hey sbvor, still think we aren't in a recession?

Comments

stompk (anonymous) says...

Wow! Just in. Bank of America. Last quarter earnings down 90%!

I would pull my money out of their bank.

January 22, 2008 at 6:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080121/world_...
our little bubble may be set to burst soon.
short the market
short the consumer.
cancel that ski trip to Steamboat so we can pay the mortgage that just reset 2.5% higher!
Bush fiddles while our economy burns.
Gonna waste 150 Billion$ so we can all get $800. yeah right, that'll help. total idiocy.
Got puts?

January 21, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

See? Again you prove the point that you don't read anything but your own links.

It was steamboatconscience...not stomp, idiot.

Again- you also prove my point about disputing things just as liberal.

Bush is the one who's pushing for a rebate to "spur the econonmy." Why do that if the econonmy is going strong?

Also, a market correction doesn't have the Dow drop almost 1000 pts in less than a month. Married to a family of stockbrokers, thank you very much!

January 21, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

corduroy (anonymous) says...

sbvor's lack of reading skillz is funny :) thanks for making me smile

January 21, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Nut jobs? Ad Hominem Central!

Proof of the move to the Left for the Bore! So...1929 was just a "correction" of 17% in a month, right? Uh-huh.

How about 13% "intraday" 12% the next day...must have just been hype.

Learn your history while staying away from casinos.

Way to put your post "back in to context." Classic Conservative/Liberal tactic.

So, no- my family is juuuuusssst fine with their education.

January 21, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Yes, we are in a giant credit trap. Gold continues to rise because the value of the dollar continues to decline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq7Li1...

January 21, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The e mini S&P futures , which trade overnight closed this AM at 1263, after closing Friday at1325, down 62 handles, the Dow e mini closed at 11576, down from 12099 over 500 points, Nasdaq 100 from 1860 to 1775, down 85. you figure out the percentages. Wait until the market opens tomorrow, it will be sell first and ask questions later.
what YOU dont see is that this is no longer a "Correction", since all of the indexes have broke long term technical support levels, and when that happens the big boys dont buy because its cheap, but short with abandon or in Wall Street parlance, "sold to YOU".
Again, recession is generally defined as 2 or more consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth:
Earning start this week with the financials reporting, we have already seen what garbage Citi, Merrill, Lehman,Countrywide, Wamu et al have on their books. Thought Citi was a buy at $5 in Oct.? Well it must be a screaming buy at $24. Hope you are buying the heck out of it.Countrywide from $45 to under $%5, Wamu from $45 to$13, should I go on.
We do not yet know whether the economy continued to grow in Q4 of 2007 (I'm betting it did).
HAHA, I'll take that bet. cant wait until those Q3 forecasts get revised down and unless your head is stuck in the sand, (yours may be elsewhere) retailers did not exactly have a great holiday season (we called it Grinchmas). J6P (Joe consumer) is tapped out, taking the equity out of their homes to buy vacations, RV's, boats, luxury cars, designer crap, and now finds out that he is underwater since home values nationwide have declined, his teaser ARM is going up and cant sell his house . so now he is living on his credit card, which is going to be the next to blow up along with auto loans, and HELOC's.
Your boys in the White House got us to this point and they have absolutely no clue how to get us out of it. Bush, Bernanke and Paulson are looking like deer in the headlights. And thanks to them a lot of people in this country have been hurt. Thanks GOP.
Got your IRA statement yet, bore? that 20% down in 3 months not bothering you now?
PS. 10 year T bill is going to 3.2%. Thats DEPRESSION territory.
But hey what do I know, I wouldn't dream of telling the Omnipotent One that he/she/it is wrong, for all I know you have a PHD in Economics from Yale like helicopter Ben.
Naah, I dont think so
Gotta go, need to tear off another page on my GW Bush out of office calendar, see what brilliant thing he said , Dang 365 more days!

January 21, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Stomp
gold down $20 bucks today, silver down .60. dont expect it to continue its meteoric rise. with the advent of the gold and silver ETF's gld is used as a very liquid hedge, and as such when the markets drop like they have, profits from them are used to meet margin calls and can drop very violently.
can you believe sbore calling us nutjobs?
pot calling the kettle black?
LMFAO!

January 21, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

well said steamboatsconscience.

We tend to forget that the 1929 stock market crash was over several weeks and took a full 3 yrs to reach bottom.

"On Black Monday, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 38 points to 260, a drop of 12.8%. The deluge of selling overwhelmed the ticker tape system that normally gave investors the current prices of their shares. Telephone lines and telegraphs were clogged and were unable to cope. This information vacuum only led to more fear and panic. The technology of the New Era, much celebrated by investors previously, now served to deepen their suffering.

Black Tuesday was a day of chaos. Forced to liquidate their stocks because of margin calls, overextended investors flooded the exchange with sell orders. The glamour stocks of the age saw their values plummet. Across the two days, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 23%.

By the end of the week of November 11, the index stood at 228, a cumulative drop of 40 percent from the September high. The markets rallied in succeeding months but it would be a false recovery that led unsuspecting investors into the worst economic crisis of modern times.

Although it is popularly believed that the Crash inflicted heavy financial loss on investors during this period, the Great Depression which followed was far more terrible. While the Crash dealt a severe blow to many a stockholder's portfolio, the Great Depression brought obliteration and bankruptcy. Before it was over, the Dow Jones Industrial Average would lose 89% of its value before finally bottoming out in July 1932."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_ma...

Global stocks tanked today, dow futures down 520.

Tommorow could be a black Tuesday.

January 21, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Wait a minute! What happened to this quote:

"What you are hyping is, safe to say, a market correction (which happens quite regularly and is quite healthy):"

Now it's "possible" that it's coming; not a market correction and it's "natural" as climate change? Flip-flop much, Kerryvor? Or did you just cut & paste without actually reading again? Ohhhh, wait a minute: you are posting someone else's answer and not your answer. What a surprise.

January 21, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Most recessions have been in progress for months before we realize we are in one.

January 21, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Read this from a man who knows more about the market than any of us
Friday, January 18, 2008
Folding Friday
Yeah.Folding.
As in "The financial system is folding."
I know, I know, The Fed will save us.
Really?
How come they haven't already?
Perhaps it is because they can't? Because they really don't set interest rates, but rather follow the market? Because they know you can't "fix" someone who has borrowed too much by lending them even more money?

Today Jim Cramer and Larry Kudlow, on their respective shows, floated an even more outrageous proposal - to effectively steal at gunpoint several firms in the United States and fold their assets and liabilities into the public debt.
Yep.
The Monoline insurers, specifically - Ambac, MBI, etc.
Why?

If you remember at the end of the year in my "Year In Review" I talked about how, in fact, there is only so much "spread", or potential profit, in a particular debt issue, and that "spread" is determined simply by the risk of the issue.

To reduce it to simple terms, if you have a certain risk of not paying your loan back then that commands a higher interest rate than a "risk free" loan - that is, US Treasuries (loaning the Federal Government is generally thought of as being "without risk".)

The chimera (read: FRAUD) is that you can "lay off" this extra risk and not pay for all of it.

For the sake of argument let's say that the "risk difference" is 200 basis points over Treasuries on a given transaction for a given duration.

If you don't want the risk the only way you can lay it off is to give someone ELSE the entire 200 basis points! If they take the "liability" for less than 200 basis points then you have bamboozled them, and if they only reserved 100 basis points (for example) eventually they will go bankrupt because the true risk is twice as high!

It cannot be otherwise.

But if you do that, then why not just buy Treasuries? After all, why go through this entire exercise if indeed it doesn't make you any money?

The obvious answer? YOU WOULD NOT DO SO!

But these banks and other institutions did.

What we have here is a giant con game.

What has to happen here?

Simple: Those institutions that have managed to con others into taking risk for less than its actual price need to eat the consequences, and what better way to make them do so than to let the monolines all blow up!

Now there will be those who say that "we can't allow that".

To which I say "horsecrap!"

We not only CAN allow it, WE CAN'T PREVENT IT!

There ARE solvent banks in this nation - banks who made PRUDENT loans.

There ARE others who can step in the place of Citigroup, Lehman, Merrill and others.

Why don't Kudlow and Cramer suggest that these banks simply issue enough capital stock equal to their current outstanding, diluting all their existing stockholders by half, and use that cash?

January 21, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Preposterous? Like hell it is.

Let's look at a few of these banks and their market caps, all in billions.

Merrill Lynch: 44.40
Lehman: 28.32
Morgan Stanley: 47.65
Goldman Sachs: 82.19
Citibank: 121.79
Bank America: 159.65

Total: $484 billion dollars

Gee, we have a $150 billion problem according to Cramer and Kudlow? It would seem to me that the root cause of this problem, the securitization of loans by the above firms (and a few others not included) which were all performed on the basis of improperly laid-off risk, inured to the benefit of these firm's market cap! Therefore, if we are to TAKE capital at gunpoint to solve this problem we should take it from THOSE WHO STOLE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Why isn't this being proposed?
Because this isn't a $100 or $200 billion problem. Its much worse than that, and they know it.
.
And while they might try to "paper it over", if the government actually tries to step in the interest rate on the 10 year will go north of 10% - way north, perhaps as high as 20% - essentially immediately.

That will squick the Federal Government instantly - Bernanke and Paulson know this by the way, which is why it won't happen. Oh, and so do a good number of the members in The House and Senate. I'm sure they've been briefed and "get it" - although you'll never hear them admit that.

These realities are why you're hearing palliatives on the TV like sending everyone a $600 check.
THAT they can do.
Fix this? Can't. Those who are screwed will be cut adrift.
There is no other choice.
Got debt? You're in trouble -
Got cash? Real, unencumbered cash? You'll be doing quite well.
Hope you're in the second group, and not the first, because its too late to change where you are in this regard at this point

January 21, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

The only problem with gold being a liquid hedge, is if you get in trouble, and you go to liquidate your gold, but no one can afford to buy it because the currency values worldwide are so inflated the gold will continue to go up as currency values drop.

This is the problem with not having a gold or silver backed currency....

Once the currency tanks, you can't buy gold with it, and no one with the gold can sell it.

Kinda sounds like the bible, doesn't it.

January 21, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Here is a 1 year chart of the averages that you gave a 3 month of in your first post.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJ...
since August (5 months) we have had 3- 10% or more corrections . you can see the support line where we bounced off of 3 times. ask any market technician, there is no such thing as a triple top or bottom. see those lines there on the far right? thats called "The Gates OF Hell" we have broken major support levels and the trend is down. we are almost guaranteed a 5% gap down tomorrow and unless the bearded one rides to the rescue with a rate cut,which would only temporarily rally the markets (meaning just long enough so the big boys could get out unscathed) it could be lights out. would 30% down in 3 months still be just a market correction?
thats what all the brokers and talking heads were saying in 1999 and 2000,
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=QQQQ&...
while they said
sold to you.
so place your bets.
personally I dont want a crash, but I'll profit from it.
if it rallies here, i'll profit.
all this political posturing from both side is a bunch of crap. all it is doing is delaying the inevitable. we need a recession to wash out the financial stink, the markets need capitulation to get on with it, and the sooner the better.
got puts?

January 21, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

We've been playing against the market for the last year & have made profits from it. Hell- should have bought up Canadian Dollars just for fun over the last year- could have made a killing!

January 21, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

stomp
I'm not talking about physical gold, but the gold and silver exchange traded funds, symbols GLD, IAU and SLV
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=gld
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=iau
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=slv
they track physical PM's and are backed by physical as the ETF buys gold and silver. they trade like any other stock and you can be long or short them. these ETF's are part of the reason that gold has gone as high as it has because just like oil the money going into them is being fueled by speculators driving the price up. gold in itself is pretty useless except for jewelry and electronics but its perception as something valuable is thousands of years old and the belief that it will be valuable when currencies go down the tubes is probably false.
if we get to the point where we need gold as a currency, we will probably need lead more.

January 21, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

kiel
i wish I had bought euros when they first came out and were trading at about $.80 to our dollar and stuck them in the mattress!

January 21, 2008 at 4:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

sbore
Today's Ticker
Essentially all of Europe was down 5-7%. The futures traded overnight and until midday, and at the close (until 5:00 PM) the /ES S&P futures were down almost 60 handles, or 4.5%, with the Nasdaq 100 /NQ futures down 75 handles, or 4%.
The DOW, were it to open here, would be down about 500.
And if you're an "equity investor for the long term", all you can do today is sit and cry, because the equity markets are closed.
They won't be tomorrow, of course.

