Archive for Saturday, June 21, 2008
Steamboat Springs officials take action after fire in apartment
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Steamboat Springs — City Council members are calling for a review of code enforcement priorities, and city planners hope to inventory Steamboat Springs' stock of secondary residential units in the wake of David Engle's death last weekend in an Old Town apartment.
Engle died of smoke inhalation after a grease fire ignited in his converted garage apartment at 705 Pine St. The apartment had no smoke detectors and is not registered as a legal residence with the city. The city does not actively pursue unregistered secondary units unless a complaint is made. Secondary units are those located on the same lots as principal dwelling units and include a sleeping area, kitchen and bathroom, according to city codes.
"I think this is a real wake-up call," Councilman Steve Ivancie said Friday. "It's a tragedy. There's a lot of blame to go around. If we're not prepared to enforce our codes, we should take some of those rules off the books. : When it comes to property owners, I really feel they have a moral obligation to provide a safe place. : For people who circumvent the process, they should be held responsible."
Jeff and Trigg Gerber have owned the property since September 2007; the garage was converted to an apartment sometime before 1990.
Planning Director Tom Leeson said the city has only two code enforcement officers - one of whom was hired this year - to enforce all of its land-use regulations.
"They're busy with a lot of different land-use violations," Leeson said. "Vacation home rentals is probably our biggest one in terms of complaints. Signage, we get a lot of complaints about signage. And particularly this time of year we get a lot of complaints about noxious weeds.
"I don't think there's a lot of illegal units out there, and typically they don't get a lot of complaints in the neighborhood. : It's very difficult to go after them. It would be pretty time intensive for not a great return."
But both Ivancie and Councilwoman Cari Hermacinski said the enforcement of regulations related to safety should take priority.
"The benefit is saving a life," Hermacinski said. "Protecting people's health and safety is the basic function of government."
Hermacinski said life-safety issues should outweigh aesthetic concerns such as signage.
One tool not available in the enforcement of secondary unit regulations is the city's Finance Department, which helps police vacation home rentals.
"We go through and look at vacation ads and Web sites looking for properties that do not have a sales tax license," said Bob Litzau, assistant finance director.
Litzau said when sales tax auditors find an unregistered vacation home, they contact the owner, tell them to register, have them file back returns and refer them to the Planning Department. No similar process is in place for secondary units. Leeson said his department relies on complaints and does not troll newspaper or Internet advertisements.
"It's not a sales tax issue," Litzau said. "It's a long-term rental, so it really isn't an issue for" the Finance Department.
Mariane Engle, David's mother, said the city's response to the tragedy is of no concern to her at the moment.
"I haven't really been thinking along those lines," she said. "We've been thinking about David. Maybe in time, I'll be able to form an opinion on that."
Affordable or enforceable?
On Thursday, City Council President Loui Antonucci told the Steamboat Pilot & Today that, "Sometimes in a community like this when you do have housing issues, I think that sometimes there's a tendency to allow things to occur, or at least we turn the other cheek sometimes in not knowing about it."
Leeson, Ivancie, Hermacinski and Community Housing Coordinator Nancy Engelken rejected the idea that the city's need for affordable housing would trump a life-safety issue.
"I don't buy that argument," Ivancie said. "I think : people do this because they can get away with it. Unfortunately, in this town for years people have just done things on the fly."
Engelken and Leeson agreed with Antonucci in the sense that there is a "tremendous need" for the units, which make life more affordable for owners and renters alike. Leeson called them "affordable with a small 'a.'"
"Because of their size, there's a maximum landlords will charge for them," Engelken said. "They fill a good need."
But both said they would not protest on affordable housing grounds if City Council considered upping the enforcement of secondary unit regulations.
"I think this does come down to be a health and safety issue," Engelken said. "It's not about erasing the stock, but making sure everything is up to code in the city. I don't think documenting what exists reduces the stock. I think documenting the stock ensures that it's safe for the people living there."
'Painless process'
Documentation will be a major focus for Engelken and others in the Planning and Community Development Department in coming weeks. Although the city has records of all registered secondary units, there is no database or other organized list to refer to.
"We don't have a particular list," Leeson said. "We have records of them all, but it's just a matter of going through them. Based on this and based on the interest in this, we're going to develop a comprehensive list."
Leeson guessed there are between 50 and 75 secondary units registered in the city and few illegal secondary units. Although no official numbers are available, data prepared by the Routt County Assessor's Office provides some qualified insight.
Out of 2,708 properties classified as improved in Steamboat and the Tree Haus subdivision in unincorporated Routt County, 79 have two kitchens and 75 have a "second residential occurrence" such as a detached living area or caretaker unit. The number of properties with two kitchens excludes duplexes and triplexes.
"These numbers only represent properties that we are aware of as having secondary units either through the permit process or discovery process," Susan Chorak of the Assessor's Office wrote in an e-mail.
Another problem with the data, Assessor Mike Kerrigan said, is that his office often includes areas that may be used as a secondary units in the square footage of the primary residence if the two are connected by means such as a hallway, stairway or door.
"There really is no good definition from an appraisal point of view," Kerrigan said. "There isn't a consistent definition of what (a secondary unit) is. : There's not that many of them because we don't know about many of them."
Leeson said the city's secondary unit regulations were adopted in 2001.
"There were lots of existing secondary units prior to 2001, but they were all illegal," Leeson said. "You had to have twice the minimum lot size to have a secondary unit. In an effort to make it easier : we went through the process of establishing some criteria and making it a rather painless process."
The criteria include size limitations as well as occupancy and parking requirements. There is a $50 fee to register a secondary unit, and Leeson said the requirements are "relatively easy to meet" and applications usually are processed in a few days. A secondary unit application does not require public review by the Steamboat Springs Planning Commission or City Council.
"It's an easy administrative thing," Leeson said.
In the wake of David Engle's death, city officials urged Steamboat renters and landlords to take advantage of smoke detectors available for free from Steamboat Springs Fire Rescue. Routt County Coroner Rob Ryg, who confirmed Engle's cause of death Thursday, said Friday that a toxicology report still is pending and is expected Monday or Tuesday.
- To reach Brandon Gee, call 871-4210
or e-mail bgee@steamboatpilot.com
Comments
colobob (anonymous) says...
"not a great return" to prevent another tragedy like this recent one from happening again? Having my post removed by the Pilot staff prevents me from leaving a response to that statement. We all know there's a housing shortage and no one wants to see anyone displaced but they should at least be deemed safe.
June 21, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gravity (anonymous) says...
Even when you have gone through all the hoops to meet code, the city is slowing down EMS response time by refusing to name the alleys of old town. Nor are they enforcing the utility wire clearances so that rescue vehicles can safely traverse all our streets.
June 21, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
becca2 (anonymous) says...
Dont ask Yampa Valley housing authority to help. They have assisted in loosing over 50 gallons of water a minute running down the sewer since February. Wait isn't their job to help with affordable housing? but were just letting that much water run and not be fixed. They must have some money to waist. Is that how affordabel housing works around here?
June 21, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
This makes me sick..........................
June 21, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rsssco (anonymous) says...
condoguy,
In what way? Please explain further.
June 21, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
rsssco, please see my posts on the other articles regarding this young mans death, the idea that we should lose this human being and his beloved dog, and throw it off to the red herring affordable housing. There is NO excuse for people or enities to take money from hard working innocent people for shabby illegal housing and not be prepared to provide smoke detectors, the least costly of any safety device one could install. I would bet $1,000.00 the Gerbers have smoke detectors in their personal residence. When you are an "investor" and provide housing as a profession or even a side line, you MUST and may I repeat MUST be at least ready to provide for the most basic of safety for the people you are contracted to and taking money from, ignorance is no excuse. I think many folks involved here even at arms length may be culpable in a criminal act, and may I repeat that, a CRIMINAL act. There are city council members in this article admitting to knowledge and culpability, in this article, read it, maybe you cant sue city hall, but what do you want to bet this family brings anybody and everybody they can into a law suit
And so it should be, this should NEVER happen again to one of our citizens, nobody deserves to die in their own home waiting for dinner because of the greed that goes into providing housing in Steamboat Springs, Colorado or any where for that matter.
