Michelle Lichtenfels: Support rec center

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— After growing up in Steamboat, I know personally the struggle teens face to find something fun to do on a Friday or Saturday night. Like it or not, the mountain is closed at four o'clock and starting then, most of the teens here have nothing better to do with their time than participate in activities most adults seem to find so irresponsible and wrong.

I would like to remind the voting adults of our community that it is in your power to create safe environments for us. As you go to vote, please know that should the rec center fail to pass, you may think a stand-alone teen center is an option. Our town has tried this, like The Dock, and failed. No teen will want to go to a center designated for youth because, in teen minds, that is not cool. We want to be treated like adults, like the maturing citizens that we are, and be able to go to a teen center that is part of a community recreation center. This would have something for everyone, and all families would be welcomed and included along with the teens. That small difference will be the weight that will tip the balance on the scale of success or failure in the plan.

Another issue that I personally am facing is the fact that in order for me to pursue the one sport I love, I would have to drive to Craig all winter in order to swim for their high school. It is somewhat humiliating to have to swim for our school's rival simply because our town is lacking the facility needed to have our own diving and swim team. With Steamboat High School students driving over to dive for the Moffat County High School as well as swim on their team, the argument that there is not a need for an indoor pool and diving well is immediately diminished. I understand that when we get a rec center I will have graduated, but I would like to hope that my 9-year-old sister could have the option I always have wished I had.

Please think about the future. Think about the future you see in your life and the one you would like to see in ours. The current available facilities will no longer fulfill the needs of families and youth in our town, let alone the rest of the adult community. This is very clear. A community recreation center is the solution to this growing need and I hope that you can see that and act as responsible, educated adults and give us what we as teens, as families and as a community deserve. Vote yes on 2B and 2C, for those of us who cannot vote but are eager to be heard.

Thank you.

Michelle Lichtenfels, age 16

Steamboat Springs High School junior

Comments

addlip2U 6 years, 9 months ago

It has been reported that the swimming pool in Craig may be closing since they do not have $100,000 to keep it running.

So why would Steamboat want to build a pool? It is a lost cost. Those that want the indoor pool should pull their resources and keep the swimming pool in Craig open with just a mere investment of $100,000 instead with our $34 millions.

Please review this logic and convince me why we should not vote NO on the rec center.

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RoxyDad 6 years, 9 months ago

I wonder what people will think when they go to the new Rec center for some swimming laps and there is a sign posted "swimming closed temporarily for team practice."

This is what will happen to the rec center. The local schools get the swimming area closed for their practice sessions.

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panky 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle, it sounds like your personal problems will be fixed with a babysitting/teen hangout/indoor rec facility. No more driving to Craig for you!

You couldn't live here all your life (or even a week) and not be aware that people commute to and from Craig (and Hayden, Oak Creek, P-Burg and beyond) EVERY day and these folks have done so for YEARS?

If you can't stand life here without an indoor pool, you could consider living somewhere that has one. That's called "freedom." It's what we've fought wars over and you have that privlege. Embrace that right and find your dream town.

If there's no consensus that this proposed facility is a NECESSITY to the community, it will be defeated in the election.

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lowerprofile 6 years, 9 months ago

That's right Michelle "Freedom" means that you have every right to fight for what you feel is the right thing to do for your community. Many adults have re-located their families here because it is their dream town and good for you for putting your views on paper and making them known. I commend you for being SOLUTION oriented!

It wasn't so long ago when some downtown business owners were all up in arms because of the teens loitering outside of their businesses, "scaring" away customers. I don't remember hearing them come up with a solution other than the police and throwing up their arms with a "woe is me" attitude. Here is a SOLUTION for the problem - hopefully they will support it too.

VOTE YES ON 2A & 2B!!!

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Books 6 years, 9 months ago

I just read the anti rec center ad. Wow, how misleading can you get? At least the rec center people are running an honest campaign.

The biggest error is Cost to build - $6,600.00 per man woman and child. Like each family of four has to pay $26,400.

The tax is a property tax not a head count tax.

At least 45% of RE valuation in Steamboat is second homeowners who are not counted in your total population numbers. So right of the bat, your head count numbers are off by at least 45%.

The tax is based on valuation of real estate in Steamboat. It's $33.00 per $100K. That comes out to:

500k house :$165.00 per year

200k condo:. $66.00 per year

50k trailer: ..$16.56 per year

For a family of four, in a 500k house, your per person method is really more like $825 spread out over the next 20 years.

That is 1/8 th of what your ad claims.

Even if we use the total loan cost it still only comes out to $3,300 per family living in a 500k house spread out over 20 years. Not $26,400.

Still, that is 1/8 th of what your ad claims.

And the 66 million includes financing costs over the next 20 years. Anyone who has ever purchased a home in the last 25 years has received documentation that would have spelled out the total cost including financing over the life of the loan. If we all used your logic no one would ever buy a house.

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Books 6 years, 9 months ago

Did I get something wrong? The ad in the paper says it costs $6,600 for every man, woman and child. That sounds like a family to me. Even a family of three would be 19,800. That's not even close. The tax is based on valuation not head count.

