Under the gun

Forum draws criticism, praise of sheriff's GRAMNET decision

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Garrett Wiggins listens to public comments during a forum hosted by the Routt County Commissioners to discuss Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall's decision to end the county's funding for the GRAMNET drug task force.

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Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall listens to public comments during a forum hosted by the Routt County Commissioners to discuss Wall's decision to end the county's funding for the GRAMNET drug task force.

— Routt County Sheriff Gary Wall's decision to cut county funding for a regional drug task force was both applauded and criticized Tuesday during a public meeting hosted by county commissioners.

Wall decided last week to cut his department's annual funding to the Greater Routt and Moffat Narcotics Enforcement Team. The Sheriff's Office previously has provided about $115,000 a year to the task force, which included the salary and benefits of a deputy assigned to GRAMNET.

When announcing the decision, Wall questioned the effectiveness of GRAMNET and the tactics used by task force officers. He alleged they have violated the civil liberties of suspects.

During Tuesday's meeting, Assistant District Attorney Kerry St. James said Wall's claims are unfounded.

"I just don't see our courts finding or confirming Sheriff Wall's anecdotal experiences," he said.

St. James also said Wall was "naÃive" to think he would have better success enforcing drug laws with a uniformed deputy than an undercover GRAMNET officer, and he criticized Wall's suggestion to spend money on creating additional drug awareness programs in schools to build trust with parents and students.

Wall defended his decision to cut GRAMNET funding, saying he was fulfilling promises he made during his campaign for sheriff.

"It's very important to me to do what I said I was going to do," he said. "For me to support GRAMNET with what I know would be a slap in the face to those who elected me."

GRAMNET task force commander Garrett Wiggins, who ran against Wall in the November sheriff's election, asked Wall to back up his "frivolous accusations" that GRAMNET officers had violated civil liberties.

Wall said he would not divulge that information because he had sworn confidentiality to his sources. However, later in the meeting, Wall read what he said was a transcript of two GRAMNET officers intimidating someone into becoming an informant.

Wiggins said Wall was "taking bits and pieces" of the conversation and "not presenting the whole story."

Commissioner Doug Mon-ger stopped the exchange, saying it was inappropriate.

Wall also said the Sheriff's Office would continue to enforce drug laws and investigations using its own officers. Wall suggested the funds that would have gone to GRAMNET be used to strengthen educational programs in the county's schools and create a school resource officer position.

"Right now, people are afraid to come to the police with information (about drugs) because they think their kid is going to get charged or turned into a snitch," Wall said. "In time, I think we can develop a trust with parents and children so they feel comfortable coming to us to share information."

Oak Creek resident Richard Krause praised Wall's efforts to protect his rights.

"I'm an American," he said. "We voted for Gary Wall as a republic, and we should back him up and support what he's doing to protect our civil liberties and constitutional rights. We're forgetting what our constitution meant to us 200 years ago."

Commissioner Nancy Stahoviak said the intent of Tuesday's forum was to give residents the chance to discuss the GRAMNET decision with the sheriff.

"I am sorry there are people in this room who feel like we brought Sheriff Wall in to be put on trial," she said. "We feel an important, critical decision has been made by the sheriff and that the community should know what's going on."

Stahoviak suggested anyone with questions or comments about the GRAMNET decision call Wall at the Routt County Sheriff's Office.

- To reach Alexis DeLaCruz, call 871-4234 or e-mail adelacruz@steamboatpilot.com

Comments

PokesFan 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm troubled that Wall is more concerned with protecting civil rights than enforcing law and protecting citizens. Mr. Wall might yet prove himself a good officer, but thus far his actions have illustrated poor leadership qualities and organizational skills. This perception will not likely change.

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Queenie 7 years, 5 months ago

The man is arrogant, ignorant and self-serving.

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katrinkakelly 7 years, 5 months ago

Mean Mean people. So you try to back Wall into a corner and then critize him for fighting back? Let the Sheriff do his job and stop your backwoods bantering.

Where is the huge drug problem? Davinci, give us the facts since you know all about drugs in this county and Gary Wall's mantra?!

ROTT not Gramnet would be the name of a Rout & Moffatt drug force, literally!

