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Teddy Roosevelt said: "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, becasue there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
".. the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic- the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."
"Criticism is necessary and useful; it is often indispensable; but it can never take the place of action, or even be a poor substitute for it. The function of the mere critic is of very subordinate usefulness. It is the doer of deeds who actually counts in the battle for life, and not the man who looks on and says how the fight ought to be fought, without himself sharing the stress and the danger."
Sbvor and btheball - which are you?
I can see the response now:
"Roosevelt was a liberal so what he said means nothing."
Good luck, Nitro. It'll be like talking to porridge: it's lumpy, has no flavor of it's own to speak of, and is usually grey & dull looking.
Kielbasa, you were right - the response was like old, gray, lumpy oatmeal with the same "Blah, blah, blah." Maybe the soapbox will get buried in all this snow.
Sbvor, you only reinforce Teddy's quote and you answered the question - Critic.
Those of us who work tirelessly to help inform voters ARE the men and women "in the arena".
I believe you meant you (meaning YOU) who works tirelessly spouting your right wing propaganda to the amusement of the voters who know what a buffoon you really are.
the only arena you will work in is one of the rings in a circus.
I will work tirelessly to put down your drivel.
guess that makes me a doer and a critic.
P.S. how did you like those job #'s today, fool?
Perfect message to the bs artist(bore) formerly unknown as "average joe".
Wasn't all that long ago that a mention of TR (in my estimation the greatest pres) would get my post buried under a wave of responses from local neo-con Bushies.
I feel very strongly that there is a little TR in the flawed candidate McCain- he is an effective and honest deal-maker who listens to the other side, and actually THINKS.
His flaws may be the least serious of ANY candidate, and if, like TR he is a closet environmentalist (which I think he is), special interests who now are poised to do great damage to our present and future legacy will not be happy with some of the outcomes.
But he is also a TRUE conservative with zero tolerance for the pork-barrell. He is NOT a war-monger, just WILL see that a humilliating and disastrous exit from Iraq is avoided by effective and intelligent military and civil planning.
I think he is a TR waiting to happen and the multi-national mega corporations fear him greatly. He is not a prostitute for special interests. He is about The United States of America and I hope he gets a chance to (yet again) serve.
It seems that some members of this forum continue their assault against elected officials, school boards, and their respective staffs in complete anonymity while those they assail have their name and identity in the media everyday. All of you have the freedom to voice your opinion in a public forum, where it might be taken more seriously, and invite others (whether they agree or disagree) into an active dialogue with those elected and/or selected members who have made the abysmal mistakes on which you rant. Perhaps then, should the majority prevail, the desired results may occur.
Doer not Critic.
Often the Critic tends to become individuals like Dave Barry so eloquently describes:
"I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. "
Again, sbvor proves himself a Critic and continues to play "Can You Top This!"
Can't say I've ever been to a party on the Upper East Side of Manhattan but sure have been to quite a few here in Steamboat. Have you?
No, sbvor, I don't really think you would fit into a group of people who don't have a fear of PUBLICLY expressing their opinion instead of throwing out insults at people anonymously in order to make yourself feel like a bigger person than you really are.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions - Confucius
I'm not being hypocritical, I wouldn't invite you to any of my parties either!!! The negative energy would be a complete downer.
"People who say it cannot be done should not interupt those who are doing it." - Whitney Young Jr.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
sbvor - the reason so many people in this community are afraid to comment publicly is because you will personally attack them for any idea. Your's is not the only way.
Please refer to 1 and 2 above.
. . . had a mind like a steel trap, only it had been left out so long, it had rusted shut.
When the day comes that you post your name next to your handle and THEN spew your rhetoric, then and only then, will you cease to be the pot calling the kettle black while drowning in your very own sea of hypocrisy.
Dinobore loves exposing...things.
Hypocrites...you mean the ones that espouse censorship but get their thong in the wrong crack when someone deletes their posts?
January 2, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Okay, I can live with deleting the purely ad hominem even when it's objectively accurate.
Maybe it will help keep people focused on the issues."
Wow! Your very own name calling session. Sad.
Nitro, I liked the initial post, after that?
What specifically is getting done here?
No, the quote WAS in context. YOU had to "explain" yourself. Too bad you did an awful job of it. It's YOUR own words.
Riiight. I stole your identity again and posted words under your login just like your Average Joe login. Yep- how discrediting to anyone other than yourself.
Sounds like the Bore forgot to wake up this decade since the Bore's still dreaming.
Shall I post a picture of you in a lucid moment?
Does someone have to be popular to be right or to participate in the sharing of ideas? Why attack Sbvor and not their arguments? I do not agree with everything that Sbvor puts forth, but I am willing to spar only with the idea and not the person so why not anonimity? We are only migrating towards a better understanding of that which is true in the unattainable absolute aren't we? Right or wrong, being able to bring one's thoughts to the electronic version of the city square is trully the gift of a free society. TR was a great leader, but the tools of our age have changed the dynamics of what constitutes action and a fluid progression of knowledge. This process in and of itself betters our society and I find that to be a valuable form of "doing" in a modern sense.
Only my opinion.
Oh yes, one more thought. Who gets to determine what constitutes "criticism"?
Didn't answer the ? Bore- Shall I? I can always take no answer as a "Yes."
I agree that posting can be done anonymously if done without maliciousness. When all else fails, some posters resort to the lowest level of debate - personal attacks and name calling. There can be some give and take, but others prefer to see only their way without having an open to mind to hear (or read) what others are saying. As Steamboatrealitycheck stated "had a mind like a steal trap only it had been out so long it rusted shut."
