For 20 years, Steamboat resident Rob Douglas was a Washington, D.C. private detective specializing in homicide, political corruption and terrorism. Since 1998, Douglas has been a commentator on local, state and national politics in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Colorado. To reach Rob Douglas, email rdouglas@SteamboatToday.com.

For 20 years, Steamboat resident Rob Douglas was a Washington, D.C. private detective specializing in homicide, political corruption and terrorism. Since 1998, Douglas has been a commentator on local, state and national politics in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Colorado. To reach Rob Douglas, email rdouglas@SteamboatToday.com.

Rob Douglas: Put an Emerald on this Crown

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Rob Douglas

Rob Douglas' column appears Fridays in the Steamboat Today. He can be reached at rdouglas@SteamboatToday.com.

Find more columns by Douglas here.

— Recall the Rainbow Family gathering in Big Red Park two summers ago or, as I like to call it, The Panic of '06. I'm starting to wonder if, in the prejudices of some, Triple Crown Sports is nothing more than the Rainbow Family in better uniforms.

Given all the hysteria surrounding Triple Crown's desire to use Emerald Park, it's only a matter of time until the first report of a softball player showering in the vegetable misters at Safeway - a call placed by someone still afraid to enter Big Red Park for fear of catching cooties.

Two summers ago, I watched friends - acting as if their brains had leaked on the pillow during the night - rumormonger about the Rainbows. Our local district attorney made national news by imprisoning two men caught green-handed perpetrating that most heinous of acts - picking rotten veggies from the trash.

That caper, "The Sweet Pea Incident," is studied in law schools across the nation. While teaching young prosecutor wannabes how to avoid being overzealous, professors of the law command: "Remember Steamboat! Don't be a Sweet Pea."

So, it is unfortunate when it comes to Triple Crown's request to use Emerald Park that a vocal minority are reviving the trademark paranoia of many when it came to the Rainbow Family.

Granted, as the prospect of spring looms on the horizon, some of us - exhibiting a bit of Ski Town snobbery - begin the annual rite of bashing Triple Crown. Allegations of rude behavior, bad driving, shoppers in numbered uniforms wandering like lost souls in City Market (OK, that one's true) and low tipping multiply like Easter bunnies at Elk River Farm & Feed.

But this year's crisis involves more angst than usual as Triple Crown seeks permission to use the Emerald Park fields for - brace yourself - 12 days a year, for two years, during times of the day when the fields typically are dormant and Pamela Lane residents are at work.

Twelve days!

Shiver me timbers!

Residents of Pamela Lane and proprietors of the Yampa River Botanic Park are in an uproar about traffic and the unbearable noise of middle-class families having fun. These are the same folks who choose to live and work so close to the railroad that train engineers can reach out to prune shrubs and change diapers as they rumble by.

Go figure.

Perhaps if folks on Pamela Lane want to vent, they should do so at those who didn't provide better access to Emerald in prior years. The sight of former city councilman Jim Engelken lecturing a mirror would at least provide comic relief.

Now don't get me wrong. I like Jim. We had a nice chat on the Core Trail a few weeks ago. He said he enjoyed a column of mine. I warned the day might come when he wouldn't. Apparently I'm prescient.

This past Tuesday, Engelken challenged the integrity of City Council and demanded the council uphold promises Engelken - as a member of a previous council - made to ban Triple Crown from Emerald Park. But, to demand that any legislature be bound by the actions of a previous legislature is sheer folly at best. Does Engelken believe future Congresses are bound to fund the Iraq war forever because the current Congress has? I suspect not.

I'd bet Engelken, as a council member, voted to modify actions of prior councils. After all, that's why we hold elections. Elections often reflect the desire of voters to change the actions of the old guard. The current council knows that better than most. The appropriate role of council is to weigh facts as they currently exist, not to rubber-stamp promises of a former member with a conflict of interest given his address.

Frankly, the attempt to block Triple Crown from using existing fields on an interim basis until a new complex is built smacks of hypocrisy. If that twisted logic wins the day, residents near Howelsen Hill and Mount Werner should demand City Council restrict access to those venues to locals only.

Finally, those willing to risk the loss of Triple Crown should specifically name which of their neighbors, friends, family members and co-workers should lose their jobs, and which tax-funded programs should be eliminated, when 32,000 visitors take their wallets over Rabbit Ears Pass to never return.

Rob Douglas can be reached at Douglas@privacytoday.com

Comments

Gladys 7 years, 4 months ago

Excellent article - I would add, if you don't like tourists, then don't live in a resort town.

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bocal 7 years, 4 months ago

Amen Douglas. Did an angel whisper that in your ear last night?

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bigdog 7 years, 4 months ago

Amen brother! You had better Katy Bar the doors now.....

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

I agree with scooter. Some of us were here before the tourist invasion began. Does being a "resort town' mean the tourism people can 'walk all over' and 'crush' whoever gets in their way? Does it mean they can raise the rents of workers until they are forced from their homes? Does being a 'tourits town' allow employers the right to hire illegal aliens because they "need" cheap labor? It seems to me tourism is all about money and nothing else. 40 more TC teams is how many more SUV's to pollute the valley? As long as they bring in the bucks-who cares?

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homegrown 7 years, 4 months ago

Colowoodsman, exactly how long have you lived here, you must have been a member of the Ute tribe. I've only lived her for 31 years, but I can't remember being here before the tourist invasion. Also without these horrible tourists you are bound to watch property taxes rise through the roof. And the people hiring illegal aliens are not in the tourist industry, they are the smaller construction companies that are building spec homes to make money off the tourists that want to buy 2nd and 3rd homes. Then these contractors will walk away with all their money, how does that help our mountain economy.

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blackthroatedwind 7 years, 4 months ago

Sheesh, its not about SUV's, woodsman. I don't feel crushed by TC, I'm more man than that. And TC hasn't raised anyone's rent. Get real. Your comments are so far out in left field, you diminish the rational arguments against letting TC use Emerald Park.

The poorly designed one way access into Emerald Park is reason enough not to force the residents of Pamela Lane to put up with Hundreds of vehicles cruising up and down the road for those 12 days. If Mr. Douglas lived on Pamela Lane and was raising a 5 year old who played in the front yard during the day when the TC events were going on, he would undoubtedly feel differently. Douglas, you are as far out in left field as woodsman. Its not Rainbow paranoia, its a very real danger posed by too much traffic on a poorly designed park access road. Its public safety, not Rainbow paranoia!

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bloggyblog 7 years, 4 months ago

blog respects someone who isn't afraid to address a controversial issue. i agree with rob's take on the triple crown for the most part, except for the comparison to the sweet pea incident. there was a little more to that story than most people heard. they were not two little poor hippies scrounging through garbage looking for food. they were rich kids playing dirtbags. one of them had 600 bucks in his pocket and they had actually broken into the retail area of sweet pea and stolen various items. then after they were arrested one of their rich daddy's hired a team of lawyers. not exactly the harmless little hungry hippies they portrayed themselves to be! bloggy thought that point needed clarification.

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addlip2U 7 years, 4 months ago

I have yet to find a value or a point of interest in any of the commentaries delivered by Rob Douglas. What makes him an expert on any of the issues he spews about?

Pilot, if you need to fill out the pages of the local papers, how about some international news instead.

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krisjeffb 7 years, 4 months ago

It would really only have been a very small sacrifice by a very small number of people for the good of the many. Even some residents of Pamela Lane understand this and supported the use of the Emerald Park fields for Triple Crown on the limited basis proposed. City Council got this one wrong by allowing a very vocal minority to jeopardize our valuable relationship with Triple Crown.

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blackthroatedwind 7 years, 4 months ago

Blog, there aren't many poor hippies any more. Most of the little Trustafarians have rich daddies paying for their lifestyle, including their trips to the beautyshop to design their dreads. Marley would roll over in his grave...

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id04sp 7 years, 4 months ago

There are a couple of groups that visit Steamboat in droves on an annual or occasional basis who bring very little money to town with them and don't spend any more than they have to.

I would suggest, Rob, that you ask some of the owners of locally owned restaurants up and down Lincoln how their sales do during Triple Crown as opposed to other similar periods. My own experience was that triple crowners tend to hole up 8 to a room and live on peanut butter and jelly, carry-out pizza, sandwiches made in the motel room and other low-cost options.

I guess sales tax revenues during triple crown events might be a good indication too.

I think a certain number of local business owners would tell you that triple crown brings large crowds which, in some cases, displace summertime visitors who would spend more money eating out in town and shopping than the triple crown folks do.

You have a voice in the Pilot, so why not go up and down Lincoln and ask the business OWNERS what they think about the money that comes in during triple crown, and give us an objective assessment of what it really means for the whole community versus just the operators of hotels and motels.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

addlip2u writes: "Pilot, if you need to fill out the pages of the local papers, how about some international news instead."

addlip2u: I am sitting here with ink stains on my fingers reading today's SP&T. I am looking at 4 pages of international news, more than you would find in any paper servicing a community this size. Perhaps you didn't recognize the international news section as it is called World News. I suppose that could confuse you. As to the lack of value of my columns, hopefully one day I'll hit upon a subject you find worthy. I'll keep trying.
Until then, please feel free to not pay for the Friday edition. Thank you, Rob

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

scooter: Sorry I missed your comment in print this morning, I had other matters to work on. But rest easy, a friend gave me the gist of what you said. I'd be happy to consider retaining you as my nutritionist. But, given child labor laws, I'll have to wait until you make it through puberty and have a big-boy name - perhaps Skippy. Thank you, Rob

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ColoradoNative 7 years, 4 months ago

idos4p......You bring up a great idea.

Rob are you willing to accept the challenge and walk main street to talk to the business owners about the positive or negative impacts the TC has on their establishments?

Seems like a reasonable request. I'd take it a step further and interview other business owners on the mountain and beyond to really get a true pulse.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

id: Thank you for your well-thought out comments. You always raise important points and points of view worth considering. I have spoken with numerous people about Triple Crown specifically and, more broadly, the larger issue of summer tourism. I have spoken with those for and against TC and I have spoken with residents and business owners. Of businesses, I've probably spoken more with restaurant owners (actually they often approach me when I'm out and about) than any other business category, as I do not interact with the hotel/motel operators given I live here. I can assure you that I have yet to have a business owner express a desire to see TC leave - especially if there is no other viable replacement for the millions of dollars in revenue that would be lost. That doesn't mean there isn't a business owner out there who wants TC to go, but I haven't run into that owner yet. I am aware that the 2006 Summer Visitor Research study by RRC associates shows that Triple Crown visitors stay longer and spend more than any other category of summer visitor to Steamboat. I believe if you examine that report and other economic studies, you will find that TC has been the summer life blood for many workers on the low-end of the economic scale and that the loss of TC would mean the loss of hundreds of jobs here in the valley. While the issue of TC may be an interesting intellectual debate for some of us, for others it is literally the ability to put food on the table and raise a family here in Steamboat. Those are the people I care about and are always who I think about when I consider how an issue impacts life here. Thank you again, Rob

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

Thread,

The amount of work needed to modify the access to Emerald park's parking lot is minimal. There is already an acces almost directly to the the lot from lincoln.

