Wall tells GRAMNET 'no'

Routt County Sheriff's Office pulls funding, opfficer from drug task force

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Gary Wall

— The Routt County Sheriff's Office will not contribute to the Greater Routt and Moffat Narcotics Enforcement Team, Sheriff Gary Wall said Thursday.

Wall said the results of GRAMNET's work do not justify the $115,000 the county contributes to the drug task force.

"As other former participating agencies have said, 'There is just not enough bang for the buck,'" he said.

Wall said he made the decision after evaluating GRAMNET's drug seizures and meeting with drug task force commander Garrett Wiggins and other law enforcement officers.

Wall also accused GRAMNET officers of abusing individuals' civil liberties and constitutional rights in their investigative and arrest tactics.

"During my campaign for sheriff, I said I would do what I could to protect these individual rights," he said.

Wiggins had asked Wall for a decision by today.

Wiggins has said GRAMNET will continue to function, though Routt County's withdrawal might affect the support GRAMNET will be able to provide Northwest Colorado residents.

Comments

trump_suit 7 years, 2 months ago

There is one thing that I must completely agree with here. Meth is an equal opportunity killer regardless of class, economic status or education. When it gets ahold of someone the results are never good.

It should surprise no one that Gary Wall will not be financing GRAMNET after listening to the two candidates for Sheriff debate. The voters of this county elected the man that they felt was the better choice by a fairly large margin. It seems to me that our county would be better served by supporting his efforts than in tearing down each other and predicting doom and gloom for everyone because of a few changes.

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kingsride 7 years, 2 months ago

I would invite anyone who believes this is "Paradise found" to be in Ski Time Square or snake alley downtown when the bars close. It is indeed a lovely place in the daytime but im tellin you folks..It aint always pretty in the city. Oh, and meth? Have you been to the village inn lately to watch the tweaking waitress? Funny, if you never open your eyes, you never see anything.

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katrinkakelly 7 years, 2 months ago

HHmmmmmm, Montana,

Steamboat's PARADISE FOUND is OUTDOORS!

Not in bars or restaraunts!!

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blueheeler 7 years, 2 months ago

Humm........well let's see, Wiggins ran against Wall in the election, Wiggins is the commander of the Drug Enforcement Division and now Wall is cutting funding .....do you smell what I'm smelling? Civil liberties,,, for drug dealers? WOW where have I been?

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whyquestion 7 years, 2 months ago

trump are you right about positives????/ can we see the positives???? like less cases in court means smaller court system right????? like less lawyers in town right?? ??? like more houses on the market right???? like less jobs and less pay right????? like downsizing routt county right???? like expansion of hospital and funeral home right???? like more suicides and deaths????? didn't that work in oc when gramnet left thanks to "deficit"cargo????like more ambulance crews???? like less jobs in the tourist industry.might also solve illegal immagration problem right????like a new chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving right????like housing prices dropping so locals could afford a house if they still had a job right?????Like tourist will feel safer right????? like what positives does this new sheriff have???? why is wall so secretive about how he is going to solve the drug problems????? after he was elected i wonder if he said to himself 'now what in the hell do I do????? then did he call the man he loves, who may have helped bail him out before in vail ???????? think people??????how does this man look so far to the routt county economy?????ouch??????

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katrinkakelly 7 years, 2 months ago

Thank God That Routt County will not spend anymore money on methamphetamine in Craig!

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Gladys 7 years, 2 months ago

HA!!! You are delusional if you think the only drug problem is in Craig.

What a HUGE mistake to vote in the "lawless" Wall. Steamboat is going to Hell in a handbasket. More people, less law - what a concept.

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katrinkakelly 7 years, 2 months ago

My only point is that most of the meth problems are in Craig!

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

The "war on drugs" is a total failure and is nothing more than giving money to cops so that they will have something to do. Rather than waste this money on Gramnet the money could well be spent on additional road deputies. Remember, Grand County decided to not fund Gramnet sometime ago so it is not just "lawless" Gary who realizes that the money could be better spent elsewhere. Also, the DEA pulled out of participation with Gramnet. The Sheriff has made the right decision.

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katrinkakelly 7 years, 2 months ago

Drug problems are allover.

Do you have an issue with Gary Wall?

How can you say Steamboat is going to hell? You obviously have not been in this county for over thirty years like myself or you would know better than to say that.

This is PARADISE found!

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id04sp 7 years, 2 months ago

Let's see if he comes up with any big cases before we abandon ship. A couple of big arrests in Routt County might do more good than 100 meth busts in Craig.

