Our View: Less talk, more action

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Editorial Board, May 2008 to August 2008

  • Bryna Larsen, publisher
  • Brent Boyer, editor
  • Mike Lawrence, city editor
  • Tom Ross, reporter
  • Eric Morris, community representative
  • Paul Draper, community representative

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The availability of adequate athletic fields continues to be one of the biggest hurdles between Triple Crown Sports and a long-term contract with the Northwest Colorado communities that play host to the tournaments each summer. That hurdle arose again this week when it was revealed that Triple Crown wants to use Emerald Park fields as part of a proposed two-year contract extension.

Triple Crown President Dave King has said for years he won't continue to bring his youth and adult baseball and softball tournaments to the Yampa Valley unless more and better fields are provided. King, who consistently has lobbied for use of the Emerald Park fields, also has been a proponent of a new regional sports complex that would include more than a dozen playing fields at a specific site. But numerous obstacles stand in the way of such a complex, particularly location and cost.

The result is the proposed two-year contract extension between Triple Crown and the city. King wants use of the Emerald Park fields from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. four days a week during the World Series softball and baseball tournaments. The World Series tournaments make up three weeks of the 10-week Triple Crown schedule.

City-owned Emerald Park is off Pamela Lane between downtown Steamboat Springs and the mountain area. The park is adjacent to the western boundary of Yampa River Botanic Park. Pamela Lane provides the only vehicular access to Emerald Park, and Pamela Lane residents always have been promised that Triple Crown games would never be held at those fields.

But keeping Triple Crown games out of Emerald Park shouldn't be the issue. After all, a variety of sports games and tournaments are held at Emerald Park throughout the summer, including Little League, lacrosse and soccer tournaments that bring an equal number of cars and people - if not more. Those events pose the same problem as Triple Crown tournaments - a glut of vehicular traffic on Pamela Lane.

Ultimately, the issue with Emerald Park is the lack of secondary access. The access issue isn't new and is not easily resolved. Creating direct road access from U.S. Highway 40 to Emerald Park would necessitate an easement from Union Pacific Railroad, whose tracks run between U.S. 40 and the park. Such an access would be expensive and difficult to build.

With a short-term answer to secondary access extremely unlikely, we're forced to return to the issue of a lack of fields to satisfy Triple Crown's needs. Discussions about a regional sports complex to be built in Hayden are ongoing, but there has been resistance from local governments as to who should fund the complex and to what degree. The bottom line is that Northwest Colorado must decide whether it wants Triple Crown to have a long-term presence here. If so, local governments, the Chamber, private businesses and Triple Crown must turn talk into action.

We remain convinced that Triple Crown is an essential and necessary component of our summer tourism economy, particularly given the absence of any other major tourism driver during the non-ski months.

An economic impact study commissioned by the Yampa Valley Economic Development Council in fall 2006 stated that the athletic tournaments bring about 32,000 visitors and $1.19 million in sales and lodging tax revenues to Northwest Colorado every summer.

Critics of Triple Crown argue that other events could bring in similar revenues, but as we've said before, there aren't many events for which one vendor will supply thousands of tourists for extended stays every week for 10 weeks.

In the meantime, the city and Chamber must negotiate in good faith with Pamela Lane residents if the Emerald Park fields are to be used by Triple Crown. All parties that negotiated the existing agreement should be involved in any changes to that agreement.

Comments

elkeye 6 years, 1 month ago

"Your View" on Triple Crown is probably supported by fewer residents of Steamboat Springs than "Your View" that the voters should have supported referendums 2B and 2C in the last election, to construct and operate a $34 million recreation center at Ski Town Fields.

"In a vote as lopsided as any we can remember, voters tossed aside a proposal for a taxpayer-funded $34 million recreation center."

It is time that the whole question of Triple Crown Sports be put to a vote of the citizens of the City of Steamboat Springs.

In the meantime, the City Council should support the Pamela Lane residents and continue to deny Triple Crown Sports the use of the Emerald Park fields.

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Token 6 years, 1 month ago

Yep, its time. Let us all vote our opinion and be done with it.

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longtimelocal 6 years, 1 month ago

You have got to be kidding. The citizens on Pamela Lane and Brooklyn (River Road) have way too much traffic as it is. Triple Crown individuals generally speaking are rude, loud, obnoxious, and have a terrible effect on traffic and general enjoyment of our town during the summer. How about slow down the growth, enjoy what we have, and quit making silly comments about how desperate we are to keep them here for our economy. If you want Denver, move there, if you want Boulder, move there. I have live here since birth (1961) and Triple Crown in my view has had one of the biggest single damaging effects on our town as any I have ever seen.