Google Earth, Pamela lane, Steamboat Springs, Co.

See what I mean?

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papafu 7 years, 4 months ago

Golly, reading these comments is almost as good as going to see the Pirate Theatre Production at the soon to be demolished Mountain Theater. Almost.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

ColoradoNative: See my comments to id. Actually, I'm on Lincoln Avenue all the time and while I may not be the most social person, in the sense of being out and about every evening, I do interact with a very broad range of people in the community. Also, I include my personal email address and phone number with every column. Anyone who wants to share their views is able to do so and many have in the short-period I've been writing for the paper. I answer all responsible emails and calls, even if it takes me a little bit of lag time to do so given my reponsibilities to my business. Many thanks- Rob

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Hadleyburg_Press 7 years, 4 months ago

I am simpathetic to the Pamela Lane residence's concern over TC traffic. How about asking TC to pay to post traffic patrol in the neighborhood during the duration of the event to enforce speed limits? Just a thought.

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nofear 7 years, 4 months ago

Mr. Douglas-

It is interesting that you can be so informed about a long standing topic having been here such a short period of time however, I don't feel you are examining the subject at the level it truly needs to be reviewed.

If the revenue generation from Triple Crown is of such an importance to the community as you suggest, then why haven't we planned for that need?

The chamber knew for years the Vintage Auto Races were in need of a new venue. The growth of Steamboat Springs was eventually going to eliminate the use of the roads in town. Did they work with any city council and say we need to plan for the future of a revenue generator that at that time equaled Triple Crown and only took one weekend to do it? No.

When the Cutting Horse event felt squeezed by space and time, did the chamber come to a seated council and say we need to work on a schedule and placement for a revenue generator that spent more in that one week than was accumulated over the previous two months? No. So,they finally left town and took their millions with them.

So, we lose two HUGE revenue generators that impacted we citizens for a total of 14 days and somehow, no neighborhood was threatened that they would cause the loss. No single citizen was depicted as the lone destructor of profits for all. These choices were made by the same chamber that has now left us with only Triple Crown. We gave up filet mignon and are left with hot dogs.

So rather than blaming our citizens and neighborhoods, why don't we focus on creating a TRUE chamber of commerce? One that is willing to fund itself rather than relying on city tax support, one that will work with all the businesses in town not just focus on resort lodging and truly devise a marketing plan that reflects capturing high end, high class events with less impact and more revenue for our community.

That type of money can feed our families AND leave us room to recreate in our neighborhoods.

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Hammurabi 7 years, 4 months ago

The comments on this thread have been very enlightening. However, as usual, many have either ignored history or weren't here when the park originally came into being. It is my recollection that all the land around the Pamela Lane residences was plotted for a massive, high-density development of small patio homes and/or mobile homes. When the community voted to bond for the trail system negotiations began with the adjacent landowners to acquire the park property. Then as the land was acquired for both Emerald Park and the Botanic Park access to those sites became an issue. First I recall that the city built all the fencing behind those houses that faced the trail to ensure their privacy. The city, as the park was developed also put on the table a secondary access to the park that would run behind those houses, between the housing and the trail. The negotiations fell apart because the only access that the residents would agree to was the one south of Pamela Land and across the train tracks. This access has presented numerous problems through the years: two being, difficulty with adding a yet another access point on Lincoln and safety and negotiations with the owner of the train tracks. A light was later added to assist both park visitors and residents in entering and leaving the Pamela Lane area. It seems that this neighborhood has boxed themselves in over the years and don't want anyone else to play in "their" park. P.S. I also seem to recall that the ball fields were originally meant for local use only, but time changes everything.

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quietman 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob-

I am disappointed that you are jumping on our historic bandwagon of attacking an individual who actually stepped up to the plate and took on a difficult community role. Jim Engleken worked hard for our community for all the right reasons. Whether you agree with all his viewpoints or not, he was there representing his community not to punch up his ego or practice for a higher elected seat.

Not one person on any board can make a decision without the board majority so, attacking an individual for an entire board policy is ridiculous and immature. Not something I would expect from someone with your government background.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

blackthroatedwind: You write: "The poorly designed one way access into Emerald Park is reason enough not to force the residents of Pamela Lane to put up with Hundreds of vehicles cruising up and down the road for those 12 days. If Mr. Douglas lived on Pamela Lane and was raising a 5 year old who played in the front yard during the day when the TC events were going on, he would undoubtedly feel differently."

I gave serious consideration to the points you make vis-a-vis traffic prior to penning my column. Let me share my thinking. 1) I, along with millions of Americans, grew up on a street far busier than Pamela Lane. In my case, a busy intersection with a far smaller yard than any on Pamela Lane. I survived. 2) Pamela Lane is not subject to anymore traffic than Oak or Pine Streets, River Road through Brooklyn or any of numerous other streets in Steamboat - not to mention tens of thousands of neighborhoods across America. 3) Pamela Lane has a slower speed limit and traffic control devises that none of those other streets in Steamboat have. 4) Pamela Lane sees increased traffic periods for about 1/3 of the year. Other neighborhoods and streets in Steamboat see much higher traffic volume at higher speeds year-round.

Given your concerns and the way you've framed them blackthroatedwind, Emerald Park and the Botanic Gardens should be closed and all locals denied access in order to provide safety for Pamela Lane. Even if TC ends up using the Park for 12 days a summer, TC will make up a tiny fraction of the traffic on Pamela Lane. I've attended several events including a large wedding at the Botanic Park and weekly concerts. No one objected to all the cars we drove in and out for those events. TC is no different. Many thanks-- Rob

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

HadleyburgPress: As I understand it, traffic control is on the table with Triple Crown in the ongoing discussions. Rob

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jack legrice 7 years, 4 months ago

The CC and Chamber have seen this coming. It looks like it will be promises made and promises broken. As for the comment, that the Pamela Ln people should sacrifice for the majority is out of line and an insult. I ask the CC to step to the plate and stop TC in it's place.It will be 12 days this year. Next year what will it be.As to the times change ,in this case there was a lack of action by chamber and previous CC. The Botanical Gardens are part of this area , those of the locals who enjoy this will also be effected by this. Just because it it is only 12 days doesn't cut it. CC please stop this now and step up to the plate unlike the earlier CC. Thank you

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

quietman: I have no government background. Other than the occasional contract from federal agencies, Congress and the courts to investigate crime, I have never been a government official or politican. More to your point. If disagreeing with the position of Jim Engelken is viewed as an attack by you, well, there's nothing I can do about that. Jim, as I'm sure he would point out, is not immune to criticism anymore than those that Jim has criticized, and questioned the integrity of, are. I am not attacking Jim--but I am very comfortable pointing out where I disagree with him. I have no doubt his heart is in the right place. I used to be one of the regular listeners to his radio program. But good people can come to the wrong conclusion. I think Jim has here. Others will see it from Jim's perspective. I suspect there are far more issues where Jim and I would agree. Public discussion of those agreements and differences is not only what sets our republic apart from many around the world, it's a good thing and a healthy thing in our community.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

nofear: Thank you for your comments. I think you are conflating 2 issues. The first issue is whether TC should be granted a temporary use of Emerald Park given the facts and circumstances as they stand today. The second issue is whether the Chamber - and I would add previous City Councils - have addressed prior issues appropriately, including retention of other, now lost, events and long-range planning. As to the first, I've written extensively in the column and the posts here. As to the second, I have no cause to disagree with you. I would also encourage you to make your views known to the current council and chamber if you feel they are repeating past mistakes. Both bodies are accessible to us all and both are influenced by voters and members respectively. Thank you, Rob

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elk2 7 years, 4 months ago

I think the residents of Pamela Lane need a good attorney!!

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kielyj 7 years, 4 months ago

You are a funny guy, Rob. Not very well informed but funny. It took six years to get the Emerald Park fields built. The reason they were built was to have a sanctuary from Triple Crown for the local kids. Before the fields the Little League season started in July and ended after Memorial Day. We were restricted to 3-4 nights a week and no weekends. There was no place to practice. So the fields got built and they are working out just fine. There needs to be some place that is not commercialized; someplace that Triple Crown or any other commercial entity can't invade. Nothing has changed that need in ten years.

You are not seriously broaching the idea that there is anything temporary about Triple Crown in Emerald Park are you? Because once they are in they are in and the 12 days will be 30 and then 60 all day long. Our kids will be sucking hind teat again. Do you seriously think there will ever be a complex built for Triple Crown? Since you are such a newbie maybe you don't know that this is a fifteen year old discussion that shows no more chance of being resolved now than it was fifteen years ago. The Chamber of Commerce wants everything in the town to be available for commercial use. Emerald Park was built precisely in order that there would be one place that would not be at the booster's command; it was specifically built for our kids. It needs to stay that way.

If Emerald Park is whored out to Triple Crown it gives the Babbits a little more time before they have to face up to the fact that if Triple Crown is so vital to Steamboat then Steamboat needs to invest in a ball complex to keep them here.

So yuk it up Rob. The City Council made some promises ten years ago; to Pamela lane and to the kids and parents who need the fields and who worked to get them built. A shill for the Chamber of Commerce, such as yourself, might not take such promises seriously. I hope the rest of the town is not as shallow.

Jack Kiely

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almostlocal 7 years, 4 months ago

I have been involved in the hotel/condo business in Steamboat for the past 17 years, and also was involved in the ownership of a downtown restaurant for 15 years. I can tell you that Triple Crown is the single most important source of business and revenue in the summer. They keep many people employed throughout the off season and summer making their reservations, and the front desk staffs, housekeepers and maintenance men are employed all summer because of the business they generate in June, July and August. I do not know of one downtown restaurant that can survive without them. The exception may be the pricy, high end restaurants that most average people can't afford to go to (I know I can't!) I disagree that these teams "hole up" in their condos and eat PB&J's. If they do that, why are so many people complaining that they crowd the restaurants so much that locals can't get in there to eat? (Why any local would consider going out to dinner during Triple Crown - as well as during Christmas, Presidents' Week and Spring Break - is beyond me.) I loved Doug's article - it truly says what many people in Steamboat are thinking but are not vocalizing.

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id04sp 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob,

You state that Triple Crown spends more money than any other group. My question back to you is, what do they spend per capita compared to other tourists. If 10,000 TC people spend $3,000,000 ($300 each) but 5,000 other people spend $600 each, it's the same amount of money.

Surely if Triple Crown did not come and neither did anyone else, business would suffer. On the other hand, if Triple Crown did NOT come, would others come in their place and spend more per head?

Are people calling for reservations and not getting them because of TC? Do people avoid town when TC is here?

Your comments are probably accurate and the opinions you convey from the business owners are what they are, but the comparison would be to look at the TC weeks versus the adjacent weeks before and after, and compare them.

