any research on the topic and are, therefore, talking completely out of your a$$.

Here's a source for that too. Let me know if it's not credible enough.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/ne...

November 24, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Another fellow who fancied himself as the greatest driver in the world (at age 20 I think it was) and had a long history of speeding violations, and at least one wreck due to excessive speed in a brand-new car his parents bought for him, got hooked on the idea that a "Master Driver's License" allowing those who qualified to drive as fast as they wanted to (in cars equipped with special lights so that other vehicles on the road would have to move aside and let them pass) would be adopted by the states. This was just before the first gasoline shortage, which brought an end to the muscle car era, and dashed his hopes. Oh, and while this was going on, he neglected his REAL responsibilties, which included going to class and doing his work in college, to write letters to the state and federal governments pleading for the "Master Driver's License" to be enacted. He flunked out of college twice (while Mom and Dad continued paying the bills) pursuing this and other unrealistic goals. He finally graduated from a not-very-good college twelve years after graduating from high school, with minimal qualifications, but has done okay since about age 35. Instead of doing the work to graduate from the top-ten engineering school he started at age 18, and was well-qualified for, it only took him 17 more years to muddle through until maturity overcame denial and he figured out that most people have to actually work to succeed. Duh.

These are just two out of thousands of examples of people pursuing an unrealistic dream rather than facing up to the facts and doing something productive with their lives. Steamboat is full of artists who wait on tables for a living. Acting is another one where people are led into unrealistic expectations by their imaginations. Music? Do I have to go on?

You are not going to be able to make a living and a life promoting cannabis. I know you think you can, but you really can't. Why? Because if it IS legalized, there are lots of people with more money, business sense and non-impaired mental capacity who will beat you to the punch. Big business will always win. I can prove that one to you also, but that's another book's worth of explanations, and you wouldn't read it anyway.

You are suffering from delusions of grandeur, and you need to get a grip. Your family members are right. You should listen to them. Ask for their help. You need it.

November 24, 2009 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

blablablablabla......

That's some very lovely psychobabble aich. You keep digging deeper and deeper. You think you're laying out who I am to a T, but you really couldn't be any further from actuality. Besides myself, there are 3 other people that live under the same roof that I do and I do more house-work than any of them. Having had my cleaning "skills" honed in the military, I seem to be the only one in the house that can't stand a sink full of dishes. I see them, I do them. To me, clothes do not go on the floor and cleaning the bathroom entails more than wiping the seat down.

You keep creating this image in your head of what I must be, look like, live like, dress like and act like. You can't help but demonize me by comparing me to some losers you know because you hate the things I stand for and believe in. You trying to play the role of dad with me and it ain't happenin'. But getting on here and spewing your rants probably makes you feel really good, so have at it buddy.

November 24, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

"You are suffering from delusions of grandeur, and you need to get a grip. Your family members are right. You should listen to them. Ask for their help. You need it."

Just who in the hell do you think you are? Do you think you know me? Do you know anyone in my family or any of their beliefs on anything? How dare you make assumptions about my family! I could tell you to shut the hell up and listen to your family's concerns about how much of an arrogant a$$ you are and tell you to go get help for it. It might not be true, but it sure sounds good, at least to me.
You're so convinced of your own superiority in every way that you feel justified in judging anyone you choose to judge. You build these imaginary walls around your beliefs and spend your entire life inside your own little, close-minded box. You know absolutely nothing about the things you're talking about and your imaginative narratives are making you look dumber than you've ever looked.

Keep it up man. You're doing a bang-up job.

November 24, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The only things I know about you are the ones you've revealed to me. You have a relative who was/is in law enforcement and disapproves of your pot use. Remember? If not, read back to where you posted that fact. How come I can remember it with everything else I do in my life (and this is the smallest portion of what I spend my time on) and you've apparently forgotten you made it public knowledge.

When I throw out a point, and you refute it with facts, that's new information. When I throw out a point and you react with anger, that affirms the correctness of my conclusion.

The issue of neatness is interesting. That reveals why you want cannabis to be legalized. You want to be able to deal in openly, without stigma. You also clean up after the others because of the "stench." You'll tolerate other people's sloth and filth because you have no place else to go where you can "use your medicine."

I've got several reasons for pursuing this thread. One, you're being confronted with a view that differs from what you want. You probably avoid that elsewhere in your life.

Two, I'm sure some other people are reading this and know that I'm drawing you out as an academic exercise. You have anonymity, which doesn't exist in therapy, so you reveal things that you wouldn't tell a therapist in person.

Third, you've never claimed to be an "honorably discharged" veteran. As a veteran, that would be an important point to make to justify your pot use for medicinal purposes. An honorably discharged veteran could get a VA loan and a job with the government, including 5 or 10 (for a disability) points hiring preference.

So, you are a very interesting and illustrative case for someone in the HMPT (human factors, manpower, training) field. There are people in our government who think that giving someone a job and an opportunity to succeed is the answer to our drug and homelessness problems. It didn't work under Lyndon B. Johnson's war on poverty and the resulting CETA (comprehensive employment training act) programs, and it won't work now.

Certain sectors of our society view mental illness differently than others. In some communities, being called "crazy" is the worst thing possible. In Steamboat, being bipolar or in therapy is almost a badge of honor, especially if you're also getting Social Security disability payments. Our society loves the drama. It's just not very productive. (cont)

November 24, 2009 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

So, seriously, I wish you'd look around and try to figure out what you'll be doing ten years from now. If your answer is "smoking marijuana for pain" then you really owe yourself and your family more.

You can "win" by getting your way and staying just like you are, but what have you won when it's all over?

November 24, 2009 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

I warned you.............. Kitchen Table.

November 24, 2009 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Was that supposed to be, "Kitchen Sink?"

November 24, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Your short term memory ok Aich??? Did you forget my previous postings?

reminder

To paraphrase Barney Frank:

"Debating this issue with you is like arguing with the Kitchen Table. "

This is of course based on your continued diatribe against all things Marajuana. Your opinion flys in the face of current research and is becoming the viewpoint of the minority. You may have had your day, but on this particular issue you are far behind.

I would bet a large amount of money that your daily scotch is affecting your brain power more than MMJ's daily toke. Care to put it to a test?

November 24, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Like I said, the whole "marijuana kills brain cells" thing was a complete farce and nothing short of a complete lie. The study that provided the ammo for this claim was basically an experiment to see how long it would take to suffocate a monkey with smoke from a ridiculous amount of marijuana. Marijuana has now been scientifically proven to promote new cell growth at the core of the brain.

November 24, 2009 at 6:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And by the way, my discharge was honorable. There are still two points that present a problem, as far as me working for the federal government in any capacity goes. #1) How many federal government jobs do you know of that skip drug testing, and #2) why in the hell would I want to work for the federal government again anyway? I served and that was plenty for me.

November 24, 2009 at 8:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Dumpy_the_Wise (anonymous) says...

Aich-
"You are not going to be able to make a living and a life promoting cannabis. I know you think you can, but you really can't. Why? Because if it IS legalized, there are lots of people with more money, business sense and non-impaired mental capacity who will beat you to the punch. Big business will always win. I can prove that one to you also, but that's another book's worth of explanations, and you wouldn't read it anyway."

Apparently, you missed the election race. And sorry, your rant on big business beating up everybody of cannabis would never happen. Unless somehow you convince me with your "you wouldn't read it anyway" logic, your post makes no relevance to anything.

How do you know cannabis won't expand big business? How do you know that some idiot might just think he could make a living making a business out of cannabis. Why, that just might make crime and drug deals over marijuana go down, wouldn't that be something??

November 24, 2009 at 9:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well aich, it seems as though my claim that "you're making yourself look dumber than ever" is being substantiated by a rise in the number of contributions from other posters. You're "logic," simply doesn't have a leg on which to stand. I keep waiting for someone to come to your aid and "fight the good fight" with you on here. I guess I'll just have to be content in waiting.
And here's another guy that you'll love aich. He's another loser that doesn't have a clue or a hope. I bet all of the sources he quotes are totally bunk too. But you're more than welcome to read the whole thing, if you dare.

http://www.alternet.org/story/144115/

November 24, 2009 at 9:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I've been picking on you because I hoped you would engage in some self-examination and make sure that the life you are choosing for yourself is going to carry you through to a comfortable end.

As for the other posters, it's just more pro-drug rhetoric and denial of reality.

It has been determined recently that the Roman Empire probably fell because the population was poisoned by lead used in eating and drinking utensils. Acids in wine and other foods dissolved lead so that it could be absorbed into their bodies. It caused dementia and insanity among the ruling class and made them incapable of running the country effectively.

Everyone who is using marijuana and claiming that it should be a part of a balanced diet may be falling for the same kind of poison. How do you know it's not hurting you if you cannot perceive the negative effects which are readily apparent to others? You seek out the company of others who use it because they support your habit.

The picture I have of you now is a lot closer to what you have been claiming all along; that you're a pot user but otherwise, you're a solid citizen. You still haven't talked about how you support yourself, but maybe that would reveal your identity. There's still the possibility that you are living on a Social Security disability check and dealing pot on the side to make ends meet, but that's between you and the authorities.

Dumpy,

Maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events, but Wal-Mart drove Boggs Hardware out of business, and Staples killed Pilot Office Supply. Village Inn and McDonalds polished off a number of small locally owned restaurants. National chains always have enough money to cut prices and lose money while they drive their local competition out of business. Supply, distribution and retailing of legalized marijuana would follow the same marketing approach as tobacco and alcohol. Big business always has the advantage over small locally owned enterprise as long as there is enough traffic to make it on volume. It's called, "Economies of scale."

The old Monopoly board game perfectly illustrates how it works. The player who, by luck of the dice and making sound decisions, accumulates the most property and adds houses and hotels gains an exponential advantage over the other players. It comes down to making the other players pay more than they can sustain, meaning making them pay out more than they take in, until they are bankrupt. Big business knows how to do this very well, and they are not relying on people who stay high on pot to make their decisions. The most a local entrepreneur could hope to do in the long run is get a job working for the chain by leveraging their experience in the small business. I've seen people who used to work in their own locally owned small business who now work for the bigger chains selling the same kinds of stuff.

(cont)

November 25, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

The price of marijuana will PLUMMET if it is legalized. Steamboat Springs is certainly not a place where you can grow it cheaply (meaning outside, using sunshine). Opening the market to commercial growers would mean that supplies would increase without regard to demand because of the hemp by-product market. Tobacco is only expensive because of the taxes placed on it, and tobacco is hard to grow. Marijuana cultivation is simple by comparison. So, you guys who think you'll corner the market by growing something that's easy to grow, and sell it at a premium prices, are dreaming.

I looked up what it takes to grow the stuff, and frankly, I have an ideal spot to produce three acres of plants, and could probably harvest twice a year. A few hundred pounds of 12-12-12 and a drip irrigation system fed by my existing well would produce a bumper crop. I figure 14,000 plants. Even at $10 per plant (1/100th of the street value assigned by the law enforcment agencies where my land is located), that's $140,000 a year. Yeah, I'd be all over that as a business idea. Who in this area is going to compete? Now consider how much land is available around the country and what hard-working farm folks can do when they set their minds to it, and you'll probably end up with locals buying a pack of Georgia or Kentucky-grown marijuana cigarettes at the gas station for less than they can buy locally grown stuff.

And here's one thing I know for sure. People in this town buy what's cheap. Quality takes a back seat to price everywhere you give them a choice.

In a free market, hard work, investment and sound planning will beat out the small "boutique" producers every time. So, if and when legalization happens (like, never, in reality) you'll see your dreams of cannabis-fueled enterprise turn into a situation where people will be lucky to find a job behind the counter at 7-11, but will be able to purchase cheap commercially produced pot. That is, unless people continue to traffick on the black market to avoid paying the tax on it.

Just like any other agricultural commodity, large scale production wins on the business side. A person cannot even own hens and produce home-grown eggs as cheaply as they can be bought in supermarkets in other parts of the country. None of you can make a go at a busines selling pot if it comes open to competition.

There's this thing called a "business plan" which most of us who've run small businesses have put together at one time or another. The great unknown is always the marketing side. Forecasting demand is very tricky.

I some parts of the country, anybody with 100 square feet in the back yard can grow tomatoes. Lots of people do it. You see folks with pickup trucks parked on the side of the road selling the tomatoes they grew at home. While that's great for people who like to eat tomatoes, nobody is getting rich selling tomatoes out of their gardens. It would be the same with pot.

November 25, 2009 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich, I think thats the point. Take the money out of it and stem the flow of cash to gangs and guns.

You have not done your research well at all if you think you can get two crops per year.

Someone tell him why..

November 25, 2009 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

trump,

If I could grow one crop per year, commercial growers could beat me at the market and that's the whole point. I'd be better of with tomatoes. I can't grow corn as cheaply as I can buy it.

And gangs will just find some other unlawful way to make money. When I was a kid, we heard about heroin all the time. Then it was pot and cocaine. Now it's crystal meth. Ecstacy. Etc. It will always be something. Booze has always been legal, and it's dirt cheap compared to drugs, but new drugs always come along. Don't expect that to change.

People who want money will get it. I won't speculate in writing about ways that can happen, but look at what's going on in places like Mexico and Afghanistan.

Gang members are not going to get real jobs and be good boys if pot is legalized. It's an unrealistic concept, and would only lead to more and worse violence in the long run.

Use your imagination. Oh, uh, maybe you should lay off the weed for a couple of weeks, and THEN try using your imagination . . .

November 25, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

You're an imbecile aich.

November 25, 2009 at 8:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Get a job.

November 26, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Dumpy_the_Wise (anonymous) says...

"I some parts of the country, anybody with 100 square feet in the back yard can grow tomatoes. Lots of people do it. You see folks with pickup trucks parked on the side of the road selling the tomatoes they grew at home. While that's great for people who like to eat tomatoes, nobody is getting rich selling tomatoes out of their gardens. It would be the same with pot."

Really, Aich? Then why do drug dealers make so much money off of it? I'm pretty sure that if it was legal and sold by the government, then that would encourage others to use it, therefore companies can make rich off of it. And like you said, the price would plummet so dealers no longer can really sell the product unless it adjusts to the pricing companies put pot on.

So what was your post supposed to prove? How Monopoly works like the world of business? Thanks, but no thanks, you just threw a lot of non-topic information on how Wal-Mart could make money easier than Main Street businesses. While that is true, I don't see what the problem would be with it. We still have dealers lose their biggest product and more money for America to get out of this ecomonic downturn.

November 26, 2009 at 6:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Get a clue.

November 26, 2009 at 8:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Can't tell you how nice it is to be able to sit back and see how this all plays out.

No nation can expect to get out of debt by selling intoxicants to the productive workforce. Much more money could be raised by a national lottery. That's the one thing that organized crime can't compete with -- the amount of money wrapped up in state-run lotteries. It's the one way they've figured out to collect taxes from the poorest citizens.

Drunk driving is still a national plague. DWAI from marijuana would be no better.

Ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. After that, it won't matter.

November 28, 2009 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I can't tell you how nice it is to sit here and watch you self-destruct your entire "argument" and make a complete fool out of yourself. I'm still waiting for one, singular individual to come on here and give you any kind of support. I would thoroughly enjoy watching you attempt a candidacy for any office in the land.

Furthermore, your claim that some sort of "national lottery" would be the answer to our nation's financial woes is absolute lunacy. And to think that this "national lottery" would deal a fatal blow to organized crime......well, maybe you know something the rest of us don't. And you know aich, I bet this nation is competent enough to RE-legalize marijuana and institute a national lottery too. Who says we can't have both?

Aich, for the five-millionth time, yes. Law enforcement still has a job to do, as far as enforcing the laws that keep everyone else safe. No one is saying that there won't be some idiots that operate a vehicle when they damn well shouldn't. That's what cops are for. However, the affect(s) that marijuana has on a person are completely different from the affect(s) that alcohol has on a person. Marijuana has been proven to improve concentration and promote safer, more cautious driving all the way around.
http://www.iowatelecom.net/~sharkhaus...

And unless you're planning on dying with-in the next 5-10 years, you're going to see some radical things happen in this country, as far as it's stance on marijuana is concerned. Plus, I thought we already went over this. People are waking up to the fact, I say again FACT, that their government initiated a national prohibition on marijuana with little more than LIES. The truth is spreading and it's spreading like wildfire.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...

November 28, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Dumpy_the_Wise (anonymous) says...

Aich-
Of course selling marijuana will not get us out of the recession. Yet, how do you know it won't help? And that, is my question for you.

November 28, 2009 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich, do you know me? Have you seen me smoking pot somewhere? Is your memory OK? I have publically stated that "I do not get high" multiple times on these forums and publically call you out on this issue.

Every time you seriously disagree about this topic you acuse the people you disagree with of being stoned, or useless stoners...Your arguments are circular and self serving.

Pilot, I take offense at this.;... Why is Aich allowed to slander others????? Please remove his post on November 25, 2009 at 10:27 a.m

November 29, 2009 at 7:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Trump,

You're right. I don't know you. I have no reason to think that you smoke marijuana. Except that you are always on here defending it.

Our society is poisoned with pharmaceuticals.

1 in 4 Americans is eligible for food stamps.

'Splain to me how those two things are not related, and how legalizing drugs will help.

November 30, 2009 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So ignorant.

November 30, 2009 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

This will be my last post on this thread. I take offense at the accusations and innuendos being thrown out by Aich in order to justify his point of view.

Read thru my posts on this issue and you will find that I have NOT supported the abuse of illegal drugs. What I have consistently argued is that we are fighting the problem of drug use and abuse in the wrong way. When I argue for the legalization of these substances, I do so because it is my belief that we could more effectively fight the problem in other ways. Treatment and education is far more effective that crime and punishment.

Aich writes:

"Use your imagination. Oh, uh, maybe you should lay off the weed for a couple of weeks, and THEN try using your imagination . . ."

Your slanderous accusations are only a smoke screen to try and say that anyone who disagrees with your approach on drug abuse must be high. If you would read and remember the past postings of those you are debating with you would be more effective. If you would open your ears and listen you would be more of a human being.

November 30, 2009 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

He just doesn't seem to have that capacity with this issue. To him, everyone that supports it must be an abuser and a loser. He lives in a fantasy land where Anslinger is God and Cannabis is the Devil. There is only so much information that can get through to him because of his solid, albeit ignorant, resolve on a majority of the points for not RE-legalizing marijuana. There are just some people that will never get it and that's their lot in life.

