Lisa Baker: Planned Parenthood is not the answer

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There are two sides to every coin. Unfortunately, Planned Parenthood is notorious for showing only the one side of the coin and pretending that the other doesn't exist.

In Aimee Quadri's letter to the editor in the July 8 issue of the Steamboat Today, we see just that. Frankly, I'm tired of the public being subjected to the unending stream of Planned Parenthood's tempting promises of how it will save the masses through contraception and affordable reproductive health care.

The fact is that Planned Parenthood is a front for abortion. The latest polls show that the majority of American citizens believe that abortion is murder. And the fact is that taxes from that majority are going to support this organization that feeds scared and hormonal pregnant women the lie that somehow abortion is a quick fix for their "problem." The prevailing wisdom these days is to stop having children and all will be well. Because our government officially has bequeathed a hefty national debt to our children, perhaps we shouldn't be eradicating our future generations before they get a chance to foot the bill for this financial crisis that Quadri cites as the reason to visit Planned Parenthood.

Why doesn't Planned Parenthood tell their clients the facts? You never see the word "abortion" in their ads. It's cleverly disguised under "and more" on their list of services. And there is no disclaimer in their ads about how abortion gravely affects the emotional state of every woman who has had one performed, how most every woman at some point in her life regrets choosing abortion (including Roe, of Roe v. Wade, who now is a pro-life spokesperson), or how statistically, married couples who use contraception have a much greater probability of ending in divorce than couples who practice natural family planning.

Natural family planning has a 100 percent effectiveness rate if used properly. In this method, there is no need for women to add harmful hormones to their bodies through contraceptive pills, which list more horrifying side effects than one can count. Families can plan and coordinate their births through tracking the woman's fertility signs. What woman couldn't benefit from knowing more about how her body actually works? It was a real eye-opener for me. And why is it that so many women will buy hormone-free organic milks and chemical-free produce but then turn around and fill their bodies with contraceptive hormones that have far worse effects on their bodies and minds?

Crisis pregnancy centers across the country provide counseling for those who have chosen abortion, guidance on how to get maternity care, and how to apply for support from Medicare, Medicaid and S.C.H.I.P. Right here in Steamboat Springs, there is the Pregnancy Resource Center, which provides maternity and baby clothing, baby care supplies, counseling and ultrasounds for women considering abortion. All of these services are provided without the help of our tax dollars. I am in no way affiliated with the Pregnancy Resource Center, but I would like to see organizations like it succeed and grow through the much-needed support of the community. And, more than anything, I would like to see Planned Parenthood exposed for what it truly is.

Lisa Baker

Steamboat Springs

Comments

thalgard 5 years, 1 month ago

Do you know what you call a couple who practices "natural family planning"? Parents!

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stillinsteamboat 5 years, 1 month ago

WTH Pilot. You would never let anyone with a pro abortion stance write such a venom laced letter. This is the kind of hatred that causes right wing whack jobs to go to churches and places of business and kill people. (but it isn't considered murder by the religious right.) I understand your passion Lisa but your delivery SUCKS! Pilot shame on you. I'll have to remember next time I have an agenda I'll take it to the Pilot for publication. Betcha it doesn't get published the way this did.

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jk 5 years, 1 month ago

I must agree Brent, it is unbelievable you printed this. Your political agenda is showing again.

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thalgard 5 years, 1 month ago

The Catholic Church, one of reproductive right's biggest opponents, has been protecting the pedophiles in its ranks for millenia, what great family values this institution represents!

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inmyopinion 5 years, 1 month ago

I have read and reread this editorial and I don't quite understand Ms. Baker's intent. Is it your wish Ms. Baker to see the word "abortion" in printed advertisements?

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

That's because you can only write a hit job letter attacking people for their right to free speech. What is wrong with the pro life, or, the real life side of things. This woman is advocating truth and honesty to young women in an emotionally dire moment of life. Not spoon feeding it down their throats like the pro death side always does. Lisa Baker's statement, "And there is no disclaimer in their ads about how abortion gravely affects the emotional state of every woman who has had one performed, how most every woman at some point in her life regrets choosing abortion (including Roe, of Roe v. Wade, who now is a pro-life" is a fact. Someone I have known all my life had an abortion at age 17 and confided in me her sadness years later, as if she ended the life of her child. What Lisa Baker is saying is to allow these young women the dignity of the whole story, you know, the one about the future emotional price of an abortion. But why not write your story, the Pilot loves that stuff. We get Maureen Dowd every day or so.

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beverly lemons 5 years, 1 month ago

Seems to me the best deterent to abortion is effective birth control, and nfp isn't. Years ago, I was the director of a pro life crisis center. It was not our policy to bad mouth other organizations, guilt trip our clients, or lie to them, as this poster is doing. Abstinense only and other religiously based ideas have proven to increase pregnancy and std rates. Having an abortion can be difficult on a woman, but so can having an unwanted child, especially when its a product of rape, incest, or a non viable fetus. In my youth, I was rather black and white about abortion, but age and wisdom mellowed me to respect that people know best for themselves when they should not have an unwanted child. I would prefer the pilot not post baseless rhetoric like this. If you want to effect something useful, post articles about how many pregnancies have been prevented by contraception that planned parenthood and other providers dispense.

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knee_dropper 5 years, 1 month ago

What a crock, maybe if the Pregnancy Resource Center provided services the community needs, it would receive the support of it. "Natural family planning has a 100 percent effectiveness rate if used properly." Where exactly did you pull this "fact" from Lisa, nothing is 100 percent effective, the closest thing is probably the pil or the old-fashioned condom. Funny how that contraceptive doesn't get mentioned, it's cheap and effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Just look at how well natural family planning worked in Sarah Palin's family if you want proof of how well abstinence only or nfp.

