Michael Turner: Staff irresponsible

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— The editorial staff of this newspaper demonstrated an amazing lack of community responsibility by recommending a "no" vote on one tax issue that addressed the deteriorating infrastructure of our community (roads) and then turning around and supporting a "yes" on a frills-packed, taxpayer-supported "fun palace" (recreation center).

The Citizens for a Community Recreation Center and the Editorial Board of this newspaper state that there are some important needs in this community. Their list includes an indoor leisure pool, indoor playground, office space, diving well (how many of you will actually use a diving well?) a "Lazy River," (whatever that is), and a lot more warm and fuzzy amenities that we taxpayers are expected to pay for.

While attending several candidates forums recently, I heard the candidates and citizens of this community discuss police, fire, roads, traffic, water, schools and development. I did not hear one concern about a warm leisure pool.

In a letter in last Sunday's edition, a teenager wrote that "we should act as responsible, educated adults and give them what they as teens deserve." As an educated adult, who will be saddled with paying the property tax for the next 20 years, I must point out that the laws of the state of Colorado say that what you deserve is a "free and appropriate public education." That is the only thing our tax dollars entitle you to. There is nothing in there about a rec center just to make you happy. Being happy is up to you and your parents, not the taxpayer.

We have been barraged with how important all of the teen amenities in this center are. Well, contrary to the belief of some, in the overall scheme of life, swim teams, soccer, diving wells, warm leisure pools and all of the other select amenities in this proposed recreation center will not be what produces a hard-working, productive, responsible adult. Responsible parenting, along with proper discipline and the free and appropriate education we taxpayers provide are what will really help them make it in the modern, globalized economy they will be facing in the working world as adults.

Another amenity this rec center is going to have at our expense is drop-in child care. Now remember, this is for people who are spending a lot of disposable income on fancy mailers and newspaper ads and are willing to spend $600 a year to be members. I have seen no mention of help for low-income families who might really need drop-in child care. When has it become the taxpayers' duty to provide child care and children's facilities so mothers juggling a Starbucks in one hand and a cell phone in another while driving their oversized SUV can drop their kids off to be entertained at taxpayers' expense?

This proposed recreation center is the epitome of the entitlement and "me" attitude that is doing far more harm to upcoming generations than a lack of swim lanes and play areas. I have no doubt I have just made some of you very angry. But I know there are a lot of people out there who are glad someone finally took off the kid gloves and said it like it really is. We are angry, too. The difference in membership fees for those who live outside of the city limits does not come close to making up the disparity for those who own property within the city limits and will be paying for this $66 million project for the next 20 years. This 67,000-square-foot Taj Mahal is not what our community needs.

Michael Turner

Steamboat Springs

Comments

Books 7 years, 1 month ago

honestythebestpolicy,

You have stooped to an all new low. The part you seem to overlook is that BG is a taxpayer, so am I. So are many others who support the rec center.

As long as there is an overcrowding problem at OTHS, there will be a new rec center on the ballot.

Vote YES on 2B & 2C

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

They are your words, BoulderGrad. You have to live with them. It's called accountability. If anyone wants to see them "in context" just click on BoulderGrad above and "view all".

Your statements above are mostly just arrogant and ridiculous, but this one "Old Town Hot Springs (which is downsizing from what it HAD in this new renovation)" is such a false statement and illustrates the lieing from your side. The whole story is that OTHS downsized TEMPORARILY for the hot pool renovation and in Phase II of the renovation plans include expanding their fitness area substantially. They haven't come to the taxpayers for a dime to cover any of those costs.

I'm not even an OTHS "proponent". Just a proponent of what will make the most sense for the whole community and FYI, getting community backing takes a history and record of providing credible information. I don't think most people are believing any of your info, and it might just all have to go back to the drawing board or be 100% privately funded.

See you at the polls. VOTE NO 2B & 2C.

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Zalobar 7 years, 1 month ago

The City does not need to start collecting property taxes for anything. This is a scam to start new taxes on unaware citizens. This is a County wide issue if property taxes are to be used. It also is a subversive way to discourage Tripplecrown sports by eliminating the playing fields at Ski Town Park. This location is also likely the brainchild of the pretty people who live on the hillsides around the south SS valley. They can see the lights at Ski Town Park and would rather see darkness to enhance their wilderness feel. As for the teens, if more of them were bringing in the hay, Spending time with and feeding desperately lonley animals and shoveling what that feed turns into they would be getting all the exercize they need and wouldnt have time to use some fancy rec, center.

