Guest commentary: Hush, Rush

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— Last Sunday, I suggested idolatry toward the Clintons should be cast aside by those who tilt left. Today, I proffer conservatives do the same with their iconic couple - Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. Why? Because rhetoric aimed solely at divisiveness is no more appealing dressed in red than blue.

Last Thursday, Mitt Romney pulled out of the race after realizing a candidate who changes positions based on prevailing political winds can't buy the presidency - no matter how many hedge fund dollars inhabit his piggy bank.

Meanwhile, the affable Mike Huckabee is hanging on. But Huck is doing so with an eye toward staking a claim at Number One Observatory Circle with a V.P. nod.

That leaves John McCain with a path to the White House. A path blocked by Barack or Billary flanked on the right by political suicide bombers consisting of Rush, Coulter and dittoheads inhabiting the world of talk radio and Townhall.com.

Don't get me wrong. I've worked in talk radio as a commentator and show host. My political compass points right. My comments once so enraged the mayor of Baltimore he rushed to the studio, barged in while I was on-air and proposed a fight. Had pistols been at hand it might have been Burr/Hamilton II.

Hard punches because of policy differences should be the norm. But there is a limit to what is acceptable in attacking a politician personally. Limbaugh and Coulter have exceeded the limit.

Coulter, whose career consists of distorting the truth, has taken to calling McCain a liar for taking positions true conservatives disagree about. In pure gutter journalism - a place where she thrives - Coulter continually makes snide remarks belittling McCain's five years as a prisoner of war.

Here's Coulter two weeks ago: "These days, McCain gives swashbuckling speeches about the terrorists who 'will follow us home.' But he still opposes dripping water down their noses. He was a POW, you know."

Just this week Coulter wrote, "(McCain) hysterically opposes waterboarding terrorists and wants to shut down Guantanamo."

Putting aside the fact that Coulter is the one who routinely exudes hysteria, for her to denigrate McCain's POW status - a man who was tortured to the point he can't raise his arms high enough to comb his hair - is vile. It would be bad enough for a fellow vet to make such remarks. But for Coulter, who has sacrificed nothing for her country, to ridicule McCain's perspective on the value and efficacy of torture would be laughable if it weren't so disgusting.

Limbaugh is no better. Recently, he uses each show to berate McCain with personal attacks. As with Coulter, Limbaugh's attacks often are designed to personally belittle McCain's policies concerning how the U.S. treats those captured on and off the battlefield. Policies McCain truly believes will better protect our servicemen and women.

This is the same Rush Limbaugh who, after dropping out of college and losing his draft deferment, claimed he suffered from a cyst near his buttocks in order to sit out the Vietnam War while 58,000 of his contemporaries gave their lives. Compare Rush's demonstration of character to McCain, who volunteered to serve and refused his captors' offer of release until his fellow POWs were freed.

Given that history, Rush should show humility and deference when it comes to McCain's view on what constitutes torture and appropriate treatment of the enemy.

But humility is not in the repertoire of Rush, or Coulter. They seek to destroy McCain in a misguided belief the carnage will benefit the Republican Party come 2012.

But in their selfishness, are Rush and Coulter willing to aid al-Qaida? Evidently, that is what Romney fears.

In withdrawing from the race this week Romney stated: "If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of (McCain's) national campaign and make it more likely that Sen. Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror."

Perhaps Rush and Coulter should listen more and talk less.

Rob Douglas spent 10 years as a political commentator and radio talk show host for ABC Radio and Hearst-Argyle Television, following an earlier career as a Washington, D.C., private detective. He currently works as a security consultant.

Comments

another_local 6 years, 6 months ago

Well said Rob. Perhaps the paper will read this and stop supporting Coulter's spew with paper and ink.

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SkyKing 6 years, 6 months ago

I agree with these comments.

I have written to Rush along the same lines. He has had his say. It did not sell. He needs to get on board and be a spear carrier rather than a spear thrower. As for Ann...she is just Ann and even she shows some sense of reality saying that if Romney goes on the ticket she will support McCain.

I don't think that will happen, but McCain can win without Coulter being in his camp. Limbaugh is a different breed of cat and a bigger problem and the sooner he decides this is not about him, but about the country, the better he will serve it.

Well said, Rob!

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erasmocisneros 6 years, 6 months ago

Very well said Rob. I am a moderate Democrat that if I'm going to listen to someone, you've got to show me the beef. John McCain right now is the only one standing that can protect this country. He more than proved his patriotism and love for this country.He is indepted to no one. He is an American first and Republican second and that is what every American should be. These extreme right zealots are the ones that have actualy tried to hijack the Republican Party. My question to Limbaugh, Coulter and their likes is this, "what have you done for this country besides talk, talk, talk? You have a right to talk, talk , talk. But when the security of this country is threatened by people who never did anything for this country except talk, talk, talk, then I'm going to talk, talk, talk also

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

I can't speak for Limbaugh & Coulter. Here are some of my problems with McCain:

  1. Tax cuts. A core conservative principle where McCain can be relied upon to be unreliable. He has dependably opposed the Bush tax cuts more than once. Although now that he feels it necessary to suck up to the base, he says he wants to make permanent that which he has passionately argued against and voted to prevent. Flip flop, anyone?

