Project aims to verify carbon offsets

Tim Winter, Routt County's building and plant director, talks about the solar panels installed on the new Routt County Justice Center.

By Mike Lawrence

Sunday, April 13, 2008

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Solar

Tim Winter, Routt County's building and plant director, talks about the solar panels on the new Routt County Justice Center.

On the 'Net

Learn more about the Colorado Carbon Fund on the Web at

http://www.colorado.gov/energy/resources/ColoradoCarbonFund.asp

Learn more about carbon offsets at www.carboncounter...>

View a state-by-state database of state incentives for renewable energy use and energy efficiency at

www.dsireusa.org/

Steamboat Springs — Steamboat Springs is one of eight potential pilot communities for a state program to certify and sell carbon offsets, or reductions of greenhouse gas emissions to counter pollution created elsewhere.

Susan Innis of the Governor's Energy Office is program manager for the Colorado Carbon Fund, which she said would be "the first statewide voluntary carbon offset program in the country." The program would implement standards, audits and a certification process for a budding industry that Innis said can sometimes leave consumers guessing about the value of their purchase.

"There's no sort of government regulation of carbon offset products - that's one of the reasons the GEO is getting involved," she said. "We want to make sure Colorado consumers have a project available so they know where their money is going. : In some cases, you might not know exactly how your money is being spent or what the environmental impacts are."

Offsets and renewable energy credits, or RECs, often are sold to buyers seeking to mitigate the environmental impact of their business or home - for example, the Steamboat Ski Area purchases RECs for facilities including the Sunshine Express and Burgess Creek chairlifts, then promotes the resort's commitment to renewable energy.

Xcel Energy purchases RECs - including from Routt County, for solar power generated on the roof of the Routt County Justice Center - to meet state requirements created by Amendment 37, a renewable energy initiative passed by voters in 2004 and upgraded by the state Legislature in 2007.

Xcel spokeswoman Ethnie Groves said RECs purchased by Xcel are tied to metered power production.

"We know that energy being produced is being sent to our system, and we track that and evaluate it through our renewable energy system internally," she said Friday.

But Steamboat Ski and Resort Corp. President Chris Diamond acknowledged last summer that the ski area's REC purchases were "a little bogus" because "the measuring protocol wasn't in place." In other words, when a business or homeowner purchases a certain amount of renewable energy production to compensate for their carbon emissions, it is sometimes hard to verify the production allocated solely to the buyer.

Innis said one intent of the Colorado Carbon Fund is to increase consumer confidence by instilling verification practices, likely through a third party.

"It's a lot like a financial audit," she said. "They would issue a certification for our program if it meets all those standards. : We're going to sell carbon offsets to individuals, businesses and institutions who want to mitigate their greenhouse gas emissions."

Local interest

Innis said Aspen is the Colorado Carbon Fund's first community partner and already is selling state-approved carbon offsets through its wide-ranging Canary Initiative.

Innis said other community partners could include Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Telluride, Durango, Eagle Valley and Steamboat. She recently met with Steamboat Springs and Routt County officials to discuss local energy efficiency and renewable energy initiatives.

"There is a lot of interest in developing resources to promote renewable energy in the Yampa Valley area," she said. "We're looking at how our program could facilitate those local efforts."

Thursday morning, Routt County Manager Tom Sullivan discussed how to increase the county's environmental sustainability efforts, a desire he said arose at a county staff retreat last month.

"One of the goals is to make economic, social and environmental objectives part of county services," Sullivan said to staff members.

The county is looking to increase its energy efficiency through small means such as reducing waste from catered meals and large means such as the 165 solar panels on the roof of the Justice Center. The panels provide about 10 percent of the building's power, building and plant director Tim Winter said. The panels also provide money - Xcel has paid Routt County about $1,600 for its solar power production so far this year.

Innis was careful to distinguish between RECs and carbon offsets.

"RECs are sold in terms of kilowatt hours, (while) carbon offsets are sold in terms of tons or pounds of carbon dioxide and are really meant to offset the pollution that you cause," she said.

Innis said verified, reliable carbon offsets are just one component of the Colorado Carbon Fund.

"I hope that we'll have the program up and running early this summer," she said.

More like this story

weallnutz 5 years, 2 months ago

Scandia labs report that wont be reported on....Diesle engines and large trucks consume less lifetime energy and produce less "Lifetime" carbon emissions than all of the hybrids. What doesn't get taken into account is the production emissions/waste of the plants producing the batteries and chargers, and components of hybrids. Scandia labs say save the planet drive S.U.V's and Large Diesle pickups...try getting the media to report that. No they wont report studies by some of the most intelligent, educated people in the world, but they report every word of every speach from Al Gore on how to save the planet. Follow the money and you'll find his beliefs are truly based on Green....the kind of green with presidents on it.

hubiem 5 years, 2 months ago

this whole renewable energy credits, and carbon offset seem kind of weird and very confusing to me. the story says.

"The panels provide about 10 percent of the building's power, building and plant director Tim Winter said. The panels also provide money - Xcel has paid Routt County about $1,600 for its solar power production so far this year.

if the panels provide 10% of the buildings power, then excel pays routt county $1600 for that power, then essentially they are just selling the solar power that they make to excel energy. if they are selling their solar power, then they are using coal fired power in the building.

is this $1600 for renewable energy credits, or is it for carbon offsets?

lmp3461 5 years, 2 months ago

I bypass svbor's posts completely. they never answer the question at hand and are mostly off topic.

hubiem 5 years, 2 months ago

i can't even start to follow your posts. when you link to your own posts that have multiple other links to so many other web pages in them it becomes almost impossible to read.

i also have to laugh when i see you linking to wikipedia. a lot of college professors won't accept wikipedia as a source in any kind of paper. if you want people to believe your propoganda then stop linking to wikipedia to prove your point.

lets keep it simple. does your last post have anything to do with explaining carbon offsets, or renewable energy credits and how they work? if it does then i will try to find it. if not, i'm not going to bother. i think you are still droning on about the global warming myth, but i'm not going to read all your right wing propoganda to find out.

just forget about global warming for a minute. frankly, i don't see anything wrong with making clean renewable energy. in twenty years when the panels pay for themselves then they will be making free electricity. i just don't understand what carbon offsets, and renewable energy credits are and how they work.

do big companies buy carbon offsets so that they can pollute more, and then say that they support renewable energy?

if xcel energy is buying the power ($1600 worth this year) so that they can put it on the grid and then sell it to someone who wants to buy renewable energy, how do the solar panels produce 10% of the buildings energy needs? it doesn't seem to make sense.

hubiem 5 years, 2 months ago

i think that the whole reason that people don't use wikipedia as an academically acceptable source is that anyone can edit what any entry says. how do you know that someone didn't edit one of the articles that you cited after you posted it here. someone could theoretically edit all the things that you cited to say the exact opposite of what you originally intended. wikipedia is fine for reading about things you want to find out about, but it is not acceptable as a source.

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

sbvor, When you and your wife disagree, do you call her an idiot? When you and your wife have a conversation, do you demand that she answer your questions in the way you demand?

hubiem 5 years, 2 months ago

who is the one trolling here? trolls try to elicit an emotional response from others. so please don't call me an idiot. please quit telling me to address your post that i have no interest in. i didn't come on here asking some questions about the article just to be harassed by you. i don't want to address your post. do you think that everyone here wants to argue with you? i for one don't really know if the earth is warming up or not. i don't know if the earth is cooling or not. also, i don't want to argue with you about it.

i just want to understand how carbon credits work and how renewable energy credits work. if you can answer that clearly and concisely without all of the links to try and prove that global warming isn't happening then feel free. i never once made any mention of global warming, so please stop trying to convince me that global warming isn't happening.

Mike Lawrence 5 years, 2 months ago

Hubiem, Let me try and shed some light. When passed by voters in 2004, Amendment 37 required Xcel and other power providers in Colorado to have 10 percent of their usage come from renewable sources by 2015. In 2007, the Legislature increased that to 20 percent by 2020. Xcel pays Routt County as an incentive for the county's production of solar power. Xcel does not use that power, but can allocate it towards the renewable energy used on Xcel's grid, as a renewable energy credit, to help Xcel meet the requirements of Amendment 37. In other words, Xcel is not paying Routt County for the solar power, but just for the fact that it's produced. Xcel buys most of its renewable energy credits from wind power generators. Carbon offsets work the same way, but include a wider range of energy efficiency practices, such as improving insulation in homes to reduce heating costs, promoting carpooling or biking to work, or even capturing methane from manure on dairy farms and using the methane to generate electricity. Individuals or businesses purchase carbon offsets to counter their own greenhouse gas emissions. Call me anytime if you want to chat about offsets, RECs, or energy efficiency in general. These are topics we will continue to follow, cover, and hopefully explain clearly in our newspaper.

Mike Lawrence city editor (970) 871-4233 mlawrence@steamboatpilot.com

grannyrett 5 years, 2 months ago

Mr_B-Boy, svbor is going to slam you!

Books 5 years, 2 months ago

hubiem

Global Warming Carbon Offsets were created so that Al Gore can buy a carbon offset from a company that he owns, which in turn goes out and plants a bunch of trees, that will in several hundred years consume as much carbon as Al's jet blows out the turbine.

This allows people like Al to continue their lavish lifestyles without interruption or guilt while they run around pretending like they are saving the planet.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=51L6kvaxMBk

grannyrett 5 years, 2 months ago

Hubium: Kind of agrivating to ask a simple question and get a lecture from svbor, isn't it? I too, was wondering how that worked. Thanks for asking. svbor: Some of us don't really give a poop if there is global warming or not. We just want to leave the world a better place for those who come after us. It's kind of like living in a nest that hasn't been cleaned for a long time and wanting to clean it out so our kids will have a better nest to live in.

Mr_B 5 years, 2 months ago

I am buying solar panels to offset the Hummer I just bought. Cool, eh? I feel so good about being a part of the solution to save this planet...

OnTheBusGus 5 years, 2 months ago

I'm all for diesel vehicles. They don't have to be loud and large either. VW has done a good job with the TDI vehicles and they get 50+ miles to the gallon. Subaru is coming out with a 2009 diesel legacy and diesel outback in 2009. In Europe there are many diesel vehicles that never make it to the US because they don't think the demand is here since no one touts the benefits of diesel. It's always hybrid, hybrid! Have you ever seen a Toyota prius hybrid struggling to make it up to the Eisenhower tunnel doing 40 in the far right lane? Ever been passed by a TDI golf, passat or jetta on the same stretch of road? That's what I'm talkin' about!

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

Bush Prepares Global Warming Initiative http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/NATION/676175489/1001

President Bush is poised to change course and announce as early as this week that he wants Congress to pass a bill to combat global warming, and will lay out principles for what that should include.

Specifics of the policy are still being fiercely debated, but Bush administration officials have told Republicans in Congress that they feel pressure to act now because they fear a coming regulatory nightmare. It would be the first time Mr. Bush has called for statutory authority on the subject.

"This is an attempt to move the administration and the party closer to the center on global warming. With these steps, it is hoped that the debate over this is over, and it is time to do something," said an administration source close to the White House who is familiar with the planning and who said to expect an announcement this week.

thecondoguy1 5 years, 2 months ago

by passing sbvor, I think a mistake, tough to dis stuff you have not read, he/she is enlightened, lots of verifiable facts, intelligent arguments, the idea you do not need to fall into that party line trap, think and do for yourself. Also regarding wiki, arguments are well taken, but don't forget those college professors are the same arrogant, establishment intelligencia that are in there editing...............

trump_suit 5 years, 2 months ago

Carbon offsets are a complete waste of time if you truly believe that CO2 is the primary cause of Global warming.

What good does it do for an individual of corporatin to spew unlimited amounts of CO2 into the atmospere on the East coast, and then purchase acres of trees that were already there in the first place and call that an offset?

SilverSpoon 5 years, 2 months ago

REC's are to make renewable energy financing work... The capital investment required to build new sources of energy which aren't currently subsidized(like coal, natural gas, or oil), comes straight from investors 100%. For solar or wind energy to become a profitable venture for capital investors, they want to see a return equal to that of big oil.

REC's are a way to charge the end consumer more for something which actually may be cheaper in the long term(10+years). Digging for fuel has many untracked carbon emmissions, in addtion to burning the fuel. After the panels or turbines are paid for, the only cost is maintenance(which is a clean blue collar job). REC's are a way to increase profits while continuing the business as usual approach to global warming(fortunately for us, above 7000ft the effects are not extremely obvious. But, where have all the -40 degree days gone? We need that agian to kill those beetles)

REC's help keep the perception that renewable energy has to be more expensive than our "clean coal".

jihad 5 years, 2 months ago

If you don't think burning fossil fuels, SO2, NO2, and CO2 are not all causing damage to this planet, then its time for you to find your own. Since the 1930's, the Royal British Meteorological Society has been looking at man v climate change. You can surf the web and find a contrary argument to anything you like but its hard to refute 90% of scientist on this planet. Just check out this article on the visual of CO2 production in the US:

http://www.environmentalleader.com/2008/04/13/new-co2-maps-offer-unprecedented-detail/

SBVOR, is that junk science? There is evidance that man has created a problem that only man can stop. Come on dude, stop be that "guy" who thinks he's smarter than everyone else when its clear you are misguided. Stop killing the messenger and start being part of the solution and not part of the problem. Jeesh

SilverSpoon 5 years, 2 months ago

Skipping sbvor posts saves lots of time. His challenges and posts are heritage.org biased bolony.

Books 5 years, 2 months ago

weallnutz - Great news! Diesel engines reduce greenhouse gas emissions!

This means that, if we lived in Al's world, Mr_B can forget about solar panels and just get a diesel Hummer, then sell the carbon credits to SilverSpoon. - Save the Planet!

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

sbvor, Your dishonesty is breathtaking. You keep citing "peer reviewed science" like you are the sole decider of what that consists of. If you were an honest man, you would state "subjectively selected peer reveiwed science that fits my preconceived political bent." But--best of luck trying to attract a new wife with your nonsense here. I feel for your loneliness that just drips through your posts--particularly your late night trolling for songs on youtube.

SilverSpoon 5 years, 2 months ago

Sbvor, I remember -40, 4 years ago. Once again, old data. Low lands in america have no snow pack. 45 and rainy, where it used to be 30 and snowy in december. In some areas, a white christmas is an old wise tale, a folk lore of the 80's and 90's, for those who can remember back then.

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

sbvor, There you go with your over-inflated ego again. You've demonstrated no scientific ability to review a paper clip much less the issue at hand or the volumes of science (much of it contradictory, besides your attempts to deceive others on this forum) when it comes to the global environment and man's impact thereon. On the other hand, you've demonstrated (to the point others eyes are bleeding and have rightly tuned you out) an ability to cut and paste the work of others that fit your extremely narrow-minded politically driven view of the world. Real scientists have open minds and intellectual curiosity about the world around them. Make believe scientists, like you, have closed minds and no interest in, or openness to, the views of others. Hubiem came on this thread and asked reasonable questions based on the fine reporting of Mike Lawrence. Your response was to call hubiem an idiot and to demand that Lawrence dance to your sick demands that you constantly throw about on this forum. You're a small-minded, sad and pathetic old man who gets off on calling others idiots in some perverted attempt to make-up for your shortcomings and frustrations in life. Good luck with that. I feel sorry for you.

jihad 5 years, 2 months ago

sbHor

Stop spewing your junk science and just tell them to give money to the Heritage Foundation or some Fossil Fuel advocacy group. We have presented you with the FACTS and you ignore them. You are the one who gives science and academia a bad name with your vitriol and misplaced anger. Heck, you give conservatives a bad name with all your labeling.

http://www.climatehotmap.org/

We are in an energy crisis. What are you doing to help? Even if CO2 is not shown to have a measurable impact, wouldn't it be smarter to "go green"? We have hit Peak Oil, Coal is more and more expensive. Support Renewable Energy!

jihad 5 years, 2 months ago

sbhor: Its more like Head Cheese. I can send you links all day too. But the facts are in, humans are changing the climate of the planet. Either we can preserve something for our kids or use it all ourselves. I see which side you are on, but you obviously have plenty of time to sit in your little bubble and throw stones at everyone else. I feel sorry for you:

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/hockeystickFAQ.html#4 http://www.smartpower.org/blog/?p=339 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/13/us/13emissions.html?_r=1&fta=y&oref=slogin http://www.ipcc.ch/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_tags http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Ferlc%2Ecom%2Farticle%2Fpolicy%2Dstatement%2Don%2Dglobal%2Dwarming&key=climate+change&title=Policy+Statement+on+Global+Warming&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

Come on, even the Southern Baptists are more progressive than you?!?!?

jihad 5 years, 2 months ago

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

There's 928 PEER REVIEWED Articles to choose from BE-ATCH. Get a life and stop trying to ruin ours.

SilverSpoon 5 years, 2 months ago

The H1 is a great grocery getter in compton with its bullet proof glass. The H2 is great for soccer practice and starbucks coffee runs. I don't know what the H3 is good for.

Does the hummer have a 30 gallon tank? The trip to denver may cost a benjamin($100) very soon.

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

As usual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribut...

"Attribution of recent climate change is the effort to scientifically ascertain mechanisms responsible for relatively recent changes observed in the Earth's climate. The effort has focused on changes observed during the period of instrumental temperature record, when records are most reliable; particularly on the last 50 years, when human activity has grown fastest and observations of the upper atmosphere have become available. The dominant mechanisms to which recent climate change has been attributed all result from human activity. They are:[1]

increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases global changes to land surface, such as deforestation increasing atmospheric concentrations of aerosols. Recent reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report have concluded that:

"Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."[2] "From new estimates of the combined anthropogenic forcing due to greenhouse gases, aerosols, and land surface changes, it is extremely likely that human activities have exerted a substantial net warming influence on climate since 1750."[1] "It is virtually certain that anthropogenic aerosols produce a net negative radiative forcing (cooling influence) with a greater magnitude in the Northern Hemisphere than in the Southern Hemisphere.[1] The panel, which represents consensus in the scientific community, defines "very likely," "extremely likely," and "virtually certain" as indicating probabilities greater than 90%, 95%, and 99%, respectively.[1]"

Of course, the IPCC is "dishonest" in Borepley's limited mind. If the info is less than a decade old, Bore has a cardio-vasectomy.

SilverSpoon 5 years, 2 months ago

BORE, The -40 example shows some emperical data of how recently our climate has changed, and how drastically. yes it happened in the past 5 years(or at least the most obvious changes). You may not be able to acknowledge that our cold months don't get quite as cold as they used to. But the beetles sure took notice(in steamboat it is caused by the blowdown)(in summit county they try to blame global warming). Earth is a complicated system. A colorado river that dries up before reaching the ocean, and dried up rivers in the mid west, and vanishing aquifers are are examples of man made change. Ever had a river dry up in your back yard? It kind of devestates the local agriculture.

corduroy 5 years, 2 months ago

I have a link for the bore!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsIFspVzfI

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

Yeah! Update that video so it says something really cool & recent...like: "Who's your daddy?"

Now...did we not use this silly "Precautionary Principle" to invading Iraq? (EEEEeeeeek! Moral Equivalence!!! Step on it!!!)

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

Proper thread? When has that ever stopped you from posting your propaganda any/everywhere? LOL! (Yikes! More Moral Equivalence!!! Run!!!)

All it means is that you're spewing the Bush/Cheney Talking Points and have no real...anything...to back it up. Par for the course.

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

As usual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution...

Of course, the IPCC is "dishonest" in Borepley's limited mind. If the info is less than a decade old, Bore has a cardio-vasectomy.

Shredding...Funny!!

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

sbvor:

Two can play your childish games. Notice the similarity between your use of the term pimps and Dr Paul Epley's (of the Conservative Leadership Council of Northwest Colorado) similar use: http://steamboatpilot.com/news/2008/j...

Notice how Paul Epley vanished from the op-ed pages just as you went into over-drive with your rantings.

Coincidence?

As you seem to think Matthew Stoddard (who has always been honest about his identity) should comment about whether he is "Jihad"--perhaps you should do the same.

Actually, given all your demands of others here, let's be direct.

sbvor--are you or are you not Dr. Paul Epley of the Conservative Leadership Council of Northwest Colorado?

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

Thanks Dr. Epley! You just confirmed it for us all.

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

Paul: You're trying to hard. We all know who you are and you've confirmed it once again. What's most telling is that the CLCNC seems to have distanced itself from you. But, that's a common theme in your life.

contrarian 5 years, 2 months ago

You forgot your pocket protector: http://www.strotary.org/issues/html/02-10-29.html

bcpow 5 years, 2 months ago

version of reality Do you have a life away from anonymous posting land? Nice to see that 36 of the 72 posts are yours. Did you get outside in the 60 degree global warming today? Please get a life and don't bother posting about it.