But before we get our crack at this, Asia, then Europe, get a go at Round #2. Will the collapse continue? Good question
Barring some sort of massive intervention (which cannot be ruled out) we will have a severe decline tomorrow at the open. It will be very tempting to "short the hole", but down this road lies great risk.
Always remember that until your paper profits are reduced to cash and in your hands, they're not yours! Also remember that attempting to catch the "last tick" of any move, in either direction, frequently leads to tears.

If you got any material part of this decline since the turn of the year and profited from it, you've outperformed virtually everyone.In a Bear Market, your benchmark to exceed is CASH.

January 21, 2008 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The not-amusing part of this, if you're stuck in a 401k or simply haven't heeded the warning signs and are long the market, is that there is nothing you can do at the present time.

Please remember - Bulls make money, Bears make money, but Pigs get slaughtered. And its very, very easy to be a pig in this environment and go "all in" short.
Resist the temptation.

If you have some "lotto tickets" at this point in time, you're likely looking at big winners tomorrow. Consider cashing out at least your cost basis in those positions, if you're inclined to let the rest run.

1220, my intermediate term target on the SPX, appears to be in play - perhaps as early as tomorrow. Due to the holiday this could actually happen without tripping the "lock limit" on the futures, as it will be over two trading days. We are within 45 points of that target now.Should we get to 1220, I am almost certain to take nearly everything off and bank the money.
Can we go lower than that? Absolutely. In fact, 1070, my "full bear" target, is in view. But expecting us to go there in a straight line is almost beyond comprehension.

We have, for all intents and purposes, crashed here and now. Assuming we were to open right now the market would have lost nearly 20% of its value in less than three weeks' time. By any definition you care to use, that's a crash.

The margin calls will be flying fast and furious tomorrow, which is likely to create interesting dislocations. Those of you who like metals may be in for a truly ugly surprise.

Yes, there will be rallies. As I noted in the technical Friday night, I put some "lotto" style plays back on into the close because I was greatly disturbed by what I was seeing in the market internals, and it appeared that we were heading for Niagra.

The River DeNile flows there, you know.

Goldilocks?

She's what's for dinner.

I'm just trying to show whats lurking out there outside the confines of our idyllic (with tongue firmly planted in cheek) valley

January 21, 2008 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

SC- Taking any bets on the the Dow tomorrow? Based on what you saw for the Futures, I'll say closing bell the Dow is down below 12,000. I'm betting close to 11,950.

January 21, 2008 at 5:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

sbore
one more thing. you are quoting data that is at least 6 months old. the Dow has dropped 3000 points in 3 months, the financial market has collapsed, making those statistics moot.

January 21, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

kiel
that would be about right.
looking for a possible stick save from the fed. should know by 10 MST. if they dont it could be look out below.
also depends on asia and europe.
the market is ruled by fear and greed.
greed got us to this point.
fear rules for now.

January 21, 2008 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Moot?? No way! Old links never die; they just make it to Bore's posts to become "fragrant."

January 21, 2008 at 5:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Histronics??? LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Who get there panties in a bunch when 90% of the world is out to get them with taxes, affordable housing, global warming and now, even Tom Brady?? I'm just ringing the Pavlov bell.

Everyone sing along:

"Who's the leader of No Land
who freaks out you and me?
s-v-b, o-r-e, a-nah-ny-mous-ly."

my apologies to Mouseketeers.

January 21, 2008 at 7:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Now you're helping me insult you? Classic! Conservative, that is! LMAO!

January 21, 2008 at 7:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

hey sbore
heres one even you can enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etfVMt...

January 21, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Before 9/11 happened, we were headed towards depression.

Then we went to war. We needed more money.

So the Fed introduced all the new bills, remember?

But the old bills were still out there, circulating.

So the economy looked good. There was a combination of old money, and all the new money.

But, the Fed began to remove the old bills. So suddenly, the amount of currency is reduced.

This doesn't hurt those with tons of cash.

It hurts those who make it paycheck to paycheck.

It hurts those who have a 2nd or 3rd mortgage, the fancy cars and the boat and RV, and just barely making their payments.

Suburbia.

When suburbia collapses, they flood the job market...

Then the tsunami begins. We are at that beginning,

IMO.

Watch the panic today. Black Tuesday?

January 22, 2008 at 4:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Correction: Before 9/11, we were headed toward recession.

January 22, 2008 at 4:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

shortbus (anonymous) says...

What did we expect? How can one of the core commodities of our marketplace more than double (2.14 times pre-Bush) and not have a dramatic effect on our economy. I am sorry, but I remember pre-Bush gas prices of less than $1.30 a gallon. With prices hovering around $3.00 it undoubtedly will have to have a dramatic effect on our economy. Any Macroeconomist would tell you that. The price of oil is core element to our economy. Nearly everything along the supply chain utilizes this commodity either through its manufacturing process or transportation.

In a macroeconomic sense I would argue that the impact of the high energy prices have just started to be felt. Producers are willing to absorb some distribution costs on a very short term basis to handle market fluctuations. However, as it is becoming very apparent that high energy prices are here to stay producers are now passing the doubling this cost of manufacturing on to the consumer (a consumer that has not seen the doubling of wages).

Couple that with the housing market collapse (no offense to my friends that are mortgage brokers, but you had no business making those loans in the first place) and it would be very hard to argue that the artifical propping up of our economy has taken its toll.

Let's not forget the 30 years of accumulation by the baby boomer generation that will start slowing as a part of the natural cycle of life.

sbore, you go ahead and live in your false reality that we are not heading into a recession, but is very naive ... look at the major markets since second quarter of 07.

As a side note, I find it quite interesting that crude prices have fallen from $100 a barrel at the first of the year to now sitting at $88.21 and falling.

January 22, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

shortbus (anonymous) says...

I never claimed the world was coming to an end. sbore. I am so glad that you think that the world is rosy pink. You and your rose coloured glases... but what is to be expected from you.

I do not blame our current predicament of high fuel prices on environmental wackos (though I agree with you that they are out there and more active than ever). I also do not see a shortage of supply (despite news headlines claiming that other countries like India and China are gobbling them up). I do disagree that we should be using our enourmous resources. After all, if we can force other countries to use up all of their resources and keep ours for a future date when we really do have a shortage I am all for it.

I do blame oil companies that have had record breaking profits since the "oil shortage" began. (Since you love to Google so much, find that one; or better yet look at the WSJ; every time one of them reports earnings it exceeds the prior quarter and not just be a little).

I guess I do not see the connection of 50 months of job growth as a correlation as to why we are not heading into a recession... you can have full employment and a recession since the definition relies on negative real economic growth not how many jobs are being created at the same pay they were (or in many industries/sectors less) eight years ago. Only one indicator of a recession is unemployment.

Don't get me wrong, I have personally benefited from the policies of the current administration (I voted to keep it in power... twice) but I do think that the true effect of his policies are just now being felt. It is too late in the game to blame it on 9/11 or the dot-com bubble. IMHO the current President will leave office as a disappointment.

What will the administration's excuse be now... the housing bubble? How about this, let's blame it on Iran (that seems to be the excuse of the week)?

January 22, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

The Pres should be speaking momentarily. I think it was scheduled for 2:35p Eastern. We'll see what the market does after that before it closes.

Otherwise, Bore, looks like the Dow is right about where I said it would be: hovering around the 11950. Still, 2 hours-ish left for trading.

January 22, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

dogd (anonymous) says...

Morty:

Don't argue with any of those hysterical helmet toting liberals like closet-joe.

January 22, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

dogd- Are you kidding? With the Writer's strike, this stuff is better than most of my favorite TV shows! I'm sending some of this stuff to Stephen Colbert! LOL!

And, even my prediction for the Dow was almost right on: closed 11970.19.

Lost a little in certain areas, but like steamboatconscience said, "got PUTS?" That held our account up nicely!

January 22, 2008 at 6:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

seabirth (anonymous) says...

people are also forgetting another major reason oil prices have gone up so much.... the drastic decline of the dollar.

if the dollar had remained constant, the price per barrel would be far less.

as for the fiscal stimulus plan.... sounds like a great plan for the chinese. finance the money from foreign bond holders (chinese) and then give it to the consumer who buys cheap chinese goods.

January 22, 2008 at 7:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

I think we are headed toward depression.

With the internet, anyone can trade stocks on a daily basis.

I tried it for a bit, but decided to stick with what I'm good at.

Electricity.

Anyway,

What I see happening, and I mean no offense to anyone here,

but I think alot of the money being used in the stock market, is money that people thought they had in the equity of their homes.

We all talk about how we can hedge losses with put options and derivatives, but if those original stock purchases and put options are purchase from already financed income,

and the stock market starts to crash, like it will today, people will lose money in the markets, and not be able to meet their loan payments.

Bank Of America is already showing this happening.

This is just my opinion, but I would sell all stock ASAP and keep your cash on hand, don't put it in the bank.

If you look back at the 1929 crash, if you had money in the bank, you were screwed.

And I've seen this happening in third world countries lately.

People having trouble getting money out of their banks.

Yes, the sky is falling.

January 23, 2008 at 3:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

For your dictionary- TODAY was a correction...from yesterday. That's why us smart investors rode thru it!

And the irony of the music thread...I think it was lost on you! It was an ode to your flip-flopping nature on censorship...or do you need me to put it "in context" once again? LOL!!

January 23, 2008 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

hey bore
5 words
Government intervention
rumors
short covering

January 23, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Ha Ha.

Keep investing

Don't say I didn't warn you.

January 24, 2008 at 4:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

sbvor, I need to know

Are you a mason?

When I started the illuminati thread, you were highly critical,

but you seem to have to points of view against the NWO

Which is it?

January 24, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

hey bore
just proves you are falling for the BS
What we got is a bull rally in a bear market. plus a very scared government meddling with interest rates
Our government never ceases to amaze me.
They of course announce a "bipartisan stimulus package" to supposedly "help" our economy.
The bond market no likey, to put it bluntly.
The TNX, 10 year Treasury Rates, spiked hard - by more than 20 basis points, to 3.64%.
That's a six and a quarter percent change on the day!
Oh, and before someone says "oh it was rotation out into equities", no it wasn't.
It was the bond market telling our government to quick jacking around with bull**** "handouts" and tampering with sound mortgage lending practices!

Specifically, what the market didn't like was the prospect of bypassing OFHEO and indexing Freddie and Fannie to "average" home prices for the rest of the year.
We also found out that a supposed "rogue trader" caused a multi-billion-dollar loss for a French Bank, which they had to unwind last week and into Monday.
Then this afternoon The Fed claimed this had nothing to do with their deliberations, and further, that they didn't know about it before their teleconference?
One word: HORSEPOOP.
Let's talk about what probably really happened at The Fed.
* Ben and Buds saw a precipitous drop in commercial credit demand last week. They were faced with either draining huge amounts of liquidity or dropping the FFT.
* Instead of allowing the market to sort out what was going on or doing the right thing and telling the banks - both in the US and overseas - to fess up to what was going on "or else", they PANICKED, and held an emergency meeting via teleconference, "agreeing" that the solution was an emergency rate action. This decision was allegedly made (according to Steve Lies-man) Monday night.
* NOW we find out that the "collapse" in credit demand (and flight to Treasury debt) was actually caused by this "rogue trader" who spasm'd the equity markets worldwide. Or was it? Was that a rogue trader or was it really an institutional attempt - with authorization - on their part to bail themselves out of a bad position or three? Hmmm... who knows.... but the CAUSE of the panic is now clear.
* And NOW the crack addled equity market is demanding another 50 bips in rate cut next week!
Now this wouldn't be so bad except that Bennie had to inject a load of liquidity to maintain the target today. In fact, the slosh took a fairly sizable rocket shot northward.
The bond market, being experts at sniffing out bull, saw all of the above and, having behaved itself up until this point along with a slowing economy, reversed hard, rocketing the cost of money for government debt upwards by six percent in one day!
Oh, and if you look at the short term (13 week) Bill market (the IRX) it rocketed higher by NINE PERCENT!
But but but you sputter, I thought Bennie's move was going to make mortgages and other loans more affordable?
Well let's see.