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elkeye 7 years, 1 month ago

Rather than a proposed property tax on the property owners of the city of Steamboat Springs, the members of the City Council (sitting as the Steamboat Springs Redevelopment Authority) should have expanded the boundry of the Urban Renewal Authority to include the Ski Town Fields.

If within the Urban Renewal Boundry, the construction of a recreation center could be considered for funding with URA funds contributed by a larger tax base including "new" school and county property taxes and "new" sales taxes collected from tourists and others within the Urban Renewal Boundry.

User fees should be sufficient to preclude any operation deficit, however if users fees are not sufficient to prevent an operation deficit other revenue sources (e.g. a lift ticket tax) should be established before construction of any recreation center with URA funds.

After the construction of $25-50 million in base area improvements (including the promenade and infastructure), the Steamboat Springs Redevelopment Authority could consider a recreation center within the boundry of the Urban Renewal Authority.

Before a performing arts center funded by URA funds, why not a recreation center?

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jlkar 7 years, 1 month ago

Kielbasa... seems to me that your anger is a little out of control. So it is fine to speak to Elkeye and say that he is smoking crack when you question his commentary but it is not okay to tell a teenager that we don't agree with her letter. this issue certainly hasn't brought out the best in you. Great role model

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

WTF??? Where in Steamboat did the URA fund a performing arts center?? THERE IS NO PERFORMING ARTS CENTER! In fact, we lose the Steamboat Mountain Theater by this spring, due to Ski Time Square being redevoloped. What the hell are you smoking this morning, elkeye? Remember: today was "Fall Back," not "Smoke Crack."

And Zalobar- Who's intent on getting rid of TC? Guess what? If we lose TC, guess what revenues drop without anything to take it's place? Sales Tax revenue, that's what. Guess what pays for most of Steamboat in anything tax based? Sales Tax revenue, that's what.

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elkeye 7 years, 1 month ago

A performing arts center is just one of the many proposed uses for URA funds.

There is no performing arts center today, but others have proposed one across from the Steamboat Grand.

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

Great concept Elkeye.

The financial resources are available in this town to fulfill or at least partially fulfill this wish list privately. "BoulderGrad" even boasts that "Private funds have been raised, in over six figures, but none of the Letters of Intent are from Intrawest." Why aren't these monies mentioned in the initiative? And/or why isn't this fundraising at the forefront of your campaign? Partnering should be in place with Interwest as well as many other community members and businesses. As was stated, it would be great PR for them.

It is simply a huge missed opportunity not to even try to pursue these and then come to the table with some dollars $$$ and financial backing that solidifies the need/want before asking the taxpayers.

This rec center will be realized by other financial means if this ballot initiative fails that will include private funding as it should and needs to even to 100%.

Nothing will be lost by voting NO now, but do get to the polls because the yes's will certainly be doing that in mass so they don't have to do any more work (like us regular stiffs?) and can just get to the "fun" on everyone elses dime. VOTE NOW AND VOTE NO!

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dogd 7 years, 1 month ago

Excellent . The editorial board is not in touch with reality. Very weak stuff, people. There is no need for the rush-job being attempted concerning a rec center. The voters will speak loudly for a responsible process. No.

How about inviting Michael Turner to a term on the editorial board?

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thefarmer 7 years, 1 month ago

BoulderGrad (that's something I might not be proud of), the only place you are playing is in left field.

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JQPUBLIC 7 years, 1 month ago

Zalobar.... you are wrong, this is not a county wide issue. I doubt the people living in south routt would jump at the chance to pay for elaborate recreation amenities in steamboat. Steamboat would do exactly like they did when they elected the new sheriff, steamboat votes it in and the rest of the county is stuck with the consequences. Suggestion, make it a county wide vote to build it in Oak Creek or Yampa, it should be a lot cheaper to build there, that way steamboat will help do something for the south end of the county and steamboat citizens and tourists will be the ones to drive hwy131 all winter to use a facility they are forced to pay for. Think that would pass? Probably as fast as the stmbt school district jumped at the chance to share their tax money with the south routt schools.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

Elkeye- Where is your info coming from, then? Funny how my elected hobby is performing and NOWHERE have I seen this brought up in any URA plans. Ever. Provide a link or tell us all where you got your hands on this because it's news to me, and a whole bunch of other people, I'd imagine.