Mr_B 5 years, 2 months ago

Hmmmm. Now my wife wants a Hummer. Screw the solar panels. I'll just buy a tree for the front yard.

I am sure glad we are talking about global warming instead of global cooling. Maybe we can grow tomatoes now.

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

And here I thought the husband always wanted the Hummer. I guess $100 is competitive for a Hummer, too. Might have to ask someone on Colfax, though.

justathought 5 years, 2 months ago

Mr_B, I certainly hope you rethink your position. IF you plant a tree without paying for it through carbon taxes, you are bypassing the middleman (Al Gore), which will affect his ability to pay for the fuel of a private jet and the energy to run his home. Now wouldn't that make you feel bad? What's the next scare tactic, lets see, global implosion... caused by the build up of underground gas and oil in the USA, better get on that Gore, sounds like lots of money to be made.

thecondoguy1 5 years, 2 months ago

SS, the only thing that hums on a H3 is the dashboard,,, see I would not skip sbvor any more than I would skip you......

cord, don't you think the guy in that old "scariest" video should throttle back on the Monster energy drinks, especially now that he is probably on social security????????

raver 5 years, 2 months ago

dude sbvor, how is it that you have time to write all these comments and research all these websites? do you do anything else? do you have a job? how is it that you can speak on all these issues if you just sit infront of a computer all day?

thecondoguy1 5 years, 2 months ago

Don't get all bogged down trying to get up on sbvor with a rash of crap, somehow this thread got off the simple thinking, boondogle, red herring, phoney, carbon off sets topic.......................

Michael Brumbaugh 5 years, 2 months ago

Hey, is anyone at all watching from the SP&T? Or, does removal only happen when Rob Douglas is on the scene? When sbvor tried his bullying ways on Rob's article, he was shut up quickly. I'm just kinda wondering if any of the following count as "ad hominem" attacks? And, if so, why hasn't this person been banned?

I sure would like to come on here every now and then and discuss ideas with an open mind, but it's really impossible when we have to slog through all sbvor's comments and attacks. For the love of Buddha...!

"your idiotic Wikipedia obsession" "are you just another Troll?" "You're a typical Dim!" "Jihad (Appropriate Moniker)" "which I KNOW, Troll that you are" "Anyone who is fool enough to think my views and my terminology are shared only by me must be a Dim."

thecondoguy1 5 years, 2 months ago

whoa there mike, make a contribution, easy to slander the ol sbvor, lots of facts, information, evidence and clear thinking to attack, but that's ok, go for it, in the mean time I would like to read sbvor, right or wrong it is good material that makes you think, that's what it's all about.............. thinking....

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

Well, thecondoguy1...I hope you can read invisible ink! LOL!!

thecondoguy1 5 years, 2 months ago

sure shortened up the discussion, we should silence everybody with facts and information, I hope they don't pop you next, I won't have any good stuff to read on these topics............

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 2 months ago

Facts don't mean squat when you repeat the same thing over and over and over and over. I outted Bore couple weeks ago fully expecting to be banned.

All that will do, as it will in Bore's case, is bring a new handle for the same person. There is no accountability on this forum and anyone banned can come right back with a new handle and say the exact same things all over again.

Plus, "facts" are all in how you interpret them...just like statistics.

playa46 5 years, 2 months ago

Carefull Kielbasa, watch the language, or STMBT PILOT WILL GET YOU TOO. LOL. Anyway, what I have heard is that the polar ice caps will eventually melt due to the lack of a magnetic shield. Then, when the magnetic shield comes back (pointing south) everything will freeze, creating another ice age! YAY! So, pretty much the world has repeated this millions of times, but we are not doing anything to better the situation. That's all folks!

steamboatsconscience 5 years, 2 months ago

Dec 21, 2012 http://www.greatdreams.com/end-world.htm

thecondoguy1 5 years, 2 months ago

sbc, well this is just great, my birthday is December 22, come 2012, I will have one day left, those darn Mayans..............

bcpow 5 years, 2 months ago

Hopefully winter will be early in 2012. I would hate to miss out on some good pow if the world ended. This could really hurt xmas business here in ski town usa.

Michael Brumbaugh 5 years, 2 months ago

Whoa there yourself, "condoguy" (I ain't your dang horse)! Please watch the condescension.

Last time I checked, "thinking" people generally are civil in their discourse, because they think things through before opening their mouths or typing on their keyboards. "Thinking" people don't attack others personally for their thoughts. They may disagree with those ideas and state why, but no need for putdowns. That's why the policies are here on this forum, no?

There was absolutely nothing I said that was "slanderous" about sbvor (please check the definition of the word). I certainly do welcome his thoughts and opinions, as I do anyone who is civil. If you read what I actually said, it's not the content of what he says so much as how he expresses it.

So, that IS my contribution, dude. Wanting a world where folks can listen to each other in a "thoughtful" way, and maybe learn something.

stompk 5 years, 2 months ago

It's great to see solar enter the mainstream. The more we use it, to more, we'll realize the wonderfully quiet and clean power it produces.

Yes, the panels take some energy to make. But they last for 25 yrs or more. And they are made of silicon, which can be found in silica (ie, sand). The process of making pure silica need improving, and where we should be spending research dollars.

But all the carbon yadda yadda in the world isn't going to help up if they don't do something about their jets. Check out this shot I took the other day coming back through Walden. http://i25.tinypic.com/16a7klf.jpg

Either they need to tune that thing up, or we have bigger problems than carbon credits (what a joke that is). Because this is what it is doing to our valley. http://i26.tinypic.com/2chp3yb.jpg

Now you can't tell me that blue haze is wood fire, coal plant or anything else, cause the Walden valley is the same way. I got those pics too if you don't believe me. http://i28.tinypic.com/2rm1urt.jpg

SilverSpoon 5 years, 2 months ago

CO2 is a odarless and colorless gas. What you are seeing is NOx and SOx which are not colorless. The inversion helps trap these pollutants in our valley(pulling the polluted air that the stack shot high into the air back down to our steamboat population). Rule number 1 in enviromental engineering is: dilution is the solution to pollution, Rule #2 is don't put a heavily polluting plant near a dense population, Rule #3, don't put a heavily polluting plant in the mountains where pollution gets trapped and where its concentration can compound until it is windy enough to send it over the divide.

When a jet burns fuel, a hydrocarbon. Its exaust is water vapor and CO2. When you burn 20,000 gallons of fuel in a jet, their is alot of water vapor to trail accross the sky.

nikobesti 5 years, 2 months ago

Awww, where are sbvor's rants? I was very much looking forward to picking up the gauntlet on this one. I find it hard to believe how otherwise intelligent people lose all ability to think logically when it comes to climate change. I believe their strong distain of what they deem "liberal," "socialist," or "environmentalism" fogs their ability to see things clearly. If Al Gore was the first to tell them the world was round, they would claim it's a liberal conspiracy and that it's actually round. All knowledge of the scientific method that has driven humans' search for knowledge for centuries is all of the sudden forgotten, replaced by conspiracy theories that level-headed people would find embarrassing to pose. I wonder if sbvor believes in creationism? It's the same mind set in regards to ignoring the massive body of evidence that the world's scientists have put together on the subject.

nikobesti 5 years, 2 months ago

Just making sure sbvor and other human-influenced climate change deniers have seen the list of scientific organizations concurring with anthropogenic climate change:

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007 Joint science academies' statement 2007 Joint science academies' statement 2005 Joint science academies' statement 2001 InterAcademy Council International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences European Academy of Sciences and Arts Network of African Science Academies National Research Council (US) American Meteorological Society Royal Meteorological Society (UK) World Meteorological Organization American Geophysical Union American Institute of Physics American Astronomical Society American Physical Society Federal Climate Change Science Program (US) American Association for the Advancement of Science Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London American Quaternary Association Geological Society of America American Chemical Society Federation of American Scientists Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia) Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences European Geosciences Union International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics International Union of Geological Sciences International Council for Science European Science Foundation

Hey sbvor, is the Network of African Science Academies part of this global conspiracy? Wow, the "Dims" really have an extensive network! It's unfortunate the Pilot removed his posts. I'm sure they went a long way in damaging any credibility he had.

SilverSpoon 5 years, 1 month ago

Sbvor is gone? The pilot removed his challenge? No more junksciencemagazine.com references? Who will balance the blog with some ultra conservative, business as usual, anti-science ranting? Not having Sbvor is like not having commercials in a debate on ABC.

"DRAMATICALLY"

I am all for cleaning up business but how about we don't ham string industry in the process.

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