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JLM 5 years, 1 month ago

Wow, what a vitriolic reaction to a perfectly reasonable expression of some very clear and fact based simple logic.

The simple truth of the matter is that Planned Parenthood is an active and zealous advocate of abortion while attempting to put up a front which seeks to be perceived as balanced and reasonable.

We will undoubtedly look back on the issue of abortion from some future vantage point with disgust and discomfiture as we have with many social issues --- slavery, women's suffrage.

Abortion is a barbaric and savage action which is unworthy of a civilized society. Abortion is murder. The time of choice is before conception. The actions after conception are simply consequences of that choice.

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flower 5 years, 1 month ago

I never want to see another baby or child abused, starved, unwanted and unloved. no abortion=unwanted babies.
Lisa, How many unwanted babies have you adopted?

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Fred Duckels 5 years, 1 month ago

You lefties need to learn that Brent is not going to cave in, to your agenda to remove anything, that you do not agree with. It seems that the left falls into the habitually offended category, and are always screaming for censure, except for any filth that they deem appropriate. Mallard Filmore has been a burr under their saddles for a long time.

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

LTFO, No one said your buddy Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 but he is responsible for aiding and abetting terrorists, including those who were involved with 9/11. It has been obvious for years that the lefties are sympathetic to the murdering thug Saddam Hussien while believing all propaganda about George Bush.

http://www.husseinandterror.com/ http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/06/saddams_wmd_discovery_and_deni.html

If you read the stuff in Deroy Murdocks piece you will see evidence of payments by Saddam Hussein to the families of the Palestinian suicide bombers, so why would Hussien not have similarly aided the 9/11 attackers. Well Laurie Mylroie thinks so. http://lauriemylroie.com/

So I will go with that over the moveon koolaid crowd all day.

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Martha D Young 5 years, 1 month ago

JLM: How often have you been a patient at Planned Parenthood? Annual exams, birth control and cancer screenings are among the offerings of this worthwhile organization, at affordable rates, or for free. In addition I would like to know what "facts" support the assertion that every woman who has undergone the termination of a wanted or unwanted pregnancy has regretted it afterwards. We are in the midst of a knee-jerk backlash against women's right to choose. If you don't agree with a woman's right to choose, don't terminate your pregnancy!

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upstream 5 years, 1 month ago

Seriously Lisa...Planned Parenthood in SBS provides many of us our "woman's healthcare" and I would wager to say many, if not most, of us have not been there to have an abortion. Have your buddies down @ the pregnanacy resource center ever diagnosed, treated and followed up a case of early cervical cancer or helped a young woman get the mammogram she needed to diagnose an early breast cancer after she found a lump? If it were not for Planned Parenthood many, many such cases would go undetected. This is a great organization that has always provided me access to the healthcare I needed regardless of my ability to pay. I first started to get my annual exams there when I was an impoverished student and scraped the bottom of the sliding scale. Now I pay full price, because I can. The quality of the care has always been top notch and, most importantly, accessible. I could not disagree more with your characterization of this organization.

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JLM 5 years, 1 month ago

I am a huge supporter of a woman's (and a man's) right to choose --- whether to conceive a child. That is the only truly important decision that is made. All that flows from that decision are known as "consequences". You cannot unring a bell and once a child is conceived the choice has been made.

There is no doubt that Planned Parenthood provides a wealth of worthwhile and laudatory services --- absolutely no question about this at all. For this I applaud them wholeheartedly and completely. I know this from first hand knowledge having been solicited to serve on their board several times.

Unfortunately, they also provide access to abortion on demand. I also know this from first hand knowledge. I cannot support an organization which is an enabler of murder.

Again, we will look back on this portion of our Nation's history and understand that our approach to family planning --- unfettered access to abortion on demand --- was a barbaric chapter much like slavery and woman's suffrage.

It is incomprehensible to me that a Nation which reveres life and which opposes the death penalty for felons could champion killing innocent children. Incomprehensible!

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eneill 5 years, 1 month ago

Once again another attack on Planned Parenthood, shame on You Ms. Baker! Your letter is all about you and your fears, not facts. Stop forcing your opinions and religious mantra on people who actually have common sense and use their brain and not propaganda to promote their cause.

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1999 5 years, 1 month ago

I had been getting my annual exams at planned parenthood in SBS for years when I thought I might be pregnant. I was a single woman in a new relationship.

I went to PP for a pregnancy test which of course was positive...

my head spinning they ( a counselor and nurse) quite simply asked me if i was leaning in any direction. having the baby, adoption or abortion.

I said..." I think I want to keep it. I can do it"

they both beemed and smiled and hugged me and said "congratulations!!!"

then they went over some important health concerns to start working on imediately and suggested a doctor.

Does that reaction from them sound like the abortion pushers ms baker portrays?

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Duke_bets 5 years, 1 month ago

To Fred and seeuski - Can either of you read? Your every thought is persuaded by your political agenda. Sad that you can't think for yourselves and obviously know absolutely nothing about planned parenthood.

Lisa Baker........Shame on you! Where are these polls you speak of? Talking amongst Republican Catholics doesn't count!

Pilot..........Shame on you!

Allowing and outright worded attack on Planned Parenthood. Wow! They provide a needed service for women throughout the United States. They provide annual exams and help to detect cancer.