A true analysis requires more than a one-dimensional look at the issue. We still don't know if TC actually brings a benefit compared to families, seniors, couples and smaller groups that come to see the mountains instead of to play softball. That's all.

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

Hammurabi writes

"This access has presented numerous problems through the years: two being, difficulty with adding a yet another access point on Lincoln and safety and negotiations with the owner of the train tracks. A light was later added to assist both park visitors and residents in entering and leaving the Pamela Lane area."

Yet another accesspoint on Lincoln? There that many of those are there? Come on now, look at the benifit of accessing both the botanical and emerald directly. No more residential access means less potential impact on the residents of Pamela lane. Traffic will occur on Lincoln far enough from the Pamela light to make a light at the new location sensible. Then no matter what time of year or when someone wishes to visit either of these two parks the residents of Pamela lane will not be affected.

Or is this realy about the reidents of Pamela trying to keep Emerald all to themselves? Kind of nice having a park at the end of the block all secluded from the rest of the Boat.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

Mr. Kiely, In spite of your inability to converse absent gutter language, I will briefly respond. But, given your incivility and foul mouth this will be the only response you will ever receive from me. Much as you would like to fantasize, length of residence does not equate to ability to understand the history, facts, and options concerning the issue at hand. But, to demonstrate that your opinion is not as widely held by others, I've received numerous calls and personal emails today from long-time Routt County - in one instance multi-generation - residents. Interestingly, they agree with my position and were able to express themselves in language absent your vulgarity. Yes--I believe the council can negotiate a contract with TC that limits the use of the park and enforces those limits. Should things turn out otherwise, and should TC violate the contractual terms in a significant fashion, I'll be happy to write about that as well. Oh--by the way--if you think Little League is not big business in the United States, well, I have to question your judgment overall. In closing Jack, you seem to have a real case of bitterness. Lighten up my friend. The world isn't ending. As we speak mature adults who can work through an issue absent your vindictive are attempting to find another way for TC to operate absent Emerald. Time will tell. Oh--one last thing Jack. I've answered your questions for the first and last time--try the one in my last paragraph of the column. Which of your neighbors jobs should be lost if TC leaves? No need to respond here--just go knock on their door and tell them personally.

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quietman 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob-

It is too bad you didn't make those comments in your article, the one printed and distributed to the community. What I read here, in a much less visible location, doesn't really reflect the same feeling as your initial article.

Your ability to disagree with someone in distributed print does not read as disagreement, just attack. How about next topic, get the opposite opinion published as well?

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

In his article Mr. Douglas accuses his friends(?) of 'acting as if their brains had leaked out on the pillow overnight'. His article clearly shows he has probably suffered a similar fate. Perhaps he should consult a podiatrist to help him extricate his southern most extremity from his mastication orifice.

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another_local 7 years, 4 months ago

The TC teams that come here now are youth teams. The "bar fights" etc referred to are nearly a decade in the past. Steamboat asked TC to take the adult tournaments elsewhere and bring family oriented youth tournaments instead, which they did.

The failure to replace the auto races and the horse events is not for lack of trying. There is no waiting list of events out there looking for venues. There is no sure bet as far as replacing lost business.

The Craig fields are used for TC and have been for years and yes, Craig and Hayden very much want TC to stay here. There is no noisy debate there. This is very much a regional economic issue that our neighbors hope will be allowed to continue. That is why the land has been donated for fields in Hayden.

Changing the access to Emerald would be great. The access to the south of the Hampton Inn would involve moving the at-grade rail crossing or tunneling (5M) under the rail line. It is not possible to add another at-grade crossing. The rail road will allow this but will not pay for it. The problem lies in both the expense and the fact that the stoplight on 40 could not be moved since it connects to the road on the other side of 40... So it can be done but it is a less than perfect solution.

The unused fields at Whistler belong to the school district not the city. Parking would be an issue but it would be an interesting thing to look into adding a set of four fields there especially if you could access them across the property separating them from US 40. The Whistler neighborhood could use another access in any case.

The facts regarding TC visitors are that they spend more and therefore support more employment here than any other group. On the per-person-per-day basis that Id asked about, all the different identifiable summer visitor types spend the same amount within about $10. TC visitors spend somewhat less on activities as they have all day activities provided, but the lodging, food and souvenir purchases are in line with other groups.

They also stay an average of just over 5 days which drives the average total spent per visit into first place among different types of visitors.

Economic demographic comparison of summer visitors: TC visitors are comprised of 35% under 75K household income vs 50% for other visitors, 52% between 75K and 150K vs 32% for other visitors (with heavy concentration of 75-100K) and 12% above 150K vs 18% for other visitors. So, they are more concentrated in the middle incomes of 75K to150K than our non TC visitors, but hardly penny pinching, PB&J nibbling folks.

Could the city do a better job managing traffic and parking with help from TC? No doubt. Should TC pony up to cover impact expenses? Probably so. Is there a good alternative that will supply the same 500-600 full time summer jobs that make year-round employment available to a lot of local people that need it? No. At this time there is not.

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kielyj 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob,

Sorry I offended you. Was it the shill or the whored that did it? I thought it would take a little more than that to offend a man of your experience.

Be that as it may. Since this is going to be a one way conversation, I will try to answer your points.

Since the City Council is already showing an inclination to break an agreement of long standing there seems to me to be no reason to think any agreement about how temporary Triple Crown's time in Emerald Park will be will remain sacrosanct.

If you think the Steamboat Little league is Big Business you need to question your own judgement -overall,

I'll work on the bitterness.

As to your last paragraph. So the sole alternative to letting Triple Crown into Emerald Park is economic disaster for Steamboat. Nice touch. I guess sophistry like the poor is always with us.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

id: I wish I could get you a link to the study I referenced, but unfortunately I am only aware of copies in print. While I cannot claim that it would answer all the questions you raise to your satisfaction, I think it does demonstrate that person for person, TC's spend equal amounts to all other types of visitors. Some a bit more, some a bit less. But, there is no category of visitor that drops significantly more than TC and that is per capita per day. And, as the average TC visitor stays longer than all other categories of visitors, TC brings the most significant portion of summer revenue.

id, you write: "Surely if Triple Crown did not come and neither did anyone else, business would suffer. On the other hand, if Triple Crown did NOT come, would others come in their place and spend more per head?" --Here's a significant point made to me by another reader in the know given his restaurant businesses here in Steamboat that comes at your question from the opposite direction. Recall, the summer of 2002, when we had significant fires around the state (I remember it well as one of the drainage fires near Stagecoach came so close we had ash in the neighborhood and my neighbor asked me on his way to work to just save his dog - let the house burn - but save the dog). Recall that the Gov. went on national TV and said the whole state was on fire. Those comments killed tourism in the mountain resort communities - even from in-state front range tourists. But, one resort town did better than most. Steamboat. Because Triple Crown still came.

You also write: A true analysis requires more than a one-dimensional look at the issue. We still don't know if TC actually brings a benefit compared to families, seniors, couples and smaller groups that come to see the mountains instead of to play softball. That's all. --That is exactly what the study I referenced in previous comments did. Again, it found that TC spends just as much person for person. Given that, it is foolish to chase away 32,000 TC visitors. It's like the first rule of business and the one I operate under. It is easier to keep an existing customer than to go find a new one. Hope that helps-- Rob

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Mark Traum 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob, are we not seeing a burgeoning and expanding opportunity here? Cannot the communities of Hayden/Craig also prosper from TC? Seems to me that they do already. Craig has adequate facilities and should remain to be utilized and even capitalized. TC apparently likes it here in the Valley. They would most likely like staying the Valley too. And since the jobs everyone is talking about come form the Valley, not just Steamboat Springs, it would appear to be the most amicable solution. Not reneging on a deal. There are no parallels to the Iraq War, just another antagonizing trigger point pushed by your pedigree. One final note; Rob, if you plan on sensationalizing this issue with your article and then soften and adjust your view through this blog, then so be it. I guess you have created a little industry in itself for you and your appetite. Should we also startup a Steamboat Springs version of the Manatees?

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nofear 7 years, 4 months ago

Mr. Douglas-

I think you have put your finger on the problem. This community, county-wide is made up of approximately 28,000 people, city-wide approximately 13,000. Issues all effect one another in communities this size and separating them is how we end up reacting rather than acting.

This will be the second (third?) time discussion of extension of the Triple Crown contract for two years will have come up. If you were they, would you be comfortable with that? If the community needs them, should we be comfortable with that?

Making space for them wherever we can find it at whatever expense to the community each time their contract is reviewed is a reactionary, ridiculous way to manage anything. Especially if they are truly an important part of our economy.

A non-political, coordinated plan has got to be in place for economic stability. We need to define who we want to cater to, how we need to get them here, how much we expect from them, what will we need from the community, what our community costs would be and if it is all as beneficial.

I don't think you can separate discussions anymore. It hasn't worked in the past and only puts us in a position of defense rather than direction.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

To the caller who just left the profanity soaked voicemail demanding I leave town or, in the alternative, that I should die. Three points. 1) I'm not leaving. 2) I'm have no plans on dying. 3) Your use of caller ID blocking does not stop Qwest and the police from tracing your number. Have a nice day. Rob

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fishy 7 years, 4 months ago

This is too weird. The columnist gets on the blog and is more obnoxious than the worst bloggers. Rob, I don't see any "gutter language" or "incivility and foul mouth" in Kiely's post. Are you referring to the phrase "sucking hind teat?" Man, he must have really gotten to you. I hate to enrage you further, but I really think he's got some good points. In fact, I was glad when he got on the last article and told some of the facts about the creation of those fields. There are so many things about your 'column' that I dislike...but to name the highlights:

-the dumb analogy about congress and the Iraq war funding -the needless attack on Engelken who is standing up for what's right -the last dramatic paragraph about the impending tragedy when TC leaves

Looks like the Pilot found the perfect new writer: one who exaggerates and is super opinionated about a topic he doesn't know much about, then goes bonkers on the blog. Should keep circulation going strong!

p.s. are you making that up about the caller? I wonder.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

nofear: First, I'm Rob. No need to be formal. I agree with you. There does need to a long-term view of the issue. I know the editorial page has called for that, as recently as February if my memory serves, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more about that very soon. So yes. There needs to be a much longer view of this to wit: Does Steamboat want a long-term relationship with TC? Does TC want to be here long-term? If the answer to those are yes, what can be done to get a facility off the ground? Constantly having 2-year extensions is not good for either party. Hopefully, you and others will appreciate that I only have 700 words, give or take, per week in print. I use those to make my point as clearly as possible. I also try to take time (probably more than I should given other responsibilities in life) to answer responsible comments here to more fully develop the conversation. I don't get compensated for this extra part--but I try my best to encourage debate on the issues. Thanks-- Rob

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Does any one feel comfortable with this discussion?

It seems logical that if Triple Crown Sports partnership brings nearly $45 million gross annually to the Community then this line of business warrants professional inspection, planning and investment of resources (Capital).