The average family living in a 500k house would start out paying $165 per year. $165 x 20 years is still only $3,300.

And that is not even right because as all of these construction projects (mostly 2nd home) get completed the total valuation will nearly double and the $165 will drop substantially. As more projects get built and we annex more land, total valuation goes up and the tax drops even lower.

It's the second homeowners and the multi million houses that are going to be picking up most of the bill.

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addlip2U 6 years, 9 months ago

"It's the second homeowners and the multi million houses that are going to be picking up most of the bill."

Why should they? ... for you the selfish people that want something for nothing? If you want it so much, buy the land and build it yourself. Those that do not want it and will not use it also don't want to pay for it. This is democracy, NOT socialism.

I already voted: NO:)

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Jon Casson 6 years, 9 months ago

Addlip....of course its a democracy...you voted, didnt you?

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

Beaten? The only people that will be beaten are the people that will have to pay for this thing if it goes through. I'll wait for the poll results to come in then we can determine who the winners and losers are. Hopefully the losers won't be the non-elite, the taxpayers without the big money loopholes. And quite frankly it isn't about winning or losing. It's not a game, it's about living within ones means and not trying to live within someone elses. Take a look at all the current and proposed expenditures that are facing this community now and in the near future. The problem here is that some folks fail miserably in basic economics. A rec. center would be great if it were a private venture that could actually support itself. Otherwise it's nothing but a perpetual money pit deeper than a Black Hole. Winning or losing? I think its more about priorities, common sense, and controlling runaway spending.

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twostroketerror 6 years, 9 months ago

Ah to flog a dead horse, only this ones not dead yet, just badly limping. Michelle, I won't pay for your day care. It's your parents responsibility, not mine. Look at the skate park kids. They wanted a skate park, got their poop in a group, and they've got the cash to do it. How much fund raising have you done for this project? $66 million so the boat brats don't have to feel 'uncool' about going to a teen center? Grow up.

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elphaba 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle - I agree - learning to use your time creatively and responsibly is your challange as you grow - not mine.

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jlkar 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle, at least you have a vehicle in which to travel to Craig in and parents who seem to support your passion. Keep your chin up and teach your fellow peers about equality, friendship and respect and try to enjoy the time you GET to spend living your passion and realize the good and originality in the people you meet. Remember, freedom you do have, but things in life are not owed to you. The people of Steamboat are "acting as responsible, educated adults" by questioning where their money is being spent and if there are better ways in which to fund this project. There are two sides to every story.

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jlkar 6 years, 9 months ago

oh, and lower-profile and books and the rest of the folks that post on here for the rec center: your immaturity shines through when you cheer each other on like high schoolers. you are not entitled to our votes nor to our money.

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JQPUBLIC 6 years, 9 months ago

One of the major problems in the USA today is actually in one of her statements... "I hope that you can see that and act as responsible, educated adults and give us what we as teens, as families and as a community deserve.".... Kids (and some adults) expect to be GIVEN everything. If the teens can't make responsible recreational choices without the public paying for their state of the art facilities, then what they deserve are jobs. A job would give them something to do and possibly teach them a little responsibility and the value of a dollar.

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

Easy on Michelle folks. You have to give her credit for being responsible enough to submit her article and voice an opinion.

It would be nice young lady if we could all have the things we want in life but unfortunately thats just not the way life is. The reality is that the rec. center is just too big a burden to impose on the taxpayers. I hope you do well with your swimming but do yourself a favor and put greater effort in your education. Your education will carry you through life, swimming most probably will not.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

There ya go, Michelle: don't have any hopes or dreams to aspire to Olympic level training unless it's for what others think you should be training for. You will only be dragged down by them. In other words, nobody in Steamboat cares about what anyone else wants, but they'll put on a smile and wish you the best while kicking you to the curb. That being said, I hope you make good on any aspirations and turn your nose up toward bringing money back to Steamboat.

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mfishon1 6 years, 9 months ago

I just got a good giggle from the comment above where someone said "At least the rec center people are running an honest campaign."

I noticed that the BIG proponent ads in the paper and the fancy mailing on the "vote Yes for 2B&C" I just received DON'T mention one single thing about usage fees. After talking with my neighbors about the mailing they made the incorrect assumption that the rec center will be free for everyone to use. Interesting?? No mention of usage fees in the proponents section of the election guide, in any ads or in any mailings. Now it couldn't possibly be that the proponents are trying to decieve the voters out there so I guess we can only blame this on the marketing company that made up the ads...obviously they unintentionally left off all that usage fee stuff.

This reminds of the current sub-prime mortgage mess we are in....overwhelm the rationality of people by placing unending desires in front of them....and then later on inform them of the costs/debt they just put themselves into.

The even more funny thing about this was my neighbor at that point had decided to vote "no" on it because he was more pissed off that tourists were going to get to use this rec center for free when it was the locals who were the only ones paying for it via taxes. After I broke the news to him that both tourists and locals will have to pay at the door he was somewhat relieved for a second...but then he realized that he was being forced to pay twice (taxes and usage fees) and that sent him into another frenzy.

