Conservative commentary: God bless America

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God bless America, land that I love

Like most of us who live here in the greatest country God has ever given to man, I love America. Recently, a friend of mine who traveled and lived in Europe for a time told me that she loves it, too, but not as much as me. Michelle Obama has said that America is a mean country and that she is only now proud of it since her husband declared his candidacy. And alas, it has now become apparent that her husband isn't all that fond of it, either.

Stand beside her, and guide her

I used to tell my children that when they were outside of our home and interacting with others, they were representing our family and should act accordingly. When Barack Obama is in Europe or any other place that isn't his home, as a representative of all of us, we would expect him to do the same. Maybe he has forgotten that some 62 million of us did not vote for him in the last election. Maybe he still doesn't realize that many of us are not impressed with his cool demeanor that covers for his narcissism and ineptness. Perhaps he hasn't noticed the growing unrest, i.e. outrage, that is settling in amongst the good people of our land.

You see, Barack Obama, we don't want to lose our freedom and our liberty, the product of so much blood, sweat and tears and the sacrifices of the brave men and women who have fought for our country's values for the past 220 years. We want to continue to live in this prosperous and generous nation under the principles of our framers and their wisdom in writing the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and other enduring documents.

When you dare to apologize for American's exceptionalism and make excuses to a European coalition that should be in our debt, all in the name of wanting to be liked, you betray your oath of office and you are an embarrassment.

Through the night with the light from above

Our great President, Ronald Reagan, once likened America to a "shining city on a hill." We still are that shining city, but our God-given natural rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" currently are under siege by a radical, leftwing ideology that is being forced upon us by this president and a Democrat-dominated Congress that does not have our best interests at heart.

From the mountains, to the valleys, to the oceans white with foam.

It is up to us to stand up for our embattled country. Power to the people. Conservatism and the principles it represents are what will continue to give us the strength we need to recover.

Whenever we are feeling threatened, we need only go back to our core principles: a strong national defense; individual responsibility; less, rather than more, government; and the knowledge that the free market system is the answer to our economic problems. These are undying and proven truths. And we do not need a teleprompter to remind us of what already is in our hearts.

It might be a good idea, Mr. President, for you to take a few days off, go to Camp David to listen to Ronald Reagan's speeches and learn what it is to be president. You are no longer campaigning, and this is not a dress rehearsal.

God bless America, my home sweet home. God bless America, my home sweet home.

Mary is a part-time resident of Steamboat Springs. She works to promote conservative causes.

Comments

playa46 5 years, 7 months ago

Wow, I don't think any of you live in my country...

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trump_suit 5 years, 7 months ago

It is really sad that when they were in charge the conservative majority could not govern by the princples laid out in this article.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 7 months ago

I wonder how Mary feels about being kept safe after the actions of today's defeat of the Somali pirates. Good call, Mr. President and more importantly, well done to the Navy snipers! God Bless America, indeed!

Mary might want to go back and read thru old Sunday school teachings whenever the Seven Deadly Sins were discussed. Pride, or hubris/vanity, was considered the one sin from which the other 6 were derived. Humility was one of the Seven Virtues and it hasn't been seen in our country for 8 years.

Now, should the economy get better, I'll say I can feel pretty good as a Moderate Republican with Obama as President.

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upstream 5 years, 7 months ago

Mary, even pagan pacifists like me are born in America everyday and granted the birthright of the Navy blue passport. Your intolerance makes me sad- and even as a true pagan, I do not believe your "GOD" hates me like you do. Voices like your's make me worry for my beautiful country.

May your spring be fertile (we all know that is the real message of easter) and your mind a little more open to the diversity of this spectacular land we both call home. Goddess bless America, MY home sweet home...

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1999 5 years, 7 months ago

that was actually quite funny to read.

thanks for brightening my day

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1999 5 years, 7 months ago

sad to me that the right has been taken over by religious fanatical nitwits instead of focusing on being truly conservative.

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stillinsteamboat 5 years, 7 months ago

That actually made me feel nauseous. Mary, I'm not sure we live in the same country.

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Scott Wedel 5 years, 7 months ago

A letter like that may be promoting conservative causes to a small portion of the population.

A letter like that is promoting progressive causes for the rest of the population.

I had never considered that the song's full title should be "God Bless America, and no one else"

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JustSomeJoe 5 years, 7 months ago

This is hardly "Conservative Commentary". Egocentric commentary yes. Fantastical, check. Brent - This isn't conservative commentary, not even close. You have to call it something new. How about : "Right Wing Fringe Commentary", "Musings from a Dark Corner" or even "Ann Coutler: Local Edition".

Money quotes:

"The knowledge that the free market system is the answer to our economic problems." yeah, but we get to keep all the subsidies, tax breaks, protectionist laws, right? And stop all the regulations that hurt giant manufactures, energy productions, chemical companies, right? Big government getting in the way again. They should be able to dump their by-products and waste in whatever watershed and neighborhood they want. Oh yeah, the free market also demand less regulation of financial markets, because in a free market companies have enough of a social conscience to balance out their almighty greed for a dollar, right?

"... go to Camp David to listen to Ronald Reagan's speeches and learn what it is to be president." Well, except for those speeches about tax increases, supply side spending and unchecked borrowing, right?

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untamedShrewd 5 years, 7 months ago

Mary begins with "Like most of us who live here in the greatest country God has ever given to man..."