January 24, 2008 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

On 1/18 the 10 year closed at 3.648%.
Today, the 10 year closed at 3.640%.Rate cut? Lower interest rates for mortgages and other debt?
Where?
Bennie cut the FFT by 75 bips and the Treasury Market gave him the finger, taking it ALL back in less than 24 hours!
You had about three hours yesterday to capture that lower mortgage rate.
If you didn't lock yesterday, tough crap - you missed it.
And if The Fed - and Congress - doesn't listen to the Bond Market and stop this stupidity government debt costs will continue to skyrocket and drag private debt costs higher, instead of the other way around, and will ultimately force the government to contract itself due to an inability to meet its interest obligations.
You only think The Fed controls interest rates.
It doesn't, and this is what the debt markets do when they get pissed off at government stupidity.
You want to know what I think homeowners who are upside down ought to do after being RAMMED by the politicians today and Ben Bernanke on Tuesday?
After seeing Ben Bernanke AND our government DRIVE UP, RATHER THAN DOWN, DEBT COSTS, DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY SCREWING MORE AND MORE PEOPLE?
They should walk away. Send in the keys. Yes, your credit will be trashed for 7 years. So what?
Tell the bank to get screwed.
Today we had reported the first ANNUAL decline in home prices since the statistics began in the 1960s, and in all probability, since The Depression!
THIS IS NOT OVER.
House prices will continue to decline for the next TWO TO THREE YEARS, and if you're underwater NOW, you're going to be MORE UNDERWATER in a couple more years.
YOU WILL BE A DEBT SLAVE UNLESS YOU ACT TO STOP IT!
CUT YOUR LOSSES! Screw it. Check with an attorney to see if you can have other assets attached (in MANY states the answer is "no" on a purchase money first) and tell the people who have screwed you - and us - to take a hike.
You can either default the debt NOW, or LATER, after throwing even more money down the rathole. But either way, as the economy contracts and your job comes under stress, if you're upside down you're screwed. Better to take the pain RIGHT NOW and cut off a finger rather than losing an entire LEG in a year or two!

January 24, 2008 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Even Cramer recommended doing this ON NATIONAL TELEVISION a couple of months ago!
Oh, and guess what - the mainstream press is even talking about it! Read all about it right here!
LISTEN UP FOLKS: YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TAKE ANY LEGAL ACTION YOU WISH. Analyze this as a pure BUSINESS DECISION, talk to an attorney, and then ACT.
SAVE YOURSELF.

As this deflation of the monetary base gains steam if you do not act you will have thrown away valuable money you could have otherwise held on to. Go rent a place first - so you pass the credit check and dig yourself out of your personal housing hell!
Beware equity investors.
The short bus is busting at the seams.
Buy this rally? Oh hell no.
It won't take long before reality sets in.
This is a time to sit on your hands and patiently wait for the opportunity to throw darts at the quote page of the Wall Street Journal, then short whatever you hit.

That day is coming, and soon.

January 24, 2008 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

pt
you are correct, the market is presenting a buying opportunity, but I guarantee this is not the bottom.
I have been trading the long side but only short term. if you are long term you will probably be ok but not without some more pain
As for Cramer, I watch him for amusement, he is about 50 50 on his picks, is usually behind the curve when there is a downturn (perma bull way too long, hurting his viewers), and is lousy at picking bottoms. hows his charitable trust doing anyway?

January 25, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

bore
tell me that the government has never lied to you.
starting with stuttering Hank saying last summer
Subprime mortgage problems are confined and will have no impact on the rest of the economy.
Lie.
Sounds like its you Pubes who are running scared with emergency rate cuts and hastily crafted "stimulus" packages , all designed to make the J6P (consumer) believe that all is well .
Lie.
If all is well, how come they are already selling this rally? even I thought it would last until the Fed decision on Wed. oh well.
hows that Microsoft rally going?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=msft
Here's one for you. kinda dark in there, dont ya think?
http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker...

January 25, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

bore
guess its really dark in there http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker...
at least I come up with something different every day while all you can do is repeat the same old bs day after day
believe me you are the last person that I would try to convince that you are wrong, egomaniacs listen to no one but their own reflection.
your sophomoric grasp of the economy and the market is amusing. as someone who questions everyone and everything around here, and berates the media constantly (except the far right wing media of course) you are telling me that you believe everything the government tells you? my guess is when the Dems win the White House and both Houses this year than everything they tell you will be a lie, right?
done with you.

January 25, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/61661...

January 25, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

wasnt talking to you

January 25, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

pt
yup
possibility 3, SG was going to write down a big loss and decided to try doing it this way letting a low level schlub take the fall and take care of him after he spends a couple of years in jail.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
http://www.rickrichards.com/

January 25, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

bore, bore, bore
http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker...
your glasses need cleaning

January 25, 2008 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

here ya go bore
http://www.photos.klr650.net/displayi...

January 25, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

"C" is for CONgress....
... and for an a-b-c corrective movement on the stock indices.
On the CONgressional point, go to the petition page at http://financialpetition.org/ and sign again please. Yes, this is different. It is a plea for the CONgress to quit dorking around and actually force all the bad debts in the banking system out where we (the people) can see 'em.
Why?
Because if we don't, we're going to be facing a catastrophe.
We're in a recession now folks.
NBER will call it a year from now. I'm calling it right now.
Why?Profits. Period. Hello!
That, and ramping debt defaults.
The market is starting to "get it", which is why we had a huge selloff. This is not done and those who listen to Cramer and Kudlow, trying to "bottom fish" here, are going to be looking at blackened - as in "burnt up", not "made lots of money" - 401k and IRA statements in the coming months.
Recessions are not to be feared. They are in fact good things, in that they clean out the bad businesses and cause them to go under, which is exactly what needs to happen from time to time. This is true despite the wishes of some that we would never have a recession - an impossible and outrageous expectation, but there you have it.
Government, of course, can make it worse. A lot worse. And left alone that is exactly what they will do by trying to buy votes with promises of "bread and circuses", all of which, by the way are empty promises. Why?
First, the $1,000 or so they're claiming will be distributed will do nothing, for it will not hit anyone's bank for months and when it does, people will likely pay down debt rather than spend it - which means "no stimulus effect."
Second, the changes that Democrats want to make to Fannie and Freddie limits are unsafe (so says OFHEO, the regulator of these organizations) and could very easily cause the cost of mortgage money in the "conforming space" to ramp precipitously - especially if these GSEs start to run into trouble in the marketplace (and they're likely to.)
Further, we are right now seeing credit contraction. That's deflation folks. Its even starting to show up on "mainstream" media sites - for example:

January 26, 2008 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

"Other credit available to consumers has been shrinking sharply, according to an analysis by Ms. Zentner. The pool of unused credit - predominantly home equity lines of borrowing, bank loans and credit cards - was still growing at nearly 15 percent annually as recently as the fall of 2006. Now, with debt mounting, home prices falling and job growth slowing, that pool is diminishing at an 8 percent annual rate."

Ding ding ding ding ding.

Folks, credit is money and money is credit. Yes, I know they're different. But they are what is called "fungible" in the world of finance - that is, interchangeable for purposes of trade.

Credit is, in fact, virtually all of the monetary supply! Very little is actual money.

Oh, that "throw darts at the WSJ's Stock Page to pick shorts" moment? It may be approaching - see this:

"The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is updating rules for how mutual funds value holdings after they struggled to price mortgage-backed investments during the subprime-lending crisis.

Regulators are reacting to an explosion in derivatives and mortgage-backed bonds that don't always trade on exchanges, said Douglas Scheidt, an associate director in the SEC's investment management division. The guidelines, to be proposed this quarter, will set out steps to value assets when trading prices aren't available, he said."

That could easily do it all on its own.....

January 26, 2008 at 8:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

AP
New Home Sales Fall by Record Amount
Monday January 28, 10:30 am ET
By Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer
New Home Sales Dropped in 2007 by a Record Amount; Prices Posted Weakest Showing in 16 Years

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sales of new homes plunged by a record amount in 2007 while prices posted the weakest showing in 16 years, demonstrating the troubles builders are facing with a huge backlog of unsold homes.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080128/econom...

January 28, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Corporate Earnings On Track For Worst Drop Since 2001Last update: 1/28/2008 9:49:18 AM

By Laura Mandaro
What was expected to be a stormy season for U.S. corporate earnings has turned into a blizzard, at least as far as financials are concerned. Fourth-quarter earnings for companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 are on track to fall 20.5% from the same quarter last year, the most severe drop since the fourth quarter of 2001. By contrast, analysts were expecting a 9.8% drop in profits heading into this month's round of earnings reports, according to Thomson Financial. There are still about 340 companies in the S&P that have yet to report, and analysts said the overall picture could improve as a broader range of companies, particularly technology firms, announce their earnings. But with financials, materials firms and consumer discretionary companies all set to report profit declines for the period, actual earnings growth for the quarter seems out of reach. The main culprits for the results storm are the banks and the multibillion-dollar, debt-related losses they reported. Things were so bad among the nation's financial institutions that they managed to lose more money than the already gloomy analysts expected. Headlined by nearly $10 billion each in losses at Merrill Lynch & Co. (MER) and Citigroup Inc. (C), reported and expected fourth-quarter earnings at financial institutions are on track to fall by the equivalent of more than 100% of their year-ago results - a far deeper tumble than the 67% slide that analysts were anticipating earlier this month. As expected, banks took huge write-downs on subprime debt and derivatives. Those with big consumer operations, such as Citigroup and Bank of America Corp. (BAC), jacked up loan-loss reserves to cushion against accelerating delinquencies on credit card, car and other consumer loans. "Clearly the big story on earnings has been in financials," said Rod Smyth, chief investment strategist for Wachovia Securities. However, he anticipates nonfinancial companies will also struggle to meet earnings expectations. "There are more disappointments to come outside financials as the reality of a slower global economy plays out," he said. The grim news from financial institution earnings has stoked fears that the U.S. is headed toward, or is already in, a recession sparked by the housing slump, tight credit and high gasoline prices. This past Tuesday, in an effort to prevent a deep recession, the Federal Reserve engineered a surprise 75-basis-point cut in its benchmark overnight lending rate. The U.S. central bank cited a "weakening of the economic outlook," deterioration in financial markets and tighter credit for businesses and households.

January 28, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

what part of minus signs across the WORLD dont you understand?
Global Stock Indexes at 15:15 EST/2015 GMTLast update: 1/28/2008 3:15:13 PM

Latest Change %Change %12/31
New York DJ Indus 12261.80 +54.63 +0.45 -7.56 Intraday
Nasdaq 2328.00 +1.80 +0.08 -12.23 Intraday
NYSE Comp 8888.05 +60.55 +0.69 -8.75 Intraday
S&P 500 1339.97 +9.36 +0.70 -8.74 Intraday
Russell 2000 695.33 +6.73 +0.98 -9.23 Intraday
DJ Wilshire 5 13521.68 +98.18 +0.73 -8.76 Intraday
Toronto S&P/TSX 12890.43 -4.40 -0.03 -6.81 Intraday
London FTSE 100 5788.90 -80.10 -1.36 -10.35 Close
FTSE 250 9640.50 -98.00 -1.01 -9.55 Close
Frankfurt Xetra DAX 6818.85 +2.11 +0.03 -15.48 Close
Paris CAC40 4848.30 -29.82 -0.61 -13.64 Close
Tokyo Nikkei Stock 13087.91 -541.25 -3.97 -14.50 Close
Nikkei 300 263.21 -11.11 -4.05 -12.58 Close
Hong Kong Hang Seng 24053.61 -1068.76 -4.25 -13.52 Close
Sydney S&P/ASX 200 5860.30 +279.90 +5.02 -7.56 Jan 25
All Ord 5886.30 +280.50 +5.00 -8.33 Jan 25

DJ Europe STOXX 600 318.70 -3.53 -1.10 -12.60 Close
STOXX 50 3212.47 -33.54 -1.03 -12.79 Close
EuroSTOXX50 3765.41 -11.65 -0.31 -14.42 Close
Amsterdam AEX 439.32 +0.63 +0.14 -14.82 Close
Athens ASE 4442.34 -74.47 -1.65 -14.22 Close
Brussels BEL-20 3663.79 +30.15 +0.83 -11.23 Close
Copenhagen KFX 399.50 -5.50 -1.36 -13.93 Close
Dublin ISEQ 6641.64 -119.07 -1.76 -4.22 Close
Helsinki HEX 10306.29 -263.74 -2.50 -11.14 Close
Istanbul IMKB-100 43706.68 -1790.56 -3.94 -21.30 Close
Jo-burg All Share 25692.87 -809.36 -3.05 -11.28 Close
Lisbon PSI General 3481.00 -8.44 -0.24 -15.59 Close
Madrid IBEX 35 13026.70 -114.40 -0.87 -14.20 Close
Milan S&P/MIB 34234.00 +37.00 +0.11 -11.21 Close
Mibtel 25858.00 -40.00 -0.15 -12.05 Close
Oslo All-Share 463.26 -12.11 -2.55 -18.72 Close
Prague PX 1487.40 -49.30 -3.21 -18.05 Close
Russia RTS 1978.68 -54.41 -2.68 -13.61 Close
Vienna ATX 3781.94 -119.56 -3.06 -16.20 Close
Zurich Swiss Mkt 7581.73 -105.15 -1.37 -10.64 Close

January 28, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

and the Pubes are easier to spot ,they got their heads in the dirt
http://www.photos.klr650.net/displayi...

