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dundalk (anonymous) says...

While shopping at City Market earlier this week, I saw a Maroon Blazer with anti-war, pro-ignorance filth painted over the entire car. The words F%^& Bush were scrawled across the car, as were even more preposterous claims that 9/11 was an "inside job". I was furious. However, given today's environment, I was hesitant to approach the vehicle.

I noticed in the blotter that someone had called the police and complained about the vulgarities on the car. "A report was taken".

Today, while at City Market, I again saw the nuisance vehicle. While I support freedom of speech, I could no longer control the surge of anger that was rising within my gut. I asked to speak with the mgr, who would not come and speak to me face to face. I spoke with an asst. mgr who smiled and attempted in vain to look interested. After 15 years coming to City Market, I found the vehicle to be offensive and asked that the police be called.

After realizing that perhaps the gal behind the checkstand wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, I called the police myself.

I then left the store and realized that the owner of the vehicle was sitting in front of the store, in a wheelchair. I engaged him in conversation only to then be met with the most complete set of ignorant utterances I've heard in a long time. "Freedom of Speech" he spewed. I told him nicely that his vehicle was violating the Free Speech laws and that his paint job was only an indication of his stupidity. "9/11 was committed by our government." "There was only 1 plane." I shook my head at the poor lad as it was obvious that he was out of his element with regards to constitutional law.

The Espionage Act of 1917 clearly prohibits such abuse of verbage. There is a large monetary fine for such acts, and a possible term of 10 years in prison.

Schenck v U.S. 249 U.S. 47 (1919) lays out the term, "clear and present danger" and Brandenburg v. Ohio also clearly lays out the definition of speech that is "likely to incite imminent lawless action...".

Whether or not you agree with the President, or you agree with U.S. presence on Iraq, freedom of speech is a gift given to us by people who have fought wars in order to preserve our constitutional liberties.

The only saying, "You Get More Bees With Honey" is applicable here. This ignorant fool may think he is making a point but ultimately his victory is one of ridicule and stupidity.

September 15, 2007 at 1:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dreamriver23 (anonymous) says...

I think his intent is to get attention. I guess it worked didn't it?

September 15, 2007 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

Setting his head inside the cavity of a used port-a-john might have been more of an attention getter, in my opinion.

September 15, 2007 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

inmate2007 (anonymous) says...

Somewhere I missed the punch line.

Did the PD ever show up? Did they do anything? Did Wall intercede and prevent them from charging the owner of the vehicle (you listed the offenses)? Is he the guest of the county or is he a free man?

Why is the perp in a wheelchair? Was he in Special Forces? Did he survive the trade towers collapse? Or could his medications be off?

Maybe he needs guidance and compassion, something I've seen you do for those you agree with.

September 15, 2007 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

pt22...do a little research and you will find that the freedom of speech does have some guidelines. The Espionage Act of 1917 is still on the books and covers what the violator had on his vehicle. It also might interest you to know that sedition is a punishable offense. I did my homework...I might suggest you do yours.

Inmate...I have plenty of compassion. This guy thinks one plane hit the trade towers and that America committed the heinous act against itself. When numerous independent structural engineers, etc have provided evidence to prove that no "explosives" were responsible for the fall of the trade towers, it amazes me that sensible people would still pontificate that America could kill 3000 of its own citizens.

The police were called, and did respond. I gave them my phone number and an officer did call me. He went to City Market and found the vehicle gone. I told the fellow in the chair that I had called the cops. I suppose if he thought he really had a freedom of speech issue, he would have stayed and faced the music. But no, he left like a coward.

Its my understanding from the officer that responded, that there have been numerous complaints about this guy's car.

The guy being in a wheelchair is not relevant to the argument of freedom of speech as protected under the constitution. If a war veteran wanted to protest the war I'd have no beef with it as long as it was does within the boundaries as set forth in the constitution and governing federal mandates. While I have no problem or qualms with someone using freedom of speech, I do hold great disdain for those who are irresponsible with that right.