I'd feel much better supporting the "temp" use of Emerald as a "bridge" if I saw something to "bridge to".

Nobody runs a business this way....certainly not for long.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

fishy: --There are plenty of witnesses to the call and it has been preserved for appropriate action if need be. It is not the only call like that I've received over the last 6 weeks, nor will it be the last I'm sure. It goes with the territory of expressing opinions. Sad--but true. There are some folks who can't express themselves absent profanity and hoped for death. --as to the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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nofear 7 years, 4 months ago

Mr. Douglas-

Thank you for the offer of informality, it is my attempt to retain civility in our community blogs. Thank you also for being active and accessible.

For me, dialog is always educational and opposing views always enlightening. Maybe just one more way to combat rumor mongering and encourage more active community members.

Look forward to the next 700 and future discussions.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

You know....there's a lot of room at Whistler Meadows Park to build three or more fields. Temp fields of high quality could easily be constructed for the TC World Series week then removed for soccer/football season.

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scooter 7 years, 4 months ago

I find it interesting:

The blog police removed my blog (#3) for possibly "stepping out of the box" with one comment that may not have been politically correct:. And yet Rob here is allowed to spout just about anything he wants, offending many of are Steamboat bloggers.

Like I said in blog #3, this paper has obviously made up their minds on Triple Crown by allowing this so called radio schlock jock to spew in eloquent yet uneducated "newbie" opinion, basically insulting all the hardworking homeowners on Pamela Lane.

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Rob Douglas 7 years, 4 months ago

Let me respond to one more issue here and I'll try to check back later and respond to more, but other work is piling up.

A couple of you have picked up on the Iraq War comparison and disagreed. Well sorry, I disagree with you.
Legislative bodies cannot commit future legislative bodies to any course of action. That is true whether it is Steamboat Springs or the Congress of the U.S. In fact, one of the major points of confrontation between Congress and Bush right now is Congress feels Bush (and a substantial portion of the current Congress) is trying to obligate future Congresses to financially burdensome commitments inside Iraq via agreements being signed between the Iraqi government and the Bush administration. Congress, correctly, is saying that is their responsibility and that future Congreses can and should evaluate our commitment based on facts at that time. Same applies to Steamboat. Engelken and previous councils can no more tie the hands of future councils than Bush or the current Congress can of future Congresses. It really is that simple. OK--I need to get all the things I haven't done today done. As some of you seem unhappy with my trying to have a dialogue here, I guess I'll reconsider whether it's worth it. I suppose I could be like most columnists and not respond to questions or comments. Rob

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Seriously, Whistler Meadows has nothing scheduled on it until fall lacrosse. Cutting a dirt infield takes days. There are high quality back stop and outfield fencing readily available for rent. We can allow TCS to bring maybe 40 more TEAMs THIS SUMMER....300 more folks per week staying in motels, eating out, riding the slide, hiring horses, etc.

We can turn a profit in two years time!!!

This makes total economic sense to me.

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ColoradoNative 7 years, 4 months ago

Well now we're getting somewhere stirrinuptrouble.

Somehow I always end right here but the underlying issue with Steamboat is the traffic. It's not the giggling kid with braces slamming a burrito in his mouth at the Rio Grand. It's the Suburban that rages all over town trying to get to all the TC events. It's also that suburban that is filling up the parking spots downtown. Add in all the gravel trucks, semis traveling through, locals trying to go about their daily lives and you have one big SHIAT SANDWICH!

Oh forget to add in all the construction projects downtown. Talk about a lack of long term planning. Note to the City Council. Never issue multiply redevelopment permits within a few city blocks in a small town like this again at once!

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Thanks CN for your comments.

I forgot about the large grass area at Whistle Meadows that is used for over flow parking. Make that 6 fields easily.

What happened to the ball field proposal at Heritage Park? The City spent big $$ and it was in the original master plan. Did Ty Lockhart and the neighbors shut the City down? Are they more important than Pamela Lane residents?

I personally offered our school district, about 8 years ago, in writing, $10k to do a preliminary study and draft for an athletic complex on the RE-2 property West of Steamboat. It was turned down as "we do not wish to become involved in the 3-Crown discussion. I did this looking for HS ball field that goes snow free before the end of the school year (it does most years) but it seems like RE-2 gets the 1/2% sales tax too. The land remains empty.

So come on folks....how about Whistler?? How about Heritage. At least build a field at Heritage for local kids to "have a catch", "hit a ball".

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

One other thing.....

There is zero land reserved for ball fields or soccer fields in the Steamboat 700 plan.....at least from what I can tell.

All land reserved for "open space, recreation and trails" is too steep to economically build facilities for field sports.

So.....guess these 20,000 plus residents will drive to Emerald.

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bandmama 7 years, 4 months ago

hmmmmm.... it would be nice to hear more form the locals, not just the columnists and one or two individuals. As to the phone call, I can vouch that Rob has claimed to have had phone calls before. As he called my place of business once not to long ago asking me to try to track down a "deep voiced" individual who allegedly left him a message. Even after explaining that this was a place of busines with 30+ employees, and he had reached the switchboard, he insisted on keeping a line tied up trying to figure out who this individual was. Even after I explained it could have been a customer. Although what he said the message contained WAS horrible, I really still fail to see why it was made my problem, even after saying I was sorry that the call was placed from this place of business, which by the way has at least 11 different lines. Rob you do seem to be a go getter, If you would agree to go downtown and publicly ask locals and business owners what they really think about TC, I promise I would come and share that experience with you. My personal feelings as a local? These folks come here, let thier children run amuck downtown and treat the employees as substandard humans. They pay no attention to speed limits, or traffic laws and get nasty and glare when we drive the posted limit. Here is an interesting point as well, how many counsil members (IE: Towny..) have personal financial gain from TC? TEE SHIRTS???????? anyone? Now, can I handle TWELVE WHOLE DAYS of the rudeness? Sure, I do live in a tourist town. goes with the territory. but come on, leave at least one park alone in the off hand chance that our own children would like to play.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Dear Bandmama,

You just heard from a local. My family is 5 generations CO although I'm the first in SS. We (I) believe in warm hospitality but are not open to being abused or taken advantage of. We believe in "a person's word" and despise those that can't keep it.

Profit is nice....makes the World go round...but not when it is at the expense of our neighbors or our progeny. The line must be drawn somewhere to establish a Community's ethics and Character.

This discussion turns my stomach and is the result of the search for excessive profits without the expenditure of capital. There is nothing new here, the discussions are old and the "plan" remains the same......rape those that allow themselves to be raped.

It used to be "six shooters"....perhaps it will come to that once again.

Personally I prefer the building of fields and the support, ney love, of "sports tourism"......but not the rape of areas set aside for the quiet personal pleasures and betterment of residents.

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bandmama 7 years, 4 months ago

stirringup- very well said. It is an interesting thing to think about, I wonder what the cost of living would reduce to for the locals if TC (and other venues) were not welcomed. I bet some of us would be able to quit ONE of our jobs....... One of the things I sincerely feel in love with when we came here, was the hospitality and warmth of the locals. It is a wonderful place to raise a family. I am just afraid that a lot of these families wont be able to live here if the current money grubbing all out greedy dollar trend continues.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Bandmama,

Please don't get me wrong.....I welcome TCS and all sports tourism...like a dude ranch welcomes customers.

We, the greater "we"... just need to keep our private parts private and do the planing to welcome our guests with true "Western Hospitality".

My personal opinion is we need to force our politicians to cause the hard work to be done that allows for accomplishment of both and not allow them to kowtow to short term interests that rarely produce long term going concerns.......build and plan for the next generation's future.

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foodchain 7 years, 4 months ago

I see arteries clogging and blood pressure skyrocketing between the lines he writes.

I hope that a nurse is on stand-by. Maybe he should stick to restaurant reviews?

Thanks for this columnist, Pilot. A puffed up wind bag who becomes unhinged blogging to his own column. Very entertaining. Bravo!

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freerider 7 years, 4 months ago

I wonder why the Steamboat Pilot never has a bad word to say about the Triple Crown...then they endorse an editorial like this guy. First off, I could care less about those 32 thousand wallets never coming back to Steamboat. In fact I wish they would find some other place to infest for there summer ritual. Not everybody in Steamboat supports the Triple Crown and quite frankly I think it's pathetic the way the Town Council bends over for them. Rob Douglas is just another greedy local that panders to the almighty dollar and doesn't respect the locals that live here for the quality of life. Rob Douglas acts like if the Triple Crown doesn't come to Steamboat then we will all shrivel up and die ...cuz how on Earth would we ever get along without those 32 thousand wallets....Hey Rob get on your knees and pray for those dollars to come rolling in along with the rudeness and alcohol abuse and not to mention all the fights that break out in the bars because of all the testosterone flowing from these frustrated wannabe ball players.....just say No to the triple crown ...and stop the brutal marketing.......

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bandmama 7 years, 4 months ago

stirringup- I do agree with you, I have no problem entertaining guests for twelve days, but I am usually VERY glad to see them go home. As you pointed out, there are other options not being addressed, the sad thing is, they wont be addressed. I still feel that busses would be used to cut down on the "SUV" pollution, heavin knows no one here drives those gas hogs...(yes dripping sarcasm) Other fields can be used, and traffic laws can be enforced. AND...the guests can control thier children and thier own behavior in public. Just an idea...... food chain--- heh heh heh.......

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scooter 7 years, 4 months ago

foodchain... It warms my heart to see that your OTHS blogs were nothing more then an April fools joke.

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foodchain 7 years, 4 months ago

I know, I know, I am so sorry about that. When I wrote the OTHS blog I had just finished off a few turkey legs, King Henry the 8th style. The fat pressing against my vocal chords affected my thinking. No one should be allowed to blog while under the influence of a large meal.

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ColoradoNative 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob Said "I can assure you that I have yet to have a business owner express a desire to see TC leave".

Rob could you give us a list of the business owners that support the triple crown that you've talked to.

You haven't talked to a single business owner in Steamboat that wants to the TC to leave? Not one?

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foodchain 7 years, 4 months ago

At the risk of being pegged elitist, or worse, a hipster, I would be in favor of promoting summer agritourism as an alternative to 3 crown. Agritourism is tourism...of the Future! Two words: Schrute Farms!

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id04sp 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob,

It was many posts ago, but if the study you mention was done well and is accurate, then TC does bring a financial benefit to the city.

If that's all true, then the people who consider themselves to be inconvenienced need to, as we say in Naval Aviation, "suck it up." Nobody forced them to live in a resort town.

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JazzSlave 7 years, 4 months ago

steamvent:

It appears you need to review the forum's terms & conditions, and wrap your brain around the concept of an open forum.

Anyone in the community is entitled to the "space to pen opinions on local issues" via letters to the editor. I and others have done it, and then taken part in the ensuing back-and-forth.

You moan about the "endless diatribe" taking place, and yet here you are, contributing bleat #90 to the same "endless diatribe", LOL.