January 28, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

LOL! Again- time to use the Bore's BEA link to dispute the statement. The funny part? SBC's post is points to all the stats that caused Bore to say, "YOU LOSE:"

First paragraph:

"Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property
located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 0.6 percent in the fourth quarter of 2007,
according to advance estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis." Just no actual analysis on this site since it's a Gov site. That's left up to...Bum, bum BUMMMM: Economic Writers.

Once again, the Bore proves that you don't have to read the link in order to provide them. Nothing in any link disputes what SBC quoted; just a fear of someone countering the Bore's propaganda. So much for "educated." Intoxicated...maybe. Medicated? Oooohhhhh, we've known that one for a while!

January 30, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

new business model
http://www.youwalkaway.com/index.html

January 29, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Economy Nearly Stalled in 4th Quarter
Wednesday January 30, 11:00 am ET
By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
Economy Nearly Stalled in 4th Quarter; Suffers Worst Year Since 2002
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The economy nearly stalled in the fourth quarter with a growth rate of just 0.6 percent, capping its worst year since 2002.
The Commerce Department's report on the gross domestic product, released Wednesday, showed an economy that had deteriorated considerably during the October-to-December quarter as worsening problems in the housing market and harder-to-get credit made individuals and businesses more cautious in their spending. Fears of a recession have grown, even as inflation remained elevated.
For all of 2007, the economy grew by just 2.2 percent, the weakest performance in five years, when the country was struggling to recover from the 2001 recession. The housing collapse dealt the economy its biggest blow last year. Builders slashed spending on housing projects by 16.9 percent on an annualized basis, the most in 25 years. The report came as the Democratic-run Congress and the Bush administration continue to work on a program of tax rebates and business incentives aimed at stimulating the economy.
"We are not happy with 0.6 percent GDP growth," Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We now need the full Congress to move forward as soon as possible because consumers -- the American people -- are waiting for that check and that is going to help them."
Said economist Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics: "The economy has been subject to something of the perfect storm here. It has been hit by the housing slump the credit squeeze, the subprime slime and stock price declines on Wall Street. The economy is weathering some pretty stormy seas but it is weak.
The fourth-quarter's performance was much weaker -- half the pace -- than economists were expecting. They were forecasting growth to clock in a 1.2 percent pace.
The 0.6 percent annualized increase in gross domestic product (GDP) marked a big loss of momentum from the third quarter's brisk, 4.9 percent showing. The fourth-quarter pace was the slowest since the first quarter of last year.
The GDP figures come as worries mount that the country is on the verge of a recession or perhaps is already sliding into one.
To help bolster the economy, the Federal Reserve was poised Wednesday to again cut interest rates. An afternoon announcement was expected.
REMEMBER Christmas is included in these #'s. OR should I say Grinchmas.
But dont worry, the .gov will ride to the rescue with rate cuts (can you say INFLATION?) and BS "Rescue" packages.
sorry bore, you are living in the past, actually even you could learn something about economics from me.
as the great Thomas Dewar once said
"Minds are like parachutes, they only function when open."

January 30, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

kiel
as the great Thomas Dewar once said
"Minds are like parachutes, they only function when open.""
maybe bore could use some of Tommy's medicine, eh?

January 30, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

SBC- No, I think the Bore has been nipping too much Dewar's recently: Bore's own brand of Fool-Aid from people who have more guts to put name to their own thoughts instead of just Googling and cutting & pasting. Most 5yr olds can do that. So much for who is proving child-like.

Bore- PROVE what sbc quoted was a lie. You can't since it quoted FACTS that YOUR LINK provided and was expanded in an OP-ED piece. Again- fear of propaganda that disputes your own propaganda.

You truly don't read anything you post any longer. In fact, you just cut and paste most of the above post...yet again, proving you only Wash, Rinse & Repeat.

January 30, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Actually, the Bore could use some of Edison's Medicine: a light bulb to illuminate while reading green, dinosaur CRT for the Apple IIe.

January 30, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Readers: now ask yourself what does that post say that disputes what SBC posted and what the "lies" are. In fact, the Bore's "January 30, 2008 at 9:22 a.m." post is mostly the same links, same crap posted at least 4 other times in the last 2 days on this very thread.

Remember: Repetition makes it correct! Bush even does this with each speech: "Al Qaeda is on the run in Iraq." Must be the Iraqi equivalent to the Boston Marathon. Each State of the Union we hear that Al Qaeda is on the run. Running....where? To the other side of Iraq to stick out their tongues at us while we play "Wherdidego? Wherdidego?"

January 30, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

good job Bernanke
watch the value of our money go down the tubes
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_...

January 30, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

same chart over just the last 2 years.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_...

January 30, 2008 at 12:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

SBC- Waaaaiiiitttt a minute: NYBOT has three letters in that Acronym that are also used for the New York Times (N-Y-T...or O-Y-T for the Bore), so it must be a Liberal website. Therefore, it's null and void from being accurate.

LOL!

***boy, Al Qaeda must be the new Jim Fixx, being out there running all these years. Maybe Al will just drop over from a heart attack, too, and we can declare "Victory!"***

January 30, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

kiel
what about FOX? 3 letters? Fascist right wingers?
that $ chart is scary thats real buying power evaporating
a .5% rate cut, why is the 10 year up?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5Etnx
the rally is already bleeding off, it wont hold

January 30, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

No, no: FOX stands for Fooling Others Xceedingly. Or, it was the past President of Mexico.

Ooohhhh, I love watching Hannity do his little petulant "No it's not. No it's not." over and over again when someone presents contradictory info to what he says.

January 30, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Wow! Another cut and paste! How...new.

If there is nothing to support us dwindling into a possible recession, why are they discussing a stimulus package? A market correction wouldn't cause that. Normally, it's a simple interest rate adjustment to spark it back to life.

No, giving back that much money means the Pres is worried, and he's your "Lincoln," remember? He must do what's unpopular, but necessary, right?

So: the whole thing is, the EXPERIENCE is telling you your LINKS are what LOSE!

Gee. What cut & pasty response should we expect this time? Remember: repetition is key in propaganda.

"prop*a*gan*da (prÅp'É-gÄn'dÉ) Pronunciation Key
n.
The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause."

Pretty systematic to repeat stuff over and over, huh?

January 30, 2008 at 1:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

today's news
negative employment #'s
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080201/econom...
hows your HELOC doing?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi...
is the boat safe from decline?
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/...

February 1, 2008 at 4:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Hope Now or Hope Never?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...

February 1, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

on a lighter note
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-...

February 1, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Wow, good stuff steamboatsconscience.

It's obvious there is a deliberate economic attack

on our financial system.

I wonder if the stock market knows this, and the

recent slight recovery is 'puts' being purchased.

Could the market falsely rebound on bets against the

market?

Then, suddenly, 'they' pull the rug out.

Exactly like the great depression.

Good grief, we are in trouble.

February 4, 2008 at 5:26 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

ARE THE BANKS OUT OF RESERVES?
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not at all certain I understand what I'm looking at here correctly.
I've been fighting with this all weekend, and don't wish to alarm.
But perhaps "alarmed" is exactly what we should be right now.
Reference? Right here http://www.federalreserve.gov/release...
Specifically:

Date total(2) non- required excess Monetary credit, total primary secondary seasonal
borrowed(3) NSA(4) base(5) NSA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30p 41639 -8751 40179 1460 821298 50000 390 385 0 5
What are you looking at here?
This is the last line of the Fed's "Statistical Release" from January 31st. All figures are in millions. The link to their page is above.
The "Total" is the total amount of reserves in the Fed System (among all member banks), and is approximately $41.5 billion. The required reserves, based on the amount on deposit, is $40.2 billion (roughly.)
So far so good.
But notice that "non-borrowed" number - the negative 8751?
What does that mean?
Well, after much study and trying to get the numbers to all add up, the light went on.
Let's add up a few things for everyone.
The TAF credit, which is the amount that Fed Banks have borrowed in total through the TAF facility through January 30th, is 50 billion. We also have other primary and seasonal borrowings, which are quite small (and normal) of $385 and $5 million, respectively.
Now let's get out our trusty calculator and add things up.
50000 + 390 (385 + 5) - 8751 = $41,639.
The books balance. But do you notice anything about this bookkeeping? Literally all of the banks' reserves, on balance, are in fact Fed Credit from the Federal Reserve!
WHERE IS YOUR MONEY THAT YOU DEPOSITED?

February 3, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Now normally only 10% (or is it 5% now - it sure looks like it, when you look at the monetary base!) of what you deposit is "held back" in reserve. This is, in fact, the very foundation of a fractional reserve banking system, and whether you agree or disagree with that as a foundation, it is what it is and it is what it has been since The Federal Reserve was set up.
But unless I'm reading this table incorrectly, there not only is no reserve of depositors money currently being held the banks are in aggregate nine billion in the hole with respect to what is supposed to be held - having replaced all of it, and then some, with the TAF Auction Credit!
So this leads one to an obvious - and disturbing - question:
Where did the reserve that was supposed to be held back from our deposited funds go, and where is it now? Oh, and why has the deterioration been so dramatic - going from basically all of your reserves being depositor money two months ago to now being less than "none"?
The follow-up to that question, by the way, is even more serious:
Exactly how far can "non-borrowed" reserves go into the hole and how, and when, will they no longer BE in the hole? Are fire-sale style asset sales in the offing - in the very near future - in order to rectify this little problem?
I don't have either answer, but I'd sure like to know what those answers are.

February 3, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

addendum to the above
if you go to the historical data page which goes back to 1959
http://www.federalreserve.gov/release...
No similar event appears to exist within the range of online records, which go back to 1959. (Weekly data available through 1975.)
also for those who may not know the TAF is the Temporary Auction Facility; established by the Federal Reserve for the banks to 'auction' their MBS, CDOs,etc.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetar...
can we be sure that the FDIC is solvent? and our $100,000 per account is safe?

February 3, 2008 at 11:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

How much you wanna bet the non-borrowed amount is held in electronic "eurodollars"

http://www.globalfinancialdata.com/ar...

Iraq and the hidden eurodollar wars
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles...

"CME Eurodollar futures prices are determined by the market's forecast for the delivery month of the 3-month LIBOR interest rate"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurodollar

Tax havens, use and misuse. Isle of Man, Queen of England, and control of the Eurodollar offshore accounts.
http://books.google.com/books?id=RDiA...

February 4, 2008 at 5:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

shouldnt you be standing outside the Post Office right now handing out your propaganda and railing against the Dems and engaging in fisticuffs with Ken?

February 5, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

commercial real estate in tank, bank failures possible, Comptroller of Currency
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/db2badd6-d0...
Nice job Bush, $410 Billion deficit
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080204/bush_b...

stomp
still trying to figure it out, not a conspiracy (come on) , but most likely the .gov's attempt to bail out the banks with the TAF auctions, but Europe is definitely in trouble
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main...

Well I'll keep looking, just waiting for bore to tell me "IF the media would just shut up it would get better" or "If I ignore it , it will go away.
Nero fiddled while Rome burned too.

February 4, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Weak Service-Sector Report Stirs Concerns About Economy's Health
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080205/wall_s...

February 5, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

thought you dont read what i post anymore

February 5, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

all I am doing is posting the latest data released by the government, all of which are pointing to a recession. its not hysteria, its called being ahead of the curve rather than denying that it is a real possibility.
when the financial sector leads the way down as it is now, we are in for a rough ride, and the American public will be the biggest losers.
if I said the sky is blue, you would say no, it is ABSOLUTELY yellow or green or red, just to be argumentative. you do it with everyone.
no problem, I'm not here to convince you of anything, you have convinced yourself.

February 5, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Dinobore says:

"I don't have to.