Remember, I am a daughter of a vet, married to a vet, have a brother, father, uncle, grandfather who proudly served in the military. I respect and admire anyone who picks up a gun and defends this great nation. What I don't respect is someone who parks in a handicap spot, then places himself in a position where he is inviting hostile debate by the very nature of his presence.

September 15, 2007 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=966_11...

This was done with dignity

September 15, 2007 at 7:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

The guy went down 40 and parked his obscenity where it won't be noticed; beside the new injustice center. Now THAT's obscenity!

September 15, 2007 at 7:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=361_11...

look at it quick...mighty censor man will probably remove it soon.

September 15, 2007 at 7:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

inmate2007 (anonymous) says...

If you felt he was guilty of sedition (when was the last conviction?) why didn't you preform a citizens arrest instead of letting him spread that cancer. At least you could have followed him around with your cell phone like a taxi cab driver.

Since you didn't wait for the police to come are you as cowardly as he? Really we all have things to do and not waiting for the threat of police presence doesn't mean much. At best it sounds like the police took a report, which they do for any complaint real or not. Will the PD do anything? Even ID knows where the van is.

The point of the wheelchair (which you brought into the conversation) is does he have knowledge you don't or has his condition caused a medical reason for fantasy land, you relate to Postpartum but don't believe in roid rage? or painkiller dementia?

By the way my family, ex-girl friends, and assorted friends have/still do served our country, all honorable discharges, some have service related disability's. I choose not to serve but am grateful/respectful of their sacrifice, to wave the flag from behind them just seems superficial to me.

September 15, 2007 at 9:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

pt22: Wow, by your post are you insinuating that Ann Coulter not only writes great columns but also authored the Declaration, as well as federal laws.

I knew she was smart but you acknowledging it makes it even sweeter.

Inmate: Sedition hasn't been used in quite a bit, but it doesn't negate the existence of it. I couldn't wait for the police as I had a car full of groceries. Perhaps if I had seen the car before going into the grocery store I might have waited a bit longer. WHen I called dispatch I was told it could be a while as the cops were backed up with other calls. I gave them my number and they did return my call.

Thank you for the service your friends provide in the military .

September 16, 2007 at 7:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

Poor little PT, you have quite a odd view of things.

Wow, you're brilliant.

September 16, 2007 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seabirth (anonymous) says...

my favorite, going to the manager and asst manager to get them to call the police.... classic.

from someone who has numerous times complained about the number of "stupid" calls the pd deals with, this is a classic post.

but it's se..se..se..sedition.

September 17, 2007 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

seabirth:

Speaking about facts you obviosuly know nothing about.

1. I asked to speak with the manager;
2. The mgr was called;
3. The mgr did not come to front;
4. I was told to leave my name & no, which I did;
5. Instead of having them call the police, I called myself from the store;
6. I was told by dispatch that there were some calls backed up;
7. I told dispatch that when the officers had time for them to just give me a hollar;
8. I went home;
9. The police called about 20 minutes later and a report was taken, which I said I was sign if needed.

That okay with you Seabirth?

September 17, 2007 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

I called the police on that guy, too. (Red Chevy Blazer, right near the City Market front door area) Don't care about his message, but when the word "f*ck" is printed on the side of your vehicle in a parking lot where children can see it, I think that goes against the whole free speech argument.

September 17, 2007 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seabirth (anonymous) says...

did you not write that you wanted someone to call the police for you?

dundank ranted and rambled
"After 15 years coming to City Market, I found the vehicle to be offensive and asked that the police be called."

September 17, 2007 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

Or, we could just print the word on every street sign and doorway, and post it in every shop window, and it would lose its power in about two days.

Declare it "no longer obscene" and see what they can come up with to replace it. When children ask what it means, tell them it's a special word for the appreciation of love between a man and a woman.