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle, apparently to some my earlier remarks need a little clarification. DO aspire to achieve greatness in whatever you do. Just don't put all your eggs in one basket. Some of the most successful athletes in olympic, college, and pro sports are successful in part because they understood the importance of getting a good education. These same athletes also realized that sports careers don't last forever but a good education will. Contrary to what some would imply I only wish you the best in all aspects of life. M___ you surprise me!

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nxoby36 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle I am sure that many of the same folks who choose to vote NO on 2B & 2C would be more than happy to help ($) you in your quest to compete in the Olympics . This community has always been supportive of our young athletes . Our High School is where you need a pool . Maybe that should be your goal .

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

Colobob- it wasn't directed just at you, but everyone. While I don't know Michelle personally, I know she has been on the swim team for a few years. She's very good and this is a way for her and others like her (since she'll have most likely graduated high school) in the future. She has the opportunity to excel at something that might give her more recognition from people than an English degree, and maybe bring that recognition home. Maybe...and I'm only guessing here, but maybe a swimming scholarship helps someone get that education you want her to also have.

Not just you, but basically everyone else is telling her she and her ilk are not worth it because it hurts their particular bottom line. She even gets told she's lucky to have a car. I like that you admonished others for being too hard on her. Unfortunately, I thought it should be hit home just a little harder. And more, what I said still won't matter. Everyone finds a way to justify it, just as proponents find their justification.

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nxoby36 6 years, 9 months ago

WOW Kielbasa talk about spin ! No one has told Michelle she is not worth it !

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jlkar 6 years, 9 months ago

So she isn't lucky to have a car and means to do what she has a passion for? That was not telling her SHE isn't worth it Matthew, so don't be so quick to judge. The point is to honor what you do have access to. Not to tell voting adults to be responsible and educated by voting yes. Should we feel sorry for her or the other members of the swim team because they don't have a pool at the high school. I grew up here in the boat with kids who went to college on scholarships for swimming... none quite made it to the Olympics but the Craig and the H&R pool made it so that they had the means. This young woman should be commended for writing the letter but that does not merit her righteousness for a desire to have a pool.

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bikegirl 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle has written a mature and eloquent letter,she is articulate and thoughtful in her writing.I am glad to know that our community has intelligent and healthy teens who are willing to stand up for their beliefs.Michelle is a friend of my teen,and whether you support the rec. center or not,she is not deserving of crude personal attacks.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

Panky says: "If you can't stand life here without an indoor pool, you could consider living somewhere that has one. That's called "freedom." It's what we've fought wars over and you have that privlege. Embrace that right and find your dream town.

If there's no consensus that this proposed facility is a NECESSITY to the community, it will be defeated in the election." Boy, tell a 16yo about fighting wars is what gave her the privilege to move on her own accord. Nice- tell a 16yo to move.

Addlip2u says: "... for you the selfish people that want something for nothing? If you want it so much, buy the land and build it yourself. Those that do not want it and will not use it also don't want to pay for it." So- telling a "selfish" 16yo to buy the land and build it herself. Such warmth in that post.

2stroke- "How much fund raising have you done for this project? $66 million so the boat brats don't have to feel 'uncool' about going to a teen center? Grow up." (elphaba agrees, evidently) Brats! She was called a "BRAT."

Yeah, nxoby36 & jklar- all those comments are just so encouraging, aren't they? No, they're pretty mean-spirited comments to a 16yo kid, calling her and her friends brats because they want to be able to enjoy a multi-use facility in the town they live in. Instead, she also gets told that she's lucky to have a car and parents who support her, like that's not the norm in Steamboat. Good one, guys. Insult parents and kids alike in the same sentence...all the while smiling as they show you the door. No wonder people stay anonymous on this forum- it's the only way to degrade someone else's kid and feel good about yourself doing it. Congratulations!

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pattiworsley 6 years, 9 months ago

Well said Matthew Stoddard!

I do not often read many of the posts on this website as so many users post mean spirited and thoughtless comments. Many of you have hit an all time low. Personally attacking a 16 year old for her opinion is right there at the bottom. To all of you that hide under the cloak of your Username while bashing each other, why don't you step up to the plate and let us know who you really are.

Congratulations to you Michelle, you at least have the guts to form an opinion and sign your name to it.

Patti Worsley

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

Thanks, Patti. I know your son, Cole (I believe), is a strong swimmer, also. One of the stronger swimmers, if I'm correct. I'm pretty sure I met him thru Cody P. last year. I hope he can continue to excel with his times!

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oldskoolstmbt 6 years, 9 months ago

i agree with nxoby36!! the school should have a pool..then maybe some of the less fortunate who can't afford swim team at the rec facilitie(s) could participate in their passion as well..let it be available to ALL the kids, not just the wealthy!