  2. Global warming. Virtually indistinguishable from Al Gore.

  3. McCain-Feingold. An absolutely breathtaking suppression of free speech.

  4. Immigration/McCain-Kennedy. He's always advocated amnesty. Has recently put his moistened finger into the wind, and is now paying lip service to border security. Funny how it never occurred to him before an election year.

  5. "Gang of 14." Bent over backwards to prevent the Senate from confirming conservative judicial nominees. We can expect nothing but David Souters & Anthony Kennedys (at best!) to be shoveled into the judiciary.

erasmocisneros:

Regarding McCain being "indepted [sic]" - google Keating Five.

I don't see any significant domestic policy differences between McCain & Billary or Obama. That said, I'll pull the lever for him in November. I'll have to hold my nose, though, just as I did in 2000.

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smoke 6 years, 6 months ago

jazz, yea you got roberts and alito. pretty libral alrite lol!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

smoke:

Try to wrap your pea brain around the notion that there is more to the Federal Judiciary than the Supreme Court to the tune of nearly 900 federal judgeships nationwide.

Why don't you log off and get back to work on your G.E.D?

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another_local 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz,

Thanks for the summary. I will not have to hold my nose to vote for McCain.

Tax cuts ONLY make sense if there is also going to be some responsibility on spending to go with them.... a discussion where the far right has been notably absent.

Glabal warming: Not a liberal/conservative issue. Gore is right so is McCain. Take your head out of the sand.

You have demonstrated you don't understand McCain Feingold. 'nuf said.

Amnesty: It is about solutions that are achievable. Absolute solutions that can can never be implimented are a waste of time and effort to discuss. McCain is right.

Conservatism used to be about minding your own business and minimizing government. Don't confuse true conservatism with far-right social agenda that has hijacked the word in the last 20 years.

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colowoodsman 6 years, 6 months ago

local, have you considered the effect giving amnesty to illegals would have on legal immigrants and honest taxpayers that have to compete for jobs? Do you belive giving them amnesty will turn them into honest, law-abiding taxpayers? McCain is leaning left to get into the White House. After that he will probably do a 180 like most politicians!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

another_local:

Which of McCain's mutually exclusive positions on the Bush tax cuts "make sense"? And what leads you to believe that McCain is going to deploy greater spending "responsibility" than his fellow RINOs or the Dems?

You've obviously never read McCain-Feingold ( http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ155.107 ), nor pulled your head out of the sand long enough to see that political campaign spending has skyrocketed since; never mind taken a look at who is and isn't doing the spending.

The McCain-Feingold mandated media blackout 60 days prior to an election is the greatest incumbent protection scam ever devised. Prior to McCain Feingold, the Senate incumbent return rate was 90%; and 98% in the House. Care to guess what those numbers are now?

Congressional officeholders anticipate election year Labor Days like kids look forward to Santa Clause. That's when incumbents can kick back free from all those pesky tv & radio spots. Short of calling off the elections altogether, it's the best protection an incumbent could ask for. Between Sept & Nov, the vast majority of what you hear is delivered to you by the corporate media and politicians in power who (unlike you and me) have unlimited access to unregulated resources.

There are murmurs among some conservatives that McCain vs. any Dem is a wash - that either one will be ruinous, so it's better to vote for Democratic and leave the Dems holding the bag on disaster. If not for the war, it's a ploy I might have considered.

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erasmocisneros 6 years, 6 months ago

Look folks, I don't expect nor demand to get everything I want from a candidate of my choosing. To do so would be foolish on my part. But of all the candidates that are left standing, John McCain is the one that comes closest to my values. Am I going to try and destroy him for not thinking 100% like I do? Absolutely not! That would be helping the others win. How much of a percentage am I willing to settle on? I'm for the security of this country so I'll go to whom ever will deliver the most security and John McCain is the one by far. Don't destroy this good patriot just 'cause you don't agree 100% with what he says. I am so turned off by what Limbaugh is doing. I think his ego is more important to him than the safety of this country. We are in a religious war that is going to be difficult to win. Let's unite and elect this man. Erasmo

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

erasmocisheros:

If I voice disagreement with a candidate's policy position, I'm trying to "destroy him"? I should shut up and pretend to support policies I loathe? The 1st Amendment isn't your favorite, is it?