Wouldn't it be somethin' if Wall put a few people in jail who were preventing the system from working to protect us? There are a few key players who must be honest and diligent if we are going to put away the big boys and girls. Somehow I just don't think that Wall ran for office so he could prevent RCSO officers from making drug arrests. There were certainly not many big cases made in past 12 years, were there? Is that because there's no cocaine tafficking in Routt County? I think I doubt that very much.

I tend to agree with Wall that a first MIP with no aggravating factors may be a reason to send a kid home with a warning. Let's see what he does about the second MIP before we pass judgment. Give him time to perform or screw up, because we sure gave the last guy plenty of time.

If the place goes to heck over the next six months, a recall will be warranted, and will be successful. Wall's refusal to stick with the status quo doesn't bother me at all -- yet -- and I hope he makes a whole bunch of changes for the better. It's up to him, and the voters have given him the chance.

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CoJustice 7 years, 2 months ago

I predicted this on previous posts.

The link between drug use and crime are clearly established. Most drug users are problematic and use crime to feed their habit. They damage our communities and are a threat to our children.

The next item I predict that will come out of the Sheriff's office with be a change in DUI enforcement and tactics.

God help our children and citizens with the possible deadly consequences that may emerge in our community.

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observer 7 years, 2 months ago

Gramnet has been an embarrassment to the otherwise honest and hard-working law enforcement agencies of Routt County. We tried it their way, it didn't work. Gramnet should follow the same ethical guidelines as other law enforcement agencies. Working on a special task force shouldn't give license to run rough-shod over people's rights and dignity. The drug problem needs to be dealt with. We need to approach it intelligently and with insight. The "bully mentality" just isn't cutting it.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

dear davinici,

I recall that you were spouting off regarding the pig food caper. GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How about Grand County?? I haven't heard you going after them. What's up with that? Your buddy Garrett did not win. The voters did not want the likes of a bully like him. GRAMNET is nothing more than Miami Vice type bullies doing little more than giving themselves something to do. Let them go back to their agencies and be cops and deputies. Regarding Gary (excuse me the "jester"(?) as you call him) not enforcing DUI's where is your information on that coming from??? If you want others to "put up or shut up" lets hear it from you.

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CoJustice 7 years, 2 months ago

The strategy of most law enforcement and intervention programs is to reduce drug related crimes, reduce supply and protect our youth from becoming users. This program has made a positive contribution.

You now have persons in leadership positions in the County (Gary Wall) and City (JD) that think alike. You are not only going to have to recall Gary Wall, but the City Council needs to get rid of JD.

I think is going to take a tragedy and law suite before some positive changes will be made.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 2 months ago

Sheriff Coletrane nixed funds to GRAMNET, most likely, to get back to upping Deputy Enos' pay rate.

Since Peabody123 mentioned for davinci to put up or shut up, I'd like to see that applied to show evidence on how many people's rights were abused by GRAMNET and were proven to be abusive.

For all Drug Users: You are now free to enter Routt County at your leisure without fear of reprisal! You've just won the E-Ticket!!! All we ask is that you don't piss on the stoop...unless you just can't hold it. Wouldn't want to step on the civil liberties involved in pissing in public.

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CoJustice 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree. I would like to see actual court case documents that state someone's "civil liberties" have been violated. Not the town drunk meetings that Gary Wall orchestrated for City Council's entertainment. You're not going to find one. Only cases where Gary was paid to hire, professional witness to events he never actually witnessed.

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goldilocks 7 years, 2 months ago

peabody- Wall wants to let everyone get a free pass on thier first DUI offense. Drunk drivers will be given rides home if they are caught above the legal limit for the first time. These were promises made during the campaign.

But if you really think about it, this means that no one will ever get a DUI b/c there will be no record of your first or second or third time getting a ride home. And what happens when one of the deupties is giving one of these drunks a ride home and they are needed for an emergency in another part of the county? What are they supposed to do with the drunk that they can't arrest becuase they are afraid for their job?

So Kielbasa, add to your sign: Welcome drug users and drunk drivers.

Cojustice: JD and Wall do NOT think alike and are not alike in the way they run their repective agencies. The people that work under JD resepct him and how he manages the PD. On the other hand, there are few members of the SO that repsect Wall. It isn't fair to compare the two.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

Dear Davinci,

For your information GRAND County does NOT contribute to GRAMNET. They decided to break that off several years ago. Garrett will confirm that.

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techdubb12 7 years, 2 months ago

davinci:

"PUT UP OR SHUT UP - PROVIDE FACTS AND SOLID UNDISPUTABLE FACTS..."?