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housepoor 5 years, 1 month ago

fanatic: a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

Synonyms: 1. zealot, bigot, hothead, militant. Fanatic, zealot, militant, Fanatic and zealot both suggest excessive or overweening devotion to a cause or belief. Fanatic further implies unbalanced or obsessive behavior: a wild-eyed fanatic. Zealot, only slightly less unfavorable in implication than fanatic, implies single-minded partisanship: a tireless zealot for tax reform. Militant stresses vigorous, aggressive support for or opposition to a plan or ideal and suggests a combative stance.

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

Dukey, I try not to read your dribble as you never post an opinion or response to anything other than personal attacks against your opposition. It got old a long time ago. And as for the Pilot, I believe they do a reasonable job of printing letters from both sides of the local community but, are falling off the left coast with the total left wing mania from the National opinions of the Dowd crew.

While the author is obviously a pro life person she is expressing her right to free speech and my post indicates a personal experience with this issue with someone who has been very dear to me all my life. I am not for overturning roe v wade, but am against the sport of abortion as a right at any time during pregnancy as practiced by the likes of the late term abortionist Tiller. As expressed by others on your side here, I believe abortion should be legal and rare but honest emotional guidance should be afforded to young women about all remedies before the act. Either way, this has been one of the most difficult issues of our time, especially for those like myself, who are "not" of the religious right. My opinions on this topic were the same when I was a registered Democrat as they are today.

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Duke_bets 5 years, 1 month ago

seeuski - Saying 'sport' and bringing up Tiller............Really? Then, you support legal and rare? Which is it? Tiller was what you support on the subject and yet you condemn a man that was murdered.

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

I absolutely do not support him and I did not kill him. Late term partial birth abortions for no health reasons are disgusting and I would question the saneness of anyone who feels otherwise.

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

If you can't see from that post that I was targeting Tillers services as unreasonable and mostly unnecessary then there isn't much I can do for you.

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knee_dropper 5 years, 1 month ago

What has gone unanswered from the pro-lifers out there is Lisa's stance against contraceptives, the pill in particular. What she conveniently doesn't mention are condoms, which prevent pregnancy and STD's. A whole lot more effectively than the "natural family planning" method, which she claims is 100% effective. So can you tell me where exactly you found that? What you seem to be against is any kind of birth control is general with your statement that "statistically, married couples who use contraception have a much greater probability of ending in divorce than couples who practice natural family planning." Do you also know that they dispense condoms there? Let me guess, not as goo as nfp, huh. I'll say it again, if nfp is such a great idea, why didn't it work for someone who continually espouses this junk such as Sarah Palin? My own opinion in this matter is that most of the anti-choice people only really care about these babies that they are trying to save until they're actually born; then it's up to the dead-beat parent to take care of them.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 1 month ago

flotilla- That's pretty telling, actually. Even FOX's / Dynamic poll reflects about half and half. In fact, some dates show the Pro-Choice over 50% while nothing in the Pro-Life is was above 49%.

Personally, I don't want anything to do with abortion but it's not MY choice that matters, being a male.

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MrTaiChi 5 years, 1 month ago

This argument, as it has evolved in this thread, can't be won as this is a subject framed by one's moral values, which, if deeply held, are never susceptible to someone else's logic or arguments. I am conservative on most social issues, but have felt my entire life that a woman should have ablsolute control of her own body. Government has no right to intervene to force a woman to carry to term an unwanted pregnancy. She may come from a religious tradition that never held funerals for miscarried foetuses. Except for prostitutes and imbeciles, an abortion must be a profoundly upsetting event for any woman.

The companion issue here, however, is whether the editor should have censored the contribution of the writer. It is curious how many of you are fearful of ideas that run counter to your world view. Where were you when they taught in high school about the importance to our continued liberty of fee speech and a free press? Was that the period on your class schedule devoted to self esteem or outcome based education? Maybe you got your degree from one of those campuses where shoutiing down conservatives was justified because such speech is just too wrong. Those with a lock on the truth first silence the critics, then they burn books and then burn people.

I disagree with the woman, but came away with one useful thought from her article, that it is ironic that the Birkenstock set buys hormone free beef, but daily takes a birth control pill made out hormones derived from horse urine. I might add that the looney Greens at the same time are peeing out estrogen that has affected fish and amphibians adversely. My wife used a diaphram.

In matters of morals, its best to listen politely. In matters of editorial policy, if you don't like the editor's judgment, start your own paper.

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Duke_bets 5 years, 1 month ago

seeuski - I would bet that you had never heard of Tiller until a couple of weeks ago. You post political propaganda and that is it. You questioned sanity and yet cited abortion as a sport??????

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chrisstefanick 5 years, 1 month ago

I just can't believe the responses this got. Amazing.

I try to assume that pro-aborts are reasonable people but when I read some of these comments - the cruel name calling, saying LM's article is "venomous" rather than making an intelligent response to some excellent points, saying Catholics support pedophilia, calling pro-lifers murderers (even though they so loudly condemned the killing of Tiller by one wack job), and dismissing LM's points without feeling the need to look into them:all I can think is that these people are just as blindly dogmatic and intolerant as the Taliban - & that if it were legal for them to forcibly silence people like LM they'd do so.
Certainly they'd like to silence the Pilot rather than letting it carry ideas that go against their own. How many times was the phrase "shame on you" used in reference to the Pilot? If we can't use the paper as a forum for dialogue - what is it for? Are you people capable of intelligent dialogue?

When something goes against your social dogmas - apparently not.

I'm strongly pro-life, but I can at least respect my opponents, see their points, and make intelligent responses to them:

...and they called this article "venomous" the Irony!

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stillinsteamboat 5 years, 1 month ago

I'll bet Mrs. Baker has never stepped foot in a Planned Parenthood. Contrary to what she might think, the first question they ask when you walk in the door isn't "would you like and abortion today?")