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bear 7 years, 5 months ago

Mr. Wall's display at the end of the meeting was awful. He was redfaced and shouting at the top of his lungs at Mr. Wiggins. Is this the reaction the public will get if they try to talk to him? One person said that they have tried to call and talk to him on the phone and that he will not return phone calls. Mr. Wall what's up ? You ran on the promise that you would be more accessable to the public. This dosen't sound like you are keeping your word. He wants to create a school resource position. Don't we already have a officer that does that? There used to be. Isn't that what the DARE officers do? I was not impressed with Mr. Wall's whole attitude yesterday. I went there with an open mind to listen to what he had to say and left with doubts about what he can do. My hat's off to Mr. Wiggins who calmly took Mr. Wall's shouting tyrade. Let us hope that Mr. Wall's attitude changes because at the moment he's on his on agenda and the people of Routt County are not included.

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JQPUBLIC 7 years, 5 months ago

Yep..."Wall defended his decision to cut GRAMNET funding, saying he was fulfilling promises he made during his campaign for sheriff". Some OC residents must be dancin' in the streets since Wall had some very vocal supporters that were known drug users and sellers (arrests & local knowledge) and consistant DUI barfly's. Are we supposed to think his "drug investigations" will include them, yeah right, deal on!! These are some of the same people whining to Wall about their civil liberties being violated, they have another drink and snort and their stories tend to get better. One thing I've learned (and witnessed) about drunks and druggies, they remember a whole different story than the events that actually took place and the more they tell it, the more they convince themselves that they were wronged. OC's elected officials chose to quit supporting GRAMNET when they done away with their working PD, Gramnet should set up shop in OC that would keep them busy. You go Wall, take care of your campaign promises, the dems that voted for you (that weren't promised anything) will soon wake up to the fact that the county is getting exactly what you promised your OC buddies...YOU'D DO NOTHING

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

bear- there is a resource office at the high school already- officer Funston is there all the time. The kids have a good reltionship with her, and she has done a lot to create and develop a relationship between the students, parents, and law enforcement in the community.

Katrinka- no matter how much someone is "backed into a corner", they should not lash out and shout t people in a public forum so much that the commissioners had to end it. Wall obviously lost his cool and couldn't handle the heat.

if you can't stand the heat- get out of the kitchen.

R E C A L L W A L L (it does have a nice ring doesn't it davinci?)

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uporpeopleu 7 years, 5 months ago

u really don't get that education IS the key to curbing drug use and abuse? wall is on the right track. get off u're high horse and let the man have a chance to fix the messes of his predecessors. u'll see that there is a better way than the ROTT way.

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katobe 7 years, 5 months ago

I agree that education is the key to young children in school. As said above, the schools have the DARE programs and officers in place to educate. However, the drug problems that include distribution, fabrication and use must be addressed first and foremost. If our counties continue to let these people run amuck our children will soon be the victims. I'm not willing to let that happen to my child. Gramnet and COMA and working diligently in trying to overcome the meth problem that exists in our communities. But how can they if they don't have the financial support. This is going to take an effort from all citizens, including neighborly watches, before we can even make a dent in this ever growing problem. Lastly, our judicial system needs to take a stance in prosecution for all drug users. Not let them back out on the streets. Any you people wonder why Gramnet is getting the backlash on this. They are trying to do their job in making our communities safer but our courts are turning the meth people back out on the streets. I agree, they need rehabilitation but there are no facilities that exist on a local level. Put yourself in my shoes, I lost a loved one to a meth user getting behind the wheel. Regardless of who is sheriff, DA, asst. DA, we must make a stance against the true enemy and that is METH! I don't have the answers but I am putting my heart and soul into trying to make a difference in our judicial system with the recall of Bonnie Roesink. One most start at the top....remember CRAP runs downhill... Thank you for allowing my comments.

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Hmmm 7 years, 5 months ago

Remember people....Gary Wall is the Sheriff. Officer Funston works for the Steamboat Springs Police Dept. These are 2 different agencies. The Sheriff's Office has nothing to do with the school resource officer position at the Steamboat High School. It's like the person who called the "Steamboat Sheriff Dept." about the accident in Mt. Harris Canyon....try working on keeping the different agencies separate, because they are not all the same and they don't operate the same way or have the same jurisdictions.

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id04sp 7 years, 5 months ago

When you find drug users and traffickers being turned back out on the street by our "system," you've got to stop and wonder why.

Go read this link.

http://www.cobar.org/tcl/tcl_articles.cfm?ArticleID=4329

It's all about a lawyer who ruined his life on drugs, got disbarred, and eventually was readmitted to the practice of law. Oh, and while using cocaine, etc., after his original disbarment, he was living in a trailer in Steamboat Springs.

Here's another one.

https://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/PDJ/Reinstatement/Driscoll,%20Reinstatement,No.02PDJ031,9-29-03.pdf

And another one. This guy took an ounce of cocaine in payment for legal services.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=1998sc%5Csc1109a&invol=1

This one committed a felony and got back in.

http://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/PDJ/Reinstatement/Mullison,ReadmissionOpinion,No.01PDJ089,12-16-02..PDF

Yet another guy got a 3-year suspension for accepting 1/2 pound of marijuana in payment for legal services. His name is Madrid, but I couldn't find a link to the case that didn't require logging-in to a website.

Apparently, it's okay to be a felon and be a laywer in Colorado. You can't be a cop in Colorado if you're a felon. How's that for a double standard?

The members of the Colorado Bar Association are responsible for a lot of the drug use and trafficking that goes on in this state, and it's not just because they defend the traffickers.

The problem is definitely with our judicial system, and the fact that the Colorado Supreme Court lets these guys come back and make a living in our courts should be a matter of deep shame. Instead, lawyers get a free pass most of the time from their peers and from the courts, and it takes something outrageous and obvious to the public to get them even suspended for a couple of years.

What would happen to a cop who got caught with 1/2 pound of pot?

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

Okay Hmmm that is true. But is Wall going to then put an officer in ALL schools in ROUTT county- Hayden, Soroco? He doesn't have the staff now to cover the shifts he needs. And now he is saying that he is gaining a staff position by not supporting GRAMNET. But that is not true becuase the county gave the SO the position just for GRAMNET. He is not gainingin an employee, he is losing the support and work of all the GRAMNET officers. Why does SSHS need a PD officer AND and SO officer? Wall is the COUNTY Sheriff- I know the republic of Steamboat elected him, but he needs to be responsive and protective of the whole county. He can't forget that.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

I agree id. There are so many problems with the justice system- especially around here. It is unfair that GRAMNET takes the fall for the failings of the DA's office, and the lax sentences handed down by our judges. It doesn't do anyone any good when all you need is a high priced lawer and you can get off in Routt County.

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BrainQuest 7 years, 5 months ago

The caller from the Mt. Harris accident had it right--he called the Steamboat Sherriff's office--Wall probably doesn't know Routt County's boundaries don't extend beyond Steamboat city limits!

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katobe 7 years, 5 months ago

Believe it or not their are local attorney's that agree with the recall of our DA and are circulating petitions which is all in compliance of the Secretary of State. They are Hardy-Moore (husband), Bill Schurman, Larry Feldman (6 others). There are now at least 15 sections circulating in Routt with more to come. If you agree with the recall please sign as this affects you as a citizen of Routt County. Please understand that I'm not using this site to promote but as I said before I truly am giving my heart and soul into this as meth is one of many problems that we are faced with and it starts with unprofessionalism within our justice system. (ie: Sweet Pea vegetable bandints) It is unfortunate that Gramnet and COMA will suffer from the loss of a paid official from Routt County SO. With any luck, we will move in the right direction for our communities including its children.

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katobe 7 years, 5 months ago

Here is the verbage from the petition:

General statement of grounds for recall: During her term an unprecedented number of employees have resigned citing philosophical and ethical differences with Ms. Roesink, not as insufficient salaries as she stated. The office has lacked a consistency in prosecution and has allowed for the plea-bargaining of many serious felony cases. Roesink has routinely micromanaged her employees while refusing to educate herself on the facts of cases. As District Attorney, she has lost the confidence of the public, law enforcement and others in the criminal justice system and has consistently violated the Colorado Victims Rights Act by not treating victims and their families with respect, fairness and dignity. She continues to use harassment, intimidation and abuse as a form of management with her employees. She has misdirected the priorities of her administration offices, including but not limited to frivolous expenditures on interior design. Her failure to professionally lead and manage the 14th Judicial District has led to many plea bargains and light sentences for some while grossly over prosecuting others. Such unprofessional and irresponsible management is grounds for removal from office.

This isn't by any means an in your face but for those that are interested.

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kingsride 7 years, 5 months ago

Why are you spamming this with your DA recall. You have this posted in other locations. If people are interested they can read it there.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

Does anyone know if Bustos took the POST test yesterday? The test is given the 3rd Wed of each month (see http://www.ago.state.co.us/post/ProvisionalInformation.pdf for confrimation). Isn't he supposed to be certifed in February? What about the firearms, driving, and arrest control skills? I know that the arrest control part specifically takes a lot of physical agility. Keep to your word Wall- where's Bustos' certification? Wall is short officers and he doesn't want to commit a position to GRAMNET, but he got rid of 3 certified officers, and now he won't get certified himself.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

I'll race for donuts or Wendy's!!! I even know shortcuts! No bar for me, though.

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katobe 7 years, 5 months ago

It's not spamming as it is part of the problem. Judicial system, law enforcement, Gramnet, COMA... There are people trying to make a difference besides myself. I said, if you have interest...if not read on. I find it interesting that you are always the devil's advocate on these postings.

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whyquestion 7 years, 5 months ago

is the new sheriffs emphasis on drug rehab a call for help in his life????? why is the argument between prevention or drug rehab?????? why can't routt county have both????? does mr white have an agenda to expand his empire in social work with wall?????is drug rehab the answer????? what does routt county do in the mean time ,let citizens die???? how long does it take for a drug user to seek rehab??? why not tax drug dealers????? how many new ambulance people will be needed also amb.vehicles?????does the county have the $$$$$ for this?????do the people in this county really care about children????past years it has been very hard to get help for drug abusing familys from the welfare dept. in s routt will this change?????? wall while your building trust how many citizens will die????

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cantstandit 7 years, 5 months ago

Bitter, Self agenda, waste of tax payer's money, worthless, sneaky, little white tellin, mis leading, non-producing, consuming, greedy, uncertifed, gas guzzlin, overbounds steppin, trash talking, game face wearin, sucker punchin, leaky undergroung walkway scammin, two faced, lazy, nickle and dime'n, ski pass acceptin, George W. Bush blamin, no parking spot havin, make your own rules as you go going, under worked, over paid, lack of any proof givin, my way or the highway demanding, thanks for nothing givin, over taxin, Rainbow hate'n, driveway snow plow blockin, worthless stinking

ROUTT COUNTY COMMISH STEAMBOAT CITY COUNCIL STEAMBOAT POLICE ROUTT COUNTY SHERIFF GRAMNET

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

FIRE THEM ALL NEXT FALL!!!!!!!!

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

Boo- right now, I like City Market's donuts. You just have to get there early for the best selection. A lot of property mgnmt places suck up donuts for guests.

Canton used to be a great donut shop back in the early 80's but it didn't last long. I think they were the 1st to occupy the new (at that time) building after the Dairy King was torn down. Blackbird Bakery also used to have a good variety.

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whyquestion 7 years, 5 months ago

goldilocks don't police officers have to take a phyco test also in order to serve????????south routt r k have you forgotten other citizens have civil rights too????like being safe in public places?????? How aboutt the guy that ran for govenor gorman pour soul he's no longer with us?????? drugs are dangerous???????

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uporpeopleu 7 years, 5 months ago

u're belittlement of wall makes me want to give him all the more chance to see what his style of law enforcement can do. most of u forumers don't like anyone or anything from what i can tell. if u negs hate it, it probably is good

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

question- the SO and SSPD both require psych tests but the PD one is much more involved. There have been instance where applicants have failed the PD test and passed the SO one. The PD also requires a lie detector test, but I am not sure about the SO on that one. The hiring department holds the discretion regarding these tests. I am sure that Wall did not subject himself or his undsheriff to these tests- as he requires of his employees. Maybe we should ask them if they toook the tests...

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kingsride 7 years, 5 months ago

Bottom line is this; Wall dissed the cops when he went to the city to whine about his cronies having their civil rights violated when they were caught driving under the influence. The overwhelming majority of local cops have absolutely no respect for him. Since he has taken office he has done nothing to turn that around and gain their respect. Now with the cutting of Gramnet he will become suspect by other law enforcement officials around the state. Its just the way it is.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

So, U- so far, his style is:

1- Ask for an exhorbitant amount of money for his undersheriff (whose identity he kept a secret til after he got elected, so you didn't know who you were voting in with him) who was not up to date in training.

2- Tried to move his office to a locale completely away from his staff.

3- Decided he doesn't need the POST training so he can't actually go out on calls himself, while getting rid of deputies who could go out on calls and shortsheeting his supply of deputies that can go out on calls.

4- Accuses other officers of violating civil rights (his biggest campaign issue) yet offers nothing to back it up to protect confidentiality...so nothing can actually come of those incidents.

Yeaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

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onethought 7 years, 5 months ago

WOW, this is exhausting reading!!!!! Just a mention for the taxpayers of the county, all law enforcement agencies hire uncerterified persons. They then pay them to go to an academy for 3 months (sometimes longer or shorter) depending on circumstances. So all agencies pay their uncertified employees while they train and then take the POST Test. Obviously alot of people that are hired are already certified but there are a bunch of them that are not and the taxpayers do pay their salaries while they go to academy's to get POST certified. Just so you know

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

king- why must you attack davinci, who has been very quiet throughout this particular forum. You speak on things that you do not know. I know for fact that davinci is one person, and the opinions posted on this forum are NOT reflective of the SSPD. And if you can read, there are many more people that have posted concerns for Wall and his policies and procedures.

There are a lot of people that do not live in the republic of steamboat that are concerned about bein protected and served by the COUNTY sheriff. Wall seems to think that his main priority is to serve Steamboat and the people that elected him. However, Steambot has the PD (and whatever your opinoins may be about them, this is how it is). Wall needs to address the concerns of ALL his constituents. There are a lot of unanswered questions about why he he has done things, how he is going to change things, and when he will complete the required testing. The concerns that we have are not underming and elected official- they are about holding Wall accountable for his actions.

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kingsride 7 years, 5 months ago

Boo; Many of your points are valid and i agree with some of them. The lack of respect comes from people who do and from those who do not work for him. Im just trying to say that it is difficult to be a leader when you do not command the respect of those you lead. You are right, they can go and some probably will. Some need to go, and others it will be a loss when they do. Im tired of hearing civil rights violation accusations that are unsubstantiated. The FBI investigates cops who violate citizens civil rights. There are indeed safeguards in place. I think we have more bar talk than civil rights violations here.

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kingsride 7 years, 5 months ago

Goldilocks; please re read, it was not I that attacked davinci thank you

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

Boo- Goldilocks is correct, as far as I know. Davinci is just one person and speaks only for that 1 person's thoughts.

Remember what this article states: Wall would not give any particulars to what civil rights are being violated due to confidentiality. Since those were from his days as an investigator for sale, that now conflicts with his duties as sheriff, to correct these possible violations.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

Davinci named themselves on that one only to pay respects to Amy Flint. I did the same, but I didn't put my wife's name. I forgot to. My wife never visits this site.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

boo- davinci may have named her husband there, but I know for a fact that the postings here are soley her opinions, and not those of her husband. And I was referring to the posts on this particular article when I said that they were quiet.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

Boo- sometimes, it's possible that couples talk amongst themselves. I'm not saying revealing that info is proper, let alone legal, but we all know it happens. I know Davinci personally, so I know it's just one person. As I used to tell Psycho Joe, one of the things I'm pretty good at is seeing the patterns and characteristics of writing/speaking styles. One of the things I've really trained myself on as an actor. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not due to my personal discussions with Davinci.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

davinci made a mistake, and has said as much. davinci is a very passionate person and speaks her mind. The opinions posted here are just the opinions. And they reflect what davinci believes, not what SSPD believes. And you and anyone else who reads this should distinguish between those. Just as youre opinions do not reflect your work, your spouse (if that pertains), or your family. I am an individual and I wouldn't want my views to be taken as the views of my family or my business.

But as far as Wall having to interact with the SSPD, he doesn't, at least not effectively. He has said that if the SSPD doesn't like his ways then he will have to just retrain them. Now to me that doesn't seem like a good way to get the respect an support of the other agencies that he has to work with. During his campaign he made NO effort to meet with, or even introduce himself to the jail employees, the SO deputies, or the SSPD. Does this sound like someone who respects those that he is workign with?

Now boo, does your best friend support Wall and what he has done since he has taken office?

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kingsride 7 years, 5 months ago

boo: me thinks the command structure already has as appears to be evident by the sounds of silence.

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uporpeopleu 7 years, 5 months ago

i know many sspd and those i've talked to like & respect wall. davinci and/or hubby are not in the majority.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

there is a big difference between "defense and examination" and saying that he will have to retrain them. He has been out of law enforcement for so many years and so many things have changed. It would seem that he would want to include the certfied and respected officers already on the forces in helping him his acheive his goals rather than insult them.

I understand Wall wants to protect the civil liberties of the people, which is fine. But I feel that he ignores protecting the liberties of law abiding citizens. Aren't I free to want to live in a community that does enforce DUI laws and does address drug issues? Wall hasn't made any efforts to explain how he plans to address the drug issues in Routt county, other than saying no to GRAMNET. I just want him to be accountable for his actions. And so far I have yet to see this accountability.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

U- I wholeheartedly disagree. For reasons of confidentiality, I will not go further than to say I know that many of the officers have issues with what Wall has done and said during the election and since taking office. If there are so many that like Wall why were the majority of SSPD officers publically supporting Wiggins throughout the entire election?

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

That may be true. As they say, give him enough rope and ...

I know that there is a special type of person that is marries a law enforcement official. Most of the husbands and wives of the SO and PD officers are very empassioned people and if you speak to most of them they are pretty vocal and opinionated on their own accord. it is hard living with the secrecy associated with "pillow talk" or lack there of, and dealing with the long and oft times extra hours associated with the job. I know davinci has made some rash and harsh comments, but I really think that there needs to be separation of what is said here from the families of the person posting the comments. Even those associated with the PD.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

lol boo- I think the donuts must come out around 6- when the store opens. :) What we really need is a Krispy Kreme shop- open 24 hours right?

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Slapper 7 years, 5 months ago

City Market has been late getting the donuts out. In the last six weeks or so at 6:30 no donuts. I go to the back and get what I want and they do not mind. Don't even think about taking a plain long john with maple frosting and nuts on top because they only make one! I claim that as one of my liberties.

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CoJustice 7 years, 5 months ago

TO Kielbasa: Regarding your post.

"Remember what this article states: Wall would not give any particulars to what civil rights are being violated due to confidentiality".

What a crock, ever heard of "PUBLIC RECORD". Police reports and court records are not confidential !!!

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

but isn't that hearsay? I mean davinci isn't an expert, so wouldn't opinion be excluded as hearsay? And isn't marital pillow talk held as confidential? If you were to use this line of questioning, wouldn't you have to prove that it was in fact the husband who wrote the postings and not the wife? and doesn't the husband have to identify himself rather than the wife including his name?

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Slapper 7 years, 5 months ago

When work starts a 6 in the spring and I can no longer get my plain maple long john with nuts on top there are withdrawal symptoms for sure. I take this a a serious threat and will be prepared.

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mkbar 7 years, 5 months ago

boo I'm curious about the mounting case law revealing public officials who express opinions anonymously. I joined the Electronic Frontier Foundation ( http://www.eff.org ) because they vigorously defend peoples constitutional right to anonymous speech among other things. Does this right not pertain to elected officials? It is my understanding that as long as the posting is not libelous or in some other way illegal it is protected speech? I'm not an attorney so I don't know all of the technicalities and exceptions. Just curious.

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id04sp 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey, Boo,

Your story about the judge is pretty good.

How'd you feel if you had to go up against an attorney who was on the judicial review committee charged with evaluating the judge sitting on your case? Want to guess how that one came out?

Your comment about the "entenched bureaucracy" was very good too. The RCSO was one of those for 12 years, and now people are complaining because Wall is changing things around. I honestly don't know how the RCSO is going to come out, but time will tell. It might get better. It could not be less effective than it was.

The "war on drugs" is not the reason for the high rate of incarceration in our society. Blame "the war on poverty" and the social programs which rewarded high rates of illegitimacy for all those years during the 60s and 70s, at least.

Oh, you can also blame government policies which led to overdevelopment, crowding and lack of opportunity to obtain work as a laborer for so many urban kids who had no other choice because of where they came from, parental neglect and actual trafficking in drugs by police officers and government officials in the big urban centers. LA, Detroit, Atlanta, etc.

We should drop the "war on drugs" for about five years and have a "war on public corruption" instead, and then go back and pick up with the aftermath of unconstrained drug trafficking for five years.

Dropping the war on drugs will be a social disaster, but it has to come. Common people who have aided, abetted and tolerated drug abuse are responsible for the chaos which has resulted, and so now common people are going to have to bear the financial burden, endure the violence, and live in fear until all the abusers are dead or rehabbed.

What will this mean? Stay off the roads as much as possible. Stay inside at night. Arm yourself against intruders. Watch your back in public places. Gas stations and supermarkets will have to hire armed guards to protect the customers coming and going, because anyone on foot with cash in their pocket will be a target. Also, anyone who legally purchases drugs will be a target for users who don't have money to buy drugs.