I agree with the outrage over the obscenity, but it's only obscene because we allow it to be. Maybe it's time for f*** to come out of the closet like q**** and n***** already have.

September 17, 2007 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

Id:

Do you know what the F word means, or where it originated?

I was educated by parents who insisted that we read the dictionary. (We weren't permitted to watch the tele unless it was Walter Cronkite or Nat'l Geo specials) Talk about tough! Queer was, and remains a word that means odd. Too bad people insist on using the other, more derrogatory definition.

September 17, 2007 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

madmoores (anonymous) says...

id wrote:
"I agree with the outrage over the obscenity, but it's only obscene because we allow it to be. Maybe it's time for f*** to come out of the closet like q**** and n***** already have."

With all due respect, if those words are "out of the closet" like you state, why won't you type them out for all to see? You know the real answer to that question and I hope you were being candid with this post.
It is not urgent or a life threatening incident but it is obscene and should be dealt with accordingly.
People like this fellow represent the reason respect is slipping in this country.
Make him clean it up!!!

September 17, 2007 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

madmoores (anonymous) says...

"Do you know what the F word means, or where it originated?"

For the record:
Fokken:(around year 1500)to thrust...(unk. place of origin)
focka:(same time frame) to push or strike, (unk. place of origin).
Both terms also mean "to copulate with", hence today's meaning.

September 17, 2007 at 9:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

fish (anonymous) says...

I love it when people cry free speech until someone says or writes something they don't like. then they are the first ones to pitch a fit and call the cops.

September 17, 2007 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

People need to wake up and take a look around our country.
Things aren't all peachy. Next terror attack, the president has
positioned himself to declare marshall law, where he takes total
control

The congress and senate have been written out of the game.
Put options are due Sept 21st. Someone just made a 4 billion dollar bet the markets would crash by then. Why?

They did the exact same thing in American and United stock just before 9-11.

Bin Laden has been on the CIA payroll since he stood up to the Russians. Hell, we funded him.

The Federal Reserve is an for profit, private company that controls and owns the $9 trillion in debt our government has run up. The FR also prints our money, and controls interest rates. We pay them $400 billion a year to do this for US>

The Federal Reserve Act passed in 1913 on Dec 23rd, with three people present, and signed by the crook Wilson, put the United States into debt slavery.

Ask yourself one question.

Who would benifit from an event like 9-11. The terrorists, who loose hundreds of thousands when you anger a powerhouse like the USA, or people who make weapons and profit from warfare?

These people profit from both sides, because they lend the money to both sides. Whether or not one wins, the debt is still there.

Now, look up in the sky at the contrails.
Think about it. If they could buy up medicine patents, and invent diseases like West Nile and Bird Flu and Alzheimers and Cancer and Heart Disease, then spray us with chemicals that give us all those symptoms, they could suck up all the money through the hospitals.

No one would even know it. No one would even care.
Until is happens to you. And then, it may be too late.

September 18, 2007 at 5:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

madmoores:

It is my understanding the the F word meant

Fornication Under Command of the King. Either way, it has no place being on the side of a vehicle, in my opinion.

September 18, 2007 at 7:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mtroach (anonymous) says...

#'s, You are such a tattletale. Why not simply buy some shoe polish in city market, and cover up the profanity? Too busy to make a difference yourself.

September 18, 2007 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

llookhere (anonymous) says...

Stompk,

The people who make weapons and profit from warfare are the thousands of American working people who make average or below-average salaries working for defense contractors. Profit margins are a matter of contractual performance. If our government allowed us to procure weapons economically instead of shoving tons of regulatory and social constraints on the process, it would be a LOT cheaper.

You've been watching too many movies. If you could come and work in the system the way I did for many years, it would quickly become apparent to you that the main cost of weapons acquisition is the labor involved in the process and the fact that quantities are generally so small that the items are largely hand made. You don't tool up a factory to produce 400 of ANYTHING!

