Steamboat Today: Housing forum addresses future needs in the Yampa Valley

Archive for Monday, June 2, 2008

City Community Housing Coordinator Nancy Engelken, left, and Yampa Valley Housing Authority Executive Director Donna Howell spoke to 40 people about work force housing options Friday.

By Tom Ross Monday, June 2, 2008

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Steamboat Springs — Two of the valley's leading affordable housing experts addressed the question: "Will your children be able to afford to live here?" before an audience of 40 at an affordable housing forum Friday.

More specifically, Nancy Engelken and Donna Howell answered the rhetorical question "If your children someday purchases deed-restricted housing in Steamboat Springs, will they build any equity? And will they have a chance to sell that home in order to trade up to a market rate home somewhere else?"

The answer is "yes," Howell said. She is the executive director of the Yampa Valley Housing Authority. Engelken is the community housing coordinator for the city of Steamboat Springs.

At the forum put on by the Steamboat Springs Chamber Resort Association, Howell offered specific examples of how a qualifying buyer of deed-restricted housing here could more than double their investment in an affordable home during the course of five years.

"You do have an opportunity to have some buying up," Howell said. "There is some appreciation. When you look at it, it's better than renting."

Howell offered the hypothetical case of a household earning 80 percent of the area median income - $48,450 for two people and $54,500 for three people. With a 10 percent down payment on a $200,000 deed- restricted home, they could realize a 296 percent return in five years, she said. That assumes a deed restriction that allows 3 percent annual appreciation, payment of principle and tax benefits of home ownership.

Engelken told the gathering she is exploring options for employer-assisted housing projects that could be put in place here. Such public/private partnerships have worked well in other parts of the country and, in some cases, allow employers to write a check to defray the cost of affordable housing for a specific number of employees, and then turn the administrative chores over to the public sector.

The financial mechanisms used in employer-assisted housing programs vary, she added. One example is a revolving loan fund that makes it easier for employees making 120 percent of the area median income to qualify to purchase the market-rate housing they desire.

Friday's forum will be followed on June 27 with a discussion of what other communities in the region are doing to meet housing needs, and on July 25 with a discussion of funding strategies.

The series of forums is sponsored by the Chamber's Economic Development Council, Steamboat Ski & Resort Corp., the Steamboat Board of Realtors, First Tracks by Resort Ventures West, Colorado Mountain College and the city.

elk2 (anonymous) says...

Donna Howell does not care about people without a home. She cares about her paycheck.

June 2, 2008 at 6:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

colowoodsman (anonymous) says...

The biggest factor working against affordable housing is the tourism industry. The first step has to eliminate any city susidy, support, bennifits, perks or what ever for the industry whose main product is housing/lodging. If I remember correctly there is federally subsidized housing behind the Shell Station that is 'locked up' for tourism employees.

June 2, 2008 at 6:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

housebound (anonymous) says...

I am afraid to say anything they might conduct another study and make more laws to resrict building apartments.

June 2, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Scott_Wedel (Scott Wedel) says...

Nice use of statistics to mislead. Include all benefits of owning a house, but leave out the expense of maintaining it.

Even if you accept that $20K down become a $60K equity and tax savings in 5 years, if real estate market goes up 5% a year for 5 years then would the buyers of the deed restricted house be able to afford anything else? The $250K house they couldn't quite afford (needing a loan of $230K) would now be a $325K house they were further away from affording (need a loan of $265K).

The real way to get affordable housing is to build it and all around we see how it was done. Build 900 sq ft homes without granite countertops on 1/10 of an acre lots.

June 2, 2008 at 2:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ThreeJobs (anonymous) says...

Donna, are you NUTS? You completely ignored reality in order to make your case. How about working with the numbers after taking into consideration:

"Take home" pay not gross pay before taxes
What is left to spend on housing after Food, health insurance, transportation and other necessities

What the payment would be on a $180K with insurance, taxes, and maintenance. (maybe HOA fees too)

Where I would get 20K PLUS closing costs to enter this black hole?

What are the chances that I would find a smuck , let alone one who would "qualify" keeping in mind the restrictions on the place (income and otherwise), to sell the house to at your projected figures?

WHAT 200K PROPERTY? LOL!!!

Donna, you are surely old enough to remember Ann Landers. I'm quite sure she would tell you, "Honey, you're living in a dream world!"