June 21, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rsssco (anonymous) says...
condoguy
Thank you for the follow-up. Well said!
June 21, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
armchairqb (anonymous) says...
Is there anyone on City Council who has apartments that they rent out??????? Are they legal???????? Just a thought.
June 21, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
armchair, they better make them legal, who ever owns them if any at all. They better be inspected by the fire marshall and brought up to safety standards. This is no 3rd world country, this is the United States of America.
Anybody who has any knowledge of such housing is morally responsible to report these situations and see that they are up to standards.
As lewie has said the city is not going to go around and replace smoke detector batteries, BUT, anybody in good conscience has got to know that we, they, us me, has done all we can to insure the safety of our citizens, I am ready to bawl just writting this thinking that there could have been a child in that apartment.
I am sick over this, I just can't believe this happened.
June 21, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BoatMaster (anonymous) says...
I really don't want to say anything bad about the poor person who lost their life but I want to address those who are leaving comments.
Sometimes you have to make your own decisions and not always expect others to make them for you. We all know what a smoke detector is. You can purchase one yourself without expecting others to do it for you.
Yes, owners of properties should put detectors in especially if they are renting on a nightly basis. You can't expect tourists to bring detectors.
But if you are renting long term like many people do, you have the ability to purchase your own detector and not blame others if there is not one there.
I am not saying anything bad about this unfortunate and sad incident. I am just saying that we should not always blame others for our actions or non actions.
Everyone go out and buy a smoke detector or replace your batteries in the one you have. Don't wait for someone else to do it for you.
June 21, 2008 at 7:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hubiem (anonymous) says...
the town where i went to college had a code enforcement office that visited all rental units in the city at least once a year to make sure that all codes were met. they policed "illegal" units and policed peoples private homes if they saw some code issue. (like indoor furniture on an exterior porch) if a run down old town full of 100+ year old houses and poor college kids can do it, why can't steamboat do it? there is more money here than in most places in the country.
we can't afford to have someone drive around and look for illegal rental units? it is pretty easy to drive past a house and see if a garage looks like someone is living in it. the article says that "the city has records of all registered secondary units." how hard is it to hand someone a list of all these units and then have them look around for housing units that aren't on the list.
June 21, 2008 at 8:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zacman (Zac Brennan) says...
The Dream Island 'motel' building has families living in what were motel rooms when originally built. Most are from Central or South America and poor. I doubt there are smoke detectors in place. Fire codes are probably being broken and more people are at risk. Maybe the fire marshals could start looking at this obvious location asap?
June 21, 2008 at 9:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
2007 (anonymous) says...
I am curious to know what the regulations are for rentals in Steamboat. I would assume that if a condo is being used as a legal rental unit, that it would have safe. Are there requirements for smoke and CO detectors in nightly/weekly rentals?
I moved from a state where even in the 1980s, a fire inspection certificate had to be presented at a house closing to verify that working smoke detectors existed in the house being sold. The law has been expanded to include CO detectors. This state also requires CO and smoke detectors for every rental unit in the state.
Not a bad idea for Colorado and Steamboat if it doesn't already exist.
June 21, 2008 at 11:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spukomy (anonymous) says...
foodchain, So Dave's sobriety plays a role? And the lack of alarms is Dave's fault? This is your idea of personal responsibility?
The landlord never paid proper taxes for the structure on his property. He never paid Federal income taxes for the rent he collected. He never got a CO for his rental unit. He never put any fire prevention devices or hoses in or around his building. He can claim ignorance, but he knew there was this structure on that lot when he bought the place. So who bears the responsibility?
Go ahead and blame Dave. He's still smiling on you.
June 22, 2008 at 2:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
colobob (anonymous) says...
Poor taste foodchain! Very poor!
June 22, 2008 at 7:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandl (anonymous) says...
Dear foodchain- What's it like down there? Anytime a person can leave a legacy of friendship such as the one Dave left, in my book, it's indication of a life well lived.
June 22, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
colobob (anonymous) says...