Frankly, Scarlet, most of the crimes you allege simply could not be pulled off by our government because the people who work in it are not that smart. The government does not pay well enough to hire top grads in science and engineering, and there's much more profit in the commercial sector than in defense. The people filling up the vending machines and grocery store shelves are the ones who make the money; consumer goods manufacturers. The markup on something like a fountain Coke is around 1000%

September 18, 2007 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

I love that idea Roach but here's the problem - I'd get arrested for a shoe polish stunt. I don't look good in orange, and it keeps me from getting in trouble.

September 18, 2007 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

llookhere (anonymous) says...

Oh, forgot about the F word comments . . .

Of course I know the derivation, etc. It was the first word I looked up when I got my American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language when I started college.

So, let's just embrace the concept and make it a not-so-dirty word anymore. Without the shock value, it means nothing.

September 18, 2007 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Hadleyburg_Press (anonymous) says...

Stompk,

I am a member of "they" and we are watching you....

September 18, 2007 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

You don't think I know you're watching, duh!!

Well, about 2 yrs ago, I took in a random homeless man, because I thought it was the Christian thing to do.

The homeless man, turned out to claim he was the last prophet of God, and claimed that our government is highly corrupted, and giving us the shaft, and..

So, after he stayed at my house for a month, I had lots of questions.

He told me that this info was the Spirit of Truth. Must look in the bible to understand this.

After two years of research, I'm convinced the homeless man knew what he was talking about.

If your one of them, God ain't very happy with you...

Meanwhile, I keep going to work and paying my taxes.

Watch away, watch away.

www.steamboatstuff.com.

Click on the Bill the Homeless man tab.

September 18, 2007 at 5:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Did you know that we pay $400 bil a year to the Federal Reserve, a privately owned company, for the interest on the 9 trillion dollar national debt, that they own.

All money in the US, funnels back the the Fed Reserve. They collect their interest off of it, and redistribute the remainder.

The US government, is allowed to appoint two members to the board. The rest of the board is from the international banking community.

Everytime they print a dollar, they issue bonds. Dollars buy bonds, which collect interest. Not a dime of income tax goes to any government program. All income tax, goes to paying the interest on the National Debt.

Reverse the Federal Reserve Act of 1913!

September 18, 2007 at 5:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Hadleyburg_Press (anonymous) says...

Stompk,
The homeless prophet was working for us, er "they". He was out of the department of disinformation. Did he happen to share any of his happy pills with you? We supplied him with those as well.

September 18, 2007 at 8:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

I have attacked no one personally.
I have only shared my true story.
As a long time local, I know there
will be those who know that I am
honest and sincere.

Things are not right folks. We are
like a car with the accelerator stuck.

We are slaves to debt, to taxes, and
we need to resolve our National Debt,
or our children will inherit that.

We also have a responsibility to
question authority. When things
aren't right, we deserve answers.

As a Desert Storm Vet, I feel it is
my patriotic duty to inform as many
people as I can about what I feel is
a grand scheme towards a one word
government, currency, and banking system.

These people, will live off of the sweat of
our labor, and off of the blood of those giving
their lives right now, in the Global War on Terror.

September 19, 2007 at 5:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Hadleyburg_Press (anonymous) says...

Stompk,
I apologize for having fun at your expense. I ment no malice. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. In fact, there are some issues that you have raised that have kernels of truth to them, such as general debt, that we as a nation would all be wise to think about. Thank you for your service in Desert Storm. It wasn't in vain.

September 19, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stompk (anonymous) says...

Not a problem. They really are watching.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but many things have come to my attention lately that raise plenty of red flags.

That is all.

September 19, 2007 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sickofitall (anonymous) says...

Dundalk, you need to get a hobby or a life. Just take the higher road next time.

September 23, 2007 at 6:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

twostroketerror (anonymous) says...

Its still amazing that 17%(Bushies) can still rankle the other 83%(humans). We must love sh*t, cause we can't resist what comes out of you *ssh*les.