AIDS clinics will be overrun with addicts who shared needles. Millions of users will die on the streets from violence or overdoses. Hospitals will be overrun with abusers suffering from the effects of the drugs, or from the results of drug-related violence. Kids will starve on the street or become prostitutes, because they won't be able to hold real jobs while abusing drugs.

Oh, but won't legalization change all this? Uh . . . . NO! It will just make it possible for anyone who has the money to buy drugs to use drugs whenever they please. When they are unable to earn the money to buy the drugs, what will happen then? They'll "quit," right?

Yeah, right.

"How is it different from alcohol?" some will ask. It's not. It'll just be easier for users to get drugs. And that will be better . . . how?

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

I agree with you to a point- why make waves right?

Just for curiosities sake and being devil's advocate: As to the identity- there have been numberous posts idetifying davinci by name, particularly by fireside. Would this go to credit that the poster is in fact the wife? And would the posting times come into play- such as was the officer in question away... would the prosecutor have to prove that the wife made some, or all of the comments? and could they use the type of language used- as Kielbasa said- the postings are written by the same person each time?

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

watch out CM- there may be a run on maple frosted nutty donuts!

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

what i meant is that fireside has repeatedly called davinci by name.

About your statement: repeated and arguably willful misstatements about Wall's POST requirements are legally actionable.

What are the misstatements? Most everyone has stated that he has to be certifed within a year and that he has publically said that Bustos will be certified in Feb. and that he will get his own certification when he feels it is appropriate. Tax payers are concerned that they are both using their time to study for the test. If these statements are true, then how can they be legally useful?

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Slapper 7 years, 5 months ago

Boo, yes some common ground found without conflict. Wish there was a bit concerning Wall but for the most part only hate. The drug war has been a failure for 20 years plus. I respect anyone who takes the harder road on issues that continue to be funded but produce for the most part little or nothing.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 5 months ago

CoJustice-

Cripes! Gone for 1hr and almost 40 new posts! There isn't any public record because it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. That's why I think he's keeping it confidential. Maybe they tried to show their case and it got tossed out or never even formally presented a case.

I remember Wall having the Cattle Call in the paper few years back for whomever felt trampled upon and never saw anything come of it to date. At this point, I don't think it'll ever come out since the investigator is now Sheriff. Conflict of interest, to be sure.

Boo- Powdered w/jelly innards!!!

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CoJustice 7 years, 5 months ago

Kielbasa: Thank you for your responce.

I would now would like to take the heat off davinci, and have her pass the baton to me. RECALL WALL !!!!. lol

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trump_suit 7 years, 5 months ago

WOW, I go to work this morning with only two posts in this forum, and come back to 82.

I am very heartened by the direction I see some of you taking with this discussion. There have been some extremely disturbing things being said about Sheriff Wall, and anyone who supports him on these forums. I have heard him blamed for everything from new drug users in Routt County to the tourist economy. I think it is pretty hard to be so upset with anyone in only 60 days work. Almost every job gives you a 90 day probationary period!

Is it not possible for the people of this county to have a meaningful discussion about drugs in our community without resorting to name calling and personal attacks? Just becuase some of us disagree about the correct approach to the problem does not mean that we should be viscious and mean on a personal level.

Good luck with your recall petition davinci, As I remember, Sheriff Wall was elected with 64% of the popular vote, and we definitely need to hear from some of those that voted for him instead of this constant tirade of complaints. How about we give him an honest assessment at 6 months and 1 year?????

I must agree that he lost his cool at yesterday's meeting, and has not handled the publicity aspects of his position very well as of yet. However, how many of you would handle the venom that was thrown at him without responding in kind??? You will not find me carte blanche supporting anyone or anything in these forums, but it is my opinion that Sheriff Wall has not been given a fair chance to even implement his policies let alone show any results.

At the very least, he deserves a chance to show what his policies can do. The citizens of Routt County that voted for him deserve that even if you don't believe that he does.

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trump_suit 7 years, 5 months ago

PS. I stand corrected, I just looked it up, and the margin was 4313 to 3456 or 55.52% to 44.48%. My statements stand, Sheriff Wall was elected by a clear majority.

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trump_suit 7 years, 5 months ago

Gotta go with the Custard too :)

Prohibition in the 20's did not work, and neither will the current drug war. Just look at the economics of the problem. The number of drug users must be far higher than any study has shown in order to create the current black market ecomony. It must also include many upper and middle class citizens, the poor simply do not have that much cash.

It is time to consider fighting this problem with a different approach, the current one is not working.

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trump_suit 7 years, 5 months ago

Davinci,

I respect and support your right to express your opinion on this or any issue. Why is it that you must resort to name calling and viscious personal attacks? You clearly have strong opinions on the issues that would be much more effective in convincing others if they were professional in deamenor and stuck to the issues at hand. When you engage in personal attacks and petty comments, it cheapens your words and diminishes us all.

You are obviously smart and well educated to express yourself so clearly. It is unfortunate that you choose to weaken your postions with such cheap personal attacks.

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

maybe hat should be the opinion ? next week- is custard better in a boston creme?

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cheesehead 7 years, 5 months ago

A boston cream donut has to contain some kind of cream, while a boston creme does not. I've never been able to tell the difference, can anyone else?

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goldilocks 7 years, 5 months ago

i think the donut simply has a hole in the center, while the plain boston creme is either shaped like a small long john or a whole circle. maybe we should consult dunkin donuts, or mr. winchell for some clarification.

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Slapper 7 years, 5 months ago

I want that damn plain maple long john with nuts bad! Some segments of society want drugs worse. That will never change. People will always find a way to alter their consciousness. Attempts to legislate morals with prohibition is doomed to failure as the war on drugs is the perfect example. People have been doing this forever and it will never be any different.

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Hadleyburg_Press 7 years, 5 months ago

Is it spring yet? The cabin fever around here seems to be whipping the froth up amongst our mostly friendly forum critics. Wall or Wiggins, does it really matter? Perhaps in minor localized predetermined increments. At my age the melancholy like cynicism allows me to be blind to most optimisims involving humans and power. Now as for donuts, I am partial to Beignets. The Northern European version with cheese or the Spanish version with fresh bananas. A strong cup of Espresso and a long walk along an ancient cobblestone narrow street abustle with the sound of fishermen hawking their early morning catch of the day...

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trump_suit 7 years, 5 months ago

Is it possible for Donuts to be "mind altering"??

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fish 7 years, 5 months ago

Yes, Lucille's serve them, but if you have ever eaten the real thing you will be disappointed.

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kingsride 7 years, 5 months ago

silly rabbit, if it was spring the snow would be off the new athletic fields at the high school. But one thing I will say: Davinci#s, you have a pair of balls the size of grapefruits.

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techdubb12 7 years, 5 months ago

Ho ho ho, the war on drugs. Can anyone tell me how the century old, international war on opium is going? (Here's a hint, it's still going.)

Boodog makes an excellent point about double standards. If government/law enforcement officials REALLY want to take a stand on drugs, then alcohol and tobacco would have to be illegal. Why you might ask? Oh... well... because they're drugs.

Am I making a case to legalize all drugs? No. That would cause a boom in drug use and drug related crime.

Here's a suggestion: ACTUALLY educate our children about drugs. If DARE is anything like it was thirteen years ago, then I'd say it's part of the problem. Furthermore, where is the parental involvement in this anti-drug campaign? Anyone.... anyone?

And might I also suggest exercising logic and knowledge in the problem solving process. Debates based on emotional bias and financial concern will lead to... well: right where we are.

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trump_suit 7 years, 5 months ago

You know boo, the personal attacks and slander don't sound any better coming from you than they do from anyone else.

Why can't we keep this discussion on a professional level???

PS. Colorado Law gives both Sheriff Wall and Under Sheriff Bustos 12 months to become POST certified. I certainly hope it does not take that long, but expecting it to happen in the first 30-60 days seems a little unreasonable to me.

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Gladys 7 years, 5 months ago

I think is it hilarious that boo is so obsessed with Davinci. I am willing to bet she thinks of ways to get him all riled up. And he falls for it every single time - what a moron. LOL

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Slapper 7 years, 5 months ago

This woman's real name is no recent revelation. She herself left her name on this forum long ago when she posted a letter to the editor through the forum rather than by e-mail. I have always called her Ann because of that and also because she is just as venomous as the real Ann. To blame someone else for outing this person does not carry much weight when it was already in the public domain. It's too bad I didn't get to use it because a person as vile as her deserves the same. Boo has every right to say what he has and definitely most of it is right on and poses some interesting scenarios.

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