Here's a call to all those posting on this thread to come together. To those who have not already done so I am requesting that anyone with even a shred of decency call for the removal of foodchains heartless and pathetic post above. I'm clicking now and I would ask all to join me in doing so.
June 22, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BoatMaster (anonymous) says...
Freedom of speech = let foodchains comments stay
You don't have to agreee with what is written, but you should allow all opinions.
June 22, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
colobob (anonymous) says...
Boat with all due respects opinions are fine, slander and defamation of character are not, especially since the deceased is not able to defend himself. This reeks more of cowadice and his personal remarks invalidate whatever opinion was being offered.
June 22, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
colobob, I did not even finish your post to let you know you do not stand alone, I could not agree with you more, chains remarks are unconscionable, disgusting, and repugnant, no need for that what so ever, not relevent at all.
I only advocate leaving his/her posts up as a testament to the ignorance some people have to our responsibility to each other and the law.
God bless you and your good thinking.............
June 22, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
colo bob, with all due respect to you and David, I would not ask for the removal of foodchains posts, here is why:
foodchain, and others, I do not care to see the reports regarding toxins, this does not matter to me one bit, if David was very intoxicated and totally out of personal control does not matter to me, what matters to me is that there are LAWS that are in place to protect us even from ourselves, the basics of those laws are fire and building codes, this is what separates us from lesser developed countries or states.
You and I are every bit legally and morally responsible to protect David, I dont care if he was plastered out of his mind, we are guilty of allowing him to fall asleep and die in his own home while he was simply cooking dinner.
The owner of the property who had a contract with David, written or verbal, none the less a contract for time and money, to provide a housing unit in the city of Steamboat Springs is LEGALLY liable to provide the basics of protection and safety, proper egress, smoke detectors, are the minimum. The way it looks is this apartment had neither.
Shame on you and I, shame on the city of Steamboat Springs, shame on the owners of this property, and shame on anybody who has been complicent in the marketing or transfer of this property from owner to owner, we are all guilty of letting this beautiful human being die in this edifice, only waiting for dinner and maybe conking out.
foodchains posts are important in the regard that it may be how you think but it is not how the law works, regardless of your or my opinion, heads are going to roll over this, there is a entire chain of responsibility and LIABILITY involved here nobody deserves to die like this, it is so to the core of our values that we have laws in place to protect us from events that are so obviously dangerous,
If I were involved in this property I would be talking to my attorney hoping to avoid being named in a negligent homicide charge.
David did nothing wrong, he was living his life, as we all do, no different than you or I.
God bless him and all who love him.
June 22, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
weallnutz (anonymous) says...
If we start taking responsibility for our own lives and actions we could stop making laws on top of laws. It's called common sense.
I just bought a camper. When I brought it home I realized the smoke detectors were missing. Did I try to close down the dealership???...no-I simply replaced them(the detectors).
It is sad to hear of the death. No one wants that to happen to a human...it's sad and unfortunate. Lets not punish and make laws. Lets all get fresh batteries for our detectors, look both ways before crossing a road and take responsibility for our lives.
June 22, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
colobob (anonymous) says...
condo, I agree with a great deal of what you have said. However the personal remarks made by chain crossed the line. Maybe I'm all alone on this one, and if so, I'll stand alone. No one believes in ones constitutional rights any more than I do but within those rights there are acceptable limits. I believe the personal attack on David far exceeded those limits. So, if I stand alone here, so be it. There are very few opinions, whether I agree with them or not that I don't respect. Chains callous and cold hearted statements regardless of the point he was trying to make are however among the "very few" that I have absolutely no respct for. Sounds more to me like someone has an axe to grind rather than offering a constructive opinion.
June 22, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Steamboatmom1 (anonymous) says...