God did not give us the United States of America.

Mary's statement is common from the "Religious Right": they want this country to "return to the Christian principles on which it was founded". Yet our Founding Fathers responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true.

The Founders wrote OUR nation's Constitution specifing "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. The Founding Fathers wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution--not once.

The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea of divine authority.

The American Revolution was fought and won to establish OUR independence from King George III and Great Britian. It was for the U.S. to self-govern, not to become a Christian state.

Plus, Mary uses the song "God Bless America" by Irving Berlin. It was composed in 1938 (155 years after the Revolution). Berlin wrote it as a peace song just prior to WWII when fasciam and war threatened Europe. "God Bless America" became a second national anthem. "The Star Spangled Banner" is the first national anthem and was written in 1814 but did not become our national anthem until 1931 (148 years after the Revolution). And "In God we trust" became a national motto in 1956 (173 years after the Revolution).

The core principles fought for in the Revolution was to establish a self-government not dictated by the religious right or any other religion for that matter.

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oldskoolstmbt 5 years, 7 months ago

untamed~excellent!...i hope 'mary' reads it!...better yet, i hope mary reads all of these blogs!....mary, you forgot to mention the correlation between your GOD and BUSH...."I'm the decider, and I'll decide what's right."...this whole article is just plain silly.

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JLM 5 years, 7 months ago

Wow, I thought this was a very well done thought piece until I read the tripe offered by the libs in response --- then I knew it was a GREAT piece.

Well done, Mary, and thanks for sharing.

Libs, get a freakin' life. LOL You crazy freaky SBS tools.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Hmmm, I guess some of these truths are not really self-evident!

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 7 months ago

JLM- Which religion is sponsoring "their Creator?" Plus, shouldn't that be "all people are created equal," in this day and age? Or are only Men created equal? Next time, pick out something that doesn't bely necessity for a little change. Oh, that's right- as a country some believe is a "Christian" nation, how many Christian female priests are there?

As for "Libs, get a freakin' life," the same could be said to all who think that the Pres' dog should be a rescued dog, or why hasn't Obama gone to church every weekend since inauguration, or that now, Michelle Obama's make-up purchases ("breaking news" on Hannity tonight! LOL!) are as newsworthy as Sarah Palin's wardrobe a few months ago. Then again, Far-Right mantra is to use the method you disagree with in order to win, because someone's God is on America's side!

And JLM- I notice all you did was denigrate others on the thread without actually commenting on their specific posts, let alone Untamed's post, which was well thought out and steeped in historic facts. How very Liberal of you!

And just to put this one out there, for all the Far-Right loons (not on this thread, but other websites) who said Obama deserves no credit in the pirates defeat yesterday for simply ordering the Navy to do as necessary, I then guess that applies to Bush since all he did was order the military to attack Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Scott Wedel 5 years, 7 months ago

I think it is not quite accurate to say that the founding fathers had no use for religion, many were quite religious. They had no use for religion in government because so many of the colonies were founded by people of a particular religious sect that sought refuge in North America. (And they were typically Christians fleeing persecution from other Christians).

That is why the Constitution had the "no religious test" and the First Amendment stating the right of freedom of religion. The right to be religious is thus protected and government was protected from religion.

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TonyB 5 years, 7 months ago

About this column: It's interesting how conservatives quoting Ronald Reagan and his city on the hill reference usually fail to include the full context. Puritan preacher John Winthrop coined the phrase in a sermon tilted "A Model of Chrisitan Charity" onboard a ship about to land in the new world -- Massachusetts Bay Colony -- in the 17th century. Winthrop understood how the settlers had to work together -- for the common good. Here's what he said: "Now the only way to avoid this shipwreck, and to provide for our posterity, is to follow the counsel of Micah, to do justly, to love mercy, to walk humbly with our God. For this end, we must be knit together, in this work, as one man. We must entertain each other in brotherly affection. We must be willing to abridge ourselves of our superfluities, for the supply of others' necessities. We must uphold a familiar commerce together in all meekness, gentleness, patience and liberality. We must delight in each other; make others' conditions our own; rejoice together, mourn together, labor and suffer together, always having before our eyes our commission and community in the work, as members of the same body. So shall we keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. The Lord will be our God, and delight to dwell among us, as His own people, and will command a blessing upon us in all our ways, so that we shall see much more of His wisdom, power, goodness and truth, than formerly we have been acquainted with. We shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when ten of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies; when He shall make us a praise and glory that men shall say of succeeding plantations, "may the Lord make it like that of New England." For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God, and all professors for God's sake. We shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us till we be consumed out of the good land whither we are going." I contend it was a communal message -- that knitting together for the common good was the way. Patience and liberality. The author and her ilk would probably call that "socialism." But working together is not the aim of the party of "no" these days. It can't even get our history straight. So its advocates carp, and wrap themselves in deception and untruth. This column is a case study in shallow thinking. It was soundly rejected last November. And will continue to be rejected until such right-wingers actually have a new idea. Tony Benjamin, Loveland

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untamedShrewd 5 years, 7 months ago

Scott, your correct when you say many of the Founding Fathers were religious and that they believed that U.S. government should not be based upon religion.

The delegates: 28 believers in the Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War), eight Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. And other founders, such as Patrick Henry, were proponents of traditional religion. And several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists. And Deism is derived from the Latin word for God (Deus). Deists believe in the existence of God on rational grounds without religious authority.