September 26, 2007 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

2Stroke- I stopped being a "Bushie" long ago, but seeing a foul word printed on the side of a vehicle in a parking where children are around it...well, I wouldn't consider that "Bushie" vs. what you term "Human."

Do you personally have young children? If so, are you okay with them just saying "f*ck" whenever they please, even at the age of around 7 or 8yrs old? Do you routinely teach these words to young children that you are around?

Plus, why did you put an asterisk in your words? Do you not believe that none of the 83% "humans" work at the Pilot and would let the word stand on it's own merit? I'm thinking you don't believe your own hype.

A curse word is still offensive to more than just 17% of anyone, I'm willing to bet. If it weren't, wouldn't it be all over every television channel except FOX?

***I also say this as a person who uses curse words more often than not.***

September 26, 2007 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

There's a time and a place.

I stood behind some big ol' twenny-sumpin boy who was buying a carton of long necks, and he had "F*** YOU" tattoed on the back of his neck.

I'll bet his mother is proud.

Anyway, Bush is a lame duck.

Oh, hey, have you all heard about the Israeli air strike on Syria? Why isn't Syria squawking about it? Wouldn't it be something if the UN went in there and "found" the missing nuclear material from Iraq? That would really tilt the Democratic campaign, wouldn't it?

September 26, 2007 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Haven't watched today's news at all yet. Halo 3 has my attention for the next...not sure how long, actually. Using my own WMD on those Covenant f*cks!

Heh- Former Army with a mouth like a Sailor!

September 26, 2007 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Actually, I'm not finding any news anywhere, online at least, about Israel bombing Syria. Are you talking about 2003??

September 26, 2007 at 4:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dundalk (anonymous) says...

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/w...

Since our paper won't print her, I will.

September 26, 2007 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

Check CNN, for starters. www.cnn.com

September 27, 2007 at 6:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

ID- can you give a link within 10yds? CNN.com, MSNBC.com etc. have no news of Israel bombing Syria except for old 2003 stories. I watched the news last night at 10pm- no news about Israel bombing Syria. I have no clue what your are talking about.

September 27, 2007 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Hadleyburg_Press (anonymous) says...

Here is "public" story for you Kielbasa,

What is interesting is that we shared intel with the Israelis on this to correspond with a North Korean "diplomat's" visit. Diplomat in this case is a euphamism for a possible nuclear secret swapper...

Syria says Israel bombs territory Sep 6, 11:09 AM ET

DAMASCUS (Reuters) - Syria accused Israel of bombing its territory on Thursday and said it could respond to its neighbor's "aggression and treachery."
Israel refused all comment on the report, which said no casualties or damage were caused.
Oil prices were up more than $1.40 a barrel, in part on concerns over the reported attack.
After months in which talk of reviving long-stalled peace negotiations has been mixed with speculation on both sides that the other was preparing a surprise attack, Syrian officials hit out.
"This shows that Israel cannot give up aggression and treachery," Syrian Information Minister Mohsen Bilal told al-Jazeera television.
Another Syrian official said: "They dropped bombs on an empty area while our air defenses were firing heavily at them."
The Israeli military spokesman's office said in a statement: "It is not our custom to respond to these kinds of reports."
The office has typically commented on such reports, but a security source said the government had imposed a news blackout on the issue. A spokeswoman for Prime Minister Ehud Olmert also said there would be no comment beyond the military statement.
The White House also declined comment.
It is over a year since Syrian guns opened fire on Israeli aircraft and Israeli jets last struck in 2003 across a border that remains tense but largely quiet 34 years after the last war between the two neighbors ended in an edgy ceasefire.
Military analysts said Israel has conducted reconnaissance flights over Syria to probe its defenses.
Turkish and Israeli officials denied a report from an Israeli military source that the Israeli air force had trained in friendly Turkey as recently as this week. The last exercises had concluded last month, officials in Ankara said.
The Syrian official news agency SANA said Israeli aircraft "infiltrated Syrian airspace through the northern border coming from the direction of the Mediterranean and headed towards northeastern territory, breaking the sound barrier."
Tensions between the two neighbors have been high in recent months. Some Israeli intelligence officials have suggested President Bashar al-Assad's administration might be ready to try to take by force parts of the Golan Heights, which Israel captured in the war of 1967 and held on to in fighting in 1973.
Some Israeli military officials have expressed alarm at what they say are reinforcements of Syrian positions and arms purchases. But Olmert has spoken out against alarmist comments.
Syria last said it fired at Israeli warplanes in June 2006, when Israeli aircraft buzzed a Syrian presidential palace.