And where is "across from the Grand?" Are they tearing down the parking structures? Are you talking about the hill below the Grand, just before Mt. Werner Circle?? Plus, proposed means nothing. It means "maybe."

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Books 7 years, 1 month ago

Michael Turner "a "Lazy River," (whatever that is)".

Clearly, Michael doesn't get out much. Plenty of time to write letters, but no time to do a little research and come up to speed on what all is included in the rec center. He really should go visit one of these other rec centers and see for himself. I'll bet he would change his mind.

Read the letter, - "David W. Bishop, M.D.: Rec center satisfies"

He speaks of the things I've been trying to tell you. I have friends in Durango who tell me the same thing. Many of the people who campaigned the hardest against it, are now some of the biggest users.

To check out the proposed rec center go to:

http://www.yampavalley.info/ccrc.asp

Vote YES 2B & 2C.

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CindyMaddox 7 years, 1 month ago

I agree with Michael Turner on this one. This funding mechanism is way too much for our town. A property tax of this magnitude should be used for basic infrastructure, if at all.

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Zalobar 7 years, 1 month ago

JQ Public Now you are peaking out against reverse socialism. People of so. routt paying for something that others will benefit from. A lot of commuters come from so. routt to work here. here is the closest shopping. Drop the kids at the rec center and do errands. Stop at the rec center for a workout before going home to so. rt. They will too use it and I would be for it if some of the inequatable issues were addressed. The present rec center is used by people from all over routt county and Moffat etc. The way this is being presented, the price tag is just too high, no matter who uses it. Sorry.

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Books 7 years, 1 month ago

I heard that during a meeting on Halloween day, Michael was questioned about the vote no ads being wrong and misleading, his response was:

"We know that. We just figure that the people of Steamboat are smart enough to figure it out."

This is Michael's third letter ranting about how horrible the new rec center would be. Yet, he's never been to one.

Here's Michael unleashed: "so mothers juggling a Starbucks in one hand and a cell phone in another while driving their oversized SUV can drop their kids off to be entertained at taxpayers' expense?"

Does he have any idea how many hardworking moms he has just insulted?

At first I thought the Pilot staff was irresponsible, like he claims, not in backing the rec center, but by not editing Michael's insulting comments. But then I realized that by letting Michael off the leash, he tells the real story:

He hates moms that drink coffee.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

Talking adult to adult is one thing. Talking crap to a kid who isn't yours is another thing altogether. Plus, half the posts to Michelle had nothing to do with disagreeing with her. She signed her name and said she was 16yrs old. People told her to move or told her all she and her friends would do would be getting drunk instead of using the rec center. Someone thought she should try having a kid...to a 16yr old. Biiiiiiigggg difference.

Elkeye hasn't ID'd him/herself as a child, so I have no qualms about talking to another adult as such. When Elkeye provides misinformation without being able to back it up (you'll notice that pro-statements all contained my "speculations," not addressed as facts), then yeah: somebody's smoking crack.

Can you then provide where the URA is set up to put in a Performing Arts Center that Elkeye said? I doubt that you can.

Plus, I've have never led anyone to believe I'm a "nice" guy. I've never claimed moral superiority over anyone. I've never claimed to be a role model to anyone...ever! This is why I show who I am: so people know my motivations and know who they are talking to and what kind of person I am. It makes me face any repercussions for being who I am. I point out others' hypocrisy and wallow in my own. I admit it. That's the difference: nobody else I point it out to admits it.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

Snowy- So it looks like the Sheraton's parking structure will be torn down. Isn't that the Sheraton's private property? Have they agreed to this, considering that the area in question isn't all that large to support a Conference Center / Performing Arts Center?

I thank you for the link, and I apologize to Elkeye. This is something completely new to me, and I couldn't find it anywhere on the City site or even Googling 20 different ways to find it.

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PilotReader 7 years, 1 month ago

As we approach election day and voting on the proposed rec center, I hope as responsible adults we approach the decision based on relevant facts, looking for more light than heat. What do I mean? Let me offer a few examples.

It has been said that the proponents of the rec center have worked for two years to get it to the ballot this November. I accept this as true, ie factual, but it isn't a relevant fact when it comes to voting pro or con on the two rec center funding issues. The time it took, by itself, doesn't tell us very much at all about the quality of the work done by the group, rather that they persevered.