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herman 6 years, 9 months ago

Michelle Good for you for at least believing in a cause. Unfortunely the kids that need a place to go will never go to any place that is not related to alcohol. Instead they will be up behind the water treatment plant or on buff pass. It is interesting that the aticle on teen drinking and the rec center cross paths. I support your efforts but cannot support the funding of this facility. That being said don't loose site of your goals.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

And now Herman basically says that since Michelle is interested in the Rec Center, she's basically alone since all her buddies will be drinking. Good job, Herman! Make Michelle feel oooohhhhh so much better about wanting to do something that doesn't involve alcohol. Herman knows you better than you know yourself, Michelle. Welcome to Adulthood.

Another warm & fuzzy post, eh nxoby & jklar? That's how you motivate people, right? ("Good for you for at least believing in a cause..." as the door hits you in the butt.)

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MichelleLichtenfels 6 years, 9 months ago

Hey all, Michelle here. When writing this article I intended only to state reasons why it made sense for us to have one here. It disappoints me that I would personally be attacked simply for having an opinion. I would like to clarify a few things that some of you got wrong: 1. Craig is closing BECAUSE it is at the highschool and there are not enough swimmers. Here, although there are alot of swimmers, having it at the high school makes no sense. 2. My personal problem? It is the personal problem of many other teens in Steamboat, not just mine. 3. How do any of you know if I have a car? Maybe you do which is why you will not put your name, because you know me and are therefore only eager to bash me under cover. Grow up. 4. I WILL move the minute I can. However, as stated, I am 16. Thank you for your intelligence, telling me, at 16, to move. It is astounding. What a perfect solution. 5. I never said I needed a day care. I said that it could give teens like myself something to do when everyone else decides to be stupid and drink. 6. I do not expect to be given things in life. I would pay the taxes if I could. But I can't which is why I am trying to explain to you that many of us teens WOULD but just because we can not does not mean we do not want this or do not want our voice to be heard. Sorry if wanting something makes me a brat. 7. What on EARTH does any of this have to do with my education? Are you saying that what I should focus on is that? Because, for your information, I am enrolled in pre-calculus as a junior, and have had a 4.0 G.P.A. since the sixth grade. If you don't know, I am not spoiled. And as most of you are probably older people, you will not have recently applied to college. It is expensive and being smart will not pay for my tuition. 8. I feel like I am lowering myself to your level. But I thought about it all day and decided that I do not deserve to be personally attacked simply for having an opinion. This bashing will not prevent my stating my opinion and simply makes the people writing it look foolish.

So that is all I have to say. But please, if you want to attack me or my opinion, at least own up to it. Be proud of what you believe. Do not be rude to me if you are not willing to own up. That is all I ask. I will be happy to meet or talk to any of you who take issue with this. Or who would like to know more specifically why I feel as I do. I would be happy to talk to anyone who has questions. Look me up in the phone book. My number is under my name.

Michelle Lichtenfels

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

Don't think anyone could have said that better, Michelle!

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nxoby36 6 years, 9 months ago

Gee everybody look "Matthew" is able to do something besides spin . I guess it's alright with him if the folks that are living on the edge of their income have to move out because of this boondoggle (can you say affordable housing and tax increase in the same breathe ?) I guess they don't count ! You still haven't convinced me we need another tax for something the majority will never use ! I don't care how you feel ! Give me some adult reasoning why others should forced pay for your play house when they can't even afford a car for their own kids ! Oh yea the reason we don't post our names is so some uneducated name calling fool doesn't vandalize our homes just because we don't agree with his Marxist ideas .

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

I guess the education part of this response was meant for me. I've gone back and re-read my comments several times and I fail to see what was so offensive in my remarks. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe its just a matter of perception. My opinion as far as the rec. center goes remains the same. Its just too big a burden to put on the taxpayer when not all who are being asked to pay for it will benefit from it. Common sense tells me that tax dollars should be used for the good of the entire community. Unless this thing can be privatized it's an unrealistic venture laden with hidden and perpetual costs. In closing I'll ad as others have stated before me that if a pool and diving well are to be constructed it should be done at the high school. At least then more would have the opportunity to use it and funding would be less of a problem. As the proposal stands I believe that No on 2B & 2C is the appropriate vote to cast. That said, I'm out! "say good night, Gracie."

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emmabean1110 6 years, 9 months ago

Good God everyone. Lay off her. How is a COMMUNITY REC CENTER not going for the good of the entire community? I have a feeling that just MIGHT be what they mean when they say community. It is ridiculous to expect a 16yo to be able to get off school at 3:35, drive safely to craig in order to get there at four, train until 6:30, and then still go home and complete three and a half hours of homework while still eating dinner. And trust me, none of you are still in high school, but that is truthfully the workload, especially when you are a junior. Plus, have none of you ever heard of a SWIMMING scholarship? Because, it's not just a rumor, they actually exist, and for anyone who reads the paper in the summer they would see michelle's name is in there basically every week for swimming. Now it seems to me that if she had the correct facilities to train then swimming could be something she would be able to pursue. Maybe none of you are educated enough to know what it's like swimming outside when it is negative degrees, but it isn't pleasent. Yeah, this is going to cost you. But in the long run it is going to be soooo worth it. The children of our community now are the future leaders of America. So if you want your future leaders to be a bunch of potheads or alcholholics, then sure, vote no. Because with no rec center for teens to put their time into something useful, that is what more than two thirds of them currently are. But if not, if you want to give them somewhere responsible to spend their time, then vote yes, and do something to help.