All the delegates agreed to keep seperation of Church and state.

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Kristopher Hammond 5 years, 7 months ago

Untamed and TonyB: thank you for your well-researched and well-reasoned comments. JLM: Your usual pontificating and name calling. Your schtick is old. And Mary: Just when I thought you couldn't be more wrong, I realized you even got the words to the song wrong: "From the mountains, to the valleys..." It's PRAIRIES, not valleys. Obviously you don't ever sing or even know the song. What country are you from? God Bless America!

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

Wow, What a rabid response from the leftys. If you guys ignore the fact that this woman is a Christian faithful and begins from that standpoint in the first paragraph what has she stated other than recent events that are in the news? Can't the other side have a valid opinion of the current administration and the Bower in Chief that is not a slobber fest like those that voted him in? As far as this pirate situation that someone mentioned above and how Obama deserves accolades, B.$! Because we are not in an active state of war with this group it was required of the President to give the order for the Navy to act. The Navy did the great job and the freed Captain said it best that he was not the hero but the Seals that freed him were. That is all Obama should have done is given accolades to the Navy but his Chief of Staff, Rom, couldn't find a camera fast enough. Obama indicated in his press conference a desire to treat this high seas treachery as a criminal offense(we will bring the criminals to justice) don't bring em here sir, use the yard arm. Did we not learn our lessons from that judicious kind of approach under Clinton, who I voted for twice like one of the fooled. Already today 4 more ships are hijacked.

Hi Matthew how are you? You wrote: "for all the Far-Right loons (not on this thread, but other websites) who said Obama deserves no credit in the pirates defeat yesterday for simply ordering the Navy to do as necessary, I then guess that applies to Bush since all he did was order the military to attack Iraq and Afghanistan."

What??? How is a Pirate hostage situation comparable to the 9/11 attacks that triggered the required response of war against the perpetrators? And lets just agree here that we dissagree as to who was accountable. As far as what you say about the right wing giving Obama no credit that is not what is being said. It's more like Obama did the right thing by letting the Navy do it's job but he deserves no extra credit for some perceived heroic decision. And it is being reported from White House sources on the news that Obama only allowed the Navy to take out the Pirates if the hostage was in imminent danger, he was always in danger of death so if Obama played it that way then he was soft. So, this event ended favorably thank god. We will have to see what Obamas next steps are as this Pirate problem is escalating and the Pirates (terrorists) have made direct threats to the lives of Americans. Does Obama take action now or not? What do you say he should do? Is it your opinion that we take preemptive action based on these events? Oh, do you agree with the change in terminoligy from Terrorism to Man made natural disasters? What a joke.

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Scott Wedel 5 years, 7 months ago

Untamed, I am a descendant of the family of the only Catholic (I am not Catholic) that signed the Declaration of Independence. He was also the wealthiest person that signed it. And he, via a cousin who was a delegate, had notable influence on the Constitutional Convention arguing for the need for a strong executive.

And cousin Daniel was also Catholic so why does your count of 49 fail to include a Catholic?

This website says that there another Catholic as well.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constframedata.html

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MrTaiChi 5 years, 7 months ago

What fun! JLM is right to note that such conservative cheerleading articles really bring out the left wing in the Yampa Valley. The predictability of responses from the usual suspects seems to be a comprehensive list of those of you on the left who have commented in other contexts in other threads. The founding fathers reverently referred to in the above postings, your secular Gods, expected that there would be tolerance for all ideas in America's future, respect for opinions that were not popular. This woman went a little over the top, but your agitated resonses only underscore that the left is heir to a legacy of intolerance of divergent ideas. Thanks to those of you who offered some substance to your arguments. You don't deserve the criticism.

BHO was hailed in Berlin when a candidate, and Europe now has fawned over him as President. This is not surprising, as Socialists, they recognize one of their own. I too heard his words mildly chiding Europeans for casual but persistent anti-Americanism, but he seemed to strike a balance in favor of communicating rather that our country was a fault for that direction of events, at best only an arguable point. This was unfortunately underscored when he bowed to the Saudi King. This action and his failure to put his hand over his heart at the playing of the national anthem at the campaign event when Clinton and Richardson knew that was the protocol are continuing evidence of the wisdom of the FF in requiring the President to be over 35 and natural born. They must have understood the importance of inculcating a youth with love of country and American traditions. Obama is a quick study, and his gaffs can be overlooked, except that as the author of the article suggests, his actions indicate ignorance of American traditions, world history and a radical view of America's place in the world as one of the pack, a European world, for instance, in which the decree of an English court expelling an imam for importuning his followers to murder and intollerance is held up for a year or more by appeal to the European Commission on Human Rights. Criminal solicitation was never intended to be protected speech by the FF, but this example is one which should put us on our guard about the left's desire to Europeanize us, so thank you Mary for manning the sentry tower.

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untamedShrewd 5 years, 7 months ago

oops, missed Roman Catholic Charles Carroll. But didn't miss the point trying to make. And that is Christianity, nor any other religion, is the governing body of our country: as was written by our Founding Fathers including your relative. I praise them all for creating the U.S. and freedom of thought.

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untamedShrewd 5 years, 7 months ago

scott, after further research, your Roman Catholic relative Charles Carroll did not sign the Constitution. He did helped draft it, however. And he did sign the Declaration of Independence. So my first listing of delegates' religions was correct in terms of those who signed the Constitiution.