Some have said that we should vote yes because it will only cost more next year. This is both irrelevant and not demonstrably true. Why? Because this statement is based upon a series of assumptions only, not facts. It assumes we know what the rec center will cost both this year and next year, it assumes that the design is locked in concrete, it assumes that the issue will be on the ballot again next year if it fails this year, etc.

What then should we look for when we vote? Facts that are relevant, and enough of them to cover both the necessary and sufficient aspects of any decision.

What's necessary? Well facts like the cost of the rec center, the facilities it will contain, the location, how the initial cost and operating loss will be funded, at a minimum. Some of these are indeed factual, and some are near factual. But are these enough to make an informed decision?

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PilotReader 7 years, 1 month ago

While these facts are necessary, they present an insufficient basis upon which to make an informed decision. What additional facts are needed before we arrive at a sufficiency?

Again, a few examples. One fact that appears to be missing is an explanation of the apparent disconnect in the supporters argument that there is a great 'need' for the rec center, but there are no private enterprise firms willing to fill this need, so it must be met from public funds. In a town where we have attracted Wal-Mart, Staples, a big box sporting goods store, as well as a new owner to Ski Corp., it seems incongruous that on the one hand there is a need and on the other hand no private firm wishes to fill it. The supporters need to explain this disconnect.

Another example. The SS voters are asked to vote on the rec center more or less in isolation of any other issues that may be in the offing. While it may not be incumbent upon the rec center supporters to tell us what else we may be asked to pay for in the future, it certainly falls to the City Manager and City Council to do so. We know from past experience that there will be more issues on ballots in the coming years. We should expect that we have an idea of future requests, so that we can begin to distinguish where along the line from 'need' to 'want' to 'nice to have' each request lies.

Another example of additionally needed information to demonstrate a sufficiency. Again, it may not be the role of the rec center proponents group, but they along with the City Manager and City Council should be telling us where a public funded rec center lies in the physical, social, economic environments that will be Steamboat Springs in five, ten, fifteen years. Some have said we aren't a Vail or a Silverthorne or Rifle. I believe most residents would agree, but that doesn't tell us what we will be.

Until these and other additional facts are supplied it is difficult to make a responsible yes decision on the rec center.

See you at the polls.

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Books 7 years, 1 month ago

PilotReader

Many of your questions can be answered at the rec center web site:

http://www.yampavalley.info/ccrc.asp

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ejneill 7 years, 1 month ago

"Like Mike, If we could be like Mike"! Well said, you expressed what many people in town feel.........Love the part about the "mothers juggling Starbucks in one hand and a cellphone in the other".......my view is this, get your kids outside! And to all of you "suburbanites who wanted that mountain living", put the baby backpacker/baby jogger to use and let your kids experience one of the reasons you and your family moved here.......mother nature!

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anguspeeves 7 years, 1 month ago

This issue seems to have touched a nerve......it seems to me that this rec.center represents the change that has been occuring in Steamboat over the past few years. It has pitted the ones who need suburban/city convenience @ the price of others versus the ones who moved to a mountain town to live "off the beaten path". One hears it everyday in the community, how "Steamboat is just becoming the next Aspen". Many of the supporters of the rec. center do not see that this issue is more than building a rec. center for the youth of the community. In many minds, it represents the continued, uncontrolled gluttony that seems to be looming over the county.

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PilotReader 7 years, 1 month ago

Books-

Please excuse if this sounds rude, but it isn't meant to be.

Your suggestion that I go to a website, seems to me based upon several fallacious assumptions:

  1. That I am not familiar with this website, as well as much of the other information that has been distributed on the proposal for over one year now;
  2. That my 'examples' are a complete list of questions and if satisified will meet a sufficiency test; and
  3. That my posting was addressed to any individual, inviting a give and take.

All of these apparent assumptions are fallacious.

My posting was written to request that all voters approach their decisions on the basis of relevant facts and ask themselves if these are sufficient to merit a yes vote.

If I may, I suggest that supporters of the rec center would have better spent their time asking themselves what would have been a sufficient relevant set of facts for the rec center and then providing those. While some necessary facts have been supplied, it is difficult to see that they are sufficient.

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Zalobar 7 years, 1 month ago

Before you vote yes on the rec. center go to ski town park and have a look. Imagine all the things on the rec. center list in that field. Then try to imagine the parking lot to accomodate this rec. center. Then try to imagine 2 years form now and we have overgrown this facility and esp. its parking lot. Now imagine overflow parking running up and down hwy 40 on the shoulder. Ski town park is not big enough for a structure 4 times the size of Wallmart and have room left for parking. If we manage to stuff it all in there and 2 years from now it isn't big enough, to where do we expand this facility and its overflow parking? Ski Town park is a land locked area. No room to grow. So prevent another white elephant. If you dont believe me on this go to the Health and Rec. and look at how much land IT requires for its structures and parking. Then imagine all that on little ole Ski Town Park. It just wont fit. No matter who uses it, Sorry. How much did we pay those advisors who reccomended this? We didnt get our moneys worth. This is not rocket science.

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Zalobar 7 years, 1 month ago

How about put it on Skip Wise park, bridge the Yampa over to the island by the gazebo and put some of it there too, we could capture the warm water leaving the current Health and rec. to biuld it green. And the city already owns the land over by existing Parks and rec. so there is room for parking. This could connect the existing Health and rec., all the way to the Ice rink. Complimenting the entire area with more of what is already there. A lot could be done there with 37Mil. Best of all a river already runs through it!! Fishing anyone? This I could vote for esp. if the tax was county wide. Then pay me the fees those other rocket scientists ripped us off for. Yea I know, Im dreaming. At least I dream BIG!

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Books 7 years, 1 month ago

PilotReader It was obvious from your post that you weren't really looking for any answers, you just left the whole thing hanging as if there were a bunch of relevant questions that had not been answered. I supplied the website for anyone who really does want answers.

ejneill If there were any moms out there drinking coffee, sitting on the fence on this rec center, Michael just pushed them off. He said he wanted to take the gloves off but taking a swipe at a bunch of coffee drinking moms? :..Not a good idea. He's lucky they buried it on page 12.

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PilotReader 7 years, 1 month ago

Books-

Please show us voters where the group supporting the rec center has adequately explained the disconnect I described?

Please show us voters how the rec center stacks up in the range of needs that will be facing us in the next several years of elections. (This might seem unfair, but someone needs to tell us what the entire picture looks like, not simply ask us to make piecemeal decisions.)

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

BOULDERGRAD:

You have no credibility. You wasted your time & money in Boulder as you don't know what you are talking about at any given time. You are not a steward of the community. See ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS BELOW:

ALL BOULDERGRAD comments in chronological order from 7/11/07 - mostly concerning a rec center......

"And guess what! A committee has formed to start planning a rec center in Craig. What an embarrassment to have them beat us to it."

"FYI, this is what is being discussed. We can get an all-encompassing rec center for everyone in our community to use, without a TAX INCREASE. No property tax. No sales tax. This could be done without increasing our taxes: property or sales."

"Several sets of consultants now have reported, through surveys and studies and their own experience, that the citizens of Steamboat want and need a recreation center."

"From what I have learned (unpublished as of yet), a rec center may be able to be achieved responsibly and affordably. I know it sounds crazy, but please be patient. It will really be a benefit to everyone in our community."

"If you are outfitting a family full of kids, then you would also welcome a Gap Store"

"How about some more affordable restaurant options such as Chipotle, Tokyo Joe's, Olive Garden, Country Buffet, Red Robin, Carrabba's?"

"But right now, the Old Town Hot Springs (which is downsizing from what it HAD in this new renovation) "won't let" the proposed rec center do that. Why should our community stand to have a private business tell us what we can and cannot do?"

"Susan Dellinger and Karen Post are the council members who have come up with this latest scheme. Not only are they being fiscally irresponsible, they are being illegally influenced by the one Council member who has to recuse himself from the issue because he works at Old Town Hot Springs."

"The details for the rec center are being finalized, but I think a couple of free things for the kids would be the outdoor skatepark and the turf field."

more to follow...

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

MORE BoulderGrad Quotes:.

"Are you computer savvy enough to read this? I hope so. If not, call the City and ask for the figures yourself."

"Obviously, paddlefisher, you didn't make it through school. "

"Ask the county commissioners why they won't be included. Those outside the city limits will have a slightly higher cost to get in, as they are not paying property tax. "

"As I have said, a rec center WILL happen. Pay now, or pay later. "

"Another thing to consider, if this doesn't pass, the project could very well go back to the Curci-Turner site, as that is 33 acres of city-owned property. I would think every homeowner in that neighborhood would have a yard sign in their yard, and be fully in support of the Tennis Bubble site. Don't you? "

"In closing, how about we all meet at Centennial Hall one night and battle it out in a vat of jello?"

"Slap on a Speedo, Mr. Turner, and have some fun with the rest of us!"

"Also, one of our Letters to the Editor also disclosed this fact but the paper didn't choose to run this one."

"There was organized neighborhood opposition to the Curci-Turner site, which many still feel is perfect."

"If the Curci Turner neighbors were smart, every one of them would have a yard sign out in their yard right now, and get this thing passed."

.....WOW BoulderGRAD, seems you're not above naming names on this anonymous forum when it suits you?

If YOU were smart YOU would not have to resort to threats and lies to get what YOU want. YOU would go do the real work and achieve a solution honestly that the community wants and REALLY do some community building at the same time. And not take advantage of any more taxpayer dollars. Enough. Not like you weren't told that along the way. I hope the right people can still make it happen.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

BG- don't forget that they'll also cut & paste it on every thread possible because repetition means "truth."

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beagle 7 years, 1 month ago

honestythebest: (or you could have named yourself "virtuous" or something equally laughable)
I'm not sure what you think you proved except the fact that you're the one who has a problem. Look back - It's funny how none of the YES people have stooped to the levels of several of the NO people. BG's comments have been fine. Get over yourself.

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Sunspot 7 years, 1 month ago

I agree with beagle, personal attacks just aren't necessary.

I would like to thank BoulderGrad and others for their hard work and perseverance in getting the rec center on the ballot. I know there were many choices and many decisions that had to be made. It's always easy for some angry person to come along and have a problem with something or another.

honesty I am a taxpayer too, and I voted YES on 2B & 2C.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

Actually, I did stoop, but it had to do with the URA/Perf. Arts part, Snowysteamboat was nice enough to find the link to a plan. I'm still skeptical as to whether it will happen, though. I can hope!

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btheball 7 years, 1 month ago

I have witnessed stooping from both sides. Books has made many downbeat personal comments to opposing commenters that had no bearing on the question of yes or no. at least kielbasa can admit it. Quoting someone and providing the source for that quote is not making a personal attack. I see some pretty low blow statements in those that don't have anything to do with the question.

Come on guys, everyone has a right to their opinion. No one said any one side doesn't have a right to a vote as a taxpayer. Whats wrong with virtuosity? Just stick to the facts. Good this will be over.

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ventrygirl 7 years, 1 month ago

To all you bloggers and floggers, I hope you can tear yourselves away from your keyboard today and vote. Tonight's results will speak loud and clear about the proposed rec center.

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beagle 7 years, 1 month ago

btheball - it wasn't just quotes, htbc accused BG of "threats and lies" which I just don't see. Guess you didn't get the joke about naming himself 'honesty' or 'virtuous!' I haven't been passionate about this issue, just can't help but notice that it's some of the NO's who have lost their perspective. It's just a rec center vote. It's not like it's a nuclear power plant!

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another_local 7 years, 1 month ago

I don't see lies and deliberate distortions. I do think that some people are mistaken and do not understand the fundamental unfairness of this initiative. Honest but mistaken opinions are both common and not a cause for censure and name calling. There is a good supply of rose-colored glasses being handed out somewhere around here. I hope enough people take them off to see this boondoggle for what it is.

Thankfully the lines today were very short. Voting took 10 minutes from the time I got out of my car until I was back in it.

Count me as a NO.

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Books 7 years, 1 month ago

You're right I did throw one or two, but I didn't fill up two full pages.

I guess I owe Michael an apology. When I heard that I got a kick out of it, so I shared it. Sorry. I figured that if he is willing to publicly attack moms drinking coffee he should be able to stand up to it.

This rec center blog has been one on the meanest. I have been attacked many times on here. Every time someone got on here to say something good about the rec center, they were attacked often times very rudely. Attacking the rec center people became some sort of standard. Go back and look at BoulderGrad's comments from a month ago and see how mean the other bloggers were. Honestythebest has singled out BoulderGrad for attack in at least 10 posts, many of them very mean comments. And it's worst than that, they all know who BoulderGrad is so their attacks are really meant to hurt.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

ventrygirl- Yep! Voted at 7:05am this morning and as another_local said, took me about 10min.

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

Books - The I signed into this blog with a comment that was not directed at anyone and you and BoulderGrad addressed me specifically back, so I answered you back specifically . I do not know what you mean by "they" and don't have any control over other bloggers. I didn't fill up two pages with anything but quotes that if BG is not proud and can't stand behind is not of my doing. Yes, one should be able to stand behind what someone says.

You threw in more than one or two. So, it's OK for you guys, and just one or two are OK? If we all know who each other are then you know it wasn't I who started the namecalling & meaness and that my intentions are as good as anyone elses regarding wanting this rec center and I have certainly felt attacked too.

Beagle & a-l, I read the BG statement "Old Town Hot Springs (which is downsizing from what it HAD in this new renovation)" as a lie simply because I know they know this isn't the case, and it isn't. I don't know what else to call that. I read the following BG quotes

"As I have said, a rec center WILL happen. Pay now, or pay later. " and the

"There was organized neighborhood opposition to the Curci-Turner site, which many still feel is perfect."

"If the Curci Turner neighbors were smart, every one of them would have a yard sign out in their yard right now, and get this thing passed."

as threats to that neighborhood that if this fails now that they will have to fight their fight again which is not what I would call community building and is just my read based the information I have which is different from yours.

Maybe healing over this can happen but when was I ever given a chance? I was the Rec Center's BIGGEST FAN and now I am angry that it might fail because of how it has all been mishandled and yes, because of how people have been treated meanly over it. BG and Books - you are not victims.

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ejneill 7 years, 1 month ago

To Books: It seems strange to me that you are so focused and easily upset by what Michael and I included in our statements on "starbuck coffee drinking moms". It's not meant to be taken literally, but to be used as a stereotype of who the community is visualizing when standing at the voting booth and pondering which way to vote....... lighten up francis!

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fishy 7 years, 1 month ago

ej - oh right! books just poked you two where you most deserved it is all. should I make up a good stereotype of the typical person voting no so people can "visualize that when standing at the voting booth?" thankfully it's almost over so i can quit reading junk like this.

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titsikama 7 years, 1 month ago

fishy-Amen! I have my own sterotype for those people. Oh, I also claim to know exactly what there morals and values are, how they raise their children, what car they drive and how their mother treated them when they born! Do you guys always vote on "stereotypes"? Scary!

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

titsikama - thats your problem, you base your world on stereotypes. Probably why you care about what kind of cars people drive. Yea, scary. Well see what the populus says...

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fishy 7 years, 1 month ago

whoa! did titsikama's comment really fly right over your head? this is getting comical.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 1 month ago

I've moved into the new millennium: I don't stereotype; I Surroundotype!

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

No, just the pot calling the kettle black again. Flew right over your head.

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titsikama 7 years, 1 month ago

honestthebestpolicy, I think you missed my sarcism, I actually do not base my votes or my comments on stereotypes. If I did, I would say what I think would be an appropriate stereotype. Sorry you didn't get it.

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

Good to hear. You guys should stop. You are the ones that aren't about meaness, right? When it suits your arguement? I got the sarcasm. It wasn't hard. I just thought it was hyprcritical. It you want to throw out your "stereotype" (that you say you don't do), you should. It would befit this latest digression. Let the populus decide. That's what you professed, right?

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titsikama 7 years, 1 month ago

Please elborate on what I said as being hypocrital. I didn't say it because it isn't apporiate. I have no idea who these people are (well other then Michael Turner), what they do, their relegion, how they raise their kids or anything of that nature. That is why I don't say it. It is not relevant. If they want' to argue why people should vote no, I don't have a problem with that. That is the way a democracy works. I do have a problem with people making public personal statements or stereotypes(or using them as a method of voting) for which they know nothing about. I sense you have something personal you are trying to say. As a pulic blog is not a place for personal conversations I will respond no further. I am sure you know how to contact me if you desire to say something more.

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honestythebestpolicy 7 years, 1 month ago

Your sense is wrong. I don't have anything personal to say. I am exercising my right, as everyone else, to free speech. I was called out specifically, and I answered. And you know, I don't know who your are - titsikama.

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ejneill 7 years, 1 month ago

titsikama, learn how to spell, it'll carry your point further....looks like the rec. center issue is failing............

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Russell Orms 7 years, 1 month ago

I get tiredhead reading all the back and forth of comments about the rec center. 80% voted against and that should end the discussion. Let's hope the newly elected city council members remember that if they are pressured to modify the plans or the financing options in the future.

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