Forums like these should be to enlighten and inform, not provide a place for certain posters to constantly wag their fingers at the rest of us naughty children for not thinking the way they think. A forum is an opportunity to meet, discuss and yes, debate the issues. Let's see if there can be some real input without reverting back to school yard bullying.
The purpose of the post was to encourage participation in being the change rather than sitting in front of a computer, criticizing those who are out there trying to effect the change.
Be the Doer.
Hadley- When an outside interest tries to sell propaganda to the masses, no matter what form and tries to debate thru repetition when denounced, the only thing left to do is dogpile on the monkey. Plus- nobody says "Who's your Daddy!" any longer. That right there is reason enough to denounce someone. Right up there with putting ketchup on a hot dog. Tool of the Devil.
You say, "How do you know it's an outside interest?" As I've explained before, Bore accused me of stealing the Average Joe identity a couple years ago on this site. Basically, accusing me of a crime and DEMANDED an apology. That pissed me off so I did some investigation and lo and behold: I discovered the person sitting on the keyboard crapper who types bowel movements. I now know the motivations behind posting said crap, so I will fight it every way possible. Extremism must be met with extremism...kind of like how the Borecrite says it's okay to use our enemy tactics to get what we want due to Moral Equivalence.
Pretty soon, I will make myself get banned by posting addy, phone, and name of the Bore. Not yet- but a pic will probably surface soon. Just never know when I'll decide to do it. 2 other people share this secret with me and that's all...for now. Bore's "pretty sure" I don't know..."pretty sure." Evidently, not sure enough. Sucks to think your anonymous when really not. It means you CAN be held accountable for what you say, but only when I deem it the right time to do so.
Or, if I don't feel like getting banned, maybe I'll just PM the people who contact me, wondering who the Bore is and we all can play! Plus, what can revealing an identity online do? It's only words...and those who are non-PC aren't afraid of words, whether their own or someone else's, right?
How do you know what an individual does when they are not posting, or what they have done in the past to participate in animate society? Do they need to announce their actions to meet with the approval of the, dare I say, "critics"? Perhaps Sbvor's orations are redundant, but would you suggest interjecting your approach? Why? Who cares how Sbvor choses to communicate. Parse it down to the kernal and engage. Our brains are designed to filter. Having said that, I do agree that actions speak louder than words. After all, when one's life is finally tallied up, we are just a compliation of deeds. Hopefully, more deeds residing on the "good" side of the ledger. Now, I think I will
"Do the beer..."
I respect you and your opinions. I really have no comment on your spat with Sbvor other than to say that you and Sbvor remind of neighbors...
I am all for an open mind so long as it isn't so open that my brains fall out.
And another lie spews forth. You accused me of stealing your identity. Identity theft is a crime. Grab your abacus and do the math. Evidently, the right wing Elephant's memory makes him look like a left wing ass.
Methinks thou didn't protest enough, eh?
You do remember that part, right? How you told me when I laughed at your accusation at first; that I didn't protest enough? Works both ways to insinuate guilt, dontcha think?
Better to keep that info under your hat, I like reading your posts, and would miss your voice on hits forum. I actually met the 'bor this summer, but didn't know it at the time. He is as crazy as anyone on the forum, why let it bother you so much?
My biggest beef if that he acts so childish with all the commie and liberal slandering, grow up 'vor and try to make a point without insulting people who disagree with your posts. Can't you just debate?
PS; what's wrong with ketsup on hotdogs? next you will tell me that pickles and cheese are no no's as well.
Pickles and cheese on a Hot dog?? Eeeeewwwww! On a burger, yes!! LOL! For a hot dog- relish, maybe. Jerk Spice? Definitely!!!
While I can't stand ketchup at all, it's a reference to Dirty Harry. "Nobody, but nobody puts ketchup on a hot dog anymore!" Sudden Impact 1983.
Facts are malleable, depending on the words you use. And the best lies have a bit of truth in them. It doesn't make the right, though. In that aspect, Bore does the same thing as the accused IPCC: interprets dishonestly. Take the above statement that I was never accused of a crime. Bulls4!T, plain and simple. What makes it worse is the idiot DEMANDED an apology from me, all the while accusing me of a crime with no evidence whatsoever. That's how anonymous people get away with saying crap: there is no way to hold them accountable.
sbvor says "I've not criticized ANYBODY who is "out there trying to effect... [productive] change"" The work "productive" was inserted and not part of my original statement, which implies that only changed deemed productive by sbvor is immune from his criticism.
As many of you know, sbvor not only criticizes others for their thoughts, but belittles and disparages others quite freely. In case you haven't noticed, sbvor hasn't posted lately and the comments are much more constructive.
As I said, the purpose of the original post was to increase awareness of what is being said and how it can be used to best bring about the desired changes in OUR community.
I suggest the posters to this forum refrain from doing battle with the self-appointed "voice of reason" - his rantings and bullying offer very little to effect "productive" change.
Hey! Believe it or not summer will come and at my campsite your options will be Chili, Ketchup, Mustard, Diced Onions, Cheese and Jalepenos! Yes I said Ketchup. An seein that this is a bronsonville braut, only the most powerful sausage on the grill and we fill you clean up, I have to ask, Do you want Ketchup? Well?
My pop told me, "Its not only what you do but how you do it." I like to think he was referring to the quality of the job at hand. Lets have a debate that doesn't carry over accusation and innuendo. It detracts from the subject.
Nitro-You are so right. All the links are tiresome. It's like you can't say "Have a nice day" unless you have 20 links to back it up. And kielbasa-I like ketchup on my hot dogs, plus mustard and relish.
hah heh hahahahaha
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