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another_local 6 years, 6 months ago

Me "howl about cutbacks in entitlements"? You have no basis for that statement. Again, you confuse the middle with the left. You are so far to the right that you can't see the difference. Here's a hint, this failure of perception and your misjudgement about how many share your views is costing you your credibility. When solid conservatives like Rob (I know him) call for moderation in expression (yes, I lump you with Coulter) should have a look in the mirror.

You guys (sbore and jazz) are a vocal minority that, in the end, will cost your party its influence in much the same way that the far left nut-jobs weaken the dems.

Woodsman, the bottom line is yes, I do believe that if we recognize that millions of these workers are here to stay we have a chance of collecting taxes from them. Especially if we stop looking the other way on enforcement the way our current leadership has.

Those of us in the middle prefer policy goals that can actually be accomplished. Do you want some of the pie or none at all?

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

Want me to post a copy of YOUR SS check? Cell phone cameras are a wonderful thing!

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

McCain will get my vote and I won't have to hold my nose to pull the lever. While I don't agree with his policy on immigration I do agree on his commitment to the safety and security of our nation. What many don't know (or have forgotten) is that as a POW McCain was scheduled for early release by the North Vietnamese. Instead he chose to stay with his men and endure the unimaginable torture that would follow as a result of his decision. This alone shows me that he is a man of honor, dedication, and commitment. He has demonstrated his honor. He has shown his dedication and by crossing party lines when necessary has shown his commitment to fight for what he believes is right for this country. He is not perfect, he doesn't claim to have all the answers and if you listen to what he says you will hear him say exactly that. There is not nor will there ever be a perfect candidate to elect as president but in this time of world conflict I believe that there can be no better choice among the candidates then Sen. McCain. Our nations security should be the #1 concern for all Americans and for me John McCain is our best bet. Unlike Vietnam, we cannot just go home and hope that the fight will not follow us, It's already here. Unlike the Vietnamese our present enemy is commited to our erradication as a people and a society, not just an enemy. These extremists will not rest until they have wiped us from the face of this earth and my vote will go to the one person that I believe will do whatever it takes to keep that from happening. The other candidates would "cut and run" and allow these religious extremists to bring the fight to us on our own soil. McCain will stand and fight, and I for one would rather go down swinging! God Bless Our Troops!

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dogd 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz and Bore are neo-cons. Lockstep neo-cons are bad for:

  1. the United States of America

  2. The Republican party

  3. Themselves

We have seen what happens when the neo-con agenda is given large influence. Disaster and embarrasment. Enough of the neo-con crap. McCain is a true American. I think that ego-mania is at the root of any neo-con perspective at THIS point in time...pure self-centered egotism.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

dogd:

No issue discussion. Just ad-hominem name calling & insults. Childish, boring, and unsurprising. You're a marginally more polished incarnation of smoke.

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dogd 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz; I like some of the things you have to say.

But when it comes to politics you ARE a pure predictable neocon template-no variations. I'm just telling it like it is.

John McCain for President. Let the neo-cons whine. Jazz.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Thanks for making my point. As for predictability - log on to an online dictionary and look it up. Then go find a mirror.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

JLM- Any evidence that Osama is even still in Afghanistan or Pakistan?

And Jazz now sounds like the Bore, while getting "dogd!" LOL!

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nikobesti 6 years, 6 months ago

Ah, I see how it is. Conservatives love Coulter and Limbaugh until they start to bite the wrong people. No longer fun to live with a rabid pit bull, hu?

dogd: Let's let the neo-cons REALLY whine. Obama '08.

sbvor: Let's check back with you on that global warming thing in about 10 years. You very well could be right. But I doubt it. Additionally, Al Qaeda will be happy as pigs in **** when we elect a president who won't "surrender" in Iraq. Bush and Cheney have done EXACTLY what Osama bin Laden wanted them to. They played right into his hand and had to be idiots not to know that (In fact, I would contend that they knew this all along. But they care more about a US presence in the Middle East and securing our economic interests to care about any repercussions). Osama bin Laden loves the US in the Middle East inciting hatred and violence. Al Qaeda's ultimate dream is a holy war, and Bush has brought just that to the Middle East.

Al Qaeda is SCARED the US will pull out of Iraq. They wouldn't be able to talk about US occupation and US detention camps. They wouldn't be able to talk about "American infidels" degrading their holy land. They would lose vast amounts of support for their cause and they would lose many potential terrorists that are no longer mad enough at the US to blow themselves up.

Of course there's no chance I'll change sbvor's mind on this, but maybe someone else will see the stupidity of the "Osama bin Laden wants us to surrender" BS.

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JLM 6 years, 6 months ago

Osama Bin Laden has been enjoying his vacation in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan because he can't go anywhere else because he is going to get killed otherwise.

I hope we keep playing into his hand.

Only in the US can we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with a look of triumph.