It's always the same daily media hysteria tune sung in a different key."

Pot? Meet Kettle.

February 5, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Subslime, one of the US's biggest export product
The Royal Bank of Scotland is scrambling to reassure investors that it has a robust capital base in the face of increasing speculation that it needs to plug an estimated £12.5bn gap in its finances.
The Edinburgh-based bank is facing tough questions from City analysts and investors about whether it needs to conduct a rights issue or sell off assets to raise funds. There are also concerns that it might need to write off more losses from its exposure to financial instruments linked to the sub-prime mortgage crisis.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/20...

February 5, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

guess we know who's bore's hero
just cant figure out which one is more egotistical
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dail...

February 5, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Oil Drops Below $88 on Recession Fears
Oil futures fell sharply Tuesday, dropping below $88 after financial markets were surprised by data that indicated the traditionally strong service sector shrank dramatically last month, raising the prospect that demand for energy will weaken along with the economy. Expectations that crude supplies are climbing also took prices lower.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080205/oil_pr...

February 5, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

tell you what. if the economy is in such good shape show me some good CURRENT news that would that would prove it. and not your old tired retread links. something NEW

February 5, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

............and the beat goes on.............

February 5, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

424now (anonymous) says...

Its like an investing class in here!

February 5, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

-Quote-

A small group of scientists, including some psychologists, say they are starting to discover what many Wall Street professionals have long suspected - that people are hard-wired for money. The human brain, these researchers say, responds to high-stakes trading just as it does to the lure of sex. And the riskier the trades get, the more the brain craves them.

-End of quote-
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/bus...

And Ben Stein says;

"In other words, traders are sending stocks down by a fantastically larger amount than is warranted by a recession or the losses in subprime. How and why does it happen? As someone said in the movie: "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." It's just Chinatown in trader-land, where money is made and there is no perspective."

Read his interesting article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/bus...

The powers that be want economic depression, so they can hijack the dollar, because they want one world currency.

February 7, 2008 at 5:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Toll Brothers 1Q Home-Building Rev $842.7M, -22% >TOLL last update: 2/6/2008 5:39:52 AM DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
Toll Brothers Inc. (TOL) Wednesday said it doesn't see any end in sight to housing market woes, and said its fiscal first-quarter home-building revenue fell 22% from year-ago levels to $842.7 million. "The housing market remains very weak in most areas. Based on current traffic and deposits, we are not yet seeing much light at the end of the tunnel," said Robert Toll, the firm's chairman and CEO. Toll Brothers said its backlog fell to $2.4 billion, down 42% from the fiscal first quarter of 2007. The company said the gross number of signed contracts on homes fell 46% from last year. Toll said the average price of a house it sold fell, while the average price of cancelled houses rose. "With conditions still weak in most markets, we expect to continue to face challenging times ahead," Toll said. The company said it is still finalizing its first-quarter impairment analysis, but said it expects pretax write-downs of between $150 million and $300 million.
Toll said it will report full first-quarter results on Feb. 27.
-Greg Morcroft; 415-439-6400; AskNewswires@dowjones.com (END) Dow Jones Newswires

February 6, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

424now (anonymous) says...

Welcome to my neck of the woods,

I can't afford to invest in the stock maket. I wish I could but I can't.

But,

SBC, You quote a comment that made me think.

"With conditions still weak in most markets, we expect to continue to face challenging times ahead,"

I thought SS is not most markets. I am painfully aware of that. I need a three bedroom house at a reasonable price. In a nice neighborhood. Close to or in town. 600,000.00 is not my idea of reasonable. I'm still waiting.

The housing market may slump across the board but I have been in that industry a long time and I can tell you it slows but it never stops. Every slump I have witnessed has turned a corner eventually.

Now I would like to ask the thread a question.

Reviewing some of the data furnished in links above I have seen several trends. Overall they seem to me to indicate that;

Over the last 60 years we have had several fluctuations in an economy that has overall continued to grow.

Is that incorrect?

February 6, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Wonder what happens tomorrow on Wall Street?

http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles...

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ar...

Nuff said.

February 6, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Ever hear of a Corporate Sweep account?

-Quote-

In United States Banking, eurodollars are a popular option for what are known as "sweeps". By law, banks aren't allowed to pay interest on corporate checking accounts. To accommodate larger businesses, banks may automatically transfer, or sweep, funds from a corporation's checking account into an overnight investment option to effectively earn interest on those funds. Banks usually allow these funds to be swept either into money market mutual funds, or alternately they may be used for bank funding by transferring to an offshore branch of a bank (thus a eurodollar).

-End of quote-
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurodollar

But guess what. You have to read the fine print.

-Quote-
Please note that your money in the Sweep Investment Account is invested in money market funds that are not insured nor guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) or any other government agency. Although the funds seek to preserve the value of your investment at $1.00 per share, it is possible to lose money by investing in the funds. A current prospectus must accompany investment information. Investors should read the prospectus carefully before investing.
-End of quote-
Source: http://www.guarantybank.com/corporate...

Some of these corporations hold billion in their corporate checking accounts. Naturally, although unethical, many are
going to allow the banks to do this.

What happens when these investment begin to tank, like they are, and the holders of the offshore eurodollar accounts begin to keep more and more, effectively sucking up all the dollars in the US.

Since they control the Federal Reserve, they can simply print more money, further deflating the value of the dollar,

trapping these huge corporate investments in offshore accounts, that Americans have absolutely no control over.

February 7, 2008 at 5:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

kiel
Wall Street thinks the stimulus package is all BS anyway. I hope they derail the whole thing.
when I mentioned the ISM numbers yesterday morning, the bore dismissed it with the same old same old cut and paste, so you had to know that it was relevant
Cisco is getting slaughtered after hours the QQQQ's and SPY will be down tomorrow. Technically its still sell the rallies.
pt
well you got steel ones eh?
hope you sold some covered calls against them.
424
Steamboat is not most markets, since it is a resort area, and highly desirable. over the last 10 years nearly everyone's property has doubled in value, vacant land has appreciated even more (astronomically in some cases, and is the biggest factor, in my opinion, to the cost of housing being so high) so you are about 10 years late to the party. about 30% of that has come in the last 2 years. So are we in a bubble here? well the answer is... maybe. when I see 900 sf 4 plex crackerboxes going for $500 a sf, then maybe it's time to sell my 2300sf single family I built for $200k and move to Laguna Beach and live happily ever after.
Its impossible to call a top or bottom in any market, but I think we are at a crossroads here and and I expect that prices will hold but not go up for a while. Mortgage lending standards are getting tougher there wont be anyone lending on those $450k condos with little or no down and no income verification. tighter lending could bring prices down , or it could take supply off the market if people decide that if they cant get their price they wont sell. but I can be pretty sure that it still will not be affordable to own a house here anytime soon.
Colorado is a boom or bust economy, housing in general is the same. until the major homebuilders work off their inventory of unsold homes and banks get the majority of their foreclosed properties sold, housing will be in a slump.
Locals here will remember it wasnt too many years ago the Sunday Pilot's public notices were full of foreclosure notices.
Been quiet lately.
Is that about to change?

February 6, 2008 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

how about a plane ticket to Pamplona? it would be safer.

February 6, 2008 at 10:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Treasurys slide after auction draws poor reception
U.S. Treasurys plunged on Thursday, sending yields sharply higher, with the long bond down nearly three full points, after the government's $9 billion auction of 30-year bonds drew a dismal reception.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story...

February 7, 2008 at 5:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

A bond Primer
The Last Asset Bubble?
ttp://www.contraryinvestor.com/mo.htm

February 7, 2008 at 5:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

make that link
http://www.contraryinvestor.com/mo.htm

February 7, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

January jobs report:
http://interestrateroundup.blogspot.c...

"* The economy shed 17,000 jobs in January, much worse than the forecast for a gain of 70,000 (especially after ADP said the economy ADDED 130,000 workers in the month). It's also the first time the economy lost jobs since August 2003 (-42,000). The chart above shows the net gains or losses in jobs, by month, going back several years.

* As it always does in January, the Bureau of Labor Statistics revised its jobs numbers from the past year. Most months saw reductions in job growth, with the net impact a cut of 376,000 jobs to 2007's previously reported numbers.

* Earnings growth slowed. Average hourly earnings were up just 0.2% after gaining 0.4% in December. That was below the 0.3% that economists were looking for.

* The "diffusion" index fell to 46.2 from 50 in December. This number measures how many industries are ADDING jobs against how many are CUTTING them. A number below 50 means more industries are shedding workers than adding them. January's reading was the lowest since August 2003.

* Speaking of industry cuts, the construction sector shed another 27,000 jobs (on top of readings of -45,000 in December and -57,000 in November), and manufacturing lost another 28,000 positions, the biggest drop since August (-45,000).

There weren't many other notable gains or losses, with the exception of education/health (+47,000). Leisure and hospitality continues to add jobs, but the rate of increase is slowing (to 19,000 in January from 22,000 in December, 24,000 in November and 52,000 in October). In fact overall service sector gained just 34,000 jobs in January, the least since October 2005.

Early market reaction? Stock futures have dipped into negative territory. Long bond futures are trading up a half point, while 2-year yields are down 5 basis points and 10-year yields have dipped just over a basis point. The dollar index initially spiked lower, but is now off just 14 ticks. It's worth pointing out, however, that the DXY has been deteriorating over the past several days and it's now within a stone's throw of its multi-decade low (75.05 now vs. the November 23, 2007 low of 74.48)."

Paints a rosy picture, eh? Makes you wonder what the Feb rate will show. Plus, the Senate voted the Bill in today. Note that this is dated 1FEB and states EARLY market reaction.

A recession is coming. Why else would there even BE a stimulus package? Bush even admitted there was a risk of recession...or a PC "downturn."

Just like the old Steamboat slogan: "It's Comin'." You can't see it because your got your head up someone's southbound talking points.

In fact, the last stimulus package (read: tax cuts) still not keep us from recession. We bombed Iraq in order to get out of it. About the time it turned around.

Don't bother answering: I'm sure you're too busy coming up with a new handle to hide behind soon, because again: "It's Comin'!"

February 7, 2008 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Many Believe US Already in a Recession
Sixty-one percent of the public believes the economy is now suffering through its first recession since 2001, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll.

The fallout from a depressed housing market and a credit crunch nearly caused the economy to stall in the final three months of last year. Some experts, like the majority of people questioned in the poll, say the economy actually may be shrinking now. The worry is that consumers and businesses will hunker down further and pull back spending, sending the economy into a tailspin.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080210/recess...

February 10, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

January jobs report:
http://interestrateroundup.blogspot.com/...

"* The economy shed 17,000 jobs in January, much worse than the forecast for a gain of 70,000 (especially after ADP said the economy ADDED 130,000 workers in the month). It's also the first time the economy lost jobs since August 2003 (-42,000). The chart above shows the net gains or losses in jobs, by month, going back several years.

* As it always does in January, the Bureau of Labor Statistics revised its jobs numbers from the past year. Most months saw reductions in job growth, with the net impact a cut of 376,000 jobs to 2007's previously reported numbers.

* Earnings growth slowed. Average hourly earnings were up just 0.2% after gaining 0.4% in December. That was below the 0.3% that economists were looking for.

* The "diffusion" index fell to 46.2 from 50 in December. This number measures how many industries are ADDING jobs against how many are CUTTING them. A number below 50 means more industries are shedding workers than adding them. January's reading was the lowest since August 2003.

* Speaking of industry cuts, the construction sector shed another 27,000 jobs (on top of readings of -45,000 in December and -57,000 in November), and manufacturing lost another 28,000 positions, the biggest drop since August (-45,000).

There weren't many other notable gains or losses, with the exception of education/health (+47,000). Leisure and hospitality continues to add jobs, but the rate of increase is slowing (to 19,000 in January from 22,000 in December, 24,000 in November and 52,000 in October). In fact overall service sector gained just 34,000 jobs in January, the least since October 2005.

Early market reaction? Stock futures have dipped into negative territory. Long bond futures are trading up a half point, while 2-year yields are down 5 basis points and 10-year yields have dipped just over a basis point. The dollar index initially spiked lower, but is now off just 14 ticks. It's worth pointing out, however, that the DXY has been deteriorating over the past several days and it's now within a stone's throw of its multi-decade low (75.05 now vs. the November 23, 2007 low of 74.48)."

Paints a rosy picture, eh? Makes you wonder what the Feb rate will show. Plus, the Senate voted the Bill in today. Note that this is dated 1FEB and states EARLY market reaction.