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nxoby36 6 years, 9 months ago

A lot of us raised children here , who became educated , healthy , responsible adults with out asking nor forcing others to help pay their way. They were not even allowed to snowboard on the mountain ( but some of them made it to the Olympics ) and your kids need a rec. center ? My kids are grown and have children of their own . My job as a parent is done . Why are you asking me ( i live on a fixed income ) for money ? Is it because you are unable to raise your children to be respectable adults with out our help ? Maybe you should try being parents ?

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emmabean1110 6 years, 9 months ago

Ask your kids. Just ask them if it would have made it easier for them to grow up doing what they have a passion for if they had the support of the community. Your job as a parent may be done, but others maybe halfway through that job, or even just starting. All that is being asked is for an opprotunity. An opprotunity for the them to grow up having more options than the century before. I'm sorry if you are set in your ways, as many older people are, but that is what evolving culture is. A change that may not be supported by many, but in the long run will be appreciated and essential for more than just those who are set in their ways. This isn't about needing a rec center for respectable kids. This is about giving them the chance to grow with their strenghts. We are asking you because you are part of the community of steamboat, and currently you (meaning the adults) hold the future of us (meaning the kids) in your hands. Not only in this matter, in others also, but this is something that could potentially affect the future of many. I know a girl who swims and LOVES it, and she is amazing to. She has gone to the Junior Olympics almost every year since she was ten, and done excedeingly well. But due to the fact that she is only able to train for swimming for four months out of the year, she is unable to progress any further. She has the ability and the determination to go far, but she doesn't have the resourses. That's all this is, it's asking for the chance to give the kids a better future.

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nxoby36 6 years, 9 months ago

OK , Help Me decide what to give up.... eating , clothing , my health care , or my home ( I seem to remember that it isn't right to ask you folks that want this Rec. center to leave Stmbt. isn't it just as wrong to force me out of my home ?) . Just so you can have something that in truth is beyond your parents ability to pay for . Or maybe I should just die and leave everything to the community not my grandchildren ? How would you like it if your grandparents where told that the life they built for themselves has to be sacrificed to help someone else's children live beyond their means and you get nothing . You had better start asking your teachers what the difference is between a Capitalistic and a Marxist society . While your at it try to find a Marxist country that isn't collapsing from an overburden of programs such as this one .

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raver 6 years, 9 months ago

lets for one moment forget about the swimming team (not out of disrespect but to give another perspective). Steamboat is a very teen friendly town, just not to the local teens. our town seems more than willing to accommodate teens from texas than it does our own teens. an example: every summer steamboat fills with triple crowners. ever summer i try to play basketball at the town courts in howleson. ever summer i try to play baseball at the local fields at howleson. i enjoy camping. i love hiking with friends. every summer i am unable to play sports due to the fact that we give the courts to RV's and they give the fields to teams from arizona and texas, i am unable to camp legally because we sell every thing to tourists (i know this understandable because they need a place to stay) and am than chased by cops because the only place we could go was on city ground and not available for camping, and am unable to hike because trails "closed" to atv's and dirtbikes are blocked by, ATV's and DIRTBIKES! we have plenty to do, local teens just arent a priority.

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herman 6 years, 9 months ago

I wonder if Gary Wall was without a multiplex REC center as a child and this is what caused his most recent public blunder.

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

If as much effort was put into lobbying for the construction of a pool and diving well at the high school as was put into the proposed rec. center it would stand a better chance of being passed and being built. There would be less opposition, more would benefit from its use, funding would be less of a problem, and overall costs would be reduced significantly.

As proposed, NO on 2B & 2C.

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RinkRat10 6 years, 9 months ago

SSYHA never owned or operated the ice rink. It was franchised out, like the tennis center, to Mike Olsen until 1994 when JR didn't renew the contract. FYI

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lithamarie 6 years, 9 months ago

Holy cow! When did we step back into the time when children should be seen and not heard? Stupendous. We have been teleported to the turn of the century.

To quote the Python, I'm sure she didn't expect a sort of "Spanish Inquisition." But, then, NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

That aside, I applaud you, Michelle, for courageously stating an opinion. Am I mistaken, or is that not one of the liberties we still possess in this country? Hmm...wait, the inability to state one's opinion without a gestapo-esque response IS one of the aspects of socialism. Very ironic.

And freedom...isn't that a funny word? Strange how the idea of freedom has been twisted by our society. Freedom is the ability to do what we AUGHT to do...no anything we WANT to do. Just an aside.

Anyway, after climbing off of my soap box, good grief. People have entirely too much time on their hands if their greatest "jolly" is stripping a teenager of her human dignity because of an article she submitted to the Steamboat paper. Hello, folks...this ain't exactly the New York Times. It's a small town local paper that often has wildlife on the front cover because there is nothing REAL to report around here.

