Does Steamboat's isolation impact social views?

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— Steamboat Springs is like its own little bubble, seemingly detached from the rest of the world. That raises the question: Does Steamboat's isolation affect views on social issues?

Marilyn Harris, 14, thinks it does. "I think a lot of people are close-minded. It's not their fault, but they've just never been exposed" to diversity.

The Teen Style staff is of the opinion that culture and diversity are a necessity that Steamboat severely lacks.

"I think that diversity is a need for human life - you need to understand people," said Haley O'Brien, 15.

Paula Ninger, 15, agreed.

"You need to understand other people's viewpoints and put yourself in their shoes before you judge them," she said.

The discussion turned to issues in our own community, such as race, religious views and sexual preferences.

"It really bugs me that the Latino population isn't really integrated; they're just their own group," Harris said.

Everyone agreed that the problem could be reversed by talking and interacting.

When it came to religion, the Teen Style staffers were split on acceptance of beliefs. Most felt their beliefs are being overly challenged at school.

"I think that people can be a little standoffish to religion here," O'Brien said.

O'Brien said students in some of her classes are intolerant of her Christian views.

Harris agreed, but added that Steamboat Springs "still feels like a very white, Christian community."

The staffers think listening to everyone's point of view on religion and other touchy topics, instead of just blindly arguing, would allow everyone to get along better.

Sexual preferences and gay rights are rarely thought about in Steamboat - the school's Gay Straight Alliance has only four members.

"What would you do if you saw a totally gay guy? : So many people here would be aware of the difference and make fun of it," O'Brien said. Because we do not have exposure to differences such as this, O'Brien added, we will most likely have a disadvantage when we go off to college.

"People are so intolerant about things that they aren't even aware of," Ninger said.

Molly Parsons, 15, suggested class time as part of the problem.

"Teachers are so afraid to let us discuss iffy topics," she said. "They try to suppress our opinions."

When asked whether Steamboat's isolation affects views on social issues, the Teen Style staff has a unanimous opinion: Yes.

But by discussing these issues, there is a possibility that we can broaden our horizons and rid ourselves of the small-town isolation handicap.

Comments

Oscar 6 years, 5 months ago

How could Steamboat be "like its own little bubble, seemingly detached from the rest of the world"? Do these kids not have access to news from the rest of the world? Do they not understand that the Latinos may prefer to be "their own group"? Perhaps we should invoke "forced busing" again to integrate the Latinos? We don't seem to have a problem attracting sex offenders, as it seems to me from reading the Police Blotter that every week another one registers in our community. Perhaps we should have a social program to better integrate them?

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id04sp 6 years, 4 months ago

mountinmike,

Come back in 30 years and revisit your point of view. In the meantime, try your philosophy in downtown Atlanta when you break down on the freeway and end up robbed and sodomized.

Peaceful diversity is a wonderful thing, and I say that with complete sincerity. You will usually find, however, that peaceful diversity is a result of a screening process of some sort, whether it's a college admissions office, a military recruiter or a U. S. Government job qualification.

Good luck.

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SJames 6 years, 5 months ago

The only bubble I see here is age. Give anyone of these good kids time to work and breath a little more, the sociological aspects of their issues will be opened to them. Some do see things as they are. We should maybe listen.

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steamvent 6 years, 5 months ago

Just maybe, when folks turn off of I-80 and head south or I-70 and head north to Steamboat, they are purposely or inadvertantly seeking refuge from the in vogue routine of cramming down the throats of society in population centers the all incompassing "diversity" card. Steamboat is still a place where people will look you in the eye when you walk down the street and say hello. Our youth would be well served to foster that simple reputation rather than becoming immersed in saving us all from ourselves by dwelling on making us like every other place. Just be good individuals.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 5 months ago

And, maybe Steamboat is a place where people "look you in the eye" because you look and act a lot like them. That is fairly easy to do when a person is surrounded by familiarity.

As the young people attest in the above article, they are aware of other types of people (probably through the media and the Internet), yet they don't see them well represented here in this town. Even though the teaching of "diversity" issues can be as asinine as any other attempt at bridging people's understanding of other kinds of people, the reality in our world is that there is still plenty of hate and misunderstanding, even in our lovely town. Sure, we tend to "seek our own kind", but is that REALLY where the future of humanity should be?

I don't think Oscar anywhere insinuated a connection between gay folks and sex offenders, but I find it instructive that the students note that gay people are not easily recognized in this town or in their school. Just given the barest research numbers, with around 500 students in the high school, with the 4% estimate of people who are strictly homosexual in our society, that should flesh out to around 20 students. And, that doesn't take into consideration all the people that are not so strictly in that small category. So, with only 3 or 4 in the Gay/Straight Alliance, there are many more in "hiding", since to really expose oneself is to risk a lack of acceptance or tolerance.