November 30, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Trump,

You're anonymous.

Under United States law, libel generally requires five key elements. The plaintiff must prove that the information was published, the plaintiff was directly or indirectly identified, the remarks were defamatory towards the plaintiff's reputation, the published information is false, and that the defendant is at fault. However, if there is third-party communication, but the third-party hearing the defamatory statement does not believe the statement, or does not care, then there is no injury, and therefore, no recourse.

I can't seem to find any place where I identified you. I doubt you could find a third party who would care . . .

Further, I stated an opinion, not a "fact." It was intended to be humorous and satyrical. The implication was that anyone who thinks the way you do MUST be smoking SOMETHING!

I cannot find any medical authority which claims long-term success for the majority of people who are treated for substance abuse. I got this from the NIDA website:

"It is estimated that 70 percent of individuals in state prisons and local jails have abused drugs regularly, compared with approximately 9 percent of the general population. Studies show that treatment cuts drug abuse in half, reduces criminal activity up to 80 percent, and reduces arrests up to 64 percent."

There. Treatment is only 50% effective in reducing abuse. So, you want to let everybody have free access to drugs when only 50% of abusers can be successfully treated?

Sounds like a bad idea to me. But that's just my opinion.

November 30, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

There you go again making no distinction between users and abusers.
And as far as all your preaching about treatment and abusers being locked up in jail, according to the Dept of Justice's website the "drug" that the majority of their possession arrests, and arrests in general, revolve around is marijuana. It's been that way since before 1997 and somehow the number of arrests grow every year at an alarming rate.
It's hard to deny that America's "justice" system has had a pretty hard lean on marijuana for some time. And why not? It's a huge cash cow for them. Our prison systems are becoming more and more privatized and they're filling their quota with people that get busted for possessing a plant. I know I've gone over this in other posts but it remains a very pertinent issue for me and countless others. To create an economic structure around a drug war, especially one that primarily targets marijuana, is an absurdity and an outrage to millions of Americans. And that group of Americans is not only comprised of people that enjoy using marijuana but it is increasingly being joined by people who do not partake and are really just sick and tired of the waste and corruption that envelopes the war on marijuana. There is a volume of other causes and tasks that could be attended to with the billions of dollars that are wasted annually on the pursuit of busting potheads or even pot users, for that matter.
Oh, and the only "9%" of the general population that allegedly "abuse" drugs regularly....do you honestly believe that most people are going to be forth-right with this information when it's asked of them in any survey or questionnaire?
Very convenient statistics for being presented with-out their source.

December 1, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Nobody goes to jail for small amounts of marijuana. You know that. Trafficking is the big deal, and people who use the stuff know how much they can have without tripping the "trafficking" wire.

The National Institute on Drug Abuse is part of the National Institutes of Health. You can find their website at http://www.nida.nih.gov

The complete article is at http://www.nida.nih.gov/newsroom/06/N...

I'll put the NIH and NIDA up against "High Times" any day.

My reason for posting the information was to illustrate to Baron von Trumpenstien that the best minds our country has already realize that drug treatment only works on half the abusers. That's a lot better than zero, but the point is that treatment is also a money pit with no end in sight, and the only people who would benefit from it are the people who get paid to administer treatment. It would be a goldmine for them.

It is very expensive to incarcerate petty criminals. Did you know that, locally, they get a bill for their room and board in the jail? A lot of them get out on work release so they can keep their jobs and support themselves.

I think you'd find that most people locked up for possession of small amounts also did stuff like, oh, fight with cops, flee to avoid arrest, etc. I've bailed people out of jail right here in town who were busted with pot following a traffic stop, and they were never locked up again. Possession with intent to distribute is what you're talking about, and it's based on the quantity. Most of the time, these charges are pled down to simple possession unless it's blatant and obvious that they were trafficking. "No visible means of support" is often a factor in deciding who to prosecute, and that's a whole bunch different than busting someone with a home and a job. The prosecutors don't waste money on simple possession cases, so give it a rest.

December 1, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

If you recall, which seems to be an issue for you as of late, I've only quoted High Times as a source once. One time aich.
Secondly, what kind of logic is wrapped up in making it ok for people to have small amounts but not ok to have much more than an ounce? How in the hell are the people supposed to get the small amounts? The "small amounts of pot" fairy? The supply chain has to come from somewhere and it can't just produce 1oz quantities at a time. A single plant can manifest over eight times that amount in a single harvest. The logic simply isn't there. The system is set up so that the justice department has a steady harvest of growers and suppliers to fill their jails to the brim. I never argued that people were being tossed in jail, recently, for having under an ounce. The problem lies in allowing the customer base to thrive, according to the law, while simultaneously and continually incarcerating the people that provide for the customers desires. I can't find a way to look at this that reveals any kind of justice.

And forgive me if I have a hard time believing that you've bailed people out of jail for possessing pot.

December 1, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Truth hurts, don't it? How do you think I know so much about people who abuse pot, eh?

In the first place, it's unlawful to have even a "small" amount. The only reason they make a distinction is that those who have enough to sell to others are different from those who are guilty of "simple possession."

Don't raise the issue of logic with me. You probably took a course in it, right? A philosophy course, probably? Go take a course in mathematical logic instead of listening to people who have tried to find a systematic way to get around taking moral responsibility for their own actions.

You've really hit the nail on the head. The reason you can't find justice in this situation is because the whole thing is screwed up in the first place. Pot is illegal under federal law for EVERYBODY. When they start making exceptions to the single overriding laws passed by the single governing body (the United States) then things are sure to get all kinds of screwed up in a hurry. For now, you're cheering for the losing team on this issue according to the will of Congress, so you're going to have to deal with the problems.

December 2, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Don't talk to me about the truth hurting bub. Anyone who reads your crap would have a hard time believing that you've bailed stoners out of jail. The alleged "fact" that you've bailed stoners out of jail doesn't qualify you as an expert, in any way, shape or form, in matters that pertain to the character of people who "abuse" pot. And I would love to hear your dissertation on what differentiates abuse and use. Maybe I just don't remember you doing it already.
And I've never taken any courses in logic or reason. The only source of logic or reason that I have to draw on is the sum of my life experiences and the lessons I've learned by having the opportunity to interact with truly wise people. Of all the lessons I've learned in my life, one of the foremost, and most beneficial, is that every individual is responsible for their own choices. Life proves this at almost every turn and most would see it as self-evident after a certain maturity is achieved. I fail to recognize exactly who it is, exactly, that I'm listening to that has such an aversion to taking responsibility for their own actions. Maybe you can help me out there aich.
I agree with your assessment that the whole thing has been screwed up from the beginning. However, I would back up the start of the time-line a little further than when states began looking into legislating medical marijuana, when you claim that the exceptions to federal law started happening. If we're going to talk about exceptions to the rules, I can't help but re-tell the story of Robert Randall. He was the first person to obtain medical marijuana, grown by our government, under the IND program that began investigating the medicinal value of marijuana back in November of 1976. That's just 6 years after marijuana was federally classified as having ZERO medicinal value. Seems to me like growing federal pot for someone who had a medicinal necessity for it, is extremely exceptional, considering only six years had passed since marijuana was federally classified as a non-medicinal schedule 1 narcotic. But hey, maybe I'm just not thinking clearly enough yet this morning.
And as far as opposing the "will" of a congress that is supposed to be comprised of members who represent the will of the people that elected them(not saying that this actually happens), I'm glad to be in the ranks of those that think likewise. If congress truly did their job, do you honestly believe things like the USA PATRIOT act would slip through their grasps? The real losing team here is turning out to be the American people and the problems that they're dealing with aren't being made any easier to bear by dumping billions of dollars into a war on marijuana that cannot be won, ever.

December 2, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Medical research is one of the allowed uses of marijuana. It's in the law, plain as day, for anyone to see. Mr. Randall was just a lucky rat to be in the experiment.

Your "re-legalization" mantra is getting old. Cocaine was legal at one time too (actually, it was just not "illegal"). It was the same for all the opiates, and various concoctions that sometimes killed people.

Drugs are an expensive and destructive scourge on our society that cannot be eliminated by legalizing them. It's just an expense that a civilized society is going to have to bear for the good of everyone because new abusers are being born every day, and so are new suppliers, and that's human nature.

As for the difference between "use" and "abuse," I refer you to the DSM.

http://www.dawnfarm.org/pdf/DSM_Abuse...

DSM-IV Substance Abuse Criteria
Substance dependence is defined as a maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to clinically significant
impairment or distress as manifested by one (or more) of the following, occurring within a 12-month period:
1. Recurrent substance use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home (such
as repeated absences or poor work performance related to substance use; substance-related absences,
suspensions, or expulsions from school; or neglect of children or household).
2. Recurrent substance use in situations in which it is physically hazardous (such as driving an automobile or
operating a machine when impaired by substance use)
3. Recurrent substance-related legal problems (such as arrests for substance related disorderly conduct)
4. Continued substance use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or
exacerbated by the effects of the substance (for example, arguments with spouse about consequences of
intoxication and physical fights).
Alternatively, the symptoms have never met the criteria for substance dependence for this class of substance. (cont)

December 3, 2009 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

DSM-IV Substance Dependence Criteria
Addiction (termed substance dependence by the American Psychiatric Association) is defined as a maladaptive
pattern of substance use leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of
the following, occurring any time in the same 12-month period:
1. Tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
(a) A need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or the desired effect
or
(b) Markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance.
2. Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
(a) The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance
or
(b) The same (or closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.
3. The substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than intended.
4. There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use.
5. A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover
from its effects.
6. Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use.
7. The substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent physical or psychological problem
that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (for example, current cocaine use
despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression or continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer
was made worse by alcohol consumption).
DSM-IV criteria for substance dependence include several specifiers, one of which outlines whether substance
dependence is with physiologic dependence (evidence of tolerance or withdrawal) or without physiologic
dependence (no evidence of tolerance or withdrawal). In addition, remission categories are classified into four
subtypes: (1) full, (2) early partial, (3) sustained, and (4) sustained partial; on the basis of whether any of the
criteria for abuse or dependence have been met and over what time frame. The remission category can also be
used for patients receiving agonist therapy (such as methadone maintenance) or for those living in a controlled,
drug-free environment.

December 3, 2009 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I didn't ask what you could find in a book. Where is the line that you, personally, draw between use and abuse? And don't say you just go by the book, that's lame.

December 3, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

If you can do without it, it's abuse.

Drinking alcohol socially to the point of impairment is also abuse. If it impairs your ability to operate machinery or injures your health in any way, it's abuse. That basically means that if you drink more than "a" beer, it's abuse.

Using any controlled substance that is not prescribed for you, or in a way other than prescribed for you, is abuse.

By the way, "going by the book" is not "lame," because that's the accepted authority and opinion used by the medical community to qualify for benefits, treatment, etc.

In my own book, the use of any substance to relieve pain which exceeds the dosage required to allow you to fall asleep is abuse. That is, if you are lying in bed unable to sleep because of pain, anything more than the minimum dose that allows you to go to sleep is abuse. That usually does not include a dose that makes you feel high.

December 3, 2009 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I can do without coffee but I guess that doesn't prevent me from abusing a couple cups every morning. My point is, there's the text-book answer for abuse and then there's the real life facts about abuse. Is someone who has more than "a" beer abusing alcohol? Most would say no. Now if the same imbiber subsequently proceeds to lash out violently at others almost every time they get to drink # 2-3, I'd qualify that as abuse.
Oh, and so people are only allowed to have pain relief when they sleep? I don't think that's what you're going for but I have to ask. And anyway, is there even a small enough dosage of marijuana that provides pain relief but no high? The short answer is no.

December 3, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cheesehead (anonymous) says...

cocaine and many opiates are not schedule 1 substances, they are still used for medical purposes.

December 4, 2009 at 11:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Very true. And the LD-50(the scientific quantifier that indicates what the lethal dosage is for %50 of a test group. A.K.A... an overdose) of cocaine and many opiates can be easily achieved since their quality/strength/purity is mostly a thing of mystery at street level. However, there has never been an LD-50 discovered for marijuana and it is therefore humanly impossible to overdose on it's active ingredient, THC. That would lead a lot of logical people to consider that marijuana may be safer than most of the pharmaceuticals on the market today, if only for the simple fact that you can't OD on it.

December 4, 2009 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Really aich? Over 24 hrs pass and you have nothing to refute about my previous comment? Wow.

December 5, 2009 at 8:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

You're a very sad case. Glad I'm not destined to rot away on disability, seeking a high from a weed while the world passes me by.

December 6, 2009 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Who ever said I'm on disability? I've been working since I was 13 and I even graduated high school. And I'm pretty sure that you don't have the slightest clue as to who I am and/or how old I am(not 22).
The only thing that passes me by is the continual pain in my back. I've been to chiropractors and I've been on pharmaceutical pain killers before. For me, there is nothing out there that offers the relief that THC does. Whether you agree with it or not, it's still the truth and it seems to be the truth for millions of Americans. Now, if that makes me a sad case, according to you, I guess that's the way it's gonna be and there's probably not a whole hell of a lot that can be done about it.
The thing you seem to be misunderstanding is just how little your opinion matters to anyone on here. If I'm wrong and there's some grand following of the great "aich," I invite his devout followers to come forward and speak up. I'll wait. I've been waiting for some time now and the tally still fits on one hand. It would appear that you're flying solo on this one aich.

December 6, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Since I am not connected to your brain, I don't know if your pain is real or not.

I do know that I don't care to have anything at all to do with a person who is chronically intoxicated by any substance, because I've been around enough different people with the problem long enough to know that chronic use of mood-altering drugs has other effects on welfare, personality, motivation, family relations and finances. Even if it's legal, and comes from the drug store, it affects the way people think and act, and it's a burden on everybody who has to hang around and endure the efffects of it.

So, if you have no choice, then you are a sad case, and you're right, nothing can be done about it. I truly wish things were better for you.

It's clear from your posts that you are literate and intelligent. Why not go to CMC and work on a degree? Put your mind to work solving problems for others, or communicating on their behalf. You could write books if you wanted to. I'd venture to say that you could become a lawyer without any trouble at all; it's not that tough in Colorado. In California, you can go to law school over the internet at night after work for about $5,000 per year.

If your first thought is, "I can't do that when I'm high," then yes, you are truly a sad case.

December 7, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

At this point, I would dare to ask if you're connected to any brain at all. I can assure you that the pain in my back is as real as cancer.

The whole point of taking marijuana as medication in the first place is to allow a person to have some of their life back. The people that use it long term adjust to the effects that marijuana has on them and they learn to go on with their life as normal. With out the pain-killing effects of marijuana, I admit, I'd most likely be a raging a-hole due to having to deal with the pain on my own all day, every day. By staying medicated, the disruptive pain-messages that course through my nerves begin to dissipate and my mind is allowed to re-gain a fuller focus across the board. I stress this fact by pointing out your implication that you believe me to a person who possesses literacy and intelligence. The only dealings that you've ever had with me have all been in this venue and the only dealings that I've ever had with you have all been while I've been "intoxicated" or under the blessed influence of marijuana. That being said, it would be fair to assume that, at the very least, marijuana doesn't have the effect on my vocabulary, sentence structure, thought process(es) and verbal jousting ability that you would have people believe it does.

Now, in regards to your assumption that I'm not using my mind for anything, especially not solving anyone else's problems or speaking up for anyone, once again your assumptions have brought you nothing but disappointment. You don't know what I do with the time that I don't spend on here debunking your BS. By the way, the time I spend on here is speaking out for others. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people out there that have the ability or the know-how to oppose the antiquated and obsolete views held by those that uphold the prohibition of marijuana. Some people don't know how to speak out and for those I offer what little I can.

So in summation, "I can't do that when I'm high," hasn't gone through my head for a long time. It hasn't been something that I've had to worry about for a while now. That's not to say that marijuana has no effect on me but it does suggest that marijuana is not as limiting to me as you'd like to think. And by admission from you yourself, even a stoner can be intelligent and literate.

December 7, 2009 at 2:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

You have convinced one person.

Yourself.

December 8, 2009 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Right. And you don't even have the issue resolved enough with-in yourself to be able to justify speaking out against RE-legalizing marijuana on one hand and on the other claiming that you'd be one of it's farmers if it were RE-legalized. I can't be the only one that sees you as being "conflicted" on this matter. Some would even go as far as to claim it as hypocrisy.
I know that you're going to have to get the last word in here, but keep in mind how much of a waste of time this is for you. After all, you don't even have a dog in this fight. You're just a spectator.

December 8, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

We've been over the list of stuff that was once not regulated and is now illegal. No need to cover that ground again.

Do you expect them to put cocaine back in Coca Cola too?

Have you noticed the absence of a certain debater since I posted the NIDA information on 50% of abusers being incurable, even with treatment?

You think I'm wasting time? You're hoping that Santa Claus will come and legalize marijuana. Lots of luck with that one.

December 9, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Why in the hell would I want cocaine back in Coca-Cola? That would be horrible! People would start turning into super a-holes and with the obesity rate in this country the way it is we would basically be committing genocide via heart-attack or overdose to over half of the nation. The great thing about marijuana is that you can't OD on it, but let's not beat that particular dead horse anymore than we already have.

And if you think it's somehow your big, bad, scary data from NIDA that's responsible for making certain people not comment as much, I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoying a good laugh right now. Aich, this comment board is almost 350 comments long and spans the course of over three months. There have been plenty of times when it's just been you and me going back and forth for extended periods. It's been my belief that many people refrain from leaving comments on this board because they can read the posts and see that between the two of us we can cover both sides of the debate fairly well. Or maybe they just don't have the patience to put up with your crap like I do. The truth is that we can make all kinds of assumptions as to the whys but we'll never truly know unless they get on here and tell us why.

December 9, 2009 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Trump_suit quit posting because Aich will not have an honest debate. In his words:

"Use your imagination. Oh, uh, maybe you should lay off the weed for a couple of weeks, and THEN try using your imagination . . "

AND

"Further, I stated an opinion, not a "fact." It was intended to be humorous and satyrical. The implication was that anyone who thinks the way you do MUST be smoking SOMETHING!"

This is not the first time Aich has made blanket accusations without having a clue. he once stated that anyone East of Saint Louis must be stoned due to the poor service that he once received in Tennassee. He accuses the guy at the lumber store of being high because he would not help, and accused his carpenter of being stoned because he forgot a tool.