If you don't like what she had to say, do what everyone else does and guffah on your own. Part of the problem I've noticed since moving to Steamboat from a large city is that we seem to be so full of our own issues that we can't see that there are much larger and more pressing issues at hand in this world. Ah yes, the great tragedies and tribulations of the current world agenda: People are starving to death in Africa Hundreds of Californians are homeless due to fires Earthquakes ravage southeast Asian communities And...DEAR GOD! A girl in Steamboat wants a new rec center. Hold the presses!!!!

Sorry to make light of this...but seriously...

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herman 6 years, 9 months ago

As is often the case, the vocal minority is heard the loudest. I still applaud Michelle for her passion and efforts. If more of the supporters had the same passion for their cause they could figure out a way to get this done without a tax burden. The Steamboat Youth Hockey Association figured it out and turned the facility over to the city to run after they raised enought funds to built the rink. There are ways to do this, as there are a lot more people who would potentially use the Rec Center than what use the hockey rink. The rink was built by dedicated individuals who would not take no for an answer.

Of course we can all benefit from a Rec Center but do we want to shoulder the cost. It appears that 65% of respondents say no we do not want this cost. We will find out on next Tuesday. In the mean time Michelle keep pushing for your cause. You are doing more for the rec center than a group of adults who have raised money to advertise the benefits of this center. Maybe you should chair this group and get the real facts out to the public. Whenever I see a group formed that raises money to get the facts out to the public I am usually skeptical of those facts whether it is for or against.

As for a swimming facility, go to the school board and build a pool. Again concerned people raised the money to put an artificial surface down at Gardner Field. Does anyone know what it would cost to put in a competition pool at the high school? I know it would be a fraction of the $34,000,000 price tag that is currently on the rec center. The Steamboat swim team can be the beneficiary of this type of program and help fund the cost of running it. The school board just threw away $279,000 by getting rid of Donna Howell, was she really that bad? So it appears that there is money to be had from the school board so ........

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 9 months ago

Herman- that money was put into "trust" when the old BOE signed the contract for Howell, so it has no bearing on anything doing with the Rec Center or a pool at the High School. Plus, where at the High School would you propose to put a pool? If this is your best answer, expand on it.

Again, as Books has mentioned: have you even looked at the plans? The pool is the least of this Rec Center. Why does it stand out so much to you instead of the whole picture?

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MichelleLichtenfels 6 years, 9 months ago

So now I have been told to try being a parent so I understand why adults don't want to pay for children to have facilities? After I go get pregnant I'll be sure to get back to you. Thank you for this fabulous advice. It really just was about the best advice I have recieved in a very long time. Bravo. And as for a pool at the highschool... yes I want a pool. But I don't only want this for me. That is not the only aspect we need. I would ask for this however I know that it would fall on deaf ears. However if you want, I'll go ask for that. I do believe adults pay taxes for that too? And the hockey kids, not to generalize, but they are far better off than our summer swim program. This really is amusing. litha... its three o clock in the morning.... haha

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 9 months ago

The few affluent people who decided "for the community" to try to make this proposal fly on the backs of all the taxpayers without devoting any time or effort to fundraising neither amongst themselves nor by tapping into the considerable partnership potential in town that now includes Intrawest will simply just do that when this proposal fails. My prediction is that this rec center will be realized by other means if this fails that will include private funding as it should and needs to even to 100%. Nothing will be lost by voting NO now.

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Books 6 years, 9 months ago

honestythebestpolicy - I beg to differ. We do have a lot to loose by not voting YES. The need for a rec center is not going to go away. If we wait 5 years, go back to the drawing board, spend another $60 or $80k on consultants, then build it, it will cost a bunch of millions more.

Even if that white knight did come along, it would most likely have to be a developer who could pass on the costs, the City Council would run them off. They would not want it to be said that they are in the back pocket of a developer.

If we vote YES now, we will save a bunch of millions.

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

If the vote is NO many more millions will be saved. Vote NO on 2B & 2C!

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 9 months ago

Who said anything about waiting 5 years and going back to the drawing board? Get the crowd together that wants the current sulution and ask them to contribute and fund raise for it and then come and ask the taxpayers to fill in for the rest. This effort is backwards in doing it the other way around. The tennis center was paid for partially with private funding. This proposal has none?

I was with a group last week that was told by a CCRC rec center proponent that Intrawest had already signed a letter of intent to contribute to the costs. Why isn't that ironed out and included in this initiative instead of being held back to see if the taxpayers will just foot the whole bill and the Intrawest contribution can just be some more icing on the cake?

Be Honest. According to the latest CCRC handouts, this rec center now includes an "Artificial Turf field with lights for extended season use". How was this $100,000.00+ added to the building program after the cost estimate was prepared and published by the most recent Consultant Team based on a specific line item budget for specific amenities - an artificial turf field not being one of them? The larger question, how are the needs of the community being assessed or is it simply carte blanche with the taxpayer monies about what amenities will be included at any given time based on a few people's whims?

Bottom line: The financial resources are available in this town to fulfill or at least partially fulfill this wish list. It is a huge missed opportunity not to even try to pursue these and then come to the table with some dollars $$$ and financial backing that solidifies the need/want before asking the taxpayers.