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JusWondering 5 years, 7 months ago

Tony B... overall I am right with you on your post but I would suggest that you check your sources "Puritan preacher John Winthrop coined the phrase..."; not completely accurate. Check out Matt. 5:14 in the context in which it was written. The passage has to do with the hearts and behaviour of those professing to follow Jesus and not a theocracy here on Earth as it is often mis-quoted. What is more interesting to note is the last part of the passage "so that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven". It kind of flys in the face of the self-centered agenda so readily embraced by some doesn't it?

I would absolutely agree that Mary provides a window into an extreme fringe that has forgotten what their ultimate mentor, guide and founder spoke to. Jesus and his direct followers did NOT propose POLITICAL revolution or an Earthly theocracy. His message echoed that time again; it always amazes me when his professed followers demand a utopian society today when that is not what he spoke about.

Regardless of what you believe about the existence of a god, the God or whatever the teachings of Jesus did not profess the belief in a theocracy or good here on Earth.

The teachings of Paul (one of the most notable followers of Jesus and credited writer of much of the New Testament) really would point us much more to a socialist "liberal" economic agenda in many ways than to a "conservative" economic agenda.

However, I feel very fortunate that I live in a country that allows Mary (and the rest of us for that matter) to profess opinion and belief no matter how misguided I personally feel you all are. :)

As to the commentary of untamed... the founders and framers were not opposed to religion. They were opposed to a theocracy... big difference. The age of enlightment was not an age of atheism or agnosticism (although there were some atheists and agnostic thinkers of the time). It was an age of attainment of knowledge. It was an age that, for the most part, acknowledged a Creator god without aspiring to name him/her.

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TonyB 5 years, 7 months ago

Hello JusWondering, Thanks for the citation. I think Winthrop enlarged on the idea that a city on a hill cannot be hidden, by adding this: " The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world." He applied theology to the real world, and the vision he had for the new one. And, of course, the ideas related to helping and sharing were central to that vision -- "We must delight in each other; make others' conditions our own; rejoice together, mourn together, labor and suffer together, always having before our eyes our commission and community in the work, as members of the same body." I suppose it raises an interesting question -- given the genocide, slavery, greed and land-grabbing that followed: Have we really fulfilled the task? Seems like an argument can be made that there's still a ways to go. Thanks again, Tony B.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 7 months ago

Seeuski- Doin' good, thanks! You are right (finally- been waiting on this one! LOL!)- this isn't exactly like our response to 9/11. This was coordinated better by laying siege to the small boat of 4 pirates until they were hungry, tired, not thinking as well as they should. This allowed for mistakes on their part so the SEALS' snipers could take the remaining 3 out in an orderly fashion, with less risk to the hostage.

Also, in a hostage crisis, how many times do you see our forces, military or our police, just go in on the drop of a hat? No, they lay siege, cut electricity (on land), shut off water, etc, ...we've all seen that played out before. The hostage would have been in worse danger, had the SEALS just attacked. Had they intended to kill him, they would have done so at the first sight of U.S. Navy ships and beat feet out of there. A dead hostage brings absolutely no chance of money.

This reason this was better than our responsed to 9/11 was due to the fact we forgot about Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden in order to take out Iraq...which didn't harbor Osama bin Laden. I commend Obama for not sending troops into Ethiopia just because they neighbor Somilia.

And the SEALS deserve the credit for the recapture, definitely. Everyone far-right loon suspected Obama couldn't/wouldn't keep us safe. It's a little cheesy how the news came out that he gave the order twice, but I see it was to show that he did IN FACT give the order, contrary to what the far-right loons would have thought. Even FOX News contributor LTC Bill Cowan said everything went exactly how it should have been done. If you aren't familiar with who LTC Cowan is, read this Wiki:

Especially, read the lower section:

He seems to know a bit about hostage situations.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 7 months ago

Seeuski Pt. 2- And yes- far-right loons weren't giving any credit to Obama. Go to FOX News' website and read comments on those forums. (I warn you though- their forums/comments sites are incredibly frustrating trying to get to the next page of comments. Try it for fun and you'll never complaing about the Pilot Forums again!)

As for your question, before we go into Somalia unilaterally, I'd like to see Obama (or as long as he does whether I see/hear it or not) talk with France (considering their pirate response) along with a few other U.N. or NATO country leaders and have a fully coordinated effort. In the meantime, our NAVY ships should start patrolling the area en masse and frequently to keep more ships from being captured. If we try to just go in there...where are the ground troops going to come from? We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fighting a 3rd simultaneous war...you willing to sign up? We'll need you!

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

I don't disagree with any of your above description of how a professional Seal does his job. Tactics that are a part of everyday extreme training were used for sure. As an American I am proud of the way it worked out here. But you have ignored the body of questions I posed to you regarding the Political aspects of this action and future actions. You guys killed Bush when he welcomed back that Naval vessel and declared that (their) mission was accomplished. All of us with brains understood he meant it was that groups mission, not the ongoing war effort that was accomplished. I got angry every time I saw a left wing nut with the bumper sticker"mission nothing accomplished". And now these same goofs stand in line to praise the military. What a joke. So now the right sees this administration trying to play up their role in the Pirate event and you guys scream bloody murder.