A recession is coming. Why else would there even BE a stimulus package? Bush even admitted there was a risk of recession...or a PC "downturn."

Just like the old Steamboat slogan: "It's Comin'." You can't see it because your got your head up someone's southbound talking points.

In fact, the last stimulus package (read: tax cuts) still not keep us from recession. We bombed Iraq in order to get out of it. About the time it turned around.

Don't bother answering: I'm sure you're too busy coming up with a new handle to hide behind soon, because again: "It's Comin'!"

February 10, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The Mother of all Bubbles the Bond Market
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/edi...

February 10, 2008 at 10:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

yeah bore
I guess the worldwide banking system going down the tubes is a real snoozer.
like all your boring rhetoric.
Hows your IRA doing?

February 11, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Tip of the Iceberg
NEW YORK, Feb 11 (Reuters) - American International Group Inc (AIG.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the world's largest insurer, on Monday disclosed that its auditors questioned the company's internal controls over its valuation of derivatives, sending its shares down more than 11 percent.

The disclosure cast doubt on AIG's past contention that it didn't face major problems stemming from the credit crisis that has slammed other financial institutions.
http://www.reuters.com/article/market...

February 11, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

US Subslime infects the World
Sub-prime fears at WestLB and IKB threaten German banking
WestLB and the IKB, once dubbed the turbines in Germany's powerhouse, were struggling yesterday to cling on to their reputation as serious lenders.

The two banks are still reeling from the meltdown in the US sub-prime market. The crisis is percolating through the whole of the German banking sector; politicians are increasingly nervous that at least one German bank may go under, which would send a devastating signal to the markets.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol...

February 11, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Let's Have a Good Old-Fashioned Recession
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/02/11...

February 11, 2008 at 6:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime
How the Bush Administration Stopped the States From Stepping In to Help Consumers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
By Eliot Spitzer
Thursday, February 14, 2008; Page A25

Several years ago, state attorneys general and others involved in consumer protection began to notice a marked increase in a range of predatory lending practices by mortgage lenders. Some were misrepresenting the terms of loans, making loans without regard to consumers' ability to repay, making loans with deceptive "teaser" rates that later ballooned astronomically, packing loans with undisclosed charges and fees, or even paying illegal kickbacks. These and other practices, we noticed, were having a devastating effect on home buyers. In addition, the widespread nature of these practices, if left unchecked, threatened our financial markets.

Even though predatory lending was becoming a national problem, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing to protect American homeowners. In fact, the government chose instead to align itself with the banks that were victimizing consumers.

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis. This threat was so clear that as New York attorney general, I joined with colleagues in the other 49 states in attempting to fill the void left by the federal government. Individually, and together, state attorneys general of both parties brought litigation or entered into settlements with many subprime lenders that were engaged in predatory lending practices. Several state legislatures, including New York's, enacted laws aimed at curbing such practices.

What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge? As Americans are now painfully aware, with hundreds of thousands of homeowners facing foreclosure and our markets reeling, the answer is a resounding no.

February 14, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.

Let me explain: The administration accomplished this feat through an obscure federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has been in existence since the Civil War. Its mission is to ensure the fiscal soundness of national banks. For 140 years, the OCC examined the books of national banks to make sure they were balanced, an important but uncontroversial function. But a few years ago, for the first time in its history, the OCC was used as a tool against consumers.

In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules.

But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation.

Throughout our battles with the OCC and the banks, the mantra of the banks and their defenders was that efforts to curb predatory lending would deny access to credit to the very consumers the states were trying to protect. But the curbs we sought on predatory and unfair lending would have in no way jeopardized access to the legitimate credit market for appropriately priced loans. Instead, they would have stopped the scourge of predatory lending practices that have resulted in countless thousands of consumers losing their homes and put our economy in a precarious position.

When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners, the Bush administration will not be judged favorably. The tale is still unfolding, but when the dust settles, it will be judged as a willing accomplice to the lenders who went to any lengths in their quest for profits. So willing, in fact, that it used the power of the federal government in an unprecedented assault on state legislatures, as well as on state attorneys general and anyone else on the side of consumers.

The writer is governor of New York.

February 14, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

just pointing out the Totalitarian nature of the Bush Badministration

February 14, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Bore
Happy Valentine's Day, Honey
XOXOXO!!

February 14, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Bore's on autopilot again. Another cut & paste.

Phone ringing a bit yesterday so you had to take the day off? LOL!

February 14, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Same old C+P,
Rinse repeat
etc,etc,etc.........

February 14, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

TALK BACK: Credit Cards To Meet Same Result As Mtges - ExecLast update: 2/14/2008 3:14:54 PM
The comment below responds to the question we posed on Dow Jones NewsPlus: What do you fear will happen next in the credit crunch? Please share your own views. Email us at TalkBackAmericas@dowjones.com.
Peter M. Fuhlbrigge, branch manager at Raymond James Financial Services Inc., writes: The next big "news" of the current credit crunch is already happening: massive anticipated losses by credit card debtholders. All those mailings of invitations to take credit cards will be met with the same result as that for unscrupulous mortgage brokers pushing adjustable-rate loans. The trouble is there is nothing to foreclose against.
(TALK BACK comments may well be submitted by readers who have a financial interest in the securities that are being discussed.) (TALK BACK: We invite readers to send us comments on this or other financial news topics. Please email us at TalkbackAmericas@dowjones.com. (END) Dow Jones Newswires
February 14, 2008 15:14 ET (20:14 GMT)

February 14, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

guess you can kiss yesterday's gains goodbye
out on the lows
http://finance.yahoo.com/

February 14, 2008 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Don't forget this one!
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080214/congre...

February 14, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Might want to invest in solar. Electricity will be in high demand during and economic downfall, especially electricity from local (sources) Generator companies too, like Generac, should be hot.

Call me to install all of the above :)

February 14, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The Fed is still sucking liquidity out not putting it in. Non borrowed reserves down another $18B.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/release...

February 14, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Celebrities Not Immune to the Real Estate Crisis
Waaaah...........
http://homeguide123.com/articles/Cele...
Some celebs are feeling the pinch as the housing downturn worsens. Others are actually facing foreclosure and losing their homes to the subprime mortgage crisis. See which stars are losing out to real estate here.

February 16, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Wall Street Falls After Weak Economic Data Sparks Concern About Recession
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080221/wall_s...

NEW YORK (AP) -- The stock market finished with a sharp loss Thursday after bleak readings on the economy heightened investors' fears of recession. The Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 140 points.

Wall Street was disappointed when the Philadelphia Federal Reserve reported that regional manufacturing fell more than predicted. Another piece of bad news was the Conference Board's January index of leading economic indicators, which posted its fourth straight drop.

February 21, 2008 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The Subprime Primer
caution; strong language, but highly educational
http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?re...

February 23, 2008 at 7:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Wow! Look at this!

http://www.conference-board.org/econo...

February 23, 2008 at 7:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

hey kiel
what up?
looks like bore is on a sabbatical. LOL

February 23, 2008 at 9 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

I was telling pt22 to wait until a little before the election. Bore will be back with a new handle. I'm betting "BadPenny" since that always "turns up!" LOL!

Just finished watching the Klitschko fight. Wish it could have been a little more exciting, though.

February 23, 2008 at 9:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

pt
yup, just like a good little coward would!

February 24, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Waah! Poor Countrywide
Countrywide Cancels Ski Junket For Bankers -
NYTLast update: 2/25/2008 2:51:46 AMNEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Countrywide Financial Corp. (CFC) has canceled a gathering of bankers from smaller mortgage banks at the Ritz-Carlton Bachelor Gulch ski resort in Avon, Colo., where room rates begin at $725, Countrywide said in a statement on Sunday, The New York Times reported in its Monday editions. The company was to pay for 30 invited guests' hotel rooms, meals, skiing and tips. In the statement, the Countrywide said that "in light of recent events" it had decided to cancel all gatherings with business partners and clients for the rest of the year, moving quickly after being criticized for planning such an extravagant event, the Times reported. The three-night gathering, which was to include business meetings as well as skiing, drinking and sampling expensive meals like $140 caviar and Kurobuta pork osso bucco at the Spago restaurant, had already drawn negative press. Countrywide reported a $422 million loss for its fourth quarter, after setting aside $924 million for credit losses and taking an $831 million impairment charge related to home equity lines of credit. It has also laid off more than 11,000 employees since last July. Newspaper Web Site: http://www.nytimes.com

February 25, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

OnTheBusGus (anonymous) says...

Where is sbvor?

Can we put the words "sbvor" on a milk carton? We can't put up a photo because we only have words and links to random websites.

sbvor's last post:

Posted on February 15 at 10:05 a.m.
On Socialist Health Care

February 27, 2008 at 8:59 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

bore is vacationing in Cuba,
hobnobbing with the Castro boys

February 27, 2008 at 10:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

weekend reading, get edumacated!
HEY! WHERE DID MY MONEY GO????
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_...
UBS sees writedowns hitting $600 billion
http://dailybriefing.blogs.fortune.cn...
Billions of dollars of sales slam muni bonds
http://www.reuters.com/article/busine...
Scamming our Education System
New York Attorney General Subpoenas Sallie Mae on Private Student Loans
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080229/slm_su...
Warren Buffett's Letter to Shareholders: Don't Expect Double-Digit Stock Gains Over Long Run
http://www.cnbc.com/id/23410720
State of the Economy
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/20...
Listen and Learn
http://tickervideo.org/27Feb08.mp3

February 29, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Bernankespeak
http://www.federalreserve.gov/newseve...

March 4, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

it aint hysteria fool
its reality
Dollar=worthless
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_...
Dollar index tumbles to a record low
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ef22c25a-e9...
Oil
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USO&t=3m
Food
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/comm...
Hows your IRA doing?
Plan on giving your "Stimulus" check to the poor? or will the poor be you
keep clinging to your outdated economic model, the only ones denying we are not in a recession are Bushie and his puppets
their record of lying to the American public speaks for itself
glad you will be going down with the ship. LOL

March 4, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

meant to say
"the only ones saying we are not in a recession are Bushie and his puppets"
like you never make a typo.

March 4, 2008 at 10:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Housing in deepest decline since the Great Depression, economist says
Housing is in its "deepest, most rapid downswing since the Great Depression," the chief economist for the National Association of Home Builders said Wednesday, and the downward momentum on housing prices appears to be accelerating.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story...

Housing, which took 1.25 percentage points off GDP in the fourth quarter, looks like it will continue to be a major drag on gross domestic product at least through the end of 2008, he said.

March 4, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Home Foreclosures Hit Record High
Home foreclosures soared to an all-time high in the final quarter of last year, underscoring the suffering of distressed homeowners and the growing danger the housing meltdown poses for the economy.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080306/home_f...

March 6, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Stocks Fall After Jobless Report
The Labor Department's report that employers cut jobs by 63,000 last month -- the most since March 2003 -- unnerved investors worried about the health of the economy and who had been expecting a 25,000 gain in jobs. While the unemployment rate fell to 4.8 percent, the decline reflects people leaving the labor force.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/wall_s...
Consumer Confidence at Lowest Since 2002
According to the RBC Cash Index, confidence sank to a mark of 33.1 in early March, down from 48.5 in February. The new reading was the worst since the index began in 2002 and surpassed the previous low reached in February.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/consum...
Fed Rate Cuts Backfire, Lift Gold and Oil into Orbit
http://seekingalpha.com/article/67570...

March 7, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Your looking at PRELIMINARY numbers as of 28FEB08. We've seen all other numbers, including job losses, get revised downward after the final totals get released. Blaming it the 1st wave of baby boomers...funny. And what part of left field did that come from?

I sure you'll have raw crow to munch on since you never get cookin'.

March 7, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Baby boomers retiring?
HAHAHAHAJHAHAHA!!!
You have got to be from the planet URanus!!!
read this and learn
What Jobs? Ben's Fiddling Again...
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/20...
"We have never had two negative jobs prints in a row outside of a recession. This is a 100% accurate indicator from a historical perspective."

"The reason we didn't get a negative print of over a half-million jobs was that 644,000 people GAVE UP during the month of January! Those people do not count as unemployed but they are no longer in the job force!"
and while you at it read some of the past articles.

March 7, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

OMG!! 2 straight months of declining unemployment?? "Baby, Baby! Where did my job go?"