Please apply the above statement to the following:

1) "He also terminated Rachelle Redmond for the same reasons. Bitter and petty insecurities he has towards Garrett Wiggins and Rachelle."

2) "...with Jester's open door, now comes easier access to guns, personnel files, employees and most importantly the violation of CIVIL LIBERTIES for each and every employee at the RCSO."

3) "He needs to ensure that he and Bustos are getting paid for on the job training and for studying for the POST test."

You'll note that since sbvor started including factual citations, (s)he's been taken much more seriously and sparking productive debates. I am not in disagreement or agreement with your previous statements, just would like to see some more factual debate.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 2 months ago

Goldilocks- Sign is now changed!!! Any other law breakers we are "abusing" that should be added, let me know. Maybe Rosco P. can put my signs in place of his old campaign signs on the white pickup truck.

For all Drug Users & Drunks: You are now free to enter Routt County at your leisure without fear of reprisal! You've just won the E-Ticket!!! All we ask is that you don't piss on the stoop...unless you just can't hold it. Wouldn't want to step on the civil liberties involved in pissing in public.

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CoJustice 7 years, 2 months ago

Goldilocks: I respect your opinion. However, JD was OVER involved in the Sheriffs race, and quite destructive with regards to candidates. I was very concerned for law enforcement officers during Gary Walls alcohol performance to the city. I don't recall JD defending or protected officers during that fiasco. I commend the SSPD for protecting the community against drunk drivers, and doing the right thing. DRUNK DRIVERS KILL.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

You may be surprised to know that I believe that drunk drivers should be prosecuted. I'm sure that JD and Gary share that belief.

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corduroy 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm all for not supporting GRAMNET this doesn't mean that they are disappearing. They will still be around, they have government funding.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

I have had discussions with local law enforcement and they ALL agreed that Gary's decision not to keep Rachelle, and the Dan's was the correct move. Sorry Davinci.

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katrinkakelly 7 years, 2 months ago

My previous comments are FACTS:

Most of the area meth problems are in Craig. Drug problems are allover!

Davinci is the "flake" on this forum who has done too much "snow"!

Go away, irritant and take your psychobabble with you!

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goldilocks 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't know who you have talked to peabody, but I have talked to many of them as well, and they ALL say it was a mistake. The biggest issue people have is the way in which it was handled. I don't care who you are, it is not fair to a person who has worked in any position for as long as Rachelle did, to give them 24 hours notice to vacate thier positon. Wall knew months ago that he would terminate them. He should have at least given them a heads up even a week in advance. But having a messenger deliver a letter the day before they are to leave? That is just disrepectful and cowardly.

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Scott Wedel 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree that Gary Wall as sheriff has been inept at public relations. He should have named the cases and law enforcement techniques where he thought civil rights were violated. For instance, during the campaign I told him that I had once been pulled over for speeding in Utah, but the officer saw me, a man with a ponytail wearing a tiedye shirt that day, and asked if he could search my car and that if I allowed him that he would not give me a ticket. I was 15 mph over speed limit and clean so I allowed the search to get out of the ticket. When Gary Wall heard that story, he said he did not like officers routinely asking citizens to give up their civil rights especially when the officer's only reason to suspect I had drugs was prejudice. I thought that was an excellent answer.

Want a case where a citizen's rights were violated? I know one of the top of my head and GRAMNET has never apologized to him.

Dan Nord, medicinal marijuana user. registered with the state according to state law, busted by GRAMNET, court eventually orders all of his stuff to be returned. GRAMNET refuses saying the are federal agents and they follow federal law when it conflicts with state law.

The big problem with meth is that it is so easy to make at home that law enforcement going after supply appears to have no impact upon usage. And I challenge anyone to find any study that details how a law enforcement campaign focused upon supply has ever had a serious impact upon supply.

I recall one study done in the 70s regarding Baltimore's effective campaign on heroin that more than tripled the price of the drug on the street. The net result was a huge increase in theft and burglary rate because the addicts were determined to get their daily fix. In contrast, treatment programs have been shown to be effective, certainly more cost effective than having people sit in jail cells.

Drug dealers and crime can overrun neighborhoods, but the solution to that is to go house by house, street by street, getting the dealers and bad people out via a heavy patrol presence and good people in that call the police when they witness criminal activity. That is not GRAMNET's approach or mandate.