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addlip2U 6 years, 1 month ago

Members of the City Council and Chamber, you would not want that kind of traffic going through your neighborhood. Why would you impose it on those on Pamela Lane just to gain a few dollars? You were elected by the citizens of this community, now represent them. Stop being so money hungry; preserve our valley from the Triple Crown invasion aka Plague!

We, the citizens of Steamboat no longer welcome those that abuse the generosity and hospitality and frankly we have had enough of "them".

Triple Crown is a Business. Let D King purchase the land and build the facilities wherever he pleases. If it is not Steamboat, most of the residents heart will not be broken. We will rejoice.

And that will finally trigger the "AhA" moment for Chamber to market to more desirable level of tourists to visit Steamboat. Let's get started, don't wait another two years and whine that you had no time to get ready.

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STEMBOATwannabe 6 years, 1 month ago

If there was off site parking for the mountain that offered shuttle survice in the winter, couldn't it also be used in the warmer weather for sporting events that attract large numbers?

Tourists are money makers. Everyone should be looking for solutions. Don't just shut down and hope they go away. Many businesses could thrive if the "season" was more year round.

Triple Crown may not be the ideal business to bring in tourist money, but there are probably other similar that would also bring their events to Steamboat.

Soccer and Baseball fields are not rocket science. They do not even need to be near town for tournaments. They just need to be a reasonalbe drive to a hotel/restaurant etc. A half hour drive from Steamboat would not be looked at as detrimental to many of the families that these tournaments may bring to the area.

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fishy 6 years, 1 month ago

how many visitors do you think have been turned off and run off from Steamboat when they come here and the town is overrun with Triple Crown? I'm tired of reading about the estimated money that we're going to lose if we don't have Triple Crown. what about all the (likely more desirable) tourists who will stay if we free the town from hordes of ball players and all the accompanying problems? personally, if I was visiting the Colorado mountains in the summer, I'd never come to Steamboat for that reason. there are plenty of other towns that would be better. In fact I feel like I have to leave town during July and August although I'd rather not.
Get rid of TC and give the town a couple of years to adjust.

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colowoodsman 6 years, 1 month ago

Translated from 'Politcaly Correct Doublespeak' to 'plain ol' English', "our economy" usually means 'my pocketbook'. The bulk of the revenues derrived from groups like TC fall into the hands of the Steamboat Exploiters while the rest of us have to put up with the noise,traffic and obnoxious behavior of these so called 'guests'.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

So, a "Steamboat Exploiter" is any business that they happen to frequent, no matter who it is?

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colowoodsman 6 years, 1 month ago

Matt, please read carefully- I said snowmobile and ATV 'TOURS'-which are buisnesses that often operate on public lands. I totally disagree with your theory that fewer tourist would lead to higher prices or that our supermarkets would go out of buisness. Tourism is what is driving up the price of land and housing! Ever heard of the economic law of suppy and demand. And why do we even need 10-15 jewelry and knick-knack stores anyway???

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elk2 6 years, 1 month ago

Matt, The H&R has so much $$ they have to keep making multi-million $$ improvements to remain a non profit.

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steamboatsconscience 6 years, 1 month ago

We were promised that Emerald Fields were to be for local use only, thats why we the taxpayers agreed to build them. that should be the end of the discussion. period. screw the "Cloggers"! (boatspeak for clog the grocery aisles, clog the streets, clog our sewer system, etc. etc......)

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colowoodsman 6 years, 1 month ago

'Steamboat Exploiters' are bankers, realtors, developers and speculators that are only interested in sucking as much money as they can out of the Steamboat area with total disregard for the long term degradation of the valley. Many do not even live here but are represented by property management companies.

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bloggyblog 6 years, 1 month ago

the analogy blog likes to use to describe the atmosphere in steamboat is' the gold rush'. sadly, many people don't see the open spaces and natural beauty we have as an asset. they see it as a means to cash in.