Funny how unemployment goes down at the same time as increased job losses come down. Sounds like a bunch of dishonest politico hub-bub. They're just as dishonest as any press agent, easily. Otherwise, you'd trust the government to be able to handle more aspects of daily life.

As for you prediction, when 30APR comes around, wait another 2-3 months for the "revised" figures, as it always comes.

And if my spelling is the best you can dispute...LMAO!!! Maybe you'll finally spell sbhor correctly.

March 7, 2008 at 10:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Dangerous Cracks Appearing in Job Market
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080308/econom...
For the second straight month, nervous employers got rid of jobs nationwide. In February, they sliced payrolls by 63,000, even deeper than the 22,000 cut in January, the Labor Department reported Friday.
The shower of pink slips was widespread. Factories, construction companies, mortgage brokers, real-estate firms, retailers, temporary-help firms, child day-care providers, hotels, educational services, accounting firms and computer designers were among those shedding jobs. All those cuts swamped job gains at hospitals and other health care sites, bars and restaurants, legal services and the government.
well at least the Gov ( more interns for the Repubs to slobber over?) and bars ( so the jobless can commiserate with each other) are hiring.

Bush's top economic adviser, Edward Lazear, acknowledged Friday that the economy may dip into negative territory in the current quarter. Lazear's comment was the most pessimistic assessment heard out of the White House.

The worsening situation will prompt the Federal Reserve to cut a key interest rate deeply -- perhaps by as much as three-quarters of a percentage point -- at its next meeting March 18, or possibly sooner, to help brace the teetering economy, analysts predicted.
Yup, there goes the Dollar, and with it comes inflation = less spending by J6P.
"I personally know many people who have retired in their early fifties and even their forties. Sixty-two is a VERY likely age at which to retire in America.
Ergo, there is EVERY reason to believe we are (THIS very year) seeing the first massive wave of Baby Boomer retirement (thereby substantially reducing the number of people in the work force)."
Where in the BLS report does it mention retirement as part of their statistics? Ergo, meaning your statement is just YOUR opinion, not fact like you would love to have your minions believe.
We have not yet seen effect of the massive layoffs yet to come in the mortgage, banking,real estate, auto and manufacturing sectors.
But we probably will come 4/30/08.

March 8, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

And don't forget that for the first time since WWII home equity has dropped below 50% for owners. "Signs, Signs, everywhere are signs!"

March 8, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

And BTW, that "stupid blogger" happens to be a card carrying Conservative (not a Bushie) who, unlike you, knows that this country that you love so much, is being taken down the road to ruin by this administration's idiotic monetary, political and foreign policy.
But you wouldn't understand that, your "facts" are getting in your way.

March 8, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

kiel
why arent you at the concert?
I'd be but for previous commitment
or is bluegrass not yer thing?

March 8, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

SBC- Nah. My formative years put my in the Classic Rock/Hair Metal time period. I don't dislike Bluegrass, but not my normal choice of music. Love contemporary a cappella, too. Big fan of Rockapella (saw them a few years back at the Strings Tent) and The Nylons!

I've actually just gotten Daughtry's album and am lovin' that, though. I will be going to Three Dog Night in Craig this summer...at least I intend to. Finally!! A group I recognize!! In fact, both The Nylons and Rockapella have great versions of Eli's Coming & Shambala, repsectively.

I can listen to pretty much anything, but Classic & 80's get me going. Plus, had to tech rehearse earlier for the Dance Theater, for the concert this week.

March 8, 2008 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

How about jobs ending or jobs just being cut?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/07/news/...

In fact, there's that little "revised" word popping up that I mentioned before...you see where it was forecast as a gain of 25,000 jobs? Gee...guess the forecast for sunny weather was wrong.

So the way you "see it" doesn't count when you wear blinders like a horse with a carrot on a stick being held by Bush. Looks like Bush is even ringing your Pavlovian bell. Better answer it!

March 8, 2008 at 7:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

If by "your stupidity" you meant YOUR stupidity...all over that. I guess that means no links saying that projections always come true if you wish real hard!

Yep- nobody leaves the workforce when the jobs have been cut. They just stay there working for free in true Conservative fashion, if by Conservative you mean slave labor. Pull out the troll-wording all you like- jobs have been cut. I even provided the link. (Stop! Oh yeah...Wait a minute, Mr. Postman...it must be dishonest reporting for that link! That explains it all!!!)

March 8, 2008 at 7:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Angelo is gonna look good in stripes
But it wont be in pinstripes
Hows everybody's CW home equity loans looking?
FBI Begins Investigation Into Countrywide Financial Corp. for Securities Fraud
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080309/countr...

March 9, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The Next Slum?
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803...

March 9, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

bore
what is it with you?
you seem to be the most misanthropic person around here.
you turn EVERY discussion you involve yourself in as a liberal -conservative debate when the majority of the time the topic has no political or idealogical basis. every bully has his pulpit, but you have to visit every church on a daily basis I guess. Sad.
The real reason for the economic mess we are in, including subprime can be summed up in one word.
GREED
Liberals, conservatives, Dems, Repubs, are all complicit in this, whether they actively took part in creating the problems i.e. the Angelo Mozillo's, Chuck Prince's and Sandy Weill's of the world, or stood by while it happened before our eyes i.e. every member of the Bush administration and every member of Congrease, to the mortgage brokers, real estate agents, home appraisers, banks, developers, condo and home flippers who played musical chairs until the music stopped. And now those without chairs are whining for the Gov't to "please bail us out, we promise to be good". So what we get is a panicked White House throwing Billions of (getting more worthless every day) dollars out the helicopter $600 at a time and says "its all good now", and Hillbama floating BS bailouts while McCain's way out is keep us in Iraq for 100 years since war is good for the economy, right?
and of course no white people got subprime loans, right? only greedy blacks and hispanics. sorry but every realtor, broker, banker and crook in this country is, unlike you, color blind,because the only color they saw was GREEN.
whether you believe it or not and I could care less if you do or dont, this country is in a world of S***, no matter if you call it a recession or a slowdown or an opportunity. brought to you by the dynamic duo of FEAR and GREED.
and if you cant wrap your narrow minded pea brain around that then:
Good Luck to you.
You will need it.

March 9, 2008 at 10:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Going , Going, Gone......
JPMorgan Chase, With Federal Reserve Bank of NY, to Provide Funding to Bear Stearns

NEW YORK (AP) -- The federal government and JPMorgan Chase & Co. teamed up on a bailout of Bear Stearns Cos. on Friday, a last-ditch move to save the investment bank, which acknowledged its dire financial straits after a week of firm denials. Bear Stearns lost half of its value within 30 minutes of the market open.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080314/bear_s...

March 14, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Are We Heading Into a Depression?
'Automatic' Economic Recovery Isn't Certain, Says Economist Robert Parks
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Econom...
Only last fall, most economists were forecasting a modest slowdown. Now, a good majority of them see a slump big enough to qualify as a recessio

1 IN 10 OHIOANS
Food stamps double since '01
http://dispatch.com/live/content/loca...
Nearly one in 10 Ohioans now receives food stamps, the highest number in the state's history.

Caseloads have almost doubled just since 2001, with 1.1 million residents now collecting benefits, according to the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

Low wages, unemployment and the rising cost of groceries, gasoline and other necessities are to blame for financial hardships facing many Ohio families.

A System Overdue for Reform
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/bus...
And lest you think Mr. Frank's notions for new regulation are just the knee-jerk impulse of a liberal Democrat, I can say with some authority that there is a surprising amount of support, even on Wall Street, for the idea that investment banks need more stringent regulation. That includes influential people like Byron Wien of Pequot Capital, Laurence Fink of BlackRock, the economist Alan Blinder, Allan Sinai of Decision Economics, Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase, and even Larry Kudlow, the archconservative host of "Kudlow & Company" on CNBC.

"I think investment banks need to be regulated," Mr. Kudlow told me flatly. He added that although he often disagreed with Mr. Frank, he felt that he was "a good thinker and not a knee-jerk liberal." I'll tell you, I nearly fell off my chair.

March 29, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

the Repubes would love for us to ignore the problems of the economy and spend our way out of it , right?
too bad Americans have maxxed out their HELOCs and credit cards already.
cant wait for that amazing rebate check we all are getting, that'll help LOL
guess you'll be sending yours back as an act of patriotism right bore?

March 29, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

BREAKING NEWS!!!
Hillary WASN'T LYING! Bosnia gunfire footage discovered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq...

March 29, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

I havent seen you posting any GOOD economic news, just rhetoric.
Durable Goods
http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/m...
Inventories up, durables down, non-defense new orders down, shipments down, January revised up slightly.
Most ominously in the internals, machinery orders are down 10.3% on the month. This is a particularly nasty number because machinery is, of course, necessary to make "things", which turns into GDP.
Motor vehicles and parts were also down significantly, 2.7-2.8% both for shipments and orders.
This is two durables reports in a row that show business wallets are snapping shut as are those of consumers.

Dallas Fed chief says business execs concerned about inflation
Fisher says the Federal Reserve is in the 'horns of a dilemma'
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story...
In a speech in Fort Worth, Fisher said the Fed was in the "horns of a dilemma:" trying to keep the economy from falling into a "prolonged" slowdown while at the same time not "stirring the embers of inflation."
I guess that by your definition EVERY media source in the country are hysterical, cause I just cant find any that say anything good about the economy.
Even your buddy Rupert's media outlet doesnt have anything good to say
Forget April Fools' Day: Next Week's Data is No Joke
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ec...
Next Tuesday may be April Fools' Day, but the data due out during the week will be no joke--especially if it's as bad as expected.
well you may call this good news
Consumer Spending Edges Up 0.1% in February
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/ec...
The Commerce Department said Friday that consumer spending edged up by just 0.1% last month, the poorest showing since September 2006. And if the effects of inflation are removed, spending was flat in February, the third consecutive month of sluggish activity.

The performance of the consumer is closely watched since consumer spending accounts for two-thirds of total economic activity. Economists said the sustained weakness in this area is one of the most worrisome signs that the economy could be tipping into a recession.
The prolonged slump in housing, rising job layoffs, soaring energy costs and a severe credit crisis are taking their toll on consumer confidence. All of these troubles are causing consumers to cut back on their purchases.

March 29, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Good thing our Boy Wonder has it figured out
This morning on NBC's Today Show, President Bush denied that the there's any link between the faltering U.S. economy and $10 billion a month being spent on the Iraq war. In fact, according to Bush, the war is actually helping the economy:
CURRY: You don't agree with that? It has nothing do with the economy, the war - spending on the war?
BUSH: I don't think so. I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs:because we're buying equipment, and people are working. I think this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy's adjusting.
The Iraq war has created jobs - for the administration's defense contractor allies. Bush's most recent budget is a windfall for contractors, and between 2000 and 2005, procurement was the "fastest growing component of federal discretionary spending." (Halliburton has been the biggest beneficiary of the administration's generosity.)
Five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, however, national unemployment is going up. Between December 2006 and December 2007, the national unemployment rate increased by 13.6 percent in seasonally adjusted terms, from 4.4 to 5.0 percent. Additionally, 68 percent of the American public believes that redeployment from Iraq would help fix the country's economic woes.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/18/b...
As his Daddy would have said "It's all good!"

March 29, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Is this all what you discussed at today's Rotary meeting?

April 1, 2008 at 10:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Looks like Bernanke and the IMF are hysteria pimps too
Bernanke Warns of Possible Recession
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080402/bernan...
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Wednesday a recession is possible and policymakers are "fighting against the wind" in trying to steady a shaky economy. He would not say if further interest rate cuts are planned.

IMF Cuts Global Forecast on Worst Crisis Since 1930s
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...
April 2 (Bloomberg) -- The International Monetary Fund cut its forecast for global growth this year and said there's a 25 percent chance of a world recession, citing the worst financial crisis in the U.S. since the Great Depression.

April 2, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE WEEKLY CLAIMS REPORT
http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/et...

April 3, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

bore sez
You whining wimps should have been in the labor market around 1981/1982
hey jerkoff,
I was and well before that too. I had a 12% mortgage, and I remember struggling to keep my family fed. I am no entitled 20 or 30 something
you dont have a monopoly on economic crises, a lot of us here know all about them
what you dont see with your blind pragmatism is that we are heading down the path of economic ruin, this time led by the opposite of the 80's, an interest rate kept artificially low for too long that allowed banks, mortgage companies, investment firms, realtors, etc to make obscene amounts of money at the average "Joe's" expense. now I am watching, Bernanke, Cox (a total idiot and tool) and Steel (stuttering Hank is "conveniently" unavaiable) with their tails between their legs trying to explain (lie) to Congress why they bailed out Bear Stearns, which they all ADMITTED that if they had allowed to fail, would have brought down not only our banking system (meaning there would have been a run on the banks ala 1929) but the worlds. (this is not my words, read the transcripts when they come out)
Greed, which has been nutured by all in the Bush White House is bringing this country down. I have challenged you to show me ANY good news about the economy reported in any media. And what Reagan did in the 80's doesn't count. I mean real evidence that there is any expansion or real growth coming anytime soon.
Well?