September 27, 2007 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Hadleyburg_Press (anonymous) says...

Follow up for you Kielbasa,

Former official: North Korea aids Syria By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer
Wed Sep 26, 12:39 PM ET

WASHINGTON - The target of Israel's air strike in northeastern Syria earlier this month was either a joint nuclear or missile facility with North Korea, John R. Bolton, a former senior Bush administration official, said Wednesday.

"I am definitely hearing it from U.S. and Israeli sources," Bolton said in an interview. "The information is very closely held."

The strike raised tensions in the region, but has not stopped the Bush administration from including Syria in its plans for Mideast peacemaking or for six-nation talks on North Korea's nuclear program. Those discussions are due to commence Thursday in Beijing.

"What the Israelis struck I cannot say; whether a nuclear or missile facility is not clear," Bolton said from his office at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank.

He offered the possibility that it was a joint research venture or simply a North Korea facility located in Syria. "Any of these options is enough to show proliferation by the North Koreans and that is very dangerous," Bolton said.

"I don't think the Israelis would have taken the risk unless it was a very high-value target," Bolton said.

Neither American nor Israeli officials are saying whether the target was a nuclear or missile facility and many don't know, Bolton said.

The former State Department official and U.S. ambassador to the United
Bolton said it would be wrong, however, to remove North Korea from the U.S. list of countries that support terror and therefore are ineligible for various benefits.

"If they are cooperating with either Syria or Iran, such as on ballistic missile stuff, they should stay on (the list) with Syria and Iran," he said.

Bolton, as undersecretary of state for arms control and international security in the Bush administration, guided U.S. programs designed to try to halt the spread of dangerous weapons and technology. North Korea, Iran and Syria were among his primary targets.

September 27, 2007 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Hadleyburg_Press (anonymous) says...

Kielbasa,
Now going with IDsp04' s thinking you can understand his concern. Theory: Saddam's weapons capabilities moved to Syria, then Syria invites (pays) the North Koreans for technology to make those weapons more sophisticated (nuclear). Those advanced weapons find their way to Hezbollah / Iran. This is just theory, but this is how these things occur in this world. So, I am damn glad that we are in that area to ensure that a) these systems remain degraded and b) that they won't find there way into operational capabilities and c) that they don't threaten your a** and mine. That is if they exist or not. Are you comfortable guessing and planning that they don't? How about if you were an Israeli or Saudi?

September 27, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

Hadley- Thanks for the update. I was wondering where this was all coming from, since no news sites were reporting anything had happened at all.

As to theories, well...a theory is a theory until proven. So far, no "smoking gun" is laying about. I was told 2 decades ago that Reagan would end up pushing the button to blow up USSR and vice versa. Nothing ever came of that, either. USSR was our "axis of evil" back then.

I'm no more worried about it now than back then. Bush and Far-Righties have kept talking about Liberals pushing thru the politics of fear, and then keep saying to be afraid that the Liberals take over, the terrorists win. That sounds like politics of fear to me.

So, in answer to your question: Yes, I'm currently comfortable. I'm not comfortable with Israel possibly launching an attack on Syria and not coming clean with it, though. To me, that's no better than Syria possibly having weapons and lying about it. Remember: a lie is a lie, except for those that agree with the lie.