Oh, and I'll say it again as I have before with posted links to proof. Saddam Hussein was involved with vengeful terrorist attacks against the USA starting with the 1993 WTC bombing and leading all the way up to the 9/11 attacks. So Bush rightfully went after Afghanistan and then Iraq. Obama has been in office for 100 days and we have not found the cave that Osama dwells in that Obama prommissed he would find. Media has stopped its whining on that issue too. One question, why did Obama bow to the King and just shake hands with the Queen? Faith!

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

You posted while I was writing. Yea, I'll sign up along with you. Seriously though, I can agree with your activity statement above. That would suffice for now.

As far as the forums on Fox, I don't go in. I read the online news and do watch TV along with the other stations like CNN and a very limited amount of MSNBC especially never Keith Doberman the idiot. The Jerusalem Post web site offers alot of good reporting both ways. I sometimes go to the Arabic sites as well to see the other side of things, some of which are palatable some not.

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Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 7 months ago

I have no problem signing up, but I have to do it before November. (43 is too old) Unfortunately, my past with alcohol may not allow to to re-enlist. If I could, I'd have to convince my wife...don't think that'll ever happen. If it did, I'd just need retraining on the tanks I used to drive when I was active duty.

As for "Mission Accomplished," the banner was held up in conjuction with Bush saying that it marked and end to major combat operations in Iraq. As many have noticed, our major combat operations continue today, for the most part.

As for WTC 1993, read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tr...

As for 9/11, read here: http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/rice-denies-bush-pushed-bogus-saddam-911

Condi quoted in March 2009 interview: ROSE: But you didn't believe it had anything to do with 9/11.

RICE: No. No one was arguing that Saddam Hussein somehow had something to do with 9/11.

ROSE: No one.

RICE: I was certainly not. The President was certainly not...That's right. We were not arguing that.

Bush quoted December 2008 interview: BUSH: One of the major theaters against al Qaeda turns out to have been Iraq. This is where al Qaeda said they were going to take their stand. This is where al Qaeda was hoping to take -

RADDATZ: But not until after the U.S. invaded.

BUSH: Yeah, that's right. So what? The point is that al Qaeda said they're going to take a stand. Well, first of all in the post-9/11 environment Saddam Hussein posed a threat. And then upon removal, al Qaeda decides to take a stand.

I won't go into the rest of the story since it's obviously partisan, but he words came from both of their mouthes. That right there, along with the FBI/NSA finding that were on Wiki concerning WTC 93...to paraphrase: I report, you decide. LOL!

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Scott Wedel 5 years, 7 months ago

Untamed, I didn't say that Charles Carroll of Carrollton signed the Constitution, that was signed by his cousin Daniel.

And another Catholic, Fitzsimmons of Pennsylvania, signed the Constitution.

So your counts are still wrong.

The city on a hill analogy is not that the city reached perfection, but that it was always trying to be better. And that people can choose to try to be better.

The key aspect of that analogy is that people can improve their world. That the answer is not to sit around and wait for God to produce miracles. Or that people are fundamentally unchangeable, but to go out and make a place that you think God would be proud of.

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

Matthew, Does true investigative evidence matter in your acceptence of what happened and who was behind it?

Clinton's 1992 Iraq expert and all of the evidence shows otherwise. I believe Bush took it on the chin for eight years in order to protect Clinton's political decision to treat the 1993 attack as a criminal offense rather than let the investigation play out where it did, Iraq.

From the wikipedia link you provide the truth yourself, thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Ra...

http://lauriemylroie.com/ http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing3/witness_mylroie.htm http://www.husseinandterror.com/ http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp http://regimeofterror.com/

I could list many more sources for proof but it gets redundant. Why, in the face of all of this information would anyone defend Saddam Hussein in regards to his involvement with terrorism here and worldwide? One answer, the hatred for Bush. I read the reports and I have decided, Saddam Hussein was the biggest source of global terrorism the world has ever seen and George W. Bush ended it. Thank god.

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

Matthew, Read the story about Iraqi Abdul Rahman Yasin and his arrest and how after he gave info to the FBI regarding his building the bomb in the 1993 attack they set him free and he returned to Iraq. How can you explain this remarkable decision? Why would the FBI let him go? He was involved. Easy, the highest authority told them to do so because what would have happened if the media reported that one year after the end of the Gulf War an Iraqi intel officer was involved with the WTC bombing? Clinton would have had no choice but to treat it as an act of war and send our troops back to Iraq to finish the job which he should have done. This is why I believe Bush stayed away from the classified info on what happened in the early 1990's with Hussein. Presidents don't tell on former Presidents thats the way it is except with big mouth Carter, thank god he has no access to recent records.

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JLM 5 years, 7 months ago

Liberals/socialists and conservatives cannot truly be accused of not wanting equality. It is the nature of that equality that is perhaps a bit different and is the real distinguishing mark of these ---isms.

It would not be a stretch of the imagination to say that the liberals/socialists aspire to an America where all are equally poor while the conservatives aspire to an America in which all have an equal opportunity to become rich.

Liberals/socialists desire to "redistribute" the existing wealth held by or created by society's most productive members while the conservatives believe in principles which make it easier for all to work hard, become productive and become rich while growing the absolute magnitude of society's riches.

Liberals/socialists are trying to redistribute a fixed amount of riches through confiscatory policies posing as "progressive" policies while conservatives are trying to grow the stock of riches and to share them through hard work thereby rewarding hard work.

One fights over the existing pie pretending to "share" while the other grows the pie larger making bigger "shares".