Lastly, I dare anyone to claim that they would have used drugs, but were stopped because it was against the law and if breaking the law was not the reason then the reason was because they were unable to find a drug dealer. The reason I do not use drugs, get drunk on a regular basis or smoke is because I do not want to ruin my life, ruin my health or ruin my family.

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whyquestion 7 years, 2 months ago

what will wall replace the gramnet program with????? big trouble way up cnty rd 129 this weekend???? are tourist safe in routt county?????when will wall fully staff his department?????? could there have been a murder????doesn't wall need to protect law abiding people in routt county ?????? wasn't that what he was elected to do????? will people need to protect themselves?????what happened to protect and serve??????will anarchy rule in routt county???

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goldilocks 7 years, 2 months ago

question- a few additions: when will Wall get certified???? when will Wall actually get stuff fixed in the jail, not just talk about it???? when excatly is the 6 months up for recall????

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CoJustice 7 years, 2 months ago

Interesting story::.....poor excuse:::.Gary has different reasons:..Gary has done so much bar talk that he forgets who he tells what. I am still waiting for Gary to come clean with his alcohol-police association Arizona story. That would be the honorable thing to do. It was many, many years ago. Maybe too much alcohol has caused memory loss.

As for officers respecting JD. I remember about seven or eight years ago, officers were threatened with their careers and jobs for trying to organize a union. If you have confidence and trust in your leaders, you don't try and join a union.

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goldilocks 7 years, 2 months ago

That was in the past. I am talking about current officers with the PD, many of who have joined the force more recently that 7-8 years ago. JD is a much better leader and manager than Warener was at the SO. (Yeah I know he is gone). But the administration personnel at the SO hasn't change all that much (Warner and Taylor only). So things aren't all that different there. At least John and Dan were certified.

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Scott Wedel 7 years, 2 months ago

More cases of civil rights. Yes, they are not recent, but I was recently told that GRAMNET had never properly apologized or replaced all the property they improperly seized.

And Dan Nord is the perfect case to argue against GRAMNET because he was following state and local law. There is no reasonable argument against the fact that his rights under state law were violated. GRAMNET and the feds did not dispute that his rights under state law had been violated, they argued it was a federal case. The court upheld his arrest and seizure on the grounds that GRAMNET had federalized it's officers and so that when doing that raid the officers were not local, but federal law enforcement.

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Scott Wedel 7 years, 2 months ago

And I am still waiting to hear why YOU don't use drugs. My point is that drugs being illegal or the police arresting dealers does not stop people from using drugs. If you think otherwise then tell me who would have used drugs if only they were legal. Or who would have used drugs if only they had found a supplier.

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nikobesti 7 years, 2 months ago

Scott, thanks for the great post. I would just add one thing to you note to respond to a few ignorant posts: It's ridiculous to think meth users would just pick up and relocate to Steamboat because GRAMNET is not funded. Give me a break. I'm sure meth users are reading all the local newspapers in the West right now, looking for these situations. Who they know in these places, how they might afford to live there, none of that matters-only whether GRAMNET has $. LOL!

davinci: yes, federal law trumps state. But the Nord debacle was still a COMPLETE waste of resources. That's Wall's point, and he's dead on.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

All this has been for the most part is the usual Wall bashing from the right wing Wiggins losers. They still have yet to answer the issue of GRAMNET and Grand County refusing to dump money into this losing battle. Gary did just the same and as taxpayers we should be grateful that some one is responsible enough to spend the money elsewhere where it is better used.

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goldilocks 7 years, 2 months ago

Maybe Wall's idea of better use for the money will be to hire taxi drivers to take drunks home so they don't get DUI's, or hire county tow trucks with winches to pull people out of the snow banks, or maybe he plans to utilize the monies for Bustos' grand raise that he so deserves.

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id04sp 7 years, 2 months ago

What was the trouble on CR 129? Can somebody fill me in?

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Scott Wedel 7 years, 2 months ago

To be accurate, minutes from Grand County meetings say that they put in a small contribution, less than $10K, and were so remote from the rest of GRAMNET that they were not getting their money's worth. That the decision had nothing to do with GRAMNET's policies or overall effectiveness.

I had been told that GRAMNET had become unpopular in Grand County, but all I could find was their sheriff saying it was such a nonpresence that funding it could not be justified.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

Do you have some inside (?) knowledge that Gary will not enforce DUI's ?? Were on earth does this come from ???? Just more Wall bashing from someone who doesn't have a clue??

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goldilocks 7 years, 2 months ago

One of Gary's campaign ideas was to give first DUI offenders a ride home instead of giving them a DUI. And that his deputites would be expected to follow this policy. This is not inside knowledge, it was public during the campaign.

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peabody123 7 years, 2 months ago

This is ABSOLUTELY not true. He was referring to first time MIP cases (just like Buddy Grinstead did).

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cheesehead 7 years, 2 months ago

I have a case. About five years ago I was on the porch with my roomates watching police rummage through a house on the hill. When we saw a cop on the end of the block talking to guy riding his bike (the home owner), we noticed all the police running out of the house. I talked to the owner a couple of weeks later and guess what, no warrant. Now I don't know if they were GRAMNET agents or regular 'ol Steamboat cops, but I don't like the idea of ANYONE sneaking around my house. That's all I have.... I've heard lots of creepy stories about GRAMNET and Steamboat police, but this one I witnessed.

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Matthew Stoddard 7 years, 2 months ago

Cheesehead- any link to what might have provoked that search to shed any light or is it just word of mouth?

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cheesehead 7 years, 2 months ago

I was told he was the subject of a drug dealing investigation, and they got it wrong. The owner told me this so naturally its quite subjective. But watching the police trying to sneak out of the house was freaky, and since nothing made to the paper or trial I have no reason to doubt him.

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trump_suit 7 years, 2 months ago

I have never heard Gary Wall, or any member of any Routt County Law enforcement agency call the use of illegal drugs, or DUI an acceptable thing. Let's at least be a little realistic here people.

Davinci, you wrote:

"Did you know that the NUMBER ONE ABUSER of meth in this country is a middle aged white female married with kids. SHe is probably just like some of your elitist zip code neighbors. Meth is an equal opportunity drug. It's fairly cheap, easy to make and ADDICTIVE ON THE FIRST GO ROUND"

I am calling you on this, who is this person, and how do you get your information. Have you ever know anyone that has used Meth? Back in the 60's, the government issued the same blanket statements about the use a marajuana, and those blanket pronouncements are so very rarely true.

Let me be clear. I do not support the use or abuse of drugs whether they be legal or illegal. However, the current "War on Drugs" is a mistake and it has produced a black market gang culture that is a higher cost to our society than the drugs themselves.

Look at the current grass roots efforts to curb smoking and organizations like MADD. In my opinion, those efforts have been far more effective at limiting tobacco/alchohol abuse amoung teenagers than the "War on Drugs". Tell me that the current trends against cigarette smoking in this country would be more effective if tobacco was illegal. I think that the overall usage numbers are pretty telling.

We should teach our children to avoid these substances, and help those members of our society that are in trouble. Our money would be far better spent in education and treatment than in the current policies. Did not prohibition teach us anything?

PS. I remain confused about the antagonism to our new Sherriff. Living in North Routt, I have seen a much more frequent presence by the Sheriff's office over the last several months. Their increased presence in my neck of the woods has been noticed. Anyone else?

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CoJustice 7 years, 2 months ago

Trump suit: Gary Wall campaigned for Sheriff for all the wrong reasons. He never embraced the community as to how he was going meet the challenges of the future and protect citizens. Gary is so behind with today's crimes, that it's embarrassing. Example computer crimes, identity theft, children's safety, underage drinking, etc.

Gary was elected by placing panic in people. He lined his pockets by giving false hope and intimidating citizens into believing law enforcement was the enemy by placing blame on someone else, or find holes in the case. His community meetings and testimony in court are a perfect example of this.

Gary replaced word like "probable cause" with "your civil liberties". As you stated "Let's at least be a little realistic here people.

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Scott Wedel 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't see how Gary Wall panicked anyone. Wiggins panicked people by being a member of GRAMNET and not admitting that GRAMNET had ever made mistakes.

Davinci, maybe you should spend more time reading your sources because your references do not support your claim that: "Did you know that the NUMBER ONE ABUSER of meth in this country is a middle aged white female married with kids."

In fact, following your provided link to the Semple study reveals that 8% of their sample was currently married and 54% had never been married.

As for the ABC story, many more men are arrested than women. So even if women being arrested are somewhat more likely than men to blame meth, because more men are being arrested it still means more men are being arrested due to meth.

And just because among super achieving women that have drug problems their problem drug might be meth, it does not mean that is a common problem. In fact, putting your "facts" together refutes that claim.

Your sources do support a statement such as "When a middle aged married white mom has a drug problem, it is likely she is addicted to meth".

And I am still waiting for someone to tell me who is not using drugs solely because it is against the law or because they could not find a drug dealer.

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cheesehead 7 years, 2 months ago

As a teenager there were many drugs I may have done if they were readily available, thank God they weren't.

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