Cliff and Robin Loeb: Rules not needed
Wednesday, June 20, 2007
We would like to voice our displeasure with the proposed ordinance regarding vacation rentals by homeowners. It seems that this ordinance is unnecessary as the problems cited are already addressed legally by existing ordinances, which limit noise, public nuisance and disturbances.
Furthermore, this ordinance will likely not alleviate the perceived problems. Long-term rentals and even residents may cause the same problems for their neighbors. This ordinance is also a discriminatory restriction to the property owners who may have bought the property based solely on the intention to rent the property.
In summary, it seems ridiculous to us that a city council in a resort area would put a significant portion of the Steamboat ecosystem income in jeopardy because of the complaints from one homeowners association for an incident that could have just as easily occurred had the home been occupied by its owners.
Cliff and Robin Loeb
Steamboat Springs
Comments
beentheredonethat 5 years, 11 months ago
all true, but you forget steamboat springs is run by a fascist city council, which imposes rules and regulations with much deliberation but ruefully little wisdom.
cliffordcousa 5 years, 11 months ago
The more I think about it, the city council would better serve the community by banning weddings in Steamboat than by shutting down residential rentals.
Cliff Loeb
Pilatus 5 years, 11 months ago
Amen! Like most lawmakers they think more laws will fix the problem when they are not enforcing the current ones...simply posturing to further their own agendas.
corduroy 5 years, 11 months ago
somehow I really can't feel bad for people renting out homes they don't even live in when a lot of this town can't even afford to buy a home. wah wah wah
cliffordcousa 5 years, 11 months ago
This response is to the individual that posted the response about not feeling bad for people renting out homes...
First of all, the issue isn't about owning real estate, the issue is whether you believe that the goverment can dictate to a homeowner his or her right to rent their property? And what about changing the rules after purchase? Is that fair?
The other fundamental issue is financial. In any city with rentals, but especially in a resort town like Steamboat, the important thing is to think about how much money is pumped into the Steamboat financial eco-system from rentals?
As soon as rentals get eliminated, so goes the money pumped into the Steamboat financial eco-system. How many jobs will be lost? Not only might you not be able to buy a home, you might not have an income at all.
Rental properties pump money into the eco-system in three ways: 1) Each rental requires the hiring and paying of multiple services (cleaning, maintenance, snow plow, gas, electric, property management). The people who get paid for these services then use this money to purchase more goods and services in Steamboat. 2) the rentors typically spend money in the Steamboat area on things like restaurants, lift tickets, baloon rides, ski lessons, food, liquor, souvenirs, etc. 3)the people renting their homes pay sales tax which pumps even more money into the eco-system. All this money translates into JOBS.
The Steamboat Town Council is "throwing the baby out with the bath-water" and being incredibly short sighted. They are putting an ordinance in place to try and solve a problem for which rules and regulations already exist. The problem that precipitated this ordinancewas a roudy wedding in a residential rental. Roudy weddings could just as easily happen in homes that aren't rented. The Steamboat town council would have better luck in preventing this problem by banning weddings in Steamboat than in shutting down residential rentals.
As an example, the eco-system of Key Largo Florida is just a shell of it's former wealth due to the elimination of residential rentals. Jobs are in short supply, local businesses have closed and people who are fortunate enought to have jobs need to live many miles away from their work.
As history has shown time and again, when government irresponsibly limits rights to free enterprise, the economy suffers.
Your job and those of your friends could be at stake here. Think about it.
Sincerely, Cliff Loeb
trollunderthebridge 5 years, 11 months ago
Interestingly enough here is what Councilman Brenner stated publicly at City Council with regard both Vacation Home Rentals and your possible new neighbor. "we need to do this to stop people buying homes that they cannot afford and offsetting the cost using rental income".
SangriaMama 5 years, 11 months ago
You don't want believe that ulterior motives are at play but here it is plain and simple. What is Brenner doing when he says that you cannot invest in property, in our red hot real estate market. Is it just because he wishes he had when he got here (wouldn't have to beg for a golf pass if he had).
The process at play here is like watching a committee trying to design a horse. What is coming out looks much worse than a camel. The debate and discussion is now entirely random. You might strike it lucky but the chances are that this new VHR ordinance is a done deal.
It's a shame. Our Planning Director seems powerless to point out that this is a workload that he doesn't need or want. In May 2006 he asked that the VHR permits be made permanent due to lack of complaints. Now he has a permit that is double or triple the work, he is being asked to ruthlessly enforce it, and administer all the new provisions, for a problem that he know does not exist. Why does he not speak up - company politics I guess.
Reminds me of the bigger government fighting the war on terror in Afghanistan post 9/11 with world support, and suddenly we're in Iraq dealing with an insurgency. Ooops, getting a little metaphorical I know, but this council has fueled an insurgency regarding VHR's from which they refuse to withdraw. Remarkable similarities.
Where is the United Nations when we need it - why can't we sit down and talk about this? Does this Government also reject diplomacy before implementing "shock and awe" legislation?
jeannie berger 5 years, 11 months ago
actually I think Ken was born here in SS. He isn't a johnny come lately
SangriaMama 5 years, 11 months ago
What kind of Johnny then?
trollunderthebridge 5 years, 11 months ago
No. What Mr. Benner is saying is "if you can't afford to buy a home here don't buy one" .
Pilatus 5 years, 11 months ago
I'm suprised these guys haven't thrown up the "transaction fee" on real estate like Summit County. That's why I got the &*%@ out of there!
JQPUBLIC 5 years, 11 months ago
trollunderthe bridge.... If we don't stop people from buying houses they cannot afford, how will the council justify affordable housing?
Pilatus.... don't you think these guys have enough bright ideas, you have to go and give them something else to consider?
Alan Geye 5 years, 11 months ago
Wow, there sure seems to be a lot of disinformation and real "heat" presented here. Comments about a facist city council, depriving folks of their rights, etc. But to me, when one cuts to the chase, I have to remind myself, what is the purpose of government? In some respects, it is to protect us from ourselves.
Think about why we have zoning. It's about protecting neighborhoods from business intrusion and all the consequences that would bring. This whole discussion is all about establishing reasonable limits, just like the practice of zoning. In this particular case, the camel was allowed to stick his nose under the tent, and the situation was allowed to deteriorate (without reasonable controls) such that residential neighborhoods WERE adversely affected. I'm certainly supportive of most business interests, but these business interests were allowed to develop to an extent that they caused clear damage to residential neighborhoods. That's why the majority of us believe in zoning.
So, what does the proposed ordinance do, it reestablishes the priorities of residential neighborhoods and places appropriate limits on business development in those neighborhoods. End of question.
cliffordcousa 5 years, 11 months ago
Other than the rowdy wedding of a few years ago, what incidents have occured and to what adverse affects are you refering relative to residential rentals?
I believe in zoning too. However there is a big difference between "commercial interests" putting up a shopping center in a residential neighborhood and someone renting their home out.
Relative to reasonable limits, I suggest a careful reading of the ordinance. The requirements and limitations are not reasonable, difficult to enforce, mired in bureaucratic process, will require large efforts to administer and unfair. Of course this is my opinion, but I suspect that this sentiment is held by a large number of people whose inputs the town council has chosen to completely ignore.
Cliff Loeb
SangriaMama 5 years, 11 months ago
Real Estate investment is a fact of life. It is part of the American way. Before we get side-tracked on where it will take us, let's get back to the fact that we are entitled to do this.
City Council members stated last week that it was their goal though the new VHR regulations to prevent people from doing something that they have been free to do for over 30 years - buy a house and rent it out.
As the City Staff have failed to provide a body of evidence that suggests that VHR's create real documented impacts they are going our on a limb by now attempting to remove this right. Tax-payers dollars will be wasted defending a property rights class-action lawsuit if they continue down this road.
We have to work together, but we have to do this is a reasonable way or this issue will continue to divide our residents.
dogd 5 years, 11 months ago
Cliff: You (and other outsiders like sangria )do not think of this place primarily as a town. You think of this place as an investment opportunity which happens, by the way, to be a town,( but so what)?
Some of us still want it to be a town, and would like the "little hotels" to have "requirements and limitations" more restrictive than those proposed. Your involvement makes it just that much tougher for an actual productive resident to get into a house. (Yes I own a couple here).
You wanna get into the hotel business? Get together a team and a strategy; get a commercial loan, buy some land and build one.
JQPUBLIC 5 years, 11 months ago
dogd... Question, you told "the outsiders" that they think of this place as an investment opportunity, out of curiosity, do you live in more than one of the houses you own?
You can't blame Cliff, as long as there is money to be made, someone will be there with the backing to exploit it.... you say "Some of us still want it to be a town", you're way past that, you live in a ski & tourist town where there is money to be made, the locals will never be number one again. Tourism is driven by business owners and politicians, you're in a vicious circle and you can't stop it. Steamboat has promoted itself into another Vail/Aspen on the backs of the working class; now that the wealthy are here, the council can do the "feel good" and "we care" projects that is supposed to appease the working class (even though the taxpayers are paying for it). The "good ol' days" are gone...Welcome to "Aspen in the Boat".
cliffordcousa 5 years, 11 months ago
Hi Dogd - I don't think it's a credible arguement to tell me what I think or what my sentiments are towards Steamboat. How would you know what they are?
Additionally, my issue is that I don't think the City Council has listened to the majority of its constituents... and I think they have put an ordinance in place that does not solve any real issues, including the ones that are mentioned in your posting. And additionally, this ordinance will create an enforcement and administrative nightmare.
If you believe differently, please respond once you've carefully read the ordinance and please point out specifically what problems it will solve.
Relative to the fact that you own a number of homes, how do you feel / would you feel about the city restricting your use or posibilities for use of these homes? Especially after the fact of your purchase?
Also, I have put my name out there...why haven't you?
dogd 5 years, 11 months ago
JQ: Recent elections put the lie to most of your assertions. We are NOT past or "way past" being a town. Dream on mr. turkey. I live in one of my houses and do not attempt to utilize the other one as a hotel. I know Aspen pretty well. There is very very little correlation to Steamboat at this point in time. Ours is still a very unique story, and the mark of an outsider is to try to simplify this story by using the name of another town.
Actually, some of the most effective defenders of the Steamboat Springs-as-a-town concept haven't been here all that long. My use of the concept "outsider" is not necessarily based on length of time living here. I know unassimilated turkeys who have been here twenty years.
corduroy 5 years, 11 months ago
I got here too late...
cliffordcousa 5 years, 11 months ago
Hi Sangria, I think what you are saying makes sense. I would like to be included in the "we" that you mention.
I would also like to understand the process for overturning city council decisions... In other cities, there needs to be a petition with enough votes to cause a referendum to be voted on.
Does anyone know the process in Steamboat Springs?
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