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colobob 6 years, 9 months ago

Dear honesty, better put on your chest waders for the reply to this one. Seems like the deeper one digs the deeper this gets. Give the taxpayers a well deserved break. Privatize it and run it as a self supporting business!

NO on 2B & 2C!

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 9 months ago

Dear Colobob, I know. And I couldn't agree more with you

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Books 6 years, 9 months ago

Honestythebestpolicy,

Really, where is that Intrawest letter? I think you are making it up! Sorry, but the say no bunch has a history of making things up.

-Ad in newspaper claiming cost to build is $6,600 per person. Actual for a family of 4 in 500k house is less than $825 per person spread out over 20 years - (be happy to prove that)

-Ad in newspaper claiming cost to maintain is $1,000 per person. Actual for family of 4 in 500k house is around $150 per person spread out over 20 years - (be happy to prove that)

-The ad numbers put out by the say no bunch are based on head count. Actual is based on property valuation. They know that. Second homeowners are picking up more than ½ the total bill. (be happy to prove that too)

-Ad in paper saying that there is an indoor soccer field. No indoor soccer field.

-Endless postings and sample ballot views about a 12 million pool. Actual is 8 to 9 million includes hot tub, lazy river and warm pool.

If there is such a letter, then the way the ballot is written, the bond can actually be reduced. Read the ballot language. Key words "UP TO".

"Referendum 2C SHALL THE CITY OF STEAMBOAT SPRINGS DEBT BE INCREASED UP TO $3,400,000"

I hope you are right. The bond can be lowered. It would be great P.R. for Intrawest. Vote YES 2B & 2C.

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 9 months ago

Ask any Optimist Club member that was at that CCRC presentation if we were told that an Intrawest letter of intent for financing already exists. Pot calling the kettle black about making things up - for sure. And really, if that isn't true about an Intrawest funding pledge there should be. As there should be from many of the businesses and citizens that support this to show some good faith community effort that this is a REAL community project and not just creating a taxpayer sink hole.

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ColoradoNative 6 years, 9 months ago

Why not use that money to fix our traffic problem NOW before traffic is so bad that people won't even want to use the Rec center.

First things first people. Get with it.

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colobob 6 years, 8 months ago

Infrastructure is and should be a priority! The rec. center is a luxury and should be a private SELF SUPPORTING business.

NO WAY on 2B & 2C!

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 8 months ago

CoNative- Think about it though:

Where do people ALL have to go to swim in Steamboat (Property pools usually aren't lap sized)? Downtown.

In fact, with the exception of Curves in Sundance Plaza, where are all other workout facilities located?? Downtown.

Where is the biggest traffic congestion in Steamboat? Downtown and westward to about 7-11.

Putting a Rec Center on the mountain MIGHT just help relieve some of that travel congestion. MIGHT, I reiterate.

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ColoradoNative 6 years, 8 months ago

Kiebalsa.....I don't need a pool. I go to the hot springs and the old town pool. What I do NEED is less congestion blocking me from those two places that I love that don't raise my taxes. The rec center proposal is a joke and it's going to fail miserably.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 8 months ago

So, CoNative, that makes you are part of the congestion problem. Where's a large congestion downtown? 3rd St. & Lincoln for OTHS and the Post Office.

Since you're part of the problem, best of luck to ya. It might just fail, if the Pilot poll is an indication. But, since that's only 500-ish votes so far, I'm betting it gets a better percentage in the real vote.

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 8 months ago

BoulderGrad, When did/do you plan on disclosing that "over six figures" of funds have been raised and how will they be applied? If you were honest then that would be part of this ballot initiative and would reduce the capital costs that you are expecting the taxpayers to pay.

This rec center effort has simply been dishonest for some long time and certainly not about community right up to today with BoulderGrad disclosing that there has been over 10 million dollars of funds privately raised on a comment line. That should at the forefront of your campaign.
Just like when we were told that this rec center HAD TO be built at the Curcci Turner site because it wouldn't all fit at the Ski Town site and when Council rejected the Curcci Turner site all of the sudden lo and behold it does fit at the Ski Town Site with the solution you propose today. The taxpayers had to pay a whole different Consultant Team to tell us what you all already knew and it would have saved a huge pile of money if you would have been honest in the first place. Those are the facts because of a few people's selfish and personal agendas surrounding this rec center. It is sad and ultimately why it will fail.

That is on your back so good that you have your "over six figures" to work with. Sounds like you don't need taxpayer monies to me. Just another one of the rec center scams. Your dishonesty is appalling that I only have more examples in my pocket to illustrate. VOTE NO ON 2B & 2C.

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Books 6 years, 8 months ago

Honestythebestpolicy,

WOW! I think you set some sort of record with that one.

Six figures would be 100,000. Eight figures would be 10,000,000. You guys have so much trouble with math. Or maybe reading. No wonder the vote no ads are so misleading.

As I pointed out before, the way the ballot is written, any money raised can be used to lower the bond.