April 3, 2008 at 10:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Taxpayers to Foot Homebuilders' Losses?
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/B...
As people rubberneck the Bear Stearns (BSC) demise, one of the most questionable legislative moves in the modern era is getting rammed down taxpayers' throats without nary a peep by the mass media.

I'm talking about the proposed loss carryback provision, which would allow homebuilders to recover taxes paid during the bubble years by offsetting the income with the losses they're incurring now.

In essence, taxpayers will give back to the Robert Tolls (Toll Bros. (TOL)) and Ara Hovnanians (Hovnanian (HOV)) of the world millions of dollars to prop up their closely held companies, i.e. companies in which they have majority interest and/or control, whose stocks these individuals had the magic foresight to dump by the millions of shares right before the whole Ponzi scheme collapsed.

If ever there was an action that should undermine investors' confidence in the U.S. market system and reinforce the view that the government exists to grease the palms of those who pay their way into influencing the government, this is it.

I haven't had a position in homies in quite a while, so I could care less whether they go up or down. Furthermore, taxpayers' money is likely to do nothing to the business prospects of those companies, except permitting them to show taxpayers' involuntary charity as income on their statements, which probably will trigger more option grants to the insiders.

Alas, the involvement I do have in the homies is one with clearly defined downside only: that of a taxpayer watching money being transferred from my pocket to the pockets of those whose dog-and-pony hype shows were part and parcel of the disaster we're facing right now.

April 3, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Overdue Consumer Debts Highest Since 1992, ABA Says http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...
April 3 (Bloomberg) -- Consumers fell behind on car, credit-card and home-equity loans at the highest level in 15 years during the fourth quarter, another sign the U.S. economy is slowing, according to an American Bankers Association survey.

Payments at least 30 days past due increased across all eight categories of loans tracked, the Washington-based group said today in a statement. Late loans climbed 21 basis points to 2.65 percent of all accounts in a consumer-loan index created by the group.

``It's an indication of the degree of stress consumers are facing right now,'' said Nigel Gault, director of U.S. research at Lexington, Massachusetts-based Global Insight Inc. ``People overextended themselves, they took out loans they thought weren't a problem as long as house prices kept rising.''

And the good news is............................?

April 3, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Analyst: Sell Toxic Financials
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnbc/080402/2391...
The rebound in financial stocks is a golden opportunity to sell, as earnings will not return to the values before the beginning of the credit crunch, editor of the 'Gloom, Doom and Boom' report and long-standing bear Marc Faber told CNBC Europe Wednesday.

If troubled banks are not rescued, as was the case with Bear Stearns, their problems risk spreading through the whole financial system, Faber said, adding that "all financial institutions are toxic."

"The bubble in financial stocks has burst and that signals that the fundamentals aren't going to come back the way they were previously," Faber, who is managing director of Marc Faber Limited, told "Squawk Box Europe."

"Overall I think we can have a rebound in financials; I would rather use the rebound as a selling opportunity," he added. "In my opinion, financial sector earnings will not come back to where it was prior to the credit crisis we had."

April 3, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Hows your entitlements going?
sending back your socialist security checks any time soon bore?
how about your bailout check, sending it back too?
all of you NW Conservative council buddies gonna help by sending all their checks back too?
that would be the patriotic thing to do.
Well?
aren't you a Patriot?

April 3, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Village Inn owner files for bankruptcy
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnew...
Vicorp Restaurants Inc., the owner of the Village Inn and Bakers Square family-style restaurant chains, filed for bankruptcy protection in Wilmington, Delaware, today, citing rising food and labor costs and lower consumer spending.

Vicorp and its parent, VI Acquisition Corp., filed for Chapter 11 reorganization, listing more than $100 million in debt.

Denver-based Vicorp said in its court filing that it closed 56 of its 306 company-owned restaurants yesterday.

Vicorp was hurt in part by high gasoline prices that were forcing customers to eat out less, the company said in court papers. Rising costs for wages and the food that the company buys also caused a cash crisis that made it difficult for the company to pay its debt.

April 3, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

powderman (anonymous) says...

wow sbvor repeats himself a lot. its a really useful technique! keep on keepin on sunshine. just hold in there. eventually you will never win this battle against us all.

April 7, 2008 at 11:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

powdie
the boring one thinks he/she/it is a great master of psychology, and that us intelligent posters will fall for its Pavlovian attempt of obsessively posting the same drivel over and over assuming we will agree with it. in truth bore is an obsessive compulsive who cant see reality when it is right in front of its face. all we are doing is trying to help, but all our efforts have failed. I predict that by November, bore will be totally broken, and posting 24 hours a day in the vain attempt to singlehandedly change the election results.
It will be a sad thing to witness, and will be a textbook case that psychologists will study for years to come.

April 8, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

powderman (anonymous) says...

wow you are a very insightful individual steamboatsconscience. did you attend a university? i think you are my new hero. you know, i bet matt and trey of south park could make an episode with him, and have him be some crazy guy no one likes or something. yeah they will try to solve the mystery of his psychoness

April 8, 2008 at 11:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

The trillion-dollar mortgage time bomb
Risks are rising that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may need a government bailout that could cost far more than previous rescues.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/21/news/...
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Among the nightmares lurking around the corner for the already battered housing and credit markets would be a meltdown at mortgage financing giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Although few are predicting an imminent need for a bailout just yet, credit rating agency Standard & Poor's recently placed an estimated price tag on this worst case scenario -- $420 billion to $1.1 trillion of taxpayer's money.

This dwarfs how much it cost to help banks during the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980's and early 1990's. That cost taxpayers about $250 billion in today's dollars.

S&P added that saving Fannie (FNM) and Freddie (FRE, Fortune 500) might cost so much that the federal government's AAA credit rating, the top possible rating, might even be at risk. If that was lost, then all federal government borrowing would become more expensive.

April 22, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Many problems with mortgage bailouts
There are calls for the government to help homeowners at risk of foreclosure. But some experts think a mortgage rescue could cause more problems than it solves
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/22/news/...

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Congress appears eager to help more than a million homeowners facing foreclosure, but a proposal aimed at fixing the battered housing market could instead end up as the latest blow to a recovery.

An ambitious plan proposed by Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Chris Dodd calls for up to $300 billion in loan guarantees from the Federal Housing Administration to refinance loans that homeowners can't afford as long as the original lender reduces the principal on the loan to 85% of the home's current market value.

Backers say borrowers would get out from under unworkable debt and original lenders would get back more than they would foreclosing. It would also prevent 1.5 million foreclosures and halt home-price declines since it would keep more houses from flooding an already battered market.

Critics, including some in Congress, say the rescue plan rewards reckless behavior and transfers risk to homeowners and lenders who were responsible during the housing boom.
But some experts think this is the wrong solution for purely financial reasons.

April 22, 2008 at 11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Homes facing foreclosure more than doubled in 1Q from 2007
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080429/forecl...
Number of US homes facing foreclosure jumps 112 percent in first quarter from 2007

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The number of U.S. homes heading toward foreclosure more than doubled in the first quarter from a year earlier, as weakening property values and tighter lending left many homeowners powerless to prevent homes from being auctioned to the highest bidder, a research firm said Monday.
Among the hardest hit states were Nevada, Florida and, in particular, California, where Stockton led the nation with a foreclosure rate that was 6.6 times the national average, Irvine, Calif.-based RealtyTrac Inc. said.

Nationwide, 649,917 homes received at least one foreclosure-related filing in the first three months of the year, up 112 percent from 306,722 during the same period last year, RealtyTrac said.

April 29, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

spukomy (anonymous) says...

Maybe people should be allowed to fail, so as to learn from their mistakes. A $450K home shouldn't be bought by someone earning $40K. And taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for that person's mistake. Then again, maybe now is the time to go get a home you simply can afford and let the gov't help pay for it.

April 29, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

GDP tomorrow
6:30 AM
expected +.5%
Que Sera Sera

April 29, 2008 at 6:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Fed Chooses Wall Street Over Main Street
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/S...
It took from 1914 until November 2007 for the Federal Reserve to accumulate $800 billion worth of Treasury debt. It has taken from December 17 to the end of April for the Fed to divest itself of $260 billion of this portfolio, a decrease of one-third. In its place, it has placed AAA-rated mortgages. At the current swap rate, the Federal Reserve System will be out of Treasury debt in December of 2008. But by adding car loans to the list of eligible paper, the Fed will most likely greatly accelerate this."
- Economist Gary North

To the average person this is gibberish. Perhaps this is why the Fed is able to do what it's doing: slowly nationalize the banking system. The stabilization that everyone is giddy about has its cost. The private market, with the encouragement of the Federal Reserve, has manufactured vast debt that cannot be repaid. Banks used up their capital long ago, so the Fed has to take those bad loans away from them and give them capital back.

Stabilization is not a working banking system. When you hear all the CEOs of Wall-Street say the crisis is nearing an end, it has no implication for a working banking system that will create more credit.

The Fed adds a new twist everyday. Now it's going to pay interest on reserves banks must keep at the Fed. This will allow the Fed to expand its balance sheet even more and buy even more bad loans from banks. Again, this isn't a positive: It illustrates just how bad things are.

By the way, it's the U.S. taxpayer that will be picking up a good portion of this interest they will now pay to banks.

Chairman Ben Bernanke has been given high marks for saving the system. But just what are we saving? The average person does not understand that what they are really saving is the bankers and Wall Street at the expense of the middle-class standard of living. A devalued dollar of 50% hurts the middle class much more than a 50% decline in the stock market. Why not let a failed system fail, thus re-distributing savings and income back to the middle class? Of course, everyone will suffer but in the long run that will happen anyway and saving the system will disproportionally hurt the middle class more.

The system is broken. Every action by the Fed says so. Those that anticipate a shallow recession still do not understand this. The credit crunch has barely begun affecting the real economy. We're in the very early stages of this process and the government wants to boil the proverbial toad (the middle class) as slowly as possible.

Risk is very high.

May 7, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

steamboatsconscience (anonymous) says...

Coming Week: There Will Be Blood
http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/marke...
Disoriented investors will try to get their bearings next week with all eyes on black gold.

Oil flooded Wall Street Friday, slamming stocks with the help of more economic pain and financial disarray. After the recent 10% correction in oil futures markets, hopes of further easing got washed away by an epic, one-day, 11-dollar crude rally that sent prices gushing back to a new all-time record above $139-a-barrel.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average, having rallied by more than 100 points Thursday, turned around and fell nearly 400 on Friday. Elsewhere, credit markets are deteriorating again, and the financial industry continues to whither. Inflation is threatening, the dollar is weakening, job losses are mounting and fear is regaining its hold on the stock market.

"This is a train wreck in slow-motion," says Paul Mendelsohn, chief investment strategist with Windham Financial Services.
ouch.

June 8, 2008 at 11:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

spukomy (anonymous) says...

So......are we in a recession yet?

June 9, 2008 at 1:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

424now (anonymous) says...

Correction! eh, hem. excuse me.

June 17, 2008 at 5:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

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Photo galleries
Routt County in photos: Feb. 12 Alpine Ski Flying Championships 99th annual Winter Carnival Soroco wrestling at 2A Regionals wrestling tournament
Photos
Steamboat Springs Winter Sports Club swept the Youth Snowboard SL at USASA ... All three Winters boys got on the podium in USASA's slalom and ... Tim Magill screams after touching down on his final jump Sunday at ... Rolf Wilson flies to a championship Sunday in the Alpine Ski Flying ... Steamboat's Marsh Gooding floats the final few feet on a jump Sunday ... Tim Magill flies on Sunday at Howelsen Hill. Pat Arnone flies Sunday in the Alpine Ski Flying Championship in Steamboat ... Erik Wilson touches down Sunday during the Alpine Ski Flying Championship in ... The Steamboat Springs High School marching band performs Sunday in the Winter ... Logan Spiegel leads skiers through an obstacle course Sunday during the Winter ...