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Duke_bets 5 years, 1 month ago

chris - 'The fact is that Planned Parenthood is a front for abortion'. That is what the letter states in the first sentence of the 3rd paragraph. This really has nothing to do with social dogmas. The fact is that statement is totally false. Talk about irony!

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bandmama 5 years, 1 month ago

Ms Baker- I wonder if your views would stay this closed minded if you had a young daughter, who was raped? Would you honestly force a child to live with that stigma? What if YOU were? Lets say that you already have a child and find yourself pregnant....(while on birth control) and that pregnancy most certainly would kill you. Would you leave the child already here on earth, motherless? So many If's and's or but's. A good reason to leave such a decision to the individual By the way, I also have been a patient at P.P. I have never had abortion thrown in my face in any way shape or form. They were nothing but professional and caring.

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

Dukey, You have many assumptions about what others know. Take away the umptions from the word and that is what happens from whence you come. I guess I should check in with you from now on before making my views on life since you are calling for censorship of opinions by the pilot and you can refer to my source material as propaganda but that is only because you have no defense against the truth. The Saul Alinsky tactics you incorporate are well known at this point and are not so effective.

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lithamarie 5 years, 1 month ago

There was a time in our nation's history that people were considered extremists as well. They were those who sided with the "whack-os" who believed that the enslavement of black men, women, and children was considered morally wrong. Our country found itself so divided on this issue that it erupted into civil war. Today, we look with disdain and humiliation at that time of our history in which people actually fought for the right to own human beings as property. In the 1940s, we fought and lost many human lives to stop a madman who thought that he had the "right" to capture and murder millions of people because they were Jewish. This man is considered one of the most deplorable human beings to ever live. We ended his holocaust and applauded ourselves. Yet, here we sit today. Less than a century following that horrible time. And...we have a far worse holocaust on our nation's hands. We have become the evil that we strove to destroy. People get up in arms about the Iraq war and the few thousand soldiers that we lost. And yet, combine all the wars that the US has ever fought, and the soldiers lost will never add up to the number of children aborted every year by our country. Over 3000 children are murdered every day. Where is the outrage? Where did our nation's integrity and moral compass go? This is not a matter of one's right to choose. Something is not a "right" if it violate's those of another. At least in the case of slavery, those people were granted the most basic of human rights: the right to LIFE. Is that not one of the principles of our country? LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness??? In that order as well. If you met someone who gave money to the poor, helped the imprisoned, clothed the naked, but then turned around and killed innocent children on the street, you would not praise that person as a philanthropist and say "what wonderful services you perform!!!" No, you'd consider that person a psychopath and not rest until he was imprisoned. And yet, here is Planned Parenthood, an organization that, yes, does offer some good services. BUT...also offers MURDER!!! Does the good that they do erase that?? NO! If an unborn child is not a child, then what is it??? To all of you posting this, you should be thankful that you were not snuffed out through a method of torture that our Speaker of the House would never permit as a form of torture for terrorists, but is used to rip apart a human being in what should be the safest place in the universe. Remember, those that defend evil are part of the evil itself.

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Duke_bets 5 years, 1 month ago

seeuski - It is pointless to debate with you. Every time you're wrong or called out, you change the subject. I wasn't calling for censorship of opinion. Baker claimed facts and lies. Neither of which is true.

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lithamarie 5 years, 1 month ago

Bandmama, combating evil with evil doesn't make it right. So, we should punish the child because the mother is raped? Come on! People use these sad, tired arguments over and over to justify abortion. But, the fact is that most abortions aren't from such situations. And yes, I would gladly lay down my life for a child. I have one. And I would do anything to give him life. Even give up mine. That is called love. Something of which our country is in short supply. I have to assume that if this child was conceived, there was a reason behind it. Perhaps the child that comes from rape will have the answer to curing AIDS, or perhaps he is what the mother needs to heal from her horrendous experience. Who is to say that the life of that child is less important than that of the mother or anyone else? Open your heart and think with a conscience, not with self-serving intentions. "It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."--Mother Teresa

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

Dukey, Is there a right or a wrong in this argument about abortion, or is it contrasting moral values and beliefs of when life begins? Who determines who is right here?

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bandmama 5 years, 1 month ago

lithamarie- let me get this straight, you claim to love your child, yet you would knowingly leave him motherless for another unborn life. Hmmm....why dont you love the first child enough to stay alive for them? Sort of like playing God, huh? Choosing which child deserves a mother. And no, you would not be punishing the child, you would be choosing the lesser of two evils. And by your method of reasoning, that same child could also grow up to be another rapist, murderer or pathetic waste of life so, no I would not subject the girl to that lesson in life. And yes, these are tired arguements, but a choice just the same, again, it is up to the individual to make this choice, not you.

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thalgard 5 years, 1 month ago

lithamarie...the catholic church did protect hundreds of priests accused and convicted of molesting children. In Ireland, state sponsored catholic schools condoned through inaction the molestation and abuse of thousands of children. The catholic church has aided greatly the spread of AIDs, especially in Africa, by its prohibition of condoms. The catholic church is responsible for the annihilation of native cultures all over the world, and stood by silently while hitler murdered millions of Jews during WWII. Your beloved papacy has been looting the wolrld for millennia!

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trump_suit 5 years, 1 month ago

I think that seeuski summed up my beliefs on this matter best when he/she wrote:

"I am not for overturning roe v wade, but am against the sport of abortion as a right at any time during pregnancy as practiced by the likes of the late term abortionist Tiller. As expressed by others on your side here, I believe abortion should be legal and rare but honest emotional guidance should be afforded to young women about all remedies before the act."