At first glance, I also thought that the Ski Town site was too small. When they actually did a plat, I was surprised that the whole thing would fit. I wanted to go with Howelsen Hill and just deal with the traffic problems. The good thing about the Ski Town site is its proximity to the ski area and tourist dollars.

My selfish and personal agenda stems from having visited quite a few of these new rec centers and seen for myself the benefit to the communities that have them. I have seen people from every segment of these communities using these rec centers.

Vote YES 2B & 2C.

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 8 months ago

Thanks for that clarification Books on what over six figures actually means. Don't know the "you guys" you refer to but you and your guys are still not answering the very important questions: 1) Where is that money that has been raised for a rec center? 2) How much is it? 3) Why those monies aren't being disclosed so that the taxpayers know what it is that is really needed to construct this thing? It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch of imagination to me that $10 million or more could and should be raised in our community for this.

And you know, your amateur "first glance" at a site isn't the same thing as spending 100's of thousands of taxpayer dollars for site analysis when our own Parks and Recreation Department had already paid for and been told the same thing. Their first study said the Ski Town site was desirable and Parks and Rec simply rejected it telling that a rec center wouldn't all fit at there (not true as we now know) because they preferred the Curcci Turner site more then based on their own personal agendas. Better views from their proposed offices or something. Their story changed after the Council rejected the Curcci Turner site and here we are today literally 100's of thousands dollars later at the Ski Town site again.

The site solution is not the problem. It's the total loss of trust that is prevalent especially with these high dollar proposals that the people in charge don't have any intention of being honest with or about those hard earned taxpayer dollars. Especially when they are dishonest along the way. That's is the case here and perhaps the difference between this proposed rec center and the other true community rec centers you have visited.

It just brings me back to my original premise that this rec center will be realized by other financial means if this ballot initiative fails that will include private funding as it should and needs to even to 100%. Nothing will be lost by voting NO now.

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 8 months ago

BOULDERGRAD:

You have no credibility. You wasted your time & money in Boulder as you don't know what you are talking about at any given time. You are not a steward of the community. See ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS BELOW:

ALL BOULDERGRAD comments in chronological order from 7/11/07 - mostly concerning a rec center......

"And guess what! A committee has formed to start planning a rec center in Craig. What an embarrassment to have them beat us to it."

"FYI, this is what is being discussed. We can get an all-encompassing rec center for everyone in our community to use, without a TAX INCREASE. No property tax. No sales tax. This could be done without increasing our taxes: property or sales."

"Several sets of consultants now have reported, through surveys and studies and their own experience, that the citizens of Steamboat want and need a recreation center."

"From what I have learned (unpublished as of yet), a rec center may be able to be achieved responsibly and affordably. I know it sounds crazy, but please be patient. It will really be a benefit to everyone in our community."

"If you are outfitting a family full of kids, then you would also welcome a Gap Store"

"How about some more affordable restaurant options such as Chipotle, Tokyo Joe's, Olive Garden, Country Buffet, Red Robin, Carrabba's?"

"But right now, the Old Town Hot Springs (which is downsizing from what it HAD in this new renovation) "won't let" the proposed rec center do that. Why should our community stand to have a private business tell us what we can and cannot do?"

"Susan Dellinger and Karen Post are the council members who have come up with this latest scheme. Not only are they being fiscally irresponsible, they are being illegally influenced by the one Council member who has to recuse himself from the issue because he works at Old Town Hot Springs."

"The details for the rec center are being finalized, but I think a couple of free things for the kids would be the outdoor skatepark and the turf field."

more to follow...

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honestythebestpolicy 6 years, 8 months ago

MORE BoulderGrad Quotes:.

"Are you computer savvy enough to read this? I hope so. If not, call the City and ask for the figures yourself."

"Obviously, paddlefisher, you didn't make it through school. "

"Ask the county commissioners why they won't be included. Those outside the city limits will have a slightly higher cost to get in, as they are not paying property tax. "

"As I have said, a rec center WILL happen. Pay now, or pay later. "

"Another thing to consider, if this doesn't pass, the project could very well go back to the Curci-Turner site, as that is 33 acres of city-owned property. I would think every homeowner in that neighborhood would have a yard sign in their yard, and be fully in support of the Tennis Bubble site. Don't you? "

"In closing, how about we all meet at Centennial Hall one night and battle it out in a vat of jello?"

"Slap on a Speedo, Mr. Turner, and have some fun with the rest of us!"

"Also, one of our Letters to the Editor also disclosed this fact but the paper didn't choose to run this one."

"There was organized neighborhood opposition to the Curci-Turner site, which many still feel is perfect."

"If the Curci Turner neighbors were smart, every one of them would have a yard sign out in their yard right now, and get this thing passed."

.....WOW BoulderGRAD, seems you're not above naming names on this anonymous forum when it suits you?

If YOU were smart YOU would not have to resort to threats and lies to get what YOU want. YOU would go do the real work and achieve a solution honestly that the community wants and REALLY do some community building at the same time. And not take advantage of any more taxpayer dollars. Enough. Not like you weren't told that along the way. I hope the right people can still make it happen.

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