I would venture to say that being a "good" individual is to be willing to seek out other points of view and other ways of living. Only then can we truly grow as human beings.

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id04sp 6 years, 5 months ago

Steamboat is an absolute haven from the crime and social ills of big cities. If we could only get the illegal drug users under control, we'd have no crime at all.

My observations of life in other states reinforce the fact that, given equal opportunity, different cultures prefer to keep to themselves. One of my relatives lives in a place where blacks are taking old dinosaur sized cars from the 60s and 70s and turning them into large sparkling show pieces with 23 inch wheels. These people are spending thousands of dollars on cars that would not bring $100 at an auction.

There are places where black people make no bones about the fact that they do not like caucasians and don't want us around. Dr. King's "dream" is long lost in the realities of a free society where, ultimately, people want to be free to be their own isolated group in a fragmented culture.

I've heard statements as bizarre as, "Marriage is for white people," and, "We teach out kids to lie to the police." There are cities where people are murdered at a rate of more than one per day. Some of our troops are safer in Iraq than they are in their own home towns.

These teenagers who want diversity need to take a field trip to a place like DC or Detroit or Memphis and see how they are treated when they get on the "wrong" side of town. There was a time when people were not allowed to live anywhere they can afford, but those days have long passed, and it turns out that race and culture do seem to be highly correlated with each other when people choose where to live.

Diversity should only be a goal as far as it needs to be embraced to give everyone equal opportunity. If those of us who moved here to get away from the crime, crowding and social ills of our prior homes want to be isolated, it's our right. One of our friends was stabbed to death in his office in an east coast city less than a year after we moved to Routt County. We left to get away from people who do things like that, and if you don't mind too much, how about leaving "diversity" back there where it belongs. Go to college somewhere they have a diverse population and enjoy that. If you really like it, stay there.

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STEMBOATwannabe 6 years, 4 months ago

What is so bad about being isolated? Many other places in the United States also lack diversity. Property values in the Springs area will probably keep the diversity issue alive. The high values is a sort of screening process that "id04sp" mentioned. It is just the way it is in Steamboat.

Need diversity? Visit Denver.

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longjumper42 6 years, 5 months ago

I think the article make a good point of Steamboat, being a place where things or people that are unfamiliar are looked down upon. It seems to me people here are afraid of change. What ever happend to progression and moving forward for the good of everyone. It seems that the more the steamboat 'locals' fight change, the more regression happens. This is a community with unlimited potential to expand their horizions, and yet people fight it, whether it be with money or politics (which usually go hand in hand) and they fail to realize that the more they chose this behavior the more they isolate themselves from positive change. Just because its different doesn't mean its bad.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 5 months ago

Thank you, ID, for helping demonstrate my point that what we need here is more understanding and tolerance for others' viewpoints. I would rather live in a world where people do NOT isolate themselves from those they don't understand. And, I will continue to encourage any young person I come in contact with to seek out those experiences which will broaden their understanding of the world around them.

Crimes still happen here. Drug abuse is quite high here per capita. If people could learn basic respect for themselves and for one another, humanity has a future. I believe in the power of love over self-centeredness and education over fear and isolation.

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chessydog 6 years, 4 months ago

I agree with you ID. I live in a town near Atlanta. I came to this town with an open mind after growing up in the North. Where I live now we have plenty of diversity. (it's 50% African American). We also have one of the worse public school systems in the country, one of the worse crime rate in the country (we actually one year got the infamous award for being the highest murder rate in the country) and high taxes.In the last 6 years I have had my car broken into 3 times and my garage two times.

I visit the Steamboat "bubble" once a year and would love to stay in it . I am sure it is very easy for people who do not live with the diversity that I live with to look down on people who think that diversity is not what it is all cracked up to be. This is because their idea of diversity is much different than what diversity really is.

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corduroy 6 years, 4 months ago

there's some kids in this town who have been taught by family members to be intolerant of other races. Maybe you don't hear about it, there's a reason sadly there aren't so many african americans living in Steamboat Springs. Especially children.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

Funny, nowhere except in quotes do I mention the word "diversity". That word has lost much of its original purpose, and it too easily brings up emotional responses which can block clear thinking. I was simply talking about learning to live with people who see life differently than we do.

I have lived in several large cities (New York, Houston, Indianapolis, to name a few), and I have had my share of negative experiences there (including getting beaten up, car break ins, theft identity and other crimes). Being in large cities where there's crime has little to do with trying to understand others' viewpoints. Those are economic issues, by and large, not issues related so much to cultural or ethnic backgrounds.

A first step to understanding others is not to put words into their mouths, but to hear what is actually being said. I have grown into my "philosophy" over many years of experience in many locales in this country. Ultimately, it is a matter of choice how we live our lives toward others. Even if I came back to this community in 30 years, it is still my choice how I see and react to the world. Do I wish to try and bring more peace to it, or more lack of understanding? How we live is up to us.