Sheesh!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

kielbasa:

I'm glad you appreciate dogd's contribution here. I'm curious, though - does he fall within your "too scared to put their name to their words so as to avoid being held accountable for the words, then I believe they should be frowned upon" rubric? If not, why not?

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justathought 6 years, 6 months ago

colobob, well said. McCain's immigration policy may get better yet, he admitted to hearing the outrage of the people and realizes we need to secure our borders and hold on to our sovereignty, all he needs to do now is deny amnesty. As far as the military, you will never convince the cut and run backers that winning this war is in our best interest, by the time they realize this the war will be on our soil as you say.

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dogd 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz: When I nail specifics the result has always seemed to be that no further posts show up. But the theme of ALL neo-con positions is a strong abiding sense of being entitled to:

  1. a quick emotionally satisfying "fix" to a problem.

  2. a quick financially satisfying "fix" to a problem.

  3. No competing visions or amendments.

McCain embraces problems in a manner appropriate to the greatest nation on earth- with patient confidence, but strong resolve. The big stick is where he can get it-fast, but he doesn't wave it around like a neo-con kid. He has had his share of problems and embarrasments, and will never adopt the fake "holier than thou" attitude.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

So trot out some specifics. You and I have been most frequently at odds over the war, so let's start there.

I've stated here in the past that we're going to be in Iraq for a long time - my prediction is a dedcade; we're halfway there. McCain voted for the war, and has said he'll keep us there for "100 years" if he has to (which Obama is now trying to use against him).

If that's a "quick fix", you're going to have to expain how.

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dogd 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz: The prosecution of that war by Rummy was the first time we argued. Every point I made was challenged by you.

eg. When Abu Gharib (sp?) prison scandal broke- I said it was the kind of disaster that we cannot afford- that it could and would create huge problems. You and the bore violently disagreed and started throwing the "liberal "label crap(as always). Turns out even little w admitted that it was a huge problem in retrospect. It turned a lot of the people there from "wait and see" to actively opposing us.

The ridiculous "game plan" by Rummy for post war "stability" in Iraq, which ignored every common sense consideration regarding troop strength in favor of his proving a private theory that a relatively small underequipped force could do it on the "cheap". We are still paying the price for that blunder, and so are the people of that country.

Yeah Jazz- a decade - because of a neo-con desire for the quick emotional satisfaction of some "shock and awe". Idiot little w really thought the mission was accomplished when he strutted across that carrier deck. His neo-cons got thier "shock and awe".

We are all getting the bill and the "decade". Thanks neo-cons. A true conservative would have placed more strength to subdue the country which harbored the attack on us, Afghanistan, maybe got Osama, and held off on Iraq, at least long enough to game plan SOMETHING for post-Saddam.

I believe McCain is the adult kind of conservative. He is not a neo-con, and will provide solutions which may involve patience and actually consulting beyond a tiny inner circle of true believers.

These are a couple of hints Jazz. All I've got time for right now.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz- Yes he does, as does everyone anonymous. Is repetition the only way you "get it?" I just thought your back & forth with him made it funny and your haughtiness reminded me of Haydenchild.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

So I guess I should start using the apropos HDNbore now.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

On top of that, Jazz, dogd and I have disagreed plenty of times. Dogd also has never brought my Mom into his posts nor accused me of stealing his identity without proof.

Any other stupid questions you want answered to make you look more foolish?

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

You accused me crime, and the more you deny it, the more info I will relate to people about you. Want me to call you at home to prove it? LOL!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

kielbasa:

ANYONE who posts anonymously is to be "frowned upon." Got it. Since I've only seen you bring it up while sparring with me or AJ, I wasn't sure. Thanks for clearing that up.

To the vast majority of members here: keilbasa "frown[s] upon" you, because you're all cowards. And I'M the haughty one, LOL!

You & dogd have identical strategies when it comes to snuffing out debate: straightforward name calling. A 3-yr old might use "doody head." You're fond of coward (the anonymous are running scared, yadda yadda). dogd's a little more creative - "self centered egomania[c]", in this thread. It's too bad the old forum and its archives no longer exist. He & I really got into it early on, and he had quite an arsenal of insults and epithets; much of it focused on genitalia. And then, of course, there's your "if you're not expert in X, you have no business weighing in on X (the Margaret Hair maneuver)."

You should try harder to keep your little pissing contest with AJ between you & AJ - or else clarify your mother and identity theft have to do with me or dogd or anyone else here.

In any event, color me Happy To Be Frowned Upon! Considering the source, I'll wear it like a badge, LOL!

dogd:

Postmortems are easy to do. McCain's (accurate) criticism has been insufficient manpower after the initial assault/invasion. Funny how he didn't voice that concern until we were three years in. Neither did W or the Dems, so that's not an indictment of McCain. It's just a fact.

W & company have publicly conceded that their biggest mistake (in addition to not enough boots on the ground) was "de-Baathifying" the Iraqi military & law enforcement, since it exempted the most qualified from soldiering & policing. And since McCain had nothing to say about it until AFTER the fit hit the shan, I see no evidence that his crystal ball is more accurate than W's or anyone else's.

As a soldier, McCain is awe inspiring. A better man than me, by FAR.

As a politician, he's a politician.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

Unfortunately, nobody can see the Non-Badge of Courage you wear being anonymous.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Dan Quayle, Al Gore, and Howard Dean were also born a year later in 1948. Quess those aliens must have spread the wealth around heh?

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

If anonymity is good enough at a polling place, it's darn sure good enough here as well. When I am required to sign my name to a voting ballot then myself and others like me will sign our posts here. Anonymity is a choice as is making yourself known. BOTH are rights! It's called freedom of choice. This is still America and while there is still some freedom of choice left in this country I choose to remain anonymous on threads like this. Enough with the anonymity already. It grew old a very long long time ago and always seems to come up when there is a difference of opinion and no other rational response seems possible. It's not whether or not you're anonymous that matters, moreover it is your point of view that does. Geesh!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, colobob. You're a coward. Period.

The Frowning One has spoken.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

One might say the same thing for those that toss insults around on a thread! Look for the old fart wearing a beat up old Bucking Rainbow Outfitters hat waving a fly around on the Yampa and by all means feel free to express yourself as previously stated IN PERSON! Just so you can tell from a distance, the hat is green not yellow like the stripe that runs down your back.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

colobob:

The Frowning One is kielbasa - derived from his "too scared to put their name to their words so as to avoid being held accountable for the words, then I believe they should be frowned upon" pronouncement.

He's the one peddling the "you're all cowards" song & dance.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

I apologize if I misunderstood. You struck a nerve. In my early years I spent some 72 months humping an M-16 through mosquito infested rice paddies and jungles. I've seen things a man should never see and done things a man should never have to do in order to stay alive. Scared? Scared sh#@less! A coward? Never!Neither myself or ANY man I served with will ever stand for being called a coward. Now I only fear my maker and to him I am accountable for all I have done and for all I have had to do. Again my apologies.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Speaking as someone who never wore the uniform & put himself in harm's way, you're a better man than I. I'm the LAST man on earth you would ever have to apolgize to.

Thank you for your service.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz, I'm no better than you or anyone else. Not having served doesn't make you any less of a man than me. I wish no one had to serve! There is no glory in war, sometimes as now, it is just a necessary evil. The real hero's in war never came home. I was one of the lucky ones. No hero, just an ordinary Joe that thanks God every day of his life. God Bless and Support Our Troops!

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colowoodsman 6 years, 6 months ago

Local- We gave 3 million illegals amnesty in '86 and we now have 12-20 million illegals. If we give these illegals amnesty,how many illegals will we have 20 years from now? You do the math!

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Woodsman, I'm confident that McCains position on illegals will change in fact if he can be taken at his word, and I believe he can, he's already started to change his position. Not just because he wants to be elected but because the majority of Americans will demand it. That said, no matter what his position is on illegals his position on the security of our nation is quite clear. If for no other reason that is why he will get my vote. The protection of or country is my main priority. Cut & run tatics will be our demise. We are fighting religious extremists not patriots. Life means nothing to them. For them death in the name of Alluh is glory. Leaving without finishing the job is no longer an option.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Re: McCain - it'll be interesting to see which way he jumps after the convention. Clinton & Obama have already telegraphed the Democrat strategy: attacking McCain's backpeddling on taxes & immigration, and his self-confessed ignorance of economics. If he continues moving to the the right to secure the base, they'll be able to nail him as a flip flopping political hack. If he moves left, he risks alienating the base & suppressing the turnout he needs to have a fighting chance.

My prediction remains unchanged: Billary wins.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Thank You. "The Wall" was OUR thanks, yours are appreciated as well. The names of those on the wall are the one's who deserve the real thanks. Were it not for them many of us would not be here. A sobering experience for those that have never been. A gut wrenching experience for those whose family, and buddies are inscribed on it.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

sbvor:

His national security cred aside, Lieberman's as extreme a lefty as Kennedy or Reid. I don't think I could vote for McCain-Leiberman.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

I'm guessing McCain & Huckabee. One would definately compliment the other.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

JazzSlave Posted on January 10 at 9:20 a.m. On Do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you. "spukomy:

You can't miss information that is not disclosed. According to keilbasa & stompk, non-disclosure is the hallmark of believability, and having the gall to question any aspect of it means (especially if you're a conservative) you're a hypocrite.

kielbasa:

In the wake of very recent media-darlings-turned-frauds Jesse Macbeth and Scott Beauchamp (whose identities were garishly disclosed which, according to YOU, represents the unassailable gold standard of authenticity), it is perfectly reasonable to question the probity of the anonymous youtuber. You deride anonymous commentary on this forum while celebrating it on another. You insist that the anonymous youtuber be taken at face value and simultaneously demand that his critics prove a negative. Hypocritical double-standard, anyone? By the way - I'm an astronaut. I "...dare you to prove..." I'm not. If you're that sure, prove it!

Your little pissing contest with AJ is yours and yours alone. Don't expect me to help you bear the cross you're so determined to drag around."

On this thread, JazzSlave says to an anonymous poster who mentions carrying a M16 for 5yrs:

"Speaking as someone who never wore the uniform & put himself in harm's way, you're a better man than I. I'm the LAST man on earth you would ever have to apolgize to.

Thank you for your service."

Only when you agree with their position do you NOT question the validity of an anonymous person unless they show their face?

I look in the mirror and see Jazz staring back.

I even posted your whole posts so as not to have you turn HDNBore and yell "Somebody distorted my words!"

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

kielbasa:

I've also lauded your service, and apologized for assuming you hadn't - and would have done so even if you were anonymous. Based upon your history & interaction here (with everyone; not just me) my instincts tell me that while you're wrong on a lot of things, you're not a liar. That was my impression of you BEORE you began attaching your name to your posts.

That impression hasn't changed, but it has been amended. In the wake of your "anyone who doesn't do as I do is a coward" jive, I have also found you to be arrogant, pretentious, hypocritical, supercilious, sophomoric, and holier than thou.

By the way, how do you know I've never served? Just because I say so? If the anonymous are not to be believed, why bother dignifying our cowardly lies with such lengthy, indignant replies? Because AJ said "yo Momma?" Oh that's right words can "destroy lives." I'll look for the funeral notice & send flowers. You're not anonymous, so I'll know where to have them delivered.

The same instincts & personal interaction that inform my impressions of you lead me to give colobob the benefit of the doubt. The same instincts & personal interaction that inform my impressions of you lead me to believe that dundalk is, indeed, a health care professional married to a local cop. The same instincts & personal interaction that inform my impressions of you lead me to believe that id04sp is, in fact, a retired military aviator and raging homophobe. The same instincts & personal interaction that inform my impressions of you lead me to believe corduroy really does live in Stagecoach. The same instincts & personal interaction that inform my impressions of you lead me to believe that fish, thalgard, dogd, thecondoguy, housepoor, musknosumpin, and wait for it... sbvor, are all who they represent themselves to be. A similar history with the youtuber doesn't exist.

So whine, fret, hiss, and scratch all you like. Your childish "'fraidy cat, 'fraidy cat, 'fraidy cat" refrain says more about you that it does about anyone else here.

By the way, colobob: in addition to being a coward, you're a liar as well - The Frowning One Has Spoken.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

So you're okay with your own whining when confronted with your own hypocrisy. You gave credence to one and not the other, based on whatever the heck you decide for the moment, and then spout a diatribe worthy of my name, according to you own statement. By your own post, you have just typed everything you have accused me of being: arrogant, pretentious, hypocritical, supercilious, sophomoric, and holier than thou.

Welcome to the real world. At least I can take responsibility and accountability for my words and actions. Maybe someday, you will too. But I doubt it. People like you and HDNBore never will.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Completely glossed over the 4th paragraph in my post, didn't you?

Newsflash: dundalk, when you refer to you and your husband's work here in the valley, you're a duplicitous cheat.

id04sp, how dare you anonymously cite a military career, you lying coward.

corduroy, there's no way you've ever lived in Stagecoach, you gutless milquetoast.

I'm willing to bet that you don't believe any of these people are liars, or that the assertions they've made are not credible, despite their anonymity. Why? For the same reason I take them at their word: we've all been participants in this forum for an extended period. We've all had enough back & forth with each other to have a good read on the genuine vs. the posers. The same is not true of the youtuber.

If you DO believe id04sp, dundalk, corduroy, dogd, et al, are not credible, then you and I live in different worlds, and I'm quite happy to be a coward with dundalk, instead of a hero with you.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

Actually, I've met dundalk.

But, let's review, shall we?

1.1) HDNBore tries to play martyr with the whole "Classic Conservative" thing, tilting at windmills of Socialism.

1.2) Kielbasa tries to play martyr with the whole "Classic I Own My Words" thing, tilting at windmills of Anonymity.

1.3) JazzSlave tries to play martyr with the whole "Classic Defender of Rights" thing, tilting at windmills of Attack Artists.

2.1) HDNBore names of contempt include Dim, Demonrat, Troll, Comrade, et. al.

2.2) Kielbasa names of contempt include Idiot, Tool, SVbore, SBhor, Twit, et. al.

2.3) JazzSlave adjectives/names of contempt include Childish, Frowning One, along with "arrogant, pretentious, hypocritical, supercilious, sophomoric, and holier than thou, et. al." had you left out 2 words from that particular portion, you would have earned the Acronym Thesaurus Award. It actually had me laugh out loud!

3) All 3 of us always have to come back to get the last word in, while trying to look above it all.

4) Each one of us purposely tries to push our buttons in all these matters.

5) No matter our ideology, we each sink to the same level and all come off as holier-than-thou, (there it is again! LOL!) admonishing because we feel we're in the right.

Nope. Not so different at all. For all anyone knows, I could be colobob, inventing a nice fantasy to lure you into just such a situation for my own boredom and amusement. I am an actor, remember?

Look at bloggyblog: I've seen the style of typing before, right here on this very forum. I could easily guess as to who it is. I could be wrong. It could be me. My "Steve" character speaks in the 3rd person. I could be smoke, too. All it takes is to just not type in the way I do here. Makes you wonder who else is acting when posting anonymous.

Is it all a conspiracy? Yes, no, maybe so; maybe rain, maybe snow. Our worlds aren't so different after all. Take it as you will.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Except for its flirtation with stompk conspiracy land, that may be your most thoughtful contribution yet.

And if you were smoke/colobob/kielbasa/bloggyblog/ad nauseum, you wouldn't have the time to clear your driveway sans snowblower. You WOULD have an internet fixation that bordered on the unhealthy. In which case, it would be advisable to find a hobby, another job, a therapist, or some combination thereof.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

If one person can think of a conspiracy, why couldn't others and actually implement it? I've known stompk since I was in 8th Grade. While I may not agree with all his thoughts, they can be interesting to fathom.

And the internet fixation...that could also be applied to others, considering number, length and repetition of posts. Right now, it's just can't sleep for crap.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Absent evidence to the contrary, I'm content to take those I interact with (even anonymously) at face value. I deal honestly with them. If I get played by an anonymous member of an anonymous forum, no harm done. Their words won't destroy my life, despite what others may contend.

Insomniacs unite.

I'm in Vegas, for the first time. It's midnight here, & I can tell I'll be up for a while. Can't wait to go home. This place is the anti-Steamboat. A sprawling, urban sh*&hole in the middle of nowhere. And the Strip - asinine beyond description. Gaudy, plastic, artificial, conspicuously excessive.

There was an article in the paper here over the weekend. Some agency decided to do a urinalysis of Vegas' sewage, and determined that We're Number One! when it comes to meth/coke usage. As for the rest of the local rag - it makes the Pilot look like Fun With Dick & Jane.

The Blue Man show was fun; sunshine & mid 60s has been nice, but God help the unfortunates who live here year round.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

I find Las Vegas a great time. We've been there many a time. We're not big gamblers, but we love the shows. We've seen all the Cirque shows there, except the Beatles one. We're going in late April again and seeing Le Reve at the Wynn. Saw Spamalot last year and two times to Blue Man. (2nd time, I won the tix with a "Guess the fully loaded jet weight to nearest to the pound" on Ted Airlines in-flight contest. Just about 40lbs. off, amazingly enough!)

First time we went was in August. 111 degrees one day. We went to Water World that day. My best friend lives down there, too. As long as you overlook the outside, just checking out the hotels can be fun, along with the free Strip shows. The Bellagio fountains are wonderful to watch. I don't like the Treasure Island show any longer, now that it's a T and A show. If you haven't gone downtown, you should to check out The Fremont Street Experience. Wayyy cool!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

Different strokes. Fremont was interesting, but I'm afraid there's nothing here that makes me want to come back.

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smoke 6 years, 6 months ago

jazz if yuou cant have a good time in vegas then you cant have a good time. go beat somone up, it will mak you feel better.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz, Your relative in Hawaii pretty much has it right. As I said "Mixed" was the short answer. Have a great weekend and enjoy your trip to Vegas. Stay away from the roulette table - lowest odds in the casino.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

smoke:

LOFreakinL! you just made laugh out loud. Actually, I've accepted an invitation to work out with some jujitsu guys on Thursday. Grappling isn't my strongest suit, so I'm the one likely to get his a$$ kicked. But I'll learn some new techniques, have some fun, and a couple beers afterwards, at some joint called Gordon Beirsch (sp?). If you're in town, I invite you to join us either at the gym or the watering hole, or both. I'm buying.

Thanks for the concern it's exhilarating to know you care!

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

Minus basic, advanced training, time between tours of duty, but yes: 72 is 6yrs. It's also not 27 months.

See? Everyone NEEDS that last word, don't we?

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz this would be a good place to put this to rest. A look at documentaries of the 60's will provide the answers you seek. The short answer I will provide would be "mixed." And Matt, instead of "take it as you will," I believe I'll just leave it instead.

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz, In my haste to answer your reponse I inadvertantly transposed the number 72, 27 months is the correct duration. So it is I that should apologize to you for giving the the great and powerful OZ a chance to chastize your gracious remarks posted previously. Go ahead Matt, here is your chance to once again discredit and make innuedo's toward another poster. And trust me He's Not colobob! There Matt now are you happy? Youv'e got me to stoop to your level and resort to name calling. I have to tell you it's not a very gratifying experience. With that I return to my tying bench, it helps me come to grips with life. No stress, no anger, nothing but peace and tranquility. Comment as you most assuredly will. I find it ironic that you admonish others for what you yourself do on a regular basis. Good day to you all and may God Bless even those (singular) that I find distasteful.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

You are right: I will comment. The whole point of what I do on this site is to point out people's hypocrisy. I do it by showing my own...but I can admit it. Do I truly think it makes me better than anyone? Yes and no.

Yes- because I can be held accountable. katrinkakelly is seeing to that already. Makes me wonder how kk would know my work schedule, though. Someone else in the company doing the same thing? No, not the least bit hypocritical. LOL! But where was KK posting from? Work? Home? Who knows. KK can say the posts are only from home. Who can prove it? Can't, so no repercussions.

No- because as distasteful as it can be, I try to force others to come to grips with their hypocrisy by showing they absolutely will stoop to whatever level they hate others for stooping to. Anonymity breeds that. Bet a lot of WWII soldiers wished they knew who Iva Toguri D'Aquino was while she was broadcasting as Tokyo Rose, but couldn't at the time. How do you think that made soldiers feel that she couldn't be held accountable? She was even pardoned because people lied at her trial. What about Seoul City Sue? Baghdad Bob (at least we knew who he was)? When you believed Jazz was the one calling you a coward, you immediately ID'd yourself, to a point, and where you'd be in order to draw that person out in the open. Sound familiar?

So there's the long and short of it. Take it as you will.

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424now 6 years, 6 months ago

Debate is a tool of democracy. It is how we hash out our position in the social or political arena. There is no substitute for it.

So many of these debates fall to name calling.

If an idea is unsound one can point out the fault, without insulting someones mother.

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colowoodsman 6 years, 6 months ago

I guess Local is still working on that math problem!

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

This has become inane. Now, everyone who doesn't tow the kielbasa line is a potential traitor, in addition to being liars and cowards. Correlation=Causality. Anonymous=Subversive. My grandfather's name was Takeshi, so FDR was right to throw him into the camps. You are the living embodiment of the old syllogism:

God is love Love is bilind Ray Charles is God

Your katrinakelly example is lost on me. I haven't read whichever discussions you're talking about.

For the record, there are two reasons I maintain anonymity online:

  1. Disclosing your particulars online is a risky proposition. There's a guy I went to high school with in the Pacific Northwest. He recently completed a 3-year prison term, after getting busted for using his computer skills to dig up & abuse others' financial information. Were he still inclined to do so, he could start with no more than your name and location, and have a damned good chance of uncovering great deal of what you believe to be private & secure and use it to completely [expletive deleted] you over.

Incidentally, you may have have seen those "Life Lock" spots on tv the ones with the CEO disclosing his own ss#. For what it's worth, my ex-con buddy tells me it's a good service. (I am not affiliated with the company in any way, & neither is he).

  1. Politics get people riled up, and it's where I tend to weigh in most often. I don't want my politics to cost me business.

The difference between kielbasa and the rest of us here is that we're able to take one another at face value. He's not, and is willing to issue sweeping indictments against people he's never met to wit: we're all cowards and liars. And traitors, LOL.

Capn' kielbasa's on duty! RESPECT HIS AUTHORATAH!

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Matt, one more thing. 72 divided by 12 equals 6 not 5. Does someone need to prove it or is it just so?

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

You don't want your politics to cost you business.

"(They smile in your face) All the time they want to take your place The back stabbers (back stabbers)"

The O'Jays

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 6 months ago

And if you worry about your politics costing you business, maybe you should stay hidden. Speaks loads about you.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

colobob:

If it's not too uncomfortable, how good or bad was the prevailing attitude towards you as a returning soldier? I was only 6 or 7 when Nixon pulled the plug.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

colobob:

Thanks. I've seen some of the documentaries you refer to, which have all focused on how awful it was. "Mixed" is a little more positive than I might have expected. The one relative I have who did tours in Nam is from Hawaii. It's a different vibe on the islands, so he was insulated from a lot of that crap.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 6 months ago

No problem - I don't gamble. Unless you count my blind date this week. Talk about lousy odds!

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colobob 6 years, 6 months ago

Jazz, I thought you said I didn't gamble. I hope you win and that roulette doesn't turn out to have been the better choice. Have a safe and enjoyable trip as well as a safe and speedy return.

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