It's instructive that you have nothing to say about the content of Rob's column; you just whine about his right to talk about it, or to defend any of the assertions he makes.

Certain people should be excluded from conversation - especially when they're the topic!

The First Amendment isn't your favorite, is it?

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steamvent 7 years, 4 months ago

jazzslave: You missed the point, didn't you. But then, your emotional First Amendment card says it all ... even though you had your hand up many times, no one ever called on you and you're still feeling the pain. Get over it.

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bloggyblog 7 years, 4 months ago

rob, allow blog to introduce you to 'little miss sunshine', oops i mean foodchain. pay no attention to their pollyanic dribble, thats just how they get their jollies, being rude and inciting dissension. as far as the subject at hand...blog can't believe all the anger being directed at TC. i mean we're talking about softball players right? yes, it does present an inconvenience at times. but judging by some of the above reactions you would think we're talking about serial killers or hells angels! bloggy learned long ago that you have to make concession's to live in paradise.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Blog

We're not talking about softball players.....haven't for some years now. In fact in 2009 there will be zero slow pitch softball players tournaments and only one this year. In the past 5 years there has only been one slow pitch softball tournament. All else is one week of fast pitch softball and the rest youth baseball.

Your opinions are characteristically only outweighed by your ignorance.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Blog

How much are you willing to give up to "live in paradise" and what characteristics do you define as "paradise"?

Does taking advantage of your neighbors and treating the Community's kids to put $$ in your pocket qualify as "paradise" for you?

You deserve what you get my friend.

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LookoutJoe 7 years, 4 months ago

stirrinuptrouble, I live a few steps from Whistler. Everybody who lives around there, and there are a lot, enjoy the peace and quiet during the summer time. Many know how nice of a neighborhood it is. But I don't want to see that field torn up and made into fields so we can get more of those clowns to play ball here. I am certain most every person living in the immidiate area would be pissed as hell if that happened.

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bloggyblog 7 years, 4 months ago

yes of course! thank you for your insightfull correction. it really makes a difference. blog would like to apologize being so off subject.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

Lookoutjoe,

I don't live on Pamela Lane...but if I did.....perhaps you would join in there concerns?

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

Homegrown- I am not a member of the Ute tribe but I guess you COULD say that the tourist invasion started when the first whites came into the valley. I HAVE been here long enough to know that the Western Hospitality that Steamboat WAS once know for did not depend on how much money you spent. A reduction in the number of tourists would help solve several problems at once. It would help free up housing for workers, reduce the need for 'cheap labor' and cut down on traffic and parking problems. It would also reduce the need of city services to support tourism. What ever happened to 'private industry' in this country?

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bloggyblog 7 years, 4 months ago

stirrinuptrouble, blog isn't looking to trade potshots with you, but would like you to know that i sacrificed a great deal to make steamboat my home. as far as what i'm willing to give up to live here, i don't have much more to give. blog is a simple person who lives on very moderate means. to be honest, i make a fraction of what the average citizen does but i'm still happy because my idea of paradise doesn't involve money. i have no idea what your "taking advantage of your neighbors" comment is supposed to mean.

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LookoutJoe 7 years, 4 months ago

stirringup, I would join in on those concerns, sure. Having Triple Crown is definitly not like having a soccer match or little league game at the end of the street.

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bigdog 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob, I hope you took my advice. Knuckleheads abound.....

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steamboatcontrarian 7 years, 4 months ago

Has anyone ever heard the term "industrial tourism"? Has anyone ever read Hal Rothman's book, "Devil's Bargains?" We have made a devil's bargain with TCS, and no one knows how to extract us from it. Certainly not the Chamber. City Council appears to have the political will, but that could easily evaporate with intense lobbying from the vested interests.

Industrial tourism is no different than chasing smoke stacks back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Constantly pressed to subsidize the business to keep it in town, community after community found itself in a "devil's bargain" and the fearmongers ruled the day: "the store windows will be shuttered and tumbleweeds will be blowing down Main Street." So another bargain was made, a little more of the community's soul was taken, and surprise, the community eventually lost when the company made a decision to leave anyway. -- usually with little advance notice. And the community was left to do what it should have done years before, only now it was going to cost a lot more and take a lot more time.

Will Steamboat fare any differently? Of course not. TCS is industrial tourism, and Steamboat is just a venue, albeit probably the nicest one TCS has. But why would a place that has so many natural assets to attract visitors resort to a venue-based industry as its economic linchpin? Do we really believe the tumbleweeds will be blowing down Lincoln Avenue if TCS leaves? Chances are, once the word is out, there will be visitors coming who simply would not come BECAUSE of TCS.

Who will have the guts and vision to extract us from this devil's bargain and chart a course that capitalizes on the assets of this place? What would be the difference? Ballfields can be built anywhere; the mountain can't leave, anymore than the Yampa River or the National Forest or ...

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

Mr. Douglas- What business are you in? It is very obvious that you do not share the same values and sense of community that attracted many LONG TIME locals to this area. Many of us have endured thirty or more winters here, we have seen numerous 'booms and busts', we have had long periods of unemploment but we stay despite these hardships because of the unique qualities of the area. Now, however, those qualities are being seriously threatened. You may think, with your limited experience, that you are doing a great service to the community but in reallity you are only hastening its decline.

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Bill Whittemore 7 years, 4 months ago

I do agree, in some ways, with many different town people such as id04sp, nofear, kielyj, and some more. Rob Douglas, I read your article. I also read all of your comments telling everyone who wrote therir comments about Triple Crown, that all of them are wrong, and that you know everything that should happen, even though you've been here a short time. I moved here 27 years ago. Steamboat was very quiet and much different then. I've seen many changes, some good and some bad. I remember when Triple Crown first came. That was so wonderful to have happen, because of our summer finances. About 4 or 5 years ago I started to dislike seeing them still coming here. Up until 5 years ago we had many, many visitors coming here, some for the whole summer. I would be very happy to say "Bye" to TC. After they leave, we will have so many condos and hotel rooms that visitors will finally be able to rent, while we have better luck, financially. Rob Douglas, if I was your boss, I would have fired you today because of your spending so much time writing email notes insead of doing your Steamboat Pilot/Today work.

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Books 7 years, 4 months ago

I agree with traumm Craig has a bunch of fields, why not share the love with them. Most TC people are driving hundreds of miles to get here already, 50 more miles won't hurt them. A bunch of people in this valley make that drive every day. That would be a better alternative than Emerald fields.

82 blog comments in one day, as of this post. This seems like a controversial issue, I think we should put the 09 / 10 contract up for a vote in the general election in November. Let the people decide.

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scooter 7 years, 4 months ago

Books... It seems that it just doesn't work that way up here, at least when it comes to TC. I wish they would put it on the ballot.

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jack legrice 7 years, 4 months ago

lookoutjoe, Thanks well said. Brent get rid of this guy.And when did Rob make himself the moral police. He is right up there with Less Otten and ASC. No one seems to listen to those of us who have watched this town lose the quality it used to have 35 years ago. I took part along with others trying to avoid the problems we now see. Only to be put down by the greed mongers in this town. We survived with the small amount of summer tourists. Look where bigger has got us. Steamboat Springs is a wreck waiting to happen. But don't worry Rob alot of the old timers are leaving,because of people like you and Brent. It will soon be yours to destroy even more.

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hyperion 7 years, 4 months ago

In regards to alternate access to Emerald Park the Union Pacific would never agree to another crossing and if they did they would require the city to install crossing gates at a cost of $200,000. If Triple Crown is needed for economic stability during the summer then ask Triple Crown's owner to use some of the $500,000 he was going to use to buy his entry into the WNBA two years ago, along with public money, to construct a new complex that can accomadate the growth in the number of teams that want to come to Steamboat.

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Ilike2dv8 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob, I'm hopeful that you continue to write. TC is obviously a hotly contested issue. Over time perhaps it will be replaced with something everyone loves... but I'm not betting on it. People whined when the car races were here, the rodeo folks couldn't get along with the cutting horse folk, no one or even a series of events is going to get everyone's approval. If we want to continue to host the TC events it makes sense to find a place to construct additional fields for play. Although I do agree that other streets in town have serious traffic, they don't have the intensity of the traffic that flows into Pamela Lane. The council needs to find a way to move the entrance to the park just south of the Hampton Inn. This would greatly reduce the risk to the children that play in the neighborhood. People seem to lose their heads when they are in a hurry... I truly worry that a driver late for a game or a concert in the park will drive a little too fast and not see the child or dog that accidentally runs into the street. It's not inexpensive but the entrance needs to be moved. As for all the haters who have lived here since the days of Moses: what resort or even mountain or beach town hasn't grown radically over the years? I don't know of any... been to Moab, Bozeman, Telluride or Jackson Hole lately? All those towns were similar to Steamboat 20-30 years ago but people, lots of people want our lifestyle. That doesn't make them evil, in fact quite the opposite; they most likely have a ton in common with us. As for the money... it comes with living in a beautiful, highly coveted place. It's not perfect but I still haven't found a better place I want to live and raise my kids. We will be sharing our valley with others rather we want to or not, it would be kind to do it nicely.

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steamvent 7 years, 4 months ago

Brent Boyer: It is unfortunate that this newspaper would provide someone with an obviously bloated ego the space to pen opinions on local issues and then go toe to toe with respondents through endless diatribe in this forum. Any author with confidence and class would write meaningful articles that stand on their own, and when the subject generates local dialog, step aside and learn from it. You wouldn't catch Tom Ross becoming embroiled in follow on excuses for, or explanations of, what he has written. The difference is likely that Tom has earned respect in this community through years of making a contribution, while Rob thinks he can blow in here and use your newspaper to puff himself even more with his wannabe shock jock approach. Pull the plug on this guy before he discredits what many of you have worked so hard to build ... an award winning newspaper, which isn't afraid to express opinion, but then is also professional enough to let that opinion stand on its own merits.

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fishy 7 years, 4 months ago

Well, it is the same newspaper that thinks it's a great idea to run Ann Coulter every week. Maybe Brent and crew are just showing their true nature.

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another_local 7 years, 4 months ago

Both TC and the city benefit from the tournaments. I wonder if TC could double the entry fees to the larger events and cut the number of teams by 20%-30% and keep revenue flat and have some money left over to mitigate impacts?

I also wonder if TC pays a % of sales made on city owned property as a concession fee like the food vendor at Howelson does? They do quite a bit of retail of shirts and bats and such.

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PRoni 7 years, 4 months ago

Wow, this guy is almost as offensive as he is pompous. It is depressing. He epitomizes the new face of Steamboat. What is happening to credibility? It is not just 12 days, it is pandora's box. It is typically the tourists who speed up and down the street with zero regard for the speed limit or anyone around them. Put in the access road and stand by previous agreements.

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foodchain 7 years, 4 months ago

The bottom line is that Mr. Douglas' column should carry no more weight with anyone than the drivel of anonymous posters such as myself until he coughs up some academic cred and proof of investment in this community with last night's chicken bones.

Who IS Robert Douglas anyway and what is his ownership stake in this community?

There is a Robert S. Douglas of Oak Creek who had a Federal Tax Lien filed against him according to Routt County Public records. Oh my! Surely Mr. Douglas will believe that I am rude and vulgar for revealing that which is public. I do, however, believe that one's character and credibility can often be judged by simple quantitative measures such as college grades and credit score.

What are his academic credentials anyway? Kennedy School of Government? Harvard Law? Show me. I am from Missouri.

His assertion that the "Sweet Pea Incident" is studied in law schools across the country comes as breaking news to Professor LaFave. Preposterous!

The "Sweet Pea Incident" did not result in any published case law or judicial precedent. Law is typically taught by the Socratic method, not by small town newspaper bloggings.

Anyone, are there any covenants or other restrictions that run with the land upon which Emerald park sits? Certainly there are many ways to restrict land use over time. The ridiculous attempt to analogize of land use restrictions to national foreign policy decisions cannot be an argument Mr. Douglas overheard while he was trolling the halls of great law schools across the country. Ridiculous it is.

But hey, I am just an anonymous elitist. What do I know other than I can spot cons and bluster when I see them and I enjoy sticking a shank in a windbag (figuratively of coarse).

Idiotic chain yanking is better left to anonymous clowns such as the Foodchain Family. At least we do not take ourselves seriously.

Have a nice darn day y'all.

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Hadleyburg_Press 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob, Thank you for contributing to the dialogue of this community. Your writing is first class. Better here then DC don't ya think?

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob

As an old newspaper buff I have to applaud your ability to "strike a nerve" as of this writing 101 comments posted on you article. Kudos my friend and well done.

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MtnWarlock 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob, As usual, you make some good points and there are some truths a lot of us long timers realize but, don't want to acknowledge! Steamboat has changed and is rapidly changing every day. If TC takes its program else where, we will suffer economic set backs! Like I stated in an earlier blog, the county, city, and state will miss out on all the tax revenues that eventually trickle back into the local's pockets through goods and services and employment. If the jobs dry up, all those "help wanted" signs will disappear in a heart beat! A lot of the folks that come from surrounding communities won't be needed to support the lack of business in Steamboat. During a time of financial unsuitability in this country, I don't believe it would be healthy to shoot ourselves in the foot with banishing what the chamber and the ski corp. have spent mega dollars to build! We could argue that a higher dollar visitor may visit and patronize the local merchants and spend more however, are we now looking to lure the Vail and Aspen type of wealth? I do my fair share of complaining when the streets get full however, I would rather deal with the over crowded bars, restaurants and streets with the common back bone of American, than play host or servant to the rich and filthy! Steamboat is still a family community. If I want to rub elbows with the snobs, I would move to Aspen or Vail! Like I posted before; if I get tired of it here, I won't let the door hit my behind as I move along to another small mountain community that suits my needs! Till then I will deal and make the best of what I have, even though it's not the way I once found it 25 years ago!

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addlip2U 7 years, 4 months ago

Brent,

I agree with several of the bloggers: Pull the plug on Rob "the columnist". He does not contribute to the well being of this reading community. He is too weird, just spewing his ego.

We need a columnist that shows a respect to the citizens and our community.

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Nitro 7 years, 4 months ago

In 2006 the Yampa Valley Economic Development Council contracted with Corona Research to perform a study on the impacts of Triple Crown and builindg a sports complex in northwest Colorado. Here is the link: http://www.yvedc.org/archive/Impact%20Study%20-%20NW%20CO%20Sports%20Complex/Final%20Economic%20Impact%20Study%20Report.pdf

It's BIG - 10 MB, 142 pages, so it may take a while to download. On page 6 of the study, the first scenario discusses what happens if no new facilities are built and Triple Crown leaves - fiscal impact to Steamboat is a loss of over $800,000 in revenue and 206 jobs. Regionwide results in a revenue loss of approximately $1.2 million and 266 jobs.

Perhaps this information may help you evaluate this issue a little more. I am no fan of Triple Crown, but when it comes to the health of our community, we must look at the overall impacts to what we like and what we can tolerate.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

NITRO-Who are the Yampa Valley Economic Development Council? How can they be contacted, how are they funded and who do they represent? If you are going to use them as references please let us know who they are.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

The YVEDC web page has no 'about' page, no mission statement, no list of members, no tax status (profit/non profit), and no source of funding. Sounds like a real 'phantom' group to me. Their credibility should be held in question until we find out who they are. I understand that County Commisioner Doug Monger may be a member. I wonder if he is representing Routt Co. or if he is there on his own behalf. There could be some conflict of interest. The voters should know.

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fish 7 years, 4 months ago

Board members per last posted minutes from meeting.

Ray Beck Doug Monger Cari Hermancinski Forrest Nelson Lorraine Johnson Saed Tayyara

Minutes from Feb. 6, 2008

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another_local 7 years, 4 months ago

The lost revenue quoted in the study cited is just the government's share. The actual revenue to the local economy is something more like $10,000,000 spent and $14,000,000 with secondary impacts of wages being spent locally again. The wages lost would be quite a bit more than the $800K in tax revenue.

The jobs mentioned are full time equavalent jobs meaning 40 hours X 52 weeks. In reality several times that many seasonal jobs would be lost.

It should be noted before someone spouts about a city council person on the board of the entity that sponsored the study, that the study took place well before Cari was even running for council. Perhap what she learned there has shaped her views and motivated her to serve? We can certainly hope so.

Woodsman, there have been several studies over the years, all have shown the same picture; TC does a lot to support the summer economy. You do not have to agree with proposed actions/solutions to current issues, but the facts are not being created to support an agenda. They are what they are regardless of who is paying for the study. That is the reason that, in the end, councils of every political stripe have ended up supporting the TC contracts when they come up.

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scooter 7 years, 4 months ago

If Triple Crown is the only possible avenue for income keeping this town afloat....

Then we've all lost!

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PRoni 7 years, 4 months ago

I think that most of us that are still here have accepted change. We realize that this change fuels our economy. We all live in this paradise and have to share with others. I am the first to admit that growth feeds my family. Some have been here a long time and others (guess who) not so much. I do not accept that if we do not submit to TC's threats that we will commit economic suicide. Every year they have (another) increasing demand upon our infrastructure. That's fine- they are looking out for their club. I think it is high time that we look out for our own club. Is it too much to ask that we have a (single) dedicated field for our youth? Oh I forgot- we already did that and came to an agreement- Remember that Rob? How can we have so much developement ( Thanks Jim C.) and be having this debate? Along with affordable housing, should there not be an infrastructure assessment ? If we want TC to continue to utilize SBS then we should committ to building a dedicated facility. Until that point, families unite and let yourself be heard.

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elk2 7 years, 4 months ago

Rob, you are certainly entitled to your opinion however I get the feeling that many of the people who disagree with you actually come in contact with the TC crowd in a very different way than you do. IE they serve them in restaurants, they clean the streets and condos after them, they pick up their garbage scrape their gum off tables. You are relatively new here and I doubt you have been in the service industry since moving here. I think we have a valid point about the negative impact they sometimes have on SBS.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

I would describe the Yampa Valley Economic Development Council as a 'Self Appointed Special Interest Group' that is trying to direct the economic development of Routt Co. in the direction THEY want it to go. In other words MORE TOURISTS. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't 33,000 Triple Crowners equal about TWICE the population of Routt Co.? What is a county commisioner doing on a sub-committee of the self- serving SSCRA? Is Routt County Government going to become as intertwined with the tourism industry as SS City Government? It is almost impossible to distinguish between the two. What is next 'Routt County/Tourism Corporate Government'?

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mtroach 7 years, 4 months ago

If we run off TC, and tear down STSQ, let's not all complain when the city coffers dry up and our favorite program does unfunded. If traffic problems on pamela are a concern, make one of the conditions of the use of Emerald Fields the paying of SSPD for traffic control, post a Policeman on Pamela lane, inform all TC participants that are playing at the Emerald site that the speed limit is 10 mph on Pamela lane, and SSPD has a zero tollerance program. Anyone speeding will be ticketed by the SSPD, and removed from the tourament by the TC. That would be an easy method of controling the traffic, and keep us from bankrupting the town this summer by running off our cash cow.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

So let me see if I have this right. The 2006 study regarding Tripple Crown referenced by Douglas and others was done by Corona Research and published by the Yampa Valley Economic Development Council, a sub-committee of Steamboat Springs Chamber Resort Association. Is it reasonable to assume that SSCRA paid for the study but did not want it directly related to them so they 'filtered' it through YVEDC?

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Nitro 7 years, 4 months ago

The Yampa Valley Economic Development Council is not a subcommittee of the Chamber. This Council is comprised of elected officials from government agencies within the Yampa Valley - Moffat County, City of Craig, Rio Blanco County, Town of Hayden, Routt County, City of Steamboat Springs.

This link identifies how the Council was formed and their purpose: http://www.yvedc.org/archive/YVEDC_FINAL_2005_revised_IGA_and_Bylaws.pdf

Most of us probably agree that while we don't like SOME of the actions of SOME of the participants in Triple Crown, it is unfair to categorize that ALL of these people pose the problems identified throughout this blog. Are we looking at TC's question "Can we use the Emerald Park fields for a limited number of games?" as mandate for them to bring their business to Steamboat or merely a question. City Council can tell TC they are welcome to return, under the same terms and conditions as in the past, without the use of Emerald Park. The City desires to continue to honor its commitment to the community by allowing only local use of those fields. Where do you think TC will go if we say "No." It's time to call their bluff.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

Well, it is WORSE than I immagined! We ALREADY have an inter-governmental agency to "promote tourism".

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

I hear a few of the Pamela lane flock cry foul when the idea of TC emerald park use gets broached.

If indeed the motivation for emerald in the first place was a separate and secluded group of ballfields for local use during TC tournament time. Then these folks have a fair complaint. If this in fact is the case then let those who were involved in any agreements prove their case. If they do...

Then build a new park elsewhere

During the interim when the fields are needed for TC, bring them on. As long as a suitable expansion is built for TC I am sure we can ask for a little community spirit from the Pamela lane residents if they feel the community is on their side.

You can ask Pamela lane to suck it up but if they had that agreement and we have proof of it we need to pay more than lip service to the prior agreement.

If it walks like duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck...

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okiegal 7 years, 4 months ago

gee rob, you're thin skinned one aren't you?

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okiegal 7 years, 4 months ago

If Triple Crown is the only possible avenue for income keeping this town afloat....

Then we've all lost!

seriously...GOOD GOD THE SKY IS FALLKING>

ROB is an idiot

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shenanigins 7 years, 4 months ago

One more example of town leaders selling our town. Why stop at triple crown? Let's tear up all neighborhoods and build condos. That should bring in more revenue. At some point profit creates more problems.

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ybul 7 years, 4 months ago

I suppose the comment that this is industrial tourism hits the nail on the head. One has to ask the question, are we moving towards what we want as a community or moving away from it.

What is it that the community wants. Maybe moving away from the sales tax is a wise idea as that is the driving force for city revenues, and the fear factor that is used to drive the TC debate.

I think that a holistic map guiding the decision making process for the city should be looked into. Can good jobs be created by utilizing other resources within the Yampa Valley (agriculture, energy, water) and would that be better for the community to provide for a community that is desired, by the people.

The Council should ask what are the goals of the charter of the city, and does the TC move it closer to attaining them or further away. I believe that a goal is that people who work in the boat can afford to live here. Is the drive to increase tourism at all costs running counter to that and in essence pushing out those who make the community what it is and a desirable destination.

If so maybe the current course of action should be reevaluated and changed to move towards a community where real people can live, work and raise a family. Not letting profit at any cost be the end all be all of the decision making process.

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MtnWarlock 7 years, 4 months ago

TCSfriend, Compromise is the devils advocate here! In my previous blog, I mentioned the give an inch; take a mile scenario that could be imminent. It's a fact that Steamboat residents have more people per capital that are educated, than most in the US. We sometimes question if they are running things here!

colowoodsman, Some may beg to differ on the question you ask however, I think a tourist town is one that many purposely travel through to reach other destinations! A resort town is a destination everybody travels to stay at! Then again, they could be one in the same! Different words of the same meaning. "chuckle"

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id04sp 7 years, 4 months ago

Okay, so from comments in another story regarding this subject, it was stated that the Emerald fields were set aside for locals to use when TC had all the other fields occupied.

Using impeccable Steamboat logic, it is apparent to me that anyone who wants TC on Emerald must hate children.

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

A haunting voice drifts in from another thread...

"I think kids are great. You just have to know how to cook them."

id?

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id04sp 7 years, 4 months ago

424,

id04sp = identification #4, steamboat pilot

There are other "id" numbers ready to go when I get banned.

No relationship to Freud's "id."

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

Emeralds like diamonds are graded and used accordingly. This Emerald is of a very poor grade, too many "inclusions." It's more suitable for making sandpaper.............................., 40 grit open coat and it's rubbing lots of folks raw!

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ilovetc 7 years, 4 months ago

All of the people complaining about TC....I suggest you do go talk to the shop owners in town. See if they think there would be a difference. I know that there are some "meanies" in this group of middle class families, but really, aren't there in every group that come to visit Steamboat? I would find it very surprising if there aren't some vicious snobby people that ruin your day during the Ski season too right? Clogging up your Mountain and ruining your day. WAH WAH WAH. Suck it up and listen to the owners of shops. They will tell you that TC is their main source of income during the summer months.

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

IheartTC,

There are meanies everywhere including our beloved Boat.

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

Most locals will tell you it's their main source of aggrevation! But then who are locals to complain, I mean they only live here.

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ilovetc 7 years, 4 months ago

So am I to assume that in all of the months of ski season, you are not complaining to the Chamber about their boozing, taking up space on your roads, in your grocery stores, etc? Well I just find it hard to believe that TC is the worst kind of business to get. I understand you are a local and I obviously am not, but get real, business is business and what does TC do that is so much worse than your beloved skiiers?

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Robert Noel 7 years, 4 months ago

I don't know why everyone is bashing on the Pamela Lane residents. They are not the ones who made explicit promises to insure that our kids would have commercial free park use. This appears to be another case of or city government doing the old bait and switch. I have been here for 30 years and have seen this move too many times to mention. Is it really true that if those 2 fields are not utilized then TC wil shrivel up and go away? Also for some of you who haven't been here long, When the Hampton was being built the devloper was willing to sell the access to the field for $1 for considerations from the building department. Denied Leave those fields alone and take your ball somewhere else for 12 days.

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TCSFriend 7 years, 4 months ago

I just cannot understand how a youth baseball tournament can cause so much anger. These are kids and families. not bikers, or porn conventions. basicly TCS brings you revenue, but along wth it may come some problems. Join together as a community of Colorado and find a solution that both parties are willing to deal with. Its called compromise.

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TCSFriend 7 years, 4 months ago

or did you guys not learn that in school up there.

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Robert Noel 7 years, 4 months ago

We do things a little different up here than you folks down there, but I soppose you know that and thats why you want to come up here.

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ilovetc 7 years, 4 months ago

Wow flyfisher1, that was deep. I find it interesting that you do not respond to any of the comments we have made, just pick up on the one thing you can retaliate against

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Robert Noel 7 years, 4 months ago

ilovetc I'm not saying I want TC gone. We all enjoy the income from them in some way. As far as all of the dribble that has come from so many who are not from here or have moved her recently just doesn't merit argument.I am just saying our government should stick to its promises as that is all we have to hold them accountable. This is in fact our community and our children being raised here.

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stmbtprof 7 years, 4 months ago

gladys you ignorantsl@#**t intheowrdsofjane curtain..thisdidnt usetobeatourist town....andmanyofusdo NOTmakeurlivingfromtourism...itisyou andtourons who have ruined this place....long live Jim Engleken

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contrarian 7 years, 4 months ago

Right on stmbtprof--we need to go back to before 1963 when the resort opened and this became a tourist town. Let's drink some Geritol and remember the good old days.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

Would someone please define the terms 'tourist town' and 'resort town'. Almost every town in America has some tourists at one time or another. Do these terms indicate special 'legal status' for towns so designated. Is there a certain ratio of locals/tourists that creates a 'tourist town? Do the citizens get to VOTE on whether or not they want to BE a tourist town or is it more like a 'hostile take over'? Steamboat is becoming a victim of it's own success. Marketing brings not just more tourists, but more investors/speculators who want to 'cash in' on that success and they in turn demand more marketing and city services. Mike Retzloff, a local and a retired economist of the US Forest Service has recently stated that Steamboat receives nearly 3% of ALL tourist dollars spent in Colorado. That is easily MORE than their fair share. Steamboat is at a 'crossroads'. It is in danger of destroying the very qualities that tourism is trying to exploit.

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

"or did you guys not learn that in school up there?" First of all that statement demonstrates some of the arrogance that many TCers (not all) bring with them to the 'Boat and is in part a reason why many would wish you would go elsewhere. That said, were I you I would take care not to compare sheepskins with some of us country bumpkins living up here, you might just discover that there are some very well educated hillbillies living here. Not all TCers are rude and obnoxious and its too bad that those that are give that appearance to all. Your sense of "entitlement" because you spend your $$ to come here is a major part of the problem. Maybe if you thought of yourself as a paying "guest" our perception of YOU would not be what it is.

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btheball 7 years, 4 months ago

424now observed in this blog: "The amount of work needed to modify the access to Emerald park's parking lot is minimal. There is already an acces almost directly to the the lot from lincoln.

Google Earth, Pamela lane, Steamboat Springs, Co.

See what I mean?"

and another_local has summarized several scenarios including: "Changing the access to Emerald would be great. The access to the south of the Hampton Inn would involve moving the at-grade rail crossing or tunneling (5M) under the rail line. It is not possible to add another at-grade crossing. The rail road will allow this but will not pay for it. The problem lies in both the expense and the fact that the stoplight on 40 could not be moved since it connects to the road on the other side of 40... So it can be done but it is a less than perfect solution."

The railroad will allow it so it's left to the art of negotiation... It seems to me we (Council/Chamber) underestimates the desirability of Steamboat in all we have to offer. I don't think TC would/could just find another venue so sweet, and if so...Goodbye and Good Luck.

Tell TC they can use the park for the 12 days only after they pay the expense of changing the access point so to not adversely impact Pamala Lane. It is the only long term solution to Pamela Lane - and keeping promises - which is important in the short and long-term -

and ties into the by-pass discussion/solution. Tell them we are looking at the larger picture and then do.

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ilovetc 7 years, 4 months ago

I have been coming up to Steamboat with the Triple Crown tournaments for at least 10 years. Steamboat is a beautiful place and that is why it has come to be the town that Triple Crown wants to contribute to as much as they take. We contribute to youth sports and the upkeep of ballfields, etc. As locals of Steamboat, I am sure you see it's charm and why it is such a great place to visit. As an outsider, I can see the dilema in having things disrupted and a few bad eggs, but overall, it is a good environment and very good people that help support some slow times during the summer.

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almostlocal 7 years, 4 months ago

It is so funny to me that according to many who have been contributing to this debate that it is the Triple Crowners that are speeding down Lincoln Avenue and throwing their garbage out their windows. I have not seen a Triple Crown player in the Steamboat area since August 2007. Is all this trash that is popping up out of the snow banks as they melt left over from then? And what about all the people I saw today speeding down Lincoln Avenue and running red lights and not yielding to pedestrians who have the walk sign? Are they Triple Crowners, coming in a little early to "take over our town"? We can't even blame the ski tourists now for the crowded streets and aggressive driving, can we?

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

ilovetc, Now that is the attitude that the folks of Steamboat welcome and encourage. Unfortunately, not all who visit the 'Boat and even some that reside here don't appreciate this community. Your fellow (not gender specific) poster rather than debate chose to insult members of this community. Those are exactly the type of individuals that everyone can do without and I'm not just talking about Steamboat. If those who visit would act in a way that they would expect visitors or guests to act in their communities there would be much less resentment from the local populace. Being courteous and respectful of others should have no geographical boundries. Driving within posted limits, not being rude at shops and restaurants, maybe picking up after someone else that has left a mess are all examples of good citizenship no matter where you are from or who you are. Also contraints from within your own organization would go far in normalizing relations with the locals. Realizing that demanding the unreasonable and not continually threatening to pull out of Steamboat when you (not you specifically) don't get you way wouldn't hurt TC's cause either. There are slobs and ignorant people in all places and it is up to each and everyone of us to police our own ranks whether it be here or in someone elses house. All I'm saying is that a little respect, consideration, and courtesy for the places we live and visit go a long way in determining whether or not you or we find ourselves to be welcome. For what it's worth, that's my $.02

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shortbus 7 years, 4 months ago

Mr Douglas,

While I respect your opinion I have to disagree with you on several fronts.

RobDouglas writes: "I, along with millions of Americans, grew up on a street far busier than Pamela Lane. In my case, a busy intersection with a far smaller yard than any on Pamela Lane"

If you knew the the history of Pamela Lane you would know that this neighborhood was a cul-de-sac and only changed to a limited access street later. Most urban planners would design parks and other high traffic areas such as this with multiple egress points thus limiting the load on feeder streets that were not designed for higher volumes of traffic. At the end of the day there are 24 homes on Pamela Lane that are impacted. If I were a resident of one of the 24 homes I too would be FURIOUS.

Assuming I built my home on the street it was a cul-de-sac when I purchased and built... traffic limited only to my neighbors and their visitors. Although one could argue that the 24 home owners should have done all in their power to demand multiple access points (which appears to be administratively impossible) However they did ask for concessions and they should be respected.

RobDouglas writes: "Engelken challenged the integrity of City Council and demanded the council uphold promises Engelken - as a member of a previous council - made to ban Triple Crown from Emerald Park. But, to demand that any legislature be bound by the actions of a previous legislature is sheer folly at best."

I can show you multiple instances in other locales where municipalities have been sued by residents and lost as a result of prior promises that they chose not to uphold. It could be codified in statute... guess the residents were naive to take the City (and an elected representiative) at its word.

There have been multiple posters that have had what seem to be very viable solutions to all parties' concerns. The movement of the railroad crossing seems to be a pretty solid one. From a traffic flow standpoint it also has many benefits for controlling traffic as there is already a left-turn lane off of Lincoln into the facilities. Considering the parking lot has spaces for 120 vehicles (clearly not enough for four fields) and overflow tends to go onto Pamela Lane this would (should TC subcontract with Hampton Inn) help minimize parking in the neighborhood as well.

I don't think that anyone can argue that TC benefits the Boat. The question is at what cost for that benefit and would other less disruptive visitors provide the same, if not more benefit.

Personally, I avoid town when I know TCers are in town.

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fish 7 years, 4 months ago

The true issue is not one of getting rid of triple crown. I think that we can all see that they do benefit the community, the question is whether or not to give them access to fields that they have previously not been allowed to use because those fields were reserved for local use. Triple crown you are welcome to come and play and enjoy the area but we reserve the right to keep a few small fields free from tournament play and keep them for use by local kids. How can this be considered to be anti Triple Crown or anti tourist. How can anyone feel that locals are being unreasonable. I just don't get it. This is like inviting someone to come and visit and giving them the best rooms in the house to stay in while they are there, but keeping at least one bed for yourself during their stay. Must we really be required to camp out in the backyard during your visit.

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raver 7 years, 4 months ago

Not everyone who lives here depends on tourists$$$ to make a living,and perhaps without TC we would have more respectful people visiting,I know of many people who stay away BECAUSE of triple crown,Steamboat naturally attracts people because of it.s beauty and outdoor recreation activities,if we lost triple crown,people would still come.Emerald fields are for the local youth,and I am tired of the almighty buck worshippers telling me what I can do in my hometown!

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

The bottom line is that if TC and SSCHRA had any respect for SS and it's people they would not even ASK for the Emerald fields much less threaten to pull out if they don't get them!

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contrarian 7 years, 4 months ago

I agree fish! Now that the topic is on the table, we should start a list of which ski trails, hiking and biking trails, camp grounds and fishing spots that outsiders should not be allowed to use. Any suggestions in these categories? Let's form a committee to demand which areas to block outsiders from!! We live here they don't. So we should get to decide!! What good is public land if we can't decide which members of the public can use it?

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

Whoa there contra! Easy now.

You suggest a decidedly nimby approach to a simple problem.

Build a new field to accommodate TC in the interim let them use Emerald. Any locals only approach to anything will only searve to allienate visitors to our pretty little tourist trap.

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elk2 7 years, 4 months ago

I think Sandy Evans-Hall get's paid per ball player. The more teams, the bigger her paycheck.

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seabirth 7 years, 4 months ago

contrarian, visitors can use emerald fields, just not in a commercial manner.

making this about closing off areas is silly, and comparing a tourism business and individual tourists is apples and oranges.

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contrarian 7 years, 4 months ago

I don't know 424now. I think fish has a point. fish says: This is like inviting someone to come and visit and giving them the best rooms in the house to stay in while they are there, but keeping at least one bed for yourself during their stay. Must we really be required to camp out in the backyard during your visit.

I agree--if we can keep visitors off Emerald, why not keep these out of towners off our other good spots? Why should we share with our best park with triple crown? What gives them the right to use public areas? For that matter, why do visiting skiers get to ski on our best trails. Why do hunters get to use some of the best camp sites. How come visitors get to hike on our best trail? We live here. They don't. These outsiders need to know theri place and know that the best of Steamboat is for those that live here. People on Pamela Lane should be able to decide who gets to use those public fields and we should be able to keep visitors off our best places.

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stompk 7 years, 4 months ago

Softball was named that for a reason.

Steamboat has a long history of family events like softball, where the ball is softer, and bigger, so that kids could play with adults in the same game, making it a family participation event, focused on bringing the family together, and having fun.

With Triple Crown, it's all serious and super competitive.

Why don't they just play hardball?

My point is, that it doesn't bring the fun family type of spirit, but a bunch of SUV driving ego driven dad's telling their son's it's all about winning.

Never cared for it.

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fish 7 years, 4 months ago

Sorry I came up with a better idea. I will just buy a Triple Crown franchise and help them bring even more teams to Steamboat. If you can't beat them, join em.

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fish 7 years, 4 months ago

If Triple Crown, a business gets to use the ball fields for these days, then I want use of these fields the following weekend for my business venture. Now come up with an excuse as to why I should be denied use since you have just given permission to Triple Crown. Oh what you can't. Didn't think so.

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

The solution to all the ruckus is quite simple. HONOR the long standing agreement concerning Emerald and just tell TC that as in the past Emerald is "off limits" for comercial use. Surely if TC wants to promote good relations with the people of Steamboat they will understand that a deal is a deal. I wonder how they would feel if the Chamber or the Council broke a deal with them? That's right, they would probably sue. Maybe it's time for those opposed to consider that very same path. Maybe file an injunction based on past practice. Maybe there is an attourney in town that would donate his or her services for the good of the community. If TC wants to be looked at as a welcomed interest in SB then they need to realize that life is a two way street not just their way.

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

To ALL TCers Here's a thought issued in the form of a challenge.

How about some of you TCers out there contacting the TC organizers and suggesting that they honor the long standing agreement placing Emerald "off limits" for commercial use? It would go a long way in improving relations between your organization and the local population. Think of the POSITIVE publicity that you and your organization would receive. I'm sure the Pilot would jump all over a story like that.

So what do you say TCers, are you up to the challenge? Lets see if any of you will step up to the plate. Here's YOUR chance to try and improve relations with this community. Tell your organizers that it is just not worth the adverse publicity and the ill will created by TC's insistance that they use this field! Any takers??

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contrarian 7 years, 4 months ago

colobob: To help us, please post a copy of the agreement placing Emerald off limit to commercial use. It would help us if those of you with a copy of that agreement would post it here so we can see the language.

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

contrarian, It's my understanding that this was a verbal agreement. Perhaps you could pose that question to Jim Engelken. I believe (although I could be mistaken) he was there when the agreement was made. No better place to get info than from the horses mouth.

Jim? You out there?

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ColoradoNative 7 years, 4 months ago

Any local ranchers out there willing to build a complex on their property?

TC can pony up the cash.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

ColoBob,

From 1992, thru present, there are numerous quotes from the City Council Minutes of "Emerald Access is our numbr one priority", etc. There are also a few comments such as K. Bennet's "Its a City Road Going to a City Park."

There are no "official proclomations" or resolutions....just comments and "friendly neighbor assuring" that, over the years has proven to be, well dishonest if not illegal.

A review of the Emerald for Youth in Ord 1511 also shows no "absolute legally binding" proclomations or interpretations as to "what they ment".....again just wanting the public to take a good neighbor comment while giving a wink here and there.

Hence the distrust.

Along the years you'll find a lot of "City Council went into executive session to discuss issues that may be open for negotiation"......that's where the discussion took place.

Its sad.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

424....That's funny, lol

AL,

I encourage you to do your homework.

Read the proposed contract including the mitigations for Emerald.

Learn the history of Emerald and Pamela Lane (Trafalger Homes)

Ask yourslf when LL Coaches can practice their Teams.

What is the TCS business model. How does it differ from their competition and what does this do to Steamboat.

What was the results of the economc study (YVEDC) and is there a reasonable chance additional fields will be built in two years.

After doing your research ask yourself not "can we accomodate" but "why should we accomodate"?

Best

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

Native,

Are you saying "Build and they will come."

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another_local 7 years, 4 months ago

So much wrong information out there.... (please bear with the paraphrased quotes to save space)

"120 parking spaces clearly not enough for 4 fields"... huh? that comes to 15 cars per team. With 15 players on a team they should might just squeeze it in.

"Keeping some fields for the use of local kids".... the local kids sports organizations have already gone on record stating that the proposed use DOES NOT conflict with any scheduled local use.

"Not everyone in Steamboat depends on tourists for a living"..... no doubt there are a couple of people in town that commute to the coal mine in Hayden to work but there are very few others who are more than one or two steps from a tourist dollar.

Suggestions:

Allow the use of Emerald for the 6 hours per day for 12 days for the next two years with some conditions:

  1. Six hours means six hours. No early arrival and everybody out. Games to start at 8:30 and end at 1:30 to accomodate this.

  2. Required car pooling. Issue parking permits for 10 vehicles per team. Teams who violate it are out of the tournement.

  3. Community service officer controlling traffic on Pamela lane. TC to pay this expense.

  4. Schedule the same group of 8 teams there for the whole time each day rather than other teams in and out. They can all play each other. Cars come in and out once.

  5. Written agreement that after the two years it is over.

  6. $20,000 contribution to improvements at Emerald field.

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Harvey Lyon 7 years, 4 months ago

another local....

You are so ill informed and ignorant your eyes must be blue and you hair must be blonde....

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another_local 7 years, 4 months ago

stirrin, just for the sake of entertainment, would you consider pointing our my errors?

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424now 7 years, 4 months ago

Local,

stir obviously has been spending far to long in the company of some very poor examples of blond haired blue eyed intellect. That just might be why like to be so close to trouble. He can't point out errors that don't exist.

Stir,

I am currently beyond blonde in deference to my hairs loosing battle with my forehead.

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colowoodsman 7 years, 4 months ago

a_l, "very few others"???? So that means the 'the tourist dollars' rule and everyone else should just suffer in silence,eh?

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

I have a question that maybe a TCer could help me with. Does your organization have a mission statement? For example; "Dedicated To Promote Good Sportsmanship Through Organized Team Play." Before answering be aware that there are those who will take the opportunity attack it regardless of what it is. Just curious.

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colobob 7 years, 4 months ago

After reviewing the site I suppose the next logical question to ask is who is the franchise owner for the Steamboat Springs area followed by are there any local partners and if so who? The one final thing that I find interesting is a fellow bloggers remarks about a certain city official that sells t-shirts at some of the tournaments. All facts (or allegations) that I'm guessing would be of interest to many. stirrinup, It is sad, sad that the almighty greenback that has the ability to do so much good yet also has the potential to cause so much harm or in this case so much discord in the community.

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steamboatyahoo 7 years, 4 months ago

I see from that link that steamboat is a "dream-come-true" destination championships". So if TC can't use Emerald fields does Grand Junction become more "dreamy"? GJ is one of the places that TC says is courting them. Good riddance and have fun tubing the ditch that runs through GJ all you TCers.

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