I moved to this town because of its physical beauty and amazing opportunities for outdoor recreation, not to get away from any perceived "boogey men" in the cities. Again, the point being made by the students above is that they don't perceive a WELCOMING of other types of people here. There are certainly people from other ethnic and cultural groups that could afford to live here, but where are they? Would they REALLY be welcomed here? Is our solution to educating young people about other cultures simply to tell them to "go to Denver"? Shouldn't we as adults and leaders of this community be helping them understand those things?

And, I'm not really sure what the HIV/AIDS story has to do with this topic...

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gatorhunter 6 years, 4 months ago

OK- I am getting alittle tired of the Pilot using quotes... as some sort of defining law in this town... that they obtain from children under 18. Diversity.... hmmmm... we live in the middle of the Rocky Mountains in the middle of nowhere! Considering this fact we are not doing so badly... there is a large buddhist community, plenty of agnostic and atheist people, as well as many branches of Christianity. Do we have a Jewish Center? I haven't heard that mentioned. I also think that the gay community is pretty well integrated around here, again considering geographics.

Also, don't most teenagers like to bash their home town and classify adults who live there as "closed-minded"?

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freshair 6 years, 4 months ago

mntinmike..'And, I'm not really sure what the HIV/AIDS story has to do with this topic...'

Really? For sure? Are you that naive or playing stupid as Liberals tend to do when confronted with facts they'd prefer to ignore? The fact that blacks comprise 80% of all HIV and AIDS cases in this country is relevant to any discussion dealing with the pro's and con's of the desirability of wanting to live in an area with large numbers or minimal numbers of blacks.

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Sgirl 6 years, 4 months ago

I'm interested in why O'Brian felt her religious views were not tolerated in her school. What's up with that?

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

as most of you commenting are clearly adults maybe its hard for you to understand what teenagers see when they go to school everyday. dont know when this started but it is now almost like a fad to be racist and intolerant. its hard to go a day or two without hearing some racial slur. one student commented in class "i dont think god created black people." Mexican slurs and jokes are constant and the fact is that most of them dont really interact with students outside of themselves. you can try to blame this on a language barrier but that is no excuse. the majority of them do speak english well enough and a large number of american kids speak spanish well enough. should the groups be forced to integrate? no but if there was something that allowed kids to choose to integrate themselves than i think a lot of people would welcome it. the fact is that until different groups get to know each other, sterotypes will be perpetuated. oh and all this diversity means crime crap. seems to me that that is what this article was saying was wrong with steamboat. i mean seriously, an ethnicly diverse town means well all get robbed? im not saying we should force people to live here to make it ethniclly diverse but come on. maybe rather than blaming diversity we should blame poverty, drugs, and inadequate schooling for problems that exist in our country.

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quizzical_rogue 6 years, 4 months ago

I am an American, born and raised. I am a short-term Steamboat resident.

Various thoughts I have on this interesting thread;

  1. Based upon what I've seen of the demographic studies of Steamboat, we are not a culturally, religious, or sexually diverse community.

2.Based upon my experiences in Steamboat we are not a diverse community.

  1. Based upon some broad and loose interpretation of diverse, Steamboat is diverse.

At some point we all might look for exposure to different ethnicities, religions, cultures, music or sexual preferences. Some might say we are drawn to this by curiosity, or perhaps we respect what we see in other's and want to find a way to incorporate that into ourselves.

It seems that a part of the Steamboat population would like to be exposed to different ways of viewing and interpreting life. Other parts of the Steamboat population are not interested in this. This seems to be the case with all peoples around the world.

We all might benefit from seeing that there are both positive and negative aspects to every ethnicity, religion, sexual preference and cultures.

I'm sure some of you will be offended that I've not offered a solution, this is because I do not have the knowledge to do so. By sharing our diverse knowledge we might be able to move towards something that helps with this issue.

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corduroy 6 years, 4 months ago

I don't think its a problem of Steamboat needing more diversity. It's mostly a problem of people just needing to be nice to one another, no matter how much money their family has, what ethnicity they are, their sex, age, etc, etc. Considering the huge Christian population you think more people would "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Smile at someone new today :)

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armchairqb 6 years, 4 months ago

Way to go courdaroy!! The people in this town may look you in the eye (while they stab you in the back) Just read some of the blogs. Who needs diversity when any human can do damage to any other human. Man's inhumanity to Man. Happens here as everywhere.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

Fresh, who said anything about "liberals" or otherwise? Please don't put words in people's mouths or judge others when you know little about them...

No, I'm neither naive nor do I play stupid (except on TV, of course). If you read the details more carefully, pt22's article is about the District of Columbia, and it involves all NEW cases. Washington, DC, has an unusually large percentage of African-Americans compared to the general population, so not really surprising to hear this stat. So, should that extend to ALL blacks in our country?