Get a reality check and move off of this single track thinking. If you really want to impact the situation use your position and funds to encourage developers to build apartments. Get the city to recognize that the real problem with housing costs is the restrictions put on land use. You can do nothing to reduce the costs of labor (are you going to pay me even less than I make now to build this stuff?) or materials BUT you can support expansion to reduce land costs.

And finally, here's a fact that the well meaning (?) but totally out of contact with reality proponents of "affordable housing" ignore. I CAN'T ( and won't)AFFORD TO TAKE THE RISK FOR THE DUBIOUS REWARD BECAUSE I HAVE A WORKING BRAIN.

Just encourage developers to build a rental that doesn't cost everything I make. Subsidize, if necessary, public transportation from the area to town. This is a direction that will work. The current "affordable housing" direction in SB if it works at all will only benefit a VERY few--and that group may only be the ones getting a paycheck to promote and "manage " (LOL again!) this pipe dream.

June 2, 2008 at 4:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

OnTheBusGus (anonymous) says...

Where is this $200K home?

June 2, 2008 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rsssco (anonymous) says...

How many layers of government bureaucrats do we have working on this issue? How many tax dollars are being spent on bureaucrats and programs administreing these layers of programs? How many tax dollars are being spent on the two bureaucrats pictured above? Why do we need both of them in such a small area working the same issue?
SP&T--How about some reporting on the amount of dollars going into the administration of these programs?
Could not the salary of one of these women be better put to assisting a family directly with a grant or stipend?

June 2, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ColoradoNative (anonymous) says...

I hate to say this but both of these gals need to be fired. The whole program scraped and a focus on traffic/absorbing the madness of 700. Prices will fall over the valley when they get cranking there.

I don't think the fine folks at the housing authority took Econ 101.

Remember the concept of supply vs demand?

June 2, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

grannyrett (anonymous) says...

I think someone lives in la-la land. They surely aren't talking about here.

June 2, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SilverSpoon (anonymous) says...

Come now, donna leads by example. People should work at 80% ami on one job, and have a school district suppliment their income with another $130k/yr. If we were all smart enough to work the system, we'd all be living in the sanctuary on the tax payers dollar. Just another FYI, there are hundreds of forclosures in denver. If "our kids" can't afford to live here, maybe they should go where they can afford to live. Steamboat is for the priviliged or hard working, not people looking for handouts.

June 2, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

rsssssss

You are 100% correct. We didn't need Howell's high-priced salary to run the school system, and we sure don't need her being "in charge" of another body that will not get anything useful done.

June 2, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

vanguy (anonymous) says...

Here is how our local workforce can attain housing in a free Steamboat real estate market.

Start in the most reasonably priced condo, as many before you have. (Try Walton Village, The Pines, Subalpine, Shadow Run, Meadowlark, to name a few)

Regardless of whether the property appreciates over time, you will build your own equity over a few years.

Paying rent simply builds equity for your landlord.

Also, the tax deduction on your mortgage interest is HUGE.

Then create a plan to save some additional money, stay disciplined to your plan, and try cutting out a few unnecessary expenses. (ie...new gear, bar tabs, starbucks).

After a few years, you'll be surprised how much cash you have put away. Avoid the temptation to spend it on a new car, snowmobile, bike, or international vacation.

Or you can try partnering together to purchase with a few friends as "equity roommates".

Three bedrooms = Three occupants = Three incomes.

All of the sudden, your collective incomes qualify you for much more home. (Safety & Power in numbers)

Talk with some lenders (and possibly an attorney) about your plan. Co-purcase as Tenants in Common, create and sign a partnership agreement that details the terms of ownership / plans for sale / buying out other partners / equity disbursement, etc.

Again, many locals have done this in the past to get their start.

And don't forget about USDA loans, which can really help lower-income or first-time buyers in Routt County.

It's hard to make a home in Steamboat, but there are solutions if you seek them out. Nothing comes easy, and sometimes you have to start small, take your time, have a plan, and most importantly, stick to the plan.

June 2, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JustAsking (anonymous) says...

Vanguy,
So you are suggesting hard work, sacrifice, and commitment?

What an interesting idea! I wonder if the local socialist would even consider such a revolutionary idea.

But then again that sounds like delayed gratification. It won't sell nearly as well as "FREE" and "Let someone else pay for me!"

Hard to keep your job as the "Affordable Housing Czar" by telling people what they don't want to hear.

June 2, 2008 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ColoradoNative (anonymous) says...

So where are these 200k homes she speaks of? Anyone?

So if the deed restricted units are capped at 3% annual appreciation what is the cap on losses?

Sounds unthinkable under current conditions but you just never know. Is our socialist government going to step in if home prices drop and a family that owns a deed restricted wants to sell their home but don't have the equity to do so?

I find the hole concept of our local government hand choosing people and deeming them more worthy of a cheap home over another hard working family is just plain wrong.

They can't even give homes away in the cities and our government here feels it's their responsibility to mess with free market conditions?

If things go south in the future our "housing leaders" will be the first ones to say "Well it's not my fault".

June 3, 2008 at 2:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Whattha (anonymous) says...

"Steamboat Springs - Two of the valley's leading affordable housing experts" LOL!

So tell us Mr. Ross what qualifies these "leading affordable housing experts" as EXPERTS?

Does a PHD in education automatically qualify a person to be a "leading affordable housing expert"?

Nice work Mr. Ross, another fine indepth job, here's your Kool-aid, drink up now.

June 3, 2008 at 4:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...

Good job id, are you sure you are not sbvor, some terrific thinking in that post, sometimes the best information, and the most sense is efficiently communicated in the form of a story.............

June 4, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

condo . . .

The thing that people around here forget to do most often is take the step up.

June 4, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

I think she probably has an Ed.D rather than a PhD. I could be wrong.

An Ed.D is sorta like a Th.D as are most of the other "terminal degrees" which require something like a detailed book report for their dissertations.

What we really need are some people with BS degrees working on the problem. Of course, if there was a solution, the BS degree people WOULD be working on the problem. The most anyone is going to do without a large supply of money to give away to people who want more than they can afford to buy is just talk about it until the people with the problem move away.

From what I see in some other threads and posts on the forum, people are discovering that they can move to other areas, make a better life for themselves and their kids, and not be stressed out over money all the time.

I think that's the answer to affordable housing. Move to a place where you can afford a house.

I wonder how many people buy lottery tickets every week looking for a miraculous way out of their housing jam? I'll admit I've done it, but stopped when I never won anything and I got my life back in order.

THE DONKEY

One day a farmer's donkey fell down into a well.
The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do.
Finally, he decided the animal was old, and the well needed to be covered up anyway;
it just wasn't worth it to retrieve the donkey.

He invited all his neighbors to come over and help him.
They all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well.
At f irst, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly.
Then, to everyone's amazement he quieted down.

A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well.
He was astonished at what he saw.
With each shovel of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing.
He would shake it off and take a step up.

As the farmer's neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal,
he would shake it off and take a step up.
Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey stepped up
over the edge of the well and happily trotted off!

MORAL :
Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt.
The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up.
Each of our troubles is a steppingstone.
We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up !
Shake it off and take a step up.

Remember the five simple rules to be happy:

1. Free your heart from hatred - Forgive.

2. Free your mind from worries - Most never happens.

3. Live simply and appreciate what you have.

4. Give more.

5. Expect less from people but more from God.

June 3, 2008 at 10:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

armchairqb (anonymous) says...

Coloradonative----Donna Howell would probably love to get fired. What will her buyout be this time???If that happens I would love to be her right hand person so I could get free money too.

June 4, 2008 at 1:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

shadow (anonymous) says...

I'd like someone to showing me a building lot in the Stmbt vicinity for $200K.

June 5, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justathought (anonymous) says...

armchair, are you telling us that in the event you had a contract job and they wanted to get rid of you by buying out your contract, you would say no, keep your money, I'll just leave because you want me too? The school board gave her the contract, they agreed to the rules, and you want to blame Howell for getting paid, seems like your b!tch should be with those giving away the "free money".

June 4, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SilverSpoon (anonymous) says...

We do need doctors to find a solution, Dr. J, Dr. Dre, come help poor steamboat springs colorado; our housing bubble is popping like the rest of the country.
1600 units on the market, 1/8 under contract.

June 4, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

colowoodsman (anonymous) says...

id- we all know what BS stands for and MS is just More of the Same. And Phd means Piled higher and deeper. There's an old saying that goes "If it's not broke- don't fix it". But in this case the 'System' is definitely broke. There are two things wrong with your solution. 1) You automatically assume that people that are struggling just to pay rent can somehow come up with enough cash to pull up stakes and start over somewhere else. 2) If all those struggling workers were to leave at once it would put a big dent in the local workforce. We need to get at the root of the problem and quit putting one 'bandaid' on top of another. The root of this problem is City involvement in the tourist/lodging industry. Period.

June 4, 2008 at 2:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

Woody,

There's nothing here to support the business base other than tourist dollars except dollars that flow in from sources of income that don't involve getting up and going to work every day (such as pensions, trust funds, etc.). If there was enough open land we could build houses and keep people employed in construction, but then where do the new residents work except in the tourist industry?

Housing prices are down a little bit right now, which means that some places will come avilable as rentals if they don't go into foreclosure.

Your little joke and BS and MS is a common theme among people who don't have to think for a living, but the "S" stands for "science" and that means math and hard facts.

Until the local market collapses to the point that mortgage lenders foreclose, places get auctioned off to the highest bidder, and prices actually come down to more realistically reflect the cost of land without the speculative "boom" prices built in (meaning you pay mostly for the cost of building the house rather than for the land it's sitting on), working people around here are not going to be able to qualify for mortgages on what they can make in Steamboat.

I lived in a town where the workforce was cut in half by defense cutbacks in the early 90s. Half of the houses in town were sitting empty at one point, without even a renter. Many homes went into foreclosure. It took around 8 years for that inventory of houses to be bought up (many retirees moved in due to the low housing purchase prices and warm weather in the desert). I lived in the same rental house for seven years and paid $550 a month for it all that time because the landlord was grateful just to have somebody in it. I didn't buy a house because I knew I would move back to Colorado when I could swing it financially, and I didn't want to be stuck with something I could not sell when I got ready to leave.

My belief is that, if the local market collapses, it will just lower the cost of second homes for out of town people who can still afford them. We will probably see retirees from other towns coming in and paying bargain prices which are still way beyond the means of people working for wages in Routt County.

The housing bargains for wage earners will be in other places. When you say that people cannot "pull up stakes," you imply they will have a choice. I'd be more worried about the jobs leaving as businesses close than about the workforce defecting to other places and hurting business.

You raise the issue all the time; what do YOU suggest we do around here to support the town without tourist dollars? What's the other choice that is actually a viable, profit-making enterprise to bring money to town?

People with the "S" have already done the math and understand that there's nothing that can be done way up here 70 miles off the interstate highway that can't be done cheaper in a place like Denver, Grand Junction or Salt Lake City.

June 4, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

thecondoguy1 (anonymous) says...

id you got that right, we have seen soft real estate markets here before, people have very short memories, I am all over that 1600 properties on the market, only 12% under contract, you can cut that in half when the speculators drop off and they won't do that until they are confronted with actually having to pay for a property and close on it. The easy float is out of the money borrowing game for now, the wheeler dealers will have to barf up cash for their flippers, and most don't remember that concept..........................

June 5, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

colowoodsman (anonymous) says...

id- lighten up! If you didn't like the joke just say so. I suppose you have never heard of TIC or Smartwool or telecommunicating. At one time their was a factory on Pinegrove Road that made hypodermic needles. I know of a business in town that cleans valves for nuclear submarines. I know of one local business that is a steel broker. Seen any steel mills here? Given all the beattle kill this would be an excellent time to reestablish a timber industry and/or start getting into renewable energy. The point is that as long as tourism has an unfair advantage in the housing market other businesses cannot grow because of a lack of affordable housing.

June 5, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

Woody,

Guess I missed the irony. I thought I was the only one using irony on the forum .

Hey, I'm a telecommuter. I know what can be done.

Those beetle killed trees might be good for making wood pellets for fuel, but lumber? I don't know. I've suggested using the trees before, but somebody always has a reason why it's not practical, which I guess makes sense, because otherwise someone would be doing it already.

Our setback in business is the cost of transportation and our remote location from markets and sources of supply. We could clean up if we could get United Airlines to move their telephone center from India to Steamboat, but then air fares would go up.

Wal-Mart's headquarters is in Bentonville, Arkansas. Why? It's a very cheap place to live, and they pay low wages.

There's just no way around the fact that buildable land is scarce in Routt County for lots of reasons (not the least of which is soil conditions that prohibit wells and septic systems without 5 to 36 acres of land per dwelling). I haven't worked out the analysis on it, but my instict tells me that the break point where a business can get established and be competitive and profitable depends to a great deal on the cost of labor. Labor needs a place to live. You can't start a business here and pay high wages and compete with somebody who can start the same business somewhere else and pay less. Microsoft could move here, but why would they? Google? Whatever product was made here, either intellectual property or some kind of hard goods, would have to be unique to this area to prevent somebody else from making it cheaper elsewhere.

Skiing is the one thing we have that you can't move to another state where prices are lower. That's why it makes everything else in town possible.

June 5, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )