Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall

Photo by Brian Ray

Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall

Wall to face DUI charges

Routt County sheriff scheduled for two hearings today

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A sheriff in court

Oct. 27, 2007

- Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall is pulled over by the Colorado State Patrol at Walton Creek Road and U.S. Highway 40 for an alleged failure to dim his headlights. He subsequently is cited for driving under the influence of alcohol. The State Patrol revokes Wall's driver's license because he refuses any tests of his blood alcohol level. Wall later appeals the revocation and is issued a temporary license while awaiting a hearing with the Colorado Department of Revenue.

Oct. 28, 2007

- Reached on his cell phone while returning from a World Series game in Denver, Wall denies the charges: "I did not consume anything that would have affected my ability to drive." Wall continues to affirm his innocence in the days following, but, shortly thereafter, refuses to discuss the charges any further. Wall and his lawyer, Steamboat Springs attorney Ron Smith, have not commented about the charges outside of the courtroom since.

Oct. 31, 2007

- 14th Judicial District Assistant District Attorney Kerry St. James files a motion for appointment of a special prosecutor, citing his office's close working relationship with the Routt County Sheriff's Office. The motion is later granted, and Mark Hurlbert of the Fifth Judicial District is assigned the case. Hurlbert later assigns the case to one of his deputies, Karen Romeo.

Dec. 4, 2007

- In Wall's first court appearance related to the drunken driving charges, the case is continued after the prosecution and defense say their investigations are not complete. Routt County Judge James Garrecht says he eventually will recuse himself from the case because of the court's close working relationship with the Sheriff's Office.

Dec. 19, 2007

- Department of Revenue Hearing Officer Art Julian upholds the State Patrol's yearlong revocation of Wall's driver's license after a telephone hearing. In his decision and order, Julian writes that he found the troopers' testimony more credible than testimony delivered on Wall's behalf.

Jan. 16

- Wall makes his second court appearance. Discussion focuses on Romeo's request for a change of venue because of what she called "massive, pervasive and prejudicial" publicity in Routt County. The case is delayed again. Garrecht recuses himself from the case. Senior Judge Cecil Wayne Williams, a veteran of the Grand County bench, is later appointed to the case.

Jan. 18

- Smith files an appeal of Julian's decision to uphold the State Patrol's revocation of Wall's driver's license.

Feb. 13

- In a court hearing, Williams denies Romeo's motion to change venue: "I do not find them to be massive," Williams said of Steamboat Pilot & Today newspaper articles Romeo submitted as a supplement to her motion. "I do not find them to be pervasive. And I do not find them to be prejudicial."

March 4

- In a telephone hearing, Smith says Wall is prepared to enter a plea in the criminal case, but all parties agree to reset that case to trail Wall's appeal of his license revocation.

11 a.m. today

- Wall to appear in Routt County Court.

— Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall is scheduled to appear in Routt County Court today for hearings in two cases related to charges that he drove drunk on an October night last year.

The first hearing, scheduled for 11 a.m. at the Routt County Justice Center, is an appeal of the revocation of Wall's driver's license. A hearing in Wall's criminal case will follow the appeal hearing, according to court documents. The criminal case includes failure to dim headlights and DUI charges, as well as possession of a weapon while under the influence of alcohol.

The Colorado State Patrol revoked Wall's license for one year because he refused any tests of his blood alcohol level after being pulled over in his county-owned vehicle while driving home from the Steamboat Springs Chamber Resort Association's 100th anniversary celebration on Oct. 27, 2007. Wall initially was pulled over about 10:15 p.m. that night, for an alleged failure to dim his headlights at U.S. Highway 40 and Walton Creek Road in Steamboat Springs.

Wall appealed the revocation and was issued a temporary license, but the Colorado Department of Revenue up-

held the revocation in December 2007. Hearing officer Art Julian wrote that he found state troopers' testimony more credible than testimony delivered on Wall's behalf. Wall and his lawyer, Steamboat Springs Attorney Ron Smith, are requesting a judicial review of that decision and accuse the State Patrol and Julian of inappropriate behavior. They say the State Patrol did not have probable cause to pull Wall over or arrest him.

In her response to the appeal, special prosecutor Karen Romeo rejects Smith's argument that it would have been impossible for Trooper Melissa Fowler to distinguish Wall's high beams from overhead lights at U.S. 40 and Walton Creek Road. She also writes that evidence the troopers say they observed - including Wall's failure to dim his headlights, the smell of alcohol, his red and glassy eyes and slow and muted speech - was sufficient to charge Wall with DUI.

Romeo did not return a phone message left at her office Monday. Wall and Smith have refused to discuss the case.

- To reach Brandon Gee, call 871-4210

or e-mail bgee@steamboatpilot.com

Comments

Scott Wedel 6 years, 7 months ago

I think Gary Wall has been a good Sheriff and certainly there has not been any disaster as predicted by his critics after the election, but I think he is wrong on this.

It is simply ridiculous to argue that someone in front of a car with headlights on cannot tell the difference if the high beams or low beams are on. You can often tell the difference when the sun is out and the overhead lights of an intersection is nothing compared to bright lights pointed at you.

As Sheriff, he had to know the consequences of not taking a breath test. When he decided to refuse to take the test he had to know that he was going to lose his driver's license. I would expect when he was pulled over he was smart enough to consider his situation and decided that it was better to lose his driver's license than risk blowing above the limit.

I am not saying that I know or believe he was above the limit. It is very easy at that sort of event over several hours with food and drink to leave thinking you are fine, but when pulled over and asked to take a breath test to rethink the drinks consumed over the time and realize that you could be over the legal limit. And then you have to decide whether to automatically lose your license for a year or risk blowing over the limit.

That said, the legal case pf criminal DUI would seem to be a waste of time. I was there before and after the event which was held on the sand of an indoor horse arena. That is nasty smelly dust which certainly made my eyes red and it'd take a world class nose to smell alcohol over the smell of horse. Over a hundred people in there dancing with a band made dust.

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jturbo 6 years, 7 months ago

Sheriff Wall knew the risks of not talking the Field Sobriety tests and now he must face the consequences. Why should he be exempt from the law he was elected to enforce?
Why is it that we never heard the outcome of the internal investigation (Sheriffs office) into his case? Sheriff Wall should stand up and admit that he made a mistake and face the consequences of his actions.
Save the taxpayers of Routt County some money and your own attorney fees and do the right thing. Admit you were wrong and that you did not do as was required by law - submit to a Filed Sobriety test and let the chips fall where they may.

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shadow 6 years, 7 months ago

Sheriff Wall made his decision when he decided to not cooperate by taking the sobiety test. As public official in a leadership capacity, he should not try to wiggle out of his error on an imaginary technicality and create friction between the Sheriff's department and the CSP. Its quite a stretch to say anyone can't discern bright lights under a street lamp.

If he was sober, he had an opportunity to prove it and he voluntarily and knowingly passed on the opportunity. To accuse the Troopers of "inappropriate behavior" is, well, inappropriate at a minimum. It reflects Wall's lack of accountability. These are the same Troopers that gave him a break by not hauling his @$$ to his jail run by his staff. I think the CSP were acting to help Wall save face among his subordinates by not forcing them to "book" their boss.

At least Carmelo Anthony was man enough to acknowledge his bad judgement and face the music. So have many others in Routt County it seems by reading recent apologies in the Today. The ones that acknowledge their mistake deserve an opportunity to straighten out their lives and be given a chance after they've complied with penalties.

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

I am also wondering what came of the internal investigation. The Steamboat Pilot has suspended Melinda Dudley while they do an internal investigation into her DUI. Why wasn't Wall suspended, when we know any other employee of his office would be? Now it's been 7 months since Wall was pulled over and I don't think we'll ever hear anything about the internal investigation. Wall is the authority on that investigation! That's a major conflict of interest.

I agree that he would look a lot better if he would admit and apologize.

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

Wall brought this whole mess upon himself and he is determined to wriggle out of it no matter how many lives and reputations he has to destroy to do it. Scott, you're wrong about it taking a world class nose to smell alcohol over the smell of horse. I have a drink or two every so often and I can smell a drunk over just about anything, it would stand out even more to a non drinker. A heavy drinker might lose the ability to smell alcohol over horse, but not your normal sober person. Had I only had one drink, smelled like a horse and had red eyes from the dust, I'd have jumped at the chance of a blood test to prove my innocence, most sober people would. As I stated in another post: The County Sheriff gets a DUI and possession of a weapon while under the influence and it's business as usual but an unarmed reporter gets suspended. I know the Pilot has the right to create and enforce their own policies concerning DUI, but wouldn't you think the county or state would have such a policy for drunken public officials?

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

I predict:

  1. dismissal of the criminal case for lack of evidence

  2. reversal of the license revocation

Why?

Because the "system" has a lot to lose if it goes any other way. Private investigators don't need a warrant . . . .

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

AHHH, but certain "Private investigators" would NEVER violate someones civil liberties; he might defame their character, ruin their reputation and tank their career to get off, but never would he violate someones civil liberties.

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shadow 6 years, 7 months ago

Scott, Sorry but I disagree with the 'horse smell defense." I don't believe the troopers are fabricating their story about smelling alcohol on Wall. For them to do so would mean they've conspired against him. I don't believe that.

To date I've not heard a plausible explanation for why Wall wouldn't take the sobriety test. If his story held water, he would have submitted to any test and have been exonerated.

There is only one reason for him to refuse testing, we all know what that reason is.

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papafu 6 years, 7 months ago

Speaking of Ms Dudley, why was she suspended? I don't think most folks are suspended from there job for receiving a DUI.

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

Probably because her job description includes driving. She's the crime and court reporter, so that might cause a conflict of interest, as well.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Well, I guess I was wrong. Who'd have thought that a judge in Routt County wouldn't even listen to the evidence before denying the motion? Pretty much everybody who's had the experience of hiring the wrong lawyer, I guess.

"A trial court has considerable discretion to determine whether evidence has logical relevance. People v. Saiz, 32 P.3d 441 (Colo. 2001). A trial court's evidentiary ruling will not be disturbed on appeal absent an abuse of discretion. Abuse of discretion occurs when the trial court's ruling is manifestly arbitrary, unreasonable, or unfair. People v. Milton, 732 P.2d 1199 (Colo. 1987)."

A ruling was made without hearing any evidence or testimony at all.

That's fair? What about civil liberties? "You're guilty, end of story," is the way this was handled.

And people complain about using a waterboard on terrorists . . . .

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

id04, "A ruling was made without hearing any evidence or testimony at all.", Wall appealed the revocation of his license and lost, what kind of testimony would they present at yet another hearing? Law says if you refuse to take a test (blood or breath) you lose your license, he refused as previously established so he lost, end of story. Sounds like Wall may not be able to squirm out of this as easily as he thought! With Wall's refusal to take any responsibility for his actions, his refusal to take a test and not accepting the consequences for that refusal, he should be looking for another line of work because he sure as hell doesn't belong in law enforcement.

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ekruoro52 6 years, 7 months ago

Imagine if this guy killed someone on the way home with his car,he's a lucky guy!

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ekruoro52 6 years, 7 months ago

Imagine if he had killed someone on the way home with his car,he's a lucky guy!

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

justa,

SWORN testimony. The CDR hearing is an administrative proceeding without jurisdiction over criminal matters. These hearings are subject to appeal in a real court just BECAUSE of the fact that the "hearing officer" is not a judge. There is no "Art Julian" listed as a licensed attorney in Colorado.

The whole system is a sham, which usually doesn't matter, because most people they stop and accuse of DUI really are. The rest of the time, as in this case, it just might be a handy little political tool, or a way to even a score.

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weallnutz 6 years, 7 months ago

Suspension, firing over Dui's....the county should take lead from the paper....oh wait they can't because the voters elected this guy, we should be more careful with our votes

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

42,

If using addictive or illegal substances was a reason to disqualify a person from public office, there would be a lot of empty chairs around.

I really don't think a man who's 65 or 66 is going to worry very much about "damaging" his career. He's taking a huge risk by going to trial, and maybe that's the most courageous act anyone in this town in law enforcment or administration of justice has taken in a long damn time.

Think about it. Wall could have taken a plea, resigned his office, moved away to some little town in Wyoming or Nevada, and retired. Do you honestly think his salary as sheriff will cover his legal fees? He'd have had far less to lose all the way around if he had just given in and taken the easy way out. We'd have had another election, and now we'd have some former street cop Nazi letting the "quality of life" matters go without regard to the welfare of our citizens, just like the past decade.

When cops conspire to frame someone, it falls under the category of racketeering. An acquittal in Wall's criminal trial could easily lead to a civil suit against the CSP officers and others who acted against Wall that night, and might even lead to criminal charges for deprivation of civil rights under color of law. It depends on what comes out at the trial. If it turns out that any of the officers and others involved in this case lied to investigators, that's a criminal charge which, if convicted, precludes a defense against charges of racketeering in a civil trial. That's federal law, and I hope we see it applied.

I really hate it that everyone has assumed that, just because the CSP officers claimed that Wall was, "red-eyed, unsteady, and a strong odor of alcohol was detected," that's how it really was. Where is the video evidence? Is there a reason the CSP doesn't use videos like other agencies. Uh-huh. It shows what actually occurred, not what the officers claimed. The claims made by the CSP are book, chapter and verse right out of the "probable cause" conditions for alcohol intoxication. They write down exactly the same accusations for EVERYBODY who is ever stopped. They might as well have a rubber stamp. It's as automatic as saying, "Thank you," when somebody holds a door open for you.

Too bad more of you have not seen as many police reports as I have. DUI reports are so "canned" the "red eyes, strong odor of alcohol," etc. might as well be printed on the form. It wouldn't matter if Wall could recite the alphabet backwards while extracting the square root of seventeen in his head as he walked a tight-rope in a windstorm; the report would have said, "red-eyes, unsteady, strong odor . . . " etc. It's what they are taught to put in the report, as so they do, whether or not it's true.

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80488mom 6 years, 7 months ago

Fudjack - She would not be the first person employed by the paper (I can think of two in recent history off the top of my head) to lose her job for getting a DUI, illegal/improper conduct. The paper, regardless of what you may think of it, takes their reputation and the reputation of their employees seriously. They have a high code of conduct and professionalism.

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shadow 6 years, 7 months ago

While Wall could have vindicated himself by submitting to the blood alcohol test (if he wasn't intoxicated), what evidence is available to the prosecution that his blood alcohol was above the legal limit?

What case can be made that he is guilty of anything more than failure to dim his headlights? Is the only evidence the testimony of the arresting officers that , "he appeared intoxicated"? Likely non-conclusive.

It's likely he'll skate. The only inconvenience imposed will be the loss of his license for a year.

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

id, rule#1, refuse test, lose license.. he refused, he lost. He is not claiming he took the test and a cop lost the paperwork or altered the results which would be the only reason I can see to waste time and money on a judicial appeal so he can try to whine his way out of breaking rule #1. What a shame, Wall gets subjected to the same rules that apply for us common folk.

nutz, some of us were very careful with our votes, not all of us rallied at the battle cry "change" to the point of ignoring the man. Some people believe everything they're told and look no deeper than a well rehearsed speech by a convincing personality, unfortunately you can see the results.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

justa . . .

It is very obvious that Mr. Wall was targeted by the CSP as a result of a "tip" phoned in by a disgruntled (fired) former RCSO employee attending the dinner. Knowing some of the shenannigans that these folks have pulled over the years, I would have no reason to discount the possibility of a doping in this case. I've explained here many times the effects of chloral hydrate, and how easy it would have been to pull off by a person serving drinks (including coffee).

There are sixteen people standing around waiting to testify that Wall was completely coherent when he left the dinner. If there are sixteen people willing to come forward to aid his defense, doesn't it strike you as ODD that NONE OF THEM stopped him from driving that night? Giving him a ride home would have been a lot less trouble and far more private than swearing out an affidavit for use in court.

Think about it. Sixteen people are willing to LIE about Wall's condition, or else he suddenly became incoherent a few minutes after leaving the dinner. A CH doping just before leaving the dinner is a perfectly plausible explanation for what happened that night.

So, as I've stated before, Wall is either the dumbest SOB on the planet to get drunk at a public function and then drive home, OR he was doped. The 2nd through 17th dumbest people on the planet would have had to let him drive, too, and now be willing to lie for him. That doesn't make sense.

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

AGAIN: If Wall was doped, why didn't he take the test???? No matter what circumstance Wall wants to sell to this community and possibly his jury, the question of "Why didn't he take the test?" will remain.

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

Benny, please don't get id started on the conspiracy theory and how the drug works again. You and I understand rules and consequences, id has so much hatred for the previous administration and his/her head stuck so far up Wall's uh, (you understand) that he/she can't fathom the idea that his/her chosen one really could be "the dumbest SOB on the planet". id has had some good comments on many subjects but Wall ain't one of 'em.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Benny,

I have explained about ten times already that when someone is doped with CH, the ability to think rationally does not exist. Would a spy normally reveal his identity as a spy, or tell what he was looking for, or what he had found, etc? Of course not. That's why "hypnotic" substances such as CH have been used so successfully in just this kind of situation. Corny or not, "resistance is futile" if the stuff effects you in the right way.

LSD is a result of CIA research into mind-altering substances which could be used to extract information without leaving a chemical trace. The idea was to be able to dope someone, obtain information from him, and then have him return to his regular life without any memory of the event, or any detectable chemical trace of a hypnotic substance lingering to be detected. CH, sodium pentothal, etc., can have after effects which tip off the victim that he's been drugged -- but it's like a hangover AFTER recovering from the drug. It also depends on the dose and the individual.

Some people become cooperative when doped, and some become combative. It's not perfect. In this case, Wall didn't cooperate. If he was doped, it's not his fault.

So, you never heard of it, don't believe in it, etc? Hey, nobody believed in Black Holes a few years ago either. That didn't mean the things hadn't been around for billions of years.

Steamboat and Routt County have lots of smart, well-read people. It just wouldn't be that hard to do if you had motive and opportunity. I think both of those factors existed on the night of the dinner, and it is POSSIBLE that we are dealing with the results now. Either that, or Wall and his 16 friends are the dumbest people on Earth.

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Hadleyburg_Press 6 years, 7 months ago

idspo4 has got this one covered. If Wall is convicted it is because people in the legal system have a score to settle with him. If Wall is not convicted, it is because he has dirt on people in the legal system. Pretty smooth.

idsp04, Did you ever consider a political career or perhaps working as a lobbiest? You would have been great.

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Hadleyburg_Press 6 years, 7 months ago

Lobbyist not lobbiest, unless of course, id04sp likes hanging out in lobbies. ;)

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

Id,

Kind of off topic, but I must respond. The CIA had nothing to do with the invention of LSD. LSD was created by Albert Hofmann who was employed by a Swiss pharmaceutical company when he was working with a fungus that grows on rye. It was a drug that was supposed to be used in patients who have psycological disorders such as schizophrenia. LSD is not a result of the CIA trying to extract information from people. Perhaps it was used later for that by the CIA, but I have never seen any information about that and I know it definetly wasn't created by the CIA or anyone else for that purpose. Hofmann just died at the age of 102. To bring this back to topic: perhaps you are misinformed about your CH theory, as well.

I don't think Wall is dumb, I just think that if it walks like a drunk, smells like a drunk, drives like a drunk......

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Hadleyburg_Press 6 years, 7 months ago

A little spook history:

Project MK-ULTRA, or MKULTRA, was the code name for a covert CIA mind-control and chemical interrogation research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence, that began in the early 1950s and continued at least through the late 1960s.[1][2][3] There is much published evidence that the project involved the surreptitious use of many types of drugs, as well as other methodology, to manipulate individual mental states and to alter brain function.[4]

Project MK-ULTRA was first brought to wide public attention in 1975 by the U.S. Congress, through investigations by the Church Committee, and by a presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MK-ULTRA files destroyed in 1973.[5]

Although the CIA insists that MK-ULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti has stated in various interviews that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind control research continued. In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically called the CIA claim that MK-ULTRA was abandoned a 'cover story.'.[6][7]

On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:

The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.' At least one death, that of Dr. [Frank] Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.[8]

-wikipedia-

It was used at times by spook agencies during the Cold War as well.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

justa,

I didn't vote for Wall.

Wish I had.

The county seems to be running just fine. All the disasters everybody predicted have not come true. Things are better in my part of the county because of him.

He's a better sheriff drunk than his predecessor was sober. Give thanks that you don't have personal experience to prove it.

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

Okay, so Albert Hofmann created LSD and the CIA tested it on individuals, but did not get the results they were looking for. Thanks for the info HP.

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

Id,

What has Sheriff Wall done that makes things better in your part of the county?

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

Id04, after reading your posts, I have a few questions that I would like your opinion on.

Is it your opinion that Gary Wall is using County & CBI resources for his private investigative business while in the position of Sheriff? "Because the "system" has a lot to lose if it goes any other way. Private investigators don't need a warrant "

Do you think State Laws regarding refusal of testing don't apply to the Sheriff, but to all other people? "A ruling was made without hearing any evidence or testimony at all"

This is a two part question, Of the 16 people that are going to testify (out of the 200 interviewed), in your opinion, do you think they will do a better job, opposed to the CDR hearing of testimony where they were similar? And of the 16 people, would anyone one of them volunteer to drive a County vehicle?

Of the 200 people being interviewed by three officers at the Sheriffs Office, do you think its actually interviewing, or selective witness survey? And do you think the Judge will order the results of the internal investigation into Court?

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Hadley,

The thing is, if I thought he was guilty, I wouldn't have any sympathy for him.

I've had the experience of dealing with the local system, and being systematically denied justice because of political agendas.

If it can happen to a little nobody like me, then why are people surprised when it happens to a controversial political figure?

Thanks for the details on the LSD and doping subject. I believe your information is accurate as far as open sources go.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

CoJo,

I have no knowledge whatsoever of Gary Wall's private business. I didn't know he still had one. That is probably a conflict of interest if he actively particpates. My speculation was that Wall has ties to PIs, and some of them might be able to turn up information that the CBI would never even think to look for. CBI agents still eat if they don't find the crooks. PIs don't eat unless they get results.

State laws apply to everybody. So why have an appeal process if the courts are not even going to consider the evidence? I'd say the judge is the one who failed in his duty to follow the law by summarily dismissing the appeal without further ado. The thing is, the CDR hearing is not a criminal court, and the hearing officer is not an attorney or a judge. Where's the oversight if not in the judicial system through the right to appeal?

When the 16 testify, they will be talking to a lawyer in front of a jury. Why assume that a pissant civil servant hearing officer for the Colorado Department of Revenue has any standing to pass judgment on anyone? (A pissant, also seen as piss-ant and piss ant, is one or the other of two specific types of ant. The word can also refer to an inconsequential, irrelevant, or worthless person, especially one who is irritating or contemptible out of proportion to his or her significance. Its origin is with pismire, a 14th-century word for ant.)

Nobody would have had to drive a county vehicle home. They could have given the sheriff a ride in their Tahoe or Expedition and left the cruiser at the dinner, n'est ce pas?

I hope every shred of every type of evidence that anyone knows is brought into court and that the truth is found, and that justice prevails.

Benny,

RCSO is enforcing laws regarding snowmobiles, 4-wheelers, etc. on county roads instead of saying, "it's a civil matter," that's what. Kids on dirt bikes shreiking up and down the road in front of YOUR house may be okay, but I don't enjoy the noise and dust.

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

Id04: So says Wikipedia, Anywho, your really pissed, or is that pissed-off, or just getting pissed?

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

CoJo,

I'm just killing time while batch jobs run. I could be watching you.tube instead, but this is more interesting.

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dundalk 6 years, 7 months ago

Putting aside my opinion that Wall is a total schmooe, the bottom line is that he had a drink (one he claims) and was carrying a loaded firearm. That alone is wrong. I have personally seen him at other functions where he has had more than ONE drink and was carrying a firearm. Want specifics? He was at the Routt County Search & Rescue Fundraiser last September, with Bustos who was also toting a gun and drinking. Gary was found at his usual area, belly up at the bar.

I don't know how anyone with any sense of reasonable thinking can look beyond the evidence of our elected sheriff walking around with a loaded firearm, consuming alcohol and driving a county owned vehicle.

But hey, that's just me.

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Hadleyburg_Press 6 years, 7 months ago

id04sp, It should be an interesting trial. We will probably never know the truth as that is the first victim of a trial. Your theories are plausible but in my mind not likely. The Cold War taught you and me quite a bit about what is possible and how business is conducted. I have an open mind to conspiracies, but I doubt our podunk hamlet holds the type of people that understand those types of ops or the discipline to carry them out. I have been wrong before though. Lots of things eb and flow out of the eyes of mainstreet Steamboat, and nothing surprises me anymore, regardless of how much violence is done to my reasoning in the process.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Hadley,

I would not be at all surprised to find out that there are CSP officers who have served in the armed forces and are well aware of the techniques used to obtain information covertly, or through slipping someone "A Mickey." People talk to each other. Someone with the knowledge, and the motivation, and the opportunity could easily pull it off. All it takes is a trusting foil and a moment's inattention.

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gatorhunter 6 years, 7 months ago

Having witnessed the lengths that political entities go to win their personal battles in this town, I have not a doubt that Wall was drugged. Anyone with their head out of their ass can see the obvious set-up. The police are getting away with harassment. Failure to dim headlights is a ridiculous reason to pull someone over. Maybe these cops should be paying more attention to the car and residential burglaries taking place around here. This is a pathetic waste of energy for some sore loser out for revenge.

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

Interesting theory:: so YOU BOTH think Wall was driving under the influence of drugs and not alcohol. That may explain the bright light confusion. Streetlights, bright lights:..Driving under the influence of drugs while caring a gun in possession of a County vehicle is much better than alcohol. Good job.

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

Interesting:.that would make things different. Driving under the influence of a drugs:..while carrying a firearm::in possession of a County vehicle is way better than alcohol.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Dundalk,

Maybe he kept his bullet in his pocket, like all of Warner's deputies used to do. At least he was out among the people instead of sitting in his office not paying attention to anything.

At least from reports in the Pilot, Routt County seems to be a more peaceful place than in the past. This might be a result of Wall having his people out being visible in the county instead of answering the phone to tell people that everything except assault and battery is a "civil matter."

The laws don't prohibit ANYBODY from consuming alcohol and carrying a firearm. They only prohibit an INTOXICATED person from carrying a firearm. Same for driving. I don't approve of such actions either, but things are better now than they used to be, so I'll take the lesser of two evils.

Oh, by the way, as a former competitive shooter, I know that a little bit of alcohol increases your accuracy by calming you and reducing your heart rate. It also interferes with depth perception, but that's not an issue for shooting, only for landing an airplane.

By the way, when was the last time a Routt County officer actually fired a weapon while responding to a call?

And, while we're at it, does your husband ever carry his off-duty weapon concealed while dining out? Does he ever have a beer or a glass of wine? What about all the other SSPD, RCSO and CSP officers?

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dundalk 6 years, 7 months ago

Id:

I have been off the forum for a bit, but it is comforting to read your posts and see that you are still in denial. I did catch the last part of Mel Gibson's old movie about conspiracies, etc and thought of you.

A little bit of alcohol increases your accuracy by calming you? Gotta luv that statement.

I will take a sober gun handler any day, and twice of Tuesdays, over someone who has a little bit of alcohol for accuracy's sake.

But hey, that's just me.

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shadow 6 years, 7 months ago

Id:

Could that alcohol-caused interference with depth perception lead to a greater need for keeping your brights on in the face of oncoming traffic?

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oldskoolstmbt 6 years, 7 months ago

ID-iot- wow, i must agree w/ dundalk (and justa on earlier posts)... your more frightning than Wall.... depth perception isn't an issue when shooting?You have obviously never taken an hunter safety course? and your comment on the accuracy...are u for real???

Wall: "ID, let's jes finish up this little bit of alcheehol and go shoot us some moose" ID:"OK! i know der's some in my neighbor's yard!" Wall: "No, i tink dey were in your yard!" ID:" It don't matta how close or far away dey are...cuz' now dat my heart rate is down and i'm ALL calmed down...we get 'im good buddy"

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

Thanks Benny, now that you know what a pissant is, why did you have to go and get one started again?

id, I'll take a sheriff sitting in his office not paying attention to anything over a drunken sheriff carrying a loaded weapon out amongst the people any day! Anyone this bitter over kids on dirt bikes deserves sympathy, are you also the caller of suspicious persons driving on YOUR road? How about needing cops because there are deer in your yard, are those your calls?

dundalk, I agree and anyone that thinks a "little bit of alcohol increases your accuracy" is an alcoholic making an excuse for that little nip. GUNS AND ALCOHOL DO NOT MIX, PERIOD!

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mfishon1 6 years, 7 months ago

In a small town your reputation proceeds you. If you are known as someone who likes to "tip the bottle" and then you go to a public event...carrying a weapon...and then admit that you were drinking but refused to take the breath test. Yikes...it doesn't take the help of other people to get you in trouble - you are "setting yourself up" for trouble. I'm not saying Wall is guilty of DUI at this point because the jury gets to decide that...but he definelty fails the "good judgement/common sense" test at a minimum.

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

Can someone explain to me how a department investigates itself. Any self respecting department would not investigate themselves. We have three officers interviewing over 200 people that were not on scene::.

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mfishon1 6 years, 7 months ago

Wow...wanna compare the character of leaders...check out this congressman who was just arrested on DWI. For a second I was going to think those same Routt County conspriators who got Wall must also be working in NYC....but then I see the congressman's response...."Last night I made an error in judgment," Fossella said. "As a parent, I know that taking even one drink of alcohol before getting behind the wheel of a car is wrong. I apologize to my family and the constituents of the 13th Congressional District for embarrassing them, as well as myself."

Can someone post Wall's apology? Hmm...I can't quite find an apology anywhere. He did admit he was drinking at the party...and we know he was carrying a weapon....but the only thing I rememer him saying is "he believed the troopers did not have probable cause to require the test" and his other argument of "there is a bounty on my head."

The implied message to kids is "Kids...it is okay to drink and carry weapons while driving in your car...just make sure you have a good excuse or two ready for when you get caught."

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SilverSpoon 6 years, 7 months ago

Drinking and driving is a no-no. However, A local teacher has had their name dragged through the mud for having 2 drinks and being behind the wheel. The problem she ran into, is that she admitted to be drinking. Once that is established, they would have had to run the sobriety gauntlet, which is based on a police officers opinion. But they insisted on going to the station for "real" conclusive tests, which weeks later turned out to be below the legal limit

So i found out what you are to do, saying "no, i have not been drinking" would be lying and could help you get procecuted even if you were under the legal limit.

Here is what lawyers say: "Explain to the police that you know your DUI rights; you may refuse a handheld Breathalyzer, you may refuse the field sobriety test. Your DUI rights allow you to refuse to answer any questions, including the amount of alcohol you have consumed. DUI rights do not allow you to refuse to identify yourself, however, and the DUI rights allowing you to decline field-testing do not extend to the jailhouse. Exercise your DUI rights once booked and use your phone call to contact a trusted loved one or an attorney."

I am all for getting the punishment you deserve and protecting people from drunk drivers, however, blowing a 0.07 and walking the fine line while touching your nose while being watched by an officer, It may be easier to incriminate yourself than one might think. Even though, the breathalizer +- 0.02 may be your savior or your executioner. Due process is necessary because of "slick" police intimidation.

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

................And rely on the fact that the jury pool are simple folk............cant be guilty with no evidence.

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bandmama 6 years, 7 months ago

mfishon1- as a parent I thank you AND to ID- please refer to my previous arguements from the other article....... Come on ID, even if he was drugged, which is a pretty far fetched idea, he was still drinking (one or 800 glasses) publicly, with a firearm and got behind the wheel of the car, careless, stupid and any one of the rest of us would have had our behinds in jail....not driven home by a county employee. Please let that wonderful intuitive brain of yours see that simple poor error in judgement got him in trouble, not a roofie.

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bandmama 6 years, 7 months ago

id- also, since you are so firmly convinced of a conspriacy, have you possibly considered the fact that those same kids that used to ride thier motor scooters and dirt bikes and such now because of you have no where to play and be kids and THEY are the ones behind the current rash of thefts in the valley? Do puppies bother you as well, or just kids being kids? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM????? (yes again, dripping sarcasm)

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Folks, all I've got to say is that I learned about shooting from military folks who do it for a living.

In competitive shooting, a glass or two of wine, or a beer or two the evening before an early morning match has been found to have a steadying effect by lowering the heart rate of the shooter. It's called "being relaxed."

As for the depth perception part of it, you need binocular vision for depth perception. When you sight a weapon, you only use one eye. The other eye is either closed, or preferably open and out of focus. The image provided through ONE EYE has no depth perception associated with it at all. Perspective, yes, but depth perception, NO. This is how you can have the sights of the weapon AND the target in focus at the same time through one eye. Can't do it through both eyes because of parallax.

And I think Silverspoon has summed it up well. And so has CoJo just below Silver.

The field test is inaccurate. A "real" test needs to be done at the hospital to get definitive results. I believe that the CSP knew they didn't have a case against Wall and that a "real" test would have proven him innocent. The CSP should have taken him to the Routt County Jail, and booked him, and gotten the BAC test, just like they'd have done with any of us in the same situation if they really thought we were DUI. They have hung their whole case on the alleged "refusal" because that's all they have, and that's all there was. The rest of it is lies made up to support their actions; but then you have to ask why they didn't follow procedure and take him to jail to be booked? BECAUSE they had the "refusal" they could stick him with, and they knew he wasn't DUI. Booking him, and testing him would have killed the whole matter.

The whole thing has been fishy from the moment it happened. If they really had a case, they'd have procured the evidence and made a case. As it is, they've just caught him on a technicality not foreseen by the legislature when they enacted the implied consent law.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Yes, well the thing I have really discovered here is that very few people have had the privilege of asking for help from local law enforcement prior to Mr. Walls's election.

The CBI does not respond to crime reports from average citizens. I know this from having called them to report extortion and tax evasion amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars against me and my neighbors (who are afraid to come forward for fear of revenge by the extortionists).

Sorry, Dundalk, but there's a big difference between having a drink or two at 10 PM and shooting at 8 AM and being blotto when you pick up the weapon. You need to find the ability to look at a situation that's not dead on one extreme or the other.

Uh, Twins, sorry to burst your bubble, but Wikipedia wasn't standing on the roadside the night I was stopped and given a field sobriety test, including a breathalyzer, that showed I was under the limit. I had been drinking indeed, but had waited long enough to be "legal" before driving. Turns out, however, that being under .05 is enough to let you do 47 in a 35 zone coming back from the hot springs. I was treated very courteously and fairly in that situation by a RCSO deputy who was a retired army artillery E-9, who took the time to explain it all to me. I also learned that "zero" is the way to go, and that's what I've done ever since. So yeah, the field test is not 100% accurate, and they have to take you to town for a blood test (Blood Alcohol Content) to make a legal case for DUI, DWAI, etc. There are procedures to be followed, and the CSP didn't do it that night, and that's what has puzzled me this whole time. And FYI, a breath test will read WAY HIGH if you've just consumed alcohol, because it will be in your mouth and nose. The cops are supposed to watch you for 30 minutes and make sure you don't belch before giving the "real" breathalyzer test in town, because that will cause the machine to give a false, high reading. Blood is the way to go if you're innocent, and if you're not, you deserve to be charged and pay the price.

I'm not in favor of people who are DWAI or worse getting away with anything. I'm in favor of law enforcment officers following the law and procedure rather than setting people up to even a score.

This is not the first, or even the second, case I know about where cops lied and use the "implied consent" law to get a conviction for the DA for small-town political purposes.

The thing is, if Wall was really DUI, they don't have the evidence to prove it other than opinions by CSP cops who, last time I heard, didn't have the ability to determine a driver's BAC by smelling a passenger's breath. If he was guilty, I'd want to see him pay the max penalty. THe fact that the CSP didn't take the steps to PROVE guilt on the weapons charge proves that they are either incompetent, or had a reason NOT to get the test.

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CoJustice 6 years, 7 months ago

::..or, with Walls big "I am superior, I am the great OZ, how dare you attitude",::::. and the CSP officer may be thinking is this guy a threat to himself and other people on the road?

The CSP officer was very professional on how he handled the situation.

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TwinsViewer 6 years, 7 months ago

I'm new to the forum but not to the area. Afer reviewing the comments, I must make my own. Since I don't know anyone from this forum, I'll be global in my comments with no background as to whom/what/when etc.

First off, the SHERIFF gets arrested for DUI by the State Patrol. - That's a rip roaring whole belly laugh!!!! But not one for the record books.

Stopped while driving a County Car - what's the county's policy on alcohol and county vehicle's?

Stopped by a trooper that can't see other cars and turns in front them causing an accident - Obviously it was the high beam lights that got her attention.

Refused to take alcohol field tests - Due to the fact his Officer status comes from the 70's, this was appropriate. We all know he rights his own books. So his cop book will show a refusal of those tests is just a proven fact he wasn't intoxicated.

Not taken to jail, not booked by his subordinates - Those State Troopers don't give anybody a break. May this be another 'good 'ol boy' tactic?

Internal Investigation - Now that's a laugh in any small town or community. Why not an investigation by CBI, the Police Officers Standards and Training (POST) Board, or other outside agency? And if one is completed, what makes anybody think it should be public record. When has any personnel document been public record. I don't see anyone posting their own job review document on this forum.

There's more.

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TwinsViewer 6 years, 7 months ago

He was drugged by what was in the building - OH PLEASE! - How many other people were picked up from the party? Oh, I'm sorry, they were just targeting him, that's right.

Mr. Wall was targeted by the CSP as a result of a "tip" phoned in by a disgruntled (fired) former RCSO employee attending the dinner - Where's the phone call? Back to the public record thing. These are public but apparently were not requested.

Wall has ties to PIs, and some of them might be able to turn up information that the CBI would never even think to look for. CBI agents still eat if they don't find the crooks. PIs don't eat unless they get results. - So call the PI's for your next issue and don't bother the officers since the cops are just waiting for their paychecks to arrive.

So says Wikipedia - Oh yes, forgot that educated tool was the best source for correct information.

** Note to self - Make a request that PI's do the Internal Investigation using Widipedia data. It will be complete and precise.

By the way, when was the last time a Routt County officer actually fired a weapon while responding to a call? - When was the last time an officer had to shoot an injured deer/elk/dog. What do you think they use? Read the paper once a week and you'lll have your answer.

The field test is inaccurate. A "real" test needs to be done at the hospital to get definitive results. I believe that the CSP knew they didn't have a case against Wall and that a "real" test would have proven him innocent. The CSP should have taken him to the Routt County Jail, and booked him, and gotten the BAC test, - Hmmmm. What does the B stand for? Breath or Blood? - And just a note here. If you ever get stopped after quickly downing a few drinks, go for the breath test. The doctors really have a good laugh when you opt for the blood test since your blood alcohol content has time to go up by the time they draw the test. I'm sure that needn't be said since some of you are so wikipedia educated.

I've hit a quite a few points and could go on, but why. It's kind of like making a very basic DUI traffic stop into a big (piss) ant hill by stopping a public figure in a public vehicle and talking with the 200 people that saw him at a party but only 16 will say he had one drink. (By the way, why hasn't the DUI arrests before and after Walls been investigated right down to the bar servers and patrons?)

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dogd 6 years, 7 months ago

ID:

I'm beginning to think that if you had won each and every one of your civil cases around here, you would still find a way to be a long-winded, wounded, grumpy and indignant victim.

Your elegant (not) attempt to be an imaginary witness in support of the pathetic Gary Wall is getting tiresome. Your transfer is showing.

Last thing we need is somebody to provide aid, comfort, and support for his dishonorable behavior.

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dundalk 6 years, 7 months ago

Id:

You may have your experience of the military, and that I shall not touch as I hold the deepest of respect for those who serve our country...That being said though, a few drinks makes you more relaxed, as it relates to a gun? Come on...That statement, from a man of your obvious intelligence, insults you, and quite frankly even the readers here.

After living in Los Angeles, and spending time down at the L.A. County Coroner's office, not to mention seeing first hand "relaxed" gun handlers, the notion that booze, even a few wines or a few slams of the old whiskey bottle, stretches the limits of reasonable thinking.

How do you think all those "relaxed" hunters in the United States accidentally shoot themselves, their kids and some poor old dog that just happened to look like a giant 12 foot elk?

Someone here posted what I find to be the most credible of posts thus far...that Wall admitted to having a drink at the Sydney Peak party...the drugging scenario can't enter the argument because Wall flatly refused to take the sobriety test. If I knew I was sober, (having had NO ALCOHOL) and was pulled over by a law enforcement officer, knowing I had NOTHING to hide, you better believe that I'd be out of the car faster than you can say, "Ready Aim & Shoot".

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424now 6 years, 7 months ago

Or they were simply nervous when in the course of performing their duties they inadvertently pull the Sheriff over and he's DUI.

Give me a break. Do you see those veins appearing on and around his nose? Notice the red flush to his face in that older photo? Ask any Cop or alcoholic those are signs of a heavy habitual drinker. He is manipulating the law as only a lawyer or police official would know how. Anything to save his hide and his permanently damaged carreer.

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contrarian 6 years, 7 months ago

id: Just by a roll of the dice someday you may actually get something right you post here. But as always to date, you're wrong. You write: "...they have to take you to town for a blood test (Blood Alcohol Content) to make a legal case for DUI, DWAI, etc. There are procedures to be followed, and the CSP didn't do it that night, and that's what has puzzled me this whole time."

You're 100% wrong.

In CO, as in most states, you can be convicted of drunk driving (DUI) based solely on the observations of a police officer. That is the situation and charge Wall is facing. id, you should stick to your personal conspiracy stories that you never give enough information for anyone to verify. Cause every time you venture into your other blather that can be checked, you're consistently wrong. That would be fine in most cases, but giving out incorrect legal opinions on this site may result in someone getting in serious trouble following your nonsense.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Contrarian,

If you had taken the trouble to read my posts instead of knee-jerking like everyone else, you'd find that I said they should have taken him into custody and to town for a BAC test to support the WEAPONS CHARGE.

"Can be convicted on police officer's testimony," is certainly true. I refer you to the Ramparts Scandal in Los Angeles, where LE testimony and planted evidence resulted in the conviction of many innocent people.

So tell me, Grasshopper, how often is a person represented by an attorney at a jury trial convicted SOLELY on the testimony of a police officer? Let's add to that the condition that the person was not arrested at the scene, was not taken to a nearby facility certified to take blood for DOT investigations following crashes of trucks enaged in interstate commerce, and was released before chemical evidence of a crime was obtained when it was 100% reasonable and practical to do so. Maybe Wall was drunk that night, but if so, the CSP f#####-up so hugely by not following through that they are either poorly trained, poorly led, or had some other good reason not to have a blood test admitted as evidence in this case.

So here's some legal advice for you. Just don't drink anything at all before driving. If you are ever pulled over and charged with DUI, make sure you submit to the BAC test, and get a blood test and a lawyer, in that order.

I think the implied consent law is a good thing, and I wish Wall had agreed to testing. Since he didn't, the CSP should have done a better job, and spared us all this drama. And, as pointed out by someone else, remember that the trooper involved in the case has had her own problems in the past, including an at-fault accident in a state vehicle. Why should anyone trust her to be telling the truth when her own career is on the line?

I think this whole incident should tell everyone not involved in law-enforcement just how DUMB a lot of the people in law-enforcement are. The best bet is stay clear of them, or if you can't avoid it, be courteous, humble and apologetic so that you don't pi$$ them off and tempt them to frame you for something worse.

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contrarian 6 years, 7 months ago

Nice try id. You also said: "The thing is, if Wall was really DUI, they don't have the evidence to prove it other than opinions by CSP cops who, last time I heard, didn't have the ability to determine a driver's BAC by smelling a passenger's breath."

You're nothing more than a bitter, cop-hater who thinks everybody did you wrong. As to the rest of your last post--not worth abswering as it is again nothing more than a demonstration that you know nothing of what you speak. I suspect most readers here alrady know that.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

contra,

You are using the typical lawyer and dirty cop tactic of denying anything that might go against you.

I'm just one of those naive upstanding citizens who never did anything more than slip up and drive 10 mph over the speed limit when the radar was running, and pay my fines for it. I always thought cops were there to help us. No, most of them are not, at least not the ones I've had to deal with.

Most. Not all by any means. Some cops are great, and they deserve credit for doing a dirty job well. The ones I've run into around here up until a year ago because I needed the help of law enforcement agencies have been pretty much a bunch of dumb-ass leeches on the public payroll. OH, and when I do describe the crimes to people, they say, "well, that's hard to prove," or, "the cops can't be everywhere." Both of those are true statements when they (1) don't investigate and (2) don't leave the office.

If you're not speeding or bleeding around here, the cops don't care. P E R I O D.

And Dundalk, the term is "nystagmus." I didn't pass it either when I was stopped, and I was legal. Failure of the nystagmus test can be due to over the counter medications which are not enough for DWAI to come in, and also, from neurological and visual conditions affecting the cranial nerves, inner ear, cervical vertebrae, etc. That's why it's only a screening test, and not conclusive. So, I was able to do the old "stand on one foot," thing, say the alphabet backwards PHONETICALLY (zulu, yankee, xray, whiskey . . . etc.), walk a line heel to toe, and pass all those other tests in addition to blowing under the .05 limit. I freely admit that I was stupid to be driving at that point, but at the same time, I had waited the recommended time and guess what, I was legal. And that was the last time I ever had anything to drink before driving, more than ten years ago.

I'll stand on my opinion that, if Wall had appeared drunk at the dinner, somebody would have stopped him from driving. Something else happened, and we don't know what, because the CSP didn't take the trouble to arrest him on the weapons charge and have the BAC test administered by a DOT qualified person at the hospital, which was nearby and available.

Remember, this is the same CSP crew that let a man escape from the hospital a few months ago.

I don't hate cops. I hate people who don't do their effing duty for the public that pays their salary. If the shoe fits, there's an idiot standing in it, and they need to do something else for a living -- like work for FEDEX, if they can qualify.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Dundalk, you are right. Dauoda has done more despite adversity than most of the local losers will do in a lifetime. It's just easier to slide along, complain about the cost of housing and insist on working a wage-earner job in a resort town than to actually do something to get ahead in life.

I would only say, Dunny, that if the hard-working honest men and women of law enforcement would (1) obey the laws (including the ones about speeding) and (2) hold their peers to an equally high standard, NOBODY would have anything to complain about.

Do a Google search on the string (in quotes) "police officer was arrested" and browse through the 19,700 hits for a while. In contrast, do the same search substituting "EMT" for "police officer" and it drops to 145. Firemen, fire fighters and firefighters total just around 5000 or a bit more. Now assume that only 1 in 10 who commit crimes are arrested, and it's a very dirty picture. I'm not making stuff up; you just don't want to hear it.

Contra,

Uh, that "refusal" thing is all about driving. It doesn't apply to the alleged "weapons charge."

A police officer does not need a search warrant, arrest warrant, or any other authorization to arrest a person and obtain relevant evidence when the officer witnesses the crime. The CSP officers claim they observed Wall in an intoxicated state, carrying a weapon. Do you honestly believe that a person can duck a criminal conviction simply by refusing to give a blood sample after being arrested for possessing a weapon while intoxicated? When police arrest a person, they are allowed to perform a "full search" of the person's body. This is called a "search incident to arrest," and the only requirement is a spatial relationship between the person and the area searched (meaning if the person can reach it, you can search it). "Exigent circumstances" can justify a warrantless search if it is necessary to prevent the destruction of evidence, and I think that any reasonable person would have to agree that waiting until somebody sobers up while trying to get a search warrant to discover blood alcohol content would constitute an "exigent circumstance."

I think it's quite apparent that the CSP officers KNEW they did not have probable cause to conduct a search. If the conditions described in the police report were true, then the CSP had plenty of probable cause and exigent circumstances to take Wall in for a blood test. The worst that would have come of it would have been a challenge to the evidence resulting in its exclusion.

Or, he really is guilty, and they blew it by not obtaining evidence that would have sealed the case.

Either way, the CSP had the bird in their hands and let it go, and now we have all this "he said, she said," crap to deal with. Maybe some POST refresher training would be in order.

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424now 6 years, 7 months ago

Id,

We are not talking about someone who chooses to through their own indulgence to befuddle their own mind with the use of perfectly legal intoxicants, we are however directly focused on someone's choice to get behind the wheel after becoming intoxicated.

and

How many of us boomers do you think will actually retire at 65. I for one do not intend to spend me golden years sitting on an ever expanding duff.

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contrarian 6 years, 7 months ago

id: Given your expertise, and given that you state with authority: "Something else happened, and we don't know what, because the CSP didn't take the trouble to arrest him on the weapons charge and have the BAC test administered by a DOT qualified person at the hospital, which was nearby and available...", can you cite the applicable Colorado law that would have authorized a police officer to forcibly take a blood sample from Wall given that he refused, as is his and everyone else's legal right, to voluntarily supply a breath or blood test?

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dundalk 6 years, 7 months ago

Id:

WHen I get old and feeble, I want to be just like you. I want to spend my time learning to say my ABCs, phoenetically, backwards. I want to spin the master of all spins and slam the hard working, honest men and women of law enforcement and I want to make outlandish statements about target accuracy, loaded firearms and alcohol.

NOT! But how about posting something nice and positive about Dauoda, the west african gentleman who really knows what its like to work hard!

God, its good to be back in Steamboat.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

ColoNative,

The weapons charge has nothing to do with vehicular infractions.

If the CSP picked up a hitchiker who was drunk and carrying a weapon, they would certainly have a right to obtain evidence of intoxication to support the weapons charge. Same thing for a passenger in the vehicle who was intoxicated and toting an iron.

Bandmama,

You miss the point. It was the CSP that decided to make the stop. Once they did it, it was their duty to carry out the proper procedures. If a passenger in the car had been intoxicated and in possession of a weapon, they would have had a responsibility to arrest the person and obtain evidence to support the charges.

Uh, "kids being kids" around my homestead in violation of state law (unlicensed vehicles on county-owned roads) includes anyone, including parents, who insist on tearing around on unpaved roads, making noise and raising dust, for hours on end, in an established neighborhood. If they had the common f#####g sense to ride them away from where the houses are, NOBODY WOULD COMPLAIN. You must be one of those parents who allows your kids to be a nuisance to everyone else while you keep track of them by the sound of throttles being revved on the other side of the valley. How about if I come park in your driveway and play my radio real loud while running engine diagnostics for a couple of hours? Or, maybe just stopping by every fifteen minutes from 6 AM to 10 AM on Sunday to rev the Harley outside your bedroom window would do it. Oh, and maybe spraying red dust into the air outside your living room window would be okay too?

Gee, I don't know, Mama, maybe seeing a tiny kid driving an adult 4-wheeler at high speed seems like a good idea to you, but I think I'd call it "child endangerment" after the kid skids on the washboard road (which he helped create with the 4-wheeler), hits the YVEA transformer and flies over the handlebars onto his head.

You, of course, would go place a Teddy Bear next to the impromptu memorial set up around the transformer and give your support to the family during their tragic mourning period . . . .

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ColoNative 6 years, 7 months ago

id: Under the DUI Expressed Consent laws, an arrestee has a statutory right to refuse to provide a sample of his/her blood or breath. Such refusal is then used in an administrative license revocation hearing. In certain specified DUI cases that involved charges under the criminal code (as opposed to the traffic code), an involuntary blood sample can only be drawn in a Criminal Negligent Homicide, a Vehicular Homicide, and a Vehicular Assault case. The state troopers did their job well and did not try to get a blood test when they did not have the authority. Wall had already refused roadsides and tests..............!

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bandmama 6 years, 7 months ago

please review all previous mama posts. available ONLINE.....(except for those that Rob had deleted......) bad judgement.. CHP did their job. Unofficial poll!!!!!!...who has been pulled over for: failure to dim lights broken/not working brake or tailights... weaving tossing a piece of something out the window driving to fast or to slow...AT NIGHT...... come on, if ANY Highway Patrol did NOT enforce or investigate some, if not all of these failings..... id or someone would complain about THAT.....I believe, though never went to THAT school, that that is what they are trained to watch for.... and, id, you never responded, do you hate all children being children and small puppies, or just those being kids around your homestead? just where is that adorable sense of justice and humour????????

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Airtime,

The padded cells are where people are put to sober up before being taken back to the regular cells. I don't know what the regular cells look like; never been there.

By the way, people detained in the jail pay their own costs of incarceration. Some don't have the ability to pay, however, most of the ones in our jail do, including Sheriff Wall if he had been taken there. People who get out on work release during the day and report back at night certainly do pay the costs of their food and shelter while incarcerated.

You are right about the "general public" comment; gotta have a reason to be there that fits with one of the categories you mention.

Native,

A test certainly can be compelled, but the evidence might be excluded unless a warrant is obtained or one of the other exigent conditions provided justification. The whole issue hinges on "probable cause" to conduct the "search" to "obtain evidence which would otherwise be destroyed." Now, Colorado cops might have been taught otherwise, but that would be policy -- not law.

Please check the following case: No. 02SA263, People v. Schall Probable Cause Blood Alcohol Test Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol Suppression of Evidence. The CO Supreme Court found in this case that the CSP had probable cause to obtain a blood sample due to exigent circumstances and the defendant's actions which indicated intoxication before the blood was obtained. Here's the link:

http://www.courts.state.co.us/supct/opinions/2002/02SA263.doc

Unless someone can find a subsequent ruling which overturned this Opinon (CO Sup. Court overturning its own decision, or U. S. Supreme Court reversing it), I believe this would be the governing case law in Colorado, and the CSP should certainly have been aware of what to do in such a situation. I suggest that the LACK of compelling Wall to take a blood test would indicate that the CSP officers either knew they did not have probable cause to arrest him for charges related to intoxication, or that the blood test would prove he was doped. Take your pick. Either way, the CSP actions that night do NOT support the testimony given by the officers. The more we look into the law surrounding this case, and examine the actions of the CSP officers, the more it looks like Wall was railroaded, or, that the CSP officers acted incompetently.

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Airtime 6 years, 7 months ago

You do the crime, you do the time. I think its reasonable to assume when you get arrested you go to jail especially if there is a gun involved and you have a little bit of booze on board. And who wouldn't want to see the SHERIFF in his own jail. Sounds like an episode with Barney Fife.

In all reality, wouldn't it be a danger for the top law enforcement person to be placed in his own jail. There are obviously people in jail that would enjoy a midnight blanket party on such a person.

There are custodial arrests and non-custodial arrests. Officers use descretion on a daily basis. People caught driving with out a driver's license for example and no insurance. How many of us have been affected by being in an accident when some loser doesn't have a driver's license nor insurance and you get a stuck with the bill. Serious I'd say.

With that does a person need to go to jail? Majority of the time, the person is issued a summons. These offenses are misdemeanors consistent to what the sheriffs got busted for. In big cities, to avoid overcrowding and having a jail turn into a drunk tank people are often taken to detox centers. Not an option here as the detox is the jail. Next option - turn the intoxicated person over to a responsible party so the person doesn't turn around and go drive after they are arrested. It seems that everyone believes the Sheriff got off. He has a court date and IF it every comes or they continue to put it off for another couple years until his term ends he will have to face the judge. Note to Sheriff take a plea. What a disgrace.

If cops were to arrest everyone for everything we'd have a jail full of those felony four wheeler racers, people with dogs running at large and other high priority calls. It appears the CSP did not go out of the norm by not arresting the Sheriff, this is a common practice by only issueing a summons which is a non-custodial arrest. Cant wait for this to be DONE!!!!!!!!

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Airtime,

I have been in the "reception area" of the jail many times to deal with clients. There are a couple of padded holding cells where people are placed to sober up, wait to be bailed out, etc. There are detention deputies on duty there, and people with a need to come inside to see prisoners are allowed into this area. There are tables, chairs, etc. Sheriff Wall would have been placed in this area, or in one of the holding cells, and would not have had to worry about going in with the general population (none of whom are violent anyway, compared to other places). It would have been a very easy thing to take him there, arrange to post bond, and be released with no danger to him or anyone else.

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bandmama 6 years, 7 months ago

id- also, has the enourmous increase in gas prices helped at all? and just curious, just how many of the brats have eaten it at your place? I really dont remember to many accidents as you decribed. And, no my kid has been taught to respect others. Now my husband on the other hand............ Quite honestly, I think it is very considerate that the noise stops by 10 am. Leaves the whole afternoon for other mayhem.

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ColoNative 6 years, 7 months ago

id: you said "If the CSP picked up a hitchiker who was drunk and carrying a weapon, they would certainly have a right to obtain evidence of intoxication to support the weapons charge. Same thing for a passenger in the vehicle who was intoxicated and toting an iron."

the police do not have the authority to force a person to take a blood test for this crime (carrying a gun). The test can be only given if consented to.

the officer has to, in lieu of the blood test, look for other evidence such as observations, smell, actions of the suspect, etc.

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

A DA in Colorado Springs was caught on tape drinking three 20-ounce beers and a 10-ounce beer during "work hours" over the course of less than two hours at a downtown Colorado Springs bar, he proceeded to drive away in a county vehicle. THINK maybe Wall could use some legal help from someone that can sympathize with his predicament? Wonder if the DA tries to get out of it by claiming the news crew had no right to film him just as Wall says the State Patrol had no right to stop him. It's turning into a bad time for drunken politicians.

Hey id, think maybe all the criminals got together and forced the beer down the DA's throat in a conspiracy to get even for being convicted?

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Airtime 6 years, 7 months ago

id04sp,

Are you suggesting selective treatment for the top dog in a padded cell? Or are you saying the padded cell is a place that drunks go? The purpose for bond is to make sure the defendant does not leave the country.... Wall obviously has employment in the county and unfortunately has not left yet. Maybe he should make a get away with the qualified driving skills of his second down; maybe he could make it to Utah. A summons is classified as an arrest. Wall was issued a summons and therefore arrested. Just because he wasn't taken to jail, CSP is wrong. Yea your right! We are paying for someone's legal fees for a DUI, we might as well pay for the top dog's food and lodging. The jail serves 3 squares a day.

?????? the only need for a person to come into the jail " the reception area" would be for attorney clients issues (usually bankers hours), bonds persons (all hours), clergy (scheduled days) or medical/EMS (who knows when). The general public does not go into the "reception areas" they usually have to kick it in the lobby and talk on a phone through a divider.

Re: no one violent what about the dude that nearly killed his wife from South Routt? That sounds violent?

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ColoNative 6 years, 7 months ago

id: Again, (like I said before) "In certain specified DUI cases that involved charges under the criminal code (as opposed to the traffic code), an involuntary blood sample can only be drawn in a Criminal Negligent Homicide, a Vehicular Homicide, and a Vehicular Assault case since your supreme court link showed that was a case of a traffic accident and a death, which Wall's case was not. The supreme court ruling showed nothing that I did not state prior. If the troopers had taken a blood test without consent, the evidence would have been suppressed and they would also have opened themselves up a a civil suit since the procedure is an invasive one, no different that an illegal cavity search of a prisoner. This is not a local policy but is the state law.

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shadow 6 years, 7 months ago

He'll be acquitted, no test = no conclusive evidence. Troopers word against a sheriffs word.

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BoatMaster 6 years, 7 months ago

Bandmama

I have always thought id04sp was Wall.

Does the name id04sp mean something in id=? 04=2004 SP=Steamboat Police. When did Wall start as Sheriff, 2004?

Interesting.....

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Steamboatmom1 6 years, 7 months ago

Word against word. And just because he's the sherriff he can get buy with any crime he wants too. How does this look for our youth. Here kids just become someone in power and you too can do whatever you want. Break the law and not have to be responsible for your actions. Do we not teach our children to respect authority. How can we continue to teach our children this when they think they can be as crooked as they want and get buy with it. I hope justice is served in order to set an example for others.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Mama,

And YOU must be one of those bank tellers. You GO girl! We'll own this town before it's over.

^5.

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bandmama 6 years, 7 months ago

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!! JUST HIT ME, ID IS WALL!!!!!!! who else would stand by such ridiculas thoughts and hate kids being kids AND the small puppy issue (which was never addressed.......) OF COURSE, it would be an all out 'go get-em......" MY SINCERE SORRIES...of course you do so deserve a fair trial, ALLLLLL of your arguemnets should henceforth be ignored!!!!! lets just look at the facts that have been made public....... 1) You failed to dim your light to oncoming traffic on HWY 40..... 2) you had at LEAST one glass (size of glass to be determined) at a public affair in front of wittnesses who are willing to put thier names on the line for you........... of wine. 3) the officer (who so was in on the scheme, "wink wink") who stopped you determined that something was amiss...... 4) you refused a roadside beathe test....(which would have put the rest of us common folk at some point in the back of a cruiser.................)(ahhh another officer at the scene) 5) then you were determined by a secondary officer to be...just a TAD bit unfit to drive and blamed your girlie friend for the smells coming from the car,,,,(gee what a gal to assume responsibility... she IS a keeper!!!) 6) then had a public servant...ie: DEPUTY ELDRIGE...give Y'ALL a ride home..... 7) THEN had the nerve to call it WRONG" Id-you slick old dog you!!!!!!! no wonder we didn't understand your points, you MUST be the law, so sorry we didn't understand before!!!!! (OH YEAH, you were strapping a gun......but the statements that a drink, made you a better shot..."wink wink" made it OK...) I really am so sorry for ever doubting the validity of your innocence.....

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justathought 6 years, 7 months ago

Boat, you have a point but I always believed it had to be his ride along boozing honey (now fiancee). Seems to me that would be the only way someone could so blindly and vehemently defend a drunk, to be in love with him. On second thought, a mother might, so I guess it could be a few people. That said, I must be the other bank teller along with bandmama (just saving id the typing).

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 7 months ago

No, ID has explained is handle just a couple of weeks ago or so:

ID is Identification 04 is #4 SP is Steamboat Pilot

He's also stated he has his next handle (id05sp, I believe) ready to go in case of getting banned. Whether or not it's Wall, I highly doubt it. Unless he's lying, ID doesn't truly live here any longer...he just has "interests" in the Valley, whatever that means.

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oldskoolstmbt 6 years, 7 months ago

wow..alot has happened in a few days ID- sorry, back to the alcohol (the night before) and accuracy when shooting the next morning...how does a couple drinks ten hours before you shoot (or do anything) have an effect on your heart rate or relaxation?

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

MasterBoater,

id04sp means "identification number 04 steamboat pilot," and that's all.

I'm not Gary Wall. If I was, there would be some state employees in jail for tampering with evidence.

I'm only defending Wall because there are plausible reasons to doubt what happened back in October, and because there are people around here who appear to hate him enough to frame him. Oh, and why would I think someone framed him? Because I know what kinds of things some of the cops do around here, and what kinds of things they have ignored in the past, and if I was a dirty cop or a dirty anything else involved in the local justice system, I'd be scared to death of him.

We all know that he fired most of his staff when he took office. Instead of getting worse, things have gotten better. What does that tell you?

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Benny 6 years, 7 months ago

ID: Corrent me if I'm wrong, but didn't you used to be Woxoff on the old website? I'm pretty sure Wall has participated on this forum before under his true name during the campaign and his grammer skills are much different than yours.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

oldschool,

The two biggest detractors from shooting accuracy for a COMPETENT sharpshooter are the heart rate and respiration rate. Doctors recommend a glass of wine to help calm the nerves of heart patients because it does have a long-lasting benefit in terms of relaxation in addition to making blood more "slippery" and less likely to clot.

My data comes from a U. S. Army officer who was a shooting instructor. They had conducted experiments using sharpshooters (to help train snipers, in the long run) to determine ways to reduce heart rate and respiration rates. I can't give you the biochemistry, but statistically, there was a measured improvement for MODERATE alcohol intake the night before. Maybe it's because they got more sleep. Who knows?

When you line up on a target, you can see the foresight bump up and down every time your heart beats. Taking a deep breath and letting it out actually slows the heart rate and gives more time between "jumps" to squeeze off the round. The slower your basic respiration rate and resting heart rate are, the better sharpshooter you will be. Even better if you are more relaxed. Even better if you are in good shape and can get your resting heat rate down to 50 like mine was when I was "in the business."

The most fun of all was when I used the same technique on the doctors during my annual physical exams. I'd relax and exhale just as they tried to listen to my heart, and I always enjoyed the puzzled look in their eyes while they waited more than a second between heartbeats .

Kielbasa,

According to YVEA, the Water and Sanitation folks, Qwest and Ferrell Gas, SOMEBODY must be living in my house. Oh, yeah, that would be ME.

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

Benny,

I'm "Gary White." You must be talking about "Gary Black."

(Go watch "The Three Faces of Eve" if you don't understand that one).

Actually, you caught me. I'm twins. My sister and I both use the same ID and collaborate on who posts to which threads. We're getting a portion of the "click through" revenue from the ads with links from these pages.

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ColoNative 6 years, 7 months ago

Id: again, to quote you, "I would only say, Dunny, that if the hard-working honest men and women of law enforcement would (1) obey the laws (including the ones about speeding) and (2) hold their peers to an equally high standard, NOBODY would have anything to complain about. Do a Google search on the string (in quotes) "police officer was arrested" and browse through the 19,700 hits for a while. In contrast, do the same search substituting "EMT" for "police officer" and it drops to 145. Firemen, fire fighters and firefighters total just around 5000 or a bit more. Now assume that only 1 in 10 who commit crimes are arrested, and it's a very dirty picture. I'm not making stuff up; you just don't want to hear it."

Well, I checked Google as you said and found the following; "police officer was arrested" 19,900 results "firefighter was arrested: - 6,840 results "emt was arrested" 202 results "judge was arrested" 526 results "attorney was arrested" 35,600 results "sheriff was arrested" 11,500 results "illegal alien was arrested" 660 results "nurse was arrested" 12,900 results "asian was arrested" 8 results "deputy was arrested" - 669 results "doctor was arrested" 20,800 results

Using Google again, I found that there are about 740,000 police officers in the country, that there are about 1,143,358 attorneys in the country, and 701,200 (1996 stats) doctors in the country. I found that there are over 2.3 million nurses here also.

Seems to me that how you phrase the search has a lot to do with it, in addition to how the article is written. I know that more than 8 asians were arrested and more than 660 illegal aliens were arrested. So, it seems to me that your so-called research if flawed. You want to dog on law enforcement and the bad job they do but leave out the judges, attorneys, nurses, and doctors. You say 'only one in ten" are arrested. What's your basis for this percentage? Have you ever been a cop or are you just blowing smoke? What's up:..? You seem to have a very one-sided vendetta and are not being fair with the statistics (which should not be taken from Google or the internet anyway since the figures are not accurate) You are talking conspiracy theories about Wall with the chloral hydrate and him being drugged without his knowledge. Chloral hydrate is for insomnia or sedative and has also been used by perverts as a date rape drug but has lost out to faster and less detectable drugs now available outside the U.S. So, if it was a date rape drug, does that mean that somebody was trying to sexually assault Wall and he barely got out of there in time to preserve his virtue and had the bad luck to get stopped by the trooper::?

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id04sp 6 years, 7 months ago

ColoNative,

There are more Google hits on police officers because the stories make the paper. The ones never caught never get stories written about them.

And, your little chloral hydrate rant shows a distinct lack of grasp of the obvious. CH has a delayed action, which means that you're fine until 15 to 20 minutes later -- just enough time to drive away and get stopped by the CSP. Faster acting would not be an advantage in this scenario. And, as for the "less detectable" comment, you are RIGHT AGAIN! The fact that CH is easily detectable would be a reason for the CSP officers not to compel a blood test; the test would have proved he was doped if CH showed up.

I posted this info on another thread, but it bears repeating here. Judge Shelly Hill ordered ACET to return confiscated marijuana to a medical marijuana user over in Craig who admitted to "having too much" and selling it to others, so, that was TRAFFICKING. If ACET returns it, under federal law, that act will also be TRAFFICKING in violation of the Controlled Substances Act. Judge Hill is also guilty of a "color of law" violation by ordering ACET to return marijuana to a person in violation of the Controlled Substances Act. I am curious to see if Mr. Wiggins has the integrity to PROVE he deserves to be the Sheriff of Routt County by defying Judge Hill's unlawful order.

Should be interesting, eh? If he does it, I'll get behind him and push (including $$) to get him elected the next time he has a chance to run against Gary Wall. If he does what the judge orders, then he's just another sell-out to a corrupt system, and we were right to deny him the Sheriff's office.

Oh, and check with your lawyer first, Mr. Wiggins, but if she holds you in contempt, you must remove the case to federal court as the defendant, and it must be on grounds that the judge's order has a federal cause of action (the Controlled Substances Act) at its root. This got Judge Garrecht's unlawful contempt charge against the DEA agents thrown out of court, and it will work for you too -- if you've got the guts to do it.

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oldskoolstmbt 6 years, 7 months ago

aaaand.....if, if's and but's were candy and nuts, we would all have a better christmas..

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