So it all gets down to --- do you want a little piece of a small pie acquired through confiscatory policies or do you want a bigger piece of a growing pie and want to earn your share?

Words and verbs matter. Confiscate v grow your share?

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

Tea parties threatened by ACORN (the strongarming pro Obama fraud group) and so called right wing extremists groups warnings from the new Administration's Department of Homeland Security along with the White House threatening to gather intel on such people. And you people yelled about Bush's so called abuse of power with the Patriot Act. We are heading towards a new revolution and it won't be pretty. The President said in his news conference today" that it is wrong to lower spending in a recession". Kiss the trillions of borrowed taxpayers money goodby. Our impending doom will make the Carter years seem like the light at the end of the tunnel. Pray that Obama bumps his head on Airforce1 again and it knocks some sense in to his empty scull.

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untamedShrewd 5 years, 7 months ago

scott, your note to me was about a relative signing the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. I was simply trying to figure out who the Roman Catholic was to whom you were referring. Nothing more. After further research I found that, yes, two Roman Catholics signed the Constitution: Fitzsimons and Danielle Carroll. But neither signed the Declaration of Independence (which you referred to). On the other hand, Charles Carroll help draft the Constitution but did not sign it. He did sign the Declaration of Independence and was the only Roman Catholic to sign it. Yes, all three are Roman Catholics but only one signed the Declaration (which you mentioned your ancestry) and two signed the Constitution. Yet to add more confusion, the website you refer me to (as good as it is) lists signers of the Constitution, not the Declaration.

Aside from all the confusion--both documents had signatures of Framers representing several religious backgrounds, including Roman Catholic. Yet religion does not dictate either document and is only used in exclusionary terms.

This is the website you had given to me (about the Constitution when you refered to the Declaration). Good Site. Thanks http://www.usconstitution.net/constframe:

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ybul 5 years, 7 months ago

Just a quick question for those who think socialism is the end all...

Now this is extreme but lets say that an individual has a food allergy. Now the government decides what we should be eating for the greater good. What happens when that individual fails to thrive, gets sick or dies because of the food allergy? But this diet was determined because of flawed studies that did not take into account all variables for a certain situation.

Take it to a more real world example. You have a set of guidelines that are to be used for fertilization, pesticide application, etc. for a farm. These determinations are made by some Educrat in DC, with little to no knowledge of the differences in environmental conditions from farm to farm, let alone from state to state ( or field to field in some cases). What happens when they determine for safety, maximum food production, etc., that you must follow their guidelines or they come in and seize your property as the state of Colorado is doing today with Pinnacols assets.

Seems far fetched that this could happen, HR 875 might make it so, I read it as they were going to determine the rules, at a later date, in the name of food safety (yet the USDA does not allow for independent testing for Mad Cow Diseasethat sure would add to food safety). If you do not comply or violate the rules, you face a $1,000,000 fine. Seems crazy to set a fine without stating what the rules are. All for the greater good - what greater good and who gets to determine what that greater good is?

Socialism is nothing more than legalized plunder. The common good is better served by the protection of an individuals right to keep the fruits of their labor. Maybe the systemic problem resides in how the legislative body has crafted nice pensions for state,corporate workers to be invested in companies run by thieves, a banking system which can create money with the punch of a button (either through credit the printing of stock or real money).

Y do we fail to see that the human condition "greed and self interest" almost certainly will cause socialism to fail. (personally we have been living in a socialist country for a long time just that the "greater good" was not in line with what the "socialists" believe to be the "greater good".)

For all of you who speak of the "greater good", who gets to determine the "greater good"? What happens if/when a mistake is made?

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seeuski 5 years, 7 months ago

Matthew, Here is the Presidents newest position as spoken through his subordinate Gates.

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he doesn't see any immediate need to bulk up the military response to piracy on the high seas. Gates adds, however, that those decisions are being made moment by moment."

4 newly pirated ships this morning and no imminent threat recognition by our Gov't.

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TonyB 5 years, 7 months ago

Hoo-boy, Did this conversation ever go off the track. Which is okay because it shows there's a lot on our minds these days. Which is way better than the opposite. Tony B.

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Scott Wedel 5 years, 7 months ago

Untamed, My original post said that the wealthiest person (Charles Carroll of Carrollton) that signed the Declaration of Independence was a Catholic. And that his cousin Daniel signed the Constitution.

Ybul, If your fear of socialism is that people with allergies are going to be forced to eat food to which they are allergic then you either have nothing to worry about or are cursed by phantom fears.

As for conservatives/socialists, all this talk now is basically background noise to what is going to happen in the 2010 election. Obama has definitely changed course from Bush's policies and by then it will be clear if he chose well or badly. It is all going to be a referendum on Obama. If the criticisms of Obama is that he is not sufficiently American or whether he is too popular in Europe or apparently bowed to a foreign leader then it will be landslide victory for the Democrats and they'll have 62 seats in the Senate.

If the criticisms of Obama is that hundreds of billions were lost due to fraud or mismanagement of: TARP, stimulus or the wars then they'll be 55 democratic senators and Obama will have to correct those mistakes to have a chance to be reelected in 2012.

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JLM 5 years, 7 months ago

I wonder what country provides the most attractive environment in which to enjoy the fruits of socialism?

What country would you want to visit or live in which is a socialist country?

One of the big problems with adopting socialist principles is that there is absolutely no record of prosperity or success in socialist countries.

Or, maybe I am wrong?

We should at least gravitate collectively toward principles of governance which have some demonstrable track record of success, no?

Already, the tax receipts of the Federal Government have shown considerable deterioration in the last two quarters and the trend will only continue.

For the first time in my lifetime, I actually believe that there could be a massive Nation-wide tax revolt.

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Scott Wedel 5 years, 7 months ago

I find it curious that you would not visit a country because you do not agree with the political philosophy of the government. I think that is an opportunity to see for yourself what it is like.

I think the people of many socialist european countries are generally happy with their system. And that is because culturally they have different goals than us. We would say that someone is a "success". The French would say that someone is "living well" And it is not just words. In Paris they have rules so that when one bakery closes to go on vacation that it has to be coordinated so that there is at least one local bakery that stays open and the bakeries that are closed have to put up signs giving directions to the nearby open bakeries. Fresh bread and pastries are important for them to live well. Here the business owner that wanted to get ahead would stay open.

And certainly countries like Finland can point to a significant high tech industry and a pretty high standard of living. It is different there because they are are willing to have fewer doing extremely well if they have fewer doing very poorly. We are generally willing to accept people struggling as long as we can dream about becoming rich. Or that our kids could become rich. (No sarcasm intended, it is the American Dream and while it does not happen for all, it does happen for some).

A tax revolt is not that easy to do because most of the taxes are collected via payroll deductions and most people get refunds as compared to writing big checks.

I note that the sharp economic downturn started about two quarters ago so maybe that has something to do with the deterioration of tax receipts.

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JLM 5 years, 7 months ago

Why do you assume that the question I raised implies that I would NOT want to visit a socialist country? Read my questions carefully as I did not intend to suggest that conclusion.

Hell, I love France for its food and patisseries in particular and I may move to Cuba when it finally cracks open. Can you imagine the entrepreneurial opportunities in a country like Cuba when 300MM Americans are turned loose over there?

From a micro perspective I would be perfectly comfortable but from a macro perspective these countries are a bit suspect. They certainly have not delivered prosperity to their people.

There is no French or Cuban "dream" and there may shortly be no American Dream as well.

"A tax revolt is not that easy to do because..." only about 50% of the folks actually pay any taxes and apparently none of them are Democrats. LOL

The government's recent warnings about a general revolt are more likely given the growth of government and the wealth of combat experienced soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Wasn't the assertion of the sovereignty of the State of Texas by its Governor today interesting? He had to remind the Feds about the 10th Amendment. One has to admit that his statements were correct.

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JLM 5 years, 7 months ago

The US economy began to go in the tank in Dec 2007 and fell off the face of the earth in Aug-Sep-Oct-Nov 2008 exacerbated by the hyperbole of the Presidential campaign.

The economy has already begun to recover but the recovery will be as slow as the initial recessionary forces were weak and it will meet resistance along the way as some of the wounded industries (cars, insurance, credit cards, home builders) are bayoneted and left for dead. There are other shoes to drop here shortly.

The resolution of Obama Motors has already been written but the book has not yet been released --- GM is going to bankruptcy court and the bankruptcy court is going to deal with the union contracts and the legacy retirement costs. Obama is going to screw the UAW and Michigan is going to be annexed to Canada. [OK, that's a bit harsh. LOL]

Chrysler is a dead duck. Auto parts suppliers --- little UAW influence therein --- are going to be cast to the winds and will contract by 50%.

The wind down of the Iraq War will have an unintended consequence of further weakening the economy. Oil prices will likely collapse this summer. Airlines will be under great pressure as they prosper from declining JP4 while suffering from lessened business and tourist travel further troubled by a stronger dollar and lessened foreign travel to the US.

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ybul 5 years, 7 months ago

Scott,

The food allergy example was not a real example. It was an example of how "the common good" could cause harm to the individual and protecting the individuals rights is what we should be focused upon.

My concern lies with legislation such as HR 875 while given a name like modernization of food safety, or something like that. Someone will read the headline and not read the details, which are missing and think it must be good with the peanut scare. However, when they do not put in the details and allow a group to dictate what those details are, how do we know a group will not subtly craft them to benefit their group?

Those lack of details and all of the unintended consequences of that bill are what concerns me. The farmers union posted a nice myths and truths about the bill which states that the bill does not regulate farmers markets. However, what it fails to point out is that it will regulate farmers and if it adds undue burdens to independent farmers those markets might go away. Who knows but when you have a government H*** bent on "protecting" us then problems will arise.

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MrTaiChi 5 years, 7 months ago

TonyB is right about the drift, but the comments are interesting. Scott, 43, thanks for your service in the armed forces.

Europe took a welfare state track after WWII because to do otherwise would have invited communists to gain majorities in the democracies we restored. As we can see in our own country, once an entitlement is established in a democracy, it is almost impossible to revoke.

Europe was able to take a welfare state track because we subsidized it, first with the Marshall Plan and later by being the military umbrella that protected them from external and internal threats, courtesy of the American taxpayer and his productivity. Germans have been enjoying six to ten weeks of vacation per year thanks to you. Had European governments had to shoulder their share of defense, there wouldn't have been enough money for the social programs that make their countries look so enlightened.

