J Michael Turner: Don't insult us
Sunday, October 11, 2009
Steamboat Springs — The coverage of the City Council meeting on Sept. 29 in the following day's Steamboat Today contained a statement by Ed MacArthur that said, in essence, the majority of us are just not smart enough to make an informed decision on the Steamboat 700 issue. I hope the rest of you are as insulted as I am by that statement. Contrary to MacArthur's personal opinion of our intelligence, there happens to be an extraordinarily high number of educated, intelligent people in this town who are registered to vote. Should the Steamboat 700 issue be brought to a vote of the citizens, we are perfectly capable of looking at the issues beyond either of the "lock the gate behind me" or "growth at any cost" narrow views. We are capable of analyzing the pros and cons of the proposed annexation and making a decision whether we believe it's in the community's long-term best interest to proceed with the annexation or not.
What irritates me most is that MacArthur and another vocal advocate who is constantly blogging in support of the Steamboat 700 annexation are paving and excavation contractors who stand to profit immensely from this potential development. Should the annexation pass and the development proceeds, I fully support their potential to profit and hopefully employ local resident workers for many years in the future. But please don't insult the residents and voters by implying that we don't have the capability to make an informed decision on this issue should it come to a vote.
J Michael Turner
Steamboat Springs
Comments
freerider 3 years, 7 months ago
Good article ...Ed MacArthur motivated simply by greed...As transparent as glass. I also found the pilot article supporting it to be insulting as well ... suggesting there is no traffic issue . This needs to be put to a vote by the community . Bring on the petition
addlip2U 3 years, 7 months ago
Good article indeed. Thank you Michael for expressing my thoughts too.
seminative 3 years, 7 months ago
Well said, Michael. I am still looking for a place to sign a petition to get this issue on the ballot. I was also insulted by MacArthurs comment that we are not smart enough to make this decision. I certainly am smart enough to understand why some City Council members, the School Board and some County Commissioners see advantages for approval of this project. However, what is the plan for dealing with the traffic issues entering Steamboat from the west? This has been a known projected problem for the future since I moved here 3 decades ago. Well, the future is here and a plan needs to be in place BEFORE annexation of this property.
Scott Ford 3 years, 7 months ago
Michael - We all say things, sometimes in frustration, that we wish we could have phrased differently. Ed does not think that the voters are "stupid" nor do I think his comments were motivated solely by his own financial interest. Ed simply likes to get things done. As the chair of the Yampa Valley Housing Authority - Ed understands the challenges associated with "affordable/attainable" housing better than most. He has spent countless hours developing and discussing strategies, arm wrestling with the city over the use of Payment in Leu funds, trying to focus on what can be done pragmatically, etc.
If, and this is a very BIG IF, a public vote were to occur, there will be some folks that will vote without giving the issues associated with the annexation too much thought. If one is a pragmatist, this process is frustrating. What we all heard in Ed's comments to City Council was a little bit of his frustration showing. Nothing more and nothing less; there is no hidden agenda.
freerider 3 years, 7 months ago
Scott As you see , these posts reflect reality . Ed said exactly what he was thinking by calling the voters stupid . You and the rest of the 700 farce cheerleaders need to get real about this. This develoment is completely upsidedown in regards to the traffic issue. The city council has even said they don't have an answer for it. If the developers and city council would put the horse in front of the cart maybe I would support it .The highway needs to be fixed first. Stop insulting us. And there will be a petition I guarantee it.
Tubes 3 years, 7 months ago
freerider, quote me chapter and verse where he says voters are "stupid."
Scott Ford 3 years, 7 months ago
Hi Freerider- Wow - to date nobody has attributed to me of "cheerleading" support for SB700. I am sure that there are several that will get a chuckle out of that characterization. What I may not have done a good job of is expressing that the phrasing of Ed's comments that evening were driven more from a frustration with the situation/process than an egotistical perspective or blind financial self interest.
I do not know Ed well, however, I am not afraid to say I have a lot of respect for him. I have seen him in leadership roles which he approaches with a sense of stewardship toward this community. He does not need me to come to his defense. Simply stated, the characterization of him in the editorial was unfair.
Although it is tempting to characterize people - at the end of the day we must not forget we remain neighbors to each other in this community. It is OK to disagree and we should. Debate at all levels should be welcomed. An honest debate helps make us all smarter and better decisions are usually made. However, when the debate turns to personal characterizations this often leads to unnecessary divisiveness which serves no purpose.
I will do my best to insist on civility in our dealings with each other whether we agree or disagree. I do not think this insistence on civility is a losing battle. I think it is simply an expectation we set for each other. It is an expectation that will serve this community very well. If we only respect those that we agree with or they with us, in time we could easily become lonely isolated islands of opinion. I hope that nobody wants that.
steamboatsprings 3 years, 7 months ago
Well said Scott. You record speaks for it self. Few have contributed as much of their time and efforts into great community causes and donations than the MacArthurs. I think that he has earned his stripes as someone who thinks of what is best for the community. Ed and June are both practical and extremely hard working. These qualities and other unrelated to Steamboat 700 will help them remain successful both in the causes they spend time on and in business either way.
Tubes 3 years, 7 months ago
Resident Ed MacArthur cautioned council against putting the decision to a vote and said the majority of city residents won't do the research necessary to say whether the complex development is a good idea. MacArthur, who is president of the Yampa Valley Housing Authority, urged council to support the project.
"Nothing in life will ever be perfect, but this is a good plan," MacArthur said. "We won't be a community if we don't have places to go in the future."
The above is the Pilot's summary of MacArthur's message and his quote from the Sep 30 article.
Where, exactly, does he say "you are not smart enough" to weigh in on this? Why are you putting words in his mouth? Why are twisting and manipulating what he said? He did not say this or come anywhere even close to this.
And you are "insulted by this statement?" Are you kidding me! What a laugh. He is one of the most upstanding dudes this valley has seen and your trying to make him look like a jerk. Unbelievable! And even more unbelievalble this editorial made it to print.
What he is saying is that council has spent dozens of hours over the last couple years wading through hunderds, if not thousands of pages of documents relative to this development and annexation. And chances are, very, very few people have taken the time to fully understand this thing. Not that you're not smart enough, but that you haven't, nor won't, take the time. Which is exactly why this should not go to a vote. Right on, Ed!
Nice try J Michael Turner. You should be required to explain yourself for writing this garbage. That is, if your feeling aren't too hurt.
Tubes 3 years, 7 months ago
no one is bashing michael. his editortial is being bashed because it's way over the line, totally unsubstantiated and fabricated, and completly untrue. macarthur simply did not say what this guys says he did. and obviously JMT didn't even read the sep 30 article, or he would have never wrote this.
i understand this guy is not even a full-time resident, so who is "us?"
AGM 3 years, 7 months ago
I completely agree with Tubes.
This is one of the worst letters to the editor I've ever read. J. Michael Turner, you are the one that is being insulting here. What on earth prompted you to throw Ed under the bus? Talk about making up your own meaning to a story - this is classic.
Ed is correct - this plan has been 20 years in the making and the VAST majority of Steamboat residents haven't read the WSSAP and many have no idea what is in it and some have no idea it even exists. This isn't calling residents stupid. It is fact. Go ask them. I'd be curious to know if you've read the 80+ pages of this document.
The time and energy that this community has poured into this planning process for 20+ years is being ignored by an awful lot of people these days. This has been a community project for all of these years, not to mention the countless hours put in by staff, council and consultants during these past 2 years.
Shame on you, J. Michael Turner.
Scott Ford 3 years, 7 months ago
Hi All - Michael is a good guy. Opinionated to be sure, however, who among us in this blog exchange is not? Kudos to Michael for having the courage to write an editorial and sign his name to it. OK, there are those that disagree with Michael's assessment of what was said. Got it! We have permission to disagree. Go it! However, there is no need to begin bashing on Michael. This serves no purpose whatsoever.
The core question is that if the annexation agreement is put to a vote (BIG IF), are the voters of Steamboat Springs up to the task of making an informed decision? This should be the question we direct our blog responses to in the current exchange.
I think the local voter will make an informed decision. It will be critical that parties on both sides of the issue focus on synthesize the core issues.
Scott Ford 3 years, 7 months ago
I think Michael lives here full time. He does belong to the group associated with the residential life/style economy I have referenced before. Agree or disagree with Michael's assessment described in his editorial I think we got it. Enough said.
I would like us to turn our focus to the underlying overarching question - "Are the voters of Steamboat Springs up to the task of making an informed decision about the annexation agreement if (Big IF) it makes it to a public vote? I think they are. There are those that think the vote will be emotional vs. thoughtfully based only on one or two hot-buttons. The challenge is going to be to synthesize the key issues. What do those participating in this blog exchange think the core issues are? For me it is not traffic.
Amy Harris 3 years, 7 months ago
I agree 100% with Tubes. There is no one in this town with more personal integrity than Ed MacArthur. Michael Turner's untrue statements are highly inflammatory and therefore deserve a response. Ed is right in saying that some people do not take the time to research the issues before voting. Ignorance is not always the same thing as stupidity...
Scott Ford 3 years, 7 months ago
Amy - I think enough has been said about either Ed or Michael. Not much more can be said that is not a repeat. I realize that I likely will be unsuccessful in turning the focus of this discussion but I am going to give it one more try.
Although said in the context of supporting the need for public education, Thomas Jefferson's words have great application to what we are discussing - "An enlightened citizenry is indispensable for the proper functioning of a republic. Self-government is not possible unless the citizens are educated sufficiently to enable them to exercise oversight."
Are there a sufficient number of people that have the ability and will take the time to learn enough to make an informed decision about the proposed annexation agreement if (Big IF) it is placed on the ballot?
I think so. Others are not so sure. I would like to hear from them and as to why. Let's start with you -What do you think? Do we know enough to make an informed decision? If not, what do we need to know?
Amy Harris 3 years, 7 months ago
I think the question is not what people know or need to know, but instead is whether people will make the effort to educate themselves on this or any other important topic on which they are voting. I believe that the vast majority of people have the ability to make an informed decision, but I wonder how many are motivated to really study an issue before casting a ballot.
jk 3 years, 7 months ago
Here is the current motivation most people will take into consideration, Available jobs in the paper today= 27 The need for 2,000 more houses=0 I guess that is being narrow minded with no concept of the possible future, but come on another smaller venture is already feeling the ripples of our economy.
jody patten 3 years, 7 months ago
I live on parcel of land contiguous to the city of Steamboat Springs. I am on city water and sewer, but I'm technically in Routt County. Lucky for me; because, when I built my home five years ago, I paid much less in tap fees to Routt County than I would have had my home been located in the city of Steamboat Springs. So, when the city eventually votes in a property tax (how long can we really survive on a sales tax alone?), they will also get nothing from me. The price I pay for not living in the city? No vote in city council elections, and believe me, I'd love to vote in this one. So, how does this relate back to Steamboat 700? Simple: if we do not annex that property, multiply my situation by hundreds, if not thousands of new residents. Because eventually someone will buy the land, and parcel it out in some easier fashion, with much less if any affordable/attainable housing. Since it will be outside city limits, what will Steamboat get for its growing pains? Likely nothing: not a widening of US40 to 4 lanes at no cost to taxpayers, not a new school, fire station, water/sewer treatment facility, parks & rec maintenance facility, not new ballfields, miles of new public trails and parks, maybe nothing public at all. Think Maribou. Make sense? An annexation vote enables planners and developers to keep visioning for our continued measured, carefully planned economic growth. If the economy eventually recovers, then each part of the development will go through the approval process. If patterns over the last several decades hold, we'll continue to see the values of existing homes in Old Town and the mountain go up, meaning more of us will sell as our property taxes become unaffordable for us as retirees; thus, more of us will be looking for "affordable" or "attainable" housing. Where? I don't want to commute to Stagecoach, Oak Creek, Hayden or Craig. I'd like to sell my home near town for a nice profit to help fund my kids' college, and move to a slightly more affordable smaller home in a close-in community accessible by bus or bike. Without this annexation, I can count on my taxes eventually being raised to pay for a government-funded widening of US40, another bond measure to pay for what's already a much-needed school on the west end, a police/fire station there, and I still won't have a solution to the bottleneck of traffic at 13th. That's a problem "can" that's been kicked down the road by every council over the last 30 years. Hey folks, it's not a priority for the state (which sees it as a local issue); and, obviously, not for city government, so who's going to pay for the fix? I wouldn't bet on the city or county, who are slashing budgets everywhere they can.
Kevin Nerney 3 years, 7 months ago
Scott-- I think that part of the problem with becoming informed wether it is SB700 or the Presidential election is two fold. One is trying to get unbiased information and the other is the reading comprehension of the person trying to become informed. I'm not saying people are stupid but not everyone gets a 1600 on their SAT's. There is a reason people hire lawyers in order to close on their house. Someone needs to interpret what is in all those documents. Same thing with SB700,at 665 pages information that gets reduced to a few talking points can be slanted in any direction the writer choses. Good bad or otherwise it seems this and other discussions on SB700 seem moot since the vote was last night and it passed. Time to move on
ElevenFootPole 3 years, 7 months ago
Whatever. Shut it down in referendum. This resort town really only needs 5star hotels, resort style condos and trophy homes masquerading as old west ranches. We obviously want only the image of a town, not a real town. So shut it down, and quit freaking pretending you want community character & affordable housing. What we want is money to come to this town and fix it all up like a movie set so we all feel like we've made it big - part of the elite. Shuttle our people-props in from shanty town before the sun comes up then shuttle 'em back out when we turn the lights off. We want to be Somebody and the only way to be Somebody is to get rid of the Nobodies. Good job Cari. Vote in favor of piling a ton of costs on new non-elitist middle-class development so you can then deny it on the grounds that it's now too expensive to target the middle-class market. What a strategy.
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