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Token 6 years, 1 month ago

sc is right; those fields would not even exist if that agreement was never made...they are off limits.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

Colowoodsman- True, but this is a tourist town, no matter what. I'd love to have summers to myself, but that happened back in the 80's for me, and made it hard to pay rent with no year-round jobs back then unless you were a lawyer or doctor. If someone can give the Chamber a better way to bring income to the valley to keep a year-round workforce in different industries, let's start talking about that.

Some people on the other thread keep give their opinion to just get of TC, but then say it's the Chamber's job to bring something different. Kinda skewed that way, it seems. I think if those who say the people should vote on who to kick out, they should offer an alternative to what should take it's place.

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Books 6 years, 1 month ago

Looks like the extra TC generated $500k in sales tax is exaggerated. The city sales tax reports don't show anywhere that much.

http://www.steamboatsprings.net/index.php?id=341

Total city sales tax per month 2007 (per city web site)

January:::::. 2,035,835

February.::::. 2,030,517

March..:::::. 2,412,621

April.::::::. 1,011,529

May::::...::.. 985,346

June::::::.. 1,489,000

July...::::::. 1,654,631

August:::::. 1,540,692

September.:::. 1,449,744

October::..::. 1,276,010

November:.::. 1,101,417

December:..::. 2,492,131

Total 2007..::. 19,658,161

It's hard to tell how much summer sales tax comes from TC when there are other tourists in town. TC is not here in September so I would expect June, July and August to be at least as much as September if there were no TC. If we use September (1,449,744) as the minimum, the difference only comes out to a sales tax increase of $335,091 for June, July and August combined.

June:::..................................... 1,489,000 - 1,449,744 = 39,256

July:.::...................................... 1,654,631 - 1,449,744 = 204,887

August :....................................... 1,540,692 - 1,449,744 = 90,948

Total additional Sales Tax June, July, August ::::::. 335,091 over Sept levels.

Total city sales tax revenue for 2007::::::::.:. 19,658,161

Maximum possible annual TC Sales Tax contribution::::. 1.7%

September is not a very high summer tourist month, and not all summer tourists are TC. This could be dialed in a lot better but it looks to me like TC doesn't bring in even 1% of the total sales tax, if that. If we could get back all of the summer tourism that is lost because of the TC crowds, we could get rid of TC and never notice, other than having the town back.

Let's have two priorities - making money and enjoying Steamboat. The real bread and butter comes from the skiers. They love us and we love them. Let's concentrate on making money when there is money to be made (in ski season) instead of ruining the summer with crowds that deteriorate the quality of Steamboat summers.

Once upon a time we needed Triple Crown. I remember those days. Seems like we are far beyond that now. Time to dump them.

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Token 6 years, 1 month ago

I'm a'working hard on that right now, kiel!

btw, would voting not be regarding using tax payer dollars to build a new facility? as opposed to who to kick out? does anyone know if this really would go to a referendum, or are we just pontificating here....?

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STEMBOATwannabe 6 years, 1 month ago

What age group does TC actually attract?

Families?

Old guys?

How many teams are actually in their tournaments? How many total hotel rooms do they reserve?

I would like to know some facts about TC before they are run out of the area.

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addlip2U 6 years, 1 month ago

Books, Thank you VERY MUCH for providing the facts.

Anyone who thinks Triple Crown is worth the misery, must be smoking something.

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STEMBOATwannabe 6 years, 1 month ago

"The Triple Crown World Series, scheduled for July 21 to Aug. 9, typically brings about 125 baseball and softball teams to the Yampa Valley every week, Steamboat Springs Chamber Resort Association Executive Vice President Sandy Evans Hall said. Between players, coaches and families, each team brings about 40 people to town, she said."

Sorry, I think I found ( above ) some of the answers to my questions.

Would it be safe to assume each team uses about 10-15 rooms? What with players, coaches and families? So this is aout 1000 rooms for a three week period??? Does every one in SS want to sneeze at the amount of revenue TC brings?

I'm not smoking anything... just trying to make some sense out of it.

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addlip2U 6 years, 1 month ago

Speaking only from experience: I saw 16 ( adults AND children) of them staying for a week in a two bedroom condominium.

How would you like to be the owner of that condo? And the property management closes its eye on the whole situation.

How much of a revenue do you think that brought in?

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Token 6 years, 1 month ago

wannabe, trust me.. I WISH I wasn't having the experience I am with TC. It was a shock to me when I moved here a few years back. Stay here for 2 weeks in the end of July and I believe you will probably understand why this group elicits so much impassioned debate. Again, its about the magnitude of the collective behaviour.

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elk2 6 years, 1 month ago

Matt S. I mean no disrespect but if I remember correctly from what you've posted previously, weren't you just a young child in the 80's? I don't think you paid rent back then?

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colowoodsman 6 years, 1 month ago

Matt, This is not the '80's and the tourism disease is spreading beyond SS and infecting other parts of the county. Guides and outfitters are everywhere there used to be semi-secluded hunting and fishing. Snowmobile and ATV tours are interefering with recreational forest users. I can hardly go out shopping, hiking or cross country skiing without some kind of interference from tourists. And now the tourism people are telling us they need more 'cheap labor' and more 'airline seats' and more 'ball parks' to keep the tourists coming!l Where do we draw the line? Should we wait untill the whole area is crawling with wall to wall tourists? Should we wait until traffic is bumper to bumper to Craig and Toponas? Why should we allow one industry to dominate and destroy OUR valley and way of life???

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elk2 6 years, 1 month ago

I think I would spend alot more money in town if I could find a parking space and didn't have to sidestep the rude crowds TC brings. I go to the PO, City Market, and Safeway, PERIOD. I do not shop in town because it's too hard. I think alot of locals would come out to enjoy our town if TC left. I spend alot more $$ in Craig,Colo. than my own hometown. I'm sure I'm not the only one to do so.

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elk2 6 years, 1 month ago

Instead of complaining on this blog let's make some noise in the real world. Where should we start? MMM, how about a few phone calls to our elected officials. They need to serve us or they need to go. Does anyone remember the Billy Mack recall. We need to do more than Blog!!

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steamboatsprings 6 years, 1 month ago

Triple Crown or not the access to the Emerald fields is a big problem and we shouldn't be putting that traffic down through Pamela Lane. The City needs to own up to the problem and provide a safer access point through the street just south of the Hampton Inn. People already park there and walk through the ditch and over the tracks. Why don't they work with those property owners to provide a safe access and close the access through Pamela Lane?

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Books 6 years, 1 month ago

Steamboatsprings - "The City needs to own up to the problem and provide a safer access point through the street just south of the Hampton Inn ,,,, Why don't they work with those property owners to provide a safe access and close the access through Pamela Lane? "

Don't worry, they will. The city is just waiting for a developer to come in with a project on that parcel, then they will extort an access easement out of the developer, and make the developer build the road, all for free. That's the way they do this sort of thing. Just be patient.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

Elk2- I was on my own since the summer of 1985, after a year of college. I was 18 and came back to Steamboat and worked as much as possible, but summer tourism hadn't really started back then. I joined the Army in 1987 just to have a year-round job. Now, still without a college education, I have managed to find work year-round since I got out of the Army in 1991, and have only collected unemployment since then for about a total of 2 weeks back in 1993, if I remember correct. I haven't had to collect unemployment since. Not bad for only a high school education. This is how someone like me was able to live in his hometown for going on 30yrs this October. Wouldn't change it for the world! Had I not done things this way, I would never have met my wonderful wife of 10yrs this summer!

Colowoodsman- Snow machines and ATV's are just another type of outdoor recreation. It just means it doesn't fit in with your (or even mine, for the most part) type of outdoor rec. The more you seclude Steamboat, the more expensive it will become, even to locals.

A restaurant will have to charge $50 a plate since most locals don't eat out more than (being generous) 4 a month. The Health & Rec will charge more for memberships since they won't have the tourist trade to offset the costs. Shopping will cost more since a majority of shops (not including City Market, Safeway and WalMart) will charge more or just plain go out of business, meaning empty storefronts. It's a worse case scenario, but since most shops here don't cater to local needs, they rely on tourist trade. Are locals going to be able to support 10-15 jewelry shops or Steamboat-logo knick-knack stores?

Then there's that whole "Steamboat's Only Source of Income is Sales Tax" thing. No tourists? Less sales tax revenue, meaing less money for...everything. This will become Aspen or Vail instead of just being on the way to becoming them. So how will essentials get paid for? Steamboat might have to institute a property tax once again. Would you prefer to pay more in property taxes?

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addlip2U 6 years, 1 month ago

The health and Rec aka Old Town Hot Springs justified building the ugly monster by claiming/whining that they need to satisfy the tourists.

Us local were happy with what we had if they only cleaned the place up and kept it clean.

A member offered to fund the purchase and installation of individual mini TV's on the exercise equipment, but the "management" refused. Said it want to keep it as is.

How much did they spend on the name change and its advertisement in lieu of putting the resources into the place?
Of course with all that remodel we are hit with increased fees.

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letomayo 6 years, 1 month ago

If pamela Lane people want peace and quiet in there neighborhood why do they live by a railroad track. Can't a bridge go across the river to the back of the fields from the river road then you don't have to worry about the train tracks that the residents live by.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

Colowoodsman- You can disagree all you like, but tell us all what industry is going to keep Steamboat afloat if not tourism? Give a viable alternative.

You're right, though: why do we need 15 of one type of store? Because that's what's making them money.

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SilverSpoon 6 years, 1 month ago

One industry which cannot sustain this town forever is construction. Just this morning, I saw a truck with 8 men freezing in the bed of the truck going to work, apparently not enough room in the cab. Is it carpooling at its best? I am just guessing that they were not a part of the "local" labor force.

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longtimelocal 6 years, 1 month ago

Knowitall,

You certainly don't know much! I did NOT choose to live in a high traffic area. As a kid growing up in Brooklyn (river road) the street wasn't even paved, traffic was light, and it was a great quiet place to live. I DID NOT CHOOSE this, and you can get over it. They brought this to us, and they can make it go away. SO BE THAT. You might want to engage your brain before running your mouth.

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longtimelocal 6 years, 1 month ago

knowitall

Careful, your intelligence is showing through again! I am simply stating that TC brings more problems than the revenue it gains. This includes ALL of us, not just high traffic areas. EVERYONE including knowitalls use Lincoln Avenue. What a nightmare. This town (what is left of it) needs to seriously reconsider its values and what is important.

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424now 6 years, 1 month ago

Kiel has a valid point.

As shown by Books unofficial but I presume reasonably close numbers.

We do not have to surrender the boat.

We do not have to run TC off.

We do have to reign TC in.

We are a city. By definition a permenant gathering of people with the express intent of making life a little better throuugh our collective efforts. Through our efforts we have brought some things home to roost that have become troublesome.

While still providing a source of summer revenue, how do we stop practices that we find disagreeable to our collective common sense?

Reign them in.

How?

Take it to City Hall. Discuss these issues with friends and family. Think it through. When your ready, take it to the hall. Get off you keister and haul it down to City Hall. Take the neighbors. Bring the bridge club. Groups always look more impressive. Sit through the meeting. Drink Coffee, stay up late, whatever you have to do to get them to listen. Tell them things like...

Step up police patrols in the areas effected. (Understanding the added costs involved and believing it to be worth the investment blah blah blah...)

Change the access into Emerald field. (Finding it far to invasive into our reasonably quite residential neighborhood we ask blah blah blah...)

When is the lot south of Emerald field going to be developed? (Who has expressed interest in developing the lot south of blah blah blah...)

I don't know. Tell them what you want but understand this, they are not going act based on the comments we make here. We can hash out our ideas here. We can voice our opinions. Heck! I'll bet some of the council and other movers and shakers read these threads. They may listen but they won't put a lot of value on this quiet little blogosphere.

It doesn't resonate in council chambers.

Rock the Boat.

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colowoodsman 6 years, 1 month ago

Matt -no one is talking about putting an end to tourism. But now that you mention it I should probably open a few t-shirt shops myself. There is always room for one more in 'the Boat' right? You are not afraid it is going to sink are you?

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

Actually, being a Realtor is the T-shirt store of the new millenium. In the 90's is was being a massage therapist. I don't think anyone can truly compete with The Shirt Stop, though. They've always been the best and outlasted the rest.

Thing is, if you eliminate TC completely, then yes: you have basically eliminated tourism for the summer. You'll get one big (we'll see if it goes better this year) weekend with Rainbow Weekend. Labor Day still pretty much hasn't recovered from eliminating the Vintage Auto Races, so you'll still have Labor Day for the town. I've found spending Labor Day in South Routt much more satisfying, personally. Maybe 1 other weekend with the Mustang Round-Up. It's hard to make 1 weekend a month bring in the big bucks to keep businesses afloat...unless they raise prices to make up for it.

Personally, I think 424now's ideas. I'd also love to see Steamboat host the Colorado Community Theater Coalitiion Festival as often as possible, but we need a new performing arts location that could house it after the Mountain Theater closes. This festival rotates, but with a state of the art location, we might be able to host it often.