Finally he accuses me of being stoned because my viewpoint is different than his. These are not the tactics of an honest person, and any further debate with this individual is useless and foolish. You simly cannot win a argument with a zealot that does not recognize truth and will not concede any points in an argument.

Bottom line is that debating issues with Aich is like discussing politics with the kitchen table,

There is no valid response.
All of your points good/bad are ignored.
There is no discussion taking place, just an idiot(Aich) with a keyboard spewing faulty logic with no hope of ever actually having an intelligent debate.

Once Aich accused me of being stoned when I post my opinions, I lost all interest in further debate with him. He is obviously losing the argument and resorting to child like accusations and behavior. That is the reason I have quit posting on this issue.

December 9, 2009 at 2:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

trump,

The carpenter you mentioned had his pot use discussed by his coworkers at some length. The guy had no short-term memory. He was the lowest paid member of the crew. He was the guy they called last when they needed somebody, because he was usually AVAILABLE. Does that tell you anything?

You spout information that has no scientific, social or psychological merit and then don't understand why people don't agree with you.

I've lived and worked with substance abusers. When they're not using the substance, they're addicted to something else, like church, or therapy, or running, or video games. It's a self-centered obsession. It interferes with their occupations, family relationships and income/financial status.

There is a great desire to "treat" people when no effective treatment exists. Our society is jammed with lost causes who go nuts and cause harm to people all the time, but we are also swamped with lost causes who just make life miserable for themselves and their families.

The cure is for normal people with age-appropriate emotional development and intelligence to shun the trouble makers and let them fend for themselves. The old concept of "tough love," where you toss them out and make them sink or swim on their own when you've done all you can definitely applies.

Substance abuse is the result of genetics combined with -- let's face it -- a character flaw -- which may be related to the physiology of the brain -- that causes anti-social behavior. The more science learns about the relationships between mental illness and brain chemistry and physiology, the more it becomes apparent that a vast number of human beings are not fit to live in a civilized society. That must be why thousands of years of civilization have failed to eliminate criminals, deviates and anti-social behavior. If "learning" to act in your own benefit is not possible for some people, then the cure is to develop some medical treatment that society will tolerate. Lobotomy as a treatment for behavioral disorders is no longer an accepted therapy. It was abused for financial and political gain; big surprise, right? Instead we set sex offenders free and make them promise to stay away from kids. What happens? They get better at hiding what they're doing.

Substance abuse is a part of the human condition, and we as a society don't have the resources to support millions of people who are substance abusers. Legalizing it is not going to do anything but cause more harm to more innocent people, and the criminals who profit by trafficking will just find something else. You might as well try to stop armed robberies by giving money away to anybody who wants it. Nice idea, but what's the cost?

When you find a way to let everybody live without working, then allowing everybody to abuse whatever substances they want might work for some people, so let's take that on as a two-pronged approach to solving the war on drugs. Let's hear your plan.

December 10, 2009 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So, let me see if I've got this straight. We as a society don't have the resources to support millions of these abusers but we've got the resources to chase these people allover the place and house them in a jail? We can send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan and bail-out every failed institution that asks nice enough but we can't possibly support abusers(whatever the hell that means in the first place)? What's the cost there aich? Maybe if our government would worry more about un-f#c/<ing our economy, our job market and our housing market more than they worry about little Johnny burning down a Marley after work, this country wouldn't be in the position that it's in today.

And as far as a plan for eliminating the necessity for work, I haven't come up with anything yet. However, I "highly" doubt that the best way to do things is to form up some sort of Salem witch-hunt to seek out the stoners for eradication/imprisonment to the tune of over 14 billion annually. In my mind, there are better uses for 14 billion dollars than seeking out stoners. Usually, when a program fails to perform, they don't continue to boost funding for it. The drug war has nothing but a loosing track record and the continuation of funding for it is no better than bailing out the failing banks or auto industry. It is a gross mismanagement of tax-payer dollars and it's number of supporters is dwindling rapidly. I'm still waiting to hear how all of that waste is justified before I conclude a plan for "solving" the drug war.

On a little bit of a weird tangent, this guy has some crazy concepts about what future life could be like. I'm not saying that I've bought into all of his stuff but it's extremely interesting nonetheless.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

December 10, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

If you want to see how this stuff works out in real life, go research the history of Columbia, Maryland. Columbia was designed to incorporate many of the same concepts.

In the end, the rental housing in Columbia became a haven for welfare cases from inner-city Baltimore who were able to walk to the homes of affluent middle-class people to rob them during the day while the owners were at work. Some residents of the rental housing found it necessary to step over the bodies of stoned and drugged squatters in order to come and go from their apartments.

A place where drug laws were not rigidly enforced provides a perfect analog to what would happen if drugs were legalized for the general public. Easy availability of recreational drugs and immunity from prosecution are not incentives to be productive and responsible members of society. The drugs remove the need to care about anything but getting high, and so that's all that some people will ever do so long as they can get enough drugs to make up for lack of food, clothing and shelter.

Eventually, the abusers become a burden on the rest of society, and so what's the difference between putting them in low-risk jails for abusers versus paying to house and feed them out in society?

Sorry to break it to you mmj (JofC) but the cops are not out chasing down pot users. The pot users who are going to jail are doing other things to draw attention to themselves in 99.9% of the cases (speeding and other traffic offenses, trafficking, theft, robbery, etc.). The rest are situations where the cops stumble onto something by pure chance.

December 11, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It's no secret that there's people out there, as there always will be, that abuse drugs and let drugs ruin their lives. It's also no secret that marijuana is nowhere near as detrimental to people that "abuse" it than any other drug out there. The argument I present is that it would be better to give the people the choice of legally pursuing a safer alternative to the hardcore drugs out there. Hell, marijuana is safer than alcohol and tobacco but somehow it's still illegal for non-medical users.
And for those that prescribe to such things, I think Jesus was the Jesus of Cannabis.

December 11, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Just happened upon this article after I posted the last one.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/breaking-...

December 11, 2009 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Yeah, kinda hard to argue against giving people a safer alternative to the s#!t out there that can actually kill them. Have fun though. Let's see what epic BS you can come up with to shoot it down.

December 13, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Why does anybody need a safer alternative to illegal drugs?

What makes you think they would switch to pot from anything else?

Look at Tiger Woods. A beautiful 24 year old blonde Swedish wife, two kids, and $90,000,000 per year income. Wouldn't you think that a beautiful blonde Swedish wife, world-wide fame and $90,000,000 a year would be a "safe alternative" to dating hookers, porn stars and who knows what else will come out?

Addiction and abuse are not about having a "safe" alternative. Alcohol is a safe alternative if used in moderation, so why isn't that a reason for people to use it instead of smoking illegal marijuana?

The assumption that people need to use mood-altering substances as a way of life is where you are making your error. I'll refer you back to the DSM as discussed above for the definition of mental disorders related to substance abuse.

I've seen autopsy reports on people who drank carbon tetrachloride trying to get high. Sniffing paint thinner and glue are also "legal" ways to kill yourself.

If you go 2 or 3 assumptions down the trail to why it's okay to abuse mood-altering substances in the first place, then your arguments have merit. The problem is that it takes those 2 or 3 reasons which justify drug abuse as something okay to do before you get to the pot argument. Do you really think that, "It's not as bad as everything else" is really a good marketing slogan? You might as well try to trade off deafness and blindness as equal alternatives to each other, when in fact, both are terrible afflictions.

Illegal drug use has been a widespread plague in this country for 30-40 years. 40 years ago, autism was extremely rare. Now it's 1 kid in 100. Ain't it possible that mommy and daddy using drugs is the reason why? Seems like everything else has the potential to harm fetuses or cause genetic damage, so why not marijuana? Do you have any science to prove that it's not at fault? The fact is, nobody knows, but SOMETHING has caused the problem, and drug use is a plausible reason to suspect until science provides complete answers.

December 13, 2009 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

First of all, alcohol is not safer marijuana. You know this, I know this, everyone knows this. When's the last time you "saw an autopsy report" that listed "ingestion of fatal amount of THC" as the cause of death? I'll tell you. Never. That's because it's impossible. Addiction and abuse are much easier subjects to handle when you're dealing with a substance(Cannabis/THC) that has been proven to be less addictive than almost any drug out there, including coffee, nicotine and alcohol. Not to mention, when one "abuses" marijuana they do not run the risk of consuming fatal amounts(beat that dead horse one more time I guess).
Secondly, you're stuffing words in my mouth by claiming that I've been making assumptions about people needing to use mood-altering substances as a way of life. When in the hell have I ever claimed that people need to live in a fog as a way of life? What an idiotic and sad way to live! I'll remind you that I somehow, miraculously, manage to maintain myself above this level uselessness that you ASSUME happens to anyone that touches a joint to their lips. Somehow, every time my stoned a$$ gets on here I can maintain a focal and clear debate that's edgy enough to keep you scrambling to the point where you have to try to pull some lame Tiger Woods reference. Bravo aich. You're brilliant.
Oh, and one last little thing about autism....
http://www.autism.com/ari/editorials/...

December 13, 2009 at 10:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well?

December 15, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich, you're totally missing out on all the great debating going on in the other comment board about dispensaries. This place is engulfed in marijuana debate and I bet it drives you nuts! How 'bout them Californians voting on full legalization in 2010?

Hear that taps playing in the distance yet?

December 16, 2009 at 9:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Having lived in California for about ten years total, the last time being a 7-year stint before I came back here, I know for sure that California is californicating itself into economic collapse with every passing day.

Businesses by the scores left CA for Las Vegas because of California's anti-business social policies. State income tax on individuals is horrendous. Yet, the state is going broke. Legalizing pot and taxing it won't save California, and besides, no state can legalize a substance banned by the federal government. Read the Constitution for the Supremacy Clause.

The taps you hear playing in the distance is for all the poor homeless people who will be out of work, with no benefits to live on at all, because California won't be able to raise the money to pay for anyone to live, much less a bunch of unemployed pot heads.

It's simple human physiology and basic economics that people have to eat to live, and people have to work to eat. There are people in the Philippines living by scrounging through garbage dumps for something to eat. What happens to all the pot smokers when they run out of money, run out of pot, and then sober up enough to realize they're going to starve and there's no job to save them.

Just like AIDS proved that promiscuous sex and IV drug use will eventually result in the creation of a "super bug" that cannot be cured, permissive recreational drug use will eventually lead to poverty and death for lots of people.

One of California's previous acts of genius was to ban construction of new power plants. They decided to buy their electricity from out of state. Then, fuel prices went up, and electricity prices went up, and California utility rates doubled in a month or two. I was there for it. My utility bill for a 1500 sq ft rented house in a mild climate was over $300 per month. I was paying 11% of my income into CA state income tax at the time, making less than $70,000 a year. The CA state income tax was enough to let me itemize deductions on my federal tax returns. That's nuts.

Whenever any government makes it attractive for low/no-income people to move in, they do. New York City was that way, and look where it got them. There will always be a few wealthy people who can handle the tax burden; who cares if you pay $1,000,000 in taxes if you take home $2,000,000? There are only a few people like that compared to everybody else, so when you overtax the middle class, they leave and you create California's fiscal crisis. Duh.

So, yeah, let's all move to California. You first.

December 17, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
If no state can do what California is going to do, why isn't Big Brother stepping in and putting California in time-out or something? Let's put some UN sanctions on 'em or something like that! That'll teach 'em!
And who the hell wants to move to California when the legalization wave will hit our own state in under 5 years? Mark my words, it'll happen. Old, antiquated and ill-conceived points of view, like yours aich, will become a thing of the past and life will move on as normal. The entirety of society will not collectively melt into their couches and fade into non-existence. The economy will not suddenly get any worse than it already is and the crime rate will not skyrocket. There will be no crazed riots and there will not be any pillaging. Cannabis users, of all the people on the planet, will not suddenly run out of food or become distended messes of malnutrition.
You're living in a fantasy land aich. You're ignoring thousands of years of world history and have somehow fooled yourself into believing that society will crumble if the current laws are repealed. No such thing will happen but if you'd like to keep telling yourself all of these horrible things, maybe you could keep the fear-mongering to yourself too.

December 18, 2009 at 1:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And what gives aich? Any particular reason you're avoiding the other canna-discussions?

December 18, 2009 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

I think the whole subject is really pitiful.

If there were people on here raving about Jesus the way you're all raving about pot, they'd be called lunatics.

I'm a lot more interested in the final water report that proved I was right about the SB700 development putting tens of millions of dollars in financial burden on the City to improve the water and waste treatment capacity. It was much worse than I thought; about twice as bad.

Now, why couldn't everybody else around here read the annexation agreement and reach the same conclusions?

Too busy seeking mood alteration, perhaps . . . .?

I think in 5 years people around here will have discovered that getting high and doing a job pays off much less than doing a really good job and beating out the competition. You don't have to sit on the couch. Just don't try as hard as somebody else, and they'll win every time.

The federal government has many ways of smacking down states that violate federal law. Withholding funds for law enforcement, highways, education, etc. Just because many Californians are unrealistic and ignorant of the consequences of their actions, that doesn't mean having a majority makes them right. That's one of the reasons that our founding fathers set up a representative form of government designed to prevent populous states from imposing their selfish will on the rest of the country. They were a bunch of pretty wise old white guys.

December 19, 2009 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

There are some good ones in the crowd, but there are a lot of lunatics in the Jesus crowd. Secondly, Jesus is allowed to be worshiped in all 50 states. Not the same thing.

And as far as the annexation thing goes, great job aich! Nice prediction. You're cool and awesome. As for why I didn't read the annex agreement, I simply don't have enough "give a damn." Everyone picks their own battles and that is one that doesn't interest me all that much.
My battles, despite what you'd have everyone believe, don't consist of an endless search for meds that consumes my existence. My meds are fairly easy to find around this town and it usually never takes up more than an hour.

California....what a state! Aich, when they went all medical on marijuana back in '96, how "punishment" was doled out by Big Brother?
And a good majority of all of those "pretty wise old white guys" grew cannabis. Pretty smart is right.

December 19, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich, there you go again blaming all problems foreign, local, and national on American insistence on getting high.

You are simply off base here. Either the drug use problem is so big that it infests both houses of congress, all 50 state legislaturs and the Steamboat City Council, or there is really no huge problem at all Which is it?

You have accused everyone east of Saint Louis of being stoned. You have accused everyone that approves of the Steamboat 700 project of "seeking mood alteration". You have accused me of being stoned becuase of my opinions.

It seems to me that you just take the out of the box solution "you must be high" to answer all difficulties and disagreements in your life. What is up with that?

Not everyone in your life is high, some of them are just plain dumb, and some of them just don't like you. Your habit of accusing everyone that disagrees with you of being high is getting old and I for one take offense.

December 19, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

You asked "how?" I told you "how." Back during the gas crisis of the 70s, the federal government withheld highway funds from states that did not adopt the 55mph speed limit.

Trump,

Sorry fella, but you're starting to sound like white noise. I'll agree that stoned and dumb are equivalent, and what I said was that every fast food joint from St. Louis going east on I-70 was suffering from help that was obviously stoned. Maybe they are just dumb. Either way, they're mostly places to avoid.

You can choose to be naive, high, or stupid. It's a free country.

I've noticed recently that the people in the shops and restaurants seem to be very sharp and helpful. Maybe the slow economy has put the best workers into jobs, and everybody else is still wondering what happened.

We've got a few around who seem to be on Hawaiian Time (that's their term for it, not mine), but not like in the past.

Oh, hey, mmj, yeah, I can see how you can find pot easily. Dress like a homeless person, don't shave, and hang around on the street, and I'm sure you can buy pot pretty easily. I base that on the number of people I've seen on Lincoln Ave in the past few days who my step son says, "Stink like reefer." It's great to have him and his 1.61 GPA home from college in another state (this was his first semester). He finally understands what his mother and I have been telling him. Really. Now he "gets" it. Gotta give him credit for understanding that HE is the one who screwed up. That puts him way ahead of the pot heads out on the street.

I guess I must look like a cop, because those guys sure do flinch when I walk by. One look from me, and a crowd busts up and walks away like somebody asked them to donate to a good cause. Must suck to live that way.

None of us know what tomorrow is going to bring, but we all have a chance to prepare for it today. The only question is whether or not you'll choose to do so.

I do think I've figured out one thing, though. This town is not too tough on drug abusers. We don't see a lot of people getting rolled when they're high out on the street. It's a very safe place to fritter your life away as long as you can afford it.

December 20, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Actually aich, you did not answer my question. Maybe you should read things over a little more thoroughly before you turn on the ol' BS valve. My question was, are you paying attention, what was the Federal Government's punitive response to the legalization of medical marijuana, in California back in 1996? You answered me with speed limits. I bet you play tic-tac-toe with preschoolers to stroke your ego. Must suck to live that way.
And by the way, there are no homeless bums that get cannabis from the same place(s) I do. And it sounds like your kid knows a little bit more about "reefer" than you think.
You sound really "scary" and all, but you'd have a hell of a time scaring away me or any of my friends. That's the great thing about having a medical marijuana card in this state is that it's tied to our state constitution, which makes access to medical marijuana a right for Coloradans.
I guess I'm going to go prepare for my pain-free day tomorrow and go get some more meds.

December 20, 2009 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

You have a license to fry your freaking brain. Good hunting.

The federal government chooses its battles according to the whims of the current administration. Whether they did anything about CA's mm situation in 1996 or not, they could do it anytime they please by holding back federal funding for any number of state programs. why give money for education when everybody's screwed up on pot, for instance?

I don't look scary at all. I'm simply used to looking people in the eye and greeting them as I pass. Dopers tend to be paranoid, and the signs are obvious.

Oh, yeah, the polyp knows all about reefer. I just don't think he's smoking it, because he has left too many parties and come home early when it was brought out. At least he inherited his mother's common sense.

You go on and have a good time while it lasts. Between the two of us, you're the only one who's going to suffer from it in the long run, if anyone..

December 21, 2009 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

If you haven't noticed from our "conversations" so far, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with my brain. But, you being you, I guess I'm wrong just because I'm on this side of the fence. You seem to enjoy a position above the fence, where you can bitch and moan all you want but as soon as it's legal you're going to get a little garden started for yourself.
You never acknowledge an fault in any of your arguments. Instead of correcting yourself and saying, "Oh, my bad. I misread the question. The Federal Government did absolutely nothing when California legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes," you come at me with this, "You better watch it, because the government could end it at any time and could punish the hell out of the whole state for some pot use," HORSES#!T!!!
You seem to have some grand illusion that, somehow, the impending reversal/repeal of the prohibition of marijuana will be slowed down or stopped. The injustice of the marijuana prohibition has been perpetrated on Americans for over 70 years. Unfortunately, now that it's coming to an end, there are a lot of ignorant people freaking out because they just don't know anything about it other than the horror stories given to them by their government. Mind you the whole "brain frying" thing came from a study where they gassed monkeys with marijuana smoke until they suffocated. Yeah, marijuana smoke will fry your brain after 30-40 minutes of breathing nothing but marijuana smoke. Your brain tends to go dead after not having oxygen for a while. Fortunately for me and millions of others, this is not the normal procedure for medicating. Most medicating sessions consist of a handful of hits spread out over the course of 10-30 minutes, depending on a number of factors.
And for your information, there is no suffering from marijuana. In fact, studies have shown that potheads live longer than non-potheads due to reduced amounts of stress. Stress is a killer ya know.

December 21, 2009 at 8:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Did Santa bring you any valid points for Christmas aich?

December 25, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The ability to ramble on in prose when undistracted by pressing responsibilities does not mean your brain is okay.

Was Hitler's brain okay? How about Vincent Van Gogh? How about Charles Manson?

Ted Bundy?

How would you know you're okay, or impaired, without a valid reference point?

I spent Christmas Eve and then Christmas day with members of our two extended families and we all had a wonderful time. Nobody smoked any marijuana. A few people had a drink or two, but nobody got drunk. No fights. No scenes.

Nobody seemed to miss smoking pot.

The subject never even came up.

When was the last time you had a day like that?

Your dream of an "impending" legalization of marijuana for everyone may come true some day, but for most of the people in this country who do the work of making America happen, it will just be another day. Anyone whose life changes drastically due to legalized pot really didn't have much of a life in the first place.

December 25, 2009 at 10:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hereandthere (anonymous) says...

So Merry Christmas, a aich, (number 1 Ding Dong). So you had a few drinks and and didn't get dunk. Good for you. We are all so proud of you. Now go on and continue in your bigoted ways. At my house nobody drank alcohol, nobody seemed to miss using your drug. Subject never came up. When was the last time you had a day like that?

Glug, Glug, a aich.

December 26, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Was George Washington ok in the brain? How about Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin? Any of those guys "ok" in your book? After all, you kinda need a screw or two to be loose in order to take on the British Empire at the time, right?

I'm glad you had such a great holiday and that everything went so swimmingly. As for me and my holiday, what is your mental picture of mine? Some sort of marijuana-inspired rage-fest that lays waste to everything in it's path? Or is it more like the immobile blob that perma-melted into a couch somewhere, constituting hand-feeding or something like that? Well, if you're interested in the truth(which I highly doubt) about my holiday, it started early on Christmas Eve day. I was up before the sun, ready to push all of our fresh snow around. After a half day of snow relocating(some call it snow plowing), I then had to make the trip to Denver. I was medicated as soon as I got up and stayed that way until I went to go dream of sugar plums dancing through my head. I miraculously managed to not kill anyone all day and spent the entire day pain-free.
I never entered into any altercations or started any "scenes," but the subject of marijuana did come up. The cover of the "Westword" that is currently available has a Charlie Brown scene that replaced his typical "Charlie Brown Christmas Tree" with a tree that truly brings good tidings to all. That's right, Charlie Brown is on the cover of "Westword" with a cannabis plant. Someone had to talk about it.
And as far as having a day when I don't talk about marijuana, or use marijuana, the last time I was marijuana-free was in the Navy. Their zero-tolerance policy can be ubber-detrimental to someone who uses marijuana at the same time they are trying to have a military career. So, I waited. I had my marijuana-free time and the amount of pain that was in my back was never vanquished by any military doc. It was misery. I became such a miserable a-hole because of all the pain that I was given a nickname. Instead of being addressed by my rank and real name, I became known as Petty Officer Anger-son. I thought it was kinda funny, at first. Then I started to put some serious contemplation into it and I decided that it was actually sad that I had become something other than who I really am because of pain. Sure, I could of gotten loaded up on pharmaceuticals from any number of corpsman(Navy-speak for medical staff). I could have taken the socially acceptable route of eliminating my pain with man-made chemical cocktails but I chose instead to suffer through it. Consequently, my performance, physical shape and mental aptitude suffered greatly. Upon being honorably discharged and subsequently resuming my self-medication routine with marijuana, I was able to shed over 70lbs of excess weight and became a remarkably nice guy again.

cont'd......

December 26, 2009 at 9:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Seems to me that the only thing I'm missing out on by being a daily user of marijuana, is a butt-load of pain that turns me into a Hulk-esque whirlwind of fury and anger. Logically, the pain-induced anger is more debilitating than any amount of high-quality medicine that I regularly enjoy.

So last, but certainly not least, let's look at the conclusion to your most recent post aich.

"Your dream of an "impending" legalization of marijuana for everyone may come true some day, but for most of the people in this country who do the work of making America happen, it will just be another day. Anyone whose life changes drastically due to legalized pot really didn't have much of a life in the first place."

First of all, the dream of RE-legalization that I share with half of the rest of the country, the one that includes stopping the seemingly endless waste that is incurred by a futile war against marijuana, will and is coming true. Mark my words. And your "someday" might be a little closer than you think.
Secondly, that "someday" will not be just another day, especially for those that "make America happen." A good majority of the blue-collar folk that keep America's wheels greased have their own wheels greased by something that they grow on their own or that one of their neighbors grows. I come from this background and know many of these people personally.
Lastly, the millions, if not billions, of lives that will be affected by the RE-legalization of cannabis would probably argue that their lives are not as worthless as you'd love to think. RE-legalizing cannabis will revolutionize America and subsequently the entire world. The industrial opportunities that are presented by industrial hemp are seemingly infinite, extremely renewable and relatively cheap. I don't think I'm the only one that sees the advantages of opening up thousands of new avenues in American industry. In case you haven't noticed, "Made In The USA" has become something that appears less on our consumer products and more in our history books. The job market being the way it is, there's at least 10%-15% of the job force that would jump at any opportunity to work with hemp in some capacity. It seems to me like cannabis might just give their lives a little more worth, even if just monetarily.

December 26, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Great article, for those that are interested:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001...

December 26, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

hereandthere,

Had one of those yesterday. I have about 300 of them a year.

mmj,

Thanks for filling in the blanks in your story.

I am truly sorry that you suffered as you did in the Navy. Following my own back injury (a helicopter crash that killed two and left one permanently disabled) I was given the choice of learning to live with the pain and continuing to fly or becoming fat and useless taking prescription medications. I went to the gym and rehabilitated myself in the belief that I would either get better or hurt myself badly enough that they would have to do something about it.

I learned that listening to doctors who told me to avoid strain and take pain medication didn't know what they were talking about. Disabled on active duty is not something the Navy wanted to deal with 20 years ago. "Shut up and do your job or get out" was the philosophy at that time. They had no sympathy for individual problems, and they were not set up to deal with it. So, I took matters into my own hands, and guess what?

I got better.

Professional athletes go through a lot of pain during rehabilitation from musculo-skeletal injuries. It's necessary to build muscle around injured tissues in order to support them and return to the game. Living with pain is part of the process.

Hey, did you ever stop to consider that my point of view may be tempered by the fact that I deal with pain, numbness, limited mobility and the constant fatigue caused by an injury for which the government is 100% liable? I might be a nicer fella if that had not happened, but I'm just sorta glad to be alive to enjoy my wife, family, pets, job and hobbies.

I went into the service knowing that many who went before me died as a result of doing their duty. The only thing I'd change if I could go back would be to stay in longer. Dealing with whiners who never so much as stood a fire watch in boot camp is even more tiring than living with pain.

I am proud of what I did for this country, and of the seven men I knew personally who died in "training accidents" involving Navy aircraft. My life would have been easier if I had stayed at home and dealt with the problems of living in suburbia, but I'd have missed a lot of experiences I treasure.

Nobody is going to get out of this alive. Even marijuana smokers are going to die one day, but if that's how people want to spend their lives in the meantime, hey, it's their life. I guess they have their reasons, but I feel sorry what they're missing.

If things keep going the way you expect them to, then you'd better hope the Chinese, Indians and Pakistanis will tolerate marijuana, because they'll be making the decisions and the dope-smoking white boys will be taking the orders. They'll take over while the rest of you are getting high.

December 28, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

aich-
No one other than current or former military can quite understand or appreciate the value of the lives that have been taken in our wars. Both of us sharing that common denominator, we can both appreciate how valuable each and every drop of American blood truly is.
That being said, I would ask that you refrain from taking a stance of "I'm better than you" on any issue regarding military service or patriotism. I find it pretty disgusting and it almost sickens me that someone of a similar military background would ever think to hold themselves in a higher respect than any one of his brothers. Of coarse, this is a free country and you're welcome to say whatever you'd like but it's a pretty dick-ish move to blindly assert a claim that your military service is of more value than the military service of anyone else.
Everyone's all happy that you rehabilitated yourself while thumbing your nose at medical advise and all, but it seems pretty ignorant to me. Doctors don't always know best but they usually know more about the way your body works than you do. Maybe if you wouldn't have shown such disregard for medical opinion, your point of view wouldn't be so tempered and tainted by your constant pain, numbness, limited mobility and constant fatigue.
In addition, I find it highly ironic, if not hysterical, that you are entangled in this debate with me. You just got done filling in a little bit of your own story and it looks as though you and I share a fairly similar set of physical ailments. As to their relative equality or severity, I cannot speak. But it can't be argued that we don't, at the least, have similar symptoms. What sets us apart is our individual choice of pain-management. You choose to either; 1)drink alcohol(even if just at the rate of 300 drinks a year), 2)take pharmaceuticals, or 3)do nothing other than bear the pain. My choice is the only one that involves living a life free of the pain that I once suffered, while at the same time avoiding all of the pitfalls that are all too often found with man-made alcohol and/or man-made pharmaceuticals.

cont'd...

December 28, 2009 at 9:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

More tomorrow.
But in closing for tonight, I thought I'd share this link. It seemed appropriate since we were on the subject of military service and life in America.
I find myself having a difficult time disagreeing with what's said in the clip. It's worth the watch if you've got a couple minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQfoFz...

December 28, 2009 at 11:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Sports medicine is a valid medical practice. How do you think NFL players come back from devastating shoulder and knee injuries except by doing the very thing that causes pain in order to rebuild the muscles and supporting structures. Muscles and tendons do not get stronger by allowing them to atrophy.

Navy doctors are usually fresh from medical school. A Navy LT in the Medical Corps is one of the least experienced physicians around. Flight surgeons have complained frequently that they don't get to be better doctors by having a patient population that is among the top 15% of specimens in the country. They deal with young, healthy people, and get frustrated about it.

Most physicians will let the patient decide which way to go. If you want to get better, the hard way is usually the only way.

I don't know where you got the idea that I thought my military service was "better" than someone else's. I am humbled by the combat troops who serve voluntarily today. I went in at the very end of Vietnam, and although I didn't know it would be over by the time I finished college and flight training, it was. People who sign up today are going to a shooting war, guaranteed. My comment about "never stood a fire watch in boot camp" was directed at civilians (Dick Cheney and Bill Clinton included) who dare to "lead" the armed forces from a leather chair without ever having gone in harm's way, even in training. People don't know what it's like to have a job they cannot quit, that takes them thousands of miles from home for months at a time.

I never drink alcohol for pain relief. Never. I never combine alcohol with analgesics of any kind. I never take pain meds for my military injuries. I tune it out. It's not that hard for me. I know that becoming dependent on pain meds means that when I do have a reason to take them some day, the minimum doses will work. I've already been through such an episode for an ankle injury. As a matter of fact, I was overmedicated in the emergency room because the docs assumed that everybody who comes in is either alcohol or marijuana/narcotic dependent or abusive, and it took much longer than they expected for me to come around from the effects of the drugs so that I could be released. It even suppressed my respiration and caused my blood oxygen level to go down. Because I was injured in a construction accident (on my own property) they assumed I was a construction worker by trade, and made some wrong assumptions. I guess next time I should put on my coat and tie before I go to the hospital so they don't euthanize me by mistake.

I chose to live with pain because pain meds dulled my mind. They interfered with my studies in graduate school, and made me sleepy at work. I could not take them and fly.

Pain certainly does make physical conditioning more difficult, but physical conditioning is necessary to recover full function and overcome pain. Like you say, it's a choice.

December 29, 2009 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Just to follow up on my last tangent from last night, did you get a chance to watch that clip? I'm not normally the mushy type but that clip kinda got me going.

Thank you for explaining what was meant by your comment. I too have a problem with top military leadership(ie..the president and those near the top of the line of succession) that has no military experience. Hell, the results aren't even guarantee-able when you stick a "vet" in the oval office. One letter is all the proof I need for that, "W." Not that it's some huge revelation or anything, but Bush & Dick really screwed our nation over. I cherish the opportunity to chastise and deride the actions(and lack of actions) of those two a-holes.
The attitude that seemed to be represented in your post, the one that I took offense to, was one of, "My military service, and subsequently my argument, are more valid than yours because of the set of circumstances through which I obtained my injuries." It's no secret that you hold yourself in a much higher regard than anyone who chooses marijuana over alcohol/tobacco/any other drug. So, thank you for clarifying your stance. I'm very familiar with the Navy's liberal use of the term "training accident" and so are many of my old sub buddies. It really is a shame that the government feels the need to lie to us about so much.

I'll get back on topic next....

December 29, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

I do not hold myself in "higher regard" than people who use substances for recreational purposes. I pity them, and all that they are missing, and their families who have to deal with it.

I want people to take personal responsibility for their own support, and for the support of their dependents. If you can do that and stay stoned, you've passed my #1 test.

The other side of the issue is that relationships are negatively impacted by substance abuse, as they are by any kind of abuse or irresponsibility. It's easy to see that parents of kids with drug, academic and behavioral problems suffer as a result of what the kids do. There's no getting around it. The alternative is to compartmentalize and separate emotionally from the problem maker.

There are lots of effed up people and families without adding substance issues.

When a husband or wife alienates a spouse, it either leads to divorce or adultery in most cases, or to emotional isolation in a few. If you expect a spouse to put up with the negative effects of drug/alcohol abuse, financial irresponsibility, personality disorders, etc., you have to expect what happens when they leave you or cheat. It is impossible to have a good relationship with a normally adjusted human being while at the same time abusing drugs/alcohol, being financially irresponsible, or physically abusive, or suffering from emotional/personality disorders. A normally adjusted person cannot tolerate it forever, and will not. The ones who stay in such a relationship are as sick in their own way as the abuser. Co-dependent sets of drug/alcohol/personality problems never make it in the long run. The 50% divorce rate proves it.

About 1/2 the human race is screwed up, and the other half is getting tired of it. That's why we have a 50/50 voter split, with so-called "independents" making the decisions for the rest of us. When you say "everybody" you really mean "your 50%." My 50% feels differently.

In the old days, the rule was, "One hand for yourself; one hand for the ship." Now it's more, "both hands for ME! Let somebody else worry about the ship." We can't go on like that as a society.

Neither one of us is going to change the world, but I think I've learned how to live in it. You're still feeling it out. That could all change tomorrow, and it's happened to me before, overnight, with no warning, when I depended on other people for my welfare based on faith in what they would do and promises they had made. It turns out to be true that actions mean something, while words are cheap. When actions don't match words, stand by. It's not going to get better from there.

I have not had good experiences with people who depend on medication of any kind. This goes from self-medication with alcohol to casual pot use to long-term medication with prescription drugs for both pain and emotional/psychological disorders. I don't have to be a part of it at this time, and given a choice, I won't.

December 29, 2009 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So, that's a no? You didn't get a chance to check out that youtube clip?

December 29, 2009 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I'm not currently in a place where the broadband connection supports u-tube. I'm sorta surprised it supports Steamboat Pilot.com.

December 31, 2009 at 6:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

bummer. Well, if you get a chance to watch it, it's really good.

And on a side note, you're the most judgmental person I've ever debated with. Everyone that uses marijuana is instantly guilty(at least in your book) of horrendous, jail-able offenses that would make the average person squirm a little. In your mind, anyone that uses marijuana is bound for failure and can't possibly have anything positive to contribute to society. Your views are so far skewed from reality that you make blanket statements about people that are nothing more than a sum of your worst nightmares. It kinda sounds like you don't have all that many friends. I could be wrong, but in my experience people that are highly judgmental are usually pretty lonely.

December 31, 2009 at 7:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

This article is so great that I had to post it on all three of the current pot comment boards. Enjoy.

http://www.alternet.org/story/144838/

January 1, 2010 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

It might interest you to know that staying away from people who use drugs has not cost me a single friend. Or a married one, either. I know you don't seem to sense the impairment that goes along with it, but I've learned the signs through the years, and there are lots of "morning after" tell-tales that go along with intoxication. Lapses of memory and concentration are big ones -- things like measuring lumber to frame a rough opening for a door or a window, and applying the 1-1/2" offset in the wrong direction, making the opening too short for the door or window to fit. Seems like a small thing until you've had to tear out 3 or 4 of them and reframe while trying to dry-in a project. It is quite "vexing" to say the least. Having "little accidents" is another. Tripping and falling, spilling paint, etc. Being cranky first thing in the morning is another one. Like, being rude to customers, for example.

I've been out and around town a lot over the holidays, and there are tons of great people in this town. There's also a percentage of folks who seem standoffish, preoccupied and surly. My favorite experience was ordering two Irish coffees "to go" in Gondola Square, and then discovering out on the deck that the bartender had put all the whiskey in one cup. How do you screw up something like that at 2 in the afternoon? I'll let you figure it out . . . .

I do agree that putting users in jail is a waste of time and money, but that's not my call. As I've often stated, I've bailed a lot of them out of jail, but never put one in.

However, anyone who gets popped while driving under the influence should go to jail for it, period. A night in the slammer and probation for a year is the least that anyone should get. That at least keeps them under some kind of supervision and hopefully deters a repeat offense in some people.