You sure seemed to jump pretty quickly on a reason to keep darker skinned people out of Steamboat or at least away from you...interesting...

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freshair 6 years, 4 months ago

mntinmike....Sober up, will ya! Who's trying to 'keep' anybody from living whereever they want? If 'Diversity' is your bag, wonderful, the roads run both ways into town, in and out. Feel free to plant yourself in some urban oasis of diversity and enjoy. But don't begrudge anyone who has experienced many years of living in high minority areas with their associated high crime rates and prefers the racial makeup of places like Steamboat.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

I begrudge nothing, and live my life most soberly (although full of gratitude and joy). Merely try to remind us that the greatest spiritual minds in human history have encouraged us to love our "enemies" (i.e., read, those that we "despise" or are different than we are). Know the Good Samaritan parable that Jesus taught? If not, might be good to check it out.

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toboyle105 6 years, 4 months ago

Its funny reading through all the comments, you can tell who are the older commentators. As one gets older they get more cynical from their experiences in life. If the younger ones want to learn about why some people act the way they do, try reading The Crowd by Gustav Le Bon (1895). Its free on line if you google it. The school ought to require its reading. What was true of 1895 applies today. Its a study on how crowds behave. A crowd can be 5 people or thousands.

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

damn, again with the diversity=crime stuff so whites dont commit crimes but minorities do? maybe its not there race but the situation there in maybe steamboat has a low crime rate because we have an excess of wealth maybe inner cities have a high crime rate because of poor economic status maybe if steamboat switched situations with one of these places than the crime would do the same

i dont know just throwing it out there

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dimwitiguess 6 years, 4 months ago

I just read all of these blogs, and I must say I am overwhelmed by the wisdom and knowledge flowing so easily from the sages of Steamboat. Bravo! I must confess that I have never known such erudite people elsewhere. Such a wealth of provocative thought. "Bravo!" I must say again.

Down with "diversity" and up with "character." The TRUE "character" hidden in the words above are scary at best. "Character" isn't always a good thing. Sounds like drunken conversations over a poker game in the back of a bar.

Yeh, sure, I know, I'm just a dimwitiguess.

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toboyle105 6 years, 4 months ago

sbvor

The "herd" is constantly polled and the message back to the herd is constantly tailored by those wishing to control and maintain power over the "herd". It doesn't matter which "herd" you belong to, there are those that want the power to control it. They will say anything and do anything for that power.

Go back over time and there is always something that is popular, hip and "progressive" thing to do. This time period is no different than any before it. Its just a lot easier to do with the instant news available through the technology of today.

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toboyle105 6 years, 4 months ago

I forgot to add that yes I believe that it a young thing of "why can't we just get along". Most of the young are more left leaning and can be controlled by those in power. As one gets older the needle starts to move toward the right as the rose colored glasses come off and you start to observe what is really going on.

A good education helps, so don't follow the herd that will say that schooling is useless.

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id04sp 6 years, 4 months ago

Okay, dimwit, here's my definition:

Taking care of the genuine needs of yourself and your family while at the same time not unlawfully victimizing or harming other people is the measure of character that I use. Shorten that to "honest self-sufficiency and respect for the safety and property rights of other people." Honesty is a requirement, but so is the ability to live with dignity within your own means.

It has nothing to do with how "other people think." If other people think I owe them a living, they are WRONG!

I provided employment for a number of "free thinkers" and paid them fairly, and on time, while some of them stole from me in return for my trust. All of them got paychecks and sometimes I did not. That's the burden we "capitalists" sometimes bear that you never hear about.

If a woman chooses to kill her child, that's up to her under current law. I'd rather she use contraception instead, and avoid the whole controversy. What's so radical about that? Personally, I think that sick babies should die rather than receive millions of dollars worth of medical care, and that defective fetuses should be aborted to spare them the pain and suffering of living with profound disabilities.

Everybody wants to be equal right up to the point that relying upon their own skill, wits and labor don't provide for their needs. Then, people want "affirmative action" and compensation for not being able to compete. So what do you really want? Equality, or an admission of inferiority that qualifies you for a special good deal at the expense of the more successful members of society?

I've got a nice socialist proposal for you. How about taking children away from any parent who does not have the ability to pass a basic intelligence and academic skills test, or who doesn't make enough money to provide proper food, housing, education and medical care, and placing them in state-run programs which can provide a better upbringing?

Diversity means that, if you want to listen to jazz, you are free to do so. It doesn't mean that I have to enjoy listening to the stuff. I don't foresee any circumstance in which exposure to rap music, jazz musicians, meth heads, attorneys, real estate developers, pot smokers or history majors who cannot earn enough money to buy a house in my neighborhood would be something that I would seek out, much less enjoy. I personally treasure the fact that one seldom comes across a falling-down-drunk on Lincoln Ave in the middle of the day. That's a kind of diversity I don't need.

There is a cure for poverty and lack of opportunity in this country, but the people who need the cure won't take the medicine. Every child needs to learn to speak intelligible English, do basic math, and behave in a way that he can get along with other people and hold a job. If those criteria are not compatible with "diversity," then we just don't need such a thing in this town (or any town).

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toboyle105 6 years, 4 months ago

Isn't this word "Diversity" just another catch phrase for homogenous. There are leaders who would like to homogenize us to increase the size of their "herd" thereby wiping out diversity, increasing their power base and the money in their pockets. When that happens all original thought starts to disappear.

The old Soviet State tried homogenization but it failed. Diversity is what makes the world go around.

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freshair 6 years, 4 months ago

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

William F Buckley Jr as credited by Mallard Fillmore, the thinking man's antidote to Doonesbury.

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dimwitiguess 6 years, 4 months ago

Id,

Who's talking about skin color? We are talking diversity vs. character.

If I am a woman of character and I believe that abortion is a woman's right and you are an man of character and you believe abortion is not a woman's choice and abortion in wrong, whose character do I question? That's just one of the many issues, socialism vs. capitalism. You are obviously a capitalist "pig" so in my book not a person of "character." I am a person who believes in social responsiblility so you have labeled me and others who think that way as a socialist "pig." And we fight about it.

Color, ethnicity, race, language, etc. are not diversity per se. Is it so that as long as I believe the way you do I am a person of character.

No, character goes a lot farther than skin color, et. al.. You have berated anyone who thinks differently than you. That is not showing character or respect for diversity of thought or diversity of anything else.

Who defines "character?" You and other like- thinkers? Everyone else is "diversity?" Or lacking "character?"

Still a dimwitiguess.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

Isn't it amazing when certain folks get on these discussions and give their inflamed opinions, in effect "shouting" other people down, all true discussion ceases? A shame, truly. I think all posters should be REQUIRED to give their real names. It sure would cut a lot of the bulls**t.

Mike Brumbaugh

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twostroketerror 6 years, 4 months ago

Mallard Fillmore, thinking mans antidote to Doonesbury?? LOL!!! Oh man, I just laughed until I cried, Thank you!! How 'bout Mallard Fillmore, Quick quips so you don't have to hurt yourself thinking? Could this be any more off subject?

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JazzSlave 6 years, 4 months ago

Interesting. I wonder if the teenagers complaining about Steamboat's lack of diversity came up with their diagnoses independently, or if there's a component of indoctrination that Pacana didn't pick up on.

I've always believed there to be a generational element to much of American racial tension.

My paternal grandparents were processed at Ellis Island. They and 4 of my father's 5 siblings virtually disowned my dad when he married a woman who was neither white nor Christian. Nowadays, very few people look twice at those kinds of unions.

My mom's side of the family accepted dad with open arms. Curiously, those of my Asian relatives who have visited Japan all say the Japanese are the most racist people they have ever encountered. An uncle who served in Korea asserts that the same is true there. Both countries are racially homogeneous (compared to us, at any rate). Many have suggested that that kind of insularity inevitably leads to the kind of distrust and ignorance that results in racism, and I'm inclined to believe there's something to that.

Growing up as the only slant-eyed kid around, I caught a fair amount of flack as a youngster. However, it dissipated by the time I had reached adolescence. All things being equal, I think most Americans will naturally grow out of that crap even here in Steamboat, which is the most lily-white community I've ever been in.

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jlkar 6 years, 4 months ago

Mike has a valid point. however, I think there is confusion between opinions and character. I have many different opinions than people on this forum but I would still be happy to respect and enjoy the character that makes them up. ID brings, Vor and all others bring up points that make people think- which is why these blogs are here. To promote thought. I am never personally hurt by people's comments and I am sure, outside our opposing views, we have similarities in common too. However small those may be. Maybe just accepting the fact that people have DIVERSE opinions shows good character. I think some folks are taking things too personally.

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freshair 6 years, 4 months ago

Mallard Fillmore, thinking mans antidote to Doonesbury?? LOL!!! Oh man, I just laughed until I cried, Thank you!! How 'bout Mallard Fillmore, Quick quips so you don't have to hurt yourself thinking? Could this be any more off subject?'

Oh, of course. 'quick quips' fail your highly developed sense of 'humor'. The overblown windbag style of that icon of all things dear to the Left, Doonesbury, undoubtedly qualifies in your estimation as 'intelligent' commentary. At least be honest about it, the dead-on skewering of all things Politically Correct in Mallard no doubt infuriates you as much as Ann Coulter does. Keep it real, son.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

sbvor, for the record, are you willing to state who you are in real life? If not, why not?

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

jlkar, I certainly appreciate it when people share different views to help us think. It becomes fairly clear, however, with certain posters that it is not so much a "debate" as it is either a "let me clobber you with a multitude of dubious 'facts' to 'prove' that I am right" or it is a place where anonymous people can sling put downs at one another.

I stand by my assertion that it would truly be a beneficial "debate" if people didn't hide behind anonymity, and they would really be open to what others have to say, instead of trying to clobber us with how "right" their positions are. Character, to me, is about respecting others' views without placing unfair labels on them. It doesn't hurt my feelings - it just seems very hypocritical.

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jlkar 6 years, 4 months ago

Hey, I was a history major! And what makes you think I would want to live your 'hood anyway!

Mike- See here is the thing about anonymous debates; if I meet Matthew Stoddard (keilbasa) somewhere down the line, I will have to shake his hand and smile, knowing that his viewpoints about the rec center and tourists make me want to scream. On the other hand, if I met Matthew Stoddard before he decided to unveil himself, I could shake his hand and maybe even find something about him that I like. And Keilbasa would still just be an annoying sausage to me. This town is too small to live in that kind of mental stress. Maybe in a few years, we could all meet at a coffee shop (not Off the Beaten Path, cause it will be gone) and hiss across the table at each other. or leave nasty messages on our mud-seasoned cars. diversity at its finest.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

sbvor, my friend. You need have little fear that, if I knew your real identity, that I would resort to physical or property harm. All you need do is re-read my comments above. I believe in following a spiritual path in my life.

As I observe many of the teachings of spiritual leaders, they were much more interested in people's "characters" than they were in winning debates. They taught open-mindedness and caring for other human beings. They also exposed people's hypocrises or unwillingness to be open to others' viewpoints. So, yes, instead of trying to win "debates", they would appeal to people's feelings and characters instead of "facts". Challenging others' ethics in the proper context is not just an "ad hominem" attack.

So, for me, being a person of character means that we present ourselves fully for inspection when we espouse certain viewpoints - our names, backgrounds, experiences - the things that make us the individuals we are. That's why I think anonymity is cowardly when folks are trying to share ideas, or trying to illuminate other's lives. That's my belief. I have never labeled myself as "leftist" or "conservative", so I would appreciate your not putting me or anyone else who has not so self-identified into those narrow confines.

Spiritual guides seem to have the harshest words for those who think they are "righteous". That would pertain to me, you and anyone else on this thread.

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Michael Brumbaugh 6 years, 4 months ago

jlkar - very funny and very true! I still like the idea, though, that I could disagree with someone (even strongly and emotionally) and find a way to like SOMETHING about them. Heck, there even might be something about sbvor I would like if I met him/her in person!

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jlkar 6 years, 4 months ago

I agree- I was more joking, and I too am sure I could find something to appreciate. I am not sure everyone could though. In my opinion, the most important point you make is that it would be nice to know people's backgrounds and experiences because it would add not only credibility but also depth. Maybe one day we'll get there...

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CoJustice 6 years, 4 months ago

This is some good stuff, but back to the kids, I cant help but wonder:: "what the kids are thinking", and how they are comparing themselves? :.. They don't have the experience that adults acquire from social interaction,::. do they not feel street smart?, :sophisticated and knowledgeable to some of the things they are exposed to on the web & MTV?

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jlkar 6 years, 4 months ago

CoJustice- I know they have a diversity club at the high school... I am sure some of this fuels their thoughts... with good reason, to question why things are the way they are... and how the "other halves" live. I would assume that some of the kids do feel street smart and that in time, their ideas and opinions will be challenged and only then will they begin to live as adults (hopefully)... it brings to mind the uttering "That's not fair" and then the famous "Life's not fair"... and so adulthood sets in.

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freshair 6 years, 4 months ago

The elevation of 'Diversity' as a necessity in society is just one more example of the cultural mandates and taboos which are firmly entrenched in our present society and enforced by the largely Liberal media establishments. Take the recent flap over the remarks made by Dr. James Watson regarding race and intelligence.

The explicit reference to intelligence and people of African heritage in his interview was clearly a violation of a much more formidable taboo. Still I am not aware of there being much noise about it until Oct. 17th when the Independent caused an immediate stir by calling attention to the remarks: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners said the DNA pioneer.

There's no point in rehashing the rapid sequence of events in detail: several of Watson's sold-out speaking engagements were cancelled, many critical articles appeared in the British press, trailed by the American press a few days later, hundreds of blogs were fuming with negative commentary, including ones by the editors of Scientific American and Wired Magazine, a number of associations issued statements condemning his words, and soon he was suspended from his chancellorship at Cold Spring Harbor. Watson cancelled his already ruined book tour and flew home to tend to the destruction. It was too late; the eminent biologist retired in disgrace on Oct. 26th.

One thing, though, was conspicuously missing from this whole irritating denouement: any semblance of factual refutation. There is good reason for this: everything Watson got in trouble for saying was entirely correct!

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freshair 6 years, 4 months ago

Watson's claim was that intelligence testing shows lower intelligence scores in Africa than Europe. Is this or is this not true? The Science Museum in London responded by canceling Watson's speaking engagement by deeming this claim, not only scientifically false, but outside the realm of "legitimate" scientific inquiry (Whatever that is!) altogether:

Watson's claim was that intelligence testing shows lower intelligence scores in Africa than Europe. Is this or is this not true?

All of the esteemed band of sputtering media scientists failed to provide any allegedly citations to the contrary.

James Watson is one of the most important living figures in American science. The claim in his new book Avoid Boring People, that basic evolutionary logic predicts we should expect intelligence differences between racial groups is, if anything, an uncomplicated truth. Watson's claim in his recent interview with Charlotte Hunt-Grubbe that intelligence testing shows lower scores in Africa than Europe is likewise, entirely supported by the scientific literature. As is Dr. Watson's statement that there are many talented people of African descent, which clarifies he is speaking of different average scores, not that said populations are homogenous.

There are 65 psychometric intelligence study citations for sub-Saharan Africa, collected in IQ & Global Inequality, Race Differences in Intelligence, and IQ & the Wealth of Nations. The citations cover 47% of SS African countries or 78% of the people by national population numbers. The studies vary in quality, sample size, and representativeness, but broadly agree in their findings. Representative studies of the school age population with large sample sizes do not exhibit higher scores, much less scores that approach anything like European norms.

So, who was right, Watson or his PC critics?

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freerider 6 years, 4 months ago

A 14 year old commenting on diversity...like she has seen the world...isolation would be living in the north part of Alaska not Steamboat Springs...and stand offish to religion...well that happens everywhere... even God hates religion...he's tired of people like Joel Olsteen selling himout

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

consider where this article is coming from: anyone who has spent time in the high school can see that there is a problem with racism and tolerance. maybe the aldults dont have these problems (although i seem to remember a certain incident where a minority was beat while having racial slurs yelled at him, and seems to me kids are often a reflection of their parents) so dont say that it doesnt exist because, to be quite frank, i dont think most of you know how bad it is

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

well sbvor, i never said that i understand your point and agree that there is a hypocrisy created by policies like affirmative action. however, i don't agree with you saying that it will widen the divide. the divide is created by stereotypes and generalizations. stereotypes and generalizations are caused by lack of understanding and an understanding can only be gained with experience. now don't get me wrong, im not proposing that we force it on people but, there are opportunities to help break down the barriers that exist. and i would like for you to explain to me what is wrong with that. i also have a problem with your overuse of the word leftist or similar words. you say character is the only thing that you should use judge to people. well the broad classification you have been using directly contradicts your point, which i agree with.

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

oh and i would also like to make the point that because something is "in the Constitution" doesnt mean it is right and these so called attacks on it can be. We look at the laws put in place by our founding fathers and say "that was their view of government and therefore, it must be correct." This is, in fact, not the case. The laws, system of election, etc. that were viewed as "right" by our founding fathers were suitable for the time but as time progresses, change becomes necessary. This idea was the basis for the American Revolution. In fact in Tomas Paine's "Common Sense", arguably the most important piece of literature in the war, he makes it quite clear that we can not be blinded by our pride in our ideas. Paine believed that one who has seen nothing but one type of government is unfit to say what would be best. As common sense continues, Paine explains how Monarchical governments fail due to the fact that one group at a specific point in times elects the leader for all time. The same idea can be applied to laws. Why is it that we feel the need to place the constitution on the same untouchable pedestal that royal families are placed on in monarchical governments? We've never seen it as un American to add new laws when we feel it is needed but when one of the founding ideas comes into question, changing it is viewed as a kind of non-violent terrorism

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toboyle105 6 years, 4 months ago

Unfortunately what the young people need to understand is that there will always be those that are intolerant to others and their views. Travel the world. Racism, intolerance, income disparity exists everywhere. Look at the countries where forced "Diversity" was dictated, such as Yugoslavia. The country exploded with hate at the end of the day.

Various groups use whatever means to control that group, whether it be for criminal purposes, ecomonic purpose or religious purpose. The trick is to educate yourself and not get used by others for their less than honest purposes. Its called thinking for yourself and have a moral backbone. The world is not a nice place and humans will always be human. There is no magic bullet to right everybody's perceived wrong. Again read The Crowd.

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JazzSlave 6 years, 4 months ago

raver:

Racial tensions exist in every high school, and always have. That was certainly the case when I was there 20+ years ago. For the most part, blacks associated with blacks; whites with whites; Asians with Asians; etc.

Then we all grew up. We went to college, entered the workforce, and learned that the real world doesn't break down like high school cafeteria cliques.

The PC platitude condescendingly regurgitated by the 14 yr old in the piece about the great unwashed never having been exposed to diversity may be nonetheless axiomatic, in a "wow - water is wet!" kind of way.

The question is what to do about it. The answer isn't Big Brother-mandated diversity training, or Pacana's laughable closing paragraph. It is to let kids broaden their own horizons by growing up and naturally acquainting themselves with the real world.

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dimwitiguess 6 years, 4 months ago

sbvor, you have too much time on your hands!

I can't believe that you would spend so much time at the computer blogging. That is absolutely amazing! Go outside and look around take time to smell the roses - oh, that passed a long time ago, I guess. Really, get out more.

I picture you as a little old, hunched-over wrinkled man with shoulder-length graying dishevelled hair. I can see you now hunched over your computer and madly researching and posting web sites on the blog. "Heh, heh," you chuckled to yourself. "I'm the best dern blogger in the whole United States!"

I guess you could spend time in some other harmful way, but I'm that dimwitiguess.

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

sbvor, first, i did read your your thesis in its entirety. second, i understand that every highschool goes through racial issues, but does that make it right? its seems to me that many in this discussion seem to think that 'rascism exists and thats it and the stupid youth need to except it." what would are world be like if this is what happened? if martin luther king and other civil rights leaders thought this way there would never have been the civil rights movement. if nelson mandela and other south africans had thought this way than apartheid would still exist. if ghandi had this thought would india have gained independence?

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

oh and the second point wasnt directed at you but this is i dont think you read my point. i said that i agree that the idea of diversity can be hypocritical when forced down your throat. things like affirmative action try to create equality by creating the idea that they are different. Yes i get it and i agree with you on that point. the trouble im having understanding you is your hypocrisy. you say judge only on character and yet make these broad classifications of leftists. maybe im wrong but i dont really see how

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raver 6 years, 4 months ago

rather than waste space here im gonna continue talking to you in your link.

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id04sp 6 years, 4 months ago

Correlation does not imply cause and effect. On the other hand, maybe the number of liquor stores is a response to demand, and demand is a function of culture.

As for your "color of law" concerns, I can document several cases for you where citizens have been robbed by the courts under color of law. This can happen when the courts act without jurisdiction over the person or the subject matter of the controversy (which can occur due to expiration of a statue of limitations, or lacking service of required notices, etc.), or when they act in a manner directly opposed by written statutes, particularly action in violation of the U. S. Code. The biggest color of law robbery in our lifetime is the $18,000,000 spent on the justice center as a result of Judge Doucette's unlawful order several years ago which was entered without subject matter jurisdiction (by statute, only the chief justice of the Colorado Supreme Court has the power to enter such an order).

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agentofchange 6 years, 4 months ago

The "Golden Rule" guys, The "Golden Rule".

It's been written in various forms into every valid doctrine of wisdom since the ancients. It was handed to us by the Masters. Everything else pales in its shadow.

As far as the kids are concerned, they will be fine as long as they understand the "Golden Rule", or at least the concept. As adults, we are doomed unless we also embrace the concept. I, by the way am not a "Christian".

All the rest of this is psycho-babble, with all due respect.

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ski_and_be_green 6 years, 3 months ago

I would like to clarify a lot of monumental mistakes all of you are making. I'm really good friends with Josie, the author, and she is 17, not young enough to call her a kid. I highly resent that. The way you "adults" are bickering about this, it gives me the impression that we are the mature ones here. I've been all over the world, and steamboat is lacking much needed diversity. Anyone who denies this is either blind or ignorant. High schools in Sweden have students from all over the globe: India, middle east, Africa, japan and china and many many other places. Did you know we only have two black students in our school? About 90% of the population is white. That's called NO DIVERSITY!

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steamboatsconscience 6 years, 3 months ago

sbore getting tired of your character assassinations here, I see you took out Nancy Stahoviak, now a 17 year old. are you that insecure that you need to prove your manhood? didnt your mommy love you enough? get over yourself you whining baby. I truly feel sorry for your family having to put up with such an overbearing oaf as yourself.

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steamboatsconscience 6 years, 3 months ago

basa OK man/womanhood. As a Liberal Socialist Fascist Communist Global Warming Al Gore loving hippie I gotta be PC.

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Matthew Stoddard 6 years, 3 months ago

SC- I laughed because of the Bore's real identity. That's why the Bore's positions usually make me laugh. If you only knew!! LOL!

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ski_and_be_green 6 years, 1 month ago

This is pathetic sbvor. Yes I am 17, but obviously, I am the more mature one. I did not take all that time to attack some innocent bystander who commented on the town's lack of diversity. You can't deny it! Why do you still attack people and call them fascists? What is that doing? Absolutely nothing. Stop wasting electricity to write all these stupid comments and get off your "intellectual" high horse.

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