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Books 6 years, 1 month ago

Matt- "if you eliminate TC completely, then yes: you have basically eliminated tourism for the summer."

If that were true then September sales tax would fall back down to the May level. TC is not here in September. I would argue that the September sales tax numbers are about the same as the sales tax collected from the non-TC tourists that are here during June, July & August. And if that is true, then TC can only claim the difference between whatever September brings in and the actual during June, July & August. For 2007 that number comes out to $335,091. I also would remind you that the total Sales Tax revenue for all of 2007 is $19,658,161.

That means at the most, TC brings in 1.7% of the total sales tax revenue.

Why is Steamboat doing these crazy backflips to bring in 1.7% more business?

I'd rather see events that not only draw the participants, but also spectators. Like the rodeo. Or the balloons. Or more theater or music. Or something that the locals might enjoy also. How many non-TC tourists or locals are going go watch a TC game?

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another_local 6 years, 1 month ago

The bottom line with the cutting horse people was that they outgrew our facilities and went elsewhere. Is there a lesson here?

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fishy 6 years, 1 month ago

thank you Books. why backflips indeed. I believe our town actually pays TC ($75,000?, $100,000?) to come here. Matt - remember "if you build it, they will come" ?
how about 'if you get rid of TC, they will come.' It is nuts to say eliminating TC will eliminate tourism for the summer. No one scouting the boat while TC is here would be likely to plan their future event here.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

http://www.steamboatsprings.net/fileadmin/all_documents/finance_doc/prev_salestax_reports/2006_salestax_reports/September_06_sales_tax.pdf

http://www.steamboatsprings.net/fileadmin/all_documents/finance_doc/prev_salestax_reports/2006_salestax_reports/September_06_sales_tax.pdf

If you look at the tax breakdown in it's different areas, the Lodging, Liquor and Restaurants spike Jun-Aug and drop off in September. Misc includes the stores I mentioned such as supermarkets, WalMart, etc.

Plus, since I don't watch TC, can someone answer if Steamboat (adults or kids) ever have teams playing also?

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ijustlookhi 6 years, 1 month ago

Triple Crown sucks! We can do better if the Chamber would actually do something to help us be a soulful mountain town instead of Little Texas in Colorado...

The 'boat will not go under if we play hardball with the clowners...I mean c'mon...

How about Concerts (good ones), Races, events etc....Triple Clown is not the best we can do....please. It is just an easy out for the Chamber and we citizens have to suffer for the financial gain of very few.

What happened to big bike races and concerts on the mountain????

You mean to tell me in this town the best we can do is Triple Clown?????

What a joke....let's get some new blood in marketing and events planning then!!!!!

The line they are selling us..."Triple Crown is so important!" is BS!

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OnTheBusGus 6 years, 1 month ago

Anyone remember the cutting horse people? They were polite, embodied the western heritage thing, and they had money. Real money! A cutting horse is an investment and they aren't cheap. I remember one group that rented the largest house the management company I worked for had for 2 months. Then they rented two other large places for 6 weeks to house their relatives and friends. They were enjoying eating at Antares, La Montana and other high end restaurants and they weren't complaining about the prices. Can anyone remember why this great group got run off? That seems like that was a mistake.

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fishy 6 years, 1 month ago

onthebusgus - I agree! I loved the cutting horse events. I don't know why they stopped coming but they would be a great one to have back. That's exactly the kind of group we should try to attract, the opposite of TC.

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Brian Smith 6 years, 1 month ago

Books,

Yes, our kids do participate in 3C tournaments. Actually last year, our local 9 year olds one their age division.

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another_local 6 years, 1 month ago

Books nunbers are missing two big pieces:

Lodging tax County Tax

The tax impact really is about 500K and that is only the first time around. There is also the impact of the 2 million in wages paid as a result of TC spending. Most of those paychecks end up in local businesses as well.

Like them or not, the facts are that TC provides about 300-400 local jobs for the weeks they are here.

Yes, the cutting horse people were great. All 200 of them.

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elkeye 6 years, 1 month ago

The cutting horse people did not outgrow our facilities, they were told that they were not wanted by "someone" at city hall.

The rodeo was more of a priority and rather than the rodeo taking a weekend off, the cutting horse people were told to hit the road.

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Brian Smith 6 years, 1 month ago

...I mean they WON their age division, not one.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

So mTnsmith- Since you say you have kids playing in TC, would it cost you more money for your kids to enjoy playing if TC went away or would it be a welcome change for you if TC went away? I assume they still have to travel for some tournament games? What about you as a worker- do you have a job that caters to TC during the summer months?

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Brian Smith 6 years, 1 month ago

Matthew,

I don't have kids, but I do help coach LL in the summer. We for example went to the state LL tournament last year, and yes it cost money to go. Unfortunately our kids were so overwhelmed by the competition, we did not fare so well (teams in the front range get about 40 or so more games in a year than our kids). By the time we went to the state tournament, we had only played maybe 8 games. Our age bracket was 11-12 year olds, that did NOT participate in 3C here in Steamboat. I do believe if our kids participated in 3C prior to going to state, it would have helped them at the state LL level. The 9 year olds however, competed in 3C, and did very well at state, I don't recall how they finished, but they did well, and I believe the word was out at the state LL level, that Steamboat put together a pretty good team. Can't say if the 3C experience helped them or not, but it sure didn't hurt them. As a worker, I do not rely on tourism at all, I live here, and work remotely from an office back East. In my opinion, it is actually good for our local kids to see and maybe even participate in 3C, it would be a good experience for them.

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fishy 6 years, 1 month ago

elkeye - very interesting. I wonder who that "someone" at city hall was?

another local - are you sure you know what you're talking about? according to the chart Matt referenced, it looks like the lodging tax is included. can anyone verify that? it's be nice to have the real numbers when discussing this.

and "2 million in wages paid as a result of TC spending" ?? are you saying none of those people would have their jobs if TC wasn't here? If the cutting horse group was 200 people and I don't know if that's right, I bet those 200 spent more than 2000 TCers.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

Thanks, mTnsmith. Just looking to put that info out there so people can see who is affected, for whatever reasons, by TC. It's all about asking the correct questions!

Fishy, I believe that some people are just looking at the overall numbers instead of the breakdown of revenue per business type. That's one of those "statistics can be manipulated" type of things, depending on how much you break it down.

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Brian Smith 6 years, 1 month ago

By the way, someone asked earlier if any locals watch TC, and that answer is yes. I watch the games whenever I can, the competition in the 3C is fun to watch if you are a baseball fan in general. This last summer I had family in town during 3C, that was not participating, and we choose to go watch games then as well. I also ride my bike around the fields then, and have never had anyone throw rocks at me, or treat me with any disrespect ;)

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Books 6 years, 1 month ago

another- From the other TC article:

"$500,000 in sales tax revenue for the city of Steamboat Springs alone, Evans Hall said"

She was talking city sales tax alone. Not county or lodging.

I can only come up with at most $355K.

I for one would like to see a breakdown with some better numbers, it appears that the proponents are just taking a wild guess.

It seems like there is a lot of money coming in the door because TC brings in wall-to-wall people during what would normally be the busiest time of the summer anyway. I'm just saying that they aren't spending as much money as the proponents are claiming and their impact is huge.

Also look at the July 2007 pie chart on the city web site:

http://www.steamboatsprings.net/index.php?id=341

I am using the info that I have available. Lodging tax is included in the city sales tax pie chart. Even if it is not, lodging tax revenue in the summer is nowhere near the winter, especially when the TC people are jamming 20 people into a unit and a lot of them are staying in the campgrounds. Have you ever tried to find a campsite during their world series?

Also the notion that 400 people would loose their jobs if TC left is little more than scare mongering. TC crowds drive away a lot of people who would return if TC left.

mTnsmith - Its good to hear that someone watched the TC games, but I haven't heard any locals demanding that grandstands be built to accommodate all of the spectators. Do we have to have 125 teams show up so our kids can experience a tournament and a handful of locals can watch a game or two?

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Brian Smith 6 years, 1 month ago

Books, I was just pointing out that there are Locals that watch the 3C games. Didn't say everyone in Steamboat enjoys them.

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OnTheBusGus 6 years, 1 month ago

Books, don't forget that the Chamber pays TC to bring people here. Last I looked it was $75,000 but not sure if that is yearly or what. I think that as popular as Steamboat is these days, we might just be getting more tourism in general so why do we need TC anymore?

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 1 month ago

Also, a lot of TC families book on their own and don't stay with the whole team. They are "just another family" enjoying Steamboat, so any things absolutely attributed to TC tax numbers might not end up being complete.

As for the lodging numbers comparing summer to winter, winter prices are almost double, sometimes triple the summer rates depening on holiday/regular/value time periods. (this is measuring tax revenue, not nightly stays) Most TC visitors stay an average of 3nts until the Series events late July to early August. That gives Steamboat 4nts a week where TC isn't here the majority of the summer. During the Series time period, they average 5-7nts, for about a 2week time period.

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elkeye 6 years, 1 month ago

The issue of Triple Crown and Emerald Park is nothing new.

If Dave King wants the City to even consider Triple Crown using the Emerald Park fields, he should get out his checkbook and provide a secondary access or withdraw his request to use the Emerald Park fields.

Wednesday, May 15, 2002

Steamboat Springs - The baseball fields at Emerald Park are proving to be a precious bargaining chip between Triple Crown and Steamboat's negotiating committee.

Both Councilman Paul Strong and Triple Crown founder Dave King said use of the park and its baseball fields are one of the final and the largest issue yet to be resolved before a five-year renewal contract is signed.

At the heart of the issue is a secondary access into Emerald Park.

"As long as there is an access issue with Pamela Lane, we're not willing to put Triple Crown there. I don't want to even look at the issue until that one gets resolved," Strong said.

King agreed and said an access to alleviate the pressure of traffic driving on Pamela Lane has to be solved.

...

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another_local 6 years, 1 month ago

My statement about wages and jobs is based on the fact that TC spends about 10 million in the area. Sales tax is the smaller impact: "only" a half million. Even if the 355K number were correct it would indicate approximately 8 million in spending so the disagreement here is 20%.

Businesses spend a lot of the money they bring in on wages. In restaurants they generally spend about 30-35% NOT including what the owner takes which is also a wage. Most retail stores are spending less. Something in the area of 10-15% is pretty typical. If you blend the wages of retail, restaurant, lodging etc 20% is a good round number for working with. Businesses will find a way to save the money if the business is not there. Hence my statement about jobs. If you take 10 million out of the economy employers will find a way to save that 2 million in wages.

Other second level expenses such as many supplies and services will also be reduced but those are much smaller impacts.

Even if the spending is "only" 8 million and lost wages are "only" 1.6 million the impact is MUCH larger than just the sales tax contribution. One less waitress on the floor, one less cook in the kitchen, a couple fewer stockers and cashiers at Safeway, one less person driving tube shuttles, at many local businesses, yes it will cost jobs.

So no, this is not scare mongering it is simple fact.

Elkeye, the cutting horse thing was complex. Yes there were scheduling issues with the rodeo, but if you do a little research you will learn that the underlying issue was the size of the facilties and we were going to lose the event for that reason when the schduling issue came up. Hey, I wish we had a series of a dozen cutting horse events in place of the base ball tournements. Do you have some connections in that world? Let's make it happen. I will support it all the way.

The bottom line is that the business is important to local people; both businesses and employees. The request for the emerald fields is for 14 days at a time when no organized local use takes place and, I think, is for a period of two years to be follewed by a switch to new fields at a regional sports complex. The plan includes mandatory shuttles to the fields the TC is paying for so the traffic would not be what some people are implying.

Do you know people in Hayden and Craig? Try asking them about TC. Those communities WANT the business. Putting the fileds in Hayden as planned would be a big help to them.

Do I love TC? No, I don't. I would very happy to trade them for another business producing event or series, but let's not walk away from it and have the heart of the summer experience the same decline Labor Day did when we lost the auto races. I used to come into town on my days off in the summer back in the late 70s. It was mighty quiet.

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STEMBOATwannabe 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey Local, this is the first time I heard about a shuttle to Emerald park!! Is this true? Are the SS LL games over at that point in the summer? So the controversy is about? __???? what? The fields? The behavior in bars/resaurants??? The over crwoding in condo/hotel units?? The food they bring in from the front range? and don't buy locally??? What is the real problem??

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another_local 6 years, 1 month ago

Yes, a shuttle is part of the proposal combined with off site parking. Local league activity of all types take place AFTER 2PM when the TC folks will be out of there so there is not a conflict in that respect. The local LL came out in FAVOR of the proposal and will benefit from a donation by TC.

I think this is about a knee jerk anti-tourist recation and TC is most convenient target. Try going to any restaurant during March and you wil find some jerks. There are always going to be some.

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