I don't sit around having nightmares about losers. I just avoid them when I run across them, because dealing with them seldom brings the desired result.

I've never dated a stripper, but I know people who have, and the story seems to be that the more you find out about them, the worse it gets. Substance abusers are the same way. The behavior you see is just the tip of the iceberg. There's other stuff underneath that you probably don't want to know about. The other thing is that trying to "save" someone from self-destructive behavior is pretty much useless. I've tried it several times and never had any success. The best you get is a period of calm, followed by a relapse when certain stressors arise. That's just how life is.

You can say there's nothing wrong with smoking pot all day long as much as you want to. It's just not true, no matter how many of your friends say it is.

January 4, 2010 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well, seeing as how our differences are insolvent, I guess I'll just keep posting truth for those that are looking for it.

http://patients4medicalmarijuana.word...

January 4, 2010 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

People know the truth.

The marijuana prohibition is a cultural issue. The problem is the culture which abuses marijuana.

If everybody was free to grow and use their own marijuana, nobody could make a living selling it. So what would you all do? Become astrophysicists? Pediatricians? Interpretive dancers? Somebody has to grow food, build roads, etc.

There are cities, counties and even countries which are run by people who don't know what they're doing. They are all poor and corrupt. There's a big crossover between pot users, poverty and corruption.

That's your "truth."

January 5, 2010 at 7:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich,

I finally get it. You mean leaders like Bill Clinton, George Bush and Barrack Obama..

January 5, 2010 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

As you and a number of other prohibitionists have pointed out, having marijuana deemed as something "medicinal" is just a stepping stone towards legalization. You are correct in assuming that the profits from selling marijuana as a "medicine" are not going to be as vast as some are claiming. Given the option of procuring their own marijuana, most marijuana users would jump at the opportunity to grow their own instead of paying street prices for it. I myself am looking to start my own little indoor garden to begin growing, at least some of, my own. As a matter of fact, that was my New Years resolution.
As to your assumption that we're all making a living off cultivating and selling marijuana,,,,ridiculous. Granted, there are some that make their living that way but definitely not most. A lot of us have normal jobs(including me). My guess is that most of those that spend so much on marijuana would begin to become a little more fiscally sound, if it were to be legalized.

And truth. Let's talk truth for a minute. Your truth is that every screwed up city, county or country on the planet(if not the entire Galaxy) WAS screwed up, and IS being screwed up by pot users(which by the way, I'm very proud of you for calling them users and not abusers. You get a gold start aich.) that are impoverishing and corrupting the world, one city/county at a time. Is that correct? Is that what we are to believe is the truth about the matter?
If that is the case, I would love to see the source on your data that blatantly points out "potheads" as the leading cause of corruption and poverty, anywhere. But I'm pretty sure that data doesn't exist. It sounds to me like you're busy spinning the wheels of propaganda. That statement sounded more political than anything. Sounds more like a political party or figure should have been named in that statement, rather than potheads.

Just out of curiosity, do you have nightmares about the "rainbow people?"

January 5, 2010 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

You've got it backwards. Poverty and corruption are not caused by marijuana. Marijuana is just one of the problems that go with the territory.

I don't have nightmares about anything. The Rainbows are what they are, and I wouldn't go to one of their gatherings, or to a Renaissance Fair, or to a political convention. I have nothing in common with anyone who would attend any of those events.

trumpy,

Use your eyes and ears.

Who's the President of Somalia, for example? Do they have a pot problem? Don't know, don't care, but I think their culture speaks for itself.

Hey, here's a good one for you! If Somalia legalized pot, do you think that would stop the piracy? Can't wait to hear the answer to this one.

January 5, 2010 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Listen doofus....no one is saying that legalizing marijuana anywhere will suddenly set the world in order and fix every problem that anyone has ever had.
Maybe you should use your own eyes a little bit more. We're not in Somalia and we're not talking about Somalia. We're talking about our country, our state and our city. And the only "pot problem" that any of those places have is that they are mostly still plagued by the lies of prohibition. Lies like prohibition does more to prevent crime and corruption than legalization. Lies like the best way to fight drug abuse and gang violence is to prohibit something that a lot of people highly desire. We know now, after over 7 decades of failed drug policy and an even less successful war against drugs(but namely marijuana), that there are better ways of doing things. Even law enforcement officials are starting to see this and they're not staying quiet about it either.
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

January 5, 2010 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

No Aich, the problems of piracy in Somalia have absolutely nothing to due with drug laws or lack thereof. Likewise, they have absolutely nothing to due with drug use/abuse in Somalia. I am sure that the residents of that country would trade almost anything for a stable society and regular food/water. When you have nothing to eat, that kind of takes 1st place in your list of priorities.

I personnally think that is is just a little bit ludicrous to compare the problems in Somalia with the conversation about mj laws in the US, but whatever floats your boat. You are kinda like when my kids were teenagers and in trouble. They would throw out every excuse in the book just trying to get something to stick.

At least now you have managed to post several comments in a row without accusing me of being stoned, so maybe some progress is being made.

January 5, 2010 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

And I think that if you both traveled a bit and learned about the neighborhoods in this country which are most plagued by drug abuse, the comparison to Somalia would be pretty close to the truth.

We don't see many problems around here like people being killed in a parking lot by a hit-and-run driver who was never caught, home invasions, armed robberies, stabbings and shootings in domestic situations. We are civilized. Some places are not. Lack of a civilized community is the plague in the cities, counties and countries where drug use goes along with violence and poverty. It's freakin' VOLUNTARY in this day and age. People have the opportunity to get an education and have a decent job and all that stuff, and they reject it on cultural grounds.

A friend who lives near my other home just got his wife a 20-gauge pump shotgun with an 18 inch barrel and pistol grip for Christmas. She wanted it for home defense while he is at work. They live in a country club neighborhood. The problem is that their neighborhood is only a few miles from areas where the highschool dropout rate is 50% and drugs, poverty and violence are a way of life -- VOLUNTARILY!

If drugs are legalized, is that going to suddenly make all those people go to school, give up drugs and raise themselves out of poverty?

I think the truth is that living up here in Camelot where such things don't happen and such situations don't exist has allowed you to be unrealistic with respect to the rest of the country and the true problems. Take away the ability to make a living selling illegal drugs, and the violence and theft will only get worse.

Drugs are not the problem. They're a symptom of the problem. Legalization would be like pouring gasoline on a forest fire to get it over more quickly and avoid paying overtime. It makes no sense unless you're selling the gasoline.

Drug trafficking, at least, provides a way to make the bad guys show their heads so you can pick them off. In other places, cops can go out and make undercover buys that allow them to take the violent offenders off the street. Traffickers rise to the bait -- $. They expose themselves in order to make a deal. Take that away, and you're left with the SWAT team waiting to be called to a kidnapping, or home invasion, or carjacking. The so-called "war on drugs" is a war on CRIME and CRIMINALS who deserve to be off the street and behind bars because we're all safer when they can't get to us. Events more horrid than the Lori Bases murder happen every day all over the country, and they're not being committed by peaceful pot-smoking hippies.

Nobody in government is going to tell you that, but it's at the bottom of the whole issue, and unfortunately all the peaceful pot smokers up here in the Rockies have to live with it. It's VOLUNTARY. Nobody has to live in fear of being arrested for use and simple possession of pot. You can "just say no" and have nothing to worry about.

January 5, 2010 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

"And I think that if you both traveled a bit and learned about the neighborhoods in this country which are most plagued by drug abuse, the comparison to Somalia would be pretty close to the truth"

You continue to make faulty assumptions.. When you make those assumptions based on bad or missing information, you continue to get it wrong.

What in the world makes you think this is the only place I have ever lived? Just like your assumptions about drug use/abuse are based on faulty information, you have made another assumption about me that could not be further from the truth

Comparing Somalia to drug use in the USA is almost as bad as your assertions that:

Dumping baking soda into our streams will help global warming.
That any women who chose to have an abortion could never be a good mother.
Everyone East of Saint Louis is stoned becuase you received bad service.
That you making progress on the Grand Theory of Unification.

Yes, you have written all of these things and you continue to amaze with your faulty assumptions and lack of intellect.

January 5, 2010 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

And you continue to deny the obvious, because you can't handle the truth.

Have you ever heard the term, "decoding deficit?" That refers to a person's inability to extract information and make associations leading to a logical or inferred conclusion. Maybe you have one of those. Like, if Goofy is a dog, and Pluto is a dog, why can Goofy talk and why does he wear clothes while Pluto does neither. The answer, of course, is that they are cartoon characters made up to be the way they are, and there is no logical reason for the differences.

For example, my comment about telling all the kids to take the box of baking soda out of the refrigerator and dump it into the Yampa to reduce the acidity of the oceans was A JOKE! If you're just now figuring that out, we really don't have any basis at all for further communication.

The Grand Unification Theory comment was true in that I am working on it, but I don't claim to have made any progress. You made that part up. If I do, make progress, you'll know it, because the first thing I'll do is take you back in time about 12 hours to give you more time to think before you communicate.

So, good luck with your l"egalization of everything " program. Since hemp and cannabis probably won't be legal for the general public by April, I'll be planting a big garden in 2010 and raising some animals for food, just in case your ideas don't work out.

January 6, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

http://patients4medicalmarijuana.word...

January 9, 2010 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

A substance found in pomegranates has been found to prevent breast cancer cells from dividing.

Wouldn't it be a shame if something already legal also prevented cancer?

January 9, 2010 at 10:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So it's not a shame to maintain the illegality of something that's been proven to cure cancer? WTF kind of logic is that?!

January 9, 2010 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Again, the decoding deficit has struck.

The doctor claims that marijuana does not cause lung cancer, and might provide a protective effect for VERY HEAVY users.

There was no claim that marijuana cures lung cancer.

Do you suggest that everybody in the country should become a complete pot head to prevent lung cancer?

The place you're on the wrong track is grasping at every straw to find a benefit for marijuana use. You might as well campaign for everybody to drink a six pack before driving a car. The harm done to intellect and productivity is the issue, and always has been the issue. Chronic intoxication with any substance is an affliction that needs to be treated, not a cause to champion.

January 9, 2010 at 5:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Again, failure to research has struck.

Cannabis has been known to fight cancer for a long time dude. All you have to do is look it up. But since you seem to inept at looking s#!t up on your own;

http://www.phoenixtears.ca/
This guy makes an essential oil, from the cannabis plant, that destroys skin cancers in a matter of weeks.

http://www.greenpassion.org/f11/grann...
This one you have to go down to the section on cancer(alphabetical order) and go click happy on whatever type of cancer you're interested in.

And where the hell do you get that I've said everyone needs to be stoned all of the time? I would love to hear you quote me advocating that everyone be constantly high. It doesn't sound like all that bad of an idea but I've never said that on here.

Oh, and here's to your theory that cannabis impairs intellect.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/d...

I can't speak for everyone, but I do know for a fact that my daily regiment of meds keeps me sharp as a frickin' tack and affords me enough freedom from my pain that I can go out and be active. It doesn't turn me into a bumbling idiot with strings of drool hanging from the corners of my mouth and it doesn't melt me into my furniture. In my experience, the benefits that I experience with cannabis are not all that different from a great number of people that likewise choose to medicate with cannabis.
Your entire argument revolves around antiquated drug propaganda and fear of a bunch of dopers storming elementary school playgrounds across the nation to pedal their dope. Your argument(s) are simply not based in reality. You OBVIOUSLY do NOT personally know any open, daily tokers. Your assumptions are wild flights of fancy and most of what you're saying sounds like some big anti-drug speech that a father is supposed to give to his kids. I wouldn't be surprised if you gloated to your family about how dumb you think you make all us stoners look on here. I bet you think you're some bright lighthouse of truth and a beacon of hope & knowledge but, for your information, your opinion(s) garner zero respect and even less value in the context of a debate.

January 9, 2010 at 8:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh, and one more nifty little link I was able to drudge up. I guess in some places, it really is kid tested and mother approved.

http://patients4medicalmarijuana.word...

January 9, 2010 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And as for grasping at straws, I'm the the one reaching out with RIDICULOUS assumptions about every, single person that gets on here in support of ending the prohibition of marijuana. You can't stand the thought that a pot user just might be as intelligent, if not more intelligent than someone who doesn't use pot. You can't bear the idea that a daily pot user might be as active, if not more active than someone who doesn't use it daily. Yet, these things are true. Your inability to deal with the truth is mostly funny but kinda sad, in a way.

January 9, 2010 at 8:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

There are countless instances which prove without a doubt that people who are under the influence of mind-altering and intoxicating substances are at risk of injury when performing dangerous tasks. Risk of injury to others goes right along with it.

It's up to each of us to make the tradeoffs that matter in our lives. People who choose pot or any other substance as a crutch to get through life will never be as competitive as someone who is equal in every other way.

A friend who used to work in the commercial fishing industry told me a while back that any time there was an accident on board, urine samples were taken immediately, and anyone who had been using drugs was ineligible for insurance compensation. That's where 'the man' is always going to get you in the end.

People who get high or get drunk every day have a problem, and the ones who recover always admit it. The thing is, they seldom make the decision to recover until they get into trouble some other way.

Haven't you seen the commercials on TV where lawyers are trolling for clients that have been injured by prescription drugs? Imagine what a field day they will have if pot is legalized and produced commercially. That's where the real money from pot will be found -- in legal fees.

The first time an innocent person is injured in an accident with a medical marijuana user, the lawyers will find the supplier (the dispensary) and go after them for a share of the damages. The law won't protect anyone from this, because DWAI is not allowed by the terms of the medical marijuana license. Dispensaries which sell pot claiming high potency will be on the hook, because it will be easy to claim that the user was not made aware of the risks of high-potency medical marijuana. As an unregulated substance with no dosage controls in place, this is a perfect area for legal exploitation.

Nobody can do business very long without liability insurance coverage. Welcome to America; here's your sign.

Go read "The World According to Garp" and pay special attention to the "Helen Jamesians." The Helen Jamesians were a group of women who had their tongues cut out in sympathy for Helen James, who was raped and had her tongue cut out to stop her from talking about it. Your marijuana cult is pretty much the same kind of movement. Of course YOU don't see anything wrong with it. It's still a stupid idea.

January 10, 2010 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

Aich,

What makes you think the dispenseries are operating without liability coverage? Do you actually kinow anything along these lines or are you just making assumptions again?

I can see your points about liability, but the lawyers do not go after Jack Daniels, The do not go after City Market Liqours, and only rarely do they go after bartenders or drinking establishments. Only when they can prove that the customer was overserved and the bar/bartender knew or should have known. I think you are on thin ice with this line of thought, and the 10 year history in just Colorado and California seems to indicate that the lawyers do not agree with you.

January 10, 2010 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

After looking it up, there is a company in (guess where?) California offering liability insurance to marijuana dispensaries.

http://www.sacbee.com/business/story/...

This should open up the field for lawsuits since there will be someone involved with enough money for plaintiffs and their lawyers to justify going after.

January 11, 2010 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So, now there are 14 medical marijuana states. Freedom to medicate with marijuana is currently legal in New Jersey.

January 12, 2010 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Skifreelivelove (anonymous) says...

Go see the wailers tonight and legalize it!

January 14, 2010 at 4:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Here it is one last time, for those that missed it on the other comment boards...

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/...

January 17, 2010 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

If only we could get ALL law enforcement involved in this:

http://current.com/items/91999417_pol...

January 27, 2010 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

How 'bout it aich? You done?

January 29, 2010 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The plant has definitely got you by the b@!!$. I hope you'll be very happy together.

January 30, 2010 at 10:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Well, at least my government doesn't have me by the brain. Hope you enjoy being just another one of Uncle Sam's good little sheeple.

January 30, 2010 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And it's pretty easy to find negative things to say about something when ALL of your research is devoted to avoiding study into the benefits of it.
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/01/...

January 30, 2010 at 5:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Some people in India claim that drinking your own urine has the same benefits.

I'll "pass" on that one too.

February 1, 2010 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Yeah and India is also coming out with a drink made from cow's urine. So the hell what?
Is that really all you have left to offer to this comment board?
And I don't think that the pee-drinkers have ANY scientists that support their claims. Maybe you could prove me wrong on that one though aich.

February 1, 2010 at 8:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Yeah, it really is.

"Scientist" and "preacher" and "doctor" are all titles used by people who lie for a profit. None of it changes the fundamental truths.

Drug abusers are losers. People who are dependent on pot or any other intoxicating or mind-altering substance are to be pitied, even if it is for medical purposes. It's really nothing to be proud of, but "socialization" of aberrant behavior has worked for other groups, so maybe it will work for you, too.

February 2, 2010 at 7:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Man you're cool!!

February 2, 2010 at 7:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

The term is "cold." It refers to being realistic in the face of an unpopular fact.

February 3, 2010 at 10:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And what "fact" might that be?

February 3, 2010 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Drug users are losers, even when they have no choice. If you require mind altering substances to get through the day, even if it's for bona-fide medical reasons, it's still a condition to be pitied.

I've never known a single family member who bragged about their relative's use of drugs or alcohol, even when it was for relief of acute pain. The people stuck with the burden of helping a family member through an illness may be grateful for the relief offered by drugs, but they'll all tell you it makes the person different, and less than they were before.

February 4, 2010 at 7:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

I warned you MMJ. 2x4 with the brains of an Oak Tree,

February 4, 2010 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
You speak like you actually know some of these people. We all know this is bull$#!+ and you're just on another one of your story modes.
And how about this one? You got the set on ya to tell this guy that he can't practice his religion?
http://www.9news.com/news/article.asp...

Trump-
I'm a product of the construction industry and I've spent my fair share of time around dense objects. Intellectually, aich is no worse to handle than a whole sack of hammers.

February 4, 2010 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
If I had no prior knowledge of how completely ludicrous and antiquated your thought process is, I would almost be able to find offense with the whole "users are losers" thing. Many of our founding forefathers used cannabis and I'm pretty sure that our flag(which was originally constructed of hemp) wouldn't look the way it does today if they were such huge losers.

February 4, 2010 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Oh, I know them. Grandfathers who took pain meds while dying of lung cancer. An ex spouse on medication for an anxiety disorder. The daughter of a friend who needed anxiety medication after being attacked on campus. Cousins on pot and meth. A mother-in-law undergoing chemo. I know them, alright.

I even know myself, when taking vicodin for a dislocated joint. My wife reminds me often of how it made me a different person. We're both glad that's over.

Even you admitted that pain made you act hostile towards others. If pain can make you hostile and irritated, then why assume that something that masks the pain wouldn't also have an effect.

Your little insults mean nothing, coming from an habitual user. If the stuff did not change your perceptions of physical reality (like perception of pain) it wouldn't work for pain relief. If it relieves pain, then it's likely to change other things about the way you perceive the world around you, and how you act.

Even aspirin affects physical perceptions. Allergy pills. Lots of stuff alters sensation and perception.

So, just go smoke your dope and have a nice life. You've got all the answers, so why do you need my approval?

February 4, 2010 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

First of all, your approval can go find a dark, moist place to curl up and die.
Secondly, you're not gonna take a stab at the religion thing?

February 4, 2010 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

It's bull$#!+, just like all the rest. Get a life.

February 6, 2010 at 7:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So you're telling me that he doesn't have the first amendment right to practice his own religion?
And I'm the one that needs to get a life?!? What the hell kind of America do you live in where only a select few religions are valid and/or worthy of acknowledgment?
Sounds to me like you don't have much of an argument left. Your ignorance and bias is almost dumbfounding and you haven't made a valid point in eons. Why don't you try being a real human being and form your own opinions/ideals instead of just letting your government hand them to you?

February 6, 2010 at 8:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Or maybe you're just scared of how much momentum the whole issue is gaining? You wouldn't be the only one. Apparently, youtube is a bit worried about it too.

http://blog.mpp.org/tax-and-regulate/...

February 6, 2010 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Here's my opinion.

Chronic intoxication with any substance for any reason is stupid. Sometimes it's a tradeoff due to other medical conditions, but it doesn't make anyone more fun to be around.

I don't like being around drunks, stoners or meth heads. They all annoy me with their altered mental states. Even if pot was legal, I wouldn't want to be around people who use it.

I don't care if everybody else in the United States votes for it and uses it. I don't have any medical condition that would benefit from it, and I don't have any desire to use it.

You know how when you're a dude and you like chicks and you're not interested in other dudes? Or, maybe, how when you're a dude and you don't like chicks and you're interested in other dudes. Pick the one that applies to you. The one that you're not attracted to? That's how I feel about pot. Just not interested in it. Not interested in getting drunk either.

So, really, I don't CARE what the rest of you do. You might as well be arguing over who's better, Mickey Mouse or Mighty Mouse. I think you're really working hard to do something that turns out to be childish and dumb.

People who are not impaired by substance abuse will always win over those who are when it comes to business, jobs, advancement, etc. It's your choice, so good luck.

February 6, 2010 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

...propaganda, propaganda and more propaganda...
If you danced around that question any longer, I would've had to change the song.
The question was about religion and the right to freely practice a given religion in this country.
I'll put it another way. Did you serve your country to protect the rights of just some Americans? I don't think so.

February 6, 2010 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Here's an even better answer. I served my country to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Nowhere in my oath did it say anything about protecting anybody except the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The Constitution gives power to Congress to regulate interstate trade.

Congress has declared marijuana to be a harmful substance which presents a significant risk of interstate trafficking, and has declared it illegal for all purposes except government sanctioned research as provided by Congress.

The Constitution provides means to redress grievances against the Government, and so far the pro-marijuana crowd has not prevailed.

You will find that certain hallucinogenic substances are allowed for religious purposes on Indian reservations, which are sovereign nations located inside the borders of the United States.

So, tell this guy to move to the "rez" and stop whining.

Was sacramental wine banned during prohibition? That would be interesting to know, but I'm not interested enough to look it up.

The only thing I know for sure is that people are searching for loopholes to let them get high on pot, and if religion works for that, then you can expect to see the same thing tried for pedophiles and car thieves and all other law breakers who would declare that they are doing something unlawful for "religious" purposes. I'd join the church of "putting lazy bums out on the ice to be eaten by polar bears" in a red-hot second.

February 7, 2010 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh...ok. Now it's all clear.

So, the constitution that you swore to defend....did it happen to have a first amendment in it?
And then you go from constitution to...congress? Wow, there's a jump.
And there you go looping cannabis users in with kids rapers and cleptos...why am I not surprised? And tell me, how is my pot-smoking hurting a single person?
FYI...sacramental wine was an exception to the prohibition rule...I guess the church is separate.

Wow....this is fun. You're not even trying.

February 7, 2010 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

You were US military right?

February 7, 2010 at 7:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I'm not getting into the business of debating something pointless with you.

We have a representative form of government. Your representatives have not voted to legalize pot. That's your problem.

If your representatives are not adequately administering the country in accordance with the Constitution, contact them and complain. Vote them out. Your alternative is an armed uprising against the government with the arms you are authorized "to bear" by the Second Amendment. Willing to fight a civil war over pot? Good luck getting anybody to go along with that one.

You see, friend, our Constitution has not been protected down through the years and as a result, our rights have been eroded. Would it surprise you to know that you are not guaranteed to be protected from federal crimes? Would it surprise you to know that the Department of Justice does not investigate crimes that don't involve violence or widespread offenses against favored special interest groups? I'm out $15,000 as a result of violations of federal law by the Colorado courts. The FBI and DoJ don't care. It's not enough money. Nobody threatened me with physical violence. I'm supposed to spend my own money to sue felons instead. My neighbors and I are out a couple of hundred thousand dollars we shouldn't have paid to our HOA because they haven't followed the law, and nobody cares because we're "rich" white people living in ski country.

So, your little pot project here is a tiny drop in the national bucket without enough popular support to carry it through so far. You need votes and supporters, so go out and work to get it on the national ballot in 2012 and let's see what happens.

February 8, 2010 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Ohhhh...
Now I got it. So, the debate should only be perpetuated if it's going your way? You'll fight for the rights of a christian but a someone who uses cannabis as holy sacrament can go fly a kite huh?
You oughta be ashamed of yourself but I just don't think you're capable.

February 8, 2010 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And a representative government...
What are the elected representatives supposed to be representing? The will of some lobbyist? Some special interest group?
Or is the elected representative supposed to be representing the will of the people? Because if that's the way it's supposed to be, we got some politicians that are BEYOND ignorant of the people's opinions of cannabis. I don't need to gather any voters at all. National polls indicate that cannabis is becoming more accepted than it has been in a long time. So, maybe you're the one that needs to be going door-to-door for support of your little anti-pot project.

February 8, 2010 at 10:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

What are you? A nine-year-old girl?

There's no fight. It's a matter of law. It's a controversy created by government and misuse of intoxicating substances.

Your lack of grasp of the real issues is doing nothing to support your position that "pot doesn't hurt anybody." Something has ####ed up your ability to think like an adult; hmmm . . . I wonder what it could be . . . I wonder . . . . ?

February 8, 2010 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Am I the one dodging the issues? I don't f#c/<ing think so!
I asked you some very straight-forward questions and you have absolutely failed at even coming close to a reasonable response. You come back with calling me a 9 year old girl. And then....THEN you have the gall to tell me that I have some inability to think like an adult?!?!
WTF is that? I think you just single-handedly destroyed yourself for me.

February 8, 2010 at 1:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Even the government knows....dude....

http://www.breakthematrix.com/Alterna...

February 8, 2010 at 3:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Most religion, as practiced today, is total BS. Even the Christian denominations mostly fail to follow the scriptures when to do so would interfere with the so-called "beliefs" of their members. This would go double for a marijuana-based religion.

None of your studies matter. People in charge don't care enough to change things. You and those like you don't make a compelling case for compassionate action by those in government.

Even if everything you believe was true, it just wouldn't matter. People have bigger problems and they don't see legalization of marijuana as the solution.

Joe six pack sees crime, violence and poverty associated with drug use in his home town. He pays taxes to fund welfare to take care of kids whose parents are druggies. He's not going to support yoru cause.

February 9, 2010 at 8:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
Once again, and maybe my communication skills aren't as honed as I had hoped, but you're completely missing my point. The question wasn't whether or not a religion is valid or correct. Personally, I think religion is a HUGE waste of time and emotion. But that's not what we're talking about here. If we're going to have a discussion about fundamental religious principles and the ensuing chaos that engulfs their practitioners, we're gonna have to take it to another comment section.
Allow me to clarify what my point was/is. As stated, it's not about whether someone's beliefs are correct. It's about their right to hold those beliefs, right or wrong. It's not your place to tell someone what right they have to believe in something. THAT is what America is all about. You do your thing, I'll do mine. You leave me be, I'll leave you be. Do you get it yet? Do you understand what the first amendment is now? You do believe in the concept of the first amendment, don't you? You did serve in the armed forces of the nation who's constitution has the first amendment within it, right?

Secondly, I could care less about a compassionate act coming from my government. The concept that our government has some fashion of benevolence ingrained in it is fantasy at best. Just ask the residents of New Orleans. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with compassion. What most of us are in this for is to expose the lies that were used to instate a corrupt drug policy and ultimately have the policy reversed. There is no viable reason to continue this EXTREMELY failed war on marijuana. It is stupid and wasteful beyond measure.

Next, I love how none of the sources I've posted about cannabis have any validity to you. It's like, "the rules are, I win. You are a stoner(apparently a 9 year-old girl too), and ergo, your points, facts and opinions are null and void. Nothing you could ever say, could ever possibly matter. Your argument means nothing because you are under the influence of this devil's lettuce." I wish I could have a debate with rules like that. I bet that makes things easy for ya. Tell me, where can I find a complete set of the rules for my own use?

This isn't really a debate. This is you thumbing your nose at me because you've got NOTHING to offer in the form of actual. Don't get me wrong, you've got loads of passion for the subject but you're also a hypocrite. You spend your time bashing pot and stoners but turn right around and openly admit that you'd grow it if it were legal. Thusly, your opinion means very, very little to me. You've got the integrity of frog poo.

February 9, 2010 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oooops....
....This is you thumbing your nose at me because you've got NOTHING to offer in the form of actual, real truth. Don't get me wrong....

....is the way it was s'posed to go.

February 9, 2010 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I've got an idea. Leave the house, go find something to do. Get some fresh air.

If you can't wait to get back to the house and smoke some dope, you may be the one with the problem.

February 9, 2010 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh....wow.....touche'.

With such a brilliant response to my comment, geez aich, I guess I'm all out of ideas. You are obviously COMPLETELY incapable of reasonably debating something as controversial as cannabis. If the best you've got is calling me a 9 year-old girl and telling me to go get some fresh air, I'll take that as your white flag of surrender.

Congratulations loser.

February 9, 2010 at 2:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

The surrender flag has a green leaf on it . . . surrender to stupidity as a way of life.

February 10, 2010 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Stupidity as a way of life?....ME?.....Have you been here for the whole debate? I annihilated every aspect of your "argument" and had you scrambling from the word 'go'.
You failed buddy. If this were in a court, they'd hold you in contempt for not even trying.
You had your a$$ handed to you by some stupid stoner. How'd it feel?

February 10, 2010 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh, and here's some meaningless scientific research that says my medicine doesn't make me stupid at all. If anything, it's probably giving me a leg up on you.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/2...

Ya know, just because you don't understand the science behind something doesn't mean that it isn't true.

February 10, 2010 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk (anonymous) says...

mmj, Although I agree with your stance in this debate, repeatedlly picking a fight with someone, declaring yourself the winner, and then gloating about it, does nothing to further your fight. Maybe it's time to focus your energy in other directions, the battle won't be won convincing aichempty.

February 10, 2010 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It's not so much that I'm looking to convince him of anything. It's not even that I'm gloating about being the only side of this 'debate' with any form of logic. If my gloating weren't highly relevant(if his argument wasn't that pot makes people dumb) to proving my points while destroying his, it probably would have been left out.
My mother once taught me that 'if you don't toot your own horn every once in a while, somebody might try to use it for a spittoon.' I'm not going to perpetuate the stereotype that daily tokers are just a bunch of pacified, idiotic, push-overs that are incapable of functioning at the level of a non-toker.
If someone is going to relentlessly pursue the defamation of a group of people that I'm a part of, I'm not going to roll over, curl up in the fetal position and stick my thumb in my mouth.

February 10, 2010 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

FYI, you are "debating" with someone more than 25 points smarter than President Obama, based on a number of different IQ tests, including SAT scores from "back in the day" when the SAT was an IQ test. I won two full academic scholarships to good schools, including a top 10 engineering school, as a senior in high school, and hold an advanced degree in a field of applied mathematics and LOGIC.

There is no drug trial I know of where the subject is allowed to evaluate his own performance while under the influence of an intoxicant and have that result published as "truth." There are studies which show that people who are intoxicated frequently overestimate their ability to perform routine tasks such as driving and operating machinery.

But please, don't be insulted. I feel the same way about alcohol abusers, prescription drug addicts, etc.

February 11, 2010 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

"FYI, you are "debating" with someone more than 25 points smarter than President Obama, based on a number of different IQ tests, including SAT scores from "back in the day" when the SAT was an IQ test. I won two full academic scholarships to good schools, including a top 10 engineering school, as a senior in high school, and hold an advanced degree in a field of applied mathematics and LOGIC."

and yet you proposed fixing global carbon emissions by dumping baking soda in the river. You claim it was a joke, but we all know better.

For all your vaunted education and brains, you have managed to show just how hard is is for you to learn new facts on this subject.

February 11, 2010 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
I've got 57 doctorate degrees. Most of them are honorary. (See, I can claim crap too)

And yet, in spite of all your advanced learning and specialness, you still have to resort to, "Hey, you're a 9 year-old girl," and, "go get some fresh air."
Best I can tell, neither of those two things had a damned thing to do with what I was asking you about. But I guess, since you went to some fancy college on some fancier scholarships, that you're just automatically right? You know, for all of your self-professed smarts, you sure have a hell of a time responding with-in the bounds of the topic at hand.
Oh, and I had no idea that you were so much more impressive than our president. Maybe you should have run aich.
Boy, now that I know you're so incredibly intelligent, I might just give up. It's all so very intimidating now.....(insert sarcasm here)

February 11, 2010 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Skifreelivelove (anonymous) says...

You can do anything you want as long as you work hard and focus on the goal at hand.. The patients in this town will succeed and overcome what most think is not possible. The laws have changed and the move has started.. Too late for aich and trump there words are a waste of time. Out GROW the government!

February 11, 2010 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

I have academic credentials that prove my ability to think logically.

freebie,

Focus on jumping over the Moon. Let's see how that turns out.

Trump,

What can I say? People with above average intelligence often have a sophisticated sense of humor. You apparently have neither. And by the way, the baking soda was to reduce acidity in the oceans. Learn a little chemistry and you might understand how ridiculous the whole idea would be, despite the fact that bicarbonate of soda is a base which neutralizes acids, which is why one of its emergency uses is to neutralize spilled acid (like from a lead-acid battery). My comment was intended to satirize the concept that reducing CO2 by 150 PPM would reverse global warming compared to the amount of methane and water vapor in the atmosphere . . . it would be about as effective as dumping a box of baking soda in the Yampa River to reduce the acidity in the Pacific Ocean.

February 11, 2010 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

That's kinda my point boy wonder. Maybe you're just following too many threads or something? Maybe the propaganda has irreversibly brain-washed you into believing everything that your government has taught you? Who knows?

Regardless of whatever academic blah-blah-blah you may have, the fact remains that you COMPLETELY dodged my questions. All that you said is that you have the ability to think logically. I sure didn't see a whole lot of logical points being volleyed at me from your side of the battlefield. But no, instead of answering the tough questions, you give me some mumbo-jumbo about having gone to school and how incredibly special and smart you are. That's not debating the issue. That's ignoring the issue to talk about how great you THINK you are. I don't know what universe you live in where simply having gone to college makes you the instant winner of any debate but it sure must be nice to live there. So, go on and be happy in your fantasy world. Have fun stroking your enormous ego.
But know in the end that some stupid stoner(me), worked your a$$ over on this comment board and left you with NOTHING in your verbal arsenal(in spite of all your big, fancy, higher learning), except to label me as a 9 year-old girl. Go ahead and read it through again, it's kinda funny.

And once again, congratulations aich. You made a very outstanding case for why we need to repeal absurdly failed drug policy. Outstanding!

February 11, 2010 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Ok...allow me to correct myself. Your posts may well have been littered with logic. However, logic and relevance are two entirely different things. While you may have been presenting some logic, very little of it had any relevance to what was being discussed.
Nonetheless, if you want to go back through and answer the questions that you've avoided like a coward, I'd be more than happy to entertain your responses.

February 11, 2010 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh, and I was just thinking about this one....

So, according to you, college degree=person thinks logically
and, no college degree=person incapable of logical thought

Do I have the basics of it? Do I got it about right?

February 11, 2010 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Untrained = ill equipped to solve complex problems

It does not mean you are ignorant or stupid. It just means you have not been challenged to think and solve problems by anyone in the business of making complex decisions. That's what graduate education in engineering and mathematics is all about.

Your error in all of this has been to take an unsupportable position and attempt to prove it with unsupportable/unaccepted arguments.

The bottom line is that you want to smoke pot and nobody can stop you. Here's a hint. Nobody wants to stop you. It's not worth our time and trouble.

I don't know what debate you think you've won, or what victory you think you've achieved, but you've been arguing in support of allowing people to pursue drug abuse using any possible justification, valid or not. Drug abuse is a waste of time on Earth, but it's your time to waste I guess. I just don't want to work to pay your room and board while you sit around stoned.

If you were not making an issue of out if, I would be quiet. If it only takes one person to tell you you're wasting your life on drugs to make you this angry and obsessed about it, I guess that one person is me.

Have a nice weekend. Got plans for Valentine's Day?

February 12, 2010 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So...you want to talk about it from a right/wrong, black/white point of view? Let's.
What you're basing your entire thought process on is a moral issue who's lifespan is extremely limited in the grand scope of human history. 70 some odd years ago, a lumber products investor, some pharmaceutical/alcohol big-wigs and a bunch of bored law enforcement types(freshly out of work, thanks to the repeal of prohibition) got together and DECIDED(out of nowhere) that it would be best to act on behalf of THEIR OWN interests by working to enact anti-pot laws. As you know, they even had to make up a new name for it...this 'marijuana', they claimed, was GUARANTEED to be a part of a rape/murder/theft near you. History tells a different story as to what reality actually is.
They invented a moral issue to serve their personal interests. How is that OKAY? Well, if it keeps a bunch of people employed, it can't be all that bad, right?

And really? You're gonna sit there and try to tell me, after you so viciously avoided my questions and railed in support of maintaining the prohibition of marijuana....you're telling me that there's no debate?
Simply claiming that your opponent's argument is null and void, based solely on it being some sort of "unsupportable position" is a real fancy way of trying to quiet your opposition. You learn that in college? How's it go?...'if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS.' Well aich, I must say, you've got me baffled. I don't understand your reasoning but it seems to be good enough for you. That seems to be all that matters to you since you can't seem to back up ANYTHING you say with sources. Like I've said before, it must be nice to live in a world where you can make all your own rules.

And since you seem to have an interest, my Valenturds(thanks Doc) day plans include resting at home with my lovely girlfriend. Rest seems appropriate after only 6 hours of sleep to support the last 2-3 days of snow farming.

February 14, 2010 at 7:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Let's see:

Unless I've missed something, you seem to be the one who doesn't want to live by the rules set down by our lawful government.

What about the farmers growing opium poppies and the coca plant? That's employment, isn't it?

No, there's no debate. There's just a controversy. You don't like the way things are, and I don't care if you don't like it..How's that?

February 15, 2010 at 7:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

So...s#!+ on Colorado's state rights? Is that correct?

And if you think anyone here gives a damn about what you do, or do not, approve of...well, you give yourself a lot of credit, probably way more than you're due. The people have obviously spoken and they're saying that the current federal legislation regarding pot is absurd, out dated and WAY overdue to be repealed...just like the alcohol prohibition.

That's the real issue. You stand to gain something from marijuana remaining illegal and you're pissed that things are changing. Well, you might as well get used to it now. It's gonna be a lot easier for you when it gets fully legalized. Rogue DEA agents, like the one in Denver that just recently abandoned any regard for the authority of the White House, have a very short time left. The people of this country won't stand up for it much longer and they'll demand change. It's already starting...and there's not a god damned, M-F'ing thing you can do about it. If you don't like it so much, move the hell out of my state. How's that?

February 15, 2010 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Like I said, it won't be tolerated for long...

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/...

February 15, 2010 at 11:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And again, it looks like you're not the only one that's worried about it...

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/02/...

February 15, 2010 at 7:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Take a Civics class. Read about the Civil War . . . oh, wait, that's right, the history books have all been changed to teach kids that it was about freeing the slaves. Wrong. It was about states' rights. The states lost.

You need to go study the fall of the Roman Empire in light of the recent evidence which indicates that they were all being poisoned by lead. Nero did crazy things because he was ... wait for it . . . CRAZY as a result of heavy-metal poisoning.

I don't care if marijuana is legalized. I simply say it won't happen as long as responsible people are in charge of the government. When enough dopers get into office to change it, it will be one more social disaster for this country, far bigger than the housing bubble that granted credit to people who could not pay.

This country will be taken over by hard-working immigrants and the dope-smoking natives will end up sweeping the floor IF they can get a job at all. You need to get out and visit some small towns in rural areas of the country and see who is running the businesses. People from India and Pakistan are taking over motels, gas stations, convenience stores, etc., and selling beer, gas, smokes, chips and lottery tickets to the native citizens who are barely capable of staying employed at menial jobs because of their lack of education, drug use, and reliance upon government welfare programs. People work five days a week sucking guts out of chickens in a factory that smells like rotten feathers, and then run down to the quick-stop on Friday to buy a case or two of beer to stay drunk until Monday morning. That's your reality. They're probably smoking marijuana all weekend long, too.

So, yeah, things are changing alright. I can't wait until it all jumps up and bites the middle class on the @$$. The "kids" growing up in Colorado today are going to find out that smoking marijuana and drinking alcohol as a way of life are a one-way ticket out of town.

People with money are going to win. It happened when people moved in from outside to buy up the inventory of rental housing back in the 90s, and it will happen again, but worse, during the next recovery.

So, go ahead and preach to your drug-addled buddies, but when the dust settles, most of them will be living a long way from Steamboat Springs, because they won't be able to afford to live anywhere nearby.

Oh, and have you heard the news about global warming? It was all a hoax since 1995, just like your claims for marijuana are today.

Honestly, though, I can understand why you wouldn't want to go to rehab. You'd have to face reality. That would suck for you, I'm sure. Staying "medicated" is much better as long as you can swing it. When that's no longer possible, they'll be taking applications at chicken processing plants and paying enough for you to afford a mobile home 100 miles from the interstate highway system in a state somewhere east of Colorado. Enjoy.

February 16, 2010 at 7:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

FWIW, I read the articles you posted.

You need to get a grip on a couple of things. First, the letter written by the attorney is just BS. Letters from lawyers don't mean anything except to people who are afraid of lawyers. It's just a more expensive form of Charmin.

Second, the DEA knows full well that marijuana is illegal in this country. An executive order by the President that thwarts the will of Congress (which makes the laws the President is sworn to uphold) is a violation of the law. Nobody in the DEA is going to get in trouble for investigating dispensary owners who are profiting from trafficking in marijuana.

If the head of the DEA told its agents to execute traffickers on the spot instead of bringing them in for trial, that would be a blatant violation of the law. An unlawful order is just that; unlawful. The President and the heads of executive agencies are not immune from the laws passed by Congress, and if somebody wants to make a big deal out of it, the Supreme Court would be the one to decide.

Personally, I wouldn't sit around waiting for the Supreme Court to tell Congress that the President can change the laws with the stroke of a pen. There are three equal branches of the government, and this is a case where the Constitution clearly gives the power to Congress.

So, it was nice while it lasted, wasn't it?

The lesson here is that people took an inch of compassion and tried to turn it into a mile-long strip mall lined with marijuana dispensaries. Oops.

February 16, 2010 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

paddlefisher (anonymous) says...

anybody listen to 9 news lately..break ins at dispenceries...bust at Highlands Ranch a drug dealer hoping to find loop holes in the system..i hate to say this but this is just another way for adult adolests dopers stoners to get high legally..crime will go up count on it..I smoked dope in the day but grew out of it maybe you should too..when i wake up my knees hurt from bump skiing playin ball and just gettin old..so what is the difference of me goin to the liquor store to medicate than you gettin DOPE..I have chosen to not drink and deal with my pain its called old age..now if you are HIGH and run into my family and phyisiaclly harm them are you at less fault than a drunk driver..I have heard that it helps with cancer and cronic pain HELLO getin drunk helps with cronic pian just like gettin high..as far as cancer goes there are plenty of highly skilled hospitals than can help you with your problem..psst here dont bogart that joint its my turn...thanks you cured my wrist I thought it was broke but it feels so much better so dude lets ripp it up..last once to the gondie buys

February 16, 2010 at 5:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
Bear in mind, my initial reaction to the news of the Highlands Ranch bust was posted prior to the update that the DEA ended up confiscating a significant number of plants. According to the DEA, Mr. Bartkowitz was growing more than 200 plants for his patients. Initial reports had indicated that he had nowhere near enough patients to legally validate the original estimate of even 150 plants. The memo clearly states that federal resources are to be reserved for those that are in clear and unambiguous violation of state laws. Was Mr. Bartkowitz? I guess that's what the courts are for.
Mr. Bartkowitz's legal status as a caregiver is now going to depend on his defense for having more than the state allotted ratio of plants/patients. In the case of patients that have respiratory issues, or are a medical marijuana patient because of some respiratory issue, many choose to consume their cannabis via edible or topical methods. Preparing cannabis in this manner requires a substantially larger amount of plant matter than if it were destined for traditional use as a combusted or vaporized medicine. If, in fact, a majority of the patients he provid-ED(past tense being stressed) care for fall into that category, I'd say he's got more than a decent shot at not seeing the worst of our legal system. The results of the trial will surely be interesting.

Secondly, are you suggesting that the President has committed an impeachable offense by having that memo sent out?
Maybe you should have had this whole, 'three equal branches of government' schpeel with our most recent, former commander-in-chief. The other branches of our government didn't seem to offer much cause for pause when he was all gung-ho about going and gettin' Sadaam for his daddy. Maybe my perception is off though?

And lastly, you want to call the vote for Amendment 20 'an inch of compassion'? Maybe I'm just weird, but a majority vote seems like a little bit more than an inch of compassion. Methinks you're still just all butt-hurt about it finally being available to those that choose cannabis over all the other junk out there. I sure don't hear any rants about how many liquor stores there are around. Am I missing those comment boards? Are they on this site somewhere? Or is all the outrage and hullabaloo wrapped around cannabis(...pssst...it's SAFER than alcohol)?

February 16, 2010 at 9:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And Paddlefisher-
If you're trying to assert that it's safer to get all plastered out of your mind with alcohol, than it is to lite up a few bowls....well, that would explain all the brilliance that's seething from your comment.

February 16, 2010 at 10:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

paddlefisher (anonymous) says...

not at all in fact if i were to chose between the two i think someone that is high is far safer than a plastered drunk not that i condon either one..if you read my post you should have seen that i chose not to drink or smoke

February 17, 2010 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I did read your post. Your post was a little difficult to understand.(Nothing to do with my meds. Just poor grammar.)

February 17, 2010 at 8:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Congress controls the money. If they had not supplied it for Iraq, we would not have invaded. Nobody sued to stop the war. Yeah, all three branches of government were behind it.

Impeachable offenses are subject to interpretation. It's all political.

Everything in our system of justice comes down to whether the people in place to act choose to do so. Nothing that is "for" or "against" the law is certain. How often, for example, do you see a state patrol officer obeying the speed limit?

The vote for Amendment 20 is moot. It doesn't matter how many people voted if it's against federal law. You've got to take it national to really change things.

February 17, 2010 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-
Do you even have the slightest clue as to what the current national consensus is about cannabis and it's 'okay'-ness? I don't think you do. I'd say that the worst case scenario is 50/50 and realistically it's probably a little closer to 60/40 in favor of cannabis. Do you honestly think the legalization bill in California has the slightest chance of failing? Do you honestly believe that Colorado will not almost immediately follow suit once it passes? I mean hells bells aich, even frickin' NJ has medical marijuana legislation now!

February 17, 2010 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And I think it's really great that you're spitting in the face of everyone that voted for Amendment 20. Bang up job duder.

February 17, 2010 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

COMPLAIN TO CONGRESS, dumb@$$.

I don't make the laws. Why are you blaming me for simply telling the truth other than the fact you don't agree with it. GET OVER IT.

You are unable to understand and deal with reality. Shooting the messenger won't change a thing.

February 18, 2010 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Aich-

Do you honestly believe that I'm complaining to you in hopes of you changing the laws for me? Man, you really do give yourself WAY more credit than you're actually due. I know you don't make the laws. And I'm not blaming you for the way federal law reads. I'm blaming you for being brainwashable enough to actually believe that the federal drug laws in this country(the ones from after 1935) actually contain their appropriate root in justice. I mean after all, isn't that kinda the whole thing behind laws; seeing to the fair, just and equal treatment of our fellow man? That is what the purpose of having laws is, correct? Or am I inventing my own reality or something?

February 18, 2010 at 9:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

Now you're catching on. Yes, you are inventing your own reality.

Did you know that Colorado law says that if someone obtains a judgment against you by fraud, you only have six months to do something about it, or the State will back them up in collecting the money from you, even if you can PROVE you were cheated? So, yes, your state government comes down on the side of cheats and criminals against honest people.

Why should I have 25% of my income confiscated by the government to fund services for people who pay less than I do for the same benefit? In some cases, I pay for benefits for others that I am not eligible to obtain because I make too much money. How is that fair?

The people in our governments are like the Pharisees who had Jesus put to death for healing people (which was considered "working") on the Sabbath. It's about power and privilege and staying in a cushy job at the expense of productive citizens.

The guy who flew into the IRS office building yesterday did so, in part, because he said he could not understand how the same government that gave money to bankers who ruined the financial system could be persecuting a "little guy" for back taxes owed on an IRA he cashed in during a year he was unemployed. He was being penalized for using his own money that he saved out of his income to live on while he was unemployed, and the government didn't give him squat to help out, yet they bailed out GM and the banks and AIG.

So, guess what, life isn't fair and neither is the government. It has nothing to do with seeing after the welfare of our fellow man. It's all about taking money away from one guy for the benefit of another guy, and getting voted back into office in return.

Do you get it now?

February 19, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh yeah, it all makes perfect sense now. You're right.

You don't seem to want to stay on topic anymore. I'll catch ya later.

February 19, 2010 at 8:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

He, he, he. You changed the subject. What a perfect example of marijuana mental meltdown.

February 20, 2010 at 7:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

paddlefisher (anonymous) says...

mmj I'd like to apoligize to you and the rest of the mmj patients what works for you is none of my business and I have no right to critize that..God ,your right the more I read my post the dumber it sounds

February 20, 2010 at 7:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

aich-
Don't talk to me about changing the subject/skirting the issue/beating around the bush. I dare you to go back and count how many of my questions you actually answered directly. I dare you.

swimcaster-
No need for an apology. As of recently, there has been a colossal eruption of negativity coming from the conservative anti-pot punditry in the media. The pick over every last bit of daily news to find the one negative thing that happened in regards to marijuana and then they plaster it all over the news like it's ACTUALLY destroying the fabric of America or something. It gets pretty disgusting. So, my reaction was more about fighting against that kind of faulty thinking than railing against you personally.
For Americans like aich, there's not much reality other than doing whatever they're told they're supposed to be doing...like all the other good sheeple. Thinking outside the box can get you in trouble ya know.

February 21, 2010 at 7:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

It's not that I cannot think for myself. It's just that I don't agree with you. I'm older, wiser, probably richer and definitely more experienced in the ways of the world and conditions across this country in places you've never been.

Maybe you're the "sheeple" who've bought off on the marijuana propaganda, eh? Ever think of that?

February 22, 2010 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself to go to sleep at night.

February 22, 2010 at 5:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

What about using taxpayer dollars in an intelligent/efficient manner? It's almost like there's a new push being made by the anti-pot side. You'd think that the last 70 years, or so, of wasteful, failed drug warring would have given these guys enough of a reason for pause. Instead, they catch wind of some medical marijuana caregiver that's about to be in a news story and they call in the raid squad. You've really gotta question motivation on this one.
Personally, I'm a big fan of the way this guy puts it;

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2...

February 23, 2010 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It might not be much, but if you'd like to take advantage of the opportunity to tell our President what you think about our nation's current marijuana policy, here ya go;

https://secure2.convio.net/dpa/site/A...

February 23, 2010 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It should have been ...

...to tell our President(or whoever REALLY receives the email) what you think...

I'm sure the form doesn't actually go directly to him but it's the thought that counts.

February 23, 2010 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And like I said, wasteful and failed. In this case, 1,700lbs of wasteful failure.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/...

February 23, 2010 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Here's what I can tell you.

If you obey the laws, pay your taxes and act prudently in every other area of your life, your chances of being involved with the criminal or civil justice systems will be greatly reduced. Once you do become a part of one or both of those systems, your choices and options immediately become limited, and you will spend years dealing with the backlash.

My "position" is that I know and understand the laws and regulations which govern us, and I act in my own best interest.

Here's a big ol' hint. When you mess around with the government, you are dealing with small minds and careers which really don't pay very well for the majority of workers. This includes law enforcment officers. If they're not doing it for the money, then why are they doing it? Public service? They can? It's the best they can do? Power?

Why put yourself at odds with people who can make your life miserable?

All I can say is, I hope it's worth it. Personally, I plan to stay away from both sides of the controversy in my "real" life and just assume that everybody I deal with is on drugs. That goes from making sure the bagger at the market picks up all my stuff to checking the oil cap and lug nuts when I have my oil changed and tires rotated. People have died from small oversights like that, and I hope to avoid a similar fate.

Have a good day.

February 23, 2010 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

aich-

Laws are all fine and good...when they're reasonable. Stop signs; reasonable. Don't kill/rape/harm/hurt people; reasonable. Don't steal things that don't belong to you; reasonable. Amendment 20; reasonable.
Arresting&prosecuting(with a possible 5-40 year prison sentence for the tax-payers to pay for on top of the trial, raid and mandated care for surviving plants) a LICENSED caregiver for having too many plants by a factor of only 3; NOT very reasonable. Federal schedule 1 classification(meaning that it does not have medicinal value) of a PLANT that has been PROVEN to have medicinal benefits on multiple levels; NOT very reasonable. Maintaining funding for the pursuit of cannabis users in general, by the DEA(Drug Employment Agency); so incredibly UN-reasonable that it bears repeating. Honestly, go hunt down some of the real scum in this country, or go bust some LICENSED pot grower that's about to be on the news?.....how frickin' ridiculous!!!

I'm just glad that my medicine allows me to go out and aptly perform my own oil changes/tire rotations/misc. vehicle maintenance. I usually don't have to worry about some idiot screwing up the things that are important enough for me to do myself. You know what they say about doing things right...

But maybe it IS safest for you to walk around in life just A$$uming that everyone around you is on some sort of drug. Just be thankful for the ones that choose cannabis. At least they're non-violent.

Oh yeah, and have a fantastic day buddy.

February 23, 2010 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

They're "non violent" around here. In other places, they don't have the same scruples. Ever heard of a kid getting the crap kicked out of him for a jacket or shoes? Same goes for cash to buy pot. I guess the "non violence" comes after they get high . . . .

Hey, want to know a funny one? The only time I ever found a loose lug nut was on a boat trailer where I had replaced the wheels myself late at night before leaving early the next morning. I drove about a mile and got out to check just to make sure everything was okay, and two of four were missing on one side. It was almost a disaster. That's why I double check, and why I stopped to double check that day. Stuff happens even when people have the best of intentions. Being tired or in a hurry can result in an avoidable accident.

Hey, go read the other thread. You might be interested in a report I found that supports some of your pro-pot logic.

I'm not "for" or "against." I'm for getting to the truth. Everybody always forgets that unless I agree with them immediately.

February 23, 2010 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Hey, I'm all about the TRUTH. I don't think I could ever express to you enough just how much I revolve my life around it.
As for you claiming that you're not against it....c'mon man. Be honest. After all the countless hours that we've both invested in these comment boards, you're gonna sit there and try to honestly claim that you're not against it? C'mon! Get real man! Why don't you try to practice a little of what you're preaching before you get to the pulpit?