It doesn't matter on how intoxicated this man was. What really needs to be addressed is the smoke detector. Why should the renter have to buy this? This should automatically be put in by the owner. It's there unit. They purchased it. So therefore, it should be there responsibility to ensure the safety of the unit. Yes, maybe he could have asked for one to be installed. And maybe he did ask, we don't know. The bottom line is that this didn't need to happen if the owners would have installed one before they rented out the apartment. When they bought the place they should have inquired if it was a legal apartment and if it has ever been inspected for safety. Those who are renting trust the landlords that everything is up to code and that they will fix what isn't. All I can say is that this was a tragedy that didn't need to happen. It's really hard to play the blame game. Everyone one involved all played a part in this tragedy. Now what needs to be done is to tighten the reigns on illegal units so that this type of tragedy doesn't happen again. Or is a human life not worth anything to anyone anymore these days. For each person that dies it affects a string of people who loved them. Food for thought!!
Have a Wonderful day!
June 22, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
colobob, I finished your post, you are good to go.......
Steamboatmom, God bless you also, well said, Davids mom lost her son, this makes me ache, I love my son so,,, he is not perfect,,, it's easy to love the perfect people......................
June 22, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BoatMaster (anonymous) says...
This discussion here happened I think as a result of this tragedy being blamed on a shortage of housing and the "irresponsibility" of the owners of this property. AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
This accident was not caused by either of the above actions. Who knows if there were smoke detectors at one time and they were removed? Who knows that this person did not WANT to live there instead of being forced to live there because of no affordable housing? Even if there were smoke detectors would this person have woke up and left the building in Time?? Who knows. There is a reason he just fell deep asleep while cooking. Perhaps he was very tired and would not have heard the alarm anyway? We don't know.
So let's stop blaming the city, and the owners of the property. We are responsible for our own actions and this was a tragedy at the least. The city can't check every property and everything everyone wants without larger staff and higher taxes.
This story could have easily said there were smoke detectors and had the same outcome. Don't blame others.
June 22, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
sorry boat, the law is the law, the rules and regulations in the way of statutes are there for a reason, there is negligence here, it cost us a human life, make no mistake about it others are to blame, finding a procecuter may be another thing, but finding a attorney that will take this case and pursue each and everybody or entity that had anything to do with this property won't be a problem.
If you are involved you can whistle past the graveyard but I would dig deep......................
June 22, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
foodchain (anonymous) says...
From the position of a property owner/ landlord I can tell you this:Certainly I agree that the landlord should keep his property up to code.
I am in favor of 100% code enforcement and elimination of all of the shanty type "housing" in old town that currently exists.
Many of these units are occupied by "long term locals" who fight against their landlord for their entitlement to live in old town.
I my experience, tenants in the type of secondary unit at issue, especially those who have lived in the unit long term can be uncooperative and combative with the efforts of the landlord. There are occasions in which a landlord can "inherit" a tenant in an illegal secondary unit.
Are any of you aware of how difficult it can be to evict these tenants?
There have been several eviction cases in the past few years in which OUR DISTRICT COURT JUDGES have refused to evict "at will" tenants in ILLEGAL units. Judge Shelley Hill, for example, has ruled essentially that the illegality of the secondary unit is not a matter within the District Court's jurisdiction and allowed the tenants to remain against the wishes of the landlord.
So, what I am telling you is that I know that the Courts can and do thwart the efforts of property owners to evict residents from illegal units.
I agree that Landlords have certain responsibilities. So do tenants.
Do you realize that District Court Judges enable the occupation of illegal units in Steamboat Springs? Have any of you ever had to face combative and intoxicated squatters on your property? You would think that it would be easy to legally get rid of them but it is not.
The event that is the topic of the thread may cause the Courts and the City to finally cooperate with LANDLORDS and property owners who try to oust the residence from illegal unsafe units.
Is anyone here aware of any situations in which parents have children residing in homes, apts or secondary units that are not up to code? Call child protective services and make a report and file a complaint with the City. Maybe something will come of it after all of this.
June 22, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dundalk (anonymous) says...
Food:
While I agree with your initial post, perhaps the timing could have been better.
June 22, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...
foodchain, I am a property owner, I own lots of property, I have owned property since 1964, you were just a twinkle in your fathers eye when my beloved father helped me buy a duplex. The part of my job I hate is dealing with the situations and people you discribe I feel your pain.
There is NO excuse to allow for the delapidation and deterioration of safety in a property, NONE, there are vehicles of the law that allow for the attention to these matters.
