Jack Horner: Cyclists beware

slow_rider 5 years, 11 months ago

There are no roads in Routt County that have "bike lanes" as you describe them. The control line is there on the right to encourage motorists to drive differently. This line does provide the vulnerable cyclists of our community some refuge on our narrow and twisty county roads, but in most cases it's no fun to ride there as this is not a paved 4 ft wide lane, but a narrow edge to the road with road debris, potholes and uneven surfaces to challenge the alertness of any rider.

This is why our roads need to be improved and this is why the County Commissioners and City officials are working so diligently to make this a more bicycle friendly community.

Cyclists are legitimate road users too. We are tax paying citizens just like you. We are people that also own trucks and haul things occasionally so we know where you are coming from. We know things have to be improved around here because so many residents of and visitors to this beautiful part of the world chose to travel and explore by bicycle. Cycling is healthy, creates zero environmental impact, reduces congestion (just imagine if we all traveled by bike) and should not be considered a dangerous and risky mode of travel. Our well traveled roads desperately need widening to include proper bike lanes and our politicians need to hear about these issues and the need to solve them.

Thank you so much for bring this up. Let's hope that we all win some day!

steamvent 5 years, 11 months ago

As a local driver and cyclist, I appreciate the situation Mr. Horner voiced. Cyclists who ride two or three abreast are inviting disaster and unnecessarily annoying drivers who encounter them. That behavior increases the risk for all cyclists. Most local drivers are extremely courteous, but some things they might consider when approaching a cyclist are: that white stripe along the road has no more legal significance to a cyclist than it does to the driver of a three ton dually pulling a horse trailer and is a far more dangerous part of the road surface to a cyclist than to any vehicle that might cross it: for many cyclists, it is a pretty vulnerable feeling to be inching to the right as far as possible, while not giving up a safe piece of surface; I know I am most vulnerable when a vehicle chooses to pass me on a blind corner or hill and crosses a double yellow to do so because, as Mr. Horner describes, I am the one that will get taken out when things go wrong. Mr. Horner might consider that he has now published an open threat, and if he does hit a cyslist in his lifetime, he will lose far more than his truck, trailer and horses. Lets all be safe.

Hadleyburg_Press 5 years, 11 months ago

A car or a horse seem to be more valuable to Mr. Horner than a human life. Nice priorities. Why instill a thinly veiled threat into what could have been a constructive and worthwhile criticism? Or do you just have something against spandex?

kneedropper 5 years, 11 months ago

Obviously everyone else's life and property is worth less than jack's. I hope someone as agro as Jack comes up on a truck around a blind corner and wipes him and his horses off the planet. Why can't we just slow the heck down and find a safe place to pass?

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Way to go Jack. I am with you.

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

slow rider sez: "Cycling is healthy, creates zero environmental impact, reduces congestion...". Congestion? Try looking behind you when you are pedaling up 129, and become aware of the congestion you create by taking it easy, maintaining your health etc.

fanofsteamboatsprings 5 years, 11 months ago

I have seen this mentality before and clearly Mr. Horner is choosing to ignore the existing laws and simple courtesy. This is a county maintained public road. Motorists have the right to drive on this road, cyclists have the right to ride on this road, runners have the right to jog along this road, farmers have the right to move their machinery up and down this road and ranchers have the right to move their livestock up and down this road. Yet whenever Mr. Horner gets behind the wheel of his truck, EVERYONE else is expected to get out his way. Mr. Horner is the kind of driver who will be pulling his trailer at 5-10 mph below the speed limit with cars stacked up behind him and will never pull over.

What an idiot. It is clear that Mr. Horner is just waiting for the chance to take out a cyclist, no matter the situation.

steamboatskier 5 years, 11 months ago

I used to ride my bicycle from my parents house on 129 (only three miles) to town 10-12 years ago. It was scary then. After being run off the road into the ditch, I changed my route. I would ride up mad creek; and catch the hotsprings road down, just to avoid the narrow two lane road. I can't imagine risking my life to ride up 129 today, let alone three even four abreast at times. I am an avid bicycle rider, and have enjoyed riding around our beautiful town and county, but until the county has in its budget to widen some of our roads, I will stay WAY AWAY! Not to mention, it appears the county is getting ready to increase the speed limit in areas on 129, creating faster traffic unable to slow down on blind corners.

awsa 5 years, 11 months ago

Mr. Horner's viewpoint is both selfish and uniformed. He might want to at least look at the Colorado Motor Vehicle law before making statements about it. There is nothing that states that cyclists must remain to the right of the white line. Cyclist are simply expected to right as far right as "practicable" and safe.

If he is unable to pass other vehicles (bicyclists) safely, then he is driving recklessly. End of story. He is the one breaking the law.

upstream 5 years, 11 months ago

oh come on jack and dundalk...you cannot be for real. Is this the same "it's all about me attitude" you'll take when haying season starts and our neighbors begin to move their equipment at 20 mph along the county roads and state highways? How about when they need to move their cattle and sheep? Our roadways are just that- OUR roadways. I don't ride a roadbike- never have- and I don't have farm equipment or animals. But, I did learn how to respect them and share the road with them way back when I learned to drive. How about some code enforcement RCSO? Sounds to me like we have a few neighbors needing a driver's refresher course. Oh, and assuming your moniker is a reference to the Irish bordertown of Dundalk- you may be shocked and horrified to learn that in Ireland cars must always yield first to horses and livestock, then to farm equipment, bicyclists and pedestrians. They learned to share some mighty sparse roads fado, fado. Perhaps we can take a lesson. Ride on.

slow_rider 5 years, 11 months ago

Great comments from many in our community (and a few so low that they don't deserve a response). Now we should be talking about making changes. These are OUR roads and our government officials will improve them if enough of us say that it's a priority.

Education of bicyclists and other road users will help in the meantime. "Share the Road" is not just a bumper sticker it's about realizing that you are not the only show in town and that whatever your preference, spandex or blue jeans, we each have a right to use the road responsibly. With the pace of change going on this valley and a cycling friendly government the time to make changes that will be better for everyone is NOW!

corduroy 5 years, 11 months ago

I'm a biker and a driver. I refuse to bike on Elk River Road for just those reasons, there is no shoulder, there's nowhere to go. It stinks not being able to commute because of this, but I also wouldn't want to risk my dog's life as she always joins me. I've never heard that you should honk at a bicyclist. If anything that would make me fall off! Just slow down and pass with enough room if the biker would fall for any reason, they will not get hit by your vehicle. Honking just startles people, that's really unsafe!

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

up stream:

RCSO can't do any code enforcement as you suggest since their patrol cars seem more content being in Vernal, Utah.

No need to tell me about the driving laws in Ireland. I was just there, and did just fine. I am well aware of the small roads.

My opinion is that there tends to be a little irritation with bikers because often times you don't see them riding single file when they should, are almost militant and atagonistic when vehicles are trailing behind them, and they usually are unaware that they must follow the same laws of the road as cars.

Cead Mile failte!

Jon Casson 5 years, 11 months ago

Common courtesy, Jack. Slow down and be patient- its really not that big of a deal. Definitely not big enough to threaten someone else's safety. Would you run your neighbors off the road when they're out for an evening stroll? Get a grip....

localvelofan 5 years, 11 months ago

Maybe Jack Horner should realized that he won't be doing anything w/ those "special" horses of his once he purposely takes a human life. There is not one person in this valley that is so important that they can justify taking a human life because that couldn't slow down to "snails speed" to safely pass a cyclist. Get educated and repeat after me Jack "Share The Road"!!

Vince arroyo 5 years, 11 months ago

Is driving a right or a privilege??? That statement made by Mr Horner is down right fearful !! Now why did the Pilot/Today even publish that? This is sensationalizing to its utmost limits. Is readership Down? That is an out right open season threat to all parties. Now what will be done with that remains to unfold.

SangriaMama 5 years, 11 months ago

Come on Horner - share the road! No one wants to see a rider lose their life for the sake of your driving attitude. Did you think you would get support here? You are way out of line.

County officials - listen up! Make our roads safer! If the bikers were in a proper bike lane they would be out of the way of the motorists (with their horse trailers) and everyone could be happy (and safe).

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Sangria: Maybe we can create a tax for bikers! If they are so adamant about wanting a bike lane, then the state can tax them for the lane.

acbike 5 years, 11 months ago

It is frightening to read that somebody will take you out because he could not wait a few seconds to make a safe pass! The whole letter is scary: he thinks that others use "his highway", he thinks that he should blow his horn, he thinks that a cyclist should on the right side of the white line. I believe that the Sheriff should have a talk with this guy. After all, he is publicly threatening to take somebody out. That would be a premeditated offense! On the other hand, he is totally right about cyclists riding 2 or more abreast on narrow roads like 129. Riders must as well follow the traffic rules. But, if they make a mistake, they should not be intentionally killed.

Hadleyburg_Press 5 years, 11 months ago

So now you want to double tax the bikers because you don't like sharing a road that is in disrepair? How about increasing taxes for SUV drivers that take up more of the road, are harder on surfaces, and require one and a half parking spots? Should you have to pay an extra tax every time you walk your dog on the Yampa Core Trail? Come on Dundalk, you are more intelligent than that. I do fully agree with you that it is reasonable to expect bike riders to ride single file. That is valid constructive criticism. So, take some of that incredible compassion that you have for animals and share it with the human cycling community. If need be, try thinking of them as spandex wearing monkies...that drink Guiness as well. :)

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Hey Hadley...I was being sarcastic! And yes, we'll have a pint on that!

fish 5 years, 11 months ago

You hear bikers say all the time that drivers need to be patient and wait for a clear area to pass the 3-4 bikers riding abreast, but you never hear of them moving into single file and making room for the auto to safely steer past them. They have us drivers convinced that they can't hear what is going on behind them and they simplly don't realize there is a line of cars in back of them. I realize that drivers need to be more curteous but I guess that road hog bikers are free to act like a---les. In a large biking event like Ride the Rockies you still see many of the bike road hogs. You would think that organizers would stress the need to stay in single file except when passing, and that they must pass safely.

Hadleyburg_Press 5 years, 11 months ago

You were being sarcastic! Hard to believe... Must be that caustic Irish wit. Cheers and always go for the full yard when in doubt.

SangriaMama 5 years, 11 months ago

Dundalk, there you go again. It is not just YOUR road. It belongs to all of us. If you want more exclusive use of the road for your truck and cars (and bikers have truck and cars to...so it's not totally an "us and them" situation here) then we should all contribute to the inevitable cost.

The cost would be little compared to the improvement in quality of road experience that we are all looking for.

In my experience the story about bikers riding three abreast is the exception rather than the rule. Most of the riders are just not that brave or stupid.

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 11 months ago

All I can say is that this morning, as I was heading into town for a couple of errands, around 8:45am near the blind corner just east of M&M's Auto, Ride the Rockies bicyclists passing each other to where it was 4 side by side...on a blind curve...with a big dump truck heading westward moving halfway into the eastbound morning traffic that comes from all points west of Steamboat. Saw 3 or 4 across a few more times even before 7-11. A few almost came close to losing their lives by pasing thru that red light there instead of stopping.

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Sangria:

Yesterday, while at work, I had the opportunity to hear several comments regarding this whole bike/road/car issue. All types of people chimed in with their opinions.

The MAJORITY of the comments were that the bikers were rude, in direct violation of the laws for their sport, were causing massive traffic delays along the bike route, and in a few cases, caused other bikers to have accidents.

These comments were not from any particular "pro bike" or "pro car" group but from people who obviously were observing the mess that was created by bikers not adhering to the law.

I pay taxes thus I contribute to the bike path in town. I pay taxes which allow me to walk in the forest and even up certain trails near by such as Spring Creek, Mad Creek, etc. I walk my dog and have on more than one occassion almost been run off the trail by some "spandex monkey" pontificating to me about how I need to be in control.

To that, "pound sand".!!!!

I don't have a problem with bikers per se, but I do have an aversion to those bikers who act as though they are above the law. Why that belief? The bikers I speak with go on and on about how they are saving the environment, creating harmony, cutting down on traffic snarls, etc. I say 'bully for you". But if while creating a lovely earth, the bikers manage to create extreme discourse and safety issues for those of us who drive autos then where's the justice?

I have learned that people are calling Jack Horner and using disparaging speech towards him at his place of business, and are in an uproar about his letter in Sunday's paper. Just how does that go down for you? Jack drives narrow roads every single day and often times encounters the biking population in spades. So, he spoke off the cuff - people have their biking shorts in a wad, and all you can come up with is "bike lanes" and that we should all come up with the "inevitable cost"?

madmoores 5 years, 11 months ago

As a biker/driver I seem to agree, and disagree, with Mr. Horner's frustrations. I ride a mountain bike that ocassionally takes me onto the road during some rides and riding 129 is like running the gauntlet. I have been "side-view mirrored" before and it is a frightful experience none the less. I now have a torn rotator cuff, scarred knees & elbows(brake lever entered left elbow)and one broken helmet, not to mention the few hundred dollars in repair to the bike. Think that driver stopped to help? NOT!! I ride off the side as a common courtesy as well as for my own safety but I realize that not all riders are able to do that. As a driver however there seems to be a HUGE lack of respect from the roadies when it comes to sharing the road as you all say must be done. I have happened upon packs of these cyclists that downright refuse to ride in a single file line, at least close to the white line as safely possible, and would rather flip me the finger or spit on my vehicle as I attempt to inch my way around them than "share the road" as must lawfully be done. I do not condone the comments by Mr. Horner, as taking one of these "roadies" out will only get you sued for everything you have, but I have to wonder if his frustration comes from the same experience's while driving that I have had. I have not been rude, I do not honk my horn to request passage and I only will pass when safe for me to do so however I almost always encounter the "attitude" common to these road bikers when trying to get around their packs, WHY??? I know everyone is not safe and courteous anymore but these types of attitudes are what spawn letters like Mr. Horner's and if courtesy ran BOTH ways you might see less of this stuff happening. This is not safety for the biker only but also safety for the motorist who is driving a 1-3 ton(or larger)vehicle that will always win in a situation involving a biker. Imagine the carnage if a vehicle tried to pass a 3-4 abreast pack of stubborn cyclists, like those who refuse to "share the road" properly, and was creamed by another vehicle travelling the opposite direction. Not only would there be two drivers injured(or killed) but I'll bet there just might be a couple mangled(or dead)cyclists as well. My instinct would NOT be pulling farther into the oncoming lane but to the right to avoid being hit and if there is a cyclist(s) there that was not sharing the road properly they might just be injured as well. Nothing intentional, only pure instinct and unfortunately for the roadie I will not "take the hit" for them. Never forget this though: Even if it is clearly the cyclists fault, they will always win in the lawsuit arena, always. Threatining to take them out has only set Mr. Horner up for trouble and he should be contacted by the law regarding his threat(s). Share the road applies to ALL road users, not just motorists.

Jon Casson 5 years, 11 months ago

All Jack had to do was point out an issue and ask bikers to adhere to the laws of the road by riding single file in dangerous areas. He could have contacted the RCR, spoken to county officials, even written a "nicer" letter to the pilot.

Instead he chose to threaten the cycling community. How would anyone react if someone publicly threatened to cause significant harm to your family or friends?

Imagine the uproar if I wrote in saying how much I hated horses on the local mtn bike trails and next time I came up on a horse, I was gonna intentionally try to startle the horse and make the rider fall off?

JQPUBLIC 5 years, 11 months ago

I too am getting tired of hearing that the auto drivers should be more courteous... when you're doing the speed limit around a blind curve and find a bike in the middle of your path doing 3 mph, it is alarming and dangerous. Instead of the cyclists having the attitude that it's their road too, they should consider their own safety as well as the auto driver's; it's a lot harder to control that vehicle in this situation than it is for the cyclist to stay on the shoulder in these curves. There are some roads cyclists need to stay off of because they are a danger to everyone (including themselves) and it's not bad drivers, it's the roads and the situations the drivers are put into. You want to ride your bicycle everywhere... good for you, now use a little common sense. ALSO, there are too many cyclists that like to pass a line of cars on the right when some of us are actually turning right, YOU are putting your own life in jeopardy, not the driver, you don't own the road either.

SangriaMama 5 years, 11 months ago

In my book bike lanes would cost less than the loss of life that is threatened by so many different users trying to share the roads that are too narrow in the first place.

Why must we wait for the next fatal accident when we can already see what the problem is?

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Jesus H. Christ ---- Just 10 years. Why don't you build that mountain a little higher! How come your molehill seems to be so grandiose?

A "nicer" letter?

Jack - Next time you write a letter, sign it

"S.W.A.K." (Sealed with a Kiss). Maybe even put a little flower on it for good measure. Then it can be referred to as a nicer letter.

nikobesti 5 years, 11 months ago

The majority of road and mountain bikers are great folks who obey the law. However, unfortunately, there is a growing sense of entitlement and radicalism that hurts your cause. A friend of mine was on a BLM-lead tour of Emerald Mountain last Friday, which the agency just acquired in a land exchange with the State Land Board. A certain representative of a mountain biking association was there and acted like a complete jerk. The BLM split the mountain into two management zones, one where mountain biking would be allowed and one where only non-mechanized travel would be allowed. A few bikers were quick to point out that the non-mechanized zone is a bit bigger than the mountain biking zone. You wouldn't believe what some members of this interest have resorted to. The initial crying and complaining resorted to threats. This individual threatened to call the Secretary of the Interior to reverse the decision (I laughed at that one), but also said to the BLM: "I will come with 100 of my friends and we will ride there anyway. You just try to stop us."

Mountain bikers, this did a huge disservice to your interest, which had been working well with BLM on this project. How about the BLM just give it back to the state, who didn't allow any recreation on the mountain? There are some folks in Steamboat who wanted a quiet, slow recreation experience without bikes on some portion of the mountain. But some selfish "Me! Me! Me!" @ssholes can't respect that. "By God, we're entitled to ride anywhere we want!" They stick their noses up in the air at the off-road vehicle/motorized community, yet they sound worse than them! The rest of the mb community need to step up and tell these jerks to go home.

madmoores 5 years, 11 months ago

nikobesti, Your right, it embarasses us all when bikers have the "holier than thou" attitude and it crosses both turfs, mountain and road. Some bikers are WAYYYYYYY to serious about their particular genre and take everything personally when it comes to where and what they can ride on. Some of us do ride for pleasure, exercise and to be in the great outdoors and we too, like the non-motorized users, enjoy an uneventful ride, one with nature if you will. While upsetting to some, the BLM issue on Emerald is not going to get some knuckeheaded, road-hog biker killed because they are "entitled", it will only land them with a big fine or in jail, perhaps where they and that sort of attitude belong. I will offer my apologies from those of us who respect the land, the rules and our fellow mountain users, we do exist believe it or not.

Hadleyburg_Press 5 years, 11 months ago

So much vitriol. Is this merely an indicator of what is to come as the population density increases and everyone pushes their special interest?

How about this:

Cyclists have a rght to use the road Cyclists must adhere to the law Motorists must adhere to the law All people who use the road should be cautious and alert All people who use the road should be courteous No one is special Everyone is special

Now go off an play nicely in the asphalt friction zone.

The world is so damn full of selfish idiots

nikobesti 5 years, 11 months ago

madmoores: you just proved my point that the majority of bikers are good folks who respect others and the land. I guess that's what bothers me even more about the few bad apples, they tarnish your good name.

acbike 5 years, 11 months ago

I second Hadleyburg!

Amy Harris 5 years, 11 months ago

Great comments by Hadley. Wider shoulders on our roadways would help everyone-not just cyclists. Jack, even you contribute to problems on "your highway" by towing a wide, heavy trailer in a narrow lane at speeds less than the drivers around you care to go. Your right to use the road, however, is no greater or lesser than anyone else's, so a great solution is to make the road safer for everyone. Let's add some manuevering room for cyclists, wide profile vehicles, trailers and those who need to pull over and get out of the way for whatever reason. Most of our roads are dangerous for everyone, whether in a car or on a bike.

bluntman 5 years, 11 months ago

how ironic (or perhaps even deliberate) that the sp&t chooses to air Jack's venomous rant the day that Ride the Rockies rolls into town. what has been lost in all of this is the fact that there were several thousand cyclists, their families, support crews, and manufacturers represetatives contributing to the coffers of local business people and the local tax base as well. would the editors give equal air time to a grand dragon of the kkk to spew vitriolic hate the day that The Brotherhood of Skiers arrive? hmmm... gives one pause to think for just a second, doesn't it?

so much for the illusion of the "friendly smiling locals" and "friendly small town atmosphere" that the Chamber Resort Association uses to sell the magic and charm of this area to potential visitors. it seems that it has all but vanished, and when the tourists that our economy so precariously depend upon don't return, we can personally thank people like Jack and Ann for doing their part.

c'est la vie

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Blunt:

"Grand Dragon of the KKK"...You've got to be kidding me! Dude, grab a beer, sit down and relax.

paddlefisher 5 years, 11 months ago

O K..Heres the deal..I remember when Ride The Rockie started..so going to work on Walton Village Drive..encounted several roadies riding abreast..so i POLITELY honked my horn..and guess what..I got showed that I was number one in there hearts you get my drift..O K didn't worry to much about it untill afew years later...approaching Bond..in a truck I slowed down cause I knew roadies were on the road..came around a corner and BAMB ..holy S..t thier are at least five abreast taking up my lane(but its my fault if I hit them)..well I burned my brakes and THANK ALL MIGHTY GOD their was no gruesome outcome..I guess what I'm saying is you above all rules roadies would police yourselves instead of blaming people who are tring to get from point A to point B..then we wouldn't have this problem..you blow stop signs ride in the turning lane..and push the limit cause you know drivers will be at fault if they hit you..I'm not saying that drivers are perfect but when you got roadies who think thier bike helmets make them inviciable then we have a problem..all of us need to show resepct for each other then we won't have this going on..right now I will go out of my way to not harm you but you all keep pushin the limit..and some people will not have that attitude..tragicly someone will get hurt..this is in no way a threat to you..its just a fact

cartiak 5 years, 11 months ago

Last I heard Jack, is that a slow moving vehicle (farm machinery, plow, bicycle) approached on a double yellow requires some patience. Just remember, your horses will be of no value if you are sitting in a jail cell...

JQPUBLIC 5 years, 11 months ago

dundalk... I love the way you answered blunt before he/she even posted.... you and I see eye to eye on many things, now I know why, you're psychic.

Scott....What is going on with these comment boards anyway?

Vince arroyo 5 years, 11 months ago

Thank you Madmoores nikobesti . I was at the BLM tour and witnessed those actions/words from the said person. It is those few bad apples in all venues of recreation that spoils it for the rest of us.

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 11 months ago

www.steamboatpilot.com/news/2007/jun/04/bike_tours_coming_town/

Everyone saw the picture, correct? Doesn't exactly look single file.

dundalk 5 years, 11 months ago

Way to go Morty! Visual evidence is always best when attempting to reason with 2 wheeled rodents.

JQ...Aside from being Irish as well as caustic, indeed I must be a seer to the future when it comes to Blunt's rants and rambles.

corduroy 5 years, 11 months ago

sbvor: yes, the Pilot doesn't even host their site or any sites they design locally. Way to keep the money here! or not..

steamvent 5 years, 11 months ago

I too was on the BLM tour of Emerald Mountain and the obnoxious mountain biker set the offroad cycling community back years by his outrageous behavior. Literally five hours of ranting and whining. You local mountain bikers know who this guy is so I don't have to give you his name, but you had better put a cork in him or you will lose ground, not gain it. He is a self righteous jerk who does a disservice to all of you. It was pathetic to watch his continuous negative attitude towards the very people who are working their butts off to provide a recreation plan and trails for the whole public that will cap off an incredible project that has been in the works for over 15 years. It was ugly to see.

Brian Watterson 5 years, 11 months ago

Bicyclists' Code of Conduct (download from internet) 1) Never ride against traffic. 2) Ride as near to the right as practicable. 3) Stop at stop signs and red lights. 4) Honor others' right of way. 5) Use hand signals. 6) With traffic, ride single file. 7) Be predictable; don't weave. 8) Follow lane markings. 9) Don't needlessly block the road*. 10) Use lights at night.

*--Note that the two most common offenses of bicyclists are running stop signs, and groups of cyclists blocking the road.

Vince arroyo 5 years, 11 months ago

thanks Bwatterson

Matthew Stoddard 5 years, 11 months ago

Tuesday, I was on Oak St. approaching the 7th St. 4 way stop. A father and his young-teen son behind blew right thru the stop sign, not waiting for the other person who had the right of way. Why don't bicyclists need licenses again?

madmoores 5 years, 11 months ago

Hmmm, sounds just like the other day keilbasa. While we do not have near the situation you all do, there are some pretty close moments. Ride the rockies came through the other day and all I wanted to do was sit at home with a blanket over my head and not even get in the vehicle knowing what was in store. A couple encounters if you will:

I was going south on Ranney st.(in Craig) approaching the stoplight at 4th street. As I had the green I continued my progress only to have to slam the brakes to avoid implanting the front of my Dodge into some "Ride the Rockies" fool who blew the red light going east on 4th. They simply smiled and waved like they had a right to do it and I was the a$$hole, who had the right of way. Then there was the pack of them "touring" Craig that were traveling towards Loudy-Simpson park(south on 4th again)that were riding 5-6 abreast clear up to the center line(blocking the lane). They would not move into single file and had at least ten cars stacked up behind them, me in the lead. Some impatient dumb@$$ decided he could no longer wait and blew around five or more cars PLUS the pack of bikers, on a double yellow no less, and went about his way. An accident waiting to happen that could have easily been avoided.

I agree, why not issue licenses and make cyclists, BOTH breeds, take tests and pass them before being allowed on the roads/mountains. Maybe us mountain types can take a test on how to treat and preserve the forests and trails(and BLM land)accordingly. Maybe if the road bikers would realize that it is them that is vunerable while on the road and follow the law these type of conversations, or letters to the editor, would not need to take place. Maybe if the mountain bikers would not tread where they are not supposed to, pick up your trash and be courteous when approaching hikers and horses, we would not be looked at like fools and we certainly would have a whole lot more land to ride on. It all boils down to respecting each other and what we do in our lives, as diverse as our lives can be. Learn respect, live respect, and return respect will come out of it. Respect may not come from everybody but at least if you practice it, you will have the satisfaction that you are doing the right thing(or left thing, depending on who you are;)

madmoores 5 years, 11 months ago

Sorry..... kielbasa. I before E except after.........K?????

greyrider 5 years, 11 months ago

I've noticed that after three days of listening to cyclists rant about there "rights", they have (conveniently) failed to mention paragraph 6 (a) (i) of Title 42-4-1412 of the Colorado Statutes; "Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file; except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the following circumstances: (i) When riding two abreast will NOT impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic." However I feel they should be forgiven for the oversight due to the fact that law enforcement ignore the statute as well. Although I am not an attorney, I would interpret that to mean that when you are riding on a two lane roadway with traffic behind you that is not able to safely pass, it is your legal obligation to move over so that the rest of us can safely pass. As for those of you that want to paint Jack as a sadistic redneck bent on flattening every titanium riding spandex clad nature lover on the road due to his "veiled threat", maybe his statement should be presented in a slightly different light. Firstly a 3000 pound vehicle pulling a 2500 + pound trailer loaded 4000 pounds of anything, be it horses, nerf balls, or even bicycles, cannot stop or swerve quickly enough to miss you when you cut in front of us. (Not if, WHEN.) I'm sure that each of you reading this sincerely feels that you are not the ones doing this, but several of you are, and seem to feel very self-righteous while doing it. Secondly, if we sound our horn as we approach you from behind it is not because we want to check out the pedicure on your middle finger. It is because we see what could be a dangerous situation coming and we are trying to warn you. You are the one who will become road-kill, we have a ton of metal wrapped around us. Don't forget to say a cheery "Thank You!" as we go by. Thirdly, if while motoring down the road I am cut off by one of you more "environmentally aware" individuals, I basically have three choices, 1. swerve left and have a head on collision with whomever is lucky enough to sacrifice themselves along with me and mine to preserve your right to ride on dangerous roads. 2. Swerve right and selflessly sacrifice myself and my family by going off a 100 embankment, hitting a rock wall, or maybe taking our chances in a plain old everyday rollover. (Sorry, no SUV here.) 3. Running over your holier-than-tho spandex. Given the choices I am presented with, rest assured I will pick door number three. As a plain old everyday dirt farmer with a eighth grade education once explained to me, "Son, if you are going to be stupid, you better be tough." Then again the statement "He was within his rights" would look very fitting on the grave marker of a martyr. Wise up, no matter who is right, wrong, or in jail, odds are you will be dead and your family will suffer from the loss. Even if you don't care about anyone else, you might give them a thought.

corduroy 5 years, 11 months ago

its really too bad that there are some bikers out there not educated on bike etiquette. They make all bikers look bad. Personally, I learned FROM a bike cop in Vermont how to deal with any traffic situations. Single File, hand signals, USE the left turn lane if you are turning, pretty much just like driving a car, imagine that! I'm sorry that so many bikers are ignorant about this, but its not EVERY biker, so its unfair to make a statement like "All bikers cause problems for cars on the roads" What really irks me is the people walking on the bike path who won't move out of the way for a biker to pass. I don't have a bell but I'll say "on your left" or "beep beep" Sometimes people look at me like I'm the inconsiderate one. It's called the BIKE path isn't it? Not the, wander aimlessly 5 across path.

Just think of what a nice place this would be if people stopped being so selfish and started being considerate, respectful, and just plain nice to everyone. It's good karma!

mtroach 5 years, 11 months ago

Having missed the emerald meeting I am wondering what transpired to make the forementioned cyclist take the stand that you describe. I have started a thread on the forums page and would ask those that attended the meeting and hike to give their slant on the meeting, the property they saw, and tell the public what is happening with the BLM and this new property.

As to this letter, it just shows that one bad apple can have a bigger impact than the actions of many good people.

thalgard 5 years, 11 months ago

HEY JACK, SLOW DOWN OF I'LL EAT YOUR HORSE WITH SOME NICE SPROUTS AND WASH IT DOWN WITH AN ENERGY DRINK...YOU ARE A REDNECK JERK!

paddlefisher 5 years, 11 months ago

I witnessed an accident between a cyclist and a motorvechile..about the time KFC and Taco Bell became one..I was in the parking lot of Taco Bell early A.M. but light..the light turned green for vechile on cenrtal Park drive..and bam the cyclist blew the Red light launching himself(after hitting the car) approx. 100 ft and at least 4 ft off the ground..he was pretty messed up but cohereant enough to say..I was going to fast couldn't stop..gave the motorist my name and number but never heard from him..I did howeve4 read the he was issused at ticket for failure to yeild and some other charges..ironic isn't it..who was really wrong here..it does all boil down to respect for each other but unfortunately there are a lot of the ME generation out there..lets all be careful and respectful of each other

jlkar 5 years, 11 months ago

Seriously Steamboat. Get over yourselves. Jack really isn't going to kill you.- rancher's humor. And bikers, just stay freaking single file. ALL THE DAMN TIME. YES, EVEN WHEN YOU THINK NO ONE IS COMING. or get rear view mirror and STOP ignoring cars. Speed limit is 65- do it or get out of the way. no brainer.

trump_suit 5 years, 11 months ago

What is great about this community conversation is the awareness that has come about this week. As I drive 129 every day, I have noticed a much larger number of drivers pulling over to let the faster cars go bye. This kind of courtesy lowers everyones heartrate and stress level.

If farmers and ranchers, construction vehicles, trailers and pickups can all share the road, why is it that the bicyclists need the whole thing?

Let's return to the roots that brought success and happiness to this valley, and try a little common courtesy for all. There is room for everyone on 129 and all of our roads with just a little understanding..

madmoores 5 years, 11 months ago

Thalgard, you now have stooped to his level with your comment. I believe that Jack was just trying to vent something that frustrated him but went about it the wrong way and did not use much tact in his statement. I'm sure he will not be out hunting you down just to run you over however he seems frustrated about something that affects alot of other people besides him. You, judging from your comment, appear to be one of those he seems frustrated about, possibly a road hog yourself?? Just a speculation of course but who in their right(or left)mind would eat a horse, and with sprouts, yuck. Stooping down to insults and threats is not how we attempt to get along and begin to respect each other out on the road. Jack might slow down and watch out for you, why don't you have some respect and a little common sense to move out of the way of him and his several thousand pounds of vehicle and horses? Again, COMMON SENSE!! I mean c'mon, do any of you road bikers actually look behind you during any point on your rides? I can assure you that if looked back and saw a truck/trailer/horses/tractor/ford escort/motorcycle/faster moving cyclists/etc... that I would not be hanging out near the stripe but moving my sore @$$ over as far as possible to avoid being hit. You never know the condition the driver is in nor the ability of them to drive properly. Why risk your @$$ because you THINK you are entitled to take up as much road as you want. .

Crap, now I'm venting.

Anyway, this thread seemed to be leaning towards some common ground between bikers and drivers until that comment took it right back to the original letter to the editor.

JQPUBLIC 5 years, 11 months ago

madmoores.... sensible venting....Amen

By the way, I could swear I read somewhere that the governor signed a bill allowing bikers to ride two abreast (if they didn't impede traffic), I better see if I can find out where I read this. Anyone else know if this is true or not?

Brian Watterson 5 years, 11 months ago

There was a bicycle bill that died in 2002, but did not have any reference to riding two abreast.

Colorado law is now best accessed through a list of statutes, with a long list of statutes returned from the word "bicycle". Most specific bike law is in Title 42, sections 1-4 of which house the state Traffic Code.

The Colorado statutes concerning bicycles were revised in House Bill No. 1246, passed in 1988. This includes some of the following language:

When operated on a roadway, a bicycle is a vehicle. A bicycle rider must obey the same rules as a car - he must signal turns, obey all traffic signs and even stop for emergency vehicles.

A bicycle must travel in the same direction as all other traffic.

(a) A bicyclist is supposed to ride on the right:

i. If there is a paved shoulder "suitable" for bicycle riding, then a cyclist must use it.

ii. Otherwise, the cyclist must ride in the "right-hand lane." He must ride as far to the right as "practicable" in that lane if he is being overtaken by another vehicle.

(b) A cyclist is not required to ride on the shoulder, in the right-hand lane, or to the right side of a lane if any of the following are true:

i. If the cyclists is "overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle."

ii. If the cyclist is preparing to make a left turn.

iii. If it is "reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions, including but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, pedestrians, animals, or surface hazards."

The Federal model traffic code includes two more exceptions to the ride-to-the-right rules (3(a), above). Bicycles are not required to ride to the right if they are traveling the same speed as other traffic or if the lane is not wide enough to include the bicycle, another vehicle, and a safe distance between them. These exclusions are not provided in the Colorado law.

Based upon personal observations and listening to the comments of others, the problem more often than not lies with the bicyclists. Just obey the laws, and exercise some common courtesy (& sense), and we'll all be better off.

The roads out here were not originally intended for recreational use. While bicyclists have the right to utilize them (which I support), they do not have a priority over motorized vehicles using them.

mtroach 5 years, 11 months ago

FYI: http://bicyclecolo.org/page.cfm?PageID=45

Part 6 addresses riding more than single file, "reasonable traffic" is up to you to define. Is a single car traffic? Is an irate motorist reasonable?

fish 5 years, 11 months ago

And thalgard speaks from personal experience!

thalgard 5 years, 11 months ago

Madmoores...actually you are right, a light chanterelle red wine sauce would be far better on Mr. Horner's locally raised free range horse...just kidding...the fact that this redneck goat roper could make open threats towards bicylists just sickens me...what is wrong with people like him? Is a human life worth getting to town just a few minutes faster? Slow down, share the road, pay attention...and Mr. Horner..it is not OK to have sex with farm animals!

ventrygirl 5 years, 11 months ago

Okay folks, it's been 10 days since the letter was printed. Don't you think we've beaten this horseman enough? Move on people.

paddlefisher 5 years, 11 months ago

you got you're helmet on to tight bra..you cann't be serious..ask yourself this is human life worth a few feet of space..show respect and you shall recieve respect..pretty simple..it does work both ways share the road

jack legrice 5 years, 11 months ago

Does anyone in this post remember this is ranch country ?Horse, hay, and a pleasant howdy. So much for the quality of life we used to enjoy here.

sensibility 5 years, 11 months ago

Completely my misunderstanding, Mr. Horner was aware of the fact that the letter was going to have his name attached; I was just emphasizing with the fact that people calling his place of employment is childish and unproductive.

sixshooter 5 years, 11 months ago

Go Jack! It would appear the only way to get a response from our "special" and very sensitive bikers is to say it "like it is". If you would have been sensitive to them and the problem which obviously has nothing to do with them, absolutely nothing would have been said. The way it looks to me is the truth hurts. In reading the comments I find it interesting that there are very few "special" cyclists who feel they contribute to this problem. We are to follow them up the pass or around the hill till there is a passing zone. Get real bikers, this isn't going to happen. Jack, I would take it as a compliment being called a "redneck" in what is comically called the Cowboy Ski Town USA. Look at it this way- would you rather be called sensitive, or, heaven forbid, a cyclist? As for the guy who apparently has a thing for sex with horses. Well if Jack is a true redneck and his horse a true redneck, ranch grown cow pony, he has way too much class to even acknowledge the perverted spandex monkey and his perverted mentality.

sensibility 5 years, 11 months ago

Mr. Horner did not threaten the live of any biker. Mr. Horner simple stated that if while attempting to pass a group of road bikers, who it seems everyone has agreed have the inability to view approaching traffic, while pulling a trailer and was suddenly in a head on situation with another vehicle, he would avoid the head on accident.
As a person who not only rides bikes but horses as well, I am saddened and sickened to state the fact I ride bikes having read the onslaught of harassing comments from bikers. Most of you have cars/trucks, and I'm sure most of you realize that all over the valley today, road bikers are more than two abreast causing motorist issues. Do you not realize that your actions are not only jeopardizing your own lives but that of the motorist as well? Eat your sprouts, drink your energy drink but realize that Mr. Horner has as much of a right to use that road as you, and by riding recklessly you are endangering his life as well. Biking creates no pollution...neither does horse back riding. Biking is a stress relieving hobby...so are equine activities. People are now calling Mr. Horner's place of employment? You have got to be kidding me, not only are you exacerbating the situation but ruining anything good that you could have added to better the situation. If anything the Steamboat Pilot should be sued. Mr. Horner is nothing more than a valuable citizen of the community voicing his opinion, as is everyone's right. However at this point in time all you bashers out there are real tough behind your anonymous usernames. Madmoores, thank you for using some sort of an intellectual basis for your comments. Something needs to be done to protect the bikers AND the motorists, Mr. Horner just happened to be the one to state the fact, and now you bas* are crucifying him for it. Oh yeah, and not to stoop to your level, but thalgard you are a f** idiot, anytime you want to talk on a more personal level, let me know.

JQPUBLIC 5 years, 11 months ago

sensibility.... I was with you until the comment "If anything the Steamboat Pilot should be sued", may I ask for what? Mr. Horner wrote a letter to the editor expecting it to be printed, it was, so what is the paper liable for?

runnerbikerdriver44 5 years, 11 months ago

I love Jack Horner for finally standing up and voicing an opinion many drivers have not had the courage to do. The world does not revolve around cyclists, as it does not revolve around driver. Not sure if anyone else has noticed these signs around town, but they have a pretty little picture on them, and say, "Share the Road." Learn to share! Mr. Horner has obviously moved out of the way for cyclists on several occasions, so why are the cyclists so unwilling to help him out? I feel sometimes people forget we all need to work together on this one. As a cyclist, I know the roads suck and are not made to accommodate all on the road, and know there is not much of a shoulder on any road in our town. This, however, is no excuse for cyclists to ride two abreast and then glare at someone when they try to pass you. Maybe Mr. Horner's words seemed harsh, but enough is enough! You can't expect drivers to put themselves at risk because you don't want to share the road, just as drivers would not expect you to hop off a bike every time a car approaches.

On another note, I find it hilarious how heated this entire discussion has gotten. Do we really live in a place where name-calling exists beyond middle school? I hate to have to point this fact out, but there is a very clear reason as to why cyclists have gotten so upset about the letter Mr. Horner publish-you got called on your s***! Now what is happening is you are getting defensive because you won't own up to the fact you could be in the wrong! Stop projecting your anger by calling him a "redneck," or by harassing him at work. Step back, process why you are getting angry, and change your ways! Realize your anger has a lot less to do with what Mr. Horner said, and has to do more with the fact he called you on something. You are being defensive and are not willing to step up to the plate and at least shoulder some of the responsibility!

CR129 5 years, 11 months ago

Well, it looks like a young woman was hit today on CR129. Many of us just knew it was a matter of time before something like this happened. It just makes me sick that such a young life was affected (I didn't hear any word on her condition). My heart goes out to her family. I hope that this brings this issue to a head and some resolutions are found. CR129 is a dangerous enough place for us to drive any more with all the cars and trucks. It is no place for a bike. It's easy to see with the beauty of the Elk River why you would want to bike up this road. Maybe a bike path along this and other roads in the county would be far less expensive than someone's life. I have no idea how serious the accident was, I'm just praying she was not killed. Please, for everyone's sake it is time to stop stating what is wrong with the situation and start finding solutions.
Growing up CR129 was a dirt road with little traffic. Now it has an amazing amount of traffic non stop all year. I would be interested in seeing numbers on how much traffic is on this road compared to what it was designed for.

SangriaMama 5 years, 10 months ago

The girl hit was one of our brightest cycling stars. Sounds like a pretty serious accident as she is now in Denver for treatment.

Let's move beyond name calling and work together on making it safer out there for everyone. We didn't need to wait for this to happen - the writing has been on the wall for a while. Now we can think seriously about the cost of these dangerous roads to a young person in our community.

madmoores 5 years, 10 months ago

How about banning bicycles on 129 altogether? This is obviously a very dangerous road and a cyclist that has quite a bit of experience riding was almost killed. Is the "scenery" and the "beauty" really worth it? There are plenty of other roads to ride on than those with no shoulders, such as Hwy. 40. Even though it is busy, there is a 6' shoulder to keep yourself out of harms way. It was only a matter of time when something like this would happen on that road so it is time to remove bikes altogether. As for the girl and her mom being stupid, I beg to differ. We allow 16 YEAR OLDS to get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and make decisions that affect us all, this was no different and the blame lies with nobody on this one. I would have chosen a different road to ride on but to each his own. I would implore the police to not cite the driver as it sounds like he was minding his own business when this biker made an error in judgement and swerved into traffic. Shut it down before someone gets killed...

dundalk 5 years, 10 months ago

Sangria sez: "Let's move beyond name calling and work together on making it safer out there for everyone. We didn't need to wait for this to happen". Does this statement mean that people will quit calling Jack Horner's place of employment and making death threats?

Jack Horner: Cyclists beware

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