What I do not like is the drumbeat to "Murder" from the right side of this argument. While you may not agree with the policy, I would liken your approach to shouting "Fire" in a crowded nightclub. It is inflammnatory and un-necessary.

From the Left we hear that any restriction or oversight is wrong. How can this be when it is such a wrenching decision for anyone to have to make. Some restriction is clearly required, and involving family is good way to start.

Bottom line is that returning to the days of dark alleys and backroom abortions is not in anyones best interest. Both sides should work together trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies and finding homes for those children that need them. This endless argument is not helping the children that need it.

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bestfreeheel 5 years, 1 month ago

I'll paraphrase some favorite comedians/philosophers: Pro-Life is Anti-Woman. Simple as that. A 3-week-old zygote is not a human being, it's a bunch of congregated cells. You're not a human until you're in my phonebook. Ever notice how pro-life people look really unevolved? Eyes all close together, hairy wrists and backs. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. Let the party begin!

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MrTaiChi 5 years, 1 month ago

@ thalgard; I'm not Roman Catholic. I'm not sure what I am anymore, as I seem to be at a stage in life where my faith is waivering. Your rejoinder to the commentators would have been worthy of Oliver Cromwell in his time. If there is a God in heaven he must look on with dispair sometimes when he sees the things done in his name. Let's pause to remember what should be obvious. Notwithstanding the recurrent comments of LTFO here, organized religion has given us a moral construct that has enabled western civiliztion to progress to it's present stage, which, unless you are an absolute cynic, makes it a wonderful world in which to live.

The Spanish and Portuguese did destroy the civilizations of Mesoamerica, civilizations that were brutal in thier own right. What does that prove? The world then and after was a brutal place. In the seventeenth century, criminals in Russia were shackled to a huge wagon wheel and were broken, that is, their long bones were smashed by a sledge hammer. What does that say about the Russian Orthodox church today?

The clergy seems to be an attractive profession to the sub-cult of homosexuals who are attracted to adolescents. This is a phenomenon of all faiths. It's a raw observation that makes one uncomfortable. Criminal behavior should be punished. Churches and Temples are still the anchors that keep us from drifting too far away from the good in mankind. I want to believe. I want to believe that on some future Titanic that the men will gather at the bow and sing 'Nearer My God to Thee' when the women, children and cowards will take the life boats.

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thalgard 5 years, 1 month ago

Tai....I often respond to this thread in ways just to "get a rise" out of people, it's kind of a sport for me. I do realize that the catholic church does do some good, feeding the poor, housing the homeless, etc., but it is all under the guise of gathering more support. My disgust is with the religious (wrong) right, and all those who attempt to force their narrow world view on others. Organized religion, christians and muslims being the greatest offenders, need to perpetuate their respective hypocracy ad infitum in order to rationalize their existence. Christians and Muslims both actively seek to convert people, sometimes rather coercively, to their respective causes buy using lies and half truths based upon the selected writings of their so called prophets, people who were in fact probably quite mad themselves. Sexual repression as practiced by these faiths is a product of a patriarchal need to control the masses, specifically women and children, in order to control the next generations. In terms of reproductive choice, a fetus is a conglomeration of cells, like a wart, that(unlike a wart) has the potential to grow into a human being. Until the fetus is delivered it is part of a women's body, a parasite per se, and she should be free to do with it as she sees fit.

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JLM 5 years, 1 month ago

Like every commentary on "organized" religion --- is there such a thing as "disorganized" religion? --- the few obscure the work of the many. The many have done great work in our Nation. Far exceeding the wickedness of the few.

Having been educated in Catholic schools by priests, nuns and brothers, I can say with great certainty that the positive impact of their efforts on my life can never be fully repaid by me. The dedication they demonstrated on a daily basis was beyond any I have ever experienced in any other aspect of my life since.

I had the great fortune to be involved with some native Irish priests who came to this country with all of their cultural marking and breeding intact. I still laugh when I remember some of their behavior. They were real men and would just as soon cuff you as look at you. I desperately needed cuffing at that point in time.

I remember with great fondness Father O'Connor, our basketball coach, telling us that basketball was a very simple game --- "throw the damn ball through the hoop and go on about your business keeping the other fellas from throwing the ball into their damn hoop! What could be easier?"

I never saw even a glimmer of what became the huge issue of abuse in the Catholic church. I am absolutely sure it happened, mind you --- but I never saw even the slightest hint of such things.

The impact of religion on our lives does not have to be the orthodoxy of embracing each and every tenet of a particular religion but rather allowing each experience to mark us in a way that we can use that learning and wisdom to wrestle with our own problems and demons in a more informed manner.

As I have wandered from Catholic to Episcopal (kind of like "business casual" Catholicism) to S Baptist, I have begun to appreciate the value of a damn good sermon. I seem to need a quiet cool moment and a bit of direction which I find in a good sermon. I find myself drawn to a particular cleric who can preach a good sermon that I can understand and, more importantly, use in my life.

As to "warts' --- what a perfectly barbaric description of something which is a wonderful and beautiful miracle --- I pity your lack of humanity and your callousness not because I disagree totally with you but because you have cheated yourself of the appreciation of the wonder of life and man's responsibility to cherish and revere this gift. You diminish yourself by such language and I truly feel sorry for you. I also suspect you are not really that kind of person but just being provocative nonetheless, as Sister Anne de Beaupre would say: shame on you, young man!

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Duke_bets 5 years, 1 month ago

Those that are opposed to the services of Planned Parenthood most likely support 'babies having babies' and middle aged women having babies. Alright.........single parents and down syndrome is the result.

Sarah Palin ring a bell?