I have a qualified attorney on call to help me at least have a record of my actions involving problems, I know the people you are referring to, no matter how obstinate they are you MUST provide for their safety, you are personally liable.
The same judge that denied your eviction, will prosecute you for neglect and you know it.
I will say it again, sombody may very well be subject to negligent homocide here, I hope it is not you................
June 22, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
elk2 (anonymous) says...
foodchain: if you hate being a landlord so much maybe you should shut your pie hole and get out of the business. You sound like a jerk. David was a good and kind person, you have no right using him for your rants.
If you'd like to address this issue do it in the proper forum, this is not the proper place.
June 22, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
foodchain (anonymous) says...
Will someone please reveal for how many years Mr. Engle lived in this unit?
I suspect that he may have been in residence prior to the current owners purchasing the property.
Did the current owners make any attempt to evict him? Maybe not. They could have known that such attempt would likely be futile.
I am aware of tenants who intentionally remove smoke detectors because the sound of the alarm when set off by their cigarette smoke in close quarters annoys them.
As landlord, am I required to check a unit every day to re-install the smoke detectors that the tenants disable?
I am not opining that Mr. Engle disabled his smoke detector. But I can state with absolute certainty that there are units all over old town in which the tenants do not cooperate with the efforts of the landlord to keep the unit safe and up to code.
When enforcement steps up, economics will dictate that many of these tenants will be driven out of the old town rental market. Just a cold, calculating heartless theory and opinion to which I am ENTITLED.
June 22, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
elk2 (anonymous) says...
p.s. I have been a landlord, it sucks, that is why I no longer have rental property.
June 22, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MtnWarlock (anonymous) says...
foodchain,
As usual, we read your sultry commentary in wonder of where the intelligence was contrived! To attack a misfortuned diseased persons integrity with the masquerade of artificial intelligence of the subject, is like shooting a dead man in the back and taking merit for a heroic task! Please! You have no respect, as you have exhibited in many of your blogs! Could you please spare us the thankless bullsh!t you spew and take heart! Sometimes it's funny to see how you can pull peoples chain but yet, it's so senseless and most times it's rude! Today you produced a new low, thanks!
All,
It is my opinion that the owners may be liable and negligent of wrongful death. Code does exist for rental property or space. It sounds to me like this was an illegal tenancy. Maybe the tenant agreed to it however, I feel it is the landlord's responsibility to rent under code conditions, not the tenant. It sounds to me like this may have been an illegal space for rent. In a time when things are tough and affordable housing is scarce, we find people doing all kinds of things to live here. Whether they live in cars, tents, stow rooms, campers, or even hidden in public bathrooms, our problem is now front page news and we have an accidental death to prove it. I do not see this situation getting any better for the foreseeable future! My condolences go out to Mr. Engles family and the Gerbers for such an unfortunate accident. Maybe something positive can come out of this negative situation and Mr Engles death will not be in vein. Have a good day!
June 22, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Ted_Bell (anonymous) says...
mtn warlock, to what "disease" of the man do you refer?
be careful, you may have just committed slander (unless your assertion that the man had a disease is true). just wondering.
I hope that there will be no more deaths "in vein" but the scourge of alcoholism and substance abuse is present in your town and is enabled by many.
Getting rid of known illegal secondary units and rental unit drug dens in old town would be a good start.
People tend to treat property they own differently than property they do not own. Something to think about.
June 22, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sean_knorp (anonymous) says...
It seems there are at least a couple of issues here. One, if a person is intoxicated to the point of being passed out, I doubt a smoke detector would awaken them. Two, any law lacking the proper enforcement is ineffective because we cannot count on people to follow the law simply because it is the law. People are living life as though there are no rules and I believe we are well on the way to becoming a lawless society. Look at our driving habits as one huge example if you question my statement. I knew David and am saddened that he died whatever the circumstances. My thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family.
June 22, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MtnWarlock (anonymous) says...
Ted_Bell,
Thanks for the reminder of typos! Deceased! I believe that their is no reference made to a personal problem, nor was one insinuated. Have a good day!
June 23, 2008 at 4:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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