And you illustrate my points about the black market wonderfully. Thank you. Were there not a reason(federal illegality of cannabis) to abide by the "rules" of the black market, would the effects of those actions still be felt throughout society? I think not. And I hate to repeat myself, but maybe you think that all of the gang violence that surrounds the black/underground market would still thrive/flourish if their primary product was suddenly okay for anyone to grow/possess/use in their own homes? Maybe you think all of the drug violence at our Southern boarder would suddenly explode if marijuana were RE-legalized? Seems silly to me but that's not all that surprising coming from you.

And you have to agree with someone in order for them to be correct?

February 23, 2010 at 8:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

Yeah, you know what? Legalize everything. Give it a year or two and the problem of abuse will take care of itself.

February 24, 2010 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Hey space cadet,
Is this a medical 'everything' article or a medical marijuana article?
Thank you for once again proving who does and who does not have the ability to stay on topic. It appears that you're the one that's trying to redirect things by getting on the 'legalize everything' track. Make up your mind about what we're discussing and I'll gladly discuss it. Maybe I'm just not medicated enough to follow that many different tangents, all simultaneously.
I'd say it's more like a year or two before you get over your denial issues when it finally gets re-legalized.

February 24, 2010 at 9:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

My favorite part of this article is when the city of Denver gets 'over a million bucks' from their efforts to regulate the industry.
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/...

March 1, 2010 at 8:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Let's talk strategy for minute. More specifically, war strategy.
If one were to wage a war against a formidable adversary.....

Ya know what? It's not even worth it. The war on "drugs" that everyone is so gleefully funding is nothing more than a modern day witch-hunt for stoners. Plain and simple, 100% truth.

http://stash.norml.org/wp-content/upl...

March 1, 2010 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

We'd all be much better off if they stopped arresting people for use and possession of small amounts, and instead concentrated on tax collection. They could make a mint right there in Steamboat.

Here's the thing; until the laws allow me to grow it in my back yard, pack as much as I want in my suitcase and carry it on an airplane, and allow my passengers to blow cannabis smoke rings while the State Patrol checks my license and registration, there's not much more to talk about.

March 1, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Brownie points on the first bullet.
Not so much for the second one though. All you're doing is digging your hypocrite hole a little deeper. You spend the entirety of your time on here railing against potheads, and going on&on about how the laws are, and how helpless we all are to change federal law....and then you go and say some crap like,
"...until the laws allow me to grow it in my back yard, pack as much as I want in my suitcase and carry it on an airplane, and allow my passengers to blow cannabis smoke rings while the State Patrol checks my license and registration..."
What a shame! You must be totally ignorant to the laws because the laws that I abide by allow me to grow it in my backyard. If I fly out of Oakland, I can bring my allotted amount of marijuana with me on the plane. And if I were a passenger in a car, I could roast up as much pot as I wanted to during any traffic stop(with-in Colorado). All with-in the bounds of the law. President Obama even says so. Maybe you need to get your medical license aich?

March 1, 2010 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And for those that wish to do something other than wonder what there is to do in cannabis activism, here's a good starting point. There's a world wide marijuana march scheduled to take place on May 1st this year. Of all the cities that have someone that's signed up their city as a participating city, I guess Steamboat ending up on the list is no surprise. In Steamboat, the march is scheduled for 10am-2pm and will be held at the courthouse. If you're interested, contact 'Donald' @ 970-276-1290.

March 1, 2010 at 5:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

It's like they make up their own rules regardless of what voter will truly is.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_14489539

March 2, 2010 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

It's really simple. A city cannot vote and change State law or Federal law. The powers granted to any governmental body are outlined in the Constitutions and laws that derive from them.

Denver may be able to prevent its own cops from enforcing the state and federal laws, but that doesn't make it illegal for State or Federal authorities to do so.

I hate to go down this road again, but sometimes the answer is "I said so" no matter how much it's disliked.

Is your march going to be at the "courthouse" or the so-called "justice center?" I'm assuming you know the difference.

March 4, 2010 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

aich-

I just don't understand how you can 'write-off' voter will like that. Isn't that what our country is supposed to be about; the democratic power of a vote? It's about the principle of it. Everyone should get a say in the matter and most of what's being said is that the war against marijuana has been one of the biggest blunders our country has ever conjured up. The TRILLIONS of dollars that have been wasted on unjust prosecution and imprisonment is shameful and people are getting really tired of paying some goons to go chase stoners for a living. What a pathetic job anyway! Yeah, real 'difference makers' they all are.

And secondly, it's not 'my' march at all. THE march will be held at the actual courthouse.

March 4, 2010 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

The voters only have the power given to them by the Constitutions under which they live.

Voters really need to understand that unless they are prepared to amend the constitution to make marijuana legal under federal law, the only alternative is to vote for representatives who will vote to repeal or amend the Controlled Substances Act.

There are lots of things that could be done in modern times to modify our system of government. After all, it was formed in a time when horseback was the fastest means of transportation.

Wyoming has one Representative and two Senators. It is a large state with a small population. It gets a proportionate vote in the House, and an equal vote in the Senate. It's part of our system of checks and balances. This system helps make sure that a populous state like New York or California cannot impose their will unjustly on the voters in a distant state with a small population. It's the same in reverse when a state like Wyoming isn't allowed to push through a law requiring something like every house being required to have a stable for two horses in all the other states.

So, the truth is that cannabis activism anywhere but in the U S House of Representatives and U S Senate is just a waste of time. Change that ONE LAW at the federal level and all the rest is taken care of. It just doesn't work in reverse the way you want it to.

And, finally, one more time, laws are not passed to protect people and ensure fair play. Historically, they are passed by a bunch of old white guys who like to screw people over. That's why, as I mentioned earlier, Colorado is one of the states that uses its power to take money from people who were defrauded and give it to the crooks.

You can't count on the protection of the law unless you are also prepared to live as it requires. Know it and follow it, or don't, at your peril. That's life in America. Here's your sign . . .

March 5, 2010 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trump_suit (anonymous) says...

It seems to me that the reality of 14 States already with Medical marajuana might convince you that the state and local gov't DO in fact have that control, but perhaps it has slipped your notice that the change is already underway and that it is coming from the local level.

March 5, 2010 at 6:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

trump,

When those people with medical marijuana licenses transport their "medicine" through the other 36 states, take it into a federal facility (like a military base, NASA compound, etc.) or attempt to go through U S Customs, they may learn the hard way that federal law still applies.

If local grass-roots politics results in the repeal or amendment of the CSA, then the laws will allow what you want. Until then, it may have escaped your notice that violation of federal law is done at your peril, and state law is not a defense against a federal prosecution.

People are making themselves prisoners in the pro-pot states, and unfortunately, a lot of them are way too dumb to realize how much trouble they can get into until they do. A DUI typically costs a person over $20,000 in court fees, legal fees, fines, and insurance premiums. That won't cover your legal costs in a federal criminal trial.

But, hey, do what you want. As I was once told by man who turned out to be very wrong about something, "You are the master of your own fate."

There's a lot about our laws that really pi$$e$ me off, but people who haven't been victimized by them don't care. It has to hit home first. People are selfish and dumb for the most part (look at the SB700 controversy for examples of this on both sides of the issue, and then imagine a referendum on legalization of pot.) I believe it will take a constitutional amendment to change the drug laws at the federal level. Anything less puts too many political careers on the line.

So, whether or not I agree with legalizing pot, I do not disagree with the rights of the people to make changes through our elected officials and constitutional procedures. I don't believe the pot users can get enough support to make it happen. That's just my opinion.

March 6, 2010 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

aich-
Holy crap! You said pot 'users' instead of 'abusers'. Oh aich, I'm so damn proud of you!
(insert grain of salt here)
And not to perpetuate the stereotype or anything, but how many pot 'users' do you think make it to NASA every year? Again, not to perpetuate stereotypes, but pot use and rocket science have never been like PB&J.
Same goes for military bases. The "zero tolerance" thing really puts a damper on bringing cannabis onto a military base.
For the most part, that's something that we all bear in mind before we go somewhere federal; "...car keys, wallet, ...and oh yeah, don't put all that pot in your pocket." It's not like I carry my medicine with me everywhere I go. Just my card.

And lastly, your opinion must be broken or something. How could you possibly convince yourself that there isn't enough support for cannabis legalization? Do you live under TWO rocks? There have been 14 states to enact medical marijuana legislation since 1996 and there are at least a handful of states that are currently considering medical marijuana legislation. And not that 300,000 people live there or anything, but our very own Breckenridge voted to legalized it all on their own. Even beyond all that, California residents will be voting on cannabis legalization later this year. Maybe all of that voter intent is just some fantasy that us pot users are imagining?

March 6, 2010 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

housepoor (anonymous) says...

500 POSTS? what a luxury to have that much time on your hands

March 8, 2010 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...

mmj,

So, with medical marijuana "legal" in Colorado, why not go down to the U S Air Force Academy with your stash in your pocket and light up at the visitors center?

300,000 people is a drop in the bucket. 30,000,000 is not a majority. You can't mean 300,000,000 can you?

I think, yeah, you are all fantasizing until it actually happens. When it happens, it will be true, but not before. Half the people who run for President lose. This is no different.

March 8, 2010 at 2:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

housepoor-

You say it like we sit here for hours at a time to come up with a maximum of 3000 characters per post. It's really not all that time consuming to use up that many characters.

aich-

I've been to the Air Force Academy a few times. Mostly all when I was younger. Even did a Boy Scout camping trip at the Academy(yes, I was a Boy Scout). I've had my fill of military bases while I was in the Navy and don't have much of an interest in visiting that many bases in the future. And should chance/fortune bring me to a military base, I'll be sure to leave my medicine behind. I've worked with gate security guys before and I don't ever see me being dumb enough to give one of them a reason to use the force that they're authorized to use, on me.
You seem to be under the assumption that, because we now have the right to access our medicine, that we're going to abandon all reason and regard for other laws. You must think that all MMJ patients are rebellious, punk-a$$ teenage hooligans that are just out to get a rise out of the conservatives. You've got to stop watching Reefer Madness. It's just not reality.

And I wasn't shooting for 30,000,000 or 300,000,000. I wrote what I meant but that's never seemed to make much of a difference to you. But far be it from me to rob you of an opportunity to embarrass yourself by trying to twist the words of another one of my posts. Breckenridge doesn't have anywhere near the population to push any sort of a national vote through.
What I was referring to was how widespread the idea is. 14 states with medical marijuana legislation in as many years. At least five other states are currently considering MMJ legislation and CA is going the distance later this year by going all out with full legalization. At that rate, it won't take long(worst case, a decade) for a majority of the states in this Union to have something on the books that says it's not okay for cops to bust MMJ patients.
And I hate repeating myself BUT...maybe you're the one living in a fantasy land? Your pretty little anti-marijuana, pot-free America is slipping into the mist(or smoke, as it were).

March 8, 2010 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Hey-
At least we have some lawmakers that are willing to take a stand for us, even is just temporarily.
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_...

ps-housepoor--that one took about 30 seconds.

March 8, 2010 at 6:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

and one more thing aich--

HA!!!
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n1...
...and again, HA!!!

March 8, 2010 at 6:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And you say there isn't enough support for it. What a joke!

http://www.change.org/ideas/view/lega...

March 8, 2010 at 7:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Here's a much better representation of the real numbers behind marijuana legalization and also a superb resource for information regarding MMJ legislation across the nation. I guess you have to leave it to the people that actually care.

http://blog.norml.org/2010/03/03/medi...

March 9, 2010 at 8:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I wish there was a way to insert a repeating audio clip of a cricket chirping in here.

March 13, 2010 at 6:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And just a little forewarning to all of you cardholders out there that think you're ACTUALLY protected and served in the same manner as your non-cardholding neighbors...DO NOT let your guard down!
Apparently, it's okay for police in Washington to abandon protocol for aiding an injured civilian if the injured civilian has admitted to being in possession of live cannabis plants.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/03/...

March 15, 2010 at 7:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

But hey, at least no one here is dumb enough to think that banning blunt wraps is a step in the right direction.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/03/...

March 15, 2010 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Let's get a pool going. How long do you think it will take for Wal-Mart to reverse it's drug policy for employees?? It sure didn't take long for companies like North Face and Starbucks to proclaim their separation from anti-pot groups. I guess they like their customers.
In a very weird, twisted, twilight zone, Matrix, sorta way...I guess it makes sense though; making sure YOUR employees can only buy and use the drugs that are available in YOUR stores.

http://blog.mpp.org/medical-marijuana...

March 16, 2010 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

MMJ-
Yes, the sound of crickets here is deafining.
Maybe, just maybe it is time to present a new and exciting point of view????
Keep it interesting brother.

March 16, 2010 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I'm not quite sure what most of you expect from me, in the way of commentary. I don't think I've been misleading in my purpose or intent. I am well aware that my drum beat sounds relatively similar a good majority of the time. Is that surprising to any of you? For Pete's sake, my screen name is "mmjPatient22" and 99.9% of my postings are on comment boards relating to cannabis articles.

As far as a "new and exciting point of view" goes, what exactly are you proposing? My point of view is that;
(1) to say that the war on drugs has failed is the understatement of the century,
(2) the federal drug policy in this country HAS to come to terms with, and change according to, the voter's will on this one,
(3) to imprison/incriminate someone on the grounds that "marijuana is illegal" is itself a crime and
(4) those that tolerate/condone any criminal activity that is being perpetrated on the free citizenry of this country should damn well be ashamed of themselves.
Countless men and women have DIED to protect and preserve our freedom as a nation. How dare someone try to come along and take any of that freedom from anyone else!
Until something "new" or "exciting" happens with our national drug policy, I'm afraid that I will have to keep beating the same old drum. There are too many people out there that have had their lives affected FOREVER by the policies that attempt to regulate morality. I've been quiet about it for a long time, mainly in my ignorance. Like I've said before, I'm ex-military. I bought into the lies too, once upon a time ago. Since those days, I've been exposed to a different reality/truth. Anymore, I don't have the ability to ignore those truths as I once did. It is my intention to debunk/expose those lies, and the ones that spread them until the day I die or until they are corrected.

March 16, 2010 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Really, how many of you actually went and read the stories that are connected to those links? There is some egregious s#!+ happening to people's rights in this country and it's a befuddlement to me that more of you aren't outraged by it.
I mean, honestly, how do you even come up with the b@//z to fire someone that has an inoperable brain tumor? Hot pee test, or not? The guy was frickin' employee of the YEAR, for cryin' out loud!!! If someone fired my brother/dad/grandpa when they had cancer...well, I won't go there.

March 16, 2010 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

mmj-
my point is this, this line of discussion is pointless without an opposing view. While I am 100 percent for the use of MJ, for medicinal use, there is only so many times you can repeat the same arguements before others stop listening.
Why not turn someones ear by pointing out something like...oh..say, the young lady who at last we heard is still in a hosp somewhere recovering from an alcohol related accident, the gentleman that was smacked down by crossing the street into oncoming traffic. Both of those incidents involved liquer. I dont remember weed being mentioned in either case. Sometimes in order to keep your voice heard, you need to ruffle some feathers. The feathers have either grown bored of your point of view or simply decided to agree to disagree. I haven't posted for a while, (Thanks again Brent for helping me with that problem..) but I assure you that I read the posts daily. Even though I support the right of any sick person finding relief however they can, I got tired of reading the same thing over and over again since September.
Aich has declined posting...doesn't that say something?
You are obviously an intelligent person who has done your research, give us something new to ponder.
OR, here is an idea, write an article and submit it for publication. Start a new line of discussion. If the Pilot wont print all of your ideals, try the Local.

March 16, 2010 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

Oh, and how 'bout we make sure that people who are afflicted with HIV can't have a job either? Wouldn't want them to be able to afford any of their medical expenses now would we?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/15/...

March 16, 2010 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

there you go!

March 16, 2010 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

bandmama-

I feel ya. Like I said, I'm aware that I can get a little monotonous from time to time. I do enjoy the debate of it all but I try to stay in my "allotted space" for the topic. I could, by all means, go from article-to-article looking for the next foolhardy commentator that thinks the war on drugs is a good idea but I believe that would be exponentially more annoying to the Pilot staff than what I already do. Instead, I look for the debate it where it's more relevant, right here in a cannabis article.
And, as I'm sure you're aware, I have no problem with rustling a few feathers from time to time. I would thoroughly enjoy writing something up, albeit anonymously, for one of the papers here in town and that has been a consideration of mine for some time now. Call it a waiting game, call it writers block, but I just haven't come up with an inspirational enough of a topic(or sub-topic, I guess) to delve into an article-length essay on the matter. Although it hasn't happened yet, one day you might just see an article composed by yours truly. Until then, you'll just have to settle for checking on the comment updates.

March 16, 2010 at 5:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

I would love to read an article by written by you. I dont think the Pilot will allow anonymous articles, but there are such things as pen names. Try the Local, start something else.
Although,....
Brent, considering the tremendous amount of comments this artical has generated, what about a one time article by MMJ?

March 16, 2010 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

bandmama-

Thank you for the compliment. If there's a large enough demand for it, I guess I'll be forced to write something up.
As for exciting, I got your exciting right here. I was just surfing the latest cannabis-news when I came across something that made me think twice about leaving the windows open this summer. Apparently, making love to someone at too loud of a decibel level is all that police need to search your residence. I guess I'll have to buy a couple of gags or twist up some t-shirts or something.

http://rawstory.com/2010/03/loud-sex-...

March 16, 2010 at 6:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

And maybe this is the reason that there's such a limited voice of opposition to what I say. I'm not too worried about being in good company if the bad company is only the other 2%.

http://msnbc.newsvine.com/_question/2...

March 16, 2010 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

OMG...LOL!!
While I did suggest that you ruffle a few feathers....
I might point out that loud screaming reguardless of the source, might prompt some to call 911.
That said....you may have just pointed out a major increase in space for the Pilot Blotter, I foresee a major increase in crime, due to neighbors just not beiing sure if they should report the loud, really loud screaming from your windows this summer.
I wonder what those running for sheriff would do?

March 16, 2010 at 7:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mmjPatient22 (another anonymous cannabis user) says...

I guess I'll just have to make sure to throw in the occasional "yeeeehhaaaawwww" or "yippy ki-yay m**** f****r" to make sure everyone knows that it's all in good fun.

March 16, 2010 at 8:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bandmama (anonymous) says...

The possibilities are endless.......

March 17, 2010 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aichempty (anonymous) says...