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flyguyrye 5 years, 1 month ago

Blastulas don't have heartbeats either---I am not pro-abortion

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oldskoolstmbt 5 years, 1 month ago

jlm~ you were one of the lucky ones....my family and i and about 10 friends i know are recovering catholics.....

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gas4765 5 years, 1 month ago

Being pro choice does not mean that you have to have an abortion, just the you have a choice. The social conservation want every embryo born but do not want the social programs to take care of the unfortunate. Might take some money out of their wallet. Seems anymore you are left or right what what happened to moderation.

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playa46 5 years, 1 month ago

Oh my God JLM, enough with your "incredible" life stories. We get it already, your life is perfect in every way and we should all look for a deeper meaning about your "work hard" everyday life.

Isn't it easy to post things about your life to people that you will never meet?

As for the argument, don't we all die someday? For all of us, it's how we go out. What happens in the end? Either we head for paradise, or we simple........cease to exists! Crazy, ain't it?

For all of you who say it's murder, get over yourselfs. Life goes on, others are born. It's fools like yourselves who need to wake up and see problems are everywhere, more people won't solve it.

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aichempty 5 years, 1 month ago

Playa,

Would you marry a woman who had an elective abortion for the purpose of birth control?

If she'll kill her child, what do you think she'll do if things don't work out according to her expectations with you?

I know from experience that a woman who will abandon her child will abandon her husband, and that a woman who will abandon her child will have an abortion without much of a second thought. Get to know your prospective mate well before you take the leap, and steer clear from anyone sociopathic enough to not feel a mother's remorse over the loss of her child.

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bandmama 5 years, 1 month ago

aich- ummmm....did I miss something in playa's post? I cant seem to see where they mentioned any intentions of getting married to a lady who may or may not have had an abortion... and although it sounds as if you had a very painful experience, not all women who have had an abortion abandon later children. I am sure you have some sort of data to back this up, besides your own sad past?

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stillinsteamboat 5 years, 1 month ago

I know women who have had an abortion. Sometime later became born again. Abortion was ok for them when they wanted one but now they have ridiculous bumper stickers on their cars and condemn women going through the same turmoil they once went through themselves. Doesn't the bible say "judge not"?

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aichempty 5 years, 1 month ago

Mama, and the rest of you,

I never said that abortion should be illegal. I know that women will get abortions, and that should not be a death sentence for them from a septic back-alley abortion. I know that some abortions are warranted, as with children of rape, those that are deformed (I call them failed miscarriages), and when a woman just can't handle any more burdens in her life.

When 75 cents spent at the gas station will prevent a conception, you have to wonder about the role that personal responsibility plays in all this.

The woman I wrote about was using contraception (the pill) but it failed and her husband told her to "get rid of it." Those were the exact words: "Get rid of it."

They were both some pretty poor excuses for human beings, and could easily have afforded to raise another child. The woman did have her tubes tied after her second abortion for the purpose of contraception was necessary.

My point was that people who will so easily wipe out the life of a healthy child they have conceived in the bounds of a so-called "committed" relationship don't turn out to make good prospects as potential spouses for others.

Playa was defending abortion as if it's like having your tonsils removed. It's not. There's no emotional bond with tonsils as far as I know. Humans are created/programmed/evolved to care for their children as a survival strategy, and when they kill their own kids something has gone seriously wrong in the brain department.

When rats eat their own young, it's because the litter has been threatened, and the mother is recovering the calories and nutrients that went into the litter. It's a survival strategy. It's one of the reasons why mammals survived and dinosaurs did not.

We are supposed to be a higher form of life. When a human being voluntarily takes the life of another, without moral justification (such as saving the life of the mother), it speaks volumes about the person performing the act.

Do you stop and offer a ride to a guy covered in blood, carrying a machete, hitchiking on US 40? Most would not. They'd consider the evidence and avoid potential harm. My point is only that the women I've known who had abortions were unstable and cared little about the harm they did to others along the way, and the ones who contemplated it and didn't carry through did so because of feelings of guilt. People who feel no guilt are dangerous to be around, so either take the warning or ignore it, but that doesn't change the truth.

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honestabe 5 years, 1 month ago

aich-"My point was that people who will so easily wipe out the life of a healthy child they have conceived in the bounds of a so-called "committed" relationship don't turn out to make good prospects as potential spouses for others." " My point is only that the women I've known who had abortions were unstable and cared little about the harm they did to others along the way, Yet they will make good parents? Having a child will make their lives right, and a happy, safe child/childhool? a lot of judging going on, eh aich? did god give you the key to judging otheres?

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KirryJ 5 years, 1 month ago

Some of you seem to be missing the point from the conservative perspective. We see abortion as murder b/c we believe all life should be respected and cherished at any stage. Newly conceived, young, middle aged, old, sick, disabled. All....no exceptions. Every life has something to offer and something that we each can learn from. It is not up to us to determine whose life is valuable and whose is not! Hence the aforementioned issues of slavery and the Jewish holocaust. No matter how complicated the circumstances the truth that life is life does not change. I realize there are some situations that make lots of hard gray area but nothing justifies killing one for the sake of another.

As for those who are skeptical about Natural family planning. I practice it and it has been successful for me. It is 100% effective b/c you chart your fertility then abstain when you are fertile. If you know some way I can get pregnant while abstaining you may want to contact the American Medical Association and alert them to your medical breakthrough about how to induce "immaculate conceptions".

For those of you who believe condoms are more effective at reducing unwanted pregnancies and STD's than abstinence....you are obviously not up to date on the lasted stats that even the World Health Organization has recognized. In Africa, countries that have thrown condoms at these issues have seen not impact on the situation. (Shocking considering condoms only have an 85-90% effectiveness.) Countries that have abstinence only programs have seen significant decreases. Funny how that works. Don't do it....don't get it. Seems pretty simple to me. The time for choice is BEFORE not after the fact.

For the person who believes choosing to let your unborn child die to save the life of the mother who would leave another motherless..... I see that the mother already has two children and so she would be giving her life for the life of her second child the same as if she gave her life for the life of her first. I do not see a distinction. What would it matter if the second was not born. Its still her child... born or not. Just because she hasn't seen it doesn't make it any less her child. That is such a shallow perspective.

I see all life as being connected and more than meets the eye. This is not simply a Christian philosophy. Almost all world cultures realize this. It seems only when a culture reaches a certain point of "advanced civilization" does it begin to see itself as righteous and superiorly intellectual enough to make such backwards decisions as these. "Pride always comes before the fall". Its funny how things in the world have gotten to the point where wrong is perceived as wright and wright as wrong. Where do we go from here?

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 1 month ago

KirryJ- IF you CAN abstain, it's 100% effective. IF. And yes- I believe all life is connected, but an unborn child is literally tied to ONLY it's mother's life. The male doesn't carry the child to term. The church doesn't carry that child, either, which is pretty telling since most Christian denominations (heck- most religions in total) have very few female pastors. If the woman doesn't want the child, it should ultimately be only her decision. Advice can come from anyone, though.

Again- I am personally against abortion but I'm not the one with the ability to have a child inside me.

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playa46 5 years, 1 month ago

Aich- Because you failed to even acknowledge my post, I'll try again:

Life goes on. While you try to get us to realize that every single life should be fulfilled because life is just so, darn great, life goes on. Death is such a normal part of life and you just won't see it.

For example, do you see animals freak over death? Survival of the fittest is the best way to put it, if your not fit, too bad. And that is sometimes the case in this world. It is so easy for you to simply say: the woman should have to baby, because it is not you who has to make that choice. You could argue that animals never actually get abortions and they never have to make that choice, but that's the point. The see death as something you have to go through. And sometimes, it is the only option.

I am not trying to be a downer, sure childbirth is great and is necessary to survive as a species. But to every thing that has ever lived, it is simple. Your born, you live, you die, repeat.

Could you also tell me where you got the information that women who get abortions tend to leave their husbands as well?

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stillinsteamboat 5 years, 1 month ago

Some have their rose colored glasses on. Abstinence takes self control, which is in short supply these days. I am not in favor of abortion used as birth control. Abstinence just doesn't work for most humans.

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aichempty 5 years, 1 month ago

Abe and Playa,

Well, gosh, where do I start? When a woman is willing to abandon her child and run away with the married man who fathered the child out of wedlock, leaving the child in the care of the grandmother who once attacked the mother with a scalpel in a medical office, does that sound normal at all?

Does the fact that the same woman (the mother of the child) abandoned her first husband to run away with the father of her child, married the father and then later left him after having two abortions, married again and abandoned the third husband, and is now on number four (last I heard) any indiciation of the underlying personality?

How about the women who drown their children in a lake in a car, or in the bath tub? Are they any different than a woman who has an elective abortion for contraception? Nope.

Playa, yeah, I know that everything dies. I feel like you do about it. The dead don't suffer. That doesn't make a difference for the person who did the killing. Some killing is warranted (self-defense, including executing murderers), and some is not. Then there's the middle ground where you know you're going to have a child that will be a sub-human imbecile all its life or suffer untold pain and emotional agony if it's born. Those are the mothers whose actions are justifiable, but it doesn't stop a lot of them from having lifelong guilt as a result.

I know some "professional mothers" who are the most useless people on Earth. They are the exact, and equally evil, counterpart of the women who abort children for convenience.

We're never going to solve these problems, never going to stop unwanted conception, and never going to prevent failed miscarriages (birth defects). We all have the choice, however, to live with the consequences of our actions and take moral responsibility for them.

In the end, this whole issue comes down to people having sex whenever they want, with whoever they want, and then disposing of the child that results. The 21st century has too many ways to avoid this problem in the first place, including the "morning after pill," and some day I hope we'll all get to the point that every girl has choices and knows the options to avoid pregnancy, and that every boy who fathers a child will be held responsible for supporting it. DNA analysis is a wonderful thing.

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Kevin Chapman 5 years, 1 month ago

So the right wingers are always talking about smaller government and less gov't control of our daily lives. Where does this issue stack up? It sounds to me as though, in the case of legal abortion, they welcome government control in this aspect of our lives as americans. Can i call you guys flip floppers?

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aichempty 5 years, 1 month ago

Nukster,

No, they make my toes hurt. A real sandal is much better.

Let's get rid of small claims court and bring back dueling. I think that's much better than government control, eh?

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bandmama 5 years, 1 month ago

Wow..... All this from an article beating up PP! I have to commend them for not adding a few comments of thier own. Oh yes, as far as abstinence? I have two nephews and a neice from THAT form of BC..... from a Catholic sister.....it worked really well for her!!!! KirryJ_ have to hand it to you, you are one heck of a WOman to be able to tell the world that you would die for your unborn child rather than having the guts to stay alive for the living breathing (outside of the womb unassisted) children you already may have. I am willing to bet that your kids would love to know that Mommie could/would die but Hey Look!!!! You get a really nifty new baby brother or sister that they can spend time telling the youngster what a great Mom your were, to bad they just have memories......if they are old enough to gather a few. But man are you brave!!!!!!!

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KirryJ 5 years, 1 month ago

Bandmama,

It has been said "there is no greater love than to lay down your life for a friend". I would gladly lay down my life for my child. Would I be scared and sad to leave my family behind ... absolutely. But...it is the ultimate act of unselfishness and love and an example I would be honored to set for my children. The right thing to do isn't always the easy thing to do. If you think that is selfish or gutless...I feel truly sorry for you. It's that mentality that has us in such a cynical, self-centered, egotistical country we find ourselves in today.

As for the "mommy could/would die" comment. We can all go at any time for any reason. I have a relative with HIV and he has been throwing his life away waiting for the "inevitable". In the meantime his sister died in a car accident way before him. Funny how life works. I would rather go out in a noble manner than in a selfish one. How about you?

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lithamarie 5 years, 1 month ago

Bandmama, Your outlook on life is rather sad. It's so clear that you are brainwashed by the rest of society's mantra of "save yourself, screw everyone else." How can you possibly see giving up your life as selfish?? What ever brought you to such a sad conclusion? If I gave my life to save my child, yes, he would be without a mother. But men have been known to remarry. And I hope my husband would. And what better gift can I give that child than life? Even if it means foresaking my own. I do believe that there is a family here in town now who is grieving the loss of a mother who tried to save her child without thinking of herself. Who would judge her as selfish? If anything, she is heroic. I don't think that there are enough heroes these days. Most people share your narrow-sighted view that self-preservation is the highest of virtues. That is why the road of holiness is a lonely road--most people are crowding down the road of selfishness pushing each other over to preserve themselves.

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason that this article has spawned such hateful repsonses is because abortion is the hot-button issue that is due to the fact that it is wrong??? Why else would people be clinging so violently and angrily to it? "Self-preservation at all costs!!! Gimme, gimme, gimme, and leave none for the others! I want all for myself and screw anyone who tries to take it from me!!"

Let's face it, nothing can be said to change the minds of those who are set in their ways. All I can say is, some day people will look back on this as being the most deplorable and regrettable time in our history. And those who cling to abortion will be thought of as in the same way as the slave-holders, the white supremacists, and the nazis. And people will rejoice that those in favor of abortion lost the battle. Because, in the end, good and love always triumph. So, cling to your pro-choice beliefs for now. The days of that being seen as acceptable are numbered.

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OnceLivedHere 5 years, 1 month ago

The liveliness of the discussion, except for those with political derangement syndrome, tells us that the article has touched on a point that is a long way from settled.

We need to remember that that the one point that does touch us all is that the federal funding of abortion is based on a court decision, not a public referendum. I firmly believe that individuals have unalienable rights. I also understand that science has opened up lots for us to consider as to when life begins and to determine how soon rights attach after life begins. I would much rather see those decisions made in a far less alien environment than a Supreme Court decision made in 1973. Even if it means that abortion is permitted or funded in some places and not in others, at least the decision would be based on the input of the people not a lawyer's argument or a judge's finding.

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stephb 5 years, 1 month ago

When I had first moved to NY, I needed to get birthcontrol, and an exam. I had very little money, as I had just started over again..(new job etc) I saw that PP let you go in and get birth control on a sliding pay scale... As I walked up the steps I thought to myself "I'm just going in here to get an exam, and some Birth Control....what if some crazy person shoots me for assuming Im getting an abortion?" I sort of shrugged to myself realising how silly I was being, until I opened the third door to finally get into the waiting area....and I saw the bullet proof glass that covered the entire desk area.... It wasnt there for nothing.... Sure PP provides abortions, but they also help people like me who were PREVENTING an unwanted pregnancy. I myself could never go through with an abortion, but thats just me. I don't think that going to PP is supporting abortion. I think it is an excellent resource for women and thier health. I can not judge or control what other people do. As if getting a Papsmear wasn't nervewracking enough, now you have to wonder if you are going to get killed while your spread eagle? lol... Some people are craaaaazy!

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seeuski 5 years, 1 month ago

The tragedy lith references is painful and you will never be a mother so back off.

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playa46 5 years, 1 month ago

To KirryJ and lithamarie:

You two are truly inspirational. Just the thought of you laying down the life for your kid makes me feel all warm and bubbly inside. Man, why can't people think and feel just like you? Life would be so great.

"Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason that this article has spawned such hateful repsonses is because abortion is the hot-button issue that is due to the fact that it is wrong??? Why else would people be clinging so violently and angrily to it? "Self-preservation at all costs!!! Gimme, gimme, gimme, and leave none for the others! I want all for myself and screw anyone who tries to take it from me!!"

Actually, no. People who are for abortion are crazy, however, people for choice are not. It's not about "self preservation", it's about thinking and making a choice. You see lithamarie, this is where you are so wrong.

For outside your happy family's hopes, dreams and values about how every single little life should be allowed to grow and prosper about, there is reality ready to smack you in the face. You see, outside your happy little world, there are: problems. These nasty little bugs make things, like child-birth, a real challenge in life, and something they just cannot deal with.

And think about, you are a fetus. You don't think, move or speak. You are simply there, only to feel. So if you were to die as one, what's the point? Life is always going to end.

You two are right, people can be selfish. But hey, not every specific case is what you think it will be, there is more to your close-minded thoughts on when someone gets an abortion.

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oldskoolstmbt 5 years, 1 month ago

...sooo a life is a life at what ever stage?....how many of you 'pro-lifer's' eat meat, poultry, fish or eggs???...i mean a life is a life....god forbid little cindy lou terminates a pregnancy after being raped at the age of 15 by her uncle....but let's all give thanks around the dinner table for daddy bubba for shooting that beautiful doe, mother to a fawn, for filling our bellies tonight...because it would have been an inconvenience to do otherwise...i guess almost everyone is a murderer at some level...

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