As to the success of Socialism: Europeans have become so accustomed to their liezurely lifestyle, that the threat of finacial ruin on an individual lever is so removed from their lives that menial labor jobs are avoided by Caucasian Europeans. They have imported an underclass of Turks and Africans to do their dirty work for low wages, but are now dealing with the consequences of furnishing social benefits to an underclass that reproduces like rabbits and does not share the same cultural values. Good luck to them.

Here in the western hemisphere, we have the example of the shining light on the harbor, Cuba, a peoples' paradise, where there is universal education and healthcare. Just last week the Congressional Black Caucus visited and pronounced what a hail fellow well met is Fidel Castro. I guess they didn't visit his prisons where a man is serving twenty years for having written a poem satirizing Fidel. Oh and that optimum health care system- if it is so good, why did El Presidente have to bring in a Spanish physician to diagnose what is rotting him from the inside out?

Socialism is the inevitable precursor of loss of personal freedoms. The left characterizes the positions of those who disagree with it in pejorative terms and associations. If ridicule and name calling don't work, as the masses begin to get restive with the plans and programs of the cognoscenti, the law is brought to bear to silence them as is now ongoing in the Netherlands with Girt Wilders. Consider the illegal immigration debate in this country. The left frames the debate opponents as racists. If opponents get close to effective responses, look to see hate crime legislation affecting speech.

Finally, the revolution eats its own, always has, always will. The debate about the number of Catholics who danced on the head of a pin at the Constitutional Convention shows how you on the left love to be right. Eventually, you will get there as I did after a lifetime as a frustrated liberal.

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oldskoolstmbt 5 years, 7 months ago

yadda,yadda,yadda, f'n yadda....we should all move ...this country sucks!!!!lol

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JLM 5 years, 7 months ago

MrTaiChi's observation that the US has been footing the bill for the defense of Europe since WWII is the key financial data point which separates the European socialist reality from the Team Obama pipe dream.

The US cannot afford a European socialist society because we cannot get someone else to pay for our defense.

The problem with being the world's only remaining and "good" superpower is just that --- it costs a bundle to make the world safe.

The folks who do not have to provide for their own defense can spend their funds on other things.

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ybul 5 years, 7 months ago

Scott,

Here is another concern of socialism going on today in Colorado. I have one option for workmens compensation insurance. I feel my rates are too high as I pay half what I did for 50 employees for two (ten of which were in a similar classification as the ones I work with today), six years later.

Having had no claims (a couple of minor scrapes), I can find no other carrier to cover my business. The State of Colorado did a good thing in creating pinnacol. However, today they are running the risk of putting an organization that allows small business' to operate in Colorado in jeopardy.

Lets see, we should avoid cuts in higher education, so that pay can remain at $100,000 for a professor with great health care and a pension (most have supplemental incomes as a result of their jobs) and dump on me who works 60-80 hours a week in the summer to earn half of what they do with a $10,000 deductible on my insurance and no pension which is currently underfunded and in the future will need to raid pinnacol again to pay the state workers pensions.

That is what concerns me about socialism a bunch of nuts from boulder county making it harder for me to employ people, which I just took a gamble and added a third person to hopefully create a business within our business. I take a financial risk and the government steps in and makes my job harder. I feel like the people in sherwood forest who the sheriff kept levying higher and higher taxes on.

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freerider 5 years, 7 months ago

Mary ...a true patriot stands up and calls B.S. when it starts to stink..and there was plenty of it when Reagan was President...Nixon, Reagan , Bush , worst presidents ever in the History of the good ol U.S.A. Corporate presidents that started this once great country down the road of Fasicim. If you bother to take a look at the definition of Fasicim that's when the politicians and corporations take control of your country. " WE THE PEOPLE" are getting screwed . AIG bailout , Wall street bail out, corporate criminals getting paid bonuses from the feds. Maybe you should read the news once in awhile. People are pissed off in this country as they should be right now. There has been way too much tolerance as our rights as American's have been taken away one by one by people like George w. Bush . The tax tea party's are clear signals that there is a revolt coming. Now I say God bless the tax protesters

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MrTaiChi 5 years, 7 months ago

@ freerider

It is easy in the heat of issuing an emotionally felt contribution to this thread to overlook an edit that should have been made. The fact that you spelled "fascist" wrong twice tends to undercut belief that your arguments arise from a thorough understanding of political concepts, but rather are more in the nature of heat rather than light. Before you start expounding on the evils of Fascism, which deserves that description, you should do some reading. Otherwise, you sound like a little boy shouting a big new word that he doesn't understand.

Fascism arose in Italy from the symbol of the fasces, a Roman symbol of a bunch of branches bound tightly around an ax, symbolizing the authority of the state. The Fascists took it a bit further as a symbol, asserting that alone. like individual branches, an indiviual would be broken, but bound together with others, he had strength and would not be exploited. You can see a fasces on either side of the American flag in the House of Representatives, on the front legs of Lincoln's chair at the Lincoln Memorial, on the back of mercury dimes, and on the Colorado state seal. News flash- that doesn't mean that we are a Fascist country.

Whether Communist or Fascist, both extremes hate free speech. A lot of Americans died so you could have yours. Use it more wisely.

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oldskoolstmbt 5 years, 7 months ago

so, according to mrtaichi we can basically discredit mary's atricle as well for she wrote the wrong lyrics to the song she was quoting....awesome, i wanted another reason to laugh at her little tantrum!!!

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MrTaiChi 5 years, 7 months ago

oldsk.

Careful laughing uncontrollably. Your bigwheel may go out of control and you could have an accident.

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