Again: show true proof and not just theories, especially since too many theories haven't panned out about the Middle East during this administration.

September 27, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

Kielbasa,

It has recently come to light, more than 60 years later, that the U. S. plan to invade Japan included blasting our way in with atomic bombs to suppress Japanese resistance on the ground. That means we had "tens" of atomic bombs; not just Little Boy and Fat Man that you heard about all these years. That means we were prepared to incinerate the Japanese population waiting to defend their homeland on the occupied plains around the plausible landing sites. This was going to be President Truman's answer to the risk of losing 1,000,000 American troops in a conventional invasion.

50 or 60 years from now, the classified information that would clear up your questions may be released.

It's not so much "what" they know, as "how" they know it. It's called "methods and sources" in the intelligence community. If the information you need to be convinced was released, it could tie the leak back a source and result in the liquidation of the source. That's how it works in the world of espionage.

There are things I know from my military experience that I simply cannot tell anyone, because to do so would (1) get me put in jail and (2) reveal vital national security information. Occasionally I have seen things on TV or in news reports that make me grin, but I can't tell anybody why. That's just how it goes.

The fact that CNN doesn't have the details warms my heart. It means there are still honest Americans around keeping long-held secrets from our enemies.

My theory is that the truth about Iraqi WMDs will come to light before November 2008. It will happen that way to discredit the ultimate Democratic candidate and the whole party that has made such a political issue out of the WMDs.

September 27, 2007 at 1:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

id04sp (anonymous) says...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/wor...

This is one of the links SBVOR posted on the other site. It's from the New York Times.

September 27, 2007 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

So it comes to light that others do the exact same things that the U.S. does, and that should be a surprise or I should be frightened of it all? Not me. As for methods and sources, I know all about that. Remember: I come from a long line of military officers in my family, and have my own time in as a DAT. I'm versed well enough in methodology. I use it on this forum all the time. I also have my sources, so I've been able to figure out who's behind what forum handle with quite a few posters, even if I never come out and say who they are. (Always nice to have a trump card.) Detective work is nothing new to me, and I'm an avid Cryptoquip puzzle solver. (And yet, the last word in Jumble usually messes me up. Go figure!)

It may very well be that Syria did get Iraq's WMD, but I say again: considering (and I will go as far to say) most intel we seem to be getting over the last decade has been woefully inaccurate, for whatever reason. I have yet to be given cause to believe that's changed.

Right now, show me true proof to back it up, and I'll believe it. Until then, my days from here forward will be just like the ones behind- worrying about what affects me the most.

September 27, 2007 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lark (anonymous) says...

"We may yet learn that Iraqi materials were among what was destroyed in this raid."

Sure - and we may yet learn that aliens really landed at Roswell in 1947. But I'm not holding my breath for either to pan out.

You can swallow the fear pill, sb, but it's made the rest of us sick, and we're not falling for it again. And again. And again.

September 27, 2007 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lusciojo (anonymous) says...

There is a documentary that I saw recently. It is titled "F***". It is an hour and a half debate on the word and its usage. Check it out. Other peoples opinions on the matter won't hurt. Its funny, I can't even reference the word and I am citing a source. Interesting.

September 27, 2007 at 11:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

We may yet learn that the Easter Bunny isn't truly a bunny but the beast from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" (" 'e's gote teeth like...ahnd 'e joomps...I'm warrrrrrrrrrrnin' youuuu!!!") and that Santa Claus is actually Jewish, too. I'm sure we'll get that about the same time as we find those pesky Iraqi WMD.

September 28, 2007 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kielbasa (Matthew Stoddard) says...

AAAAnnnnnnddd, if they were smart (LOL!!!) they look for those WMD in Turkey! That's evidently where a few of the almost 200,000 missing weapons the U.S. provided Iraq over the last few years seems to have turned up.

Noooooo, our intel is